and so the cat is out of the bag! EA has done it again! [High Rez Textures Thread]

Professor78

Originally posted by Praetalus

Originally posted by nblitz

Originally posted by Obidom

 

And you know what? I am actually suprised that response was approved to be posted, as they are now official subjective to criminal charges (read request for FULL refunds from customers).

Can you state teh Penal code or law that they broke?

 

LOL Civil matter at most and if you read the EULA you will find you can do nothing about it as 'Gameplay is subject to change at any time'

 

Please, Please, tell me at least one game where the game launched as smoothly as SWTOR? one game where the Promo 'Teasers' where EXACTLY like the gameplay for the MMO?

 

 

From the forums. Someone who is schooled in this department: can you back this up? 

 

Thank you for the explanation. However, this whole issue falls under false advertisement or deceptive advertising. Bioware willfully used false or misleading advertising for swtor which persuaded many of us into commercial transactions that we might otherwise passed on. I think Bioware should offer refunds to the people that bought the product because the deceptive advertising persuaded them to buy it. There are laws here in California that protect consumers from this practice and the FTC has laws and the Lanham Act. To establish a violation under the Lanham Act, consumers and competitors must prove the following: (1) the advertiser made false statements of fact about its product; (2) the false advertisements actually deceived or had the capacity to deceive a substantial segment of the target population; (3) the deception was material; (4) the falsely advertised product was sold in interstate commerce I think what Bioware did qualifies as a violation of the Lanham Act.

 

Ok, here we go. FIRST - As the poster said, you would need to establish that the ADVERTISER ( In some cases, not Bioware) made false statements of facts about it's product. 

 

Here's the issue... and again, I practice law and can tell you this would be a no win senario. Mostly due to the "high resolution" texture argument. It's too vague. You were never promised a certain level of resolution. Also, the EULA exist to counteract these types of issues and trust me.. they're a one-sided contract, often referred to as a "shrink wrap contract". There is very little case law in the U.S that would lead to you winning these types of cases. 

 

Trust me folks, walk into a law office with this mess and get laughed out. 

 

Shuldnt there be something like "not actual footage" added somewhere.

illorion

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by JeroKane

You really do not get it do you??

*snip*

Oh I have. But I don't care.

I still think the game looks great and if it was 100% cinematic textures my rig would probably not be able to run it as well. I never even noticed the graphics "change" in a cutscene.

This is what it sounds like to me:

Bioware creates game with high res textures. There are some issues. Only people with uber rigs can run the game maxed out in beta - people complain.

Bioware decides it'd be better to lower the graphics a bit in the open world so that 99% of people can have a better play experience, and still the uber graphics in conversations where the "zoomed in" camera has a big effect.

Due to time constraints, getting the uber high res textures and such back into the game for the 1% with uber rigs is pushed to a "post launch" consideration.

We are now post launch, things are being done to put them back in for peope who can run them.

 

This is a problem why?

If developers told us every change and re-do they made during the development process of the game, we'd get 100 e-mails or more a day.

Was this some conspiracy to dupe people into thinking the game looked better than it did?

NO.

Anyone who thinks so needs to take off the tin foil hat and re-join reality (or join for the first time)

Ahhh i see what you did there.... downplaying the numbers... very crafty.

Okay.... first off its not "they turned the graphics down a LIttle" they turned the graphics down alot... like a whole lot... like the other guy said 50%

Second. Most people who play PC games have decent rigs... thats why they play PC games.... or else they would just play them on console. So its not 1% of people have uber rigs... its more like at least half of PC gamer have good rigs.... you can build a rig to run this game at max for less than 750 bucks. 

Third... those people always had the option to turn down their graphics... i mean fuck the game auto detects your gaphics for you for christ sake.... you know what mine got autodetected too???? MAX

Finally... this wasnt a small change... this wasnt a "hey we changed the dialog on from quest giver X so he sounded less redneck" 

This was "hey you know that red car that you bought form us that you like so much cause its red.... well we are painting it green and always intedned to paint it green from the moment you bought it when it was shiny and red off the lot.... fuck you if you dont like it"

BadSpock

Originally posted by Teala

Lot of displeased players over on the main forum. 

The most popular games always have the loudest screamers on MMO forums.

Official forums for popular MMOs are always a joke.

People just like to whine and bitch. They expect perfection but offer nothing to help achieve it.

 

What is really sad is that the maybe 5% of forum posts actually worth the time it took to write them are usually drowned out by the 95% of garbage and all the moderation/forum reading by the devs is spent cleaing up the mess instead of listening to the diamonds in the rough...

