Exactly my point, hehe, it's really those who argue with it that keep it going though, I said this many times in regard to SWTOR during the forum wars. In situations like this just know you're not going to change any minds, once you realize that you'll see how little you feel like replying to it.
You're right, but for some sick reason...I enjoy it .
HEHE, I don't think you're alone in that.
Just accept you have a responsibility to society to do your job properly. If not, these threads would be totally boring.
My fear (Not really as if GW2 doesn't work out then theres TOR or WoW for me) is that GW2 will (once I get ot endgame) be little more then a E-Sport with an open world. Nothing wrong with that, but I do enjoy a little more bang for my buck.
Well your fear may well be entirely justified, based on your attachment to gear grind for YOU GW2 doesn't offer anything at the 'end game'. There's no carrot apart from the achievements system. But personally i don't think any other genre of game has more bang for the buck than what you'll get in GW2, nor any other MMO for that matter. You're describing 'end game' like it's the only point of an MMO. GW2 doesn't have your vision of an endgame, neither did GW1. So really, you've made your point. GW2 doesn't have the content at the end game you're accustomed to in an MMO. it never was going to, it never is going to It's not that kind of game. It doesn't affect people like me at all, because as a guild wars player, i never have had the urge for that kind of end game and never wanted it. Guild wars 2 is a sequel to Guild wars after all, not WoW, it's going to carry forward some of the design ethos. But personally i think ~1k hours of PvE content overall (stories, dungeons, dynamic events, the meta events, the 'heart' quests) at least is pretty damn good value for money. Skyrim was like, what, 60 hours for the same price before you'd basically done everything important? By the time you've clocked 1k hours in another MMO doing content you'll at least be at the 6 month mark and therefore having paid £100. But ya, GW2 is amazing value for money by any stretch. Nothing can be said against that statement without being essentially disproven. Objectively there's too much content. The only way GW2 could be 'bad' value for money is if you simply don't like it. Which is a pretty asanine statement. In that case i could say WoW is abysmal value for money because i wouldn't last a day before quitting out of boredom I don't because it's a stupid statement. I don't think any MMO, if played up until the point before the gear treadmill sets in, could be called bad value for money in terms of content. I say before the gear treadmill because you repeat content like no tomorrow at that point. Which is pretty bad considering you're still paying as much as when you had the whole world left to play through. But even then, compare it to any 'normal' game and MMO's simply blow them away in content. You seriously have to wonder why it took bethesda so long to make skyrim when it took Arenanet 5 years to build a vastly bigger world. So basically, if you want bang for your buck, any MMO will do. Especially ones with no sub. Pretty sure you'll play as many hours for that £40 as you would for any other MMO's £40 before that £10 a month kicked in So yeah, unless you have insane expectations (you obviously don't, you're playing BF3). GW2 gives more than enough 'bang for your buck'.
I think the real point is that at endgame, what you will be doing won't be significantly different from what you do while leveling. That isn't terribly dissimilar to GW1, though the dungeons and some things were only accessible later in the game. But then, the 20 levels was really only a training curve, and vast majority of the game was "endgame."
If you don't like it, you don't like. If you like it, you like it. But let's be serious. There was easily as much to din GW as in "real" MMOs, but the real game was in PvP. I know there is more in GW2, but I don't see why this would change. There is not gear grind, so only people looking to max achievement titles will play content over and over and over. Much like GW1. I feel like most people who play long term will spend some large portion of their time in PvP. I think this is perfectly fine, especially since there is a more to do at endgame.
I think it is perfectly fine to enjoy this, and I expect I will, but I think it is disingenuous to try to tell people they will enjoy the game, even though it doesn't have x or y.
I don't think it's insane expectations. It is a different expectation. I don't enjoy gear ladders, but that is something some people do like. I don't enjoy instanced raids, but that is something some people do like. I think there is plenty of content for the price, certainly more than subscription games, since you can take the time to see all content without paying each month, but if the kind of content does not appeal to you, that isn't a problem with the game or with you.
I don't see why we need to argue. We need more good games. We should have great themeparks that feel like worlds, like GW; we should have serious gear treadmill games that allow people into ever higher levels with new, more powerful equipment; we should have massive, open sandboxes that let people do as much as is technically feasible; we should have untamed open PvP worlds that make people never feel safe; we should have contained e-sport PvP with ladders and tournaments; we should have contained PvE where people can feel safe and explore and battle the world and not other players. But we can't have all of these things at once. Maybe some, but not all.
We all want something a bit different from our games, and that's fine. And we should all have a game that satisfies us. But why argue about what is the right sort of content to enjoy?
