Here's why the hate train is impotent: You all are screaming to the choir. You're on these boards, or Massively, or any other niche forum trying to convince people who already agree with you.
Meanwhile, BioWare and EA are spending marketing dollars in areas where you don't visit. I've seen ad posters at bus stops for cripes sakes, lol. They were just on Big Bang Theory as a plot device (or so I'm told). BioWare knows a lost cause, namely the hate train, when it sees it...and quite frankly has no interest in trying to pursuade you. No. They're going after the wide open world of geekdom out there who cares nothing of your crusades here at MMORPG.com.
If we are arguing with people how is it possible that we are trying to convince people who agree with us already?
And of course if something stating SW:TOR has 1.7m subs ends up on this board multiple times, in different months, we are obviously going to point out we believe it is false due to evidence we have received in the past and are currently gathering, rather than just ignoring it and letting EA continue to manipulate people.
If they initially stated they had 1.7m subs and nobody questioned it, we would not be debating it right now either. Everyone would still think it is fact, which is not something anyone wants, companies shouldn't be allowed to get away with twisting the informaiton.
Guys your getting excited over nothing! In a few months it will be clear what the numbers really are and if that makes any difference to the game in the long run.
Remember we who post here seem to have a different spin on what a MMO should be compared to the masses. WoW's model seems to be what is commerically viable, most posters here seem to depise that game. I have little piety for those who bought the game after seeing the reviews on here before release and than come post about the very same stuff that was warned. That said I'm enjoying the game for now and will continue to play until I've done multiple characters main stories. At this time I don't see anything high lvl that will hold my interest. I must agree with those that think the designers made a hugh mistake using this engine which doesn't seem capable of holding a large group of peeps in a single thread. Anyways i'm not upset about the value of what I'm paying for at this time and will quit paying when I hit that threshold.
Heres a tip for those that seem to think that the designers deliberately made the game this way to piss you off (STO, SWToR, etc), they didn't! I'm pretty sure they never even had you in mind lol!
Here's why the hate train is impotent: You all are screaming to the choir. You're on these boards, or Massively, or any other niche forum trying to convince people who already agree with you.
Meanwhile, BioWare and EA are spending marketing dollars in areas where you don't visit. I've seen ad posters at bus stops for cripes sakes, lol. They were just on Big Bang Theory as a plot device (or so I'm told). BioWare knows a lost cause, namely the hate train, when it sees it...and quite frankly has no interest in trying to pursuade you. No. They're going after the wide open world of geekdom out there who cares nothing of your crusades here at MMORPG.com.
This is all very true.
If they feel a certain demographic is problematic they are going to ignore them and go for customers that might actually want what they are peddling.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Here's why the hate train is impotent: You all are screaming to the choir. You're on these boards, or Massively, or any other niche forum trying to convince people who already agree with you.
Meanwhile, BioWare and EA are spending marketing dollars in areas where you don't visit. I've seen ad posters at bus stops for cripes sakes, lol. They were just on Big Bang Theory as a plot device (or so I'm told). BioWare knows a lost cause, namely the hate train, when it sees it...and quite frankly has no interest in trying to pursuade you. No. They're going after the wide open world of geekdom out there who cares nothing of your crusades here at MMORPG.com.
If we are arguing with people how is it possible that we are trying to convince people who agree with us already?
And of course if something stating SW:TOR has 1.7m subs ends up on this board multiple times, in different months, we are obviously going to point out we believe it is false due to evidence we have received in the past and are currently gathering, rather than just ignoring it and letting EA continue to manipulate people.
If they initially stated they had 1.7m subs and nobody questioned it, we would not be debating it right now either. Everyone would still think it is fact, which is not something anyone wants, companies shouldn't be allowed to get away with twisting the informaiton.
Apologies...my thought was incomplete regarding preaching to the choir. To clarify, you're trying to convince people who've already made up their minds...one way or the other.
That point also stands for debating 1.7m subs. You're trying to convince who? People on here? No. You're trying to win an interweb argument...plain and simple. Do you think Wall Street gives a flying fuck what you say on MMORPG.com? lol. They sure as hell don't. They DO care about what advisory companies like Cowen say, however. And if you think a company that survives by advising its investors is going to paint a rosey picture just to satisfy EA, you're woefully naive.
I'll take a Cowen estimate over some annonymous, unaccountable forum trolls who have zero skin in this game any day of the week.
Its so funny to watch these threads contradict all the trolling that goes on these forums and watch how so many who continue to be proven wrong over and over again desperately cling to generalities as if they represent everyone. First it was after the first 30 days, the game would fail. Then it was after the first sub month. Then its 3 months. Then its 6 months. Then its lets see what happens when we are all 90.
Ok folks, get a grip. Whether you like it or not, the game appeals to a certain crowd. They are not naive and its not that they didn't do their homework. Its that they just like it, just as most of the professional outlets did. They were tired of elves and gnomes and were tired of click, accept wall of text, ignore story, and grind. Get a grip and find something else to do, like a game to play that you actually enjoy. If anything there are way too many in these forums who actually didn't do their homework for something they don't like, still can't accept that people like themeparks, and continue to have ridiculous over-all judgements because of minor delayed omissions to the game that are about to be fixed or will be in the near future.
