They are both theme park clones but RIFT has way more polish and features - plus arguably the best mmo dev team around.
I don't see how anyone could argue that. Their dev team did nothing but release a carbon copy of WoW with half baked features. How is that a good dev team?
So choice between a singleplayer WoW clone, or an even more singleplayer WoW clone... why don't you save money and just play Diablo or something?
Has the MMO genre fallen so far that we're comparing two complete WoW clones and trying to figure out which is better? Neither are worth anyone's times.
[Mod Edit]
Rift has the best implementation of dynamic event public grouping, short of anything that isn't released yet. I'm not sure why people knock rifts and invasions so much - Its been a long time since I've seen so much massively multiplay mayhem in an MMO, so IMHO, they serve their purpose well, and it was a lot of fun.
Er... not so. WAR, AC, Darkfall, DAoC all had better massive world events. Rift's are, like everything in the game, half attempts at copying other games.
They are both theme park clones but RIFT has way more polish and features - plus arguably the best mmo dev team around.
I don't see how anyone could argue that. Their dev team did nothing but release a carbon copy of WoW with half baked features. How is that a good dev team?
And WOW copied from EQI and DAOC. All games take the best and try to make it better. Its too bad WOW is no longer the best! It will go down as EQ did. How many expansions is it for WOW now?
As to Rift, its becoming quite apparent among those who are really into gaming that Rift is becoming the "IN" game. Blizzard only wishes they had a soul system and balance that is in Rift!
Rift, GAME of the YEAR! WOW is now like a retired quarterback who is trying to make that one last ditch effort for a super bowl ring. WOW got theirs. Now its time to move over! Let the new BIG DOG lead the pack!
They are both theme park clones but RIFT has way more polish and features - plus arguably the best mmo dev team around.
I don't see how anyone could argue that. Their dev team did nothing but release a carbon copy of WoW with half baked features. How is that a good dev team?
And WOW copied from EQI and DAOC. All games take the best and try to make it better. Its too bad WOW is no longer the best! It will go down as EQ did. How many expansions is it for WOW now?
Less than most MMOs. Even indie MMOs have more expansions than WoW.
DAoC, EQ, AC, SWG, UO, they all had massive amounts of innovations and improvements. WoW had none. WoW was just a worse, more solo friendly version of EQ, which is against what MMORPGs are all about.
All WoW clones take from the broken WoW formula and fail to improve it, and WoW did the same. There has been about 1 new feature in the last 7 years of MMO development, public quests, and even those were features in old MMOs in the 90s. WoW is stagnant and has never expanded or innovated on any MMO features, same goes for all its immitators. The truly good MMOs created their own things.
Rift has the best implementation of dynamic event public grouping, short of anything that isn't released yet. I'm not sure why people knock rifts and invasions so much - Its been a long time since I've seen so much massively multiplay mayhem in an MMO, so IMHO, they serve their purpose well, and it was a lot of fun.
Er... not so. WAR, AC, Darkfall, DAoC all had better massive world events. Rift's are, like everything in the game, half attempts at copying other games.
Having played three out of those four games, I have to say.. huh? I understand WAR did something similar first, but unlike Rift, they didn't implement it well enough to actually work. DAOC, AC, and Darkfall, though.. no idea where you're coming from with those three.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
DAoC, EQ, AC, SWG, UO, they all had massive amounts of innovations and improvements. WoW had none.
Do you remember what questing was like, before WoW? In any of those five games before it? For better or worse, WoW brought a huge (and extremely successful) change to the very foundation of MMO gameplay.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
DAoC, EQ, AC, SWG, UO, they all had massive amounts of innovations and improvements. WoW had none.
Do you remember what questing was like, before WoW?
Yes, fun. Quests were actually quests. They had variety, they were optional, finding them was usually fun in itself, and the quests were all done in such a different way that it was difficult to become bored with them. Most of them were long, epic, heavy on story that actually mattered to the game world, and gave you a meaningful reward at the end.
WoW quests, are tasks to keep you busy. They're the primary way to level up so theres hundreds of them, with stupid gowing marks over every NPC head. The quests are almost all exactly the same, there are glowing magical lines that tell you exactly where to go and what to do, while quest objectives sparkle like diamonds just in case you're dense enough to miss them, and you HAVE to do them. And the worst offense, they made it so soloing was a lot more benefitial than grouping, hamstringing the core of the MMORPG genre.
Where DAoC's design gave you options and multiple ways to spend your time, WoW gave you 1. But, because WoW's marketing aimed at nonMMO players, that's what we're stuck with now.
