Theres nothing to us to grind or make us look like lab rats in a skinner box when we reach on GW2 endgame O.O
We're doomed
Seriously
I think we're gonna play by the same reason people still play LoL when they reach level30:
Cause Its fun
League of Legends is a highly competetive PvP ranking game with a huge variety of different characters and mechanics and the last one is what gives it such longetivity.
GW 2 will for sure not have the last one but if they really flesh out the PvP system I guess that is a way to give it longetivity. I really hope they dont waste too much resources on PvE because there are so many other PvE focused MMORPGs out there.
If it sounds the same as wow to you, then you must have trouble with reading. There is no gear grind here, wow is nothing but a gear grind once you hit max level. Wanna arena? Better grind the best gear for pvp before anyone will even talk to you. Wanna raid? Again get your grind on. GW2 seems to be more about whether you enjoy playing it or not. I personally am not worried, I love pvp so thats my end game. I dabble in pve dungeons but I don't have the time or desire to grind gear for 3 hour raids.
More then a couple of the professions interest me, seems like each one has many build possibilities. The WvWvW is also something we just haven't seen in an mmo since DAOC. Warhammer tried but they tried to hard to intergrate the pve with the world pvp and it ended up failing. Also the feel and mechanics of war really turned me off. I have seen some peolple rip on the WvWvW due to nobody using tactics or working together in the vids released. Really? It was a weekend beta where everyone playing was playing for the first time. I wouldn't be trying to work together either, I would be basically testing out skills and just enjoying my shiney new game.
Thanks for the replys, I have always hated the gear grind. I like getting gear, but I don't want the main mechanic that keeps me playing to be a gear grind. Gear should always be icing on the cake. Not the cake itself.
Other games already have "exploration, titles, achievements, crafting, rping, dungeons and the lot" Still people have exhausted themselves in a month or two.
And GW1 has been around since 2005.
WoW since 2004.
Your point is?
I don't know if there is a point.
Possibly that some people play too much?
Seriously, if someone can 'complete' the game's content in 2 months, they will have to have played 16 hours a day every day and not played WvW or any storylines other than the first one they did.
The game has roughly 1-1.5k hours of non-PvP, non repeated content by my best estimates (by comparison, ToR has about 400, most of the side quests being 'kill 10 X and collect 5 Y'). I played 1.8k hours of GW1 over 4 years. If someone can exhaust this game in 2 months they have serious issues and definitely no job or school.
If GW1 is any indication there will be plenty to do. I'm still working on the Hall of Monuments / titles / skill captures years later.
Theres nothing to us to grind or make us look like lab rats in a skinner box when we reach on GW2 endgame O.O
We're doomed
Seriously
I think we're gonna play by the same reason people still play LoL when they reach level30:
Cause Its fun
League of Legends is a highly competetive PvP ranking game with a huge variety of different characters and mechanics and the last one is what gives it such longetivity.
GW 2 will for sure not have the last one but if they really flesh out the PvP system I guess that is a way to give it longetivity. I really hope they dont waste too much resources on PvE because there are so many other PvE focused MMORPGs out there.
GW1 did PvP fantastically well, and WvW seems to hit the same spot Alliance battles and the competitive missions did in GW1, which i played a lot of
I'll play a lot of PvE (like i've said, there's a lot of it), but PvP is where i'll likely spend a good amount of time.
Other games already have "exploration, titles, achievements, crafting, rping, dungeons and the lot" Still people have exhausted themselves in a month or two.
And GW1 has been around since 2005.
WoW since 2004.
Your point is?
My point is, some will stick, some wont. If people tend to exhaust themselves, let them. No point in trying to "reason with them" by laying out what "stickers" do at cap.
I personally don't like alts at all, my main is my main and i don't ever give a second thought to an alt.
If the game can't keep me satisfied "at cap" i see no reason to stick with it for recycled content as an alt.
Other games already have "exploration, titles, achievements, crafting, rping, dungeons and the lot" Still people have exhausted themselves in a month or two.
And GW1 has been around since 2005.
WoW since 2004.
Your point is?
My point is, some will stick, some wont. If people tend to exhaust themselves, let them. No point in trying to "reason with them" by laying out what "stickers" do at cap.