TLDR: My point is that it is wrong to criticize people for not liking the kind of content GW2 offers, just as it is wrong to criticize the kind of content GW2 offers. We all want something different, so we should have lots of different games to suit all types.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
League of Legends is a highly competetive PvP ranking game with a huge variety of different characters and mechanics and the last one is what gives it such longetivity.
GW 2 will for sure not have the last one but if they really flesh out the PvP system I guess that is a way to give it longetivity. I really hope they dont waste too much resources on PvE because there are so many other PvE focused MMORPGs out there.
Why in the hell should I go to another mmorpg just for pve content if I like GW2. I hope they don't waste resources on pvp crap when there is wow pvp servers for that.. Works both ways, doesn't it.. They make these games to cater to both pvp and pve players. Since I am a pve player and despise jerks like you who wish things pvp only.. I'm not so selfish and self serving as you... I hope they spend resources on both pvp and pve content. I'm sick of self ish bastards..
While looking forward to this game I think that like Bioware was with TOR the devs hearts are in the right places but come launch they are going to be hit with reality.
Actually more like we, the players are going to be hit with reality come launch.
Anet knows exactly what game they have made and what kind of game it is.
What is really funny is that Anet has told us again and again and again and again what type of game this is and some people just haven't gotten the message yet.
This is extremely true, I only follow GW2 because I am enjoying playing with Guildmates and PVPing my heart out. But there was something missing in other games. Something that took my attention once I heard about WvWvW
I hope people can realize that this game caters to Certain players, its not for everyone.
Most of their news are with PVP and WvWvW anyways, if those aren't for you, then try to find the news on their PVE and if that still don't sound interesting to you then its really a game that just wasn't meant for you. No game will ever be the best forever, If you have played WOW for a year you will know that games becomes stale regardless of its rich content. We are in an age of ADHD, we need something different in an familiar environment that seems to keep renewing itself into something different. Not our fault, its just the way we are now.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
This is extremely true, I only follow GW2 because I am enjoying playing with Guildmates and PVPing my heart out. But there was something missing in other games. Something that took my attention once I heard about WvWvW
I hope people can realize that this game caters to Certain players, its not for everyone.
Not true , problem most of us have; when discussion comes regarding the way gw2 implement a new concept , the line that usually comes up always this ; "............if that doesnt appeal to u, then its not the game for you ." Non-freaking-sense
This game caters to everyone , but the developers of gw2 see this in an another side . Hence the different approach.
The problem isnt whether this game caters to everyone , but how everyone become jaded by the 7 years of same concepts, 'pioneered' by a 'certain' mmorpg , which we still assume as a sucessful ingredient for every MMO. No it is not.
This is extremely true, I only follow GW2 because I am enjoying playing with Guildmates and PVPing my heart out. But there was something missing in other games. Something that took my attention once I heard about WvWvW
I hope people can realize that this game caters to Certain players, its not for everyone.
Not true , problem most of us have; when discussion comes regarding the way gw2 implement a new concept , the line that usually comes up always this ; "............if that doesnt appeal to u, then its not the game for you ." Non-freaking-sense
This game caters to everyone , but the developers of gw2 see this in an another side . Hence the different approach.
The problem isnt whether this game caters to everyone , but how everyone become jaded by the 7 years of same concepts, 'pioneered' by a 'certain' mmorpg , which we still assume as a sucessful ingredient for every MMO. No it is not.
It doesn't cater to everyone at all. Some people simply don't like fantasy style games or RPG's.
Does it cater to everyone who's ever enjoyed a fantasy RPG or a fantasy MMO? I'd say pretty much. They probably just don't know it yet. You'd have to be one of the few who seriously NEED gear grind to be the entire game, in which case they're beyond help.
I really dislike the "oh there is no endgame" arguments. First of all, many people already said, sure after the DE`s ( I think its 1500 of them) so it will take you forever before you`ve really done each one. If each takes 10 minutes on average you`re still at several hundred hours gameplay. Then there are dungeons and PVP etc. So you complain about getting several hundred hours gameplay for a box that will cost like $60... I´ve bought other games that offerd me less than 100 hours for that amount of money, and those were great. Most single player games don`t have more than 40 hours of gameplay so...
It doesn't cater to everyone at all. Some people simply don't like fantasy style games or RPG's.
Does it cater to everyone who's ever enjoyed a fantasy RPG or a fantasy MMO? I'd say pretty much. They probably just don't know it yet. You'd have to be one of the few who seriously NEED gear grind to be the entire game, in which case they're beyond help.
If that is how you want to say it , then all games that ever exist can never caters everyone . The whole point is ; whether gw2 fullfilled all MMORPGs' checklist , and imo they do .
