More Than 1.7 Million Active Subscribers 2/1/12 [EA Conf Call Discussion Thread]

zakiyawow

Originally posted by Baitness

[Mod Edit]  If you believe everything you are told and not just the positive  spin EAs PR can put on it, did you notice that EA is actually recording a net loss of 200+mil for the quarter?  You have to go way down and actually look at the numbers hidden between the assloads of bs and them praising themselves for their so called achievements.

 

 

If an EA employee can convince you that you are playing with almost 2m other people as you wander around your world wondering where the 6 other players on the planet are... you got too many problems for me to help you!

I would blame the net loss on Tiger Woods PGA tour lol.

EA has plenty of games that did not sell well...Tiger Wood being one and others as well. It is a net loss for the whole company not SWTOR as a single product.

Baitness

http://daeity.blogspot.com/2010/08/blizzards-active-subscription-numbers.html

 

This is good reading for starting to understand the level of BS you have to sift through to get to the actual numbers.

 

Zaki I am not implying the loss is because of SWTOR.  I am saying that the people are not able to find the actual information hidden in the mounds of PR spin.

noncley

Hang on...

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ea-beats-targets-on-sales-gain-forecast-off-2012-02-01?link=MW_story_featstor

"The company launched “Star Wars” in late December, and reported it has sold through more than 2 million units of the game and now has about 1.7 million active subscribers playing the online multiplayer title, which Brown said represents a mix of users who already have signed up for a paid subscription and users who have given their credit cards over, but have not yet had their paid plans kick in".

Wait a second, if that's the case, then a proportion of the 1.7 million aren't yet subscribers at all - they have only "signed up for a subscription" (which does not mean they've paid their first month yet) or who "have given their credit cards over" (and also have not yet paid for a month yet).

Umm, unless I am reading this incorrorrectly, it could mean that absolutely 0% are paid subscribers. Now this is obviously NOT the case - that said, I am suggesting that Brown is using this strange, obfuscatory language to disguise the real amount of people who have brought the game and PAID for at least a month of subscription.

Sagasaint

Originally posted by mcburly

Originally posted by Baitness

If you do not understand the word games he is playing it is not my fault.  How do you have to clarify that the majority of the people you include in your numbers are paying customers?  He did not say concurrent subs, he said paying.  As in bought the game.

whatever you gotta keep telling yourself so you can believe that the game is somehow failing bro. lol

see ya in march-april when the first quarter earnings conference lands and they cannot spin anymore, but talk about real amount of active subs.

zakiyawow

Originally posted by Baitness

http://daeity.blogspot.com/2010/08/blizzards-active-subscription-numbers.html

 

This is good reading for starting to understand the level of BS you have to sift through to get to the actual numbers.

 

Zaki I am not implying the loss is because of SWTOR.  I am saying that the people are not able to find the actual information hidden in the mounds of PR spin.

Just want to comment on the blog post you have. The difference between WOW and SWTOR sub number. SWTOR has not launched in China and they dont have hourly pay sub offered.

As the report , I would count those 1.7 million as follow

1. Bought the game and subbed for at least 1 months and not cancelled by today ( the press release date )

2. Bought the game and subbed for 1 month or game card but cancelled ( however, their next billing date is not here yet )

3. Bought the game and on their 30 days free time ( I would think this is not a majority of player )

In the next billing cycle ( for most players ) the number probably would drop but we won't know how much.

However, as today , the currently active sub number is about 1.7 million

 

That's how I read the report

MMOMainiac

Originally posted by MartinZ

Originally posted by Creslin321

It's completely feasible that SWTOR will have 1.7 million subscribers at this point.  

It isn't. EA themselves stated that number includes everyone who has bought the game but haven't unsubbed or had their free month end.

 

That is 100% a lie.

The direct BioWare quote is "We currently have a little over 1.7 million active subscribers. The rest have either not started playing yet or have opted out."  ...which means the 1.7 does NOT include those that unsubbed.

This has been posted like a bazillion times in this thread alone....you are literally ignoring the facts flat out to push your silly agenda...

Clocksimus

Originally posted by noncley

Hang on...

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ea-beats-targets-on-sales-gain-forecast-off-2012-02-01?link=MW_story_featstor

"The company launched “Star Wars” in late December, and reported it has sold through more than 2 million units of the game and now has about 1.7 million active subscribers playing the online multiplayer title, which Brown said represents a mix of users who already have signed up for a paid subscription and users who have given their credit cards over, but have not yet had their paid plans kick in".