I personally don't like alts at all, my main is my main and i don't ever give a second thought to an alt.
If the game can't keep me satisfied "at cap" i see no reason to stick with it for recycled content as an alt.
Indeed, do what you think is fun Arenanet aren't going to need you to play for 6 years straight. They'll make a good game, then you play it, hopefully enjoy the time you played it, and then potentially pick up the expansion when all that new content comes around. You can't make a successful B2P model by making a dull game that tries to trick you into playing by physchological techniques, because once you break free you don't tend to go back. They don't want you to feel like you 'broke free', they want you to feel like you had fun, and may play again when an expansion comes out.
I've owned GW1 for 4 years, but i've not played is constantly since. I've played in around 10 'bursts' of a month or two after the initial four months or so. I play the game when i feel like playing it.
awww bless some people want a carrot when they hit level cap. shame. *passes tissues to the tearful ones*
Honestly what game does not feel like a grind after 100s of hours of playing?
Fun combat (I thought WoW was fun to play at 60,70, 80 and 85) can only get you so far in terms of retention and goes with WvW what makes people think that others will play if there is little insentive to do so?
If they make WvW as fun as it sounds, I think a lot of people may be doing that. Look at FPS games. The "end game" is the battle, and people log in every day... for hours, just to battle. Also, this game is more open world and social. People will be building communities, although ANet needs to add more features for this. Player housing is part of that at some point.
I personally don't care much. I never did do end-game raiding and according to WoW's statistics, only a tiny part of the population does.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
awww bless some people want a carrot when they hit level cap. shame. *passes tissues to the tearful ones*
Honestly what game does not feel like a grind after 100s of hours of playing?
Fun combat (I thought WoW was fun to play at 60,70, 80 and 85) can only get you so far in terms of retention and goes with WvW what makes people think that others will play if there is little insentive to do so?
Gw1 manages not to for me, because the combat is difficult and challenging It's actually my most played game of all time. But even then, i haven't played it constantly for years, i've had several month long stints where i haven't even logged in. Then i'll go 'hmm, i feel like playing some guild wars'
But again: why does anyone need to play GW2 for 6 years straight? it doesn't benefit ANet compared to someone playing when they want to for 6 years. No game will ever 'sustain' (i.e. not play other games) any decent number of people through non-sinister mechanics for 6 years. ANet aren't making a sub game, they don't need to utilise sinister mechanics to keep players around. They just want to make a game people will want to buy expansions to.
That said, GW2 will certainly hold my attention far longer than any MMO like Rift or ToR has.
awww bless some people want a carrot when they hit level cap. shame. *passes tissues to the tearful ones*
Honestly what game does not feel like a grind after 100s of hours of playing?
Fun combat (I thought WoW was fun to play at 60,70, 80 and 85) can only get you so far in terms of retention and goes with WvW what makes people think that others will play if there is little insentive to do so?
I have more then a few games I have logged well over 100 hours on. As example L4D2, GW, Battlefield series and many more. I played wow for roughly 4 years and then quit. What kept me playing and coming back for more was the way the game played. It was fun to me, I had a mage and it was a blast. With the exception of GW which I'v been playing on and off since it came out. No other mmo held my attention for longer then a couple months.
People will most definately WvWvW the incentive is that its meaningful world pvp. If you do well you benefit every person on your server, i'm sure some kind of cosmetic gear upgrades will be offered as well. But If your only doing it for "what can i get". You probably don't like world pvp to begin with.
awww bless some people want a carrot when they hit level cap. shame. *passes tissues to the tearful ones*
Honestly what game does not feel like a grind after 100s of hours of playing?
Fun combat (I thought WoW was fun to play at 60,70, 80 and 85) can only get you so far in terms of retention and goes with WvW what makes people think that others will play if there is little insentive to do so?
Gw1 manages not to for me, because the combat is difficult and challenging
But again: why does anyone need to play GW2 for 6 years straight? it doesn't benefit ANet compared to someone playing when they want to for 6 years.
You can get challenging PvP from any game that that rated BG, same goes for combat if the person you are fighting isn't 5, and while your right in the fact that they don't need me to play for 6 years they do need me to A)Buy any type of DCL they throw out and Buy X-Pacs.