Gear grind still happening in gw 2 , although not as treadmilling and gives much impression that we're donkey chassing the damn carrot (to infinity) , it is just a different perspectiveof grinding.
IMO i dont even think ppl who like gear grinding actually like gear grinding , I mean seriously what kinda of people wuld what to keep doing the same stufffs over & over again. I think it is not whether they find it fun but they see this as a requirement to play better & possibly find fun in it.
It doesn't cater to everyone at all. Some people simply don't like fantasy style games or RPG's.
Does it cater to everyone who's ever enjoyed a fantasy RPG or a fantasy MMO? I'd say pretty much. They probably just don't know it yet. You'd have to be one of the few who seriously NEED gear grind to be the entire game, in which case they're beyond help.
If that is how you want to say it , then all games that ever exist can never caters everyone . The whole point is ; whether gw2 fullfilled all MMORPGs' checklist , and imo they do .
Gear grind still happening in gw 2 , although not as treadmilling and gives much impression that we're donkey chassing the damn carrot (to infinity) , it is just a different perspectiveof grinding.
IMO i dont even think ppl who like gear grinding actually like gear grinding , I mean seriously what kinda of people wuld what to keep doing the same stufffs over & over again. I think it is not whether they find it fun but they see this as a requirement to play better & possibly find fun in it.
There will never be a game that caters to everyone. They try to focus at a certain group and expand from there. If you ever follow a game being developed you will see that there are always posts on how this game doesn't have this certain feature that caters to their needs when it doesn't need it.
Skyrim doesnt cater to the Multiplayer Crowd, Gears of War doesn't cater to the Single Player crowd.
Not saying that GW2 won't satisfy a big chunk of the playerbase, or you shouldn't try to play it and enjoy it, its more of don't expect GW2 to be the Raider's wet dream, or Single Players heaven, they have tons of features that caters to the PVP crowd with ranks and ratings straight out the bag. It does have Dynamic Events, it does have Dungeons because they are expanding their player bases, just do some research and if they have a feature you like then you will enjoy the game. If you don't find anything you like, try it if you want, otherwise wait till we get some first hand reviews.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
It doesn't cater to everyone at all. Some people simply don't like fantasy style games or RPG's.
Does it cater to everyone who's ever enjoyed a fantasy RPG or a fantasy MMO? I'd say pretty much. They probably just don't know it yet. You'd have to be one of the few who seriously NEED gear grind to be the entire game, in which case they're beyond help.
If that is how you want to say it , then all games that ever exist can never caters everyone.
ding ding ding ding ding! winner!
I admit gw2 seems to have all the major MMO traits nailed down and evolved, but some people also play completely weird MMO's that don't even rely on those traits For example, people who like the politics in EVE caused by the sandbox aren't going to find anything anywhere near as close in GW2 (and don't say guild relationships in WvW, it's not the same, it'd be like giving someone a car key and saying it's the same as a car).
It's important to realise that everyone's different and even the most amazing game will have people who don't like it. It's like chocolate fudge cake, some weirdos don't like that
Hey all, I was just browsing some random gaming forums and I noticed some people saying they weren't sure what would keep people playing at the lvl cap. From all the vids and things I have heard about this game...for me personally the combat looks fun, the classes interesting and they have a really nice looking world pvp thing going on. I'm a big fan of pvp in mmos, though im pretty bad in general. My understanding is there will be very difficult 5 man dungeons and such at end game for the pve crowd and the aforementioned WvWvW and Rated PVP for pvpers. That seems like plenty to me.
Are the people saying it wont hold some at lvl cap just bitter we aren't getting 10 man+ raids with a gear grind? What is up with the gear in GW2? Would anyone be so kind as to fill me in on whats known about the role gear plays in pve/pvp endgame? I understand rated pvp gear plays no roled whatsoever as you get pre-made gear. But as far as pve and WvWvW are we looking at a grind? Or more like negligable stat increases and mostly cosmetic stuff?
oh i dunno how about everything you do in the rest of the game while leveling?! purhaps? seriously the rat race to the end game is not in this game title. If you ("you" not being the OP) don't like that model go play SWTOR. it has everything for that type of gamer. Lifeless world, npcs for quests only, no ambience, no sense of realism, rat race to end game where the grind for gear is an absolute.
Seriously it's not like that in GW2. Gear is mostly for cosmetic purposes so to go into any dungeon is for fun alone, nothing more. With their system of scaling the abilities to the zone you are in it allows you to at any time any level go back and play with friends, and when you do go back you will see things that weren't there before thanks to their dynamic event system. And finally they have open world events for the raiders, the difference is not having to wait to form a group, worrying if a tank or healer drops out, not getting loot (because everyone gets loot for armor/weapons who participates) and not having to schedule a time for everyone to meet up, just jump in game and go, if the event is taking place participate.