DAoC, EQ, AC, SWG, UO, they all had massive amounts of innovations and improvements. WoW had none.
Do you remember what questing was like, before WoW?
Yes, fun. Quests were actually quests. They had variety, they were optional, finding them was usually fun in itself, and the quests were all done in such a different way that it was difficult to become bored with them. Most of them were long, epic, heavy on story that actually mattered to the game world, and gave you a meaningful reward at the end.
WoW quests, are tasks to keep you busy. They're the primary way to level up so theres hundreds of them, with stupid gowing marks over every NPC head. The quests are almost all exactly the same, there are glowing magical lines that tell you exactly where to go and what to do, while quest objectives sparkle like diamonds just in case you're dense enough to miss them, and you HAVE to do them. And the worst offense, they made it so soloing was a lot more benefitial than grouping, hamstringing the core of the MMORPG genre.
Where DAoC's design gave you options and multiple ways to spend your time, WoW gave you 1. But, because WoW's marketing aimed at nonMMO players, that's what we're stuck with now.
I don't disagree with you. I hate quest-grinding and what its done to the genre. I could go on and on about it, but that'd be besides the point. Like it or not, it was a change that WoW brought to the table, and could hardly be called insignificant. None of the games that WoW supposedly copied had questing, the way that WoW does, and almost every MMO since.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
DAoC, EQ, AC, SWG, UO, they all had massive amounts of innovations and improvements. WoW had none.
Do you remember what questing was like, before WoW?
Yes, fun. Quests were actually quests. They had variety, they were optional, finding them was usually fun in itself, and the quests were all done in such a different way that it was difficult to become bored with them. Most of them were long, epic, heavy on story that actually mattered to the game world, and gave you a meaningful reward at the end.
WoW quests, are tasks to keep you busy. They're the primary way to level up so theres hundreds of them, with stupid gowing marks over every NPC head. The quests are almost all exactly the same, there are glowing magical lines that tell you exactly where to go and what to do, while quest objectives sparkle like diamonds just in case you're dense enough to miss them, and you HAVE to do them. And the worst offense, they made it so soloing was a lot more benefitial than grouping, hamstringing the core of the MMORPG genre.
Where DAoC's design gave you options and multiple ways to spend your time, WoW gave you 1. But, because WoW's marketing aimed at nonMMO players, that's what we're stuck with now.
I don't disagree with you. I hate quest-grinding and what its done to the genre. I could go on and on about it, but that'd be besides the point. Like it or not, it was a change that WoW brought to the table, and could hardly be called insignificant. None of the games that WoW supposedly copied had questing, the way that WoW does, and almost every MMO since.
Actually, SWG had quite similar questing, and it wasn't very well liked. It's copied not because its a good system, but because it's easy and WoW is popular (more from marketing than from any other reason). Regardless, I understand what you're trying to argue, but when the only semi-unique thing WoW can claim as its own is a NEGATIVE thing instead of positive... eh, issues.
DAoC, EQ, AC, SWG, UO, they all had massive amounts of innovations and improvements. WoW had none.
Do you remember what questing was like, before WoW?
Yes, fun. Quests were actually quests. They had variety, they were optional, finding them was usually fun in itself, and the quests were all done in such a different way that it was difficult to become bored with them. Most of them were long, epic, heavy on story that actually mattered to the game world, and gave you a meaningful reward at the end.
WoW quests, are tasks to keep you busy. They're the primary way to level up so theres hundreds of them, with stupid gowing marks over every NPC head. The quests are almost all exactly the same, there are glowing magical lines that tell you exactly where to go and what to do, while quest objectives sparkle like diamonds just in case you're dense enough to miss them, and you HAVE to do them. And the worst offense, they made it so soloing was a lot more benefitial than grouping, hamstringing the core of the MMORPG genre.
Where DAoC's design gave you options and multiple ways to spend your time, WoW gave you 1. But, because WoW's marketing aimed at nonMMO players, that's what we're stuck with now.
I don't disagree with you. I hate quest-grinding and what its done to the genre. I could go on and on about it, but that'd be besides the point. Like it or not, it was a change that WoW brought to the table, and could hardly be called insignificant. None of the games that WoW supposedly copied had questing, the way that WoW does, and almost every MMO since.
Actually, SWG had quite similar questing, and it wasn't very well liked. It's copied not because its a good system, but because it's easy and WoW is popular (more from marketing than from any other reason). Regardless, I understand what you're trying to argue, but when the only semi-unique thing WoW can claim as its own is a NEGATIVE thing instead of positive... eh, issues.