 

drbaltazar

the issue isnt just the graphic ,the issue is its barelly playable even with  low to medium setting this is what put player in such an uproar,if the game was smooth everywhere it wouldnt be an issue but people with good gear have issue of playability it isnt just the graphic that is at stake as they very carefully tiptoed around this subject while speaking about the title of the thread only but if you go on the first thread related to this in swtor you ll see other issue rise that arent explainable either!

boubhs

anyway this is lame.

good job EA once again...

TUX426

Originally posted by nikoliath

low blow, disgusted, misleading....... a bit OTT there? MMO's are liable to change -period- and in this case to insure performance quality.

 

Fine by me.

Agreed!

BadSpock

Originally posted by illorion

Ahhh i see what you did there.... downplaying the numbers... very crafty.

Okay.... first off its not "they turned the graphics down a LIttle" they turned the graphics down alot... like a whole lot... like the other guy said 50%

Second. Most people who play PC games have decent rigs... thats why they play PC games.... or else they would just play them on console. So its not 1% of people have uber rigs... its more like at least half of PC gamer have good rigs.... you can build a rig to run this game at max for less than 750 bucks. 

Third... those people always had the option to turn down their graphics... i mean fuck the game auto detects your gaphics for you for christ sake.... you know what mine got autodetected too???? MAX

Finally... this wasnt a small change... this wasnt a "hey we changed the dialog on from quest giver X so he sounded less redneck" 

This was "hey you know that red car that you bought form us that you like so much cause its red.... well we are painting it green and always intedned to paint it green from the moment you bought it when it was shiny and red off the lot.... fuck you if you dont like it"

Little dramatic don't  you think?

I think a more accurate analogy would be that you buy a new shiny waxed red car, drive it home, and when you get out in your drive way and look at it - it's already dirty and has some dirt built up around the wheel wells.

Do you go back to the dealer and say "my car isn't as shiney anymore?!?"

No.

You re-wax it yourself.

Right now, Bioware is applying the post-launch coat of wax.

You're the fool who thought the car would always look as good as it did on the show room floor.

sassoonss

This will not stop me from playing as I am enjoying the game

 

But yes it is plain cheating.I can understand why people feel so and they are right if they want their money back

 

NBlitz

Originally posted by Praetalus

Originally posted by nblitz

Originally posted by Obidom

 

And you know what? I am actually suprised that response was approved to be posted, as they are now official subjective to criminal charges (read request for FULL refunds from customers).

Can you state teh Penal code or law that they broke?

 

LOL Civil matter at most and if you read the EULA you will find you can do nothing about it as 'Gameplay is subject to change at any time'

 

Please, Please, tell me at least one game where the game launched as smoothly as SWTOR? one game where the Promo 'Teasers' where EXACTLY like the gameplay for the MMO?

 

 

From the forums. Someone who is schooled in this department: can you back this up? 

 

Thank you for the explanation. However, this whole issue falls under false advertisement or deceptive advertising. Bioware willfully used false or misleading advertising for swtor which persuaded many of us into commercial transactions that we might otherwise passed on. I think Bioware should offer refunds to the people that bought the product because the deceptive advertising persuaded them to buy it. There are laws here in California that protect consumers from this practice and the FTC has laws and the Lanham Act. To establish a violation under the Lanham Act, consumers and competitors must prove the following: (1) the advertiser made false statements of fact about its product; (2) the false advertisements actually deceived or had the capacity to deceive a substantial segment of the target population; (3) the deception was material; (4) the falsely advertised product was sold in interstate commerce I think what Bioware did qualifies as a violation of the Lanham Act.

 

Ok, here we go. FIRST - As the poster said, you would need to establish that the ADVERTISER ( In some cases, not Bioware) made false statements of facts about it's product. 

 

Here's the issue... and again, I practice law and can tell you this would be a no win senario. Mostly due to the "high resolution" texture argument. It's too vague. You were never promised a certain level of resolution. Also, the EULA exist to counteract these types of issues and trust me.. they're a one-sided contract, often referred to as a "shrink wrap contract". There is very little case law in the U.S that would lead to you winning these types of cases. 

 

Trust me folks, walk into a law office with this mess and get laughed out. 

My mama always taught me not to trust strangers  Especially when they say "trust me".

drbaltazar

Originally posted by illorion

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by JeroKane

You really do not get it do you??

*snip*

Oh I have. But I don't care.

