While I haven't found Swtor to my liking , I am impressed that they are dealing with botters and gold sellers so well.
Would be great if more comapnies would take care about it like that.
For accusations it does not stop gold selling. Well nothing stop it 100% , even if company sell it itself in cash shop there is still 'illegal' gold sold by gold sellers.
So yeah - for proactive stance at botting and just taking care - you have big ok from me.
Just to clarify Creslin, rigging is what they were doing. The chests auto-respawned when the Zone flipped control, and people were taking advantage of that to flip the zone as fast as possible and loot the chests.
So, if I read you correctly, two PvP teams would have to cooperate for this to work?
Since it's underpopulated right now a couple people can flip the zone back an forth over and over. They aren't pvping, they are working together (on opposite factions) to flip the bases as fast as possible, for the sole purpose of exploiting.
that was an obvius and well deserved bann, i hope they keep doing it, players that where there knew what they where doing very well, and should have just reported it to BW, you arent there to outsmart BW just to play the game, if something is to good to be true then u are exploiting
Just to clarify Creslin, rigging is what they were doing. The chests auto-respawned when the Zone flipped control, and people were taking advantage of that to flip the zone as fast as possible and loot the chests.
So, if I read you correctly, two PvP teams would have to cooperate for this to work?
That's my understanding as well, and it's at the heart of the problem. Basing the respawn rate on who controls what area on the map, isn't an incentive to fight, as Bioware may have hoped...afterall, PVP is voluntary, not mandatory. They played a different game...how fast can we flip the zones, and loot the containers, working together? I personally don't see anything wrong with that.
Since it's underpopulated right now a couple people can flip the zone back an forth over and over. They aren't pvping, they are working together (on opposite factions) to flip the bases as fast as possible, for the sole purpose of exploiting.
for the sole purpose of looting containers for gear and creds, not exploiting
Since it's underpopulated right now a couple people can flip the zone back an forth over and over. They aren't pvping, they are working together (on opposite factions) to flip the bases as fast as possible, for the sole purpose of exploiting.
for the sole purpose of looting containers for gear and creds, not exploiting
Simple question time, do you think Bioware intends for high end gear to be that easily available, and on the market to such an extent? I'm willing to bet no.
Now simple logic time, isn't that what exploiting is? (IE) taking advantage of an oversight or problem?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If something in the game seems too good to be true, for example, being able to farm a level 50 chest every 10 minutes for 4000-5000 credits a pop, when you are only a level 14 character, I would suggest that you just don't do it, or you might get your arms ripped off ... ask any bot who has played against a Wookie
Why? They are doing something which the game allows them to do which imo is a ban for the devs rather than the players. Sounds to me that Bioware is trying to push the blame on the players for what is clearly either poor game design or an oversight on their part.
But my point of view comes from playing sandbox games and I often try to go away from the linear path which Themeparks want you to take.
Yea what the hell? They are banning people because they were looting boxes over and over that the game has in a zone? I mean ok i get it they banned gold sellers. AND THAT is awesome. But people being able to get ahead of other players because they discovered a good way to get money thats what MMO's are all about. If it was becoming a problem then why not put a cooldown timer on the chests so that they can only be looted by a player after a certain time warning/suspending a player is pretty lame.
I feel like a great response to this would be GMs. Some level 50 Elite GMs come in and destroy the crap outta these players That way you could sort out the exploiters and the actually players just grabbing some credits for themselves better too.
I think wandering (checking in on things) Elite GMs would be cool in general
I guess with so many servers, the GM position would be hard to fill though, too bad...
Since it's underpopulated right now a couple people can flip the zone back an forth over and over. They aren't pvping, they are working together (on opposite factions) to flip the bases as fast as possible, for the sole purpose of exploiting.
for the sole purpose of looting containers for gear and creds, not exploiting
Simple question time, do you think Bioware intends for high end gear to be that easily available, and on the market to such an extent? I'm willing to bet no.
I know for a fact that they didn't intend for that to happen. Such is the product of trying to predict player behavior instead of implementing sound programming decisions.