I see this as a large flaw in Anets design, the leveling curb is nill, They said it takes the same amount of time each level and it takes 1H 30M to level so thats about only 90H of leveling contont. There are no raids but from what I can gather there are hard mode type DE, but their is no insentive to do those out side of grapping the skin for your gear.
While looking forward to this game I think that like Bioware was with TOR the devs hearts are in the right places but come launch they are going to be hit with reality.
While looking forward to this game I think that like Bioware was with TOR the devs hearts are in the right places but come launch they are going to be hit with reality.
Actually more like we, the players are going to be hit with reality come launch.
Anet knows exactly what game they have made and what kind of game it is.
What is really funny is that Anet has told us again and again and again and again what type of game this is and some people just haven't gotten the message yet.
I have more then a few games I have logged well over 100 hours on. As example L4D2, GW, Battlefield series and many more. I played wow for roughly 4 years and then quit. What kept me playing and coming back for more was the way the game played. It was fun to me, I had a mage and it was a blast. With the exception of GW which I'v been playing on and off since it came out. No other mmo held my attention for longer then a couple months.
People will most definately WvWvW the incentive is that its meaningful world pvp. If you do well you benefit every person on your server, i'm sure some kind of cosmetic gear upgrades will be offered as well. But If your only doing it for "what can i get". You probably don't like world pvp to begin with.
PvP in general can only be so fun for so long, I doubt you where playing L4D2 or Battlefield for 4-6 hour gameplay sessions like you would an actual MMO.
The same can also be said for LOTRO on the PvE side. GW2 has a clear lack of PvE content in general, and if it wasn't for DE (I think because of this people are going easy then they should on it) I would say this game is one of the worst games to PvE in.
You can get challenging PvP from any game that that rated BG, same goes for combat if the person you are fighting isn't 5, and while your right in the fact that they don't need me to play for 6 years they do need me to A)Buy any type of DCL they throw out and Buy X-Pacs.
I see this as a large flaw in Anets design, the leveling curb is nill, They said it takes the same amount of time each level and it takes 1H 30M to level so thats about only 90H of leveling contont. There are no raids but from what I can gather there are hard mode type DE, but their is no insentive to do those out side of grapping the skin for your gear.
While looking forward to this game I think that like Bioware was with TOR the devs hearts are in the right places but come launch they are going to be hit with reality.
The issue of not having a levelling treadmill is only an issue to hardcore MMO players and actually attracts non-MMO gamers who hate the grindy feel I actually have more people ready to join my GW2 guild when it goes online who've never played an MMO than have 'Normal' gamers are looking forward to this game based on it's mechanics, and that's an indescribably huge deal.
As for challenging PvP, i'm sorry but i've never found any PvP in WoW-esque MMO 'challenging' in a good way. Just how it is. I'm sure it can be difficult, but it's not fun for me. GW1 has vastly more entertaining PvP because i know we're always on a level playing field and it's come down to skill, not time spent in the game. It's why i'm not a fan of unlock systems in FPS which give people tangible 'upgrades'.
I have more then a few games I have logged well over 100 hours on. As example L4D2, GW, Battlefield series and many more. I played wow for roughly 4 years and then quit. What kept me playing and coming back for more was the way the game played. It was fun to me, I had a mage and it was a blast. With the exception of GW which I'v been playing on and off since it came out. No other mmo held my attention for longer then a couple months.
People will most definately WvWvW the incentive is that its meaningful world pvp. If you do well you benefit every person on your server, i'm sure some kind of cosmetic gear upgrades will be offered as well. But If your only doing it for "what can i get". You probably don't like world pvp to begin with.
PvP in general can only be so fun for so long, I doubt you where playing L4D2 or Battlefield for 4-6 hour gameplay sessions like you would an actual MMO.
The same can also be said for LOTRO on the PvE side. GW2 has a clear lack of PvE content in general, and if it wasn't for DE (I think because of this people are going easy then they should on it) I would say this game is one of the worst games to PvE in.
Then your obviously not a PvPer, because we PvPers can do this stuff all day long baby!!!
And your comment on the lack of PvE is confusing, can you please link us the information where Anet promised you tons of PvE? Because I remember the devs saying GW2 will be a PvP game.