MapleStory also had WoW type questing and was released prior to WoW.. time klllers that have you kill x amount of y, etc. i've seen this come up a few times now. people saying WoW contributed so much, but there were a lot of games released prior to WoW. WoW took a lot of the things that people liked from prior mmos/games and tried to refine them to be more updated. this is the same thing that new mmorpgs have been doing and, again, didn't started with WoW.
Actually, SWG had quite similar questing, and it wasn't very well liked. It's copied not because its a good system, but because it's easy and WoW is popular (more from marketing than from any other reason). Regardless, I understand what you're trying to argue, but when the only semi-unique thing WoW can claim as its own is a NEGATIVE thing instead of positive... eh, issues.
MapleStory also had WoW type questing and was released prior to WoW.. time klllers that have you kill x amount of y, etc. i've seen this come up a few times now. people saying WoW contributed so much, but there were a lot of games released prior to WoW. WoW took a lot of the things that people liked from prior mmos/games and tried to refine them to be more updated. this is the same thing that new mmorpgs have been doing and, again, didn't started with WoW.
WoW copied SWG and Maplestory now? Maybe Pac-Man started it all, forcing players to grind white dots to get to next level. Where do you draw the line? People call games WoW clones because they copy things like the quest mechanic almost to the letter. Not because they're just based on similar concepts.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
DAoC, EQ, AC, SWG, UO, they all had massive amounts of innovations and improvements. WoW had none. WoW was just a worse, more solo friendly version of EQ, which is against what MMORPGs are all about.
Battlegrounds, phasing, arena, vehicles, LFD, etc. aren't improvements and innovations, eh?
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
Haters have been repeating this mantra for 6 years now. And WoW is still the most played MMORPG out there. Will you guys ever grow up and admit that all your predictions about WoW failed and all your burning hatred did nothing to undermine its success?
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
DAoC, EQ, AC, SWG, UO, they all had massive amounts of innovations and improvements. WoW had none. WoW was just a worse, more solo friendly version of EQ, which is against what MMORPGs are all about.
Battlegrounds, phasing, arena, vehicles, LFD, etc. aren't improvements and innovations, eh?
considering your name i doubt you have much braincells left, but no they are not they from wow, they have been copied from other games.
also losing more as 5 million subscribers this year alone is barely succesfull /rolls his eyes.
Well, I've played both games and I'm having much more fun in SWToR than I ever had in Rift "long term".
Meaning, if it wasn't for the invasions that we had in Beta I would never have played Rift. When those seemed to change over the course of launch I just quit.
but in reality they are just two different types of games. If one likes the bioware style then that helps.
I would say that if one eschews any of the story in SWToR and just wants to play more "open world" and go exploring, in some cases SWToR wouldn't be able to hold a candle.
oh sure, some of SWToR's worlds are huge but it's sort of hit or miss.
I agree.
Played Rift for awhile, but there was too much kill so many of this then kill the same thing but more of them or something similar.
Don't get me wrong, it is a good game, but it just wasn't for me. The story line in swtor is much better. It actually draws you into the game.
Well, I've played both games and I'm having much more fun in SWToR than I ever had in Rift "long term".
Meaning, if it wasn't for the invasions that we had in Beta I would never have played Rift. When those seemed to change over the course of launch I just quit.
but in reality they are just two different types of games. If one likes the bioware style then that helps.
I would say that if one eschews any of the story in SWToR and just wants to play more "open world" and go exploring, in some cases SWToR wouldn't be able to hold a candle.
oh sure, some of SWToR's worlds are huge but it's sort of hit or miss.
I agree.
Played Rift for awhile, but there was too much kill so many of this then kill the same thing but more of them or something similar.
Don't get me wrong, it is a good game, but it just wasn't for me. The story line in swtor is much better. It actually draws you into the game.
I would agree if most of the cutscenes weren't just voiced out normal quests. I actually feel the overall story of Rift is better than the overall story of SWTOR.
As a clan leader with divisions in both Rift and SW:TOR, Rift has my vote.
We went to Rift as a 'filler' game till SW:TOR, When SWTOR was released we couldn't tear ourselves away from it. So we ended up creating a new division for SW:TOR but i think after our next guild meeting we will disband it and concentrate on Rift.
WoW copied SWG and Maplestory now? Maybe Pac-Man started it all, forcing players to grind white dots to get to next level. Where do you draw the line? People call games WoW clones because they copy things like the quest mechanic almost to the letter. Not because they're just based on similar concepts.
They call it WoW clones because thats the first MMO that the masses experienced, not because WoW invented anything.