Now simple logic time, isn't that what exploiting is? (IE) taking advantage of an oversight or problem?
That's how video games are played, and have been since the beginning--you either try to figure out what the devs "want" you to do, or the best way to do it that doesn't exploit a bug or some other way of working around the original programming. If it's deemed too easy by the producer of the content, it's up to them to increase the level of difficulty.
Also, my fellow MMOers, let's not get too bogged down in the morality of looting containers that are meant to be looted, and start comparing that to doing other stuff we consider naughty--many aspects in video games promote bad behavior anyway...violent conflicts, robbing corpses, etc lol ...stealing from a chest is bad, but stealing from a chest that's meant for you to steal from is...ummm...still stealing--buh buh but, since it's meant for you to steal from it, it's good!...unless it's too easy for you to steal...that's ummm...bad I think.
It's time we all realized that even though we are all playing the same game, we may not be playing the same game. I'm playing a game to see how fast I can level...he's playing the game to see how rich he can get...she's playing a game to see what she can find...they're playing to be the most powerful fighter...etc. If you're playing to be the richest sob on the server, you'd better search high and low for every credit making opportunity. If you're playing to be the best fighter, you'd better get a hold of the best gear. If you want to level fast, you'd better find the most efficient avenue...all of that is exploiting, but it's not cheating or unfair as long as you play by the rules...even if it's too easy.
...and I've said it before, but please keep in mind that PVP is optional, not mandatory...even on PVP servers, in PVP locations.
Simple question time, do you think Bioware intends for high end gear to be that easily available, and on the market to such an extent? I'm willing to bet no.
I know for a fact that they didn't intend for that to happen. Such is the product of trying to predict player behavior instead of implementing sound programming decisions.
Now simple logic time, isn't that what exploiting is? (IE) taking advantage of an oversight or problem?
That's how video games are played, and have been since the beginning--you either try to figure out what the devs "want" you to do, or the best way to do it that doesn't exploit a bug or some other way of working around the original programming. If it's deemed too easy by the producer of the content, it's up to them to increase the level of difficulty.
Also, my fellow MMOers, let's not get too bogged down in the morality of looting containers that are meant to be looted, and start comparing that to doing other stuff we consider naughty--
Who said anything about morality? I surely didn't. I really don't give a hoot what players do with their time. That's really not the point I'm making. What I am saying is the above is what is known (by devs) to be "exploiting" in the MMO world. Look at the act how you want, it won't change the simple thing I've pointed out.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
If something in the game seems too good to be true, for example, being able to farm a level 50 chest every 10 minutes for 4000-5000 credits a pop, when you are only a level 14 character, I would suggest that you just don't do it, or you might get your arms ripped off ... ask any bot who has played against a Wookie
Why? They are doing something which the game allows them to do which imo is a ban for the devs rather than the players. Sounds to me that Bioware is trying to push the blame on the players for what is clearly either poor game design or an oversight on their part.
But my point of view comes from playing sandbox games and I often try to go away from the linear path which Themeparks want you to take.
Never will understand this view by some people. Life allows me the posability to shoot you in the head with my Sig, should I do it just because I can? And if I do, should I believe the cops shouldn't arrest me for killing your dumb ass? Should I expect them to not push the blame on me for your murder since the game of life was poorly designed.
Oh and yeah, just to point out, real life is a sandbox game, so dont use that as an excuse either.
You should know better, level 15 taking in 5000 credits ever 10 minutes without any effort, when you KNOW everyone else at level 15 is making 5000 credits every 3 hours. YOU SHOULD KNOW BETTER! Did your momma never spank you when you were a kid? If not maybe she should have, obviously you never learned about doing whats right and not doing what you know isn't. (and no, this is not a personal attack against this particular poster, he just gave the example and I am responding to everyone who has this attitude towards exploiting a game.)
This analogy is so poor I don't even know where to start. To compare a virtual, and even in BW's view legitimate action (looting of chests) with the worst RL crime (murdering of a person) shows a very strange moral conception ....