But really the answer is simple, if any player chooses to grind for gear instead of server pride, then this game is not for you, most likely.
While looking forward to this game I think that like Bioware was with TOR the devs hearts are in the right places but come launch they are going to be hit with reality.
Actually more like we, the players are going to be hit with reality come launch.
Anet knows exactly what game they have made and what kind of game it is.
What is really funny is that Anet has told us again and again and again and again what type of game this is and some people just haven't gotten the message yet.
Bioware would like to have a word with you...
Seriously though the PvE crowd makes up a huge % of MMO gamers and I simply feel that Anet is alinating them when compared to you run in the mil WoW clone.
For me there are three reasons to play an MMO, Friends, Fun and Rewards. So far GW2 has 1 of thoughs 3.
I have more then a few games I have logged well over 100 hours on. As example L4D2, GW, Battlefield series and many more. I played wow for roughly 4 years and then quit. What kept me playing and coming back for more was the way the game played. It was fun to me, I had a mage and it was a blast. With the exception of GW which I'v been playing on and off since it came out. No other mmo held my attention for longer then a couple months.
People will most definately WvWvW the incentive is that its meaningful world pvp. If you do well you benefit every person on your server, i'm sure some kind of cosmetic gear upgrades will be offered as well. But If your only doing it for "what can i get". You probably don't like world pvp to begin with.
PvP in general can only be so fun for so long, I doubt you where playing L4D2 or Battlefield for 4-6 hour gameplay sessions like you would an actual MMO.
The same can also be said for LOTRO on the PvE side. GW2 has a clear lack of PvE content in general, and if it wasn't for DE (I think because of this people are going easy then they should on it) I would say this game is one of the worst games to PvE in.
You are obviously thinking of raids. So other than raids, what pve content is it lacking?
Then your obviously not a PvPer, because we PvPers can do this stuff all day long baby!!!
And your comment on the lack of PvE is confusing, can you please link us the information where Anet promised you tons of PvE? Because I remember the devs saying GW2 will be a PvP game.
But really the answer is simple, if any player chooses to grind for gear instead of server pride, then this game is not for you, most likely.
Exactly, I can PVP everyday for hours and have fun from start to finish, especially if it's in an open world environment, which GW2's WvW is. It's PVE that drags me down.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I have more then a few games I have logged well over 100 hours on. As example L4D2, GW, Battlefield series and many more. I played wow for roughly 4 years and then quit. What kept me playing and coming back for more was the way the game played. It was fun to me, I had a mage and it was a blast. With the exception of GW which I'v been playing on and off since it came out. No other mmo held my attention for longer then a couple months.
People will most definately WvWvW the incentive is that its meaningful world pvp. If you do well you benefit every person on your server, i'm sure some kind of cosmetic gear upgrades will be offered as well. But If your only doing it for "what can i get". You probably don't like world pvp to begin with.
PvP in general can only be so fun for so long, I doubt you where playing L4D2 or Battlefield for 4-6 hour gameplay sessions like you would an actual MMO.
The same can also be said for LOTRO on the PvE side. GW2 has a clear lack of PvE content in general, and if it wasn't for DE (I think because of this people are going easy then they should on it) I would say this game is one of the worst games to PvE in.
Then your obviously not a PvPer, because we PvPers can do this stuff all day long baby!!!
And your comment on the lack of PvE is confusing, can you please link us the information where Anet promised you tons of PvE? Because I remember the devs saying GW2 will be a PvP game.
But really the answer is simple, if any player chooses to grind for gear instead of server pride, then this game is not for you, most likely.
They've never said it's a PvP focused game (it's both), which is why it's got around 1-1.5k hours of PvE content (yes that's a big variation because the dynamic events could be longer or shorter than a 10 minute average, and storylines could or could not share a lot of content).
If it's well executed (no lag or major balance issues) will be an almost never ending supply of gameplay, the fact that you're actively competing with YOUR community to climb the ranks is enough to keep people playing for a long time.
The fact that there's a time limit it's event better since you'll have an objective to achieve.
- PvP Ladders
Competitive pvp ladders, this alone will keep people playing for a long time.
