The onus is on the individual ~ google="arenanet+blog" All the researching in the world can still result in "not what I thought it would be like" and deciding you won't order that one again.
Community is probably the a big unknown that might not work for most people or may take some server switching/guilds to find the right match which might be a bridge too far again for some?
As I posted in another thread, I don't understand these over hype concerns...every single person who played loves it, and ANet is keeping all promises. So what's with these paranoid what-if threads?
It isn't really hard to understand peoples doubt in MMOs these days..
The saddest part of games like SWTOR and WAR isn't that they failed, it's that the confidence of games like GW2 has to suffer as a consiquence
Before release, pretty much every person who played SWTOR loved it too. And many still do... I would hardly say it failed with over 1.5 million active subscribers. But I guess we can each have our own definition of failure...
I feel marginally better about the marketing of GW2
Mainly because, unlike every MMO in the past 5 years, they don't need to release 5 Blur studio trailers in order to get people hyped up...
You really think games like SWTOR or Rift could run a successful marketing campaign if they used ONLY in game footage? Please
This makes no sense at all. Rift's footage during prerelease was as good as all in game footage. A CGI tailer is just a CGI trailer, nice for setting the mood, but that's it. I think that it has far less impact on hype than you make it out to be, in fact I think in Rift's case it didn't matter at all, game footage and what people learnt about the game was enough to get people hyped up, including them playing the beta. Like with most MMO's actually.
As for the OP: if it fails to live up to someone's expectations, I gather life goes on, as usual. It's interesting to see if people won't get burnt out after a few months and find out that they can't recapture that ultimate bliss for an MMO long term anymore like they did in the past, bc I'm sure some will. I'm also sure that again others will keep happily playing and have fun for months to years. I think that for those who find out that GW2 in the end doesn't have enough to keep their full attention for more than a few months, they'll still have the choice of a TERA, TSW, ArcheAge, Firefall and Planetside to spend their MMO time with. Sounds like enough new MMO diversity to me.
As I posted in another thread, I don't understand these over hype concerns...every single person who played loves it, and ANet is keeping all promises. So what's with these paranoid what-if threads?
It isn't really hard to understand peoples doubt in MMOs these days..
The saddest part of games like SWTOR and WAR isn't that they failed, it's that the confidence of games like GW2 has to suffer as a consiquence
Before release, pretty much every person who played SWTOR loved it too. And many still do... I would hardly say it failed with over 1.5 million active subscribers. But I guess we can each have our own definition of failure...
GW2 will be lucky to be such a 'failure'...
people saw that crashing and burning long before release. At least those with game insight. Call it the force if you will.
1.5 active huh? Ok, EA investors were told 800k by end of march is eastimated, but we will never know will we.
Before release, pretty much every person who played SWTOR loved it too. And many still do... I would hardly say it failed with over 1.5 million active subscribers. But I guess we can each have our own definition of failure...
GW2 will be lucky to be such a 'failure'...
They had some good press beta reviews, but even the most glowing review had to admit it was imcredibly similar to WoW.
And i remember when a NEGATIVE press review came out about SWTOR. I've never seen such a legion of fan boys attack a website that much in my entire life, so i can understand if reveiwers might say the game is good, even if they don't think so... Same reason Eurogamer COMPLETLY trashed SWTOR, but still gave it an 8/10.
That said, A LOT of players didn't like the beta of SWTOR. Over 1.6 million got into the beta and SWTOR still only sold 2 million copies. To put that into perspective, Warhammer got 600k beta sign ups and sold 1.2 million.
MMOs played: WoW, Star Wars Galaxies, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Guild Wars, Planetside, Global Agenda, Star Trek Online, RIFT, Everquest 2, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, EvE online, APB Best MMO Companies: Trion Worlds, ArenaNet, CCP Worst MMO Companies: Electronic Arts
This makes no sense at all. Rift's footage during prerelease was as good as all in game footage. A CGI tailer is just a CGI trailer, nice for setting the mood, but that's it. I think that it has far less impact on hype than you make it out to be, in fact I think in Rift's case it didn't matter at all, game footage and what people learnt about the game was enough to get people hyped up, including them playing the beta. Like with most MMO's actually.
