Not particularly. Anyone with enough money and a will to spend it in such a way could do the same thing. Also, holding a world record does not intrinsically confer worthiness or greatness to the people or projects that hold them.
I disagree, how is being the largest voice other production ever in the history of anything not an amazing feat? If not impressive.
Thats like saying any on can make GW2 combat or AA sandbox/theme park hybridness(?) there fore those two things shouldn't matter.
Ok, so I've been lurking on these forums for a few years. I'm an avid gamer and have played EQ, EQ2, WOW exhaustively at the end game/raid. I have dabbled in other MMOs, including SWToR, DAoC, RIFT, AoC, Shadowbane etc. This by no means makes me an authority, but should frame where I am coming from.
Reading the gibberish about voiceover makes me sad. Voiceover is flavor or color, not essence or foundation. If your argument is that Bioware/EA should be recognized in the annals of history as the "best, most lines of text, voice-over MMORPG in history", then I think you have missed the point. The point Msenge is making is that effort is far less remembered than results. I can make the largest ball of string by spending all my money and life on it, but who really gives a shit?
I too have canceled my sub before the end of the first 30 days. I played an Imperial Agent/Sniper to 30. A couple of things that I noticed:
World: beautiful graphics, far clipping planes for great panaoramas, but liefeless
Planets: on rails; I was very disappointed to see just how small the planets were and how much they were the opposite of open-ended from an exploration standpoint.
Crafting: in a word: boring. No interaction: pay cash + wait time = get your items and skillups. I was really hoping for something more rooted in player ability.
On the other side of the coin, the game appeared to be quite polished. I remember thinking to myself on several occasions that for launch, it was going quite smoothly. I did not see anything above level 30 so I cannot comment on end-game as reported by the OP. I found space combat to be fun a few times, but painfully simple and repetitive; the experience reward for the skill required to beat the space missions is out of whack. One round of missions available at level 30 yield at least one-half of a level of experience and can be repeated daily.
I like Star Wars, but as other have mentioned in this thread, I feel we have been sucked in by hype and the SW IP.
In all, I was leary about buying the game on 12/20 but did so anyway. I have yet to decide if it was worth the money. I suppose if you consider I played about 2 full days of game time, that 48 hours of entertainment was certainly worth $60.
(Edit) I forgot to add: innovation. I'm sorry, but I see absolutely nothing new in this game. Every feature of this game has precedence. I really wish they would have dumped this cash into SWG to fix and maintain it, I think we all would have been better off.
I just want to thank you and your guild for rushing to 50 and experiencing all those bugs, complaining about them and waiting for them to get fixed, while I continue to level my 2000 ALTs. Heck, my main is only 47, so I'm guessing I just might make 50 by the time all your hard work finally pays off!
Like Pratticus said. Had they put all that money in rebuilding a up to date SWG (pre-NGE) engine and just build on that we had a much much much better and enjoyable game!
I just want to thank you and your guild for rushing to 50 and experiencing all those bugs, complaining about them and waiting for them to get fixed, while I continue to level my 2000 ALTs. Heck, my main is only 47, so I'm guessing I just might make 50 by the time all your hard work finally pays off!
THANKS!!
Some people like getting to 50 and playing the end game. You like taking it slow. They like taking it fast. Neither is wrong. OP and his guildies should be able to quickly get to the endgame then still have plenty to do, just like you should be able to take it slow and still have plenty to do while doing so. A good mmorpg would be able to accomodate both the slower and quicker levelers. SWTOR right now can't accomodate many of the quicker levelers. It is not the levelers' fault. It is perfectly fine for them to choose their own playstyle. The game developers are at fault here...SWTOR should have an endgame that can provide virtually endless fun, such as in DAOC or UO or EVE, where upon reaching the "end game," the fun has really just begun.
The slower levelers chide those who "rush to the endgame" as if there is a right way and a wrong way to play the game. This is a great example of elitism: "my way to play is right. yours is wrong. you are responsible for and will suffer the consequences of your wrong style of gameplay." The reality is that the mmorpg developer is responsible for shoddy endgame.
I just want to thank you and your guild for rushing to 50 and experiencing all those bugs, complaining about them and waiting for them to get fixed, while I continue to level my 2000 ALTs. Heck, my main is only 47, so I'm guessing I just might make 50 by the time all your hard work finally pays off!
THANKS!!
Some people like getting to 50 and playing the end game. You like taking it slow. They like taking it fast. Neither is wrong. OP and his guildies should be able to quickly get to the endgame then still have plenty to do, just like you should be able to take it slow and still have plenty to do while doing so. A good mmorpg would be able to accomodate both the slower and quicker levelers. SWTOR right now can't accomodate many of the quicker levelers. It is not the levelers' fault. It is perfectly fine for them to choose their own playstyle. The game developers are at fault here...SWTOR should have an endgame that can provide virtually endless fun, such as in DAOC or UO or EVE, where upon reaching the "end game," the fun has really just begun.
The slower levelers chide those who "rush to the endgame" as if there is a right way and a wrong way to play the game. This is a great example of elitism: "my way to play is right. yours is wrong. you are responsible for and will suffer the consequences of your wrong style of gameplay." The reality is that the mmorpg developer is responsible for shoddy endgame.
