Yeah I don't think they should just let it go unhandled. What they should have done IMO is...
1. Release an emergency temporary patch that restricts anyone under 45 from going to Illum while they work out the issues.
2. Figure out a way to resolve the problem permanently, whether it's putting mobs by the chest, decreasing spawn rates, or just making them unlootable by < 50's.
3. Release a patch to resolve the issue and then allow under 45's to go to Illum again.
The only situation I could see where this kind of warn/ban behavior is justified is if the design flaw is SO damaging that it will literally destroy the game before a patch could be released. But I somehow doubt that is the case with this.
And even in that case, BW should release a general statement explaining the problem and telling players to not do the troublesome behavior while they fix it or they risk being banned. I mean, it's not like the information won't get out there anyway.
What they did is the typical response to such an issue. They find people doing it, evaluate it, decide if it can f up the economy/ balance, issue warnings, (they didn't ban people for this, "yet", according to them anyway). Then Ban repeated offenders. IF you get warned first and still do it, yeah you should be banned.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If they give players rewards for reporting game breaking bugs/exploits, then wouldn't it be to their advantage to make this fact known ?
Nothing in the universe develops more foam around a player's mouth than another player getting something he didn't.
Like most account transactions, "we don't discuss with other players" policy is still holds, and for the same reasons.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
But if all they were doing was travelling to a zone that wasn't necessarily meant for them, but still accessible to them based on game design decisions, and looting chests guarded by NPCs that are friendly to them...
Sorry but that's just poor game design. It's a pretty obvious issue that should have been caught by the developers back in the alpha stages of development. I agree that abusing such an oversight isn't good, but I hardly think it warrants banning players. Bioware should have instead agreed that they screwed up and disabled said loot containers for the time being and actually fix their screw up by preventing players from looting containers associated to allied faction NPCs.
Exactly, EVEN Cryptic and Blizzard when things like this happened went through on those accounts and removed the items in question en masse and then patched the game so it couldn't happen anymore, banning is just going to alienate what few players they have left.
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
What we're arguing is that we think it's stupid to ban people for things like this...
I think we could also argue if those people are stupid, liers or hypocrites.
Saying they did not know it was an exploit is absurd.
The fact that they were rushing to high lvl areas with low lvl characters, or just looting same chest for hours over and over implies they were perfectly aware of what they are doing and why. Their intentions were clear - to obtain unusually, extremely high rewards for their level and general game play.
If you do it once or twice, fine. Doing it repeatedly, intentionally over and over is very definition of exploitation.
I know this point has been brought up many, many times. But how this is any different from farming mobs with a good loot drop? Aren't you "exploiting" the mobs at that point?
If I find a group of mobs clustered together that I can AoE to get great exp/loot...then am I exploiting if I grind them over and over again?
What this all boils down to, is a "play the game our way, or don't play at all" philosophy. And THAT is what people don't like.
What we're arguing is that we think it's stupid to ban people for things like this...
I think we could also argue if those people are stupid, liers or hypocrites.
Saying they did not know it was an exploit is absurd.
The fact that they were rushing to high lvl areas with low lvl characters, or just looting same chest for hours over and over implies they were perfectly aware of what they are doing and why. Their intentions were clear - to obtain unusually, extremely high rewards for their level and general game play.
If you do it once or twice, fine. Doing it repeatedly, intentionally over and over is very definition of exploitation.
That's the thing though, were they really exploiting?
Said players weren't exploiting to be able to get to the zone well before their level should be there, the game allows them to go there without any restriction. They weren't glitching the NPCs guarding them so the NPCs would ignore them... the NPCs were coded to ignore allied faction NPCs. They weren't going through some fringe scenario of actions to be able to loot said containers, they were simply opening them because there's no restrictions.
Honestly I see what they did as being more in a grey area. Sure it's not necessarily good what they were doing, but it's a pretty glaringly obvious hole in design that the developers should have caught.
What we're arguing is that we think it's stupid to ban people for things like this...not that BW is not within their right to do stupid stuff if they want.
Dunno Cres, what's the alternative? A world where the exploits are known, freely passed between players, and abused at will? One guy was smart and figured out how, grandfather him as the "owner" of this exploit? Or worse, allow free abused by specific players tactitly approved by the staff?
The problem is in an electronic world, no exploit 'discovered' ever remains 'contained' for very long.
It's ok to stand up for the little guy, someone should. But you can't just allow abuse to continue unabated, or your "living world" is as dead as a stone.
How about the game dev's, the ones that made the game and therfore the bugs,exploits, maybe reward paying players for finding and reporting?