I like Skyrim better than this game, I doubt I'll be playing this as long as I initially played WOW (being that was my first MMO), and it won't stop me from playing GW2 in parallel, but its a solid polished game with tons of room for improvement, like just about every MMO before it.
You people saying CEOs lie while true THEY DO NOT LIE on offical financial reports or to investors as often as you may pretend to think. You cannot lie about something so easy to find out the truth about. Do CEOs misrepresent themselfs sure ? But they do not outright lie about offical numbers. What they do is mix that data in with other parts of the company so no one notices that is not lying or illegal, but it would be VERY illegal for them to say we have 1.7 mil Subscribers and not actually have that number in one way or another. What do you people not get about that ? He is giving an exact number CEOs DO NOT do that for investors when it would be so easy to get caught.
Not to mention Bioware and this game are a fraction of EAs revenue and business interest why would a CEO risk his job and freedom over such a small part of the company ?
No, he didn't give an exact number. He gave an estimate. What don't YOU not get about that?
He didn't give an estimate, he said near 1.7 million, which means its under 1.7 mil and he rounded up. The only estimates from this article came from a seperate industry analyst that estimated it will reach 2 million by june 2012. No where in the ceo's statement did he mention anything about estimating.
I think some of you are having a difficult time understanding the definition of estimate lol.
Boggles the mind.
And just under your post. The guy admits he was reading the article wrong.
Boggles the mind.
Electronic Arts CEO John Riccitiello has told investors that BioWare's Star Wars: The Old Republic (SWTOR) is up to nearly 1.7 million monthly subscribers as of the end of February. A "vast majority" of players have passed beyond the free month of playtime that comes with the game and are in full-on paid subscription mode.
That there is an estimate.
When you say:
He didn't give an estimate, he said near 1.7 million
You're saying he didn't give an estimate and then turn around and quote his estimate!
Dude, it's sad, read my sig, but they have virtually 1.7m current subs at the end of feb. now how many of those will fall down at the end of march is a different estimate.
Indeed, it is sad when Suzie Ford of MMORPG.com is either paid to give a positive opinion of SWTOR, or buys into the hype. I've seen mountains more evidence to the direct contradiction to her statement. I'll trust more than 1000 players all spamming youtube with how lifeless SWTOR is rather than a board admin on an MMO forum.
Additionally, they were correct in the fact that they "guestimated" their numbers rather than giving a definitive number on their subscribers. Additionally, they had 1.7million current subs in January. So either the numbers are going down, or they're not gaining ANY subscribers since January. So, again, SWTOR is not doing well, and will probably drop like a rock come another "Hope of the MMO genre" like GW2, TERA, etc etc.
I'll sit here and patiently wait for PlanetSide 2 !
riiight, good for you that the opinion of a whopping 0.058% of the subscriber base considering the world "lifeless" is proof enough.
So conversly that would make oooohhh I dunno, Auto Assault the best MMORPG ever produced because I'm sure we could find 0.058% of that games subscribers to agree.
He was clearly referring to the "mountains of evidence" he could see from the 1000 you tube videos showing the dead lifeless world rather than the opinions of 1000 posters, but hey, if you want to twist his words to make a "smart" comment then carry on.
yeah you're right, it's less than 0.058% becuase not all of them would be subscribers. I didn't mention "posters", but hey if you want to twist my words to make yet another smartass remark then carry on.
Making slurs against Suzie Ford for her journalistic opinion is pretty pathetic, much like most of anti-mmo garbage posted in these forums[mod edit]
I have made no slur against anyone, merely put a memorable quote in my signature, please explain how quoting someone's own words from an article they have written and published be a slur?
I wasn't refering to you, I was reffering to this;
Indeed, it is sad when Suzie Ford of MMORPG.com is either paid to give a positive opinion of SWTOR, or buys into the hype.
I had no intention of suggesting you had done such a thing.
You people saying CEOs lie while true THEY DO NOT LIE on offical financial reports or to investors as often as you may pretend to think. You cannot lie about something so easy to find out the truth about. Do CEOs misrepresent themselfs sure ? But they do not outright lie about offical numbers. What they do is mix that data in with other parts of the company so no one notices that is not lying or illegal, but it would be VERY illegal for them to say we have 1.7 mil Subscribers and not actually have that number in one way or another. What do you people not get about that ? He is giving an exact number CEOs DO NOT do that for investors when it would be so easy to get caught.
Not to mention Bioware and this game are a fraction of EAs revenue and business interest why would a CEO risk his job and freedom over such a small part of the company ?
No, he didn't give an exact number. He gave an estimate. What don't YOU not get about that?
He didn't give an estimate, he said near 1.7 million, which means its under 1.7 mil and he rounded up. The only estimates from this article came from a seperate industry analyst that estimated it will reach 2 million by june 2012. No where in the ceo's statement did he mention anything about estimating.
I think some of you are having a difficult time understanding the definition of estimate lol.
Boggles the mind.
And just under your post. The guy admits he was reading the article wrong.
Boggles the mind.
Electronic Arts CEO John Riccitiello has told investors that BioWare's Star Wars: The Old Republic (SWTOR) is up to nearly 1.7 million monthly subscribers as of the end of February. A "vast majority" of players have passed beyond the free month of playtime that comes with the game and are in full-on paid subscription mode.
That there is an estimate.
When you say:
He didn't give an estimate, he said near 1.7 million
You're saying he didn't give an estimate and then turn around and quote his estimate!
