People need to do their research a little better, there is a plethora of activities to do in GW2, and people are complaining that No Raids means Less Content? Are you kidding me?!
And for those complaining that ANet will be using Expansions to release new content... Come on now, Really?
ANet will still release updates and patches between their expansions, and they have already stated that a 6 Month Development Cycle is way too stressful for them, because they would have to skip on a lot of content, so expect to see yearly expansions at the least.
WoW does an expansion maybe... once every 2 years? All the while you are paying $15 a month repeating the same old Arena's/Battlegrounds/Raids. And if you actually look at WoW's Patch history, you would notice that most major content patches come every 3 - 6 months.
So let's do a little comparative maths here shall we?
WoW Expansion Cost - $40 (1 XP per 2 Years)
GW2 Expanion Cost - $30 - $40 (1 XP per Year)
WoW Business Model - Box cost $60 + $15/month
GW2 Business Model - B2P Box Cost - $80
WoW Patch Cycle - 3-6 Months ($45-$90)
GW2 Patch Cycle - 3-6 Months (No Cost)
So if we add all that together over the span of 1 Year we get:
WoW + Patches + XP's = $260 (On Average, not including subcription plan discounts)
GW2 + Patches + XP's = $120 (On Average, not including possible RMT's)
So who do you think is getting their money's worth?
And the best thing about GW2; I can experience the whole game from level 2 onwards, instead of waiting till level cap and running the same gear grind over and over...
Suck on them apples.
"The problem with quotes from the Internet is that it's almost impossible to validate their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln
is it cool to hate on raiding nowadays or something ?
I am glad that there is no form of instanced raiding in GW2, but that's only because right now i am raiding in WoW and have been doing that for the past 4 years and im looking for something fresh.
People that say the only hard thing about raiding is gathering the group have honestly never been raiding in a game that takes raiding rather serious. Most raiding fights in WoW are rather complicated to figuire out. It's a puzzle which you need to complete and that sure is allot of fun when you completing those fights one-by-one which your 25 buddy's. People that i raid with in WoW care nothing about gear and we really only get gear so we can beat the upcomming content.
yes it's a carrot on a stick thing but for us raiders it's fine. WoW is a shit MMO but the raiding is simply the best i've seen. I'll be playing Guild Wars for the MMO feel
I wouldn't say people hate raiding because it's cool, because a lot of people here have a valid opinion on the feature and despise the logistics that go into forming a group, for such a goal and repeatedly trying to reap the rewards for their effort.
Like me, I enjoyed my time raiding in Rift, when things went smoothly and I got at least 1 piece of gear out of the encounter, but that only accounted for maybe 5% of my raiding experience. The other 95% involved being pissed off when I wasn't able to raid, because I was 5 - 10mins late, or waiting ages for those extra people to arrive only take have the raid called off. How about feeling unimportant as a DPS'er or that my opinions didn't mean sh*t, because of my lowely status. And then there's the gear grind.
How about feeling unimportant as a DPS'er or that my opinions didn't mean sh*t, because of my lowely status.
That was another problem I had, though it didn't happen frequently. Say I go into a dungeon with a bad tank, who blames me for something even if it wasn't my fault, and gets really rude. Just downright abrasive, as I try to say "Ok let's keep moving". Tank knows the rest of the group won't have to wait long for a dps, so tank requests they all vote to boot me even though I didn't do anything wrong. It was then that I decided to be a tank, but not because I wanted to be, simply because I wouldn't have to worry about not mattering in a group.
How about feeling unimportant as a DPS'er or that my opinions didn't mean sh*t, because of my lowely status.
That was another problem I had, though it didn't happen frequently. Say I go into a dungeon with a bad tank, who blames me for something even if it wasn't my fault, and gets really rude. Just downright abrasive, as I try to say "Ok let's keep moving". Tank knows the rest of the group won't have to wait long for a dps, so tank requests they all vote to boot me even though I didn't do anything wrong. It was then that I decided to be a tank, but not because I wanted to be, simply because I wouldn't have to worry about not mattering in a group.
There's the magic of your "role" system.