But the comparison follows also a flawed logic. Since in this example it must be allowed to shoot 1 or 2 people in the head, but if you shoot, say 500 people, than and only than it is considered a crime.
And now I have to ask if your momma never spanked you and if so, if she'd better leave you untouched ....
EDIT: the way I see it, the whole problem in this mess produced by Bioware is the unpredictability of the possible sanctions. All penal systems can only work if everybody clearly knows the limit of what is allowed and what not. To make it dependent on a special amount of per se legitimate actions if the worst idea somone can have ....
Simple question time, do you think Bioware intends for high end gear to be that easily available, and on the market to such an extent? I'm willing to bet no.
I know for a fact that they didn't intend for that to happen. Such is the product of trying to predict player behavior instead of implementing sound programming decisions.
Now simple logic time, isn't that what exploiting is? (IE) taking advantage of an oversight or problem?
That's how video games are played, and have been since the beginning--you either try to figure out what the devs "want" you to do, or the best way to do it that doesn't exploit a bug or some other way of working around the original programming. If it's deemed too easy by the producer of the content, it's up to them to increase the level of difficulty.
Also, my fellow MMOers, let's not get too bogged down in the morality of looting containers that are meant to be looted, and start comparing that to doing other stuff we consider naughty--
Who said anything about morality? I surely didn't. I really don't give a hoot what players do with their time. That's really not the point I'm making. What I am saying is the above is what is known (by devs) to be "exploiting" in the MMO world. Look at the act how you want, it won't change the simple thing I've pointed out.
As I was glancing through the posts in this thread, I saw some mention "what if I did this or that just because I could" comparisons...they felt completely out of place in this debate, and kind of funny--sorry if you thought I was referring to your post.
As for what you've pointed out, from your perspective, and Bioware's, it's bad that players are taking advantage of something that is too easy--from mine, it's just players taking advantage of something that's too easy. What's funny is how subjective it all is, because even though we might agree that it's too easy, someone else might think it's too much of a hassle.
Second, a smaller number of accounts were warned or temporarily suspended for exploiting loot containers on Ilum. To be completely clear, while players may choose to travel to Ilum earlier than the recommended level (40+) and may loot containers if they can get to them, in the cases of those customers that were warned or temporarily suspended, they were systematically and repeatedly looting containers in very high numbers resulting in the game economy becoming unbalanced.
So what they are saying is by people looting containers that were meant for level 50's when they were level 40 it was illegal, so what if a level 50 did the same exact same thing would they have banned/suspended a level 50 too. In fact this was no exploit at all they just decided to take action because of their mistake with the game this was totally their own fault here.
Because of their mistake I really think people should just stay away from SWTOR until they give a Trial, and or until the game goes Free 2 Play, I played it during beta, and to see them admitting to their own mistake here saying that looting containers which were supposed to be 40+ this was no ones fault but theirs. I mean If I wanted to I could easily stand at a chest all day and loot them if I wanted to 24/7 at level 40 or any level I please I would end up getting suspended because of their mistake as well.
SWTOR Game Play is not that great, the story is okay, but the game totally lacks with Crafting, Customization, PVP, Open World PVP, it isn't worth $15 a month yet or even worth actually paying for the game until they fix the game to be a lot better.
Personaly if the game allows u to earn fast money why they ban people?
If they start trading those gredits for real cash and spaming then the should be banned but what about the players that want to earn money for their pleasure
Personaly if the game allows u to earn fast money why they ban people?
If they start trading those gredits for real cash and spaming then the should be banned but what about the players that want to earn money for their pleasure
that is being reactive rather than proactive.
I fully expect the next update to lock Illum or chests down to a min level range.
The key thing you have to recall is that people banned were FARMING the chests , not just, 'lets grab a few and go' but doing nothing but collecting as many as they could (probably 24/7)
do some math..
5k X 6 (that one chest every 10 mins for an hour) X 24 (per day) x 7 (for a week...)
so
5k x 6 = 30K per hour
30K x 24 = 720K per day
720k x 7 = 5,040,000 credits per week.....