Dude, it's sad, read my sig, but they have virtually 1.7m current subs at the end of feb. now how many of those will fall down at the end of march is a different estimate.
Indeed, it is sad when Suzie Ford of MMORPG.com is either paid to give a positive opinion of SWTOR, or buys into the hype. I've seen mountains more evidence to the direct contradiction to her statement. I'll trust more than 1000 players all spamming youtube with how lifeless SWTOR is rather than a board admin on an MMO forum.
Additionally, they were correct in the fact that they "guestimated" their numbers rather than giving a definitive number on their subscribers. Additionally, they had 1.7million current subs in January. So either the numbers are going down, or they're not gaining ANY subscribers since January. So, again, SWTOR is not doing well, and will probably drop like a rock come another "Hope of the MMO genre" like GW2, TERA, etc etc.
I'll sit here and patiently wait for PlanetSide 2 !
riiight, good for you that the opinion of a whopping 0.058% of the subscriber base considering the world "lifeless" is proof enough.
So conversly that would make oooohhh I dunno, Auto Assault the best MMORPG ever produced because I'm sure we could find 0.058% of that games subscribers to agree.
He was clearly referring to the "mountains of evidence" he could see from the 1000 you tube videos showing the dead lifeless world rather than the opinions of 1000 posters, but hey, if you want to twist his words to make a "smart" comment then carry on.
yeah you're right, it's less than 0.058% becuase not all of them would be subscribers. I didn't mention "posters", but hey if you want to twist my words to make yet another smartass remark then carry on.
Making slurs against Suzie Ford for her journalistic opinion is pretty pathetic, much like most of anti-mmo garbage posted in these forums[mod edit]
I have made no slur against anyone, merely put a memorable quote in my signature, please explain how quoting someone's own words from an article they have written and published be a slur?
I wasn't refering to you, I was reffering to this;
Indeed, it is sad when Suzie Ford of MMORPG.com is either paid to give a positive opinion of SWTOR, or buys into the hype.
I had no intention of suggesting you had done such a thing.
Ok, but you replied to my comment so thanks for clarifying that.
Know what is funny when I link the server status at prime time and they actually say look the game is doing well when there is not even one full server. You can't argue with a few of these people here because they refuse to see the writing on the wall.
Cracks me up, some of you trying to portray critics as haters. I wonder when it will get it through your dense skulls that the critics don't hate the game, just don't particularly care for it either.
Like every other publisher, EA lies like the best of them. If you believe their numbers you have bigger issues to resolve.
I can guarentee they will be merging servers before years end. Just not enough content to keep people playing.
Know what is funny when I link the server status at prime time and they actually say look the game is doing well when there is not even one full server. You can't argue with a few of these people here because they refuse to see the writing on the wall.
What difference does it make? There are enough players playing and its profitable. Who cares if the servers are full. All that matters is that there is enough of a population to do the things one needs to do. I haven't had any issue finding groups since Launch. Some of you with your desperate arguments. A game has to have full servers regardless of the number of servers to be a success? Who wrote the book on that?
Know what is funny when I link the server status at prime time and they actually say look the game is doing well when there is not even one full server. You can't argue with a few of these people here because they refuse to see the writing on the wall.
What difference does it make? There are enough players playing and its profitable. Who cares if the servers are full. All that matters is that there is enough of a population to do the things one needs to do. I haven't had any issue finding groups since Launch. Some of you with your desperate arguments. A game has to have full servers regardless of the number of servers to be a success? Who wrote the book on that?
When a game goes from 25+ full severs, 30+ very heavy to none there is a population loss, that is the point most of us are trying to state but man, you guys don't get it.
Cracks me up, some of you trying to portray critics as haters. I wonder when it will get it through your dense skulls that the critics don't hate the game, just don't particularly care for it either.
Like every other publisher, EA lies like the best of them. If you believe their numbers you have bigger issues to resolve.
I can guarentee they will be merging servers before years end. Just not enough content to keep people playing.
Cracks me up when people post ridiculous guarantees. If your post had any merit, SWG would have folded years ago, along with AOC, Aion, Warhammer, etc. It sounds like to me people have bigger issues in trying to discredit something successful even if it didn't meet the expectations of those who didn't do their homework.
Know what is funny when I link the server status at prime time and they actually say look the game is doing well when there is not even one full server. You can't argue with a few of these people here because they refuse to see the writing on the wall.
What difference does it make? There are enough players playing and its profitable. Who cares if the servers are full. All that matters is that there is enough of a population to do the things one needs to do. I haven't had any issue finding groups since Launch. Some of you with your desperate arguments. A game has to have full servers regardless of the number of servers to be a success? Who wrote the book on that?
When a game goes from 25+ full severs, 30+ very heavy to none there is a population loss, that is the point most of us are trying to state but man, you guys don't get it.
Its called a Launch and has followed the trend of every game in the last 10 years. Is this your first MMO?
Know what is funny when I link the server status at prime time and they actually say look the game is doing well when there is not even one full server. You can't argue with a few of these people here because they refuse to see the writing on the wall.
What difference does it make? There are enough players playing and its profitable. Who cares if the servers are full. All that matters is that there is enough of a population to do the things one needs to do. I haven't had any issue finding groups since Launch. Some of you with your desperate arguments. A game has to have full servers regardless of the number of servers to be a success? Who wrote the book on that?