Wait a second, if that's the case, then a proportion of the 1.7 million aren't yet subscribers at all - they have only "signed up for a subscription" (which does not mean they've paid their first month yet) or who "have given their credit cards over" (and also have not yet paid for a month yet).

Umm, unless I am reading this incorrorrectly, it could mean that absolutely 0% are paid subscribers. Now this is obviously NOT the case - that said, I am suggesting that Brown is using this strange, obfuscatory language to disguise the real amount of people who have brought the game and PAID for at least a month of subscription.

You are reading it correctly but it's not normal english at all.  It's details without giving any real detail....."represents a mix of users who already have signed up for a paid subscription and users who have given their credit cards over, but have not yet had their paid plans kick in".  Makes zero sense because you can not play SWTOR without an active sub therefore signing up for a sub (his force statement) and handing over your credit card info but not having the plan charge your card yet (second statement) are exactly the same thing.

MMOMainiac

Originally posted by Baitness

This was hilarious - the SWTOR Biodrones come in trumpeting the success until someone notices the little 12/31/11 on the numbers.  What this really says is even in december they had already had about 400k people cancel!

Again..someone completely ignores the fact that in the same announcement, they clarified the 1.7 was in fact as of yesterday, not Dec 31st....ANOTHER fact that was clarified in this same thread multiple times...

/sigh

Ceridith

Most companies count active subscribers as over the past 30 days.

SWTOR released on December 20th, 43 days ago.

All new subs get 30 free days.

In other words, assuming that EA is using the same generic "active subscriber" anytime over the past 30 days metric, that 1.7 million active subscribers includes every single account that has been activated since release, including every single account that has since lapsed from players who did not want to sub past the first month.

Logic is a hell of a thing.

Fly666monkey

Originally posted by noncley

Hang on...

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ea-beats-targets-on-sales-gain-forecast-off-2012-02-01?link=MW_story_featstor

"The company launched “Star Wars” in late December, and reported it has sold through more than 2 million units of the game and now has about 1.7 million active subscribers playing the online multiplayer title, which Brown said represents a mix of users who already have signed up for a paid subscription and users who have given their credit cards over, but have not yet had their paid plans kick in".

Wait a second, if that's the case, then a proportion of the 1.7 million aren't yet subscribers at all - they have only "signed up for a subscription" (which does not mean they've paid their first month yet) or who "have given their credit cards over" (and also have not yet paid for a month yet).

Umm, unless I am reading this incorrorrectly, it could mean that absolutely 0% are paid subscribers. Now this is obviously NOT the case - that said, I am suggesting that Brown is using this strange, obfuscatory language to disguise the real amount of people who have brought the game and PAID for at least a month of subscription.

Good find, sir/madam.

As I suspected, this announcement by EA is nothing but PR spin. Technically, they aren't lying to their stockholders, just misleading them by using impressive sounding numbers and words that are meaningless once you read between the lines.

This is why you ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS fact check, escpecially when the person giving you information likely has an agenda.

The fanboys are going to dismiss this information, of course. I say let 'em, because nothing short of a nuclear explosion will pry those rose colored glasses off them.

MMOMainiac

Originally posted by Clocksimus

Originally posted by noncley

Hang on...

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ea-beats-targets-on-sales-gain-forecast-off-2012-02-01?link=MW_story_featstor

"The company launched “Star Wars” in late December, and reported it has sold through more than 2 million units of the game and now has about 1.7 million active subscribers playing the online multiplayer title, which Brown said represents a mix of users who already have signed up for a paid subscription and users who have given their credit cards over, but have not yet had their paid plans kick in".

Wait a second, if that's the case, then a proportion of the 1.7 million aren't yet subscribers at all - they have only "signed up for a subscription" (which does not mean they've paid their first month yet) or who "have given their credit cards over" (and also have not yet paid for a month yet).

Umm, unless I am reading this incorrorrectly, it could mean that absolutely 0% are paid subscribers. Now this is obviously NOT the case - that said, I am suggesting that Brown is using this strange, obfuscatory language to disguise the real amount of people who have brought the game and PAID for at least a month of subscription.

You are reading it correctly but it's not normal english at all.  It's details without giving any real detail....."represents a mix of users who already have signed up for a paid subscription and users who have given their credit cards over, but have not yet had their paid plans kick in".  Makes zero sense because you can not play SWTOR without an active sub therefore signing up for a sub (his force statement) and handing over your credit card info but not having the plan charge your card yet (second statement) are exactly the same thing.

Stop quoting that, we are already pointed out that MarketShare already misquoted that statement.