Just they way it's the players who decide if a game is fun or not!
Some people can tell you that EvE was just so boring. The same could be said about UO. Of course then there is WoW.
Not that I disagree with you but the main chunk of your post is about bugs in the first month of a newly launched mmorpg. Most of us who have played mmorpgs at launch before know to expect those. I agree they are annoying (and very exploitable too sometimes. No doubt with your raiding experience you have noticed bosses respawning now and then?)
I agree that SWTOR is disappointing and lackluster at 50 though and I quit myself after only a week at 50, but bugs were the very least of my reasons. Those always get fixed ... eventually. It's the risk of playing a mmorpg at launch
But poor performance, very little open world endgame content, lack of immersive social environments (really couldn't stand the fleets eventually), disappointing endgame crafting for non-pve'ers and lack of fun world pvp accross the world(s) were much more important to me personally.
You quit? I am surprised.
The areas you talk about are lacking, but they don't deter me because that's not my play style.
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I just want to thank you and your guild for rushing to 50 and experiencing all those bugs, complaining about them and waiting for them to get fixed, while I continue to level my 2000 ALTs. Heck, my main is only 47, so I'm guessing I just might make 50 by the time all your hard work finally pays off!
THANKS!!
Some people like getting to 50 and playing the end game. You like taking it slow. They like taking it fast. Neither is wrong. OP and his guildies should be able to quickly get to the endgame then still have plenty to do, just like you should be able to take it slow and still have plenty to do while doing so. A good mmorpg would be able to accomodate both the slower and quicker levelers. SWTOR right now can't accomodate many of the quicker levelers. It is not the levelers' fault. It is perfectly fine for them to choose their own playstyle. The game developers are at fault here...SWTOR should have an endgame that can provide virtually endless fun, such as in DAOC or UO or EVE, where upon reaching the "end game," the fun has really just begun.
The slower levelers chide those who "rush to the endgame" as if there is a right way and a wrong way to play the game. This is a great example of elitism: "my way to play is right. yours is wrong. you are responsible for and will suffer the consequences of your wrong style of gameplay." The reality is that the mmorpg developer is responsible for shoddy endgame.
Just they way it's the players who decide if a game is fun or not!
Some people can tell you that EvE was just so boring. The same could be said about UO. Of course then there is WoW.
Every game can be boring to someone or fun to another, but EvE has an actual vision for "endgame" wether you agree with that vision is something else entirely. SWTOR however ... can you say huttball? Thats endgame once your through with the bugged instances and got your gear. They don't have an overarching plan for what people do once they are through with the story that can't be summed up in the word "gear treadmill".
Also as much derisement as WoW gets these days, it was a very "complete" game even in vanilla. Not talking about raids or stuff but about things i would call being wellrounded. I mean you could cook, go fishing, cliff diving from darnassus(i managed to jump from darnassus to the shore of auberdine) with or without slow fall(try to hit water) etc, those where fun guildwide events... Or how about the constant battle between Tarrens mill and southshore? I was content to just watch it as a lowlevel ... There is nothing to watch in ToR, everything happens in its own little instance.
The thing is, Blizzard fully intended there to be stuff to do that wasn't productive. Stuff just to pass time, abilities like levitate that allowed you to take a stroll over a lake or the mages ability to conjure food/water, the way you actually had a world to explore and not just places that existed because they where linked to a quest ... It was like a worn out couch that could perfectly mold itself to you, compared to that SWTOR feels like a brandnew designer couch, nice to look at but not really comfortable.
Though i have this complaint with pretty much all the WoW clones, its like they try to copy the meat of WoW but leave the soul behind. Rift probably was the best example for this but Warhammer suffered from it as well. And yeah the last years Blizzard seemed to destroy a big part of their own legacy, about what people loved in WoW.
I just have a feeling ToR is an empty shell, its almost like they had these story ideas and then they created the areas around these quests instead of creating a world and then filling it with stories. Once you did the quests there you have no reason to go there ever again, hell some of the places you can't go ever again because they are in an class instance thats locked to you once completed.
I am pretty sure Onyxia deep breaths more after 1.1 patch.
Seriously tho, anyone expecting this scale of game to be completely bug free game should just unsubscribe and come back after 3-6 months.
I quit classic WoW for a while after the start because the end-game content was buggy to unplayable. Some dungeons could not be completed or had to be reseted few times. People fell through the world, looting was not working, mobs did not take damage or invisible mobs randomly killed people, people DCed randomly from boss events . Etc. Etc. These bugs persisted for a long time.
I think SWTOR has it share of bugs, but wtf did you expect. I was actually surprised how few bugs I encountered during the levelling process. However, have seen few annoyting things after reaching the cap, but nothing that would surprise me and nothing I do not see Bioware fixing in the next few patches.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
At least TOR actually has an end-game at launch. I remember starting wow when it had a handful of 5 man instances, no raids and no pvp zones in vanilla. It was maybe a year before there was anything more to do...
For a new MMORPOG TOR is very polished, a lot of the people complaining were probably never part of an MMO launch before, or are to young to remember older ones.
At least TOR actually has an end-game at launch. I remember starting wow when it had a handful of 5 man instances, no raids and no pvp zones in vanilla. It was maybe a year before there was anything more to do...
