That's true. But at the same time, there were a lot of more negative opinions about SWTOR as well. I have yet to see one solidly negative opinion about GW2 from someone who actually played it. If you have one, let me know, I would be interested to see what they didn't like.
Also, Snalyor says the PvE in GW2 will be terrible, but I see no actual arguments as to why. He just gives a nebulous "I wasn't impressed." That doesn't mean anything.
Before SWTOR was out, there was TONS of controversy on the boards from players who didn't like some of their design decisions, and provided actual reasons why.
I have before and you did exactly what the "SWTOR Fanbois" did.
Nothing wrong with it TBH, but the fact that you have 0 Critisism (I suck at spelling) for GW2 PvE system shows little objectivity. For instances GW2 Group content cannot be too difficult, the reason being how GW2 classes are all not only very hemogized (Forget the word atm sure you'll all know what Im talking about) but the way dynamic event have to scale. As many have said before this leads to zerging, lack of healing or tanking means you don't have to relie (Once again sorry) on other people essentually marginalizing the MMO aspect, Class combos can only get you so far due to once again the zerging aspect of the PvE content.
You can't just equate this with what "SWTOR Fanbois" said. Just watch this video series:
Note how many times they die. It really doesn't look easy to me. If you think that you have to have a trinity system or it's just a mindless zerg, then I'm sorry, but you're wrong.
Did Counterstrike have a trinity system? Was it just a mindless zerg? What about DOTA or its clones?
Look, I'm not arguing that GW2 is going to be great. I'm arguing that your viewpoint and reasoning are wrong. You're assuming that without a trinity, there are no tactics...and that's just so narrowminded and wrong. There are so many games out there that have tactics and don't need a trinity system for them.
EDIT: Okay the link doesn't want to work, but it's Curse's Ascalon Catacombs series. If you're interested, you can google it.
Not saying that their cna't be any structured chaos, but the way GW2 is doing dynamic events, which from what I have seen seems to be nothing but a dungeon finder so sorts, walk in on the DE and boom you;re in it.
And I think because of THAT it will become more or less a mindless zerg, the lack of a trinity beyond the closest person is now the tank doesn;t really help.
Its the way its set up. As far as them dying? Its a new MMO with a different set up. I died about 20 times when I first started playing Darkfall.
That's true. But at the same time, there were a lot of more negative opinions about SWTOR as well. I have yet to see one solidly negative opinion about GW2 from someone who actually played it. If you have one, let me know, I would be interested to see what they didn't like.
Also, Snalyor says the PvE in GW2 will be terrible, but I see no actual arguments as to why. He just gives a nebulous "I wasn't impressed." That doesn't mean anything.
Before SWTOR was out, there was TONS of controversy on the boards from players who didn't like some of their design decisions, and provided actual reasons why.
I have before and you did exactly what the "SWTOR Fanbois" did.
Nothing wrong with it TBH, but the fact that you have 0 Critisism (I suck at spelling) for GW2 PvE system shows little objectivity. For instances GW2 Group content cannot be too difficult, the reason being how GW2 classes are all not only very hemogized (Forget the word atm sure you'll all know what Im talking about) but the way dynamic event have to scale. As many have said before this leads to zerging, lack of healing or tanking means you don't have to relie (Once again sorry) on other people essentually marginalizing the MMO aspect, Class combos can only get you so far due to once again the zerging aspect of the PvE content.
No offense, but you shouldn't come to a forum dedicated to a game and expect objectivity. I guess for me personally I'm so used to getting the same Quest hub type system for so long, the prospect of doing it differently excites me and I don't really see a negative. This next statement about the GW2 classes being homogenized is totally ridiculous, you realize that word means that the classes are the same? If I didn't know better I would say your complaining about the lack of "holy trinity". Will people zerg content? Of course they will, do you know of some other game where nobody zergs? Do people not zerg in mmos that have dedicated tanks and healers?
I can see why you disagree alot with what is said, from this post i can understand what you define as an mmo now. For you mmos are games with gear grinds, raids and the holy trinity. To me MMO's are games you play online with alot of people at once. I'm open and positive about any new concepts and ideas devs wanna try. This industry is still in it's infancy. As technology gets better and better the genre is going to branch out quite a bit I think.