Yeah, in Rift I have 1 of every class and here's what I used them as mostly:
Watch this. Note especially the comment by the guide at around 33:30. He explains why this is very similar to a raid (with marked improvements), but out in the world so anyone can do it when it happens. You don't have to spend a couple of hours getting dozens of people together to go to an instance. The fight happens in the open world, and you win or you lose based on the skill and coordination of a group. It can be ad hoc, or it can be a coordinated guild. But the random solo player can see it happened, and feel like a part of it, and that is part of what Anet wants.
If you don't get it after that, you just won't understand the point people are trying to make.
Yeah agree but i would not say the random player can see it happen and be part of it.The random player does more than see it happen,they as involved as any other person their,no guild can claim anything.
That's the great thing about the system that ArenaNet have built.To be frank, if you want epeen raiding then GW2 is not the game for that sort of player/guild.
In reality every single player involved is a solo player even if you are part of a group or with your guild.The only time a group can actually go it alone is in an 5 man instance.
There are raids. Seen how high those dynamic events scale up to? Yeah..some can scale up to extremely high 60+ numbers o.o If those arent raids well...Idk what is.
You just said it! They're dynamic events. However, my pedantry aside, if you wanted to call them raids, it wouldn't really matter to me, but when most people refer to raids, they are specifically talking about the way most MMOs currently out define the term. ANet even states there won't be raids "in the traditional sense". Besides, I always pictured a raid as you know.. a raid on something.. attacking a castle etc. In GW2 it's almost safe to say most of the "raids" come to you.
Kind of takes the control freaks out of it right? The automaton sheeple who feel they have no purpose unless some control freak tells them what time, place, and who does what just to give them some purpose. I mean really, whoever came up with, you need to raid to get the gear you need to go raid with. Some evil twisted sociopath living in his mother basement?
That's why they aren't happy with DE, it take all the control and authoratative perks that come with raids. Like I said, Lord of the Flies live.
Try to understand this from a person who walks into this from a totally ignorant perspective, the first time you get exposed to it, you sit there open jawed and shocked at the sheer illogical nature to it. Raiding, like the holy trinity, are bizarre concepts and quite artificially controlling things.
For me the only legitimate reason to keep Wow type of boss raids is to keep some easy to make weekly events for the guilds. The rest are just not valid reasons in my eyes, since GW2 offer other means to get to similar results, and better means i think.
They are boss fight in GW2, everyone saw them with the DE demos (in fact Boss fight monopolized the whole DE aspect, and i hope DE mean a lot more than just Boss fight), and they are clearly more impressive than any Wow raids, if you want your guild to participate, you'll just have to call them when you see such event happening. Also you'll have "competitive" pve in the dungeons and once more this make so much more sense, its not hard to understand pve can be a lot more interesting in a dungeon setting rather than for a single boss encounter, your AI is so limited by the sinple fact that a Boss is a single bag of hp and only have few minion at best. You can work on so many more things in a dungeon like path, spawn timers, patrols, dimension of rooms... All those stuff are absent of Boss fight. And on top of that you'll have boss in dungeons too, so you loose nothing really here. The dungeon setting is just so much more entertaining to begin with, and can include so much more variables. And a somewhat small group having to really work together just make so much more sense than trying to have a whole guild or alliance work like a single man, especially if you look for efficiency and not just a good moment to gather the guild mates as it used to be pre WOw.
But ye, i guess guilds will have to find an other way to make weekly pve events. Once more that's the only valid reason to ask Wow raids imo. But then again in GW2 you are supposed to participate in events, not create them, because you are not supposed to cut populations and create segregation. But still this reason is valid, it just that that reason don't fit the GW2 concept of "everyone work with each other in a symbiosis" or something to that taste.
Try to understand this from a person who walks into this from a totally ignorant perspective, the first time you get exposed to it, you sit there open jawed and shocked at the sheer illogical nature to it. Raiding, like the holy trinity, are bizarre concepts and quite artificially controlling things.
Their reaction to GW2's DE chains: "But I was standing right here a week ago and I could have sworn there was a boss!! Am I locked out??"
But ye, i guess guilds will have to find an other way to make weekly pve events. Once more that's the only valid reason to ask Wow raids imo. But then again in GW2 you are supposed to participate in events, not create them, because you are not supposed to cut populations and create segregation. But still this reason is valid, it just that that reason don't fit the GW2 concept of "everyone work with each other in a symbiosis" or something to that taste.
