SWTOR will finally be the death of WoW clones

mmoguy43

Well for me, TOR is the end of the WoW type. Because I won't play another one. I'll play ToR and that's it. If there is little change I'm not buying it.

remoteDef

I would pretty much agree with this sentiment. I think if you look at both SWTOR and Rift, it's pretty clear that this is as far as gamers really want to go with that model. Nobody's saying SWTOR is a failure (ok well some people are) but come on, it definitely is not living up to expectations. The monumental effort and budget that went into the attempt to seize the MMO market resulted in a distant second-place.

Then you look at Rift, which arguably adds to the WoW model the things people find most lacking - content updates and developer-community interaction, primarily - and you have a modestly successful MMO.

So either way, be it big-money or labor-of-love, re-hashing WoW is really not yielding excellent results.

And yea, as others have pointed out, the path that SWTOR is following is in no way similar to that of WoW. They couldn't open new servers fast enough to keep up with the demand for the first year or so of WoW. SWTOR on the other hand has a few highly populated servers and a bunch of ghost towns. The fact that they haven't opened a single new server really tells you all you need to know. Everyone who is going to play it is playing it currently or is done with it.

SEANMCAD

Originally posted by WhiteLantern

Originally posted by Amaranthar

Originally posted by WhiteLantern

Originally posted by Kuppa

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

I don’t know exactly what gamer demographic I would be in other than ‘core gamer who is not the most of hard core but is very ripe to spend a large amount of money for games and willing to commit to it’

Here is a list of MMOs I haven’t spent a single dime on:

WoW

Rift

Aion

LoTR

SWTOR

Soon to be on that list: Secret World and Guild Wars

 

 

Why? because they either look like a cartoon to me or they appear to have less depth that the community made mods in NeverWinter Nights (and I am not talking about in game stories)

 

Dang, what do you play?

These forums, I'd wager.

In that case, he'd be playing the better game.

Won't deny, some days................

just for the record it was Darkfall and Fallen Earth and then a long gaming break currently Skyrim which I know is not an MMO but nothing in the MMO market intrests me at the moment

Unknown

I really hope so ,but I also really doubt it.

FrodoFragins

Originally posted by bigsmiff

Yep...10 million+ at WoW and 1.7 million at SWTOR...it will go down in flames.  o.O

Sums it up just fine.

 

What MMO model is more profitable?

Ozmodan

Well it is certainly not dead, as Curt Schilling has as much professed, he wants to make a better EQ, so that MMO he is making will assuredly be another themepark in some manner.

My guess there is more on the way we don't know about.  You can pretty much imply that the unannounced blizzard project will be one.

Sovrath

Originally posted by Amaranthar

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by sekira

 

This should speak volumes that gamers are not looking for games that are "similar to WoW" anymore and do not wants games that fit the bill of a linear theme park. If WOWTOR monumentally collapses or does not experience great success (profit), I would expect more developers, if they haven't already, will begin to distance themselves from SWTOR/WOW as they realize now that advertising a game as a WoW clone should not be considered a selling point to get people interested in their MMO anymore.

 

Not even remotely close.

It would speak volumes if a company created a game with standard boiler plate mmo mechanics and NO ONE BOUGHT IT.

Or very few.

When 2 million players buy a game that has standard mmo mechanics it is pretty clear that the issue is not standard mmo mechanics.

Apart from the players buying it 'just because' I would say the real issue is that there is nothing for players to do once they reach level cap. Or at least, nothing that many players want to do.

So "no" the standard mmo formula isn't necessarily dead.

Yeah it is. Remember that a large portion of SWTOR's sales went to Star Wars collectors. Many more bought into the hype that it was going to somehow be "next gen".

But when the subs don't come in, and when the servers are dying, and the same thing has happened repeatedly before to other clones, you can count on the fact that Themepark is dead.

I hate to pull this card but "screen shot or it didn't happen".

You may very well be right but I suspect this is more forum talk than anything else. Really? Most of those 2 million people weren't mmo players but were star wars collectors? how do we know this? Honestly I don't recall, when I purchased the game, any tick box that asked me if I was an mmo player or a collector.

And again, you have to look at the "why" when you are compairing other mmos' with similar mechancis or "clones". Though truly, I don't buy the clone idea. If I did then I woudl be playing WoW with gusto over LOTRO.

Everytime someone has used that argument they conveniently leave off the idea that Aion advertised itself as one thing but the reality wasn't palatable to the players when they got into it, that AoC had huge issues at launch, that Warhammer didn't take advantage of the RvR elements and lost a lot of people who thought it was going to be the successor to DAoC.

these games didnt' "fail" because they used standard boilerplate mmo mechanics. (and did they fail? from what I see they are all still running years after launch).