I guess i'm left with a confused feeling I guess, you seem to like traditional mmo's more then you like the idea of GW2.So my question is what game do you play now and why even leave if its already what your looking for?
We have seen a lot of game play and had a lot of video and text reviews from players and press.
WvW, PvE, PvP... lots and lots and lots of info.
Like, 45+ minute straight through play sessions and such.
You watch all of them, everything you can find, and read all the articles you can find, you can get a pretty good idea how the game is going to play.
How "fun" it will be and how it will "feel" we won't know till we actually play it ourselves, but there is no lack of information out there for your consumption.
Which is (or should be) the crux of it all. It's the only thing I really care about personally, that much is for sure.
Videos, opinion pieces, dev presentations,etc.. may fill us in on how mechanics work, they may show us a glimpse of the game, but thats where it ends. There are just too many variables that can not be represented to know for sure about anything.
In the case of an MMO a large part of what guides the experience from one extreme to another is how the community plays it. This will determine the overall quality of the game in many ways.
For all we know at this point, WvW could turn into an exploit fest (cough*Ilum*Cough) or worse. It's all in whether the players are interested in playing the game, or cheating their way through it; not to mention how the devs respond if the latter is the case.
Whether people are helpful or jerks, etc.. makes a big difference as well.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Well I would assume that Snaylor is interested in at least a few of the things GW2 is bringing to the table, otherwise he wouldn't be here.
I do think when you play a new game, especially one that deviates from a lot of the stuff that was in a lot of the other games, you have to start it with an open mind. The biggest hurdle the game will have, I feel, is the preconceptions and habits from gamers not used to the franchise.
Really sums my opinion of forums. As someone who tries rather hard to see both sides of an issue, I get called a fanboi and a hater constantly. simular things happened to me on the TOR forums when I suggested a LFD Tool, I got called a hater, then (On this site) when I suggested that people shold cool their jets over a game that just released I got called a fanboi.
Chances are I'll defend this game when the time comes but for now, and for its own sake. I'll try to keep my critisisms reasonable.
Well I would assume that Snaylor is interested in at least a few of the things GW2 is bringing to the table, otherwise he wouldn't be here.
I do think when you play a new game, especially one that deviates from a lot of the stuff that was in a lot of the other games, you have to start it with an open mind. The biggest hurdle the game will have, I feel, is the preconceptions and habits from gamers not used to the franchise.
I could only see that being a problem for people who only play one type of game. For anyone who plays multiple genre's it shouldn't be much of an issue. I'm sure they're following some gaming convention with their game-play.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
In guild wars 1, the game *begins* at the level cap.
I imagine the level caps wont mean anything and will just be a guide of progress and not something you do for progression. After the level cap, you keep doing stuff to get awesome loot and experience the dynamic events. If you only play a game just to level up, you should play a game where you a click a button and constantly level up forever. Seriously.
At the maximum level the world ceases to exist, everything is too weak to be a challenge.
If GW2 is like WoW then I quit.
It isn't, that's the main reason why people are so excited about it. If you level up in GW2, you gain access to new areas of the world, but the ones you came from are still valid for playing, and since you may have missed events while you were there the first time, there's even a reason to go back, at least for a few times. It's not going to keep your interest forever, but at least it's not one-use only.
Funny because from the posters only two got what I meant, I like how in order to answer the question we can't list games with endgames with like WoW, apparently if games required carrot on a stick in order to have high retention mmorpgs aside from WoW would not be having retention issues. Snaylor you are correct lol. Creslin you already asked what I was going to ask but you ninja'd me, maybe I should of been more clear about endgame.
Now what is ANETs focus? Well when an MMO goal in endgame are the exact same as WoW then you should expect WoW type endgame and high retention. It's funny because I beat this to death, ANET's goal is to not make the next WoW, that's where all these other devs in the past have tried and to be honest I can't name one who succeeded. Eve obviously didn't try to make the next WoW. It's really easy to see, if you guys look at this objectively you'll see PVE content literally has much more of replayability with one character than most mmorpgs. Just gotta think outside the box a bit. Which I'll just let the game speak for itself post release.