So essentially they've eliminated all the problems we've found in WoW that has lead to the development of contriversial (but necessary for that game model) tools such as the LFD/LFR system which some will argue that has completely broken the immersion of the game. In GW2 there will still be dungeons but they aren't necessary to progress, they are there are a fun side adventure. It's brilliant actually.
Amazing how many people actually think that lack of content is good design.
Let me tell you something. In all other MMOs you can still craft, explore, do quests etc. at the maximum level. But many choose no to. Why? Because it`s boring! Those things are fun when you start to play the game. But by the time you hit the max level after days and days of grinding you are so sick of questing that you can`t take it anymore.
That`s why MMOs have content that unlocks at the maximum level: raids, organized pvp, group quests etc.
Why should GW2 be different? You will be sick of DEs and those 8 dungeons by the time you hit level 80. I can guarantee you that.
What to do at level cap? Go back to playing WoW probably. That`s what.
Amazing how many people actually think that lack of content is good design.
Let me tell you something. In all other MMOs you can still craft, explore, do quests etc. at the maximum level. But many choose no to. Why? Because it`s boring! Those things are fun when you start to play the game. But by the time you hit the max level after days and days of grinding you are so sick of questing that you can`t take it anymore.
That`s why MMOs have content that unlocks at the maximum level: raids, organized pvp, group quests etc.
Why should GW2 be different? You will be sick of DEs and those 8 dungeons by the time you hit level 80. I can guarantee you that.
What to do at level cap? Go back to playing WoW probably. That`s what.
Until an expansion is released, then you buy that and play through it. At least that's probably what the type of person you describe would do and it's part of the beauty of B2P from a dev standpoint. You only have to justify the box price to you customers, rather than the monthly sub every single month.
Amazing how many people actually think that lack of content is good design.
Let me tell you something. In all other MMOs you can still craft, explore, do quests etc. at the maximum level. But many choose no to. Why? Because it`s boring! Those things are fun when you start to play the game. But by the time you hit the max level after days and days of grinding you are so sick of questing that you can`t take it anymore.
That`s why MMOs have content that unlocks at the maximum level: raids, organized pvp, group quests etc.
Why should GW2 be different? You will be sick of DEs and those 8 dungeons by the time you hit level 80. I can guarantee you that.
What to do at level cap? Go back to playing WoW probably. That`s what.
Lack of content?? There is plenty to do.
Meta events are suppoused to be like "raiding" in GW2... big challenge for big groups.
Not having Raids to grind over & over is probably the feature i love best of GW2.
So sick of the Raid or Leave concept imposed by wow.
This isn't your typical MMORPG where 'the game doesn't start until ENDGAME'. This logic annoys the hell out of me and in my opinion it's the worst thing WoW has done to MMORPG's. I know a lot of people don't share my opinion on that and that's fine.
Why do I write, create, fantasize, dream and daydream about other worlds? Because I hate what humanity does with this one.
Until an expansion is released, then you buy that and play through it. At least that's probably what the type of person you describe would do and it's part of the beauty of B2P from a dev standpoint. You only have to justify the box price to you customers, rather than the monthly sub every single month.
Indeed. Arena Net literally want you to be bored at maximum level. So they would sell more boxes.
Until an expansion is released, then you buy that and play through it. At least that's probably what the type of person you describe would do and it's part of the beauty of B2P from a dev standpoint. You only have to justify the box price to you customers, rather than the monthly sub every single month.
Indeed. Arena Net literally want you to be bored at maximum level. So they would sell more boxes.
I don't think they want you to be bored at all! I just think they don't want to have compulsive game mechanics that trick and prod players into keep playing. They want you to be there for the fun of it, and if you're not having enough fun any more, leave it alone.
Amazing how many people actually think that lack of content is good design.
Let me tell you something. In all other MMOs you can still craft, explore, do quests etc. at the maximum level. But many choose no to. Why? Because it`s boring! Those things are fun when you start to play the game. But by the time you hit the max level after days and days of grinding you are so sick of questing that you can`t take it anymore.
That`s why MMOs have content that unlocks at the maximum level: raids, organized pvp, group quests etc.
Why should GW2 be different? You will be sick of DEs and those 8 dungeons by the time you hit level 80. I can guarantee you that.
What to do at level cap? Go back to playing WoW probably. That`s what.
Lack of content?? There is plenty to do.
Meta events are suppoused to be like "raiding" in GW2... big challenge for big groups.
Not having Raids to grind over & over is probably the feature i love best of GW2.