Say 1 week free game time per bug, 1 month per large exploit?
You know work with their customers?
You mean Lucas Arts actually listen to someone instead of doing whatever they want whenever they want to do it?! How dare you sir make such a suggestion! HAVE AT THEEE.
Oh and bioware working with their customers is kinda funny too considering both ARE corporations.
Originally posted by Creslin321 Yeah I don't think they should just let it go unhandled. What they should have done IMO is... 1. Release an emergency temporary patch that restricts anyone under 45 from going to Illum while they work out the issues. 2. Figure out a way to resolve the problem permanently, whether it's putting mobs by the chest, decreasing spawn rates, or just making them unlootable by < 50's. 3. Release a patch to resolve the issue and then allow under 45's to go to Illum again. The only situation I could see where this kind of warn/ban behavior is justified is if the design flaw is SO damaging that it will literally destroy the game before a patch could be released. But I somehow doubt that is the case with this. And even in that case, BW should release a general statement explaining the problem and telling players to not do the troublesome behavior while they fix it or they risk being banned. I mean, it's not like the information won't get out there anyway.
1) Why would you lock out a feature from all other players just because there is few exploiters? Most people are not exploiting the container, do not interfere with their game play.
Also, your proposal look easy but it may turn out easily as huge problem on code level.
Yeah I don't think they should just let it go unhandled. What they should have done IMO is...
1. Release an emergency temporary patch that restricts anyone under 45 from going to Illum while they work out the issues.
2. Figure out a way to resolve the problem permanently, whether it's putting mobs by the chest, decreasing spawn rates, or just making them unlootable by < 50's.
3. Release a patch to resolve the issue and then allow under 45's to go to Illum again.
The only situation I could see where this kind of warn/ban behavior is justified is if the design flaw is SO damaging that it will literally destroy the game before a patch could be released. But I somehow doubt that is the case with this.
And even in that case, BW should release a general statement explaining the problem and telling players to not do the troublesome behavior while they fix it or they risk being banned. I mean, it's not like the information won't get out there anyway.
1) Why would you lock out a feature from all other players just because there is few exploiters? Most people are not exploiting the container, do not interfere with their game play.
Also, your proposal look easy but it may turn out easily as huge problem on code level.
2) They will, just it does not happen overnight.
If writing a few lines of code that looks something like
if (Player.Level >= 45) {
AllowAccessToIllum;
}
else { DenyAccess; }
is a "huge problem." Then SWTOR is not well designed. An MMORPG has to be designed to be able to be patched/modified easily. If it's not, then it's a major problem.
Originally posted by Creslin321 I know this point has been brought up many, many times. But how this is any different from farming mobs with a good loot drop?
How is it different? Do tell if you decided to loot the containers over mob farming ;-)
See, it isn't that difficult...
It is just a matter of common sense and this discussions actually serve only one purpose - finding ways to get around.
Ok, so I didn't read all 9 pages. I apologise in advance if this was covered:
So to me sounds like easy win for PVP'ers. Let's organize something like Hulkageddon from Eve and get PVP groups actively looking for these guys and kill them. Make a contest out of it. I'm glad bioware is doing something to combat them, but just as the farmers can say that "there's an ingame mechanic so we're using it" well.. on llum, we have a mechanic to combat it too, it's called kicking your butt :P
Ok look, it is a really simple answer to this entire thread. if you do something in a game (or in real life for that matter) that you CAN but know you shouldn't, you will pay fro doing it. In real life the payment is more extreme since they can't BAN you. And lets be 100% clear here, if you do somethign in a game, and the company that runs the game feels you shouldn't have, it doesn't matter what you think. They will do what they feel is the RIGHT thing to do to maintain thier product. And if you feel you have been done wrong, oh well, so sad, too f'in bad.
Cry all you want, say it was there so I should be able to, doesn't make a bit of difference. If you do something in a game that you know is NOT what was intended to be the way it should be done. Even if you CAN, it doesn't mean you should or even that you have the right to do so.
But you are all right here, you can go right ahead and do it anyway, just stop biatching about the reward you reap for doing so. You do it, you deserve every action the company gives you. Time to step up and take responsability for your own actions, just like in real life. Part of being an adult.
So you basically think that the game admins are infallible and any decision they make on what is or is not allowed should never be challenged.
Well I disagree. I've played MMORPGs for a while, and I've seen quite a few boneheaded decisions of what is or isn't "allowed." A few examples are:
1. Shooting a MOB from across a river in EQ was bannable for "exploiting the pathing." This is ridiculous, you are basically being banned for using the terrain to your advantage.