For a new MMORPOG TOR is very polished, a lot of the people complaining were probably never part of an MMO launch before, or are to young to remember older ones.
You sound like my gramps talking about the war, so you get the same reply. Maybe the times have changed and people just expect better today? You know the whole learning from the past stuff ...
At least TOR actually has an end-game at launch. I remember starting wow when it had a handful of 5 man instances, no raids and no pvp zones in vanilla. It was maybe a year before there was anything more to do...
For a new MMORPOG TOR is very polished, a lot of the people complaining were probably never part of an MMO launch before, or are to young to remember older ones.
Molten core and onyxia was there at the begining.
Originally posted by Rocketeer
Originally posted by NasherUK
At least TOR actually has an end-game at launch. I remember starting wow when it had a handful of 5 man instances, no raids and no pvp zones in vanilla. It was maybe a year before there was anything more to do...
For a new MMORPOG TOR is very polished, a lot of the people complaining were probably never part of an MMO launch before, or are to young to remember older ones.
You sound like my gramps talking about the war, so you get the same reply. Maybe the times have changed and people just expect better today? You know the whole learning from the past stuff ...
+1. It is 2012, and you can't make 2004 video game in 2012 and sell it. Any market is a tough place, and to get large share of it, you have to either make something new or make old stuff better.
Anything new? certainly not
Better? well pvp isn't, pve isn't
single player? maybe, but hey it's an MMO, not a single player
I do not see that many differences developing games 7-11 years ago and developing then 1-7 years ago. Techonology is going forward, like it has always done, change is constant, but that does not mean that suddenly companies are able to produce bug free systems or software. In fact, if you are developing mission critical software that needs to be bug free, like for example an airtraffic control, the development costs are astronomical in comparison to a normal software project, like games.
We would all like to have bug free phones, computers, software and systems, but the cold hard fact is that when you increase the complexity of a product (like a massive MMO), it will be very hard indeed to produce completely bug free game. And from cost/time perspective it is not even practical.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
I do not see that many differences developing games 7-11 years ago and developing then 1-7 years ago. Techonology is going forward, like it has always done, change is constant, but that does not mean that suddenly companies are able to produce bug free systems or software. In fact, if you are developing mission critical software that needs to be bug free, like for example an airtraffic control, the development costs are astronomical in comparison to a normal software project, like games.
We would all like to have bug free phones, computers, software and systems, but the cold hard fact is that when you increase the complexity of a product (like a massive MMO), it will be very hard indeed to produce completely bug free game. And from cost/time perspective it is not even practical.
Ok, so you can't start new MMO w/o bugs. And current bugs are a surprise, they haven't found them in beta, ok, let buy it.
It is ok for 1 month old mmo, to have no good end game. I guess that majority of subscribers, who are used to pay for end game content pvp or pve should drop it and come later in 3-6 month? first 3-6 month is for die hard fans.
Yep, they were in but as far as playable, that was a whole other story rofl, that launch was terrible ^.^
You guys have no idea about terrible launches.
Ok, i confess i was not at the original UO launch but I bet that you would have heart attacks if that happened now. unplayable lag and reverts.
The Trammel launch I witnessed was fun with 3-4 days of server reverts.
AOS with its 1000 new introduced bugs was also interesting.
Not to say the about 10.000 server crashes Anarchy online had in the first month of the game :P
WOW launch in europa was very smooooth..... but was a few months later than the us one.
SWTOR launch was very good - no crash and burn, but bugs are just bad business, also the too quick levelling curve is not so good for a story driven game
The crux of why people who are paying attention are worried is this -
4 Real Possibilities:
1. Some other fundamental problems are being addressed which are on the brink of surfacing and so are not yet well known but are requiring the tech teams to focus on them.
2. The tech teams are ill-equipped to fix bugs.
3. Bioware is disinterested in having a solid endgame experience.
4. Bioware has the biggest IP, best reputation, etc. and feels they can commence at their own pace and we will hang on regardless. (Guilt as charged. I have not quit yet, despite my own post that I was trying to)
For those of you who say the "$500 Mil" went to the voiceovers (which are indeed pretty good).
Well... If the money went to voiceovers and they are working fine. Then why aren't the resources now be put to bug fixing?
To clarify - ALL of this voiceover work is in the past. Yes they have to record for the future content patches, but it is all set for the current story. IT is not a maintained aspect of the game. It is paid for and done. Time to apply the money/energy elsewhere. Why isn't endgame getting that attention.
TO add to the confusion - WHY did we get the Left 4 Dead content before fixing the old content? We want to finisht he content we have without bugs, we don't want the next course.
So, my chicken is underdone and I can't eat it. What responsible chef would say, "We will get to that. Here is dessert!"? FIx what's here so we have faith and stay. Don't give us more stuff --- and then have IT be bugged - BECAUSE it is! Karraga's palace AND the new Flashpoint both have bugs! Show me you can do it right, let me get the main course done then bring me the next course....
I posted the short letter I was typing in the "reason for quitting" box here a couple days ago.
Funny thing, the "Mass Exodus" to cancel. Which I believe is why I couldn't actually get the site to allow me to quit, ended up giving me time to voice my frustrations here on the forums and also post in my guild forums.
After all that, I didn't quit.