So sick of the Raid or Leave concept imposed by wow.
wanna Raid?? pick up another game
On the other end, I think it is amazing how many feel repetative raiding is good design. It's easy content for the provider and I'm sure they thank you in the bank for being so excited about something they produce once and you use many, many, many , many times and are oh so happy with. I have not played GW2 to the end to know if they pulled off something better, neither have you but I remain hopeful. At the very least they are not taking the traditional easy way out that is end game raiding. That certanly wont appeal to some. I for one, I'm ok with that.
Why should it be different, because the developer choose to make it so. How do you know what any individual will be sick of and how it will play out in a game that has yet to be released...you don't. If you play GW2 enjoy it to level cap and decide hey I want to raid and jump back to WoW. Go for it but I'm guessing, and it is a guess, that you will have attained the value of $60 of entertainment from the game. If you didn't, when the release the next expansion you most likely wont buy it. The developers know this, they need to make it compelling to keep the money flowing. WoW, well they didn't need to change a thing you still go back and mindlessly raid for hours on end and pay them every month to do so. You call it fun, maybe it is for you, count me out and continue to be amazed by me.
Amazing how many people actually think that lack of content is good design.
Let me tell you something. In all other MMOs you can still craft, explore, do quests etc. at the maximum level. But many choose no to. Why? Because it`s boring! Those things are fun when you start to play the game. But by the time you hit the max level after days and days of grinding you are so sick of questing that you can`t take it anymore.
That`s why MMOs have content that unlocks at the maximum level: raids, organized pvp, group quests etc.
Why should GW2 be different? You will be sick of DEs and those 8 dungeons by the time you hit level 80. I can guarantee you that.
What to do at level cap? Go back to playing WoW probably. That`s what.
What's amazing is how BRAINWASHED people have become by WoW and MMORPG's that followed its design closely, to believe what an MMORPG should be.
It seems many are incapable of thinking outside the box and seeing the bigger picture. But that's fine. My suggestion, try it and see for yourself if you have nothing to do when you reach max level
Why do I write, create, fantasize, dream and daydream about other worlds? Because I hate what humanity does with this one.
Until an expansion is released, then you buy that and play through it. At least that's probably what the type of person you describe would do and it's part of the beauty of B2P from a dev standpoint. You only have to justify the box price to you customers, rather than the monthly sub every single month.
Indeed. Arena Net literally want you to be bored at maximum level. So they would sell more boxes.
Man these arguments just keep getting better.
WTF makes you think people have to be bored to buy an expansion? If you are playing a game, and a you like it, you will probably buy the expansion. You don't have to be "bored" or "out of content" to buy an expansion. If this was true, then Eve would never sell expansions since players generate their own content.
What's amazing is how BRAINWASHED people have become by WoW and MMORPG's that followed its design closely, to believe what an MMORPG should be.
It seems many are incapable of thinking outside the box and seeing the bigger picture. But that's fine. My suggestion, try it and see for yourself if you have nothing to do when you reach max level
Bigger picture? The only bigger picture here is that GW2 offers less content than other MMOs at the maximum level. That`s the only bigger picture here.
So cute that you claim GW2 is special because it starts at lvl 1. And other MMOs don`t start at lvl 1? What special features GW2 offers at level 1 when compared to other games? I`ll tell you. None. The gameplay is exactly the same.
What's amazing is how BRAINWASHED people have become by WoW and MMORPG's that followed its design closely, to believe what an MMORPG should be.
It seems many are incapable of thinking outside the box and seeing the bigger picture. But that's fine. My suggestion, try it and see for yourself if you have nothing to do when you reach max level
Bigger picture? The only bigger picture here is that GW2 offers less content than other MMOs at the maximum level. That`s the only bigger picture here.
So cute that you claim GW2 is special because it starts at lvl 1. And other MMOs don`t start at lvl 1? What special features GW2 offers at level 1 when compared to other games? I`ll tell you. None. The gameplay is exactly the same.
Do me a favor.
Make a new WoW character.
Join an instanced PvP match.
Oh wait, what's that you can't? Have to be level 30?
Okay fine, now join some open world PvP like WIntergrasp or Tol Barad.
Oh wait, can't do that either? Have to be much higher level?
Any Guild Wars 1 veterans wanna tell everyone what we did at level cap?
Since GW2 is going to be a sequel to GW1 I would think the Devs built the game around the same type of progression GW1 had. At max level (which is level 20 in GW1) players worked on their titles/achievements and trying to make their character look as badass as possible. OH IT DOESNT STOP THERE! In Guild Wars Factions campaign alliances compete to hold towns !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Players also tried to complete Underworld which is probably 10 times harder than your WoW raid. Then when Nightfall came out it was Domain of Anguish that was bringing on the hurt to level 20 players.