2. "Roof camping" used to be a big thing in open world PvP games. This is where a ranged character would get on top of a roof and shoot people below that had a difficult time getting to them. Once again, this is just using the terrain to your advantage. Unless the roof is inaccessible unless you exploit a bug, it shouldn't be bannable.
3. And now, "excessive farming" in SWTOR. The chests are there. They are there to be looted. If someone discovers that repeatedly looting them is profitable, then why is this bannable? Where do you draw the line?
And that's the problem here, you basically just assume that BW's decision of what is or isn't allowed cannot be argued. And well, I disagree. If BW spawns chests too quickly because of their game design, then it's not the players' fault if they get rich off of it. BW just needs to fix the problem, and there are SOOOO many fixes they could do that have been mentioned in this thread.
I mean, how would you feel if BW banned folks that were "exploiting" slicing before the nerf by constantly sending out all 5 companions on slicing missions? I really don't see this situation as any different.
Abusing game mechanics is not allowed. What part of that don't you understand? You probably think rigging lotto or insider trading is just fine, even though there are laws against it, it was built in a way where it could be done, therefore it should be allowed.
I think its amusing how many people are bashing the devs for having a bug/exploit in their game. If programming is so easy to grasp for you, go ahead and try it.
Yes, Betas catch bugs and exploits, but its entirely unrealistic to expect them to catch EVERY single bug and/or exploit.
It was there, the players did it. And did it. And did it. And did it. And some botted it. And some upset the server's economies by doing it.
Its the same thing as players complaining about being warned/banned for trying to corner the economy on a single item. They do it by buying all of that item off the market and repost them at a profit. Yes, it's allowed by game functions, but its asshattery and hard to prevent short of altering the entire inplace market systems in a themepark MMO.
The players exploiting the boxes were made an example of. This isn't the first time an MMORPG company has done this and won't be the last time, so PLEASE stop being so damn naive about it.
If something in the game seems too good to be true, for example, being able to farm a level 50 chest every 10 minutes for 4000-5000 credits a pop, when you are only a level 14 character, I would suggest that you just don't do it, or you might get your arms ripped off ... ask any bot who has played against a Wookie
Why? They are doing something which the game allows them to do which imo is a ban for the devs rather than the players. Sounds to me that Bioware is trying to push the blame on the players for what is clearly either poor game design or an oversight on their part.
But my point of view comes from playing sandbox games and I often try to go away from the linear path which Themeparks want you to take.
Never will understand this view by some people. Life allows me the posability to shoot you in the head with my Sig, should I do it just because I can? And if I do, should I believe the cops shouldn't arrest me for killing your dumb ass? Should I expect them to not push the blame on me for your murder since the game of life was poorly designed.
Oh and yeah, just to point out, real life is a sandbox game, so dont use that as an excuse either.
You should know better, level 15 taking in 5000 credits ever 10 minutes without any effort, when you KNOW everyone else at level 15 is making 5000 credits every 3 hours. YOU SHOULD KNOW BETTER! Did your momma never spank you when you were a kid? If not maybe she should have, obviously you never learned about doing whats right and not doing what you know isn't. (and no, this is not a personal attack against this particular poster, he just gave the example and I am responding to everyone who has this attitude towards exploiting a game.)
I agree with exception....you get caught as a criminal in real life you pay in real life. (hopefully). I propose if players do thsi stuff in game then punish them in game. Sure it's be simple enough to lock the boxes by level. They could also..add more mobs around...in this case...the chests. All well and good. Instead..though...why not warn. If infracted upon again...take away any gains from the spoils and incur artifcial prison time resulting in becoming rusty (skill/level loss). So to speak. Take away levels from the character and any abilties,skill tree points and loot unusuable at their resulting level. The worse the infraction the more levels lost..including legacy levels. Repeat offenders lose more levels than the time before. If the offender reaches 1st level then ban the account for a period of time. If they want to keep paying only to go back to level one again then they're idiots. I know this wont happen and is probably too much of a pain to manage.but just an idea.
Originally posted by DarkPony I wonder how they look at solo farming flashpoints. I did Boarding Party solo yesterday at level 41 and my oh my, the farming potential was clear to see.
Well, it did state: "...action was taken against a number of accounts for what's commonly known as 'gold farming' - or in our case, credit farming. These accounts were found to be exploiting the game in a variety of ways to maximize their credits in order to sell them to other players..."
The first part could, in my reading refer to any gold farming, the second part however narrows it down to real-mony-trading. How else would you sell in-game currency?
Originally posted by Kaocan
...Life allows me the posability to shoot you in the head with my Sig, should I do it just because I can? ...