These little things do add up. Not being able to finish a boss despite having beaten the boss. Not getting loot after beating a boss. Not being able to zone in to do one of the few end game hard mode dungeons due to the locked out bug. All of these things detract from the fun, but it is the first month and a day since the official launch.
The funny thing is that my guild and others' are trying to be zen and find balance and one way is just to say, "Okay, if Bioware is stopping us due to their bugs, then we will respond by exploiting theirs". Usually, the fear of being banned or the innate injustice/reduction of the feeling of accomplishment stops real players from doing this.
Hell. Each major endgame patch for WoW there are little cracks that they still need to fill despite the fact that Blizzard has years of history and PHENOMENAL testing. But this is just ridiculous. The endgame experience is a social one but is balanced on this progression or loot treadmill approach. You are basically at the virtual gym talking wiht the gals around you about politics, the new music, what you did last weekend, etc. If the gym you are going to doesn't maintain its equipment and a few of the treadmills are run down, then that's 3 ladies who may or may not be involved in your gabfest. If the gym takes great care of the TVs and equipment and keeps a great aesthetic going but fails to fix the broken toilets and a stink fills the locker room, some of your ladyfriends are going to stop coming.
Well, for a lot of us, we are at that stage about 2 days into a broken shitter where we are goofing about the sign on stall #3. It doesn't quite stink yet, and we know to avoid it. But we are getting a sense that something is rotten in Denmark.
I've been asking for a source on the $500 million number for years, no one has ever been able to provide a credible one, ever. In other words, it's bullshit. The media crazyness about the production costs went like this: $100 million (OMG WTF, big craziness and hate) --> $300 million (EA Louse, admitted he had no idea) --> $500 million (forum bullshit). edit: a recent number by "The Times" is $200 million.
That aside, I haven't played raids, if they're bugged they should be fixed. If I look at patch 1.1.1, I see a lot of bugfixes for the Eternity Vault.
Ilum is bad and should be redesigned completely, period.
In other words, the endgame does leave things to be desired. But between hardmodes and raids being there, and gear being available through PvP, I don't see a shortage of things to grind for those who enjoy to grind things (aka, the people who are complaining about that at this point).
I have to laugh at you completing all content in the game. That's impossible. If anything, TOR is the most content-rich game ever released. It's just that you level up far too quickly. I'm level 50 now and didn't complete ANY of the bonus series and skipped about 50-70% of the world content on several planets.
Originally posted by baritone3k
TO add to the confusion - WHY did we get the Left 4 Dead content before fixing the old content? We want to finisht he content we have without bugs, we don't want the next course.
Listen to the trailer for that flashpoint, they've been working on content patches and expansions while developing the rest for years. Obviously.
If a dev can't work on adding new things and fixing the existing problems at the same time, that's when they should give up imo.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
I've been asking for a source on the $500 million number for years, no one has ever been able to provide a credible one, ever. In other words, it's bullshit. The media crazyness about the production costs went like this: $100 million (OMG WTF, big craziness and hate) --> $300 million (EA Louse, admitted he had no idea) --> $500 million (forum bullshit). edit: a recent number by "The Times" is $200 million.
That aside, I haven't played raids, if they're bugged they should be fixed. If I look at patch 1.1.1, I see a lot of bugfixes for the Eternity Vault.
Ilum is bad and should be redesigned completely, period.
In other words, the endgame does leave things to be desired. But between hardmodes and raids being there, and gear being available through PvP, I don't see a shortage of things to grind for those who enjoy to grind things (aka, the people who are complaining about that at this point).
I have to laugh at you completing all content in the game. That's impossible. If anything, TOR is the most content-rich game ever released. It's just that you level up far too quickly. I'm level 50 now and didn't complete ANY of the bonus series and skipped about 50-70% of the world content on several planets.
Originally posted by baritone3k
TO add to the confusion - WHY did we get the Left 4 Dead content before fixing the old content? We want to finisht he content we have without bugs, we don't want the next course.
Listen to the trailer for that flashpoint, they've been working on content patches and expansions while developing the rest for years. Obviously.
If a dev can't work on adding new things and fixing the existing problems at the same time, that's when they should give up imo.
I skipped Quesh because due to being at the top of Hoth's level guide due to space combat and Flashpoints. I did the bonus missions on more thna half the planets. I listened to/read 95% of the quests. I have experienced the content for a BH and am 43 for a Guardian and 10 for a Marauder now. I can tell you about the game. I played "too much". But since I know how to read and read subtitles, I haven't missed the content. Granted I didn't indulge in listening to every word and pause byt he actors, but I did for the first 20-30 levels of the BH and I listened to the cool stuff. But there is a limit to how much I want to sit and have a sci-fi play act out in front of me. (I stopped playing Metal Gear, because interactive movies are not my thing).
Okay - so it is obvious they have been cooking this new content since well before luanch.. obviously. That has nothing to do with the message it sends when you CANNOT loot the last boss of the EV, the pillars of the 3rd boss are bugged with people coming up with "more dots" kind of attempts to figure out how to get them to not bug, the speederbikes kill you, you randomly die walking around EV - all this and more - but they put out 4 more bosses and a Flashpoint. Which increases the amount of untested/incomplete content in the game. COmplete then move on. Seems to be the consensus from those of us who raid.