Edited: This is why I see so much hypocrisy, I can't with a straight face name an MMO that has WoW's same endgame "goal," that has surpassed WoW and/or has no retention issues. Same complaints about the endgame content. There really aren't that many in games who's endgame isn't only a carrot on a stick. Like I said in another thread I'd rather have the ability to eat my carrot, grow my own carrots and them eat them, and have them grow them selves and then eat it, rather than chase the carrot.
We could say WoW copied EQ, well yea becaus that was in 04 but trying that B/S now doesn't work and you guys know it. So what are the alternatives? Well see when you have scaling in an MMO and events that chain an can be missed, hidden areas that are hard themselves, a personal story that scales an could by itself level you from level 1-80 lol, I'll be damn if I get bored on that by itself, not to mention the social aspects and mini games with ranks themselves that are actually not half assed. Dungeons have events in them so run through the same explorable dungeon 5 times and you can still find something different occuring. I'm going to cut it there, you guys could look more into the PVE content if you'd like.
At the end of the day quantity doesn't equal quality. Now I'm outtie y'all can keep arguing, keep trying to spin ish, keep doig what makes you feel better, it's life, so I understand when being met with many dissappointments it's only natural to assume the same for the next game, luckily for me I found an MMO that for the first time I can see based off my experience that I'll atleast hit cap but literally stick to it.
I'm not good with typing long "essays." I hope this helps, sure it'll be TL:DR but oh well. Oh and takecare.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Ask yourself honestly, will you go back to lower level DE's if you've already done them once/twice (for friends etc) ?
I already know that i won't.
If i've already seen/done it once/twice, i rather never do the same thing again, they're still quests, only that you're introduced to them differently than the current "standard"
Other games already have "exploration, titles, achievements, crafting, rping, dungeons and the lot" Still people have exhausted themselves in a month or two.
Actually, many people do repeat content, either to help other newer members to the game level up, farm for materials, because it's fun, play alts, etc. Your playstyle of 'If i've already seen/done it once/twice, i rather never do the same thing again, ' is fine. You can either play WvW, personal storylines, dungeons, Competitive PvP, or not. The publisher/devs got your money already, and if you truly enjoyed the game, they will get it the next time to. This is the beauty of BtP.
My idea realted to endgame: it is unneccesary. A BtP game does not require retention it requires support of future sales. Think about the difference between a Real Estate agent and a Landlord. A Real Estate agent is only interested in selling the house in front of them, and by creating a great experience with their current clients, they hope for future clients and listings. In other words, a great game means happy players with the game before them, which hopefully leads to better and better sales of new content over time. A landlord is interested in keeping the house rented, i.e. retaining someone to pay bills related to the house and some profit. A landlord SHOULD keep up the property, make his renters happy, but that is generally not the case. Many, if not most, landlords will find the cheapest way to keep up appearances in an attempt to retain their current renters. A very different attitude.
So here's my point: There is endgame content, completely dissimilar to what the current playerbase expects. Will it prove worthwhile enough to bring 'endgamers' back to the game with a new release? That answer will be up to those that have the requirements for this type of content. Will this be something that seriously hurts GW2? I don't think so, as I believe there are more people that enjoy the ride than enjoy the destination.
No, there is no seperate game mode for guild vs guild. Guilds will likely dominate in Structered PvP however and they can take over, hold and upgrade keeps in WvWvW.
Edited: This is why I see so much hypocrisy, I can't with a straight face name an MMO that has WoW's same endgame "goal," that has surpassed WoW and/or has no retention issues. Same complaints about the endgame content. There really aren't that many in games who's endgame isn't only a carrot on a stick. Like I said in another thread I'd rather have the ability to eat my carrot, grow my own carrots and them eat them, and have them grow them selves and then eat it, rather than chase the carrot.