It's completely different, nobody gets hurt from looting chest
You should know better, level 15 taking in 5000 credits ever 10 minutes without any effort, when you KNOW everyone else at level 15 is making 5000 credits every 3 hours.
Yes, and you will decline in real life when someone offers you a small job and pays you ten times the regular fees
Originally posted by Kaocan ... if you do something in a game (or in real life for that matter) that you CAN but know you shouldn't, you will pay fro doing it. In real life
There are rules and laws and every-day common sense in real life, like not opening chests everywhere and take the content that you know is not lawfully yours, and not killing everyone with the wrong coloured glow.
In just about all MMO's, MMORPG and RPG's you're supposed to make your character open all chests and containers (and pick their lock or bash them) and get what's in them. Exploring new territory and taking risks doing so is also quite common in them.
But now years of common practice are thrown overboard and you're supposed to know that you can loot some, but not other chests?
... They will do what they feel is the RIGHT thing to do to maintain thier product. And if you feel you have been done wrong, oh well, so sad, too f'in bad.
Sounds just about how asian F2P mmo's are run, don't fix problems, simply ban players. It's not helping me to want to spend money on a game...
They should just fix the chests, with nearly 2 million subs you should think thay have some money to spend.
And why are there chests with high-value loot in a PvP area anyway?
Originally posted by Kaocan
1) Shooting a mob which has no way, by design of the pathing in the game, to hit you back.
It's how the area was designed, if you don't want pathing issues to prevent mob's from fighting back, then design your area's so that there are no pathing issues.
2) Using a position like a roof, which is not easily accessable to everyone in PvP,
Again, the devs designed the area's including such advantages. If these advantages were unintended they should fix the area, not the players.
...to put your oponent in a position they can not harm you
Sorta like a stunlock, or knocklock? You know, using every advantage you can get over your opponent is part of PvP. It's the developer's job to remove unfair advantages, not to remove players.
Originally posted by Kaocan ... it doesn't matter if you or I have a difference of opinion. The ONLY thing that matters is what the game company deems an exploit and what they dont. ...
I think it's a good thing you don't develop or sell games, or even market them, because you are doing an awfully poor job on it.
... games have a set of rules which you must follow to play the game fairly. You follow the rules you do just fine, you dont, well you dont play the game for long.
If the game-rules make it difficult for a melee type to get on the roof from which a ranged char is shooting at them then that is what the rules are. Should the melee char stop beating the ranged char when they get a penalty to their attacks in melee range?
What we're arguing is that we think it's stupid to ban people for things like this...not that BW is not within their right to do stupid stuff if they want.
Dunno Cres, what's the alternative? A world where the exploits are known, freely passed between players, and abused at will? One guy was smart and figured out how, grandfather him as the "owner" of this exploit? Or worse, allow free abused by specific players tactitly approved by the staff?
The problem is in an electronic world, no exploit 'discovered' ever remains 'contained' for very long.
It's ok to stand up for the little guy, someone should. But you can't just allow abuse to continue unabated, or your "living world" is as dead as a stone.
How about the game dev's, the ones that made the game and therfore the bugs,exploits, maybe reward paying players for finding and reporting?
Say 1 week free game time per bug, 1 month per large exploit?
You know work with their customers?
You mean Lucas Arts actually listen to someone instead of doing whatever they want whenever they want to do it?! How dare you sir make such a suggestion! HAVE AT THEEE.
Oh and bioware working with their customers is kinda funny too considering both ARE corporations.
Heh ya it is a stretch:P
But could you imagine the amount of players that would love this? They would have a complete list of bugs, and or exploits inside a week:P
Then this whole drama would be solved no one would be banned. Sounds like a win win to me:)
If the game-rules make it difficult for a melee type to get on the roof from which a ranged char is shooting at them then that is what the rules are. Should the melee char stop beating the ranged char when they get a penalty to their attacks in melee range?
I remember WoW banning ranged players for sniping people from the tops of buildings in Classic Good times.
They banned them until there was a mechanical fix.
The only bannable offense I see here is botting. Farming chests should not be bannable, so long as you're not using some kind of BUG exploit to cause duping or very fast chest spawning.
The article just seems like it assumes these guys were botting in the title. But then it says these guys were farming chests in a high level area. Farming is fine...botting with a macro or third party program is not.
So if BW banned them for botting...okay. If BW banned them for farming...not okay.
I'm with you on this.
Botting, not ok obviously.
Looting something over and over again because you can, thats not the players fault. There is absolutely wrong with that.
Unless BW cleverly reworded there TOS to say "We can ban you for whatever we dream up"....then I am on the players side, and this is bullshit.