As for the notes on the fixes - we were happy to see that they realized that a boss shooting players for 10k in 8 man just doibling that for 16 man made no sense. Seriously. That was the simplistic formula, basically, for the16 man version of the first boss in EV. Hey, Bioware, we have 2x the players... not 2x the health. Thanks.
BUT - BUT
They patch DIDN'T fix it. It SAID it fixed it, but it didn't fix it...
I am pretty sure EA is in Bioware's ear telling them to lie about the state. Or Bioware is growing too big to be good any more. Too many concurrent projects for the great peopel there to keep at the highest level.
Also - I put the "$500 Mil" in quotes, because it is an unverified number.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Originally posted by BilboDoggins First and foremost let me assure you that when I say that SWTOR's endgame is a huge mess I am saying this from experience as myself and my guild are one of the most progressed around. We are 4/5 nightmare mode in EV already and most of us have been level 50 since late december. We have consumed all of the content SWTOR has to offer and what we have experienced is alarming. The flashpoints themselves had (and continue) to have tons of bugs. While some of these have been fixed, the very fact they existed and went live in the firstplace is phenomenal. Until 1.1 3/4 of the flashpoints had unlootable chests. If you managed to beat the instance you would get nothing from most bosses which had chests instead of loot from their bodies. This bug existed for an entire month without Bioware actually addressing it which I find unbelievable. Most companies would have jumped all over a bug like this as soon as it was discovered and had a hotfix out ASAP. bioware however took weeks to finally address this massive issue. then there was the "one of your party is locked to a current flaspoint" bug. This bug made it impossible for a certain person with this bug to enter a flaspoint. The hilarious thing is the bug was able to be passed from one character to another like a disease (this was also the only way to fix it!). To get rid of this bug you would have to figure out who had the bug and have someone else create a lvl 1 alt who you invited to party to pass the bug onto it and then the alt would have it. This bug persisted for weeks! Talk about outrageous. Raids were and continue to be even more of a disaster IMO. There are so many bugs and problems with both raid clusters and each individual fights I will only focus on the most disgusting of them. 1. In Eternity Vault there was a bug with master loot where if the Raid leader had master loot on and went to pass loot out on the corpse most of the loot would disapear! Only commndations and crafting mats and schematics would be on the corpse while set gear and other drops would simply not be there. The only way to work around this is to have to loot by random loot and everyone having to be careful not to roll on something. 2. Bosses would bug out and do all sorts of fun things. The worst involved Gharj. Gharj would bug out and make it so you couldnt re-enter the raid because you were stuck in combat even though noone was in zone. He would then KILL the entire raid while they were outside EV and in the fleet! The only thing you could do was to reset the instance and re-clear 20-30 min of trash. 3. The brand new raid Kraggas palace which just released a few days ago is hilariously bad. First off the very first boss, Bonethrasher cannot be tanked and has a very fast enrage timer which means tanks on the fight are useless. This means most guilds trying to get him in HM/NM mode HAVE to sit out tanks (and often melee DPS due to punishing mechanics) if they wanna kill him. Wats funny is the very next boss fight has two bosses which requires TWO TANKS on HM/NM mode. Better hope your guild has extra people who like sitting outside the zone and wont get to fight certain bosses! Also whoever itemized Kraggas palace has no understanding of the game or is downright lazy as all the bosses in Kraggas commonly drop loot which cannot be used by the classes it goes to (this may just be a normal mode issue though). My Bounty Hunter for example, recieved light armor pants with willpower on them wtf! Does Bioware even test this stuff? 4. Finally the worst raid boss ever created is Soa, the final boss in EV. This may be the single most bugged raid boss I have ever seen. This encounter has so many bugs it would take me 5 pages to explain them all in detail so here are the worst ones. Just last night on hard mode we encountered these ones. After a wipe, sometimes the floor in Soa's room would be half missing and you would have to reset the raid and run back. On the final phase the tank has to kite Soa and get pillars to drop on him so his shield drops and he becomes vunerable. A number of times the pillar would hit him but his shield stayed up! Because of this our guild failed 3 times to Soa and turned what would have been a win into another wipe. We were unable to get beat him because of this garbage yet again. Finally many guilda re reporting Soa after patch 1.1 isnt even dropping loot except for mounts and craft junk. Bioware again is sitting on their hands and taking their sweet time with all of these issue. I wont even get into PvP issues............but I think most of us are aware of the many problems there. There are other things as well which are not quite endgame related but incredibly frustrating. Myself and thousands of others who have high end gaming rigs are getting awful performance in SWTOR. I get 10-20 FPS in places like PvP/fleet even though I have a 6970 for crying out loud! I get 50 FPS minimum on high+ settings in every other game I own (BF3, Witcher 2, Rift) but for some reason I get 10 FPS at times in SWTOR. Pathetic. Lastly, SWTOR is missing the most basic of MMO features like a COMBAT LOG!. What MMO these days releases without a freaking combat log?!!!!! I really wanted this game to be good and I was expecting it to at least be mediocre and be well polished but to my absolute shock SWTOR is probably the most unpolished and buggy MMO I have every played. How could a game with a budget alledgedly topping $200 Million be this bad? HOW? For those of you enjoying the game and planning to stick with it, good luck to you and I applaud your patience. SWTOR isnt without its merits of course but as a whole this is the most disapointing launch I have experienced in my 15 years of MMO gaming.
man i know exactly what you feel about this game: its a huge failure, i returned to AION, right now aion with his fails its years light better game than SWTOR, and PVP do works and in europe it will be F2P , so why in the hell we are paying these kind of bad taste mmo junk?