We could say WoW copied EQ, well yea becaus that was in 04 but trying that B/S now doesn't work and you guys know it. So what are the alternatives? Well see when you have scaling in an MMO and events that chain an can be missed, hidden areas that are hard themselves, a personal story that scales an could by itself level you from level 1-80 lol, I'll be damn if I get bored on that by itself, not to mention the social aspects and mini games with ranks themselves that are actually not half assed. Dungeons have events in them so run through the same explorable dungeon 5 times and you can still find something different occuring. I'm going to cut it there, you guys could look more into the PVE content if you'd like.
At the end of the day quantity doesn't equal quality. Now I'm outtie y'all can keep arguing, keep trying to spin ish, keep doig what makes you feel better, it's life, so I understand when being met with many dissappointments it's only natural to assume the same for the next game, luckily for me I found an MMO that for the first time I can see based off my experience that I'll atleast hit cap but literally stick to it.
I'm not good with typing long "essays." I hope this helps, sure it'll be TL:DR but oh well. Oh and takecare.
There are plenty of options that create long term play that have nothing at all to do with the WOW model. Giving ownership of the gameworld to the players as an example (EVE, Shadowbane). Create on-going live events that dynamically alter a zone, and make players fight to return it to normal (not sure if anyone does this). Create a real economic atmosphere for players to shape, (UO, EVE, SWG). this list could be huge. Lot's of things have been done in MMO's that have nothing to do with gear grinds or carrot on the stick time-sinks.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Edited: This is why I see so much hypocrisy, I can't with a straight face name an MMO that has WoW's same endgame "goal," that has surpassed WoW and/or has no retention issues. Same complaints about the endgame content. There really aren't that many in games who's endgame isn't only a carrot on a stick. Like I said in another thread I'd rather have the ability to eat my carrot, grow my own carrots and them eat them, and have them grow them selves and then eat it, rather than chase the carrot.
We could say WoW copied EQ, well yea becaus that was in 04 but trying that B/S now doesn't work and you guys know it. So what are the alternatives? Well see when you have scaling in an MMO and events that chain an can be missed, hidden areas that are hard themselves, a personal story that scales an could by itself level you from level 1-80 lol, I'll be damn if I get bored on that by itself, not to mention the social aspects and mini games with ranks themselves that are actually not half assed. Dungeons have events in them so run through the same explorable dungeon 5 times and you can still find something different occuring. I'm going to cut it there, you guys could look more into the PVE content if you'd like.
At the end of the day quantity doesn't equal quality. Now I'm outtie y'all can keep arguing, keep trying to spin ish, keep doig what makes you feel better, it's life, so I understand when being met with many dissappointments it's only natural to assume the same for the next game, luckily for me I found an MMO that for the first time I can see based off my experience that I'll atleast hit cap but literally stick to it.
I'm not good with typing long "essays." I hope this helps, sure it'll be TL:DR but oh well. Oh and takecare.
There are plenty of options that create long term play that have nothing at all to do with the WOW model. Giving ownership of the gameworld to the players as an example (EVE, Shadowbane). Create on-going live events that dynamically alter a zone, and make players fight to return it to normal (not sure if anyone does this). Create a real economic atmosphere for players to shape, (UO, EVE, SWG). this list could be huge. Lot's of things have been done in MMO's that have nothing to do with gear grinds or carrot on the stick time-sinks.
That's my point lol.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Edited: This is why I see so much hypocrisy, I can't with a straight face name an MMO that has WoW's same endgame "goal," that has surpassed WoW and/or has no retention issues. Same complaints about the endgame content. There really aren't that many in games who's endgame isn't only a carrot on a stick. Like I said in another thread I'd rather have the ability to eat my carrot, grow my own carrots and them eat them, and have them grow them selves and then eat it, rather than chase the carrot.
We could say WoW copied EQ, well yea becaus that was in 04 but trying that B/S now doesn't work and you guys know it. So what are the alternatives? Well see when you have scaling in an MMO and events that chain an can be missed, hidden areas that are hard themselves, a personal story that scales an could by itself level you from level 1-80 lol, I'll be damn if I get bored on that by itself, not to mention the social aspects and mini games with ranks themselves that are actually not half assed. Dungeons have events in them so run through the same explorable dungeon 5 times and you can still find something different occuring. I'm going to cut it there, you guys could look more into the PVE content if you'd like.