They also made it so that it all could happen. So it is their jobs to fix it as well. This crazy expectation that people should report easy ways to get whatever, is just that, crazy.
Simple, they found it, they are fixing it, they said stop, thats all you need to know. Dont like that, tough shit dude. Oh and the next time they catch a small group of people doing some workaround that wasn't intended ot be there, they will do the same thing then. And if you dont like that, stop playing the game.
Sorry, you're wrong there bud. It is their responsibility to fix bugs before they release a game, that's the whole point of a closed AND open beta. They have pleanty of time. Now instead of fixing the issue they are alienating what few players they have at launch because THEY made the mistake. These so called Devs might be good at story and voice overs but apparently none of them have EVER played a game in their entire life because these issues they are having should have definitely been caught by their closed team before open beta. Also, you personally don't have access to every bug report in the closed and open beta so seriously quit acting like you know everything about these bugs and how they were handled.
hmmm, let me quote you here first, its an amazing statement you made...I want to make sure it is preserved.
"they are alienating what few players they have at launch"
Now that we have that out of the way lets talk how game bugs are identified shall we. First off, the correction happens BEFORE Beta testing, in Alpha testers. Closed Beta are usually added much later, normally when the content is being fished out. Now as for Beta testers lets move on to the worst assumption in the history of assumptions in these games, the one where Open Beta people actually believe they have any word in anything that is in need of being fixed before launch.
By the time the game reaches the open beta mark, the only issues they want to hear from you are massive game breaking issues which will stop the luanch all together, and stress tests. Behind the scenes, while you are in Open Beta, the Alhpa and Closed Beta people are usually still doing what they were before you started playing. They are still reporting bugs on the official CLOSED tester forums. These are the ones the devs look at prior to launch for bug finds and fixes, and most of the time for suggestions too. Open Beta forums are a joke, they are there to let you think you matter, but you dont, not unless half a million of you scream all together about the same thing really loud.
Now, lets try a small think called thinking here for a moment shall we, just a small one, I dont want to stress you out on it too much. Lets ask a simple question, how many games can you name in the MMORPG genre which have been released in the past 15 years which have been 100% bug free at launch? I mean if you're going to hold Bioware to this standard of yours, at least there should be a standard to hold them to dont you think? I mean we can't rightly hold them to an ideal, something we BELIEVE the standard should be, but which noone in the history of the genre has ever been able to achieve. I guess if I was as arrogant as you, I might believe my opinion was that important to the world, but alas I am not.
And lets look at your other belief you have there, the one where you think the developers of this game obviously have never played any game in thier lives. I'm not sure I know where you get that assumption, but I would think a like assumption of you having never developed a game can just as easily be made. Neither one is relivant to the issue in this thread though, so no need to discuss them.
I stand by my earlier statement though, they made the game, they set the rules, you follow the rules or quit playing the game. Wait...or you could go apply for a job at Bioware where you could biatch about your concerns in a team meeting on your first day of work and subsiquently get fired on your second day of work. It could happen you know, at least then you could say you actually worked for a game developing company.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Abusing game mechanics is not allowed. What part of that don't you understand? You probably think rigging lotto or insider trading is just fine, even though there are laws against it, it was built in a way where it could be done, therefore it should be allowed.
That logic is so utterly wrong.
Yeah because rigging the lotto or insider trading are really similar to repeatedly looting a chest that is there to be looted. Right.
I think it's ridiculous how so many people try to act like "you must have no morals!" if you defend a player for looting a chest in a game repeatedly. If I'm playing a game, and I find a legitimate in-game way to get an advantage, you know what? I'm going to take it.
I'm going to be happy that I found something cool too and probably tell my friends. Maybe I'm going to hell for this, not sure.
Note that I will NOT take the advantage if it is obviously the result of a bug exploit like duping. But if it's just a group of mobs that are awesome exp, or a chest that keeps spawning with good stuff (in a reasonable amount of time), then I'm going to take it.
Abusing game mechanics is not allowed. What part of that don't you understand? You probably think rigging lotto or insider trading is just fine, even though there are laws against it, it was built in a way where it could be done, therefore it should be allowed.
That logic is so utterly wrong.
Yeah because rigging the lotto or insider trading are really similar to repeatedly looting a chest that is there to be looted. Right.
I think it's ridiculous how so many people try to act like "you must have no morals!" if you defend a player for looting a chest in a game repeatedly. If I'm playing a game, and I find a legitimate in-game way to get an advantage, you know what? I'm going to take it.
I'm going to be happy that I found something cool too and probably tell my friends. Maybe I'm going to hell for this, not sure.