So what I am saying is expect something very similar to what you did in endgame Guild Wars 1. Wait a second , there really wasnt an endgame in GW1 because level 20 took 5 hours to get ?
What is endgame? Since we are all MMO pros and developers how bout someone tell us what an MMO is supposed to be.
In my opinion, for a game to be an MMO you have to have a world , a world that is persistent with an environment that is alive with hundreds of players playing together. An MMO does not need quests or endgame to be an MMO.
MMOs are supposed to be social and yet you cant even talk to the person sitting next to you in-game without them tearing your head off.
Level cap? I remember once that Anet said they werent going to have a level cap, but then they had to make carebears happy.
Comments
Just accept you have a responsibility to society to do your job properly. If not, these threads would be totally boring.
I think the real point is that at endgame, what you will be doing won't be significantly different from what you do while leveling. That isn't terribly dissimilar to GW1, though the dungeons and some things were only accessible later in the game. But then, the 20 levels was really only a training curve, and vast majority of the game was "endgame."
If you don't like it, you don't like. If you like it, you like it. But let's be serious. There was easily as much to din GW as in "real" MMOs, but the real game was in PvP. I know there is more in GW2, but I don't see why this would change. There is not gear grind, so only people looking to max achievement titles will play content over and over and over. Much like GW1. I feel like most people who play long term will spend some large portion of their time in PvP. I think this is perfectly fine, especially since there is a more to do at endgame.
I think it is perfectly fine to enjoy this, and I expect I will, but I think it is disingenuous to try to tell people they will enjoy the game, even though it doesn't have x or y.
I don't think it's insane expectations. It is a different expectation. I don't enjoy gear ladders, but that is something some people do like. I don't enjoy instanced raids, but that is something some people do like. I think there is plenty of content for the price, certainly more than subscription games, since you can take the time to see all content without paying each month, but if the kind of content does not appeal to you, that isn't a problem with the game or with you.
I don't see why we need to argue. We need more good games. We should have great themeparks that feel like worlds, like GW; we should have serious gear treadmill games that allow people into ever higher levels with new, more powerful equipment; we should have massive, open sandboxes that let people do as much as is technically feasible; we should have untamed open PvP worlds that make people never feel safe; we should have contained e-sport PvP with ladders and tournaments; we should have contained PvE where people can feel safe and explore and battle the world and not other players. But we can't have all of these things at once. Maybe some, but not all.
We all want something a bit different from our games, and that's fine. And we should all have a game that satisfies us. But why argue about what is the right sort of content to enjoy?
TLDR: My point is that it is wrong to criticize people for not liking the kind of content GW2 offers, just as it is wrong to criticize the kind of content GW2 offers. We all want something different, so we should have lots of different games to suit all types.
"There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."
John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman
Why in the hell should I go to another mmorpg just for pve content if I like GW2. I hope they don't waste resources on pvp crap when there is wow pvp servers for that.. Works both ways, doesn't it.. They make these games to cater to both pvp and pve players. Since I am a pve player and despise jerks like you who wish things pvp only.. I'm not so selfish and self serving as you... I hope they spend resources on both pvp and pve content. I'm sick of self ish bastards..
This is extremely true, I only follow GW2 because I am enjoying playing with Guildmates and PVPing my heart out. But there was something missing in other games. Something that took my attention once I heard about WvWvW
I hope people can realize that this game caters to Certain players, its not for everyone.
Most of their news are with PVP and WvWvW anyways, if those aren't for you, then try to find the news on their PVE and if that still don't sound interesting to you then its really a game that just wasn't meant for you. No game will ever be the best forever, If you have played WOW for a year you will know that games becomes stale regardless of its rich content. We are in an age of ADHD, we need something different in an familiar environment that seems to keep renewing itself into something different. Not our fault, its just the way we are now.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
Not true , problem most of us have; when discussion comes regarding the way gw2 implement a new concept , the line that usually comes up always this ; "............if that doesnt appeal to u, then its not the game for you ." Non-freaking-sense
This game caters to everyone , but the developers of gw2 see this in an another side . Hence the different approach.
The problem isnt whether this game caters to everyone , but how everyone become jaded by the 7 years of same concepts, 'pioneered' by a 'certain' mmorpg , which we still assume as a sucessful ingredient for every MMO. No it is not.
It doesn't cater to everyone at all. Some people simply don't like fantasy style games or RPG's.
Does it cater to everyone who's ever enjoyed a fantasy RPG or a fantasy MMO? I'd say pretty much. They probably just don't know it yet. You'd have to be one of the few who seriously NEED gear grind to be the entire game, in which case they're beyond help.