Ever think that the whole structure of guilds need to be reexamined. Which I think Anet already understand by allowing you to be in multiple guilds.
Some guilds will be social guilds, some will be event achievment guilds, some will be guilds to deal with DE's just to fight back DE's that alter the world(world raids). Some guilds will striclty PVP guilds. Think about it, in WOW a guild leader was more like an event scheduler. In GW2, you may have some of those, but you will also have some where the leader is just a general calling up troops to put out world fires. Who knows how it all unfolds. Human nature will eventually shape it, Anet seems to be flexible enough to allow that to happen.
Originally posted by Eir_S
Their reaction to GW2's DE chains: "But I was standing right here a week ago and I could have sworn there was a boss!! Am I locked out??"
Can't be the only one who see this as a negative can I?
At the end of the day no raids= Less content to do imo.
Oh, but you have raids. Try to defeat the hard dynamic events and come back.
Those arn't raids.
That would be like calling Heroics in WoW raids.
And you kind of missed my point. No raids=Less content.
Well, I guess DE chains for more than 60 players is bigger than raids then.
Why is no raids less content. Devs can put their time into more meaningful content that not only 5% of the whole playerbase actually plays. Instead they put out one DE every 6 hours for all players out there. Well, you could explain what raids are or what qualifies as raids. With regards to the mechanics of GW2, which are obviously different from WoW, I could put your worries to rest.
No raids equals more content for the entire playerbase.
Take away the crazy amount of developer time that it takes to design, balance and test raid content that is focused at a very small group of players and you have more time for the developers to design content for everyone (crafting, quests, small man dungeons, Classes, pvp, events, zones).
Screw content designed exclusively for big hardcore guilds, if you want that stuff go back and play another game with a raid focus like WoW or Rift.
The only thing i fear is that the big event bosses outdoor will be pretty facerollable. Otherwise the average joe might nog be able to complete it I have done my share of 'looking for raid bosses in WoW'' and im affraid it's going in that direction.
Teqwatil the Sunless (sp?) is one of the games Dynamic Event bosses, which requires 10+ people to defeat and has multiple phases of battle and objectives surrounding him to be completed.
And as one of the videos states, he is one of the smaller dragons...
Now imagine when you get to fight one of the larger dragons, who are the size of -mountains-, no wait scratch that.... the size of -Mountain Ranges- !
See those spikey bits? Thats a sleeping dragon.
See those things in the middle right of the picture? Those are ships.
Yeah...
"The problem with quotes from the Internet is that it's almost impossible to validate their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln
Interesting points even if I think a lot of it is because the game don't have what we usually call "raid gear" as well. It is the raid gear that is what make people bother to gather 25 or 40 players for a dungeon. I think they made the right call.
Well logically doesn't that same gear motivation apply to dungeon grinds as well? It's the same kind of grind, just usually one of them is larger scaled than the other, and sometimes they are also harder. How is that much different though? It's still the gear grind ladies
Originally posted by Bunks Try to understand this from a person who walks into this from a totally ignorant perspective, the first time you get exposed to it, you sit there open jawed and shocked at the sheer illogical nature to it. Raiding, like the holy trinity, are bizarre concepts and quite artificially controlling things.
Their reaction to GW2's DE chains: "But I was standing right here a week ago and I could have sworn there was a boss!! Am I locked out??"
Iam locked out alright!! Because some brats did the cool events in the area, now I am forced to wait for resets... Sounds like a lockout to me ;-(
Originally posted by MMOExposed Originally posted by Eir_S Originally posted by Bunks Try to understand this from a person who walks into this from a totally ignorant perspective, the first time you get exposed to it, you sit there open jawed and shocked at the sheer illogical nature to it. Raiding, like the holy trinity, are bizarre concepts and quite artificially controlling things.
Their reaction to GW2's DE chains: "But I was standing right here a week ago and I could have sworn there was a boss!! Am I locked out??" Iam locked out alright!! Because some brats did the cool events in the area, now I am forced to wait for resets... Sounds like a lockout to me ;-( But when that event cycles round again you aren't going to be locked out because you're the wrong class or because you're the wrong level Instead of waiting for other players to complete the chains to kick it off you can go off and do that other boss that spawned that would normally be out your level range.
Ever think that the whole structure of guilds need to be reexamined. Which I think Anet already understand by allowing you to be in multiple guilds.