Note that I will NOT take the advantage if it is obviously the result of a bug exploit like duping. But if it's just a group of mobs that are awesome exp, or a chest that keeps spawning with good stuff (in a reasonable amount of time), then I'm going to take it.
Yeah this is stupid... i agree with banning the gold sellars but not the oppurtunistic players who where just looting where looting to be had.... OK lets stomp some arguments.
1. They weren't banned though... cant you read omg so stupid!
They where suspended.... which is a nicer way of saying temporarily banned... thank you for the free money for the time your not gonna get ot play. I can call a turd an "oblong waste pellet" but its still a turd
2. They should know better they where getting something for nothing!
No they werent... it took ten minutes for that chest to spawn... so it cost them 10 minutes of time. Even if the profits where outside their level. What is to stop them from just working on nothing but crafting and being level 14 with maxed out gathering except they sell all the high level items they get for 4-5k per item.... would that be exploiting...?????
No... Why not? They are still getting somethnig for nothing... they are still dealing with items way outside their level and making more money then they should be. So why not ban them... or wait ... im sorry.. "susupend" them for that. All they are doing is standing their making money on the space station... in no danger... just like these people were.
Here's what im gonna do though... im gonna sell you a sandwich.. . and you better fucking eat it like a sandwich... if i catch you doing anything stupid like taking the meat off and eating first or flipping it over so the cheese is on the bottom then im kicking you the fuck out of my resturant and not givning you your money back... you should have read the fine print on the menu that said I could do that if I didnt like the way you where eating your sandwich
Yeah this is stupid... i agree with banning the gold sellars but not the oppurtunistic players who where just looting where looting to be had.... OK lets stomp some arguments.
1. They weren't banned though... cant you read omg so stupid!
They where suspended.... which is a nicer way of saying temporarily banned... thank you for the free money for the time your not gonna get ot play. I can call a turd an "oblong waste pellet" but its still a turd
2. They should know better they where getting something for nothing!
No they werent... it took ten minutes for that chest to spawn... so it cost them 10 minutes of time. Even if the profits where outside their level. What is to stop them from just working on nothing but crafting and being level 14 with maxed out gathering except they sell all the high level items they get for 4-5k per item.... would that be exploiting...?????
No... Why not? They are still getting somethnig for nothing... they are still dealing with items way outside their level and making more money then they should be. So why not ban them... or wait ... im sorry.. "susupend" them for that. All they are doing is standing their making money on the space station... in no danger... just like these people were.
Here's what im gonna do though... im gonna sell you a sandwich.. . and you better fucking eat it like a sandwich... if i catch you doing anything stupid like taking the meat off and eating first or flipping it over so the cheese is on the bottom then im kicking you the fuck out of my resturant and not givning you your money back... you should have read the fine print on the menu that said I could do that if I didnt like the way you where eating your sandwich
I LOL'd at this post, just for the idea of someone looking over their shoulder to make sure no one is looking, taking a slice of ham out of their sandwich, then being tackled by store security.
Comments
What they did is the typical response to such an issue. They find people doing it, evaluate it, decide if it can f up the economy/ balance, issue warnings, (they didn't ban people for this, "yet", according to them anyway). Then Ban repeated offenders. IF you get warned first and still do it, yeah you should be banned.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Nothing in the universe develops more foam around a player's mouth than another player getting something he didn't.
Like most account transactions, "we don't discuss with other players" policy is still holds, and for the same reasons.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Exactly, EVEN Cryptic and Blizzard when things like this happened went through on those accounts and removed the items in question en masse and then patched the game so it couldn't happen anymore, banning is just going to alienate what few players they have left.
They use a heat map.
Epic Music: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vAigCvelkhQ&list=PLo9FRw1AkDuQLEz7Gvvaz3ideB2NpFtT1
https://archive.org/details/softwarelibrary_msdos?&sort=-downloads&page=1
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
I know this point has been brought up many, many times. But how this is any different from farming mobs with a good loot drop? Aren't you "exploiting" the mobs at that point?
If I find a group of mobs clustered together that I can AoE to get great exp/loot...then am I exploiting if I grind them over and over again?
What this all boils down to, is a "play the game our way, or don't play at all" philosophy. And THAT is what people don't like.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
That's the thing though, were they really exploiting?
Said players weren't exploiting to be able to get to the zone well before their level should be there, the game allows them to go there without any restriction. They weren't glitching the NPCs guarding them so the NPCs would ignore them... the NPCs were coded to ignore allied faction NPCs. They weren't going through some fringe scenario of actions to be able to loot said containers, they were simply opening them because there's no restrictions.