When a game goes from 25+ full severs, 30+ very heavy to none there is a population loss, that is the point most of us are trying to state but man, you guys don't get it.
Its called a Launch and has followed the trend of every game in the last 10 years. Is this your first MMO?
So now that you agree with the loss, please tell me how they have the same amount of subs from a month ago? Please oh please explain that to me
Cracks me up, some of you trying to portray critics as haters. I wonder when it will get it through your dense skulls that the critics don't hate the game, just don't particularly care for it either.
Like every other publisher, EA lies like the best of them. If you believe their numbers you have bigger issues to resolve.
I can guarentee they will be merging servers before years end. Just not enough content to keep people playing.
So anyone who takes their word for it, 1.7m ish, has issues, and yet the folks who have hundreds of posts dedicated to a game they didn't like, don't play or have never played are just simply honest critics? Whatever.
Know what is funny when I link the server status at prime time and they actually say look the game is doing well when there is not even one full server. You can't argue with a few of these people here because they refuse to see the writing on the wall.
Ok, lets play real here shall we.
Prime time : lots of you are tossing these words around a LOT here. Anyone have any set times for this mythical Prime Time? Is that your prime time, or Fred's Prime Time, or Sandy's Prime Time? Is that the hours your home from work, or the time your wife plays when your not home from work yet? Is that the time the people play in NY or in Denver? How about maybe its the people who play before they eat diner...or is it those that play after they eat diner? And exactly which time is that anyway?
Server Status : Nobody on these forums has ANY idea what the values are behind the names assigned to the server status page. Not to mention nobody here has any idea what the status is on those servers when you are not sitting there watching it. SO lets cut the crap on this one too please. This has no intrinsic value whatsoever to the facts behind how many people are playing this, or any other game. Do the world a favor and stop trying to make it.
Location Population : Seriously, Ok, so you seen a number on the top of your screen. It shows you what again? Ahh thats right, when I am standing in a particular area, at any given time, in whatever phase I am in, and removing any other areas in that area which are counted seperately from my particular area, it then shows me how many people there are logged in. Yeah, did you all get all that this time around? No, you can only get a snapshot idea of how many people might be around you doing similar things to you. You can not formulate server population off this small sampling.
Videos on YouTube : Oh yeah, we have all seen them. The guy that goes out of his way to find a place nobody goes, snaps a 2 min vid of that very fact, then drops it on YouTube screaming how empty the world is. Dude, seriously, ANYONE can make one of these in ANY game on the market. Hell, I'll bet you I can make one of these in GW2 on launch day even! They mean nothing, just someone droping a spin vid on everyone hoping the stupid believe the crap he is spoonin. Now I'm not calling anyone here stupid, I know nobody here would ever fall for something this rediculous.
Last but not least - my favorite - Xfire : No, no matter how many numbers you pull off that site, it will never represent the entirety of the gaming population. It simply can't, because we dont all use it. Every game that has come out in the past 3 years which I have played, the first thing I do when I join a guild is ask who uses XFire. I can count the number of people on two hands. And thats asking litterally thousands of people over the 3 years. Really, what you 10 people do with your time is fine, but dont dare to tell the rest of us that what you do determines what the rest of us are doing and thinking.
So yeah, if you can come up with some real facts for once, something we can sink our teeth into that will actually show us this mythical writing on the wall....then we will follow you right off that cliff any day. Until then, lets stick to truth please, not opinion.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Know what is funny when I link the server status at prime time and they actually say look the game is doing well when there is not even one full server. You can't argue with a few of these people here because they refuse to see the writing on the wall.
What difference does it make? There are enough players playing and its profitable. Who cares if the servers are full. All that matters is that there is enough of a population to do the things one needs to do. I haven't had any issue finding groups since Launch. Some of you with your desperate arguments. A game has to have full servers regardless of the number of servers to be a success? Who wrote the book on that?
When a game goes from 25+ full severs, 30+ very heavy to none there is a population loss, that is the point most of us are trying to state but man, you guys don't get it.
Its called a Launch and has followed the trend of every game in the last 10 years. Is this your first MMO?
So now that you agree with the loss, please tell me how they have the same amount of subs from a month ago? Please oh please explain that to me
I didn't say there was a loss from one month ago. I was referring from Launch. Why would I want to explain this kind of crap? There are players playing, the game is improving, I don't have inside info into their balance sheets or statistics, I just know that my guild size is still the same over the last 60 days, I expected a decrease from the first 3 weeks of Launch, and I can't think of any game that hasn't. Some of you live in unrealistic expectation bubbles that need to be bursted.
Know what is funny when I link the server status at prime time and they actually say look the game is doing well when there is not even one full server. You can't argue with a few of these people here because they refuse to see the writing on the wall.
What difference does it make? There are enough players playing and its profitable. Who cares if the servers are full. All that matters is that there is enough of a population to do the things one needs to do. I haven't had any issue finding groups since Launch. Some of you with your desperate arguments. A game has to have full servers regardless of the number of servers to be a success? Who wrote the book on that?
When a game goes from 25+ full severs, 30+ very heavy to none there is a population loss, that is the point most of us are trying to state but man, you guys don't get it.
Its called a Launch and has followed the trend of every game in the last 10 years. Is this your first MMO?