I still think the game looks great and if it was 100% cinematic textures my rig would probably not be able to run it as well. I never even noticed the graphics "change" in a cutscene.

This is what it sounds like to me:

Bioware creates game with high res textures. There are some issues. Only people with uber rigs can run the game maxed out in beta - people complain.

Bioware decides it'd be better to lower the graphics a bit in the open world so that 99% of people can have a better play experience, and still the uber graphics in conversations where the "zoomed in" camera has a big effect.

Due to time constraints, getting the uber high res textures and such back into the game for the 1% with uber rigs is pushed to a "post launch" consideration.

We are now post launch, things are being done to put them back in for peope who can run them.

 

This is a problem why?

If developers told us every change and re-do they made during the development process of the game, we'd get 100 e-mails or more a day.

Was this some conspiracy to dupe people into thinking the game looked better than it did?

NO.

Anyone who thinks so needs to take off the tin foil hat and re-join reality (or join for the first time)

Ahhh i see what you did there.... downplaying the numbers... very crafty.

Okay.... first off its not "they turned the graphics down a LIttle" they turned the graphics down alot... like a whole lot... like the other guy said 50%

Second. Most people who play PC games have decent rigs... thats why they play PC games.... or else they would just play them on console. So its not 1% of people have uber rigs... its more like at least half of PC gamer have good rigs.... you can build a rig to run this game at max for less than 750 bucks. 

Third... those people always had the option to turn down their graphics... i mean fuck the game auto detects your gaphics for you for christ sake.... you know what mine got autodetected too???? MAX

Finally... this wasnt a small change... this wasnt a "hey we changed the dialog on from quest giver X so he sounded less redneck" 

This was "hey you know that red car that you bought form us that you like so much cause its red.... well we are painting it green and always intedned to paint it green from the moment you bought it when it was shiny and red off the lot.... fuck you if you dont like it"

ya being detected as max system setting and having the game unplayable in area is kind of (where can i cool of this RAGE urge!)

Professor78

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by illorion

Ahhh i see what you did there.... downplaying the numbers... very crafty.

Okay.... first off its not "they turned the graphics down a LIttle" they turned the graphics down alot... like a whole lot... like the other guy said 50%

Second. Most people who play PC games have decent rigs... thats why they play PC games.... or else they would just play them on console. So its not 1% of people have uber rigs... its more like at least half of PC gamer have good rigs.... you can build a rig to run this game at max for less than 750 bucks. 

Third... those people always had the option to turn down their graphics... i mean fuck the game auto detects your gaphics for you for christ sake.... you know what mine got autodetected too???? MAX

Finally... this wasnt a small change... this wasnt a "hey we changed the dialog on from quest giver X so he sounded less redneck" 

This was "hey you know that red car that you bought form us that you like so much cause its red.... well we are painting it green and always intedned to paint it green from the moment you bought it when it was shiny and red off the lot.... fuck you if you dont like it"

Little dramatic don't  you think?

I think a more accurate analogy would be that you buy a new shiny waxed red car, drive it home, and when you get out in your drive way and look at it - it's already dirty and has some dirt built up around the wheel wells.

Do you go back to the dealer and say "my car isn't as shiney anymore?!?"

No.

You re-wax it yourself.

Right now, Bioware is applying the post-launch coat of wax.

You're the fool who thought the car would always look as good as it did on the show room floor.

Sorry I seem to be turning into a trolll, but this thread is so funny.

Your analogy is so incorrect, the car dealer shows you a car in the dealership and you love it, when they deliver it to you the following day its not the same... yeah id take it back

Badem

Originally posted by WhiteLantern

Originally posted by Professor78

Game should be offered as free to play until ready then, just like what FFXIV did.

Not sure if trolling, or just........

 

FFXIV shipped missing content. Like, all of it. TOR is missing high-rez textures.

So true,

 

then they added it all back in in such a piecemeal way the game still sucks..

 

But her Patch 2.0 they promise Hi Rez Textures and lots of stuff like that!!!!

BarCrow

False advertising.Heh. They didn't promise shit and these days..a games EULA is basically design to ensure they don't promise you shit even if they say/write something that seems to be the sincere truth.

Get over it. The game still plays great and looks pretty damn good. My Bounty Hunter finally got a sweet looking helmet on Taris too. . Boooyaaa!

pbowman

Doesn't really matter to me, I like the game and still enjoy the graphics.

I'm sure most games had stated something pre-launch and it didn't make it in or was removed and they  never told the players.  I know DAOC did.