Some guilds will be social guilds, some will be event achievment guilds, some will be guilds to deal with DE's just to fight back DE's that alter the world(world raids). Some guilds will striclty PVP guilds. Think about it, in WOW a guild leader was more like an event scheduler. In GW2, you may have some of those, but you will also have some where the leader is just a general calling up troops to put out world fires. Who knows how it all unfolds. Human nature will eventually shape it, Anet seems to be flexible enough to allow that to happen.
You might be right. It is possible that in the future you will be member of merchant crafting guild, a small adventurer guild and a larger guild for PvP.
I can surely see the advantages in both themeparks and sandbox games, right now plenty of people have one character for crafting, one for PvE and one for PvP just so they can get access to the right guild.
But I think many guilds will miss the point and demand that the players only lock themselves to a single guild anyways.
Ever think that the whole structure of guilds need to be reexamined. Which I think Anet already understand by allowing you to be in multiple guilds.
Some guilds will be social guilds, some will be event achievment guilds, some will be guilds to deal with DE's just to fight back DE's that alter the world(world raids). Some guilds will striclty PVP guilds. Think about it, in WOW a guild leader was more like an event scheduler. In GW2, you may have some of those, but you will also have some where the leader is just a general calling up troops to put out world fires. Who knows how it all unfolds. Human nature will eventually shape it, Anet seems to be flexible enough to allow that to happen.
You might be right. It is possible that in the future you will be member of merchant crafting guild, a small adventurer guild and a larger guild for PvP.
I can surely see the advantages in both themeparks and sandbox games, right now plenty of people have one character for crafting, one for PvE and one for PvP just so they can get access to the right guild.
But I think many guilds will miss the point and demand that the players only lock themselves to a single guild anyways.
I hope they won't ask to, and i won't listen them if they do.
Multiple guilds just make sense to me, that's what happen in real world. People stay with others because they share some common occupation, so why lock them into one guild. Imo mmo guild aren't guild. Guild was in Muds, so Uo call them guild and wanted something similar. But failed because mmo aren't set up like Muds, you have no real in game responsibilities and cannot make communities linked to the inside part of the game. Well not as much as it was in Muds at least. In some Muds you had a guy in charge of the ranger guild, the mage guild and the rest.
So in mmo they kind of evolved to me as medieval feudal system, which is really totally different. You have the lord and the vassals and the rest, those are really close minded. Guilds aren't that at all, medieval guilds are about profession like blacksmith or merchant or whatever, those are open minded. You can have few guilds, but belong to only one feudal Lord.
Don't know how they worked on guilds in GW2 tbh, wish i could tell more, but i really like the basic idea, should have always been like this imo. The feudal aspect worked in some game like Lineage, but i didn't like the concept that much, i don't like authority anyway hehe
Can someone explain me the difference between dungeon and a raid?
A dungeon usually have 5 or 6 players, a raid is between 10 and 48.
initially in EQ raids were not strictly bound by numbers of players. guild wars and guild wars 2 have dungeon crawls, and if you think of dungeon/raid in WoW terms then they would be raids. they are not quick consumable, low difficulty content that you run in the morning before school. they take an hour or more to do, and they are hard.
That's not a raid. Time it takes to do something doesn't make it a raid. Since Vanilla WoW dungeons also took hours to do. They were longer than the PvP zone raids! A raid is based on the size of the group. Raids are usually classes as being larger than the standard party size set forth by the game mechanics. For example in WoW, a player party was 5 people. In Oder to add more people, you would need to convert to a raid, meaning more than typical 5 people, sized groups.
That's not a raid. Time it takes to do something doesn't make it a raid. Since Vanilla WoW dungeons also took hours to do. They were longer than the PvP zone raids! A raid is based on the size of the group. Raids are usually classes as being larger than the standard party size set forth by the game mechanics. For example in WoW, a player party was 5 people. In Oder to add more people, you would need to convert to a raid, meaning more than typical 5 people, sized groups.
Yeah, there have been plenty of dungeons for a single group that are harder than many raids.
The real difficulty with most raids is to get a huge group of players together and manage them through a single boss fight or large raid dungeon depending on the purpose of the raid.