So now that you agree with the loss, please tell me how they have the same amount of subs from a month ago? Please oh please explain that to me
I didn't say there was a loss from one month ago. I was referring from Launch. Why would I want to explain this kind of crap? There are players playing, the game is improving, I don't have inside info into their balance sheets or statistics, I just know that my guild size is still the same over the last 60 days, I expected a decrease from the first 3 weeks of Launch, and I can't think of any game that hasn't. Some of you live in unrealistic expectation bubbles that need to be bursted.
well they had 1.7 at launch as well, so after you did state any MMO has a loss, but now you retract that statement, hummmm
Know what is funny when I link the server status at prime time and they actually say look the game is doing well when there is not even one full server. You can't argue with a few of these people here because they refuse to see the writing on the wall.
What difference does it make? There are enough players playing and its profitable. Who cares if the servers are full. All that matters is that there is enough of a population to do the things one needs to do. I haven't had any issue finding groups since Launch. Some of you with your desperate arguments. A game has to have full servers regardless of the number of servers to be a success? Who wrote the book on that?
When a game goes from 25+ full severs, 30+ very heavy to none there is a population loss, that is the point most of us are trying to state but man, you guys don't get it.
What don't we get? Your point that server status = subscriber numbers? Well obviously we can't 'get' a falsehood. What some of you FAIL to internalize is that server status DOES NOT equate to subscriber numbers. The most you can glean from server status reports is the amount of time people are playing.
If you have 13k players on a server, and they all play during prime time on a Friday night, that might give you a FULL status on the server. Four weeks later you still have 13k subscribers, but only 6k of them are now playing on a Friday night, the other 6k have decided to start seeing their girlfriends again. Guess what? Now the server status might read "Standard".
This downgrade of server status gives ZERO indication to the population of the server.
Videos on YouTube : Oh yeah, we have all seen them. The guy that goes out of his way to find a place nobody goes, snaps a 2 min vid of that very fact, then drops it on YouTube screaming how empty the world is. Dude, seriously, ANYONE can make one of these in ANY game on the market. Hell, I'll bet you I can make one of these in GW2 on launch day even! They mean nothing, just someone droping a spin vid on everyone hoping the stupid believe the crap he is spoonin. Now I'm not calling anyone here stupid, I know nobody here would ever fall for something this rediculous.
Actually the reference to the you tube video's was not in reference to the player population but rather about showing the dead sterile world of SWTOR, you know the one with all the NPCs that don't move, are stuck in action poses like statues, of a world without day or night or changing weather, the world that makes a mockery of Bioware claims to have created "a living breathing world" for their stories to be told to you in.
hm .. maybe people DID stay past their 30days paid time included with the game. The only reasons they would have done so, however, would have been if they [foolishly] bought into the multi-month game time card, or if they decided to play it out an extra month to see if anything changed before quitting for good.
I was in the latter group. Love SW to death, played swtor hoping that it would be everything KOTOR1+2 was in mmo form but in a new-generation format ... and after about 50 days wanted to punch every BioWare/EA dev who worked on this game in the face.
No seriously. That's what you get for popping a squat and dumping all over the Star Wars IP. Unforgiveable (imo).
P.S. I'll never buy another ea/bioware game again. me3/swtor sealed the f'ing deal on that one. Period.
I have several friends who were suckered into buying 6 months ... they quit after 1.
Who the hell is "suckered" into buying 6 months, sounds like there own idiotic fault and are no way victims unless EA charged them for 6 when they said 1 then well thats not even being sucked, but that was your friends faults for being dumb for subing to a game for HALF a year without fully finding out if you'll enjoy it more then 1.
hm .. maybe people DID stay past their 30days paid time included with the game. The only reasons they would have done so, however, would have been if they [foolishly] bought into the multi-month game time card, or if they decided to play it out an extra month to see if anything changed before quitting for good.
I was in the latter group. Love SW to death, played swtor hoping that it would be everything KOTOR1+2 was in mmo form but in a new-generation format ... and after about 50 days wanted to punch every BioWare/EA dev who worked on this game in the face.
No seriously. That's what you get for popping a squat and dumping all over the Star Wars IP. Unforgiveable (imo).
P.S. I'll never buy another ea/bioware game again. me3/swtor sealed the f'ing deal on that one. Period.
I have several friends who were suckered into buying 6 months ... they quit after 1.
Who the hell is "suckered" into buying 6 months, sounds like there own idiotic fault and are no way victims unless EA charged them for 6 when they said 1 then well thats not even being sucked, but that was your friends faults for being dumb for subing to a game for HALF a year without fully finding out if you'll enjoy it more then 1.
Know what is funny when I link the server status at prime time and they actually say look the game is doing well when there is not even one full server. You can't argue with a few of these people here because they refuse to see the writing on the wall.
What difference does it make? There are enough players playing and its profitable. Who cares if the servers are full. All that matters is that there is enough of a population to do the things one needs to do. I haven't had any issue finding groups since Launch. Some of you with your desperate arguments. A game has to have full servers regardless of the number of servers to be a success? Who wrote the book on that?
When a game goes from 25+ full severs, 30+ very heavy to none there is a population loss, that is the point most of us are trying to state but man, you guys don't get it.
What don't we get? Your point that server status = subscriber numbers? Well obviously we can't 'get' a falsehood. What some of you FAIL to internalize is that server status DOES NOT equate to subscriber numbers. The most you can glean from server status reports is the amount of time people are playing.