My question to the OP, is this the onlly thing you have an issue with about the game?   If i didn't like a game, I would just quit playing.  There are things I don't like about SWTOR, and if it causes me pain and frustration, I will quit and move on.  I don't hate any game.

JeroKane

Originally posted by spaceport

Anyone has the quote of Bioware saying that they DISABLED the high rez textures for the beta because there was a BUG?

 

Another LIE by DLCWARE, and of course, the Biodrones will defend it, no matter what.

 

This!

The issue here is that during a good portion of Closed Beta High Resolution textures and AA was working! Plenty of Beta testers have confirmed this over and over and reported no performance issues whatsoever!

Hell, a lot of beta testers actually say that the performance got a lot worse later in beta with the new "lighter" client with HighRes textures being dissabled!  Go figure!

The point is, that they made a DELIBERATE decision to remove HighRes textures from the game, did not communicate this decision and even went as far as to make people believe it was a bug (like with AA) that would get fixed!

And now, AFTER launch and everyone has PAID for their retail box, they come out and tell us that it was a DELIBERATE decision?

That is what it is about!  Not wether one person cares about graphics and another doesn't!

The fact is that that topic is exploding with angry and upset people is proof enough that plenty of people DO care and feel deceived and lied to!

That is all that matters right now. And now we will have to see how EA/Bioware is going to react on the s-hit storm they just unleased on themselves and if they going to hotfix this TERRIBLE design decision.

Other MMO's have solved this problem by offering a seperate High Res client with a Disclamer "At Own Risk" for people that want it, to download!

LOTRO has offered this, as example, since it's launch back in 2007!!

illorion

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by illorion

Ahhh i see what you did there.... downplaying the numbers... very crafty.

Okay.... first off its not "they turned the graphics down a LIttle" they turned the graphics down alot... like a whole lot... like the other guy said 50%

Second. Most people who play PC games have decent rigs... thats why they play PC games.... or else they would just play them on console. So its not 1% of people have uber rigs... its more like at least half of PC gamer have good rigs.... you can build a rig to run this game at max for less than 750 bucks. 

Third... those people always had the option to turn down their graphics... i mean fuck the game auto detects your gaphics for you for christ sake.... you know what mine got autodetected too???? MAX

Finally... this wasnt a small change... this wasnt a "hey we changed the dialog on from quest giver X so he sounded less redneck" 

This was "hey you know that red car that you bought form us that you like so much cause its red.... well we are painting it green and always intedned to paint it green from the moment you bought it when it was shiny and red off the lot.... fuck you if you dont like it"

Little dramatic don't  you think?

I think a more accurate analogy would be that you buy a new shiny waxed red car, drive it home, and when you get out in your drive way and look at it - it's already dirty and has some dirt built up around the wheel wells.

Do you go back to the dealer and say "my car isn't as shiney anymore?!?"

No.

You re-wax it yourself.

Right now, Bioware is applying the post-launch coat of wax.

You're the fool who thought the car would always look as good as it did on the show room floor.

No see you analogy would be correct if they had just like... turned the shadows down a little. But when they  cut the graphics by that much... i mean they took out and entire setting when there was only three in the first place.... it looks like a completely different game to me. 

Like playing skyrim on console and then playing on PC... they are like two completely different games. 

As a matter of fact that is the perfect anology.... what if you fired up skyrim one day to see they had patched it so now it looked exactly like it does on console... and then you read they intended to do that from the very beginning they just never planned to tell you about it. 

Well dont know about you but I personally would be highly pissed off 

WhiteLantern

Originally posted by BarCrow

False advertising.Heh. That didn't promise shit and these days..a games EULA is basically design to ensure they don't promise you shit even if they say/write something that seems to be the sincere truth.

Get over it. The game still plays great and looks pretty damn good. My Bounty Hunter finally got a sweet looking helmet on Taris too. . Boooyaaa!

Awww, my Trooper still needs a sweet helmet.

Teala

You know what is so damn funny, Bioware was caught lying to their player base and many of them are so blinded by fandom that they do not even know they have been lied to.

EvilGeek

Nothing more than a disappointment for most I'm sure, I'm bored of the game already and disappointed by other things Bioware simply didn't do very well.

The 'UI Glitch' excuse is laughable though, if that was the case why the hell did that glitch make it in to release when it has been such a hot topic?

Lowcaian

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by illorion

Ahhh i see what you did there.... downplaying the numbers... very crafty.