Errr I didn't say the 500 million went to voice overs. I was talking about the cost of the game, then someone down the road called out my bogus statement and I dug up some information that led to the discovery that, EA aquired Bioware alone for 775 million just to start making this game. That's way more than what I originally heard.
Saying ,"'500 Mil' went voiceovers." was a mistake. I meant to say that the people who say the voiceoves cost so much of the "$500 Mil" now have nothing to stand on when saying that is why they didn't/aren't getting to the bug fixes. That is what I was trying to communicate. Clearly $500 million didn't just go to voiceovers.
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Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
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Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
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Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
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Ok, so I've been lurking on these forums for a few years. I'm an avid gamer and have played EQ, EQ2, WOW exhaustively at the end game/raid. I have dabbled in other MMOs, including SWToR, DAoC, RIFT, AoC, Shadowbane etc. This by no means makes me an authority, but should frame where I am coming from.
Reading the gibberish about voiceover makes me sad. Voiceover is flavor or color, not essence or foundation. If your argument is that Bioware/EA should be recognized in the annals of history as the "best, most lines of text, voice-over MMORPG in history", then I think you have missed the point. The point Msenge is making is that effort is far less remembered than results. I can make the largest ball of string by spending all my money and life on it, but who really gives a shit?
I too have canceled my sub before the end of the first 30 days. I played an Imperial Agent/Sniper to 30. A couple of things that I noticed:
World: beautiful graphics, far clipping planes for great panaoramas, but liefeless
Planets: on rails; I was very disappointed to see just how small the planets were and how much they were the opposite of open-ended from an exploration standpoint.
Crafting: in a word: boring. No interaction: pay cash + wait time = get your items and skillups. I was really hoping for something more rooted in player ability.
On the other side of the coin, the game appeared to be quite polished. I remember thinking to myself on several occasions that for launch, it was going quite smoothly. I did not see anything above level 30 so I cannot comment on end-game as reported by the OP. I found space combat to be fun a few times, but painfully simple and repetitive; the experience reward for the skill required to beat the space missions is out of whack. One round of missions available at level 30 yield at least one-half of a level of experience and can be repeated daily.
I like Star Wars, but as other have mentioned in this thread, I feel we have been sucked in by hype and the SW IP.
In all, I was leary about buying the game on 12/20 but did so anyway. I have yet to decide if it was worth the money. I suppose if you consider I played about 2 full days of game time, that 48 hours of entertainment was certainly worth $60.
(Edit) I forgot to add: innovation. I'm sorry, but I see absolutely nothing new in this game. Every feature of this game has precedence. I really wish they would have dumped this cash into SWG to fix and maintain it, I think we all would have been better off.
This made me laugh.
Like Pratticus said. Had they put all that money in rebuilding a up to date SWG (pre-NGE) engine and just build on that we had a much much much better and enjoyable game!
Some people like getting to 50 and playing the end game. You like taking it slow. They like taking it fast. Neither is wrong. OP and his guildies should be able to quickly get to the endgame then still have plenty to do, just like you should be able to take it slow and still have plenty to do while doing so. A good mmorpg would be able to accomodate both the slower and quicker levelers. SWTOR right now can't accomodate many of the quicker levelers. It is not the levelers' fault. It is perfectly fine for them to choose their own playstyle. The game developers are at fault here...SWTOR should have an endgame that can provide virtually endless fun, such as in DAOC or UO or EVE, where upon reaching the "end game," the fun has really just begun.
The slower levelers chide those who "rush to the endgame" as if there is a right way and a wrong way to play the game. This is a great example of elitism: "my way to play is right. yours is wrong. you are responsible for and will suffer the consequences of your wrong style of gameplay." The reality is that the mmorpg developer is responsible for shoddy endgame.
Just they way it's the players who decide if a game is fun or not!
Some people can tell you that EvE was just so boring. The same could be said about UO. Of course then there is WoW.
You quit? I am surprised.
The areas you talk about are lacking, but they don't deter me because that's not my play style.
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Every game can be boring to someone or fun to another, but EvE has an actual vision for "endgame" wether you agree with that vision is something else entirely. SWTOR however ... can you say huttball? Thats endgame once your through with the bugged instances and got your gear. They don't have an overarching plan for what people do once they are through with the story that can't be summed up in the word "gear treadmill".
Also as much derisement as WoW gets these days, it was a very "complete" game even in vanilla. Not talking about raids or stuff but about things i would call being wellrounded. I mean you could cook, go fishing, cliff diving from darnassus(i managed to jump from darnassus to the shore of auberdine) with or without slow fall(try to hit water) etc, those where fun guildwide events... Or how about the constant battle between Tarrens mill and southshore? I was content to just watch it as a lowlevel ... There is nothing to watch in ToR, everything happens in its own little instance.