Don't get me wrong, Rift is a GREAT MMO.
At least Trion has the foresight to copy the GOOD things about WoW, unlike Bioware, who just copy/pasted the awful content and gave us half the features.
That said, I haven't got very far into Rift so maybe it isn't my place to speak. However, I have seen NO "epic" battles in SWTOR that would look good in a marketing campaign. Hell 3 years after they released it, Bioware is STILL using the decieved trailer
MMOs played: WoW, Star Wars Galaxies, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Guild Wars, Planetside, Global Agenda, Star Trek Online, RIFT, Everquest 2, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, EvE online, APB Best MMO Companies: Trion Worlds, ArenaNet, CCP Worst MMO Companies: Electronic Arts
Having realistic expectations would really help. As a pve player primarily my expectations for this game arent sky high. Just hoping it will keep me occupied for a few months.
Before release, pretty much every person who played SWTOR loved it too. And many still do... I would hardly say it failed with over 1.5 million active subscribers. But I guess we can each have our own definition of failure...
GW2 will be lucky to be such a 'failure'...
people saw that crashing and burning long before release. At least those with game insight. Call it the force if you will.
1.5 active huh? Ok, EA investors were told 800k by end of march is eastimated, but we will never know will we.
Credible link please?
I have read multiple articles regarding SWTOR's subscriber numbers and they all say 1.5+ million. Most say 1.7+. I'll be happy to admit I'm wrong if you can provide some proof to back up your claims.
Regardless, we are getting a bit off topic here...
The way I look at it, even if the game some how ends up only being good, rather than great, it will still be better than most MMOs on the market. It's impossible for me to believe this game won't at least be good, based on the game design and what we do know and what we have seen.
The cool thing about this game is that the Buy to Play business model means that if I decide this is only a good game that I'll play casually, rather than a great game I want to sink 40 hrs+ a month into, I can just keep playing it as I please, with out having to worry about a subscription fee.
I was very disappointed with SWTOR, but I would still be playing it on a very casual basis if it had no subscription fee. It's not that it's not worth my time, it's just not worth a monthly fee to me.
But without real progression at max level, many people will leave the game despite teh fact thats the best MMO ever.
I wouldn't be sure of that..
Plenty of people play Call of Duty and there is no progression in it. At least no more progression than is in GW2. And GW1 didn't really have traditional progression and it was a VERY good MMO for it's time... Hell I just got the first and there are tons of people to play with.
I do think a lot of people will need to be deprogrammed for what they think is a real MMO, however.
MMOs played: WoW, Star Wars Galaxies, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Guild Wars, Planetside, Global Agenda, Star Trek Online, RIFT, Everquest 2, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, EvE online, APB Best MMO Companies: Trion Worlds, ArenaNet, CCP Worst MMO Companies: Electronic Arts
I have read multiple articles regarding SWTOR's subscriber numbers and they all say 1.5+ million. Most say 1.7+. I'll be happy to admit I'm wrong if you can provide some proof to back up your claims.
Regardless, we are getting a bit off topic here...
No one really know.
What we do know however is SWTOR can only manage to get 1 full server on the weekends. Does it mean we KNOW SWTOR is tanking? No, but take that for what you will
MMOs played: WoW, Star Wars Galaxies, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Guild Wars, Planetside, Global Agenda, Star Trek Online, RIFT, Everquest 2, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, EvE online, APB Best MMO Companies: Trion Worlds, ArenaNet, CCP Worst MMO Companies: Electronic Arts
Originally posted by smh_alot This makes no sense at all. Rift's footage during prerelease was as good as all in game footage. A CGI tailer is just a CGI trailer, nice for setting the mood, but that's it. I think that it has far less impact on hype than you make it out to be, in fact I think in Rift's case it didn't matter at all, game footage and what people learnt about the game was enough to get people hyped up, including them playing the beta. Like with most MMO's actually.