Okay.... first off its not "they turned the graphics down a LIttle" they turned the graphics down alot... like a whole lot... like the other guy said 50%

Second. Most people who play PC games have decent rigs... thats why they play PC games.... or else they would just play them on console. So its not 1% of people have uber rigs... its more like at least half of PC gamer have good rigs.... you can build a rig to run this game at max for less than 750 bucks. 

Third... those people always had the option to turn down their graphics... i mean fuck the game auto detects your gaphics for you for christ sake.... you know what mine got autodetected too???? MAX

Finally... this wasnt a small change... this wasnt a "hey we changed the dialog on from quest giver X so he sounded less redneck" 

This was "hey you know that red car that you bought form us that you like so much cause its red.... well we are painting it green and always intedned to paint it green from the moment you bought it when it was shiny and red off the lot.... fuck you if you dont like it"

Little dramatic don't  you think?

I think a more accurate analogy would be that you buy a new shiny waxed red car, drive it home, and when you get out in your drive way and look at it - it's already dirty and has some dirt built up around the wheel wells.

Do you go back to the dealer and say "my car isn't as shiney anymore?!?"

No.

You re-wax it yourself.

Right now, Bioware is applying the post-launch coat of wax.

You're the fool who thought the car would always look as good as it did on the show room floor.

Are you saying that textures degrade with use and the players should be coders so they can touch them up by themselves?

illorion

Originally posted by drbaltazar

Originally posted by illorion

Originally posted by BadSpock

Originally posted by JeroKane

You really do not get it do you??

*snip*

Ahhh i see what you did there.... downplaying the numbers... very crafty.

Okay.... first off its not "they turned the graphics down a LIttle" they turned the graphics down alot... like a whole lot... like the other guy said 50%

Second. Most people who play PC games have decent rigs... thats why they play PC games.... or else they would just play them on console. So its not 1% of people have uber rigs... its more like at least half of PC gamer have good rigs.... you can build a rig to run this game at max for less than 750 bucks. 

Third... those people always had the option to turn down their graphics... i mean fuck the game auto detects your gaphics for you for christ sake.... you know what mine got autodetected too???? MAX

Finally... this wasnt a small change... this wasnt a "hey we changed the dialog on from quest giver X so he sounded less redneck" 

This was "hey you know that red car that you bought form us that you like so much cause its red.... well we are painting it green and always intedned to paint it green from the moment you bought it when it was shiny and red off the lot.... fuck you if you dont like it"

ya being detected as max system setting and having the game unplayable in area is kind of (where can i cool of this RAGE urge!)

Funny... Mine ran perfectly fine no matter where I went. If it didnt I would have turned them down a little... you know... because Im not retarded

stayontarget

The bottom line is the hero engine is just not up to the task for massively gaming and BW took steps to insure the consumer had a somewhat enjoyable experence.  I'm sure BW consulted with the maker of the engine and they gave recommendations.

The biggest mistake was BW's choosing a game engine that was unproven.  There were signs that the engine had issues during all the live play testing at the conventions way back in 2010 but people shrugged it off as early beta.  Well it appears there will be no magic pill and no large scale player actitivies in the forseeable future (this is a performance issue peeps, not a graphics issue).

BW should have rolled on the UE3 engine in order to bullet proof the game, but instead they rolled the dice on HE.

 

Mundus

The game looks good enough. I don't care if it could look better half the time. If you've bought the game on the account of it having high resolution textures then you've done something wrong IMO.

Paragus1

Originally posted by Teala

You know what is so damn funny, Bioware was caught lying to their player base and many of them are so blinded by fandom that they do not even know they have been lied to.

I'm still sitting over here trying to wrap my mind around the missing LFG tool being spun into building a better community thing.  I do genuinely feel bad for people who threw down big money to build a new system to run this game on max who probably didn't need to.

drbaltazar

Originally posted by stayontarget

The bottom line is the hero engine is just not up to the task for massively gaming and BW took steps to insure the consumer had a somewhat enjoyable experence.  I'm sure BW consulted with the maker of the engine and they gave recommendations.

The biggest mistake was BW's choosing a game engine that was unproven.  There were signs that the engine had issues during all the live play testing at the conventions way back in 2010 but people shrugged it off as early beta.  Well it appears there will be no magic pill and no large scale player actitivies in the forseeable future (this is a performance issue peeps, not a graphics issue).

BW should have rolled on the UE3 engine in order to bullet proof the game, but instead they rolled the dice on HE.

 

this is not even related to the hero engine !this is the whole point why everybody is raging!