Thet ACTUAL BioWare statement was:

"Let me offer some metrics on purchase and subscription that will help you understand this business. As John stated, we have sold through two million units of the game since December. We currently have a little over 1.7 million active subscribers. The rest have either not started playing yet or have opted out."

Which means the 1.7 only includes ppl that paid for and have an active sub as of yesterday (also meaning they subbed past the first "free" month or purchased/subbed to the game well after launch)

And for the love of god, its was NOT Brown that made that statement  (as MarketShare said), it was Frank Gibeau of BioWare...another reason to please stop quoting that incorrect source.

omome

Meh. 800k of TOR's subs are accounts Blizzard bought to astroturf BioWare's official forums.

zakiyawow

Originally posted by Ceridith

Most companies count active subscribers as over the past 30 days.

SWTOR released on December 20th, 43 days ago.

All new subs get 30 free days.

In other words, assuming that EA is using the same generic "active subscriber" anytime over the past 30 days metric, that 1.7 million active subscribers includes every single account that has been activated since release, including every single account that has since lapsed from players who did not want to sub past the first month.

Logic is a hell of a thing.

That's how I read it as well.

I am pretty sure next month will be a different number but we will not know it for sure.

MMOMainiac

Originally posted by Clocksimus

Originally posted by noncley

Hang on...

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ea-beats-targets-on-sales-gain-forecast-off-2012-02-01?link=MW_story_featstor

"The company launched “Star Wars” in late December, and reported it has sold through more than 2 million units of the game and now has about 1.7 million active subscribers playing the online multiplayer title, which Brown said represents a mix of users who already have signed up for a paid subscription and users who have given their credit cards over, but have not yet had their paid plans kick in".

Wait a second, if that's the case, then a proportion of the 1.7 million aren't yet subscribers at all - they have only "signed up for a subscription" (which does not mean they've paid their first month yet) or who "have given their credit cards over" (and also have not yet paid for a month yet).

Umm, unless I am reading this incorrorrectly, it could mean that absolutely 0% are paid subscribers. Now this is obviously NOT the case - that said, I am suggesting that Brown is using this strange, obfuscatory language to disguise the real amount of people who have brought the game and PAID for at least a month of subscription.

You are reading it correctly but it's not normal english at all.  It's details without giving any real detail....."represents a mix of users who already have signed up for a paid subscription and users who have given their credit cards over, but have not yet had their paid plans kick in".  Makes zero sense because you can not play SWTOR without an active sub therefore signing up for a sub (his force statement) and handing over your credit card info but not having the plan charge your card yet (second statement) are exactly the same thing.

Not to beat a dead horse, but its because that wasnt the quote at all, MarketShare completely twisted the actual quote, which i have posted here quite a few times.

Ceridith

Originally posted by MMOMainiac

Originally posted by Clocksimus

Originally posted by noncley

Hang on...

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ea-beats-targets-on-sales-gain-forecast-off-2012-02-01?link=MW_story_featstor

"The company launched “Star Wars” in late December, and reported it has sold through more than 2 million units of the game and now has about 1.7 million active subscribers playing the online multiplayer title, which Brown said represents a mix of users who already have signed up for a paid subscription and users who have given their credit cards over, but have not yet had their paid plans kick in".

Wait a second, if that's the case, then a proportion of the 1.7 million aren't yet subscribers at all - they have only "signed up for a subscription" (which does not mean they've paid their first month yet) or who "have given their credit cards over" (and also have not yet paid for a month yet).

Umm, unless I am reading this incorrorrectly, it could mean that absolutely 0% are paid subscribers. Now this is obviously NOT the case - that said, I am suggesting that Brown is using this strange, obfuscatory language to disguise the real amount of people who have brought the game and PAID for at least a month of subscription.

You are reading it correctly but it's not normal english at all.  It's details without giving any real detail....."represents a mix of users who already have signed up for a paid subscription and users who have given their credit cards over, but have not yet had their paid plans kick in".  Makes zero sense because you can not play SWTOR without an active sub therefore signing up for a sub (his force statement) and handing over your credit card info but not having the plan charge your card yet (second statement) are exactly the same thing.

Stop quoting that, we are already pointed out that MarketShare already misquoted that statement.

Thet ACTUAL BioWare statement was:

"Let me offer some metrics on purchase and subscription that will help you understand this business. As John stated, we have sold through two million units of the game since December. We currently have a little over 1.7 million active subscribers. The rest have either not started playing yet or have opted out."