However, I don't buy the "a game has to have millions of subs like wow or it failed'. Very few games can tout that they have millions of subscribers.

expresso

I look forward to a kickstart project being started in 20 years times looking to remake a WoW clone =D

SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Ozmodan

Well it is certainly not dead, as Curt Schilling has as much professed, he wants to make a better EQ, so that MMO he is making will assuredly be another themepark in some manner.

My guess there is more on the way we don't know about.  You can pretty much imply that the unannounced blizzard project will be one.

I think even Gary Gygax himself would say 'enough of this fantasy based MMOs already, ok we get it, thanks I invented it but f8ck me move on!'

just1opinion

 

Just commenting on the thread title alone.....I really think that's true.  SWTOR did just enough that was different (like voice over quests) and way TOO much that was the same (as WoW), and I really believe that it's going to become the line of demarkation (spelling?) from WoW clones to newer games with fresh implimentations like GW2, TSW, AA, to name a few.  I think finally the sh** has hit the proverbial fan and we're going to see some very NON-WoWish iterations in our near and far future.

SEANMCAD

Originally posted by just1opinion

 

Just commenting on the thread title alone.....I really think that's true.  SWTOR did just enough that was different (like voice over quests) and way TOO much that was the same (as WoW), and I really believe that it's going to become the line of demarkation (spelling?) from WoW clones to newer games with fresh implimentations like GW2, TSW, AA, to name a few.  I think finally the sh** has hit the proverbial fan and we're going to see some very NON-WoWish iterations in our near and far future.

if 'voice over quests ' is considered an innovated feature (which industry does) we might as well pack our bags and go play with ipads because at least innovation is really happening in that space

Zekiah

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by just1opinion

 

Just commenting on the thread title alone.....I really think that's true.  SWTOR did just enough that was different (like voice over quests) and way TOO much that was the same (as WoW), and I really believe that it's going to become the line of demarkation (spelling?) from WoW clones to newer games with fresh implimentations like GW2, TSW, AA, to name a few.  I think finally the sh** has hit the proverbial fan and we're going to see some very NON-WoWish iterations in our near and far future.

if 'voice over quests ' is considered an innovated feature (which industry does) we might as well pack our bags and go play with ipads.

Features are considered innovative when:

1) The developers say so

and

2) The gamers buy into it

When developer X says that stinky poo is innovative, helpless fanatic gamers flock to their defense. YES! YES! STINKY POO IS INNOVATIVE! YOU HATERS!

Gamers are so gullable.

Rhianni32

Originally posted by expresso

I look forward to a kickstart project being started in 20 years times looking to remake a WoW clone =D

LOL!

I have to wonder when we have old timer MMO players saying "Back in my day we had to play MMOs like we did back in WoW and liked it that way!"

Reklaw

Originally posted by sekira

It should be pretty apparent by now that SWTOR aka WOWTOR is not doing as well as Bioware or their fans had hoped. The game is already being discounted by $10 on origin, they are already offering multiple free weekends for the game, and one of the most replied to posts on the official forums is titled "Server population is dropping...". Yes it looks like it is the beginning of the end for this game.

 

When a company spends $200 million on a new game and instead of growth, the total population starts to decline (or stabilizies) as individual server populations drop noticeably, its an obvious sign that customers are not satisfied. The game also has a small number of subscribers relative to the total number of potential customers, compared to WoW 7 years ago which had an equal or possibly greater number of subscribers the same length of time after its' release, back when MMO's  were not as mainstream as today.

 Aug. 30th, 2005 Wow reaches 1 million players. Game released: November 23, 2004

So I geuss you made a simlilar topic about WoW's death back in 2004 3 months after it's release???

In fact SWToR surpasses World of Warcraft with subnumbers, so it's very hard to believe anything you said in your OP

 

This should speak volumes that gamers are not looking for games that are "similar to WoW" anymore and do not want games that fit the bill of a linear theme park. If WOWTOR monumentally collapses or does not experience great success (profit), I would expect more developers, if they haven't already, will begin to distance themselves from SWTOR/WOW as they realize now that advertising a game as a WoW clone should not be considered a selling point to get people interested in their MMO anymore.

 

I for one will not be playing another MMO until it is very innovative and different than a MMO I have played in the past, in particular, WoW. Developers should stop worrying about making a viable competitor in the MMO market that is nearly identical to WoW in order to appeal to that playerbase. Instead they really should be making it completely unlike WoW in order to compete with Titan, which I guarantee will probably be vastly different than WoW.