At the end of the day quantity doesn't equal quality. Now I'm outtie y'all can keep arguing, keep trying to spin ish, keep doig what makes you feel better, it's life, so I understand when being met with many dissappointments it's only natural to assume the same for the next game, luckily for me I found an MMO that for the first time I can see based off my experience that I'll atleast hit cap but literally stick to it.
I'm not good with typing long "essays." I hope this helps, sure it'll be TL:DR but oh well. Oh and takecare.
There are plenty of options that create long term play that have nothing at all to do with the WOW model. Giving ownership of the gameworld to the players as an example (EVE, Shadowbane). Create on-going live events that dynamically alter a zone, and make players fight to return it to normal (not sure if anyone does this). Create a real economic atmosphere for players to shape, (UO, EVE, SWG). this list could be huge. Lot's of things have been done in MMO's that have nothing to do with gear grinds or carrot on the stick time-sinks.
Maybe ArenaNet could expand upon the game and add one or two of those features you mentioned, in the future. Maybe in some kind of Expansion.
Edited: This is why I see so much hypocrisy, I can't with a straight face name an MMO that has WoW's same endgame "goal," that has surpassed WoW and/or has no retention issues. Same complaints about the endgame content. There really aren't that many in games who's endgame isn't only a carrot on a stick. Like I said in another thread I'd rather have the ability to eat my carrot, grow my own carrots and them eat them, and have them grow them selves and then eat it, rather than chase the carrot.
We could say WoW copied EQ, well yea becaus that was in 04 but trying that B/S now doesn't work and you guys know it. So what are the alternatives? Well see when you have scaling in an MMO and events that chain an can be missed, hidden areas that are hard themselves, a personal story that scales an could by itself level you from level 1-80 lol, I'll be damn if I get bored on that by itself, not to mention the social aspects and mini games with ranks themselves that are actually not half assed. Dungeons have events in them so run through the same explorable dungeon 5 times and you can still find something different occuring. I'm going to cut it there, you guys could look more into the PVE content if you'd like.
At the end of the day quantity doesn't equal quality. Now I'm outtie y'all can keep arguing, keep trying to spin ish, keep doig what makes you feel better, it's life, so I understand when being met with many dissappointments it's only natural to assume the same for the next game, luckily for me I found an MMO that for the first time I can see based off my experience that I'll atleast hit cap but literally stick to it.
I'm not good with typing long "essays." I hope this helps, sure it'll be TL:DR but oh well. Oh and takecare.
There are plenty of options that create long term play that have nothing at all to do with the WOW model. Giving ownership of the gameworld to the players as an example (EVE, Shadowbane). Create on-going live events that dynamically alter a zone, and make players fight to return it to normal (not sure if anyone does this). Create a real economic atmosphere for players to shape, (UO, EVE, SWG). this list could be huge. Lot's of things have been done in MMO's that have nothing to do with gear grinds or carrot on the stick time-sinks.
Maybe ArenaNet could expand upon the game and add one or two of those features you mentioned, in the future. Maybe in some kind of Expansion.
Funny enough they already have one of those from what I've seen but I'll let that remain a mistery lol.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
End game starts at lv-...You know what. Forget it..
Shhhh they not suppose to know this yet lol
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Hey all, I was just browsing some random gaming forums and I noticed some people saying they weren't sure what would keep people playing at the lvl cap. From all the vids and things I have heard about this game...for me personally the combat looks fun, the classes interesting and they have a really nice looking world pvp thing going on. I'm a big fan of pvp in mmos, though im pretty bad in general. My understanding is there will be very difficult 5 man dungeons and such at end game for the pve crowd and the aforementioned WvWvW and Rated PVP for pvpers. That seems like plenty to me.