The thing is, Blizzard fully intended there to be stuff to do that wasn't productive. Stuff just to pass time, abilities like levitate that allowed you to take a stroll over a lake or the mages ability to conjure food/water, the way you actually had a world to explore and not just places that existed because they where linked to a quest ... It was like a worn out couch that could perfectly mold itself to you, compared to that SWTOR feels like a brandnew designer couch, nice to look at but not really comfortable.
Though i have this complaint with pretty much all the WoW clones, its like they try to copy the meat of WoW but leave the soul behind. Rift probably was the best example for this but Warhammer suffered from it as well. And yeah the last years Blizzard seemed to destroy a big part of their own legacy, about what people loved in WoW.
I just have a feeling ToR is an empty shell, its almost like they had these story ideas and then they created the areas around these quests instead of creating a world and then filling it with stories. Once you did the quests there you have no reason to go there ever again, hell some of the places you can't go ever again because they are in an class instance thats locked to you once completed.
I am pretty sure Onyxia deep breaths more after 1.1 patch.
Seriously tho, anyone expecting this scale of game to be completely bug free game should just unsubscribe and come back after 3-6 months.
I quit classic WoW for a while after the start because the end-game content was buggy to unplayable. Some dungeons could not be completed or had to be reseted few times. People fell through the world, looting was not working, mobs did not take damage or invisible mobs randomly killed people, people DCed randomly from boss events . Etc. Etc. These bugs persisted for a long time.
I think SWTOR has it share of bugs, but wtf did you expect. I was actually surprised how few bugs I encountered during the levelling process. However, have seen few annoyting things after reaching the cap, but nothing that would surprise me and nothing I do not see Bioware fixing in the next few patches.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
At least TOR actually has an end-game at launch. I remember starting wow when it had a handful of 5 man instances, no raids and no pvp zones in vanilla. It was maybe a year before there was anything more to do...
For a new MMORPOG TOR is very polished, a lot of the people complaining were probably never part of an MMO launch before, or are to young to remember older ones.
You sound like my gramps talking about the war, so you get the same reply. Maybe the times have changed and people just expect better today? You know the whole learning from the past stuff ...
Molten core and onyxia was there at the begining.
+1. It is 2012, and you can't make 2004 video game in 2012 and sell it. Any market is a tough place, and to get large share of it, you have to either make something new or make old stuff better.
Anything new? certainly not
Better? well pvp isn't, pve isn't
single player? maybe, but hey it's an MMO, not a single player
I do not see that many differences developing games 7-11 years ago and developing then 1-7 years ago. Techonology is going forward, like it has always done, change is constant, but that does not mean that suddenly companies are able to produce bug free systems or software. In fact, if you are developing mission critical software that needs to be bug free, like for example an airtraffic control, the development costs are astronomical in comparison to a normal software project, like games.
We would all like to have bug free phones, computers, software and systems, but the cold hard fact is that when you increase the complexity of a product (like a massive MMO), it will be very hard indeed to produce completely bug free game. And from cost/time perspective it is not even practical.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
Ok, so you can't start new MMO w/o bugs. And current bugs are a surprise, they haven't found them in beta, ok, let buy it.
It is ok for 1 month old mmo, to have no good end game. I guess that majority of subscribers, who are used to pay for end game content pvp or pve should drop it and come later in 3-6 month? first 3-6 month is for die hard fans.
You guys have no idea about terrible launches.
Ok, i confess i was not at the original UO launch but I bet that you would have heart attacks if that happened now. unplayable lag and reverts.
The Trammel launch I witnessed was fun with 3-4 days of server reverts.
AOS with its 1000 new introduced bugs was also interesting.
Not to say the about 10.000 server crashes Anarchy online had in the first month of the game :P
WOW launch in europa was very smooooth..... but was a few months later than the us one.
SWTOR launch was very good - no crash and burn, but bugs are just bad business, also the too quick levelling curve is not so good for a story driven game
The crux of why people who are paying attention are worried is this -
4 Real Possibilities:
1. Some other fundamental problems are being addressed which are on the brink of surfacing and so are not yet well known but are requiring the tech teams to focus on them.
2. The tech teams are ill-equipped to fix bugs.
3. Bioware is disinterested in having a solid endgame experience.
4. Bioware has the biggest IP, best reputation, etc. and feels they can commence at their own pace and we will hang on regardless. (Guilt as charged. I have not quit yet, despite my own post that I was trying to)
For those of you who say the "$500 Mil" went to the voiceovers (which are indeed pretty good).
Well... If the money went to voiceovers and they are working fine. Then why aren't the resources now be put to bug fixing?
To clarify - ALL of this voiceover work is in the past. Yes they have to record for the future content patches, but it is all set for the current story. IT is not a maintained aspect of the game. It is paid for and done. Time to apply the money/energy elsewhere. Why isn't endgame getting that attention.
TO add to the confusion - WHY did we get the Left 4 Dead content before fixing the old content? We want to finisht he content we have without bugs, we don't want the next course.
So, my chicken is underdone and I can't eat it. What responsible chef would say, "We will get to that. Here is dessert!"? FIx what's here so we have faith and stay. Don't give us more stuff --- and then have IT be bugged - BECAUSE it is! Karraga's palace AND the new Flashpoint both have bugs! Show me you can do it right, let me get the main course done then bring me the next course....