- Your own PvP instances
Making a map where you decide the rules and who plays in it goes a long way to create enjoyable repeatable content, FPS games do this alot
- Explorable dungeons, explorable world, 1500 Events, at least 24 different personal stories, achievements, unique weapon/armor skins, World Bosses, World changing events, Crafting and collecting.
That's alot of PVE right there, i know that it will lack the carrot in the stick for some people (somehow that makes it ok to run Motel Core over 9000 times) but it's still alot of PVE.
Personally i'd like to see this options for endgame PVE:
- A huge 5 man incredibly hard instance that takes more then a couple of nights to finish with a two week lockout. (Without gear progression this makes alot of sense since it will always remain a really hard instance)
- Randomized instance (like Diablo)
- PVE area in WvWvW where you fight the other 2 factions for a chance to kill some random elite NPCs for weapon skins and rare crafting materials.
While looking forward to this game I think that like Bioware was with TOR the devs hearts are in the right places but come launch they are going to be hit with reality.
Actually more like we, the players are going to be hit with reality come launch.
Anet knows exactly what game they have made and what kind of game it is.
What is really funny is that Anet has told us again and again and again and again what type of game this is and some people just haven't gotten the message yet.
Bioware would like to have a word with you...
Seriously though the PvE crowd makes up a huge % of MMO gamers and I simply feel that Anet is alinating them when compared to you run in the mil WoW clone.
For me there are three reasons to play an MMO, Friends, Fun and Rewards. So far GW2 has 1 of thoughs 3.
I have more then a few games I have logged well over 100 hours on. As example L4D2, GW, Battlefield series and many more. I played wow for roughly 4 years and then quit. What kept me playing and coming back for more was the way the game played. It was fun to me, I had a mage and it was a blast. With the exception of GW which I'v been playing on and off since it came out. No other mmo held my attention for longer then a couple months.
People will most definately WvWvW the incentive is that its meaningful world pvp. If you do well you benefit every person on your server, i'm sure some kind of cosmetic gear upgrades will be offered as well. But If your only doing it for "what can i get". You probably don't like world pvp to begin with.
PvP in general can only be so fun for so long, I doubt you where playing L4D2 or Battlefield for 4-6 hour gameplay sessions like you would an actual MMO.
The same can also be said for LOTRO on the PvE side. GW2 has a clear lack of PvE content in general, and if it wasn't for DE (I think because of this people are going easy then they should on it) I would say this game is one of the worst games to PvE in.
I'm guessing you will dismiss this as just being a paid off ANet shill, but I wanted to let you know just in case you're actually interested in learning about GW2's PvE.
Comments
League of Legends is a highly competetive PvP ranking game with a huge variety of different characters and mechanics and the last one is what gives it such longetivity.
GW 2 will for sure not have the last one but if they really flesh out the PvP system I guess that is a way to give it longetivity. I really hope they dont waste too much resources on PvE because there are so many other PvE focused MMORPGs out there.
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If it sounds the same as wow to you, then you must have trouble with reading. There is no gear grind here, wow is nothing but a gear grind once you hit max level. Wanna arena? Better grind the best gear for pvp before anyone will even talk to you. Wanna raid? Again get your grind on. GW2 seems to be more about whether you enjoy playing it or not. I personally am not worried, I love pvp so thats my end game. I dabble in pve dungeons but I don't have the time or desire to grind gear for 3 hour raids.
More then a couple of the professions interest me, seems like each one has many build possibilities. The WvWvW is also something we just haven't seen in an mmo since DAOC. Warhammer tried but they tried to hard to intergrate the pve with the world pvp and it ended up failing. Also the feel and mechanics of war really turned me off. I have seen some peolple rip on the WvWvW due to nobody using tactics or working together in the vids released. Really? It was a weekend beta where everyone playing was playing for the first time. I wouldn't be trying to work together either, I would be basically testing out skills and just enjoying my shiney new game.
Thanks for the replys, I have always hated the gear grind. I like getting gear, but I don't want the main mechanic that keeps me playing to be a gear grind. Gear should always be icing on the cake. Not the cake itself.
If GW1 is any indication there will be plenty to do. I'm still working on the Hall of Monuments / titles / skill captures years later.