Are the people saying it wont hold some at lvl cap just bitter we aren't getting 10 man+ raids with a gear grind? What is up with the gear in GW2? Would anyone be so kind as to fill me in on whats known about the role gear plays in pve/pvp endgame? I understand rated pvp gear plays no roled whatsoever as you get pre-made gear. But as far as pve and WvWvW are we looking at a grind? Or more like negligable stat increases and mostly cosmetic stuff?
People just have to change their perceptions. They've been programmed into a predetermined rading schedule for so long that anything that gets away from that is automatically lacking.
If GW2 does one thing, it's that i hope it gets rid of the "raid loggers". I cannot stand them and i think they ruin communities. I miss the days when everyone logged in every day and stayed active all the time.
End game starts at lv-...You know what. Forget it..
Doesn't that make things worse in terms of longtivity?
Seriouly imagine playing any other MMO, you spent weeks leveling to max level, when you get there you ask, "Hey whats there to do now?" and your response is, "Guess what you've been playing it the whole time!".
If Anet actually wants me to buy X-pacs and and what ever they throw in their store, they best have an acceptable endgame or else I might do what I did with first GW and just wait till they bundel it up.
With all the complaints over SWTOR's and RIFTs lack of endgame content I think this site would be up in arms.
End game starts at lv-...You know what. Forget it..
Doesn't that make things worse in terms of longtivity?
Seriouly imagine playing any other MMO, you spent weeks leveling to max level, when you get there you ask, "Hey whats there to do now?" and your response is, "Guess what you've been playing it the whole time!".
If Anet actually wants me to buy X-pacs and and what ever they throw in their store, they best have an acceptable endgame or else I might do what I did with first GW and just wait till they bundel it up.
With all the complaints over SWTOR's and RIFTs lack of endgame content I think this site would be up in arms.
Rift has a lot more endgame content then SWTOR that is for sure
With all the complaints over SWTOR's and RIFTs lack of endgame content I think this site would be up in arms.
Woah there. Don't throw these 2 together. Rift actually has endgame content.
Swtor had more end game raids at launch than rift did and it you saw how much screaming and ranting there was about lack of content. Given that GW 2 has no end game content specifically it will be interesting to see how the rabid fanatics try to turn this one around after the ravaging the same forum members gave swtor.
Comments
Not saying that their cna't be any structured chaos, but the way GW2 is doing dynamic events, which from what I have seen seems to be nothing but a dungeon finder so sorts, walk in on the DE and boom you;re in it.
And I think because of THAT it will become more or less a mindless zerg, the lack of a trinity beyond the closest person is now the tank doesn;t really help.
Its the way its set up. As far as them dying? Its a new MMO with a different set up. I died about 20 times when I first started playing Darkfall.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
No offense, but you shouldn't come to a forum dedicated to a game and expect objectivity. I guess for me personally I'm so used to getting the same Quest hub type system for so long, the prospect of doing it differently excites me and I don't really see a negative. This next statement about the GW2 classes being homogenized is totally ridiculous, you realize that word means that the classes are the same? If I didn't know better I would say your complaining about the lack of "holy trinity". Will people zerg content? Of course they will, do you know of some other game where nobody zergs? Do people not zerg in mmos that have dedicated tanks and healers?
I can see why you disagree alot with what is said, from this post i can understand what you define as an mmo now. For you mmos are games with gear grinds, raids and the holy trinity. To me MMO's are games you play online with alot of people at once. I'm open and positive about any new concepts and ideas devs wanna try. This industry is still in it's infancy. As technology gets better and better the genre is going to branch out quite a bit I think.
I guess i'm left with a confused feeling I guess, you seem to like traditional mmo's more then you like the idea of GW2.So my question is what game do you play now and why even leave if its already what your looking for?
Which is (or should be) the crux of it all. It's the only thing I really care about personally, that much is for sure.
Videos, opinion pieces, dev presentations,etc.. may fill us in on how mechanics work, they may show us a glimpse of the game, but thats where it ends. There are just too many variables that can not be represented to know for sure about anything.
In the case of an MMO a large part of what guides the experience from one extreme to another is how the community plays it. This will determine the overall quality of the game in many ways.