If you have 13k players on a server, and they all play during prime time on a Friday night, that might give you a FULL status on the server. Four weeks later you still have 13k subscribers, but only 6k of them are now playing on a Friday night, the other 6k have decided to start seeing their girlfriends again. Guess what? Now the server status might read "Standard".
This downgrade of server status gives ZERO indication to the population of the server.
So based upon that logic, when we have all light servers at prime time it really means that everyone is not playing but are still subbed???? Gotcha thank you for clearing that up for me.
hm .. maybe people DID stay past their 30days paid time included with the game. The only reasons they would have done so, however, would have been if they [foolishly] bought into the multi-month game time card, or if they decided to play it out an extra month to see if anything changed before quitting for good.
I was in the latter group. Love SW to death, played swtor hoping that it would be everything KOTOR1+2 was in mmo form but in a new-generation format ... and after about 50 days wanted to punch every BioWare/EA dev who worked on this game in the face.
No seriously. That's what you get for popping a squat and dumping all over the Star Wars IP. Unforgiveable (imo).
P.S. I'll never buy another ea/bioware game again. me3/swtor sealed the f'ing deal on that one. Period.
This guy can read the minds of all 1.7 subscribers...scary.
Know what is funny when I link the server status at prime time and they actually say look the game is doing well when there is not even one full server. You can't argue with a few of these people here because they refuse to see the writing on the wall.
What difference does it make? There are enough players playing and its profitable. Who cares if the servers are full. All that matters is that there is enough of a population to do the things one needs to do. I haven't had any issue finding groups since Launch. Some of you with your desperate arguments. A game has to have full servers regardless of the number of servers to be a success? Who wrote the book on that?
When a game goes from 25+ full severs, 30+ very heavy to none there is a population loss, that is the point most of us are trying to state but man, you guys don't get it.
What don't we get? Your point that server status = subscriber numbers? Well obviously we can't 'get' a falsehood. What some of you FAIL to internalize is that server status DOES NOT equate to subscriber numbers. The most you can glean from server status reports is the amount of time people are playing.
If you have 13k players on a server, and they all play during prime time on a Friday night, that might give you a FULL status on the server. Four weeks later you still have 13k subscribers, but only 6k of them are now playing on a Friday night, the other 6k have decided to start seeing their girlfriends again. Guess what? Now the server status might read "Standard".
This downgrade of server status gives ZERO indication to the population of the server.
So based upon that logic, when we have all light servers at prime time it really means that everyone is not playing but are still subbed???? Gotcha thank you for clearing that up for me.
Strawman argument. You're making up an extreme example, and then refuting your own assumption. That's intellectually dishonest. In reality, at prime time, all servers are never fully light. What you do see, however, is about 8-10 light, about 6 very heavy, and the remaining 100 or so servers split between standard and heavy.
Comments
If we are arguing with people how is it possible that we are trying to convince people who agree with us already?
And of course if something stating SW:TOR has 1.7m subs ends up on this board multiple times, in different months, we are obviously going to point out we believe it is false due to evidence we have received in the past and are currently gathering, rather than just ignoring it and letting EA continue to manipulate people.
If they initially stated they had 1.7m subs and nobody questioned it, we would not be debating it right now either. Everyone would still think it is fact, which is not something anyone wants, companies shouldn't be allowed to get away with twisting the informaiton.
Guys your getting excited over nothing! In a few months it will be clear what the numbers really are and if that makes any difference to the game in the long run.
Remember we who post here seem to have a different spin on what a MMO should be compared to the masses. WoW's model seems to be what is commerically viable, most posters here seem to depise that game. I have little piety for those who bought the game after seeing the reviews on here before release and than come post about the very same stuff that was warned. That said I'm enjoying the game for now and will continue to play until I've done multiple characters main stories. At this time I don't see anything high lvl that will hold my interest. I must agree with those that think the designers made a hugh mistake using this engine which doesn't seem capable of holding a large group of peeps in a single thread. Anyways i'm not upset about the value of what I'm paying for at this time and will quit paying when I hit that threshold.
Heres a tip for those that seem to think that the designers deliberately made the game this way to piss you off (STO, SWToR, etc), they didn't! I'm pretty sure they never even had you in mind lol!
This is all very true.
If they feel a certain demographic is problematic they are going to ignore them and go for customers that might actually want what they are peddling.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Apologies...my thought was incomplete regarding preaching to the choir. To clarify, you're trying to convince people who've already made up their minds...one way or the other.
That point also stands for debating 1.7m subs. You're trying to convince who? People on here? No. You're trying to win an interweb argument...plain and simple. Do you think Wall Street gives a flying fuck what you say on MMORPG.com? lol. They sure as hell don't. They DO care about what advisory companies like Cowen say, however. And if you think a company that survives by advising its investors is going to paint a rosey picture just to satisfy EA, you're woefully naive.
I'll take a Cowen estimate over some annonymous, unaccountable forum trolls who have zero skin in this game any day of the week.
Its so funny to watch these threads contradict all the trolling that goes on these forums and watch how so many who continue to be proven wrong over and over again desperately cling to generalities as if they represent everyone. First it was after the first 30 days, the game would fail. Then it was after the first sub month. Then its 3 months. Then its 6 months. Then its lets see what happens when we are all 90.