Don't get me wrong, Rift is a GREAT MMO.
At least Trion has the foresight to copy the GOOD things about WoW, unlike Bioware, who just copy/pasted the awful content and gave us half the features.
That said, I haven't got very far into Rift so maybe it isn't my place to speak. However, I have seen NO "epic" battles in SWTOR that would look good in a marketing campaign. Hell 3 years after they released it, Bioware is STILL using the decieved trailer
While I find this constant TOR bashing kinda distasteful and frankly petty and annoying, I agree that TOR graphics simply don't look that appealing compared to other MMO's. So, visually it just won't astound people unless it's hi-res panoramic shots.
However, the argument of no CGI = good hype and CGI usage = bad hype I find flawed as well. CGI has little to do whether a hype is bad or not: I saw WoW's CGI trailers at its launch and for the Burning Crusade, and they were simply awesome, some of the best I've seen. Still, the hype was justified. Same with GW's Nightfall, CGI trailer looked great but the expansion was very enjoyable as well. Anyway, this was the point I was trying to make. If that's not your viewpoint, well, I agree to disagree then :-)
On a sidenote, I've also watched the CGI trailers for TSW and they were some of the best and most appealing ones for MMO's that I've seen. Yet the game footage so far looked amazing as well. Maybe the hype for TSW will turn out to be bad, who knows, but I'm pretty sure that whether the hype is good or bad has little to do with the use of CGI trailers. imo.
I find it interesting that so many negatives have come up about GW2 and it doesn't seem to phase anyone. Like the fact that we heard there were no mounts, no raids, no seemless world.
What are you talking about? GW2 fans knew that there was gonna be no mounts or raiding from the start. No raiding is probably a big reason why lots of people are interested in this game. You may not like it, but you can hardly call them negatives.
No seemless world on the other hand, is not something i like either. But then again, how much are you going to see those portals anyway?
Before release, pretty much every person who played SWTOR loved it too. And many still do... I would hardly say it failed with over 1.5 million active subscribers. But I guess we can each have our own definition of failure...
GW2 will be lucky to be such a 'failure'...
people saw that crashing and burning long before release. At least those with game insight. Call it the force if you will.
1.5 active huh? Ok, EA investors were told 800k by end of march is eastimated, but we will never know will we.
Credible link please?
I have read multiple articles regarding SWTOR's subscriber numbers and they all say 1.5+ million. Most say 1.7+. I'll be happy to admit I'm wrong if you can provide some proof to back up your claims.
Regardless, we are getting a bit off topic here...
Evan Wilson of Pacific Crest wrote Friday that he has raised his sales estimate for “Star Wars” to 2.2 million units from 1.5 million units for the quarter, and said he remains “comfortable” with his 800,000 subscriber target when the company’s fiscal year ends in late March.
“Admittedly, we set our expectations as if Star Wars was to be a good, not great, MMO,” he wrote. “Fortunately, we think the company did too.”
And that was to quell the panic, ie was supposedly the good news
I find it interesting that so many negatives have come up about GW2 and it doesn't seem to phase anyone. Like the fact that we heard there were no mounts, no raids, no seemless world.
What are you talking about? GW2 fans knew that there was gonna be no mounts or raiding from the start. No raiding is probably a big reason why lots of people are interested in this game. You may not like it, but you can hardly call them negatives.
No seemless world on the other hand, is not something i like either. But then again, how much are you going to see those portals anyway?
I guess we'll see. I've seen numerous threads on this forum with people upset about each of the things I pointed out. And I have seen MANY threads in many different games' forums complaining about the lack of a seamless world. I can pretty much guarantee that people will be upset about these things when they get their hands on the game. Many people will pick up the game expecting things they've gotten used to from other MMOs and they will be disappointed if they don't find them in GW2.
Will it cause major problems for the game? Who knows? We won't until we are all playing it...
I have read multiple articles regarding SWTOR's subscriber numbers and they all say 1.5+ million. Most say 1.7+. I'll be happy to admit I'm wrong if you can provide some proof to back up your claims.