Honestly I see what they did as being more in a grey area. Sure it's not necessarily good what they were doing, but it's a pretty glaringly obvious hole in design that the developers should have caught.
You mean Lucas Arts actually listen to someone instead of doing whatever they want whenever they want to do it?! How dare you sir make such a suggestion! HAVE AT THEEE.
Oh and bioware working with their customers is kinda funny too considering both ARE corporations.
1) Why would you lock out a feature from all other players just because there is few exploiters? Most people are not exploiting the container, do not interfere with their game play.
Also, your proposal look easy but it may turn out easily as huge problem on code level.
2) They will, just it does not happen overnight.
If writing a few lines of code that looks something like
if (Player.Level >= 45) {
AllowAccessToIllum;
}
else { DenyAccess; }
is a "huge problem." Then SWTOR is not well designed. An MMORPG has to be designed to be able to be patched/modified easily. If it's not, then it's a major problem.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
How is it different? Do tell if you decided to loot the containers over mob farming ;-)
See, it isn't that difficult...
It is just a matter of common sense and this discussions actually serve only one purpose - finding ways to get around.
Ok, so I didn't read all 9 pages. I apologise in advance if this was covered:
So to me sounds like easy win for PVP'ers. Let's organize something like Hulkageddon from Eve and get PVP groups actively looking for these guys and kill them. Make a contest out of it. I'm glad bioware is doing something to combat them, but just as the farmers can say that "there's an ingame mechanic so we're using it" well.. on llum, we have a mechanic to combat it too, it's called kicking your butt :P
Abusing game mechanics is not allowed. What part of that don't you understand? You probably think rigging lotto or insider trading is just fine, even though there are laws against it, it was built in a way where it could be done, therefore it should be allowed.
That logic is so utterly wrong.
I think its amusing how many people are bashing the devs for having a bug/exploit in their game. If programming is so easy to grasp for you, go ahead and try it.
Yes, Betas catch bugs and exploits, but its entirely unrealistic to expect them to catch EVERY single bug and/or exploit.
It was there, the players did it. And did it. And did it. And did it. And some botted it. And some upset the server's economies by doing it.
Its the same thing as players complaining about being warned/banned for trying to corner the economy on a single item. They do it by buying all of that item off the market and repost them at a profit. Yes, it's allowed by game functions, but its asshattery and hard to prevent short of altering the entire inplace market systems in a themepark MMO.
The players exploiting the boxes were made an example of. This isn't the first time an MMORPG company has done this and won't be the last time, so PLEASE stop being so damn naive about it.
.. But in a good way.
I agree with exception....you get caught as a criminal in real life you pay in real life. (hopefully). I propose if players do thsi stuff in game then punish them in game. Sure it's be simple enough to lock the boxes by level. They could also..add more mobs around...in this case...the chests. All well and good. Instead..though...why not warn. If infracted upon again...take away any gains from the spoils and incur artifcial prison time resulting in becoming rusty (skill/level loss). So to speak. Take away levels from the character and any abilties,skill tree points and loot unusuable at their resulting level. The worse the infraction the more levels lost..including legacy levels. Repeat offenders lose more levels than the time before. If the offender reaches 1st level then ban the account for a period of time. If they want to keep paying only to go back to level one again then they're idiots. I know this wont happen and is probably too much of a pain to manage.but just an idea.
"...action was taken against a number of accounts for what's commonly known as 'gold farming' - or in our case, credit farming. These accounts were found to be exploiting the game in a variety of ways to maximize their credits in order to sell them to other players..."
The first part could, in my reading refer to any gold farming, the second part however narrows it down to real-mony-trading. How else would you sell in-game currency?
It's completely different, nobody gets hurt from looting chest
Yes, and you will decline in real life when someone offers you a small job and pays you ten times the regular fees
There are rules and laws and every-day common sense in real life, like not opening chests everywhere and take the content that you know is not lawfully yours, and not killing everyone with the wrong coloured glow.
In just about all MMO's, MMORPG and RPG's you're supposed to make your character open all chests and containers (and pick their lock or bash them) and get what's in them. Exploring new territory and taking risks doing so is also quite common in them.
But now years of common practice are thrown overboard and you're supposed to know that you can loot some, but not other chests?
Sounds just about how asian F2P mmo's are run, don't fix problems, simply ban players. It's not helping me to want to spend money on a game...
They should just fix the chests, with nearly 2 million subs you should think thay have some money to spend.
And why are there chests with high-value loot in a PvP area anyway?
It's how the area was designed, if you don't want pathing issues to prevent mob's from fighting back, then design your area's so that there are no pathing issues.