For all we know at this point, WvW could turn into an exploit fest (cough*Ilum*Cough) or worse. It's all in whether the players are interested in playing the game, or cheating their way through it; not to mention how the devs respond if the latter is the case.
Whether people are helpful or jerks, etc.. makes a big difference as well.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Well I would assume that Snaylor is interested in at least a few of the things GW2 is bringing to the table, otherwise he wouldn't be here.
I do think when you play a new game, especially one that deviates from a lot of the stuff that was in a lot of the other games, you have to start it with an open mind. The biggest hurdle the game will have, I feel, is the preconceptions and habits from gamers not used to the franchise.
Million dollar question really.
Because I don't feel somesort of mythic connection to whatever MMO I am playing and I believe that I can get enjoyment from different types of games.
http://www.cad-comic.com/cad/20080227
Really sums my opinion of forums. As someone who tries rather hard to see both sides of an issue, I get called a fanboi and a hater constantly. simular things happened to me on the TOR forums when I suggested a LFD Tool, I got called a hater, then (On this site) when I suggested that people shold cool their jets over a game that just released I got called a fanboi.
Chances are I'll defend this game when the time comes but for now, and for its own sake. I'll try to keep my critisisms reasonable.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
I could only see that being a problem for people who only play one type of game. For anyone who plays multiple genre's it shouldn't be much of an issue. I'm sure they're following some gaming convention with their game-play.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
PVE
-Game world exploration (many interesting event may not have been experience yet due to the DE)
-Multiple route dungeon just for the challenge (some of GW1 dungeon are really tough so i expect the same for GW2)
-Mini games (casual intra guild contest anyone?)
-Role playing (Fancy forming a fellowship to roleplay and travel from divinity coast to rata sum? DE encountered + RP = GG)
PVP
-WvWvW
-Esport type arena pvp
-guild vs guild?
In guild wars 1, the game *begins* at the level cap.
I imagine the level caps wont mean anything and will just be a guide of progress and not something you do for progression. After the level cap, you keep doing stuff to get awesome loot and experience the dynamic events. If you only play a game just to level up, you should play a game where you a click a button and constantly level up forever. Seriously.
It isn't, that's the main reason why people are so excited about it. If you level up in GW2, you gain access to new areas of the world, but the ones you came from are still valid for playing, and since you may have missed events while you were there the first time, there's even a reason to go back, at least for a few times. It's not going to keep your interest forever, but at least it's not one-use only.
Funny because from the posters only two got what I meant, I like how in order to answer the question we can't list games with endgames with like WoW, apparently if games required carrot on a stick in order to have high retention mmorpgs aside from WoW would not be having retention issues. Snaylor you are correct lol. Creslin you already asked what I was going to ask but you ninja'd me, maybe I should of been more clear about endgame.
Now what is ANETs focus? Well when an MMO goal in endgame are the exact same as WoW then you should expect WoW type endgame and high retention. It's funny because I beat this to death, ANET's goal is to not make the next WoW, that's where all these other devs in the past have tried and to be honest I can't name one who succeeded. Eve obviously didn't try to make the next WoW. It's really easy to see, if you guys look at this objectively you'll see PVE content literally has much more of replayability with one character than most mmorpgs. Just gotta think outside the box a bit. Which I'll just let the game speak for itself post release.
Edited: This is why I see so much hypocrisy, I can't with a straight face name an MMO that has WoW's same endgame "goal," that has surpassed WoW and/or has no retention issues. Same complaints about the endgame content. There really aren't that many in games who's endgame isn't only a carrot on a stick. Like I said in another thread I'd rather have the ability to eat my carrot, grow my own carrots and them eat them, and have them grow them selves and then eat it, rather than chase the carrot.
We could say WoW copied EQ, well yea becaus that was in 04 but trying that B/S now doesn't work and you guys know it. So what are the alternatives? Well see when you have scaling in an MMO and events that chain an can be missed, hidden areas that are hard themselves, a personal story that scales an could by itself level you from level 1-80 lol, I'll be damn if I get bored on that by itself, not to mention the social aspects and mini games with ranks themselves that are actually not half assed. Dungeons have events in them so run through the same explorable dungeon 5 times and you can still find something different occuring. I'm going to cut it there, you guys could look more into the PVE content if you'd like.