 

I suspect SWTOR will probably be the last wow clone we will see. Overall I think this is very good news for the genre, even at the expense of a game that had such a massive budge for a company eyeing major success.

 

 

RIP SWTOR "Tortanic"

 This is absolutely not in defence of SWToR cause I aint even playing or have played the game, but like to be informerd nevertheless but like to be informerd with actuall facts instead of wild geusses or make up stuff.

And if you have any sort of MMORPG experiance you already know that often certain servers do get lower populated. I feel it'sa  very hard thing to work with "do we need 20 servers up and running on release or do we need 5 servers on release and build upon that. Let's say they put up 5 servers up and running on release, imagine the queíng, which this day''s would put off people to rather not to play. Well with allot more server we see topics like this appear each and every time at almost every MMORPG that some person does not like.

SEANMCAD

Originally posted by Zekiah

Originally posted by SEANMCAD

Originally posted by just1opinion

 

Just commenting on the thread title alone.....I really think that's true.  SWTOR did just enough that was different (like voice over quests) and way TOO much that was the same (as WoW), and I really believe that it's going to become the line of demarkation (spelling?) from WoW clones to newer games with fresh implimentations like GW2, TSW, AA, to name a few.  I think finally the sh** has hit the proverbial fan and we're going to see some very NON-WoWish iterations in our near and far future.

if 'voice over quests ' is considered an innovated feature (which industry does) we might as well pack our bags and go play with ipads.

Features are considered innovative when:

1) The developers say so

and

2) The gamers buy into it

When developer X says that stinky poo is innovative, helpless fanatic gamers flock to their defense. YES! YES! STINKY POO IS INNOVATIVE! YOU HATERS!

Gamers are so gullable.

I literally laughed out loud. All true

rojoArcueid

its not that swtor shows that people dont want wow-like games anymore, Swtor was not bigger success because it resulted in a much inferior WoW-like game. Thats it. The game is still good and a star wars lore is refreshing among so many fantasy mmos. But thats it. Nobody is killing nobody. These mmos kill themselves because they are inferior games and the devs want us to pay a lot of money "to keep the game running and flowing with content". If the new released game is not better than the rest out there, dont even think about charging for it. Sell the damn box and forget about the rest. Thats why all these new game, according to players like the OP, die or get killed by other game.

Ambros123

Originally posted by Reklaw

Originally posted by sekira

It should be pretty apparent by now that SWTOR aka WOWTOR is not doing as well as Bioware or their fans had hoped. The game is already being discounted by $10 on origin, they are already offering multiple free weekends for the game, and one of the most replied to posts on the official forums is titled "Server population is dropping...". Yes it looks like it is the beginning of the end for this game.

 

When a company spends $200 million on a new game and instead of growth, the total population starts to decline (or stabilizies) as individual server populations drop noticeably, its an obvious sign that customers are not satisfied. The game also has a small number of subscribers relative to the total number of potential customers, compared to WoW 7 years ago which had an equal or possibly greater number of subscribers the same length of time after its' release, back when MMO's  were not as mainstream as today.

 Aug. 30th, 2005 Wow reaches 1 million players. Game released: November 23, 2004

So I geuss you made a simlilar topic about WoW's death back in 2004 3 months after it's release???

In fact SWToR surpasses World of Warcraft with subnumbers, so it's very hard to believe anything you said in your OP

 

This should speak volumes that gamers are not looking for games that are "similar to WoW" anymore and do not want games that fit the bill of a linear theme park. If WOWTOR monumentally collapses or does not experience great success (profit), I would expect more developers, if they haven't already, will begin to distance themselves from SWTOR/WOW as they realize now that advertising a game as a WoW clone should not be considered a selling point to get people interested in their MMO anymore.

 

I for one will not be playing another MMO until it is very innovative and different than a MMO I have played in the past, in particular, WoW. Developers should stop worrying about making a viable competitor in the MMO market that is nearly identical to WoW in order to appeal to that playerbase. Instead they really should be making it completely unlike WoW in order to compete with Titan, which I guarantee will probably be vastly different than WoW.

 

I suspect SWTOR will probably be the last wow clone we will see. Overall I think this is very good news for the genre, even at the expense of a game that had such a massive budge for a company eyeing major success.

 

 

RIP SWTOR "Tortanic"

 This is absolutely not in defence of SWToR cause I aint even playing or have played the game, but like to be informerd nevertheless but like to be informerd with actuall facts instead of wild geusses or make up stuff.

And if you have any sort of MMORPG experiance you already know that often certain servers do get lower populated. I feel it'sa  very hard thing to work with "do we need 20 servers up and running on release or do we need 5 servers on release and build upon that. Let's say they put up 5 servers up and running on release, imagine the queíng, which this day''s would put off people to rather not to play. Well with allot more server we see topics like this appear each and every time at almost every MMORPG that some person does not like.