EQ2 is a great example of raids,it have both open world raid bosses, small raid instances and huge raid dungeons. A standard party there is 6 players, raids consist of 2 to 6 regular parties.
Edit: I hate my new cheap keyboard, stay away from Media-tech whatever you do.
Ever think that the whole structure of guilds need to be reexamined. Which I think Anet already understand by allowing you to be in multiple guilds.
Some guilds will be social guilds, some will be event achievment guilds, some will be guilds to deal with DE's just to fight back DE's that alter the world(world raids). Some guilds will striclty PVP guilds. Think about it, in WOW a guild leader was more like an event scheduler. In GW2, you may have some of those, but you will also have some where the leader is just a general calling up troops to put out world fires. Who knows how it all unfolds. Human nature will eventually shape it, Anet seems to be flexible enough to allow that to happen.
You might be right. It is possible that in the future you will be member of merchant crafting guild, a small adventurer guild and a larger guild for PvP.
I can surely see the advantages in both themeparks and sandbox games, right now plenty of people have one character for crafting, one for PvE and one for PvP just so they can get access to the right guild.
But I think many guilds will miss the point and demand that the players only lock themselves to a single guild anyways.
I think some will miss the point at the beggining but they'll realize how amazing a tool it is to be able to be in multiple guilds, heck I was thinking of starting a guild to unite everyone on the server for when they want to join WvWvW so that they can join in and be an active part of organized effort to win the battle against other servers whenever they want.
Those kind of guilds honestly make me think of raids though traditional raids are sort of pointless in my opinion it's just a dungeon with a higher difficulty to find people and the be honest it usually just takes longer before starting fights because of everyones personal lives interfering with it.
I think some will miss the point at the beggining but they'll realize how amazing a tool it is to be able to be in multiple guilds, heck I was thinking of starting a guild to unite everyone on the server for when they want to join WvWvW so that they can join in and be an active part of organized effort to win the battle against other servers whenever they want.
Those kind of guilds honestly make me think of raids though traditional raids are sort of pointless in my opinion it's just a dungeon with a higher difficulty to find people and the be honest it usually just takes longer before starting fights because of everyones personal lives interfering with it.
That might be a good idea, or you could have say 2 or 3 guilds with different combat objectives in the Mists.
But the announcements I seen to join guilds so far have all stated that only one guild is acceptable so lets hope people come around.
Ever think that the whole structure of guilds need to be reexamined. Which I think Anet already understand by allowing you to be in multiple guilds.
Some guilds will be social guilds, some will be event achievment guilds, some will be guilds to deal with DE's just to fight back DE's that alter the world(world raids). Some guilds will striclty PVP guilds. Think about it, in WOW a guild leader was more like an event scheduler. In GW2, you may have some of those, but you will also have some where the leader is just a general calling up troops to put out world fires. Who knows how it all unfolds. Human nature will eventually shape it, Anet seems to be flexible enough to allow that to happen.
You might be right. It is possible that in the future you will be member of merchant crafting guild, a small adventurer guild and a larger guild for PvP.
I can surely see the advantages in both themeparks and sandbox games, right now plenty of people have one character for crafting, one for PvE and one for PvP just so they can get access to the right guild.
But I think many guilds will miss the point and demand that the players only lock themselves to a single guild anyways.
I think some will miss the point at the beggining but they'll realize how amazing a tool it is to be able to be in multiple guilds, heck I was thinking of starting a guild to unite everyone on the server for when they want to join WvWvW so that they can join in and be an active part of organized effort to win the battle against other servers whenever they want.
Those kind of guilds honestly make me think of raids though traditional raids are sort of pointless in my opinion it's just a dungeon with a higher difficulty to find people and the be honest it usually just takes longer before starting fights because of everyones personal lives interfering with it.
Exactly my point. The only limit to the way guilds will be setup and used, will be within the limits of the players themselves. Myself personally, I would love to be part of a guild that's number one mission is to scout the world and defend it against changing events(invasions) but at the same time be in a guild that is nothing but people who pride themselves on PVP esports.
Good point i was thinking how it would be nice to actualy make a guild, and don't have to think if it will grow to something or not, but just do what i want to do and don't have to really care. In the one guild setting you really have to make it work, and its a big strees for nothing for a lot of poeple. That remind one of this asian themepark where i had a very strong party group, but everyone was in an other guild, and none would quit his guild and make a new one just because we were partying every night. I really missed to not be able to have multiple guilds back then.