At the end of the day quantity doesn't equal quality. Now I'm outtie y'all can keep arguing, keep trying to spin ish, keep doig what makes you feel better, it's life, so I understand when being met with many dissappointments it's only natural to assume the same for the next game, luckily for me I found an MMO that for the first time I can see based off my experience that I'll atleast hit cap but literally stick to it.
I'm not good with typing long "essays." I hope this helps, sure it'll be TL:DR but oh well. Oh and takecare.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Actually, many people do repeat content, either to help other newer members to the game level up, farm for materials, because it's fun, play alts, etc. Your playstyle of 'If i've already seen/done it once/twice, i rather never do the same thing again, ' is fine. You can either play WvW, personal storylines, dungeons, Competitive PvP, or not. The publisher/devs got your money already, and if you truly enjoyed the game, they will get it the next time to. This is the beauty of BtP.
My idea realted to endgame: it is unneccesary. A BtP game does not require retention it requires support of future sales. Think about the difference between a Real Estate agent and a Landlord. A Real Estate agent is only interested in selling the house in front of them, and by creating a great experience with their current clients, they hope for future clients and listings. In other words, a great game means happy players with the game before them, which hopefully leads to better and better sales of new content over time. A landlord is interested in keeping the house rented, i.e. retaining someone to pay bills related to the house and some profit. A landlord SHOULD keep up the property, make his renters happy, but that is generally not the case. Many, if not most, landlords will find the cheapest way to keep up appearances in an attempt to retain their current renters. A very different attitude.
So here's my point: There is endgame content, completely dissimilar to what the current playerbase expects. Will it prove worthwhile enough to bring 'endgamers' back to the game with a new release? That answer will be up to those that have the requirements for this type of content. Will this be something that seriously hurts GW2? I don't think so, as I believe there are more people that enjoy the ride than enjoy the destination.
No, there is no seperate game mode for guild vs guild. Guilds will likely dominate in Structered PvP however and they can take over, hold and upgrade keeps in WvWvW.
There are plenty of options that create long term play that have nothing at all to do with the WOW model. Giving ownership of the gameworld to the players as an example (EVE, Shadowbane). Create on-going live events that dynamically alter a zone, and make players fight to return it to normal (not sure if anyone does this). Create a real economic atmosphere for players to shape, (UO, EVE, SWG). this list could be huge. Lot's of things have been done in MMO's that have nothing to do with gear grinds or carrot on the stick time-sinks.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
That's my point lol.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Maybe ArenaNet could expand upon the game and add one or two of those features you mentioned, in the future. Maybe in some kind of Expansion.
Funny enough they already have one of those from what I've seen but I'll let that remain a mistery lol.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
End game starts at lv-...You know what. Forget it..
Shhhh they not suppose to know this yet lol
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
PvP with your guild?
People just have to change their perceptions. They've been programmed into a predetermined rading schedule for so long that anything that gets away from that is automatically lacking.
If GW2 does one thing, it's that i hope it gets rid of the "raid loggers". I cannot stand them and i think they ruin communities. I miss the days when everyone logged in every day and stayed active all the time.
Doesn't that make things worse in terms of longtivity?
Seriouly imagine playing any other MMO, you spent weeks leveling to max level, when you get there you ask, "Hey whats there to do now?" and your response is, "Guess what you've been playing it the whole time!".
If Anet actually wants me to buy X-pacs and and what ever they throw in their store, they best have an acceptable endgame or else I might do what I did with first GW and just wait till they bundel it up.
With all the complaints over SWTOR's and RIFTs lack of endgame content I think this site would be up in arms.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
Woah there. Don't throw these 2 together. Rift actually has endgame content.
Rift has a lot more endgame content then SWTOR that is for sure
Swtor had more end game raids at launch than rift did and it you saw how much screaming and ranting there was about lack of content. Given that GW 2 has no end game content specifically it will be interesting to see how the rabid fanatics try to turn this one around after the ravaging the same forum members gave swtor.