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The reason this game actually needs to fail.
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Yes. And what is wrong with that? You do not need to actually play a game to form an opinion on it. Just like you don't have to watch every crappy Hollywood movie to know that its crap. You can check the director, the actors, the storyline and read a few previews and you can make a pretty good picture of what its like without burning your time and money like the producers would want you to. "Come and see our turd for yourself" We live in an information age and all the info is out there. Create your own picture man.
As for GW2, it could yet turn out to be crap and I'm sure many people wont' like it. And that's ok. We don't all have to be the same people, sheesh. There is no "objectivitiy" in matters of taste and games, like all entertainment, are largely a matter of taste.
Apparently they know more than you and the many armchair devs we have on here.
In Bioware we trust!
You mean sorta like the vocal minority on here.
In Bioware we trust!
According to the state the mmorpg industry is in right now, I highly doubt your statement.
Nah they just had a marketing budget bigger than any PC game ever launched before. You can shovel shit to people easily if you just spend 50 million USD to market it right.
I care about people very much IRL, I work part time helping people off the streets
but I don't feel sorry for gamers that spend that kind of money not knowing what they are getting at all,. If anyone is that stupid now-a-days to buy a MMO they have never played for 150$ they deserve to get the shaft. MMO gamers should realize by now that most MMO's are overhyped themeparks. It still amazes me to this day that people assume a games going to be wonderful just by reading previews and watching game trailers. (You can see them all over gamespot, and youtube) If those people are that stupid they should be getting ripped off, They are the same idiots who believe everything what a polition says and promises on T.V and goes and votes for something they have no clue about. it the same nieve, idiotic ideology
If only you applied this logic to every post of yours. Thanks for the reply though i just wanted to bring out the hypocricy and double standards. All the wisdom comes from your side only when someone mentions GW2.
You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty -- Mahatma Gandhi
People often use that logic but no amount of marketing can make people actually like the game if it is not good. Bad games fail as simple as that. If SWTOR is a bad game no amount of marketing would save it and people would just walk away. Believe it or not but Bioware doesn't have mind control powers and consumers these days can not be fooled.
I read similar reasoning when it coems to WOW and i call BS on that. marketing only helps you to buy the product and has no bearing on you liking or disliking it after the purchase.
You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty -- Mahatma Gandhi
SWTOR is either the prime example of misguided, lazy and stupid design decissions, or a prime example of producer interference (Lucas/EA).
I don't need to be a gamedeveloper to be able to criticize a game and its decissions, just as I don't need to professionally play football to criticize a footballmatch.
This
When I say that something is "crap" I automatically assume that everyone reads this as "crap FOR ME". I never even try to hide behind a mask of "objectivity," unlike some. Imo there is very limited scope for objectivity in entertainment and art, and in computer games "objectivity" usually ends with technical assesment, gfx, bugs and such. Having an opinion is not shameful. Not only that everyone has one, but actually everyone NEEDS to have one.
What I find truly hypocritical is even the pretense of "objectivity" in such matters. "Objectivity" is a term which you can use in natural sciences, period.
That's just silly. No game needs to fail. If SWToR sets the tone for all future games from here on out, it's because that's what people want. If you're* not in the large group of people who want it, well, tough. The world wasn't made to please you. If every game from here on out mimics SWToR, well again, tough. The 'people' have spoken with their wallets. Here's a hint though. New games that come out will have their own ideas on what's going to sell and what they need to do in order to sell their game. They aren't all going to be SWToR, but not in space.
* This is a non-specific 'you'. There is no specific individual intended.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
The games doing absolutely fine.
How can I tell that? Because the same people post the same crap that others have done for years on these forums about WoW, (you know the kind, 'this game isn't innovative!!', 'this games bad for the industry!!!'). Why do some hate WoW so much? Because it doesn't fit in with there own narrow view of what an MMO should be, which is the same thing here. Strangely enough none of those naysayers seemed to kill WoW off, it only grew bigger which means that it appealed to a wider base of people. I would hazard a guess that thats whats probably happening here.
It's fine if you don't like something but somehow I don't think the 12-14 of you who don't like it are going to kill the game off. You just aren't that important, sorry.
This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!
No but it can make the people buy the game.
How many people actually like SWTOR in the long run remains to be seen in the next few months.
I would be surprised if they will include the number of subs in their next quarterly report. Instead I think they will gloat over their massive box sales - which is exactly the stuff they can get with big marketing.
WoW is a lot better game than SWTOR. It isn't innovative, but at least it gets the basics right and feels polished. That's why SWTOR will never threaten the sub numbers of WoW in a significant amount.
There is no "objectively good/bad" but there is "objectively better/worse".
Just because we can't -definitely and conclusively- decide if something is good/bad, doesn't mean we can't argument an objectively better/worse state.
I can't tell you what the -objective- baseline for "healthy" is, but i can tell you right now that smoking will will make you objectively -less- healthy.
This whole "good for you/good for me" debate is stale.
Nope, not really. Not by far.
I can say "I think Phantom Menace is the best movie ever made" and you can't say squat to that. You cannot be "objective" in matters of taste. The best you can do "objectively" is to say "IMDB score shows that many people don't think like you do" and that is it. What you cannot do is say "You are wrong", because objectively, I do subjectively believe that Phantom Menace is the best movie ever made. You might try to change my opinion through your argumentation but it all boils down to "my taste is better than yours" or "conform to the general taste" rather than any "objective facts."
See where it's at?
What relevence does sub numbers have to what I said? For your information WoW was a complete mess when it launched, far worse then SWTOR is now, although times were different then.
The point is this the game appeals to a wider base of people then those who frequent this site. Thus the OPs wish that it'll die to suit he's own view won't happen. I doubt SWTOR will have anything near the sub numbers of WoW, I'm not arguing that, but some of you seem to think the games going to die because 12 other people agree with you on a forum.
This looks like a job for....The Riviera Kid!
You do realize every game isn't for everyone? Whishing it fails so you can have a game you like is really low.
If you don't like a game, then don't play it and move on, but wishing that a game that other people are enjoying needs to fail is selfish and silly, and tbh just weird.
For those that don't enjoy TOR, there are other types of MMO upcoming, and yes, different types of MMO's can be successful next to eachother, no game 'needs to fail' for those other MMO's to be successful.Ah well, at least it's obvious that no objectivity or fairness in judgement should be expected from the OP and those that agree with him in future debates, since it's clear that their agenda and fervent wish to see the game fail no matter what will color all their arguments.
No offense, but it sounds like a case of heartache after getting your hopes up way too high.
It happens. I learned my lesson back when EQ2 was announced. Big disappointment that was.
It's definitely worse than pre-NGE SWG. I got six months from SWG. I didn't get a full month from TOR, in spite of the fact I liked the story and the VO work.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
msg for the OP:
If the game sux...move along and find one you DO like.....there are more then enough "i hate...." threads on these forums.
Dont be bitter......and some advice for the future......dont get all hyped up about a silly game man....not worth it.
No. Because something can objectively be crap and you can like it (i.e. think its the "best ever made"), and you can -also- dislike things that are objectively good.
"Taste" (Opinion) only comes into something when you like or dislike something. I find discussing taste (opinion) to be generally meaningless, unless you are looking for something to validate your own taste or trust someone enough to know they have a similar taste as you.
Opinion is an additional layer to an objective function.
Its just people have a really hard time to understand and separate their opinion from objective arguments.
Move on, don't hate. Hate leads to the dark side woo ooo oooh.