Ok folks, get a grip. Whether you like it or not, the game appeals to a certain crowd. They are not naive and its not that they didn't do their homework. Its that they just like it, just as most of the professional outlets did. They were tired of elves and gnomes and were tired of click, accept wall of text, ignore story, and grind. Get a grip and find something else to do, like a game to play that you actually enjoy. If anything there are way too many in these forums who actually didn't do their homework for something they don't like, still can't accept that people like themeparks, and continue to have ridiculous over-all judgements because of minor delayed omissions to the game that are about to be fixed or will be in the near future.
I like Skyrim better than this game, I doubt I'll be playing this as long as I initially played WOW (being that was my first MMO), and it won't stop me from playing GW2 in parallel, but its a solid polished game with tons of room for improvement, like just about every MMO before it.
Congrats Bioware on the solid numbers.
There Is Always Hope!
I wasn't refering to you, I was reffering to this;
Indeed, it is sad when Suzie Ford of MMORPG.com is either paid to give a positive opinion of SWTOR, or buys into the hype.
I had no intention of suggesting you had done such a thing.
No, he didn't give an exact number. He gave an estimate. What don't YOU not get about that?
He didn't give an estimate, he said near 1.7 million, which means its under 1.7 mil and he rounded up. The only estimates from this article came from a seperate industry analyst that estimated it will reach 2 million by june 2012. No where in the ceo's statement did he mention anything about estimating.
I think some of you are having a difficult time understanding the definition of estimate lol.
Boggles the mind.
And just under your post. The guy admits he was reading the article wrong.
Boggles the mind.
Electronic Arts CEO John Riccitiello has told investors that BioWare's Star Wars: The Old Republic (SWTOR) is up to nearly 1.7 million monthly subscribers as of the end of February. A "vast majority" of players have passed beyond the free month of playtime that comes with the game and are in full-on paid subscription mode.
That there is an estimate.
When you say:
He didn't give an estimate, he said near 1.7 million
You're saying he didn't give an estimate and then turn around and quote his estimate!
Dude, it's sad, read my sig, but they have virtually 1.7m current subs at the end of feb. now how many of those will fall down at the end of march is a different estimate.Indeed, it is sad when Suzie Ford of MMORPG.com is either paid to give a positive opinion of SWTOR, or buys into the hype. I've seen mountains more evidence to the direct contradiction to her statement. I'll trust more than 1000 players all spamming youtube with how lifeless SWTOR is rather than a board admin on an MMO forum.
Additionally, they were correct in the fact that they "guestimated" their numbers rather than giving a definitive number on their subscribers. Additionally, they had 1.7million current subs in January. So either the numbers are going down, or they're not gaining ANY subscribers since January. So, again, SWTOR is not doing well, and will probably drop like a rock come another "Hope of the MMO genre" like GW2, TERA, etc etc.
I'll sit here and patiently wait for PlanetSide 2
!
riiight, good for you that the opinion of a whopping 0.058% of the subscriber base considering the world "lifeless" is proof enough.
So conversly that would make oooohhh I dunno, Auto Assault the best MMORPG ever produced because I'm sure we could find 0.058% of that games subscribers to agree.
He was clearly referring to the "mountains of evidence" he could see from the 1000 you tube videos showing the dead lifeless world rather than the opinions of 1000 posters, but hey, if you want to twist his words to make a "smart" comment then carry on.yeah you're right, it's less than 0.058% becuase not all of them would be subscribers. I didn't mention "posters", but hey if you want to twist my words to make yet another smartass remark then carry on.
Making slurs against Suzie Ford for her journalistic opinion is pretty pathetic, much like most of anti-mmo garbage posted in these forums[mod edit]
I have made no slur against anyone, merely put a memorable quote in my signature, please explain how quoting someone's own words from an article they have written and published be a slur?
I wasn't refering to you, I was reffering to this;
Indeed, it is sad when Suzie Ford of MMORPG.com is either paid to give a positive opinion of SWTOR, or buys into the hype.
I had no intention of suggesting you had done such a thing.
Ok, but you replied to my comment so thanks for clarifying that.Know what is funny when I link the server status at prime time and they actually say look the game is doing well when there is not even one full server. You can't argue with a few of these people here because they refuse to see the writing on the wall.
Cracks me up, some of you trying to portray critics as haters. I wonder when it will get it through your dense skulls that the critics don't hate the game, just don't particularly care for it either.
Like every other publisher, EA lies like the best of them. If you believe their numbers you have bigger issues to resolve.
I can guarentee they will be merging servers before years end. Just not enough content to keep people playing.
What difference does it make? There are enough players playing and its profitable. Who cares if the servers are full. All that matters is that there is enough of a population to do the things one needs to do. I haven't had any issue finding groups since Launch. Some of you with your desperate arguments. A game has to have full servers regardless of the number of servers to be a success? Who wrote the book on that?
There Is Always Hope!
When a game goes from 25+ full severs, 30+ very heavy to none there is a population loss, that is the point most of us are trying to state but man, you guys don't get it.
Cracks me up when people post ridiculous guarantees. If your post had any merit, SWG would have folded years ago, along with AOC, Aion, Warhammer, etc. It sounds like to me people have bigger issues in trying to discredit something successful even if it didn't meet the expectations of those who didn't do their homework.
There Is Always Hope!