I really dislike the "oh there is no endgame" arguments. First of all, many people already said, sure after the DE`s ( I think its 1500 of them) so it will take you forever before you`ve really done each one. If each takes 10 minutes on average you`re still at several hundred hours gameplay. Then there are dungeons and PVP etc. So you complain about getting several hundred hours gameplay for a box that will cost like $60... I´ve bought other games that offerd me less than 100 hours for that amount of money, and those were great. Most single player games don`t have more than 40 hours of gameplay so...
If that is how you want to say it , then all games that ever exist can never caters everyone . The whole point is ; whether gw2 fullfilled all MMORPGs' checklist , and imo they do .
Gear grind still happening in gw 2 , although not as treadmilling and gives much impression that we're donkey chassing the damn carrot (to infinity) , it is just a different perspectiveof grinding.
IMO i dont even think ppl who like gear grinding actually like gear grinding , I mean seriously what kinda of people wuld what to keep doing the same stufffs over & over again. I think it is not whether they find it fun but they see this as a requirement to play better & possibly find fun in it.
There will never be a game that caters to everyone. They try to focus at a certain group and expand from there. If you ever follow a game being developed you will see that there are always posts on how this game doesn't have this certain feature that caters to their needs when it doesn't need it.
Skyrim doesnt cater to the Multiplayer Crowd, Gears of War doesn't cater to the Single Player crowd.
Not saying that GW2 won't satisfy a big chunk of the playerbase, or you shouldn't try to play it and enjoy it, its more of don't expect GW2 to be the Raider's wet dream, or Single Players heaven, they have tons of features that caters to the PVP crowd with ranks and ratings straight out the bag. It does have Dynamic Events, it does have Dungeons because they are expanding their player bases, just do some research and if they have a feature you like then you will enjoy the game. If you don't find anything you like, try it if you want, otherwise wait till we get some first hand reviews.
Life is a Maze, so make sure you bring your GPS incase you get lost in it.
ding ding ding ding ding! winner!
I admit gw2 seems to have all the major MMO traits nailed down and evolved, but some people also play completely weird MMO's that don't even rely on those traits
For example, people who like the politics in EVE caused by the sandbox aren't going to find anything anywhere near as close in GW2 (and don't say guild relationships in WvW, it's not the same, it'd be like giving someone a car key and saying it's the same as a car).
It's important to realise that everyone's different and even the most amazing game will have people who don't like it. It's like chocolate fudge cake, some weirdos don't like that
oh i dunno how about everything you do in the rest of the game while leveling?! purhaps? seriously the rat race to the end game is not in this game title. If you ("you" not being the OP) don't like that model go play SWTOR.
it has everything for that type of gamer. Lifeless world, npcs for quests only, no ambience, no sense of realism, rat race to end game where the grind for gear is an absolute.
Seriously it's not like that in GW2. Gear is mostly for cosmetic purposes so to go into any dungeon is for fun alone, nothing more. With their system of scaling the abilities to the zone you are in it allows you to at any time any level go back and play with friends, and when you do go back you will see things that weren't there before thanks to their dynamic event system. And finally they have open world events for the raiders, the difference is not having to wait to form a group, worrying if a tank or healer drops out, not getting loot (because everyone gets loot for armor/weapons who participates) and not having to schedule a time for everyone to meet up, just jump in game and go, if the event is taking place participate.
So essentially they've eliminated all the problems we've found in WoW that has lead to the development of contriversial (but necessary for that game model) tools such as the LFD/LFR system which some will argue that has completely broken the immersion of the game. In GW2 there will still be dungeons but they aren't necessary to progress, they are there are a fun side adventure. It's brilliant actually.
Amazing how many people actually think that lack of content is good design.
Let me tell you something. In all other MMOs you can still craft, explore, do quests etc. at the maximum level. But many choose no to. Why? Because it`s boring! Those things are fun when you start to play the game. But by the time you hit the max level after days and days of grinding you are so sick of questing that you can`t take it anymore.
That`s why MMOs have content that unlocks at the maximum level: raids, organized pvp, group quests etc.
Why should GW2 be different? You will be sick of DEs and those 8 dungeons by the time you hit level 80. I can guarantee you that.
What to do at level cap? Go back to playing WoW probably. That`s what.
Until an expansion is released, then you buy that and play through it. At least that's probably what the type of person you describe would do and it's part of the beauty of B2P from a dev standpoint. You only have to justify the box price to you customers, rather than the monthly sub every single month.
Lack of content?? There is plenty to do.