Regardless, we are getting a bit off topic here...
Evan Wilson of Pacific Crest wrote Friday that he has raised his sales estimate for “Star Wars” to 2.2 million units from 1.5 million units for the quarter, and said he remains “comfortable” with his 800,000 subscriber target when the company’s fiscal year ends in late March.
“Admittedly, we set our expectations as if Star Wars was to be a good, not great, MMO,” he wrote. “Fortunately, we think the company did too.”
And that was to quell the panic, ie was supposedly the good news
Who knows if the game will retain those numbers (they rarely do), but even if your estimate of 800k subscribers is true, that is still more successful than almost any other MMORPG. Hopefully we will find out in a month or two.
my eyes will shed a single tear of sadness while my mind goes blank for some seconds. then I rage some hours, not crying this time, and uninstall and tell people what a lie it was.
My problem is not if GW2 will live up to the hype. My real problem is if i have grown to old for the MMO genre in the waiting. That happends some years ago with turn based strategy games, Like the HOMM series. I still like them, i still follow some games when in development, but i for sure can't stand playing a game anymore following that old formular.
I wonder if that will be the same with MMO's. GW2 have all the changes i have been wanting for along time, but is it enough for me to fully dive into a world or am just growing out if the scene. I will soon see, but i know i had enjoyed the wait, following this amazing game, seeing its potential, just not sure that it will be for me. But i know for sure that wasn't it for GW2 i would have left MMO's already .
I find it interesting that so many negatives have come up about GW2 and it doesn't seem to phase anyone. Like the fact that we heard there were no mounts, no raids, no seemless world. That would usually have the community in an uproar around here. I can't decide if its the fact that this game is so over-hyped that some people just refuse to see the potential negatives or if people genuinely don't care about these things...
Personally, I have been around MMORPG.com long enough to know that people here ALWAYS over-hype every new game that comes out and are generally disappointed when they actually get to play it. I doubt this game will be any different, but I will definitely give it a shot to find out for myself.
You know when you get the truth right up front and you get the chance to make peace with it, it becomes a non-issue when someone else who is trying to hurt you with the truth comes in. It's like "Yeap, I heard that, I've discussed it to death and I think I can deal with it". You just don't care anymore because, in the grand scheme of things it's a non-issue.
Comments
The onus is on the individual ~ google="arenanet+blog" All the researching in the world can still result in "not what I thought it would be like" and deciding you won't order that one again.
Community is probably the a big unknown that might not work for most people or may take some server switching/guilds to find the right match which might be a bridge too far again for some?
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
..back to real life?
Before release, pretty much every person who played SWTOR loved it too. And many still do... I would hardly say it failed with over 1.5 million active subscribers. But I guess we can each have our own definition of failure...
GW2 will be lucky to be such a 'failure'...
This makes no sense at all. Rift's footage during prerelease was as good as all in game footage. A CGI tailer is just a CGI trailer, nice for setting the mood, but that's it. I think that it has far less impact on hype than you make it out to be, in fact I think in Rift's case it didn't matter at all, game footage and what people learnt about the game was enough to get people hyped up, including them playing the beta. Like with most MMO's actually.As for the OP: if it fails to live up to someone's expectations, I gather life goes on, as usual. It's interesting to see if people won't get burnt out after a few months and find out that they can't recapture that ultimate bliss for an MMO long term anymore like they did in the past, bc I'm sure some will. I'm also sure that again others will keep happily playing and have fun for months to years. I think that for those who find out that GW2 in the end doesn't have enough to keep their full attention for more than a few months, they'll still have the choice of a TERA, TSW, ArcheAge, Firefall and Planetside to spend their MMO time with. Sounds like enough new MMO diversity to me.
people saw that crashing and burning long before release. At least those with game insight. Call it the force if you will.
1.5 active huh? Ok, EA investors were told 800k by end of march is eastimated, but we will never know will we.
They had some good press beta reviews, but even the most glowing review had to admit it was imcredibly similar to WoW.