GW1 did PvP fantastically well, and WvW seems to hit the same spot Alliance battles and the competitive missions did in GW1, which i played a lot of
I'll play a lot of PvE (like i've said, there's a lot of it), but PvP is where i'll likely spend a good amount of time.
My point is, some will stick, some wont. If people tend to exhaust themselves, let them. No point in trying to "reason with them" by laying out what "stickers" do at cap.
I personally don't like alts at all, my main is my main and i don't ever give a second thought to an alt.
If the game can't keep me satisfied "at cap" i see no reason to stick with it for recycled content as an alt.
awww bless some people want a carrot when they hit level cap. shame. *passes tissues to the tearful ones*
Im wiht you on this one
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
Waiting for: Pathfinder Online
Indeed, do what you think is fun
Arenanet aren't going to need you to play for 6 years straight. They'll make a good game, then you play it, hopefully enjoy the time you played it, and then potentially pick up the expansion when all that new content comes around. You can't make a successful B2P model by making a dull game that tries to trick you into playing by physchological techniques, because once you break free you don't tend to go back. They don't want you to feel like you 'broke free', they want you to feel like you had fun, and may play again when an expansion comes out.
I've owned GW1 for 4 years, but i've not played is constantly since. I've played in around 10 'bursts' of a month or two after the initial four months or so. I play the game when i feel like playing it.
'tis good.
Themeparks need carrot, sanboxes don't or even themeboxes/sandparks.
By not offering any sandbox features, i think i'll exhaust myself within 2 months, like all other themeparks i've played.
Sandboxes on the otherhand, my longest sub was around 6-7 consecutive months on Darkfall (with some off months) for total of 2+ years.
ps. I'll get the game no doubt, but i'm quite fearful.
Honestly what game does not feel like a grind after 100s of hours of playing?
Fun combat (I thought WoW was fun to play at 60,70, 80 and 85) can only get you so far in terms of retention and goes with WvW what makes people think that others will play if there is little insentive to do so?
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
If they make WvW as fun as it sounds, I think a lot of people may be doing that. Look at FPS games. The "end game" is the battle, and people log in every day... for hours, just to battle. Also, this game is more open world and social. People will be building communities, although ANet needs to add more features for this. Player housing is part of that at some point.
I personally don't care much. I never did do end-game raiding and according to WoW's statistics, only a tiny part of the population does.
A sure sign that you are in an old, dying paradigm/mindset, is when you are scared of new ideas and new technology. Don't feel bad. The world is moving on without you, and you are welcome to yell "Get Off My Lawn!" all you want while it happens. You cannot, however, stop an idea whose time has come.
Gw1 manages not to for me, because the combat is difficult and challenging
It's actually my most played game of all time. But even then, i haven't played it constantly for years, i've had several month long stints where i haven't even logged in. Then i'll go 'hmm, i feel like playing some guild wars' 
But again: why does anyone need to play GW2 for 6 years straight? it doesn't benefit ANet compared to someone playing when they want to for 6 years. No game will ever 'sustain' (i.e. not play other games) any decent number of people through non-sinister mechanics for 6 years. ANet aren't making a sub game, they don't need to utilise sinister mechanics to keep players around. They just want to make a game people will want to buy expansions to.
That said, GW2 will certainly hold my attention far longer than any MMO like Rift or ToR has.
I have more then a few games I have logged well over 100 hours on. As example L4D2, GW, Battlefield series and many more. I played wow for roughly 4 years and then quit. What kept me playing and coming back for more was the way the game played. It was fun to me, I had a mage and it was a blast. With the exception of GW which I'v been playing on and off since it came out. No other mmo held my attention for longer then a couple months.
People will most definately WvWvW the incentive is that its meaningful world pvp. If you do well you benefit every person on your server, i'm sure some kind of cosmetic gear upgrades will be offered as well. But If your only doing it for "what can i get". You probably don't like world pvp to begin with.
You can get challenging PvP from any game that that rated BG, same goes for combat if the person you are fighting isn't 5, and while your right in the fact that they don't need me to play for 6 years they do need me to A)Buy any type of DCL they throw out and
Buy X-Pacs.
I see this as a large flaw in Anets design, the leveling curb is nill, They said it takes the same amount of time each level and it takes 1H 30M to level so thats about only 90H of leveling contont. There are no raids but from what I can gather there are hard mode type DE, but their is no insentive to do those out side of grapping the skin for your gear.