Comments
People need to do their research a little better, there is a plethora of activities to do in GW2, and people are complaining that No Raids means Less Content? Are you kidding me?!
And for those complaining that ANet will be using Expansions to release new content... Come on now, Really?
ANet will still release updates and patches between their expansions, and they have already stated that a 6 Month Development Cycle is way too stressful for them, because they would have to skip on a lot of content, so expect to see yearly expansions at the least.
WoW does an expansion maybe... once every 2 years? All the while you are paying $15 a month repeating the same old Arena's/Battlegrounds/Raids. And if you actually look at WoW's Patch history, you would notice that most major content patches come every 3 - 6 months.
So let's do a little comparative maths here shall we?
WoW Expansion Cost - $40 (1 XP per 2 Years)
GW2 Expanion Cost - $30 - $40 (1 XP per Year)
WoW Business Model - Box cost $60 + $15/month
GW2 Business Model - B2P Box Cost - $80
WoW Patch Cycle - 3-6 Months ($45-$90)
GW2 Patch Cycle - 3-6 Months (No Cost)
So if we add all that together over the span of 1 Year we get:
WoW + Patches + XP's = $260 (On Average, not including subcription plan discounts)
GW2 + Patches + XP's = $120 (On Average, not including possible RMT's)
So who do you think is getting their money's worth?
And the best thing about GW2; I can experience the whole game from level 2 onwards, instead of waiting till level cap and running the same gear grind over and over...
Suck on them apples.
"The problem with quotes from the Internet is that it's almost impossible to validate their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln
I wouldn't say people hate raiding because it's cool, because a lot of people here have a valid opinion on the feature and despise the logistics that go into forming a group, for such a goal and repeatedly trying to reap the rewards for their effort.
Like me, I enjoyed my time raiding in Rift, when things went smoothly and I got at least 1 piece of gear out of the encounter, but that only accounted for maybe 5% of my raiding experience. The other 95% involved being pissed off when I wasn't able to raid, because I was 5 - 10mins late, or waiting ages for those extra people to arrive only take have the raid called off. How about feeling unimportant as a DPS'er or that my opinions didn't mean sh*t, because of my lowely status. And then there's the gear grind.
That was another problem I had, though it didn't happen frequently. Say I go into a dungeon with a bad tank, who blames me for something even if it wasn't my fault, and gets really rude. Just downright abrasive, as I try to say "Ok let's keep moving". Tank knows the rest of the group won't have to wait long for a dps, so tank requests they all vote to boot me even though I didn't do anything wrong. It was then that I decided to be a tank, but not because I wanted to be, simply because I wouldn't have to worry about not mattering in a group.
There's the magic of your "role" system.
Yeah, in Rift I have 1 of every class and here's what I used them as mostly:
Cleric = Healer
Warrior = Tank
Rouge = Tank/Support
Mage = Support/Healer
Get the picture. The magic of the holy trinity
Yeah agree but i would not say the random player can see it happen and be part of it.The random player does more than see it happen,they as involved as any other person their,no guild can claim anything.
That's the great thing about the system that ArenaNet have built.To be frank, if you want epeen raiding then GW2 is not the game for that sort of player/guild.
In reality every single player involved is a solo player even if you are part of a group or with your guild.The only time a group can actually go it alone is in an 5 man instance.
Kind of takes the control freaks out of it right? The automaton sheeple who feel they have no purpose unless some control freak tells them what time, place, and who does what just to give them some purpose. I mean really, whoever came up with, you need to raid to get the gear you need to go raid with. Some evil twisted sociopath living in his mother basement?
That's why they aren't happy with DE, it take all the control and authoratative perks that come with raids. Like I said, Lord of the Flies live.
Try to understand this from a person who walks into this from a totally ignorant perspective, the first time you get exposed to it, you sit there open jawed and shocked at the sheer illogical nature to it. Raiding, like the holy trinity, are bizarre concepts and quite artificially controlling things.
I dont do raiding, and I dont do gear treadmill. Endgame for me is a bit of PvP, then move onto another game.
For me the only legitimate reason to keep Wow type of boss raids is to keep some easy to make weekly events for the guilds. The rest are just not valid reasons in my eyes, since GW2 offer other means to get to similar results, and better means i think.