I posted the short letter I was typing in the "reason for quitting" box here a couple days ago.
Funny thing, the "Mass Exodus" to cancel. Which I believe is why I couldn't actually get the site to allow me to quit, ended up giving me time to voice my frustrations here on the forums and also post in my guild forums.
After all that, I didn't quit.
These little things do add up. Not being able to finish a boss despite having beaten the boss. Not getting loot after beating a boss. Not being able to zone in to do one of the few end game hard mode dungeons due to the locked out bug. All of these things detract from the fun, but it is the first month and a day since the official launch.
The funny thing is that my guild and others' are trying to be zen and find balance and one way is just to say, "Okay, if Bioware is stopping us due to their bugs, then we will respond by exploiting theirs". Usually, the fear of being banned or the innate injustice/reduction of the feeling of accomplishment stops real players from doing this.
Hell. Each major endgame patch for WoW there are little cracks that they still need to fill despite the fact that Blizzard has years of history and PHENOMENAL testing. But this is just ridiculous. The endgame experience is a social one but is balanced on this progression or loot treadmill approach. You are basically at the virtual gym talking wiht the gals around you about politics, the new music, what you did last weekend, etc. If the gym you are going to doesn't maintain its equipment and a few of the treadmills are run down, then that's 3 ladies who may or may not be involved in your gabfest. If the gym takes great care of the TVs and equipment and keeps a great aesthetic going but fails to fix the broken toilets and a stink fills the locker room, some of your ladyfriends are going to stop coming.
Well, for a lot of us, we are at that stage about 2 days into a broken shitter where we are goofing about the sign on stall #3. It doesn't quite stink yet, and we know to avoid it. But we are getting a sense that something is rotten in Denmark.
Someone please make a good MMO.
I've been asking for a source on the $500 million number for years, no one has ever been able to provide a credible one, ever. In other words, it's bullshit. The media crazyness about the production costs went like this: $100 million (OMG WTF, big craziness and hate) --> $300 million (EA Louse, admitted he had no idea) --> $500 million (forum bullshit). edit: a recent number by "The Times" is $200 million.
That aside, I haven't played raids, if they're bugged they should be fixed. If I look at patch 1.1.1, I see a lot of bugfixes for the Eternity Vault.
Ilum is bad and should be redesigned completely, period.
In other words, the endgame does leave things to be desired. But between hardmodes and raids being there, and gear being available through PvP, I don't see a shortage of things to grind for those who enjoy to grind things (aka, the people who are complaining about that at this point).
I have to laugh at you completing all content in the game. That's impossible. If anything, TOR is the most content-rich game ever released. It's just that you level up far too quickly. I'm level 50 now and didn't complete ANY of the bonus series and skipped about 50-70% of the world content on several planets.
Listen to the trailer for that flashpoint, they've been working on content patches and expansions while developing the rest for years. Obviously.
If a dev can't work on adding new things and fixing the existing problems at the same time, that's when they should give up imo.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
I skipped Quesh because due to being at the top of Hoth's level guide due to space combat and Flashpoints. I did the bonus missions on more thna half the planets. I listened to/read 95% of the quests. I have experienced the content for a BH and am 43 for a Guardian and 10 for a Marauder now. I can tell you about the game. I played "too much". But since I know how to read and read subtitles, I haven't missed the content. Granted I didn't indulge in listening to every word and pause byt he actors, but I did for the first 20-30 levels of the BH and I listened to the cool stuff. But there is a limit to how much I want to sit and have a sci-fi play act out in front of me. (I stopped playing Metal Gear, because interactive movies are not my thing).
Okay - so it is obvious they have been cooking this new content since well before luanch.. obviously. That has nothing to do with the message it sends when you CANNOT loot the last boss of the EV, the pillars of the 3rd boss are bugged with people coming up with "more dots" kind of attempts to figure out how to get them to not bug, the speederbikes kill you, you randomly die walking around EV - all this and more - but they put out 4 more bosses and a Flashpoint. Which increases the amount of untested/incomplete content in the game. COmplete then move on. Seems to be the consensus from those of us who raid.
As for the notes on the fixes - we were happy to see that they realized that a boss shooting players for 10k in 8 man just doibling that for 16 man made no sense. Seriously. That was the simplistic formula, basically, for the16 man version of the first boss in EV. Hey, Bioware, we have 2x the players... not 2x the health. Thanks.
BUT - BUT
They patch DIDN'T fix it. It SAID it fixed it, but it didn't fix it...
I am pretty sure EA is in Bioware's ear telling them to lie about the state. Or Bioware is growing too big to be good any more. Too many concurrent projects for the great peopel there to keep at the highest level.
Also - I put the "$500 Mil" in quotes, because it is an unverified number.
Someone please make a good MMO.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Saying ,"'500 Mil' went voiceovers." was a mistake. I meant to say that the people who say the voiceoves cost so much of the "$500 Mil" now have nothing to stand on when saying that is why they didn't/aren't getting to the bug fixes. That is what I was trying to communicate. Clearly $500 million didn't just go to voiceovers.
Someone please make a good MMO.
50 since late December eh. After reading that I couldn't take you seriously at all.
You people need to get a life. There is MUCH more to it then MMO's
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.