It would be like comparing a new burger you tried to a McDonalds burger. Not because McDonalds invented burgers, its just one of the better known producers of it.
WoW copied SWG and Maplestory now? Maybe Pac-Man started it all, forcing players to grind white dots to get to next level. Where do you draw the line? People call games WoW clones because they copy things like the quest mechanic almost to the letter. Not because they're just based on similar concepts.
They call it WoW clones because thats the first MMO that the masses experienced, not because WoW invented anything.
It would be like comparing a new burger you tried to a McDonalds burger. Not because McDonalds invented burgers, its just one of the better known producers of it.
I voted for Rift. They were pretty clever in having a "Play for free this weekend!" event right as the 30 free days of SWTOR expired. Might give Rift another try while I wait for a few more games to come out this year.
I was having a good time in SWTOR until 1.1 hit. Now I just can't bring myself to play. I saw the free weekend for Rift, so I decided to give it a go (nice timing Trion, really smooth move). And I'm actually really enjoying it. Everything seems so polished and stable compared to SWTOR.
I find I don't even miss the voice overs and cutscenes. In fact, it's kind of refreshing without them.
The only thing I miss from SWTOR is the gear modifications. That's really the only thing Bioware got right (regardless of the fact that on a couple rare occasions all of my mods would suddenly disappear from my chest piece).
I checked out Rift during the free weekend and ended up resubscribing to it on Sunday. I am currently subscribed to both, but I find myself playing Rift a lot more.
SWTOR's end game has gotten boring currently I just sit on the republic fleet and queue for experts or warzones.
During my free weekend of Rift I was in a zone when 2 PVP rifts, a Raid Rift, and a fire/earth invasion all spawned at the same time. I had a great next 2 hours battling guardians and rift monsters in the opwn world and it was a lot of fun. Although Rift has its share of instancing with experts and warfronts as well the open world is what is drawing me in and that is something SWTOR doesn't currently have. Illum the one place in the open world which exists currently doesn't work.
Comments
I don't see how anyone could argue that. Their dev team did nothing but release a carbon copy of WoW with half baked features. How is that a good dev team?
Darkfall Travelogues!
Er... not so. WAR, AC, Darkfall, DAoC all had better massive world events. Rift's are, like everything in the game, half attempts at copying other games.
Darkfall Travelogues!
And WOW copied from EQI and DAOC. All games take the best and try to make it better. Its too bad WOW is no longer the best! It will go down as EQ did. How many expansions is it for WOW now?
As to Rift, its becoming quite apparent among those who are really into gaming that Rift is becoming the "IN" game. Blizzard only wishes they had a soul system and balance that is in Rift!
Rift, GAME of the YEAR! WOW is now like a retired quarterback who is trying to make that one last ditch effort for a super bowl ring. WOW got theirs. Now its time to move over! Let the new BIG DOG lead the pack!
Less than most MMOs. Even indie MMOs have more expansions than WoW.
DAoC, EQ, AC, SWG, UO, they all had massive amounts of innovations and improvements. WoW had none. WoW was just a worse, more solo friendly version of EQ, which is against what MMORPGs are all about.
All WoW clones take from the broken WoW formula and fail to improve it, and WoW did the same. There has been about 1 new feature in the last 7 years of MMO development, public quests, and even those were features in old MMOs in the 90s. WoW is stagnant and has never expanded or innovated on any MMO features, same goes for all its immitators. The truly good MMOs created their own things.
Darkfall Travelogues!
Having played three out of those four games, I have to say.. huh? I understand WAR did something similar first, but unlike Rift, they didn't implement it well enough to actually work. DAOC, AC, and Darkfall, though.. no idea where you're coming from with those three.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Do you remember what questing was like, before WoW? In any of those five games before it? For better or worse, WoW brought a huge (and extremely successful) change to the very foundation of MMO gameplay.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Yes, fun. Quests were actually quests. They had variety, they were optional, finding them was usually fun in itself, and the quests were all done in such a different way that it was difficult to become bored with them. Most of them were long, epic, heavy on story that actually mattered to the game world, and gave you a meaningful reward at the end.
WoW quests, are tasks to keep you busy. They're the primary way to level up so theres hundreds of them, with stupid gowing marks over every NPC head. The quests are almost all exactly the same, there are glowing magical lines that tell you exactly where to go and what to do, while quest objectives sparkle like diamonds just in case you're dense enough to miss them, and you HAVE to do them. And the worst offense, they made it so soloing was a lot more benefitial than grouping, hamstringing the core of the MMORPG genre.