That kinda of influx into the economy would rapidly destabilise it. I am glad Bioware/EA took action to stop this right away, and they told us what was going on as soon as someone piped up on it. And then shot down people who claimed they were banned when they were not.....
We live in strange times when extremist right wing views on crime and puniment are injected in a discussion forums dedicated to video games. yes we know you want people to die for credit farming or worse then being banned go to their homes and arrest the familys for knowing this person. but this is a video game not a teabagger rally for womens rights.
It's bad form to ban a person playing a video game when the developers are responsible for gating the access to the content they claim people are exploiting. in more simple terms, put a dam level requirement on it.
it's also hard to tell the difference from someone transfering large sums of credits and a gold farmer making a transaction. this is where we enter the realm of injecting real world criminal laws with a virtual world that supposed to allow a player to do things they could never do in real life.
If game designers and the companys don't stop pretending the law of the land in RL are not the same in their made-up worlds we will have problems.
Thanks for trying to bring some reason into the mind of all these self-proclaimed law enforcers. Couldn't be better said. After all it's just a game ... well, i guess so
And I pray they continue to ban people who exploit this. I went to Illum for an hour just to see if I could add any names to a ticket. Suprisingly I found 4 people under 20 that were doing the same thing and a ticket sent in. ;-)
Member of Talon | www.lakexeno.com RIFT: Redcameo, Warrior, Faemist Server RIFT: Bluecameo, Mage, Faemist Server
Originally posted by Cameo3 And I pray they continue to ban people who exploit this. I went to Illum for an hour just to see if I could add any names to a ticket. Suprisingly I found 4 people under 20 that were doing the same thing and a ticket sent in. ;-)
Well aren't you a spiteful special kind of asshole.
This game really lack that much content you have to go be a straight up dick?
Vote Republican much?
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
Ive read the responses, some of you are misinformed about the loot exploit.
Its not that low level cant loot the 4k-5k credit loot container, when reid sid 10 min , he meant the players exploited so that the loot container respawns every 1 minute instead of 10 minutes.
Youve all been misinformed, thats how ridiculous this exploit is, and imagine how much they can make by farming the loot container every 1 minutes for 5-6 hours even 10 hours?
thats an exploit.
the actual explit was low levels making 4000-5000 credit by forcing loto container respawn at a rate of 1 minute not 10 minutes.
Hi guys, please refrain from accusing each other of cheating and veering off into murder comparisons and the like. It's just detrimental to actual discussion and verges on off topic. Even if someone disagrees with you, remember to disagree in a civil manner.
Thanks.
To give feedback on moderation, contact mikeb@mmorpg.com
Originally posted by spinner_vis Bioware messed up. i they didn't want players to loot those chests all day long, they should have designed it differently.
I don't think every possible player action needs to be governed by a line of code. Used to be that we were capable of playing by the rules all on our own. Some of us still do know right from wrong and fair from advantage. I approve banning those that don't.
Comments
While I haven't found Swtor to my liking , I am impressed that they are dealing with botters and gold sellers so well.
Would be great if more comapnies would take care about it like that.
For accusations it does not stop gold selling. Well nothing stop it 100% , even if company sell it itself in cash shop there is still 'illegal' gold sold by gold sellers.
So yeah - for proactive stance at botting and just taking care - you have big ok from me.
Imagine all the people blitzzard would have to ban when tol barad was flipped by both factions for a few days :P
Was the time when regaining it brought a lot more than keeping the zone - and is still a pretty unbalanced battleground
So, if I read you correctly, two PvP teams would have to cooperate for this to work?
Since it's underpopulated right now a couple people can flip the zone back an forth over and over. They aren't pvping, they are working together (on opposite factions) to flip the bases as fast as possible, for the sole purpose of exploiting.