Which means the 1.7 only includes ppl that paid for and have an active sub as of yesterday (also meaning they subbed past the first "free" month or purchased/subbed to the game well after launch)

If they've sold 2 million units, and have 1.7 million "active" subscribers that are still playing to date of that statement, it would mean that the game has an 85% retentation rate currently... which is too high to be true.

It's far more realistic that those 300k are game boxes that have were sold but aren't "active", are ones that are currently sitting on store shelves and warehouses unsold by retailers and unactivated, and the 1.7 million includes all active subs since release due to the 30 days metric.

MartinZ

Originally posted by noncley

Hang on...

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ea-beats-targets-on-sales-gain-forecast-off-2012-02-01?link=MW_story_featstor

"The company launched “Star Wars” in late December, and reported it has sold through more than 2 million units of the game and now has about 1.7 million active subscribers playing the online multiplayer title, which Brown said represents a mix of users who already have signed up for a paid subscription and users who have given their credit cards over, but have not yet had their paid plans kick in".

Wait a second, if that's the case, then a proportion of the 1.7 million aren't yet subscribers at all - they have only "signed up for a subscription" (which does not mean they've paid their first month yet) or who "have given their credit cards over" (and also have not yet paid for a month yet).

Umm, unless I am reading this incorrorrectly, it could mean that absolutely 0% are paid subscribers. Now this is obviously NOT the case - that said, I am suggesting that Brown is using this strange, obfuscatory language to disguise the real amount of people who have brought the game and PAID for at least a month of subscription.

You're reading it correctly:

 

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ea-beats-targets-on-sales-gain-forecast-off-2012-02-01?link=MW_story_featstor

"now has about 1.7 million active subscribers playing the online multiplayer title, which Brown said represents a mix of users who already have signed up for a paid subscription and users who have given their credit cards over, but have not yet had their paid plans kick in."

 

 

smh_alot

Originally posted by omome

Meh. 800k of TOR's subs are accounts Blizzard bought to astroturf BioWare's official forums.

 

Lol! Too funny ^_^

MMOMainiac

Why are poeple still quoting "which Brown said represents a mix of users who already have signed up for a paid subscription and users who have given their credit cards over, but have not yet had their paid plans kick in"

We ALL know that is not a correct quote, and it certainly did not come from Brown. Please poeple, stop quoting MarketShare's "paraphrase".

Fly666monkey

Originally posted by MMOMainiac

Why are poeple still quoting "which Brown said represents a mix of users who already have signed up for a paid subscription and users who have given their credit cards over, but have not yet had their paid plans kick in"

We ALL know that is not a correct quote, and it certainly did not come from Brown. Please poeple, stop quoting MarketShare's "paraphrase".

And the source that proves that this quote is untrue, if you please?

Ceridith

Originally posted by MMOMainiac

Why are poeple still quoting "which Brown said represents a mix of users who already have signed up for a paid subscription and users who have given their credit cards over, but have not yet had their paid plans kick in"

We ALL know that is not a correct quote, and it certainly did not come from Brown. Please poeple, stop quoting MarketShare's "paraphrase".

Yeah but... you don't get your 30 days free time unless you setup a subscription plan.

I don't even play the game and I know this from reading these forums, when people were bitching they couldn't log in after the head start ended.

MMOMainiac

Originally posted by MartinZ

Originally posted by noncley

Hang on...

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ea-beats-targets-on-sales-gain-forecast-off-2012-02-01?link=MW_story_featstor

"The company launched “Star Wars” in late December, and reported it has sold through more than 2 million units of the game and now has about 1.7 million active subscribers playing the online multiplayer title, which Brown said represents a mix of users who already have signed up for a paid subscription and users who have given their credit cards over, but have not yet had their paid plans kick in".

Wait a second, if that's the case, then a proportion of the 1.7 million aren't yet subscribers at all - they have only "signed up for a subscription" (which does not mean they've paid their first month yet) or who "have given their credit cards over" (and also have not yet paid for a month yet).

Umm, unless I am reading this incorrorrectly, it could mean that absolutely 0% are paid subscribers. Now this is obviously NOT the case - that said, I am suggesting that Brown is using this strange, obfuscatory language to disguise the real amount of people who have brought the game and PAID for at least a month of subscription.

You're reading it correctly:

 

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ea-beats-targets-on-sales-gain-forecast-off-2012-02-01?link=MW_story_featstor

"now has about 1.7 million active subscribers playing the online multiplayer title, which Brown said represents a mix of users who already have signed up for a paid subscription and users who have given their credit cards over, but have not yet had their paid plans kick in."

 

 

Stop quoting that, its not what Brwon said.