And i remember when a NEGATIVE press review came out about SWTOR. I've never seen such a legion of fan boys attack a website that much in my entire life, so i can understand if reveiwers might say the game is good, even if they don't think so... Same reason Eurogamer COMPLETLY trashed SWTOR, but still gave it an 8/10.
That said, A LOT of players didn't like the beta of SWTOR. Over 1.6 million got into the beta and SWTOR still only sold 2 million copies. To put that into perspective, Warhammer got 600k beta sign ups and sold 1.2 million.
MMOs played: WoW, Star Wars Galaxies, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Guild Wars, Planetside, Global Agenda, Star Trek Online, RIFT, Everquest 2, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, EvE online, APB
Best MMO Companies: Trion Worlds, ArenaNet, CCP
Worst MMO Companies: Electronic Arts
Don't get me wrong, Rift is a GREAT MMO.
At least Trion has the foresight to copy the GOOD things about WoW, unlike Bioware, who just copy/pasted the awful content and gave us half the features.
That said, I haven't got very far into Rift so maybe it isn't my place to speak. However, I have seen NO "epic" battles in SWTOR that would look good in a marketing campaign. Hell 3 years after they released it, Bioware is STILL using the decieved trailer
MMOs played: WoW, Star Wars Galaxies, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Guild Wars, Planetside, Global Agenda, Star Trek Online, RIFT, Everquest 2, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, EvE online, APB
Best MMO Companies: Trion Worlds, ArenaNet, CCP
Worst MMO Companies: Electronic Arts
GW2 will live up to the hype at first...
But without real progression at max level, many people will leave the game despite teh fact thats the best MMO ever.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Credible link please?
I have read multiple articles regarding SWTOR's subscriber numbers and they all say 1.5+ million. Most say 1.7+. I'll be happy to admit I'm wrong if you can provide some proof to back up your claims.
Regardless, we are getting a bit off topic here...
then you find something else that peaks your interest, it's just a video game
The way I look at it, even if the game some how ends up only being good, rather than great, it will still be better than most MMOs on the market. It's impossible for me to believe this game won't at least be good, based on the game design and what we do know and what we have seen.
The cool thing about this game is that the Buy to Play business model means that if I decide this is only a good game that I'll play casually, rather than a great game I want to sink 40 hrs+ a month into, I can just keep playing it as I please, with out having to worry about a subscription fee.
I was very disappointed with SWTOR, but I would still be playing it on a very casual basis if it had no subscription fee. It's not that it's not worth my time, it's just not worth a monthly fee to me.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
I wouldn't be sure of that..
Plenty of people play Call of Duty and there is no progression in it. At least no more progression than is in GW2. And GW1 didn't really have traditional progression and it was a VERY good MMO for it's time... Hell I just got the first and there are tons of people to play with.
I do think a lot of people will need to be deprogrammed for what they think is a real MMO, however.
MMOs played: WoW, Star Wars Galaxies, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Guild Wars, Planetside, Global Agenda, Star Trek Online, RIFT, Everquest 2, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, EvE online, APB
Best MMO Companies: Trion Worlds, ArenaNet, CCP
Worst MMO Companies: Electronic Arts
No one really know.
What we do know however is SWTOR can only manage to get 1 full server on the weekends. Does it mean we KNOW SWTOR is tanking? No, but take that for what you will
MMOs played: WoW, Star Wars Galaxies, Star Wars: The Old Republic, Guild Wars, Planetside, Global Agenda, Star Trek Online, RIFT, Everquest 2, Age of Conan, Warhammer Online, EvE online, APB
Best MMO Companies: Trion Worlds, ArenaNet, CCP
Worst MMO Companies: Electronic Arts
Don't get me wrong, Rift is a GREAT MMO.
At least Trion has the foresight to copy the GOOD things about WoW, unlike Bioware, who just copy/pasted the awful content and gave us half the features.