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that was an obvius and well deserved bann, i hope they keep doing it, players that where there knew what they where doing very well, and should have just reported it to BW, you arent there to outsmart BW just to play the game, if something is to good to be true then u are exploiting
That's my understanding as well, and it's at the heart of the problem. Basing the respawn rate on who controls what area on the map, isn't an incentive to fight, as Bioware may have hoped...afterall, PVP is voluntary, not mandatory. They played a different game...how fast can we flip the zones, and loot the containers, working together? I personally don't see anything wrong with that.
for the sole purpose of looting containers for gear and creds, not exploiting
Simple question time, do you think Bioware intends for high end gear to be that easily available, and on the market to such an extent? I'm willing to bet no.
Now simple logic time, isn't that what exploiting is? (IE) taking advantage of an oversight or problem?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Yea what the hell? They are banning people because they were looting boxes over and over that the game has in a zone? I mean ok i get it they banned gold sellers. AND THAT is awesome. But people being able to get ahead of other players because they discovered a good way to get money thats what MMO's are all about. If it was becoming a problem then why not put a cooldown timer on the chests so that they can only be looted by a player after a certain time warning/suspending a player is pretty lame.
I feel like a great response to this would be GMs. Some level 50 Elite GMs come in and destroy the crap outta these players
That way you could sort out the exploiters and the actually players just grabbing some credits for themselves better too.
I think wandering (checking in on things) Elite GMs would be cool in general
I guess with so many servers, the GM position would be hard to fill though, too bad...
Its clear that bioware is sending a message that cheating wont be tolerated in this game. Good for them. {mod edit}
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Also, my fellow MMOers, let's not get too bogged down in the morality of looting containers that are meant to be looted, and start comparing that to doing other stuff we consider naughty--many aspects in video games promote bad behavior anyway...violent conflicts, robbing corpses, etc lol ...stealing from a chest is bad, but stealing from a chest that's meant for you to steal from is...ummm...still stealing--buh buh but, since it's meant for you to steal from it, it's good!...unless it's too easy for you to steal...that's ummm...bad I think.
It's time we all realized that even though we are all playing the same game, we may not be playing the same game. I'm playing a game to see how fast I can level...he's playing the game to see how rich he can get...she's playing a game to see what she can find...they're playing to be the most powerful fighter...etc. If you're playing to be the richest sob on the server, you'd better search high and low for every credit making opportunity. If you're playing to be the best fighter, you'd better get a hold of the best gear. If you want to level fast, you'd better find the most efficient avenue...all of that is exploiting, but it's not cheating or unfair as long as you play by the rules...even if it's too easy.
...and I've said it before, but please keep in mind that PVP is optional, not mandatory...even on PVP servers, in PVP locations.
Who said anything about morality? I surely didn't. I really don't give a hoot what players do with their time. That's really not the point I'm making. What I am saying is the above is what is known (by devs) to be "exploiting" in the MMO world. Look at the act how you want, it won't change the simple thing I've pointed out.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
This analogy is so poor I don't even know where to start. To compare a virtual, and even in BW's view legitimate action (looting of chests) with the worst RL crime (murdering of a person) shows a very strange moral conception ....
But the comparison follows also a flawed logic. Since in this example it must be allowed to shoot 1 or 2 people in the head, but if you shoot, say 500 people, than and only than it is considered a crime.
And now I have to ask if your momma never spanked you and if so, if she'd better leave you untouched ....
EDIT: the way I see it, the whole problem in this mess produced by Bioware is the unpredictability of the possible sanctions. All penal systems can only work if everybody clearly knows the limit of what is allowed and what not. To make it dependent on a special amount of per se legitimate actions if the worst idea somone can have ....
As I was glancing through the posts in this thread, I saw some mention "what if I did this or that just because I could" comparisons...they felt completely out of place in this debate, and kind of funny--sorry if you thought I was referring to your post.
As for what you've pointed out, from your perspective, and Bioware's, it's bad that players are taking advantage of something that is too easy--from mine, it's just players taking advantage of something that's too easy. What's funny is how subjective it all is, because even though we might agree that it's too easy, someone else might think it's too much of a hassle.
http://www.swtorface.com/2012/01/bots-farming-swtor-get-arms-ripped-off.html
Quoted from that site.