Meta events are suppoused to be like "raiding" in GW2... big challenge for big groups.
Not having Raids to grind over & over is probably the feature i love best of GW2.
So sick of the Raid or Leave concept imposed by wow.
wanna Raid?? pick up another game
Keep adventuring. Fight for your world.
This isn't your typical MMORPG where 'the game doesn't start until ENDGAME'. This logic annoys the hell out of me and in my opinion it's the worst thing WoW has done to MMORPG's. I know a lot of people don't share my opinion on that and that's fine.
BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.
Indeed. Arena Net literally want you to be bored at maximum level. So they would sell more boxes.
I don't think they want you to be bored at all! I just think they don't want to have compulsive game mechanics that trick and prod players into keep playing. They want you to be there for the fun of it, and if you're not having enough fun any more, leave it alone.
On the other end, I think it is amazing how many feel repetative raiding is good design. It's easy content for the provider and I'm sure they thank you in the bank for being so excited about something they produce once and you use many, many, many , many times and are oh so happy with. I have not played GW2 to the end to know if they pulled off something better, neither have you but I remain hopeful. At the very least they are not taking the traditional easy way out that is end game raiding. That certanly wont appeal to some. I for one, I'm ok with that.
Why should it be different, because the developer choose to make it so. How do you know what any individual will be sick of and how it will play out in a game that has yet to be released...you don't. If you play GW2 enjoy it to level cap and decide hey I want to raid and jump back to WoW. Go for it but I'm guessing, and it is a guess, that you will have attained the value of $60 of entertainment from the game. If you didn't, when the release the next expansion you most likely wont buy it. The developers know this, they need to make it compelling to keep the money flowing. WoW, well they didn't need to change a thing you still go back and mindlessly raid for hours on end and pay them every month to do so. You call it fun, maybe it is for you, count me out and continue to be amazed by me.
Amazing how people think GW2 has a lack of content.
What's amazing is how BRAINWASHED people have become by WoW and MMORPG's that followed its design closely, to believe what an MMORPG should be.
It seems many are incapable of thinking outside the box and seeing the bigger picture. But that's fine. My suggestion, try it and see for yourself if you have nothing to do when you reach max level
BOYCOTTING EA / ORIGIN going forward.
Man these arguments just keep getting better.
WTF makes you think people have to be bored to buy an expansion? If you are playing a game, and a you like it, you will probably buy the expansion. You don't have to be "bored" or "out of content" to buy an expansion. If this was true, then Eve would never sell expansions since players generate their own content.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
What iam looking forward to when reaching max level in GW2 is pvp with no bone to keep running after.
No rewards are needed for me then just pvp for fun and adreneline.
Looking at the top dogs on my server how they perform in arena as a spectator.
Taking part off sieges for hours on end just for the action.
Doing massive events becuase their awesome to witness and be part of.
That is my end game.
Bigger picture? The only bigger picture here is that GW2 offers less content than other MMOs at the maximum level. That`s the only bigger picture here.
So cute that you claim GW2 is special because it starts at lvl 1. And other MMOs don`t start at lvl 1? What special features GW2 offers at level 1 when compared to other games? I`ll tell you. None. The gameplay is exactly the same.
Do me a favor.
Make a new WoW character.
Join an instanced PvP match.
Oh wait, what's that you can't? Have to be level 30?
Okay fine, now join some open world PvP like WIntergrasp or Tol Barad.
Oh wait, can't do that either? Have to be much higher level?
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Any Guild Wars 1 veterans wanna tell everyone what we did at level cap?
Since GW2 is going to be a sequel to GW1 I would think the Devs built the game around the same type of progression GW1 had. At max level (which is level 20 in GW1) players worked on their titles/achievements and trying to make their character look as badass as possible. OH IT DOESNT STOP THERE! In Guild Wars Factions campaign alliances compete to hold towns !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Players also tried to complete Underworld which is probably 10 times harder than your WoW raid. Then when Nightfall came out it was Domain of Anguish that was bringing on the hurt to level 20 players.
So what I am saying is expect something very similar to what you did in endgame Guild Wars 1. Wait a second , there really wasnt an endgame in GW1 because level 20 took 5 hours to get ?
What is endgame? Since we are all MMO pros and developers how bout someone tell us what an MMO is supposed to be.
In my opinion, for a game to be an MMO you have to have a world , a world that is persistent with an environment that is alive with hundreds of players playing together. An MMO does not need quests or endgame to be an MMO.
MMOs are supposed to be social and yet you cant even talk to the person sitting next to you in-game without them tearing your head off.
Level cap? I remember once that Anet said they werent going to have a level cap, but then they had to make carebears happy.
-I am here to perform logic