That said, I haven't got very far into Rift so maybe it isn't my place to speak. However, I have seen NO "epic" battles in SWTOR that would look good in a marketing campaign. Hell 3 years after they released it, Bioware is STILL using the decieved trailer
While I find this constant TOR bashing kinda distasteful and frankly petty and annoying, I agree that TOR graphics simply don't look that appealing compared to other MMO's. So, visually it just won't astound people unless it's hi-res panoramic shots.
However, the argument of no CGI = good hype and CGI usage = bad hype I find flawed as well. CGI has little to do whether a hype is bad or not: I saw WoW's CGI trailers at its launch and for the Burning Crusade, and they were simply awesome, some of the best I've seen. Still, the hype was justified. Same with GW's Nightfall, CGI trailer looked great but the expansion was very enjoyable as well. Anyway, this was the point I was trying to make. If that's not your viewpoint, well, I agree to disagree then :-)
On a sidenote, I've also watched the CGI trailers for TSW and they were some of the best and most appealing ones for MMO's that I've seen. Yet the game footage so far looked amazing as well. Maybe the hype for TSW will turn out to be bad, who knows, but I'm pretty sure that whether the hype is good or bad has little to do with the use of CGI trailers. imo.Wait for the next MMO! There's always another one released just around the corner.
Enter a whole new realm of challenge and adventure.
Goddamn awesome oneliner :-)+1
It already has, you just need a little less sanity to see it.
This is not a game.
What are you talking about? GW2 fans knew that there was gonna be no mounts or raiding from the start. No raiding is probably a big reason why lots of people are interested in this game. You may not like it, but you can hardly call them negatives.
No seemless world on the other hand, is not something i like either. But then again, how much are you going to see those portals anyway?
Evan Wilson of Pacific Crest wrote Friday that he has raised his sales estimate for “Star Wars” to 2.2 million units from 1.5 million units for the quarter, and said he remains “comfortable” with his 800,000 subscriber target when the company’s fiscal year ends in late March.
“Admittedly, we set our expectations as if Star Wars was to be a good, not great, MMO,” he wrote. “Fortunately, we think the company did too.”
And that was to quell the panic, ie was supposedly the good news
http://blogs.marketwatch.com/thetell/2012/01/20/ea-bounces-back-as-analysts-defend-‘star-wars’/
I guess we'll see. I've seen numerous threads on this forum with people upset about each of the things I pointed out. And I have seen MANY threads in many different games' forums complaining about the lack of a seamless world. I can pretty much guarantee that people will be upset about these things when they get their hands on the game. Many people will pick up the game expecting things they've gotten used to from other MMOs and they will be disappointed if they don't find them in GW2.
Will it cause major problems for the game? Who knows? We won't until we are all playing it...
This was a sales estimate done by a 3rd party company, not official numbers.
I have a more recent link for you that actually has official numbers:
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/02/01/ea-reveals-swtor-subscription-and-sales-numbers-beats-financial/
Who knows if the game will retain those numbers (they rarely do), but even if your estimate of 800k subscribers is true, that is still more successful than almost any other MMORPG. Hopefully we will find out in a month or two.
my eyes will shed a single tear of sadness while my mind goes blank for some seconds. then I rage some hours, not crying this time, and uninstall and tell people what a lie it was.
My problem is not if GW2 will live up to the hype. My real problem is if i have grown to old for the MMO genre in the waiting. That happends some years ago with turn based strategy games, Like the HOMM series. I still like them, i still follow some games when in development, but i for sure can't stand playing a game anymore following that old formular.
I wonder if that will be the same with MMO's. GW2 have all the changes i have been wanting for along time, but is it enough for me to fully dive into a world or am just growing out if the scene. I will soon see, but i know i had enjoyed the wait, following this amazing game, seeing its potential, just not sure that it will be for me. But i know for sure that wasn't it for GW2 i would have left MMO's already .
You know when you get the truth right up front and you get the chance to make peace with it, it becomes a non-issue when someone else who is trying to hurt you with the truth comes in. It's like "Yeap, I heard that, I've discussed it to death and I think I can deal with it". You just don't care anymore because, in the grand scheme of things it's a non-issue.
This is not a game.