While looking forward to this game I think that like Bioware was with TOR the devs hearts are in the right places but come launch they are going to be hit with reality.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
Actually more like we, the players are going to be hit with reality come launch.
Anet knows exactly what game they have made and what kind of game it is.
What is really funny is that Anet has told us again and again and again and again what type of game this is and some people just haven't gotten the message yet.
PvP in general can only be so fun for so long, I doubt you where playing L4D2 or Battlefield for 4-6 hour gameplay sessions like you would an actual MMO.
The same can also be said for LOTRO on the PvE side. GW2 has a clear lack of PvE content in general, and if it wasn't for DE (I think because of this people are going easy then they should on it) I would say this game is one of the worst games to PvE in.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
The issue of not having a levelling treadmill is only an issue to hardcore MMO players and actually attracts non-MMO gamers who hate the grindy feel
I actually have more people ready to join my GW2 guild when it goes online who've never played an MMO than have 
'Normal' gamers are looking forward to this game based on it's mechanics, and that's an indescribably huge deal.
As for challenging PvP, i'm sorry but i've never found any PvP in WoW-esque MMO 'challenging' in a good way. Just how it is. I'm sure it can be difficult, but it's not fun for me. GW1 has vastly more entertaining PvP because i know we're always on a level playing field and it's come down to skill, not time spent in the game. It's why i'm not a fan of unlock systems in FPS which give people tangible 'upgrades'.
Then your obviously not a PvPer, because we PvPers can do this stuff all day long baby!!!
And your comment on the lack of PvE is confusing, can you please link us the information where Anet promised you tons of PvE? Because I remember the devs saying GW2 will be a PvP game.
But really the answer is simple, if any player chooses to grind for gear instead of server pride, then this game is not for you, most likely.
Bioware would like to have a word with you...
Seriously though the PvE crowd makes up a huge % of MMO gamers and I simply feel that Anet is alinating them when compared to you run in the mil WoW clone.
For me there are three reasons to play an MMO, Friends, Fun and Rewards. So far GW2 has 1 of thoughs 3.
I don't care about innovation I care about fun.
You are obviously thinking of raids. So other than raids, what pve content is it lacking?
Exactly, I can PVP everyday for hours and have fun from start to finish, especially if it's in an open world environment, which GW2's WvW is. It's PVE that drags me down.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
They've never said it's a PvP focused game (it's both), which is why it's got around 1-1.5k hours of PvE content (yes that's a big variation because the dynamic events could be longer or shorter than a 10 minute average, and storylines could or could not share a lot of content).
- World vs World vs World
If it's well executed (no lag or major balance issues) will be an almost never ending supply of gameplay, the fact that you're actively competing with YOUR community to climb the ranks is enough to keep people playing for a long time.
The fact that there's a time limit it's event better since you'll have an objective to achieve.
- PvP Ladders
Competitive pvp ladders, this alone will keep people playing for a long time.
- Your own PvP instances
Making a map where you decide the rules and who plays in it goes a long way to create enjoyable repeatable content, FPS games do this alot
- Explorable dungeons, explorable world, 1500 Events, at least 24 different personal stories, achievements, unique weapon/armor skins, World Bosses, World changing events, Crafting and collecting.
That's alot of PVE right there, i know that it will lack the carrot in the stick for some people (somehow that makes it ok to run Motel Core over 9000 times) but it's still alot of PVE.
Personally i'd like to see this options for endgame PVE:
- A huge 5 man incredibly hard instance that takes more then a couple of nights to finish with a two week lockout. (Without gear progression this makes alot of sense since it will always remain a really hard instance)
- Randomized instance (like Diablo)
- PVE area in WvWvW where you fight the other 2 factions for a chance to kill some random elite NPCs for weapon skins and rare crafting materials.
From your criteria I'd say it has all 3
This guy who actually PLAYED the game would disagree.: http://www.killtenrats.com/2012/02/22/gw2-press-beta-the-richest-pve-experience-part-1/
I'm guessing you will dismiss this as just being a paid off ANet shill, but I wanted to let you know just in case you're actually interested in learning about GW2's PvE.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?