They are boss fight in GW2, everyone saw them with the DE demos (in fact Boss fight monopolized the whole DE aspect, and i hope DE mean a lot more than just Boss fight), and they are clearly more impressive than any Wow raids, if you want your guild to participate, you'll just have to call them when you see such event happening. Also you'll have "competitive" pve in the dungeons and once more this make so much more sense, its not hard to understand pve can be a lot more interesting in a dungeon setting rather than for a single boss encounter, your AI is so limited by the sinple fact that a Boss is a single bag of hp and only have few minion at best. You can work on so many more things in a dungeon like path, spawn timers, patrols, dimension of rooms... All those stuff are absent of Boss fight. And on top of that you'll have boss in dungeons too, so you loose nothing really here. The dungeon setting is just so much more entertaining to begin with, and can include so much more variables. And a somewhat small group having to really work together just make so much more sense than trying to have a whole guild or alliance work like a single man, especially if you look for efficiency and not just a good moment to gather the guild mates as it used to be pre WOw.
But ye, i guess guilds will have to find an other way to make weekly pve events. Once more that's the only valid reason to ask Wow raids imo. But then again in GW2 you are supposed to participate in events, not create them, because you are not supposed to cut populations and create segregation. But still this reason is valid, it just that that reason don't fit the GW2 concept of "everyone work with each other in a symbiosis" or something to that taste.
Their reaction to GW2's DE chains: "But I was standing right here a week ago and I could have sworn there was a boss!! Am I locked out??"
Ever think that the whole structure of guilds need to be reexamined. Which I think Anet already understand by allowing you to be in multiple guilds.
Some guilds will be social guilds, some will be event achievment guilds, some will be guilds to deal with DE's just to fight back DE's that alter the world(world raids). Some guilds will striclty PVP guilds. Think about it, in WOW a guild leader was more like an event scheduler. In GW2, you may have some of those, but you will also have some where the leader is just a general calling up troops to put out world fires. Who knows how it all unfolds. Human nature will eventually shape it, Anet seems to be flexible enough to allow that to happen.
now you're just being mean
Well, I guess DE chains for more than 60 players is bigger than raids then.
Why is no raids less content. Devs can put their time into more meaningful content that not only 5% of the whole playerbase actually plays. Instead they put out one DE every 6 hours for all players out there. Well, you could explain what raids are or what qualifies as raids. With regards to the mechanics of GW2, which are obviously different from WoW, I could put your worries to rest.
No you have it wrong.
No raids doesn't mean less content.
No raids equals more content for the entire playerbase.
Take away the crazy amount of developer time that it takes to design, balance and test raid content that is focused at a very small group of players and you have more time for the developers to design content for everyone (crafting, quests, small man dungeons, Classes, pvp, events, zones).
Screw content designed exclusively for big hardcore guilds, if you want that stuff go back and play another game with a raid focus like WoW or Rift.
Playing: Nothing
Looking forward to: Nothing
The only thing i fear is that the big event bosses outdoor will be pretty facerollable. Otherwise the average joe might nog be able to complete it
I have done my share of 'looking for raid bosses in WoW'' and im affraid it's going in that direction.
But we'll see what happens.
Teqwatil the Sunless (sp?) is one of the games Dynamic Event bosses, which requires 10+ people to defeat and has multiple phases of battle and objectives surrounding him to be completed.
And as one of the videos states, he is one of the smaller dragons...
Now imagine when you get to fight one of the larger dragons, who are the size of -mountains-, no wait scratch that.... the size of -Mountain Ranges- !
See those spikey bits? Thats a sleeping dragon.
See those things in the middle right of the picture? Those are ships.
Yeah...
"The problem with quotes from the Internet is that it's almost impossible to validate their authenticity." - Abraham Lincoln
Well logically doesn't that same gear motivation apply to dungeon grinds as well? It's the same kind of grind, just usually one of them is larger scaled than the other, and sometimes they are also harder. How is that much different though? It's still the gear grind ladiesPhilosophy of MMO Game Design
Their reaction to GW2's DE chains: "But I was standing right here a week ago and I could have sworn there was a boss!! Am I locked out??"