Exactly how is SWTOR more successful than WoW in it's time?  WoW maintained and increased their sub numers, wasn't till around Cata that they really started hurting.  SWTOR had what every new MMO has, the "ooo shiney" launch influx and now are steadily losing players which will only get worse as GW2, TERA, ArchAge, TSW, TES MMO possibly and whatever else is getting released in the near future.  SWTOR will be what almost every other shittacular MMO has become, a game for a niche crowd.

SWTOR is the death of WoW clones cause it proved with it's "stellar" success that people really don't want another carbon copy of WoW.

SWTOR more successful than WoW in it's time my ass.

sekira

Originally posted by Reklaw

Originally posted by sekira

It should be pretty apparent by now that SWTOR aka WOWTOR is not doing as well as Bioware or their fans had hoped. The game is already being discounted by $10 on origin, they are already offering multiple free weekends for the game, and one of the most replied to posts on the official forums is titled "Server population is dropping...". Yes it looks like it is the beginning of the end for this game.

 

When a company spends $200 million on a new game and instead of growth, the total population starts to decline (or stabilizies) as individual server populations drop noticeably, its an obvious sign that customers are not satisfied. The game also has a small number of subscribers relative to the total number of potential customers, compared to WoW 7 years ago which had an equal or possibly greater number of subscribers the same length of time after its' release, back when MMO's  were not as mainstream as today.

 Aug. 30th, 2005 Wow reaches 1 million players. Game released: November 23, 2004

So I geuss you made a simlilar topic about WoW's death back in 2004 3 months after it's release???

In fact SWToR surpasses World of Warcraft with subnumbers, so it's very hard to believe anything you said in your OP

 

This should speak volumes that gamers are not looking for games that are "similar to WoW" anymore and do not want games that fit the bill of a linear theme park. If WOWTOR monumentally collapses or does not experience great success (profit), I would expect more developers, if they haven't already, will begin to distance themselves from SWTOR/WOW as they realize now that advertising a game as a WoW clone should not be considered a selling point to get people interested in their MMO anymore.

 

I for one will not be playing another MMO until it is very innovative and different than a MMO I have played in the past, in particular, WoW. Developers should stop worrying about making a viable competitor in the MMO market that is nearly identical to WoW in order to appeal to that playerbase. Instead they really should be making it completely unlike WoW in order to compete with Titan, which I guarantee will probably be vastly different than WoW.

 

I suspect SWTOR will probably be the last wow clone we will see. Overall I think this is very good news for the genre, even at the expense of a game that had such a massive budge for a company eyeing major success.

 

 

RIP SWTOR "Tortanic"

 This is absolutely not in defence of SWToR cause I aint even playing or have played the game, but like to be informerd nevertheless but like to be informerd with actuall facts instead of wild geusses or make up stuff.

And if you have any sort of MMORPG experiance you already know that often certain servers do get lower populated. I feel it'sa  very hard thing to work with "do we need 20 servers up and running on release or do we need 5 servers on release and build upon that. Let's say they put up 5 servers up and running on release, imagine the queíng, which this day''s would put off people to rather not to play. Well with allot more server we see topics like this appear each and every time at almost every MMORPG that some person does not like.

/facepalm

Read through the thread next time to avoid making yourself look blatantly lost.

1 million players on Aug 30 2005 is factually wrong. Trying doing some research next time (or simply read through the thread) instead of spreading misinformation. Funny you try to discredit my post but in fact all you did was discredit your own, good job.

With that said, I'm not going to even bother reading through the rest  of your post when its beyond clear that this thread is far beyond your level of understanding if you got such basic factual information wrong.

 

sekira

Originally posted by rojo6934

its not that swtor shows that people dont want wow-like games anymore, Swtor was not bigger success because it resulted in a much inferior WoW-like game. Thats it. The game is still good and a star wars lore is refreshing among so many fantasy mmos. But thats it. Nobody is killing nobody. These mmos kill themselves because they are inferior games and the devs want us to pay a lot of money "to keep the game running and flowing with content". If the new released game is not better than the rest out there, dont even think about charging for it. Sell the damn box and forget about the rest. Thats why all these new game, according to players like the OP, die or get killed by other game.

At the same time of answering your own question, you confirmed exactly what I already said and what should be obvious to you by now.

To be a WoW clone means to be a "much inferior WoW-like game". Is it not so? Sounds like a reasonable definition to me.

 

Reklaw

Originally posted by sekira