Where DAoC's design gave you options and multiple ways to spend your time, WoW gave you 1. But, because WoW's marketing aimed at nonMMO players, that's what we're stuck with now.
Darkfall Travelogues!
I don't disagree with you. I hate quest-grinding and what its done to the genre. I could go on and on about it, but that'd be besides the point. Like it or not, it was a change that WoW brought to the table, and could hardly be called insignificant. None of the games that WoW supposedly copied had questing, the way that WoW does, and almost every MMO since.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Actually, SWG had quite similar questing, and it wasn't very well liked. It's copied not because its a good system, but because it's easy and WoW is popular (more from marketing than from any other reason). Regardless, I understand what you're trying to argue, but when the only semi-unique thing WoW can claim as its own is a NEGATIVE thing instead of positive... eh, issues.
Darkfall Travelogues!
MapleStory also had WoW type questing and was released prior to WoW.. time klllers that have you kill x amount of y, etc. i've seen this come up a few times now. people saying WoW contributed so much, but there were a lot of games released prior to WoW. WoW took a lot of the things that people liked from prior mmos/games and tried to refine them to be more updated. this is the same thing that new mmorpgs have been doing and, again, didn't started with WoW.
WoW copied SWG and Maplestory now? Maybe Pac-Man started it all, forcing players to grind white dots to get to next level. Where do you draw the line? People call games WoW clones because they copy things like the quest mechanic almost to the letter. Not because they're just based on similar concepts.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
Battlegrounds, phasing, arena, vehicles, LFD, etc. aren't improvements and innovations, eh?
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
Haters have been repeating this mantra for 6 years now. And WoW is still the most played MMORPG out there. Will you guys ever grow up and admit that all your predictions about WoW failed and all your burning hatred did nothing to undermine its success?
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
considering your name i doubt you have much braincells left, but no they are not they from wow, they have been copied from other games.
also losing more as 5 million subscribers this year alone is barely succesfull /rolls his eyes.
Clicky for Rift trial
I agree.
Played Rift for awhile, but there was too much kill so many of this then kill the same thing but more of them or something similar.
Don't get me wrong, it is a good game, but it just wasn't for me. The story line in swtor is much better. It actually draws you into the game.
I would agree if most of the cutscenes weren't just voiced out normal quests. I actually feel the overall story of Rift is better than the overall story of SWTOR.
As a clan leader with divisions in both Rift and SW:TOR, Rift has my vote.
We went to Rift as a 'filler' game till SW:TOR, When SWTOR was released we couldn't tear ourselves away from it. So we ended up creating a new division for SW:TOR but i think after our next guild meeting we will disband it and concentrate on Rift.
AbraXuS
www.exile-corp.com
Clan Founder.
They call it WoW clones because thats the first MMO that the masses experienced, not because WoW invented anything.
It would be like comparing a new burger you tried to a McDonalds burger. Not because McDonalds invented burgers, its just one of the better known producers of it.
I wish more people understood this.
Wa min God! Se æx on min heafod is!
Swtor's combat : -1
Rift's combat : +7
Combat is everyhing to me.
I voted for Rift. They were pretty clever in having a "Play for free this weekend!" event right as the 30 free days of SWTOR expired. Might give Rift another try while I wait for a few more games to come out this year.
That is like deciding whether you want constipation or diarrhea.
Neither!
I was having a good time in SWTOR until 1.1 hit. Now I just can't bring myself to play. I saw the free weekend for Rift, so I decided to give it a go (nice timing Trion, really smooth move). And I'm actually really enjoying it. Everything seems so polished and stable compared to SWTOR.
I find I don't even miss the voice overs and cutscenes. In fact, it's kind of refreshing without them.
The only thing I miss from SWTOR is the gear modifications. That's really the only thing Bioware got right (regardless of the fact that on a couple rare occasions all of my mods would suddenly disappear from my chest piece).
I checked out Rift during the free weekend and ended up resubscribing to it on Sunday. I am currently subscribed to both, but I find myself playing Rift a lot more.
SWTOR's end game has gotten boring currently I just sit on the republic fleet and queue for experts or warzones.
During my free weekend of Rift I was in a zone when 2 PVP rifts, a Raid Rift, and a fire/earth invasion all spawned at the same time. I had a great next 2 hours battling guardians and rift monsters in the opwn world and it was a lot of fun. Although Rift has its share of instancing with experts and warfronts as well the open world is what is drawing me in and that is something SWTOR doesn't currently have. Illum the one place in the open world which exists currently doesn't work.