Iam locked out alright!! Because some brats did the cool events in the area, now I am forced to wait for resets... Sounds like a lockout to me ;-(Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Iam locked out alright!! Because some brats did the cool events in the area, now I am forced to wait for resets... Sounds like a lockout to me ;-(
But when that event cycles round again you aren't going to be locked out because you're the wrong class or because you're the wrong level
Half full or half empty? *grin*
You might be right. It is possible that in the future you will be member of merchant crafting guild, a small adventurer guild and a larger guild for PvP.
I can surely see the advantages in both themeparks and sandbox games, right now plenty of people have one character for crafting, one for PvE and one for PvP just so they can get access to the right guild.
But I think many guilds will miss the point and demand that the players only lock themselves to a single guild anyways.
I hope they won't ask to, and i won't listen them if they do.
Multiple guilds just make sense to me, that's what happen in real world. People stay with others because they share some common occupation, so why lock them into one guild. Imo mmo guild aren't guild. Guild was in Muds, so Uo call them guild and wanted something similar. But failed because mmo aren't set up like Muds, you have no real in game responsibilities and cannot make communities linked to the inside part of the game. Well not as much as it was in Muds at least. In some Muds you had a guy in charge of the ranger guild, the mage guild and the rest.
So in mmo they kind of evolved to me as medieval feudal system, which is really totally different. You have the lord and the vassals and the rest, those are really close minded. Guilds aren't that at all, medieval guilds are about profession like blacksmith or merchant or whatever, those are open minded. You can have few guilds, but belong to only one feudal Lord.
Don't know how they worked on guilds in GW2 tbh, wish i could tell more, but i really like the basic idea, should have always been like this imo. The feudal aspect worked in some game like Lineage, but i didn't like the concept that much, i don't like authority anyway hehe
A dungeon usually have 5 or 6 players, a raid is between 10 and 48.
initially in EQ raids were not strictly bound by numbers of players. guild wars and guild wars 2 have dungeon crawls, and if you think of dungeon/raid in WoW terms then they would be raids. they are not quick consumable, low difficulty content that you run in the morning before school. they take an hour or more to do, and they are hard.
That's not a raid. Time it takes to do something doesn't make it a raid. Since Vanilla WoW dungeons also took hours to do. They were longer than the PvP zone raids! A raid is based on the size of the group. Raids are usually classes as being larger than the standard party size set forth by the game mechanics. For example in WoW, a player party was 5 people. In Oder to add more people, you would need to convert to a raid, meaning more than typical 5 people, sized groups.Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Yeah, there have been plenty of dungeons for a single group that are harder than many raids.
The real difficulty with most raids is to get a huge group of players together and manage them through a single boss fight or large raid dungeon depending on the purpose of the raid.
EQ2 is a great example of raids,it have both open world raid bosses, small raid instances and huge raid dungeons. A standard party there is 6 players, raids consist of 2 to 6 regular parties.
Edit: I hate my new cheap keyboard, stay away from Media-tech whatever you do.
I think some will miss the point at the beggining but they'll realize how amazing a tool it is to be able to be in multiple guilds, heck I was thinking of starting a guild to unite everyone on the server for when they want to join WvWvW so that they can join in and be an active part of organized effort to win the battle against other servers whenever they want.
Those kind of guilds honestly make me think of raids though traditional raids are sort of pointless in my opinion it's just a dungeon with a higher difficulty to find people and the be honest it usually just takes longer before starting fights because of everyones personal lives interfering with it.
That might be a good idea, or you could have say 2 or 3 guilds with different combat objectives in the Mists.
But the announcements I seen to join guilds so far have all stated that only one guild is acceptable so lets hope people come around.
Exactly my point. The only limit to the way guilds will be setup and used, will be within the limits of the players themselves. Myself personally, I would love to be part of a guild that's number one mission is to scout the world and defend it against changing events(invasions) but at the same time be in a guild that is nothing but people who pride themselves on PVP esports.
Good point i was thinking how it would be nice to actualy make a guild, and don't have to think if it will grow to something or not, but just do what i want to do and don't have to really care. In the one guild setting you really have to make it work, and its a big strees for nothing for a lot of poeple. That remind one of this asian themepark where i had a very strong party group, but everyone was in an other guild, and none would quit his guild and make a new one just because we were partying every night. I really missed to not be able to have multiple guilds back then.