Second, a smaller number of accounts were warned or temporarily suspended for exploiting loot containers on Ilum. To be completely clear, while players may choose to travel to Ilum earlier than the recommended level (40+) and may loot containers if they can get to them, in the cases of those customers that were warned or temporarily suspended, they were systematically and repeatedly looting containers in very high numbers resulting in the game economy becoming unbalanced.
So what they are saying is by people looting containers that were meant for level 50's when they were level 40 it was illegal, so what if a level 50 did the same exact same thing would they have banned/suspended a level 50 too. In fact this was no exploit at all they just decided to take action because of their mistake with the game this was totally their own fault here.
Because of their mistake I really think people should just stay away from SWTOR until they give a Trial, and or until the game goes Free 2 Play, I played it during beta, and to see them admitting to their own mistake here saying that looting containers which were supposed to be 40+ this was no ones fault but theirs. I mean If I wanted to I could easily stand at a chest all day and loot them if I wanted to 24/7 at level 40 or any level I please I would end up getting suspended because of their mistake as well.
SWTOR Game Play is not that great, the story is okay, but the game totally lacks with Crafting, Customization, PVP, Open World PVP, it isn't worth $15 a month yet or even worth actually paying for the game until they fix the game to be a lot better.
Personaly if the game allows u to earn fast money why they ban people?
If they start trading those gredits for real cash and spaming then the should be banned but what about the players that want to earn money for their pleasure
that is being reactive rather than proactive.
I fully expect the next update to lock Illum or chests down to a min level range.
The key thing you have to recall is that people banned were FARMING the chests , not just, 'lets grab a few and go' but doing nothing but collecting as many as they could (probably 24/7)
do some math..
5k X 6 (that one chest every 10 mins for an hour) X 24 (per day) x 7 (for a week...)
so
5k x 6 = 30K per hour
30K x 24 = 720K per day
720k x 7 = 5,040,000 credits per week.....
That kinda of influx into the economy would rapidly destabilise it. I am glad Bioware/EA took action to stop this right away, and they told us what was going on as soon as someone piped up on it. And then shot down people who claimed they were banned when they were not.....
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ab/Norsefire-logo.png
Thanks for trying to bring some reason into the mind of all these self-proclaimed law enforcers. Couldn't be better said. After all it's just a game ... well, i guess so
And I pray they continue to ban people who exploit this. I went to Illum for an hour just to see if I could add any names to a ticket. Suprisingly I found 4 people under 20 that were doing the same thing and a ticket sent in. ;-)
Member of Talon | www.lakexeno.com
RIFT: Redcameo, Warrior, Faemist Server
RIFT: Bluecameo, Mage, Faemist Server
Well aren't you a spiteful special kind of asshole.
This game really lack that much content you have to go be a straight up dick?
Vote Republican much?
I used to play MMOs like you, but then I took an arrow to the knee.
Ive read the responses, some of you are misinformed about the loot exploit.
Its not that low level cant loot the 4k-5k credit loot container, when reid sid 10 min , he meant the players exploited so that the loot container respawns every 1 minute instead of 10 minutes.
Youve all been misinformed, thats how ridiculous this exploit is, and imagine how much they can make by farming the loot container every 1 minutes for 5-6 hours even 10 hours?
thats an exploit.
the actual explit was low levels making 4000-5000 credit by forcing loto container respawn at a rate of 1 minute not 10 minutes.
Hi guys, please refrain from accusing each other of cheating and veering off into murder comparisons and the like. It's just detrimental to actual discussion and verges on off topic. Even if someone disagrees with you, remember to disagree in a civil manner.
Thanks.
To give feedback on moderation, contact mikeb@mmorpg.com
I don't think every possible player action needs to be governed by a line of code. Used to be that we were capable of playing by the rules all on our own. Some of us still do know right from wrong and fair from advantage. I approve banning those that don't.