Its called a Launch and has followed the trend of every game in the last 10 years. Is this your first MMO?
There Is Always Hope!
So now that you agree with the loss, please tell me how they have the same amount of subs from a month ago? Please oh please explain that to me
So anyone who takes their word for it, 1.7m ish, has issues, and yet the folks who have hundreds of posts dedicated to a game they didn't like, don't play or have never played are just simply honest critics? Whatever.
Ok, lets play real here shall we.
Prime time : lots of you are tossing these words around a LOT here. Anyone have any set times for this mythical Prime Time? Is that your prime time, or Fred's Prime Time, or Sandy's Prime Time? Is that the hours your home from work, or the time your wife plays when your not home from work yet? Is that the time the people play in NY or in Denver? How about maybe its the people who play before they eat diner...or is it those that play after they eat diner? And exactly which time is that anyway?
Server Status : Nobody on these forums has ANY idea what the values are behind the names assigned to the server status page. Not to mention nobody here has any idea what the status is on those servers when you are not sitting there watching it. SO lets cut the crap on this one too please. This has no intrinsic value whatsoever to the facts behind how many people are playing this, or any other game. Do the world a favor and stop trying to make it.
Location Population : Seriously, Ok, so you seen a number on the top of your screen. It shows you what again? Ahh thats right, when I am standing in a particular area, at any given time, in whatever phase I am in, and removing any other areas in that area which are counted seperately from my particular area, it then shows me how many people there are logged in. Yeah, did you all get all that this time around? No, you can only get a snapshot idea of how many people might be around you doing similar things to you. You can not formulate server population off this small sampling.
Videos on YouTube : Oh yeah, we have all seen them. The guy that goes out of his way to find a place nobody goes, snaps a 2 min vid of that very fact, then drops it on YouTube screaming how empty the world is. Dude, seriously, ANYONE can make one of these in ANY game on the market. Hell, I'll bet you I can make one of these in GW2 on launch day even! They mean nothing, just someone droping a spin vid on everyone hoping the stupid believe the crap he is spoonin. Now I'm not calling anyone here stupid, I know nobody here would ever fall for something this rediculous.
Last but not least - my favorite - Xfire : No, no matter how many numbers you pull off that site, it will never represent the entirety of the gaming population. It simply can't, because we dont all use it. Every game that has come out in the past 3 years which I have played, the first thing I do when I join a guild is ask who uses XFire. I can count the number of people on two hands. And thats asking litterally thousands of people over the 3 years. Really, what you 10 people do with your time is fine, but dont dare to tell the rest of us that what you do determines what the rest of us are doing and thinking.
So yeah, if you can come up with some real facts for once, something we can sink our teeth into that will actually show us this mythical writing on the wall....then we will follow you right off that cliff any day. Until then, lets stick to truth please, not opinion.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
I didn't say there was a loss from one month ago. I was referring from Launch. Why would I want to explain this kind of crap? There are players playing, the game is improving, I don't have inside info into their balance sheets or statistics, I just know that my guild size is still the same over the last 60 days, I expected a decrease from the first 3 weeks of Launch, and I can't think of any game that hasn't. Some of you live in unrealistic expectation bubbles that need to be bursted.
There Is Always Hope!
well they had 1.7 at launch as well, so after you did state any MMO has a loss, but now you retract that statement, hummmm
What don't we get? Your point that server status = subscriber numbers? Well obviously we can't 'get' a falsehood. What some of you FAIL to internalize is that server status DOES NOT equate to subscriber numbers. The most you can glean from server status reports is the amount of time people are playing.
If you have 13k players on a server, and they all play during prime time on a Friday night, that might give you a FULL status on the server. Four weeks later you still have 13k subscribers, but only 6k of them are now playing on a Friday night, the other 6k have decided to start seeing their girlfriends again. Guess what? Now the server status might read "Standard".
This downgrade of server status gives ZERO indication to the population of the server.
Actually the reference to the you tube video's was not in reference to the player population but rather about showing the dead sterile world of SWTOR, you know the one with all the NPCs that don't move, are stuck in action poses like statues, of a world without day or night or changing weather, the world that makes a mockery of Bioware claims to have created "a living breathing world" for their stories to be told to you in.Who the hell is "suckered" into buying 6 months, sounds like there own idiotic fault and are no way victims unless EA charged them for 6 when they said 1 then well thats not even being sucked, but that was your friends faults for being dumb for subing to a game for HALF a year without fully finding out if you'll enjoy it more then 1.
I have several friends who were suckered into buying 6 months ... they quit after 1.
Who the hell is "suckered" into buying 6 months, sounds like there own idiotic fault and are no way victims unless EA charged them for 6 when they said 1 then well thats not even being sucked, but that was your friends faults for being dumb for subing to a game for HALF a year without fully finding out if you'll enjoy it more then 1.
They were suckers for being suckered.So based upon that logic, when we have all light servers at prime time it really means that everyone is not playing but are still subbed???? Gotcha thank you for clearing that up for me.
This guy can read the minds of all 1.7 subscribers...scary.
Strawman argument. You're making up an extreme example, and then refuting your own assumption. That's intellectually dishonest. In reality, at prime time, all servers are never fully light. What you do see, however, is about 8-10 light, about 6 very heavy, and the remaining 100 or so servers split between standard and heavy.
So yes. My logic is sound.