Again, the devs designed the area's including such advantages. If these advantages were unintended they should fix the area, not the players.
Sorta like a stunlock, or knocklock? You know, using every advantage you can get over your opponent is part of PvP. It's the developer's job to remove unfair advantages, not to remove players.I think it's a good thing you don't develop or sell games, or even market them, because you are doing an awfully poor job on it.
If the game-rules make it difficult for a melee type to get on the roof from which a ranged char is shooting at them then that is what the rules are. Should the melee char stop beating the ranged char when they get a penalty to their attacks in melee range?
Heh ya it is a stretch:P
But could you imagine the amount of players that would love this? They would have a complete list of bugs, and or exploits inside a week:P
Then this whole drama would be solved no one would be banned. Sounds like a win win to me:)
I remember WoW banning ranged players for sniping people from the tops of buildings in Classic
Good times.
They banned them until there was a mechanical fix.
.. But in a good way.
I'm with you on this.
Botting, not ok obviously.
Looting something over and over again because you can, thats not the players fault. There is absolutely wrong with that.
Unless BW cleverly reworded there TOS to say "We can ban you for whatever we dream up"....then I am on the players side, and this is bullshit.
hmmm, let me quote you here first, its an amazing statement you made...I want to make sure it is preserved.
"they are alienating what few players they have at launch"
Now that we have that out of the way lets talk how game bugs are identified shall we. First off, the correction happens BEFORE Beta testing, in Alpha testers. Closed Beta are usually added much later, normally when the content is being fished out. Now as for Beta testers lets move on to the worst assumption in the history of assumptions in these games, the one where Open Beta people actually believe they have any word in anything that is in need of being fixed before launch.
By the time the game reaches the open beta mark, the only issues they want to hear from you are massive game breaking issues which will stop the luanch all together, and stress tests. Behind the scenes, while you are in Open Beta, the Alhpa and Closed Beta people are usually still doing what they were before you started playing. They are still reporting bugs on the official CLOSED tester forums. These are the ones the devs look at prior to launch for bug finds and fixes, and most of the time for suggestions too. Open Beta forums are a joke, they are there to let you think you matter, but you dont, not unless half a million of you scream all together about the same thing really loud.
Now, lets try a small think called thinking here for a moment shall we, just a small one, I dont want to stress you out on it too much. Lets ask a simple question, how many games can you name in the MMORPG genre which have been released in the past 15 years which have been 100% bug free at launch? I mean if you're going to hold Bioware to this standard of yours, at least there should be a standard to hold them to dont you think? I mean we can't rightly hold them to an ideal, something we BELIEVE the standard should be, but which noone in the history of the genre has ever been able to achieve. I guess if I was as arrogant as you, I might believe my opinion was that important to the world, but alas I am not.
And lets look at your other belief you have there, the one where you think the developers of this game obviously have never played any game in thier lives. I'm not sure I know where you get that assumption, but I would think a like assumption of you having never developed a game can just as easily be made. Neither one is relivant to the issue in this thread though, so no need to discuss them.
I stand by my earlier statement though, they made the game, they set the rules, you follow the rules or quit playing the game. Wait...or you could go apply for a job at Bioware where you could biatch about your concerns in a team meeting on your first day of work and subsiquently get fired on your second day of work. It could happen you know, at least then you could say you actually worked for a game developing company.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Not sure about BW's TOS, but last I checked, Blizzard's pretty much says this. They blanket over a TON of stuff.
.. But in a good way.
Yeah because rigging the lotto or insider trading are really similar to repeatedly looting a chest that is there to be looted. Right.
I think it's ridiculous how so many people try to act like "you must have no morals!" if you defend a player for looting a chest in a game repeatedly. If I'm playing a game, and I find a legitimate in-game way to get an advantage, you know what? I'm going to take it.
I'm going to be happy that I found something cool too and probably tell my friends. Maybe I'm going to hell for this, not sure.
Note that I will NOT take the advantage if it is obviously the result of a bug exploit like duping. But if it's just a group of mobs that are awesome exp, or a chest that keeps spawning with good stuff (in a reasonable amount of time), then I'm going to take it.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Do some people know how to read?
They banned Gold Farmer's, they warned Exploiter's and I would suspect that if the exploiter didnt listen to the warning they got a suspension.
Plain and Simple
"Be water my friend" - Bruce Lee
YOUR GONNA BURN LITTLE MAN !!! lol
lol i would not want to go to your restaurant
I LOL'd at this post, just for the idea of someone looking over their shoulder to make sure no one is looking, taking a slice of ham out of their sandwich, then being tackled by store security.