The actual quote is "Let me offer some metrics on purchase and subscription that will help you understand this business. As John stated, we have sold through two million units of the game since December. We currently have a little over 1.7 million active subscribers. The rest have either not started playing yet or have opted out."

And was made by Frank Gibeau from BioWare, not Brown.

You know the sad thing? I have already replied to one of your posts correcting you with the actualy truthfull facts, yet you continue to paste the MarketShare misquote over and over on this thread to push you silly agenda.

Its like the more good new comes out about how successfull this game is, the crazier and desprate the haters get, literally ignoring facts over and over.

noncley

Originally posted by MMOMainiac

 

Stop quoting that, we are already pointed out that MarketShare already misquoted that statement.

Thet ACTUAL BioWare statement was:

"Let me offer some metrics on purchase and subscription that will help you understand this business. As John stated, we have sold through two million units of the game since December. We currently have a little over 1.7 million active subscribers. The rest have either not started playing yet or have opted out."

Which means the 1.7 only includes ppl that paid for and have an active sub as of yesterday (also meaning they subbed past the first "free" month or purchased/subbed to the game well after launch)

And for the love of god, its was NOT Brown that made that statement  (as MarketShare said), it was Frank Gibeau of BioWare...another reason to please stop quoting that incorrect source.

I am sorry but that statement does not necessarily mean that at all - ie. it implies but does not definitively say that 1.7 million subscribers have paid for the game, played through the free month and the PAID for at least one month's gameplay. Bioware may want people to believe that but that's not quite what they are saying.

Alders

Simple math dictates that there's no way there are 1.7mil current paying subs. 

Unless somehow this one game managed to buck the trend of retention rate percentages.

Still a nice box sale number though.

Fly666monkey

Originally posted by MMOMainiac

Originally posted by MartinZ

Originally posted by noncley

Hang on...

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ea-beats-targets-on-sales-gain-forecast-off-2012-02-01?link=MW_story_featstor

"The company launched “Star Wars” in late December, and reported it has sold through more than 2 million units of the game and now has about 1.7 million active subscribers playing the online multiplayer title, which Brown said represents a mix of users who already have signed up for a paid subscription and users who have given their credit cards over, but have not yet had their paid plans kick in".

Wait a second, if that's the case, then a proportion of the 1.7 million aren't yet subscribers at all - they have only "signed up for a subscription" (which does not mean they've paid their first month yet) or who "have given their credit cards over" (and also have not yet paid for a month yet).

Umm, unless I am reading this incorrorrectly, it could mean that absolutely 0% are paid subscribers. Now this is obviously NOT the case - that said, I am suggesting that Brown is using this strange, obfuscatory language to disguise the real amount of people who have brought the game and PAID for at least a month of subscription.

You're reading it correctly:

 

http://www.marketwatch.com/story/ea-beats-targets-on-sales-gain-forecast-off-2012-02-01?link=MW_story_featstor

"now has about 1.7 million active subscribers playing the online multiplayer title, which Brown said represents a mix of users who already have signed up for a paid subscription and users who have given their credit cards over, but have not yet had their paid plans kick in."

 

 

Stop quoting that, its not what Brwon said.

The actual quote is "Let me offer some metrics on purchase and subscription that will help you understand this business. As John stated, we have sold through two million units of the game since December. We currently have a little over 1.7 million active subscribers. The rest have either not started playing yet or have opted out."

And was made by Frank Gibeau from BioWare, not Brown.

You know the sad thing? I have already replied to one of your posts correcting you with the actualy truthfull facts, yet you continue to paste the MarketShare misquote over and over on this thread to push you silly agenda.

Its like the more good new comes out about how successfull this game is, the crazier and desprate the haters get, literally ignoring facts over and over.

I'll ask again, what's your source? Prove that what you're saying is true. Otherwise, your argument has no merit.

MMOMainiac

Originally posted by Ceridith

Originally posted by MMOMainiac

Why are poeple still quoting "which Brown said represents a mix of users who already have signed up for a paid subscription and users who have given their credit cards over, but have not yet had their paid plans kick in"

We ALL know that is not a correct quote, and it certainly did not come from Brown. Please poeple, stop quoting MarketShare's "paraphrase".

Yeah but... you don't get your 30 days free time unless you setup a subscription plan.

I don't even play the game and I know this from reading these forums, when people were bitching they couldn't log in after the head start ended.

That has nothing to do with the statement above what so ever. If you subbed (whcih everyone had to), it ended Dec 21st if you didnt resub...the 1.7mil is as of yesterday, well after the end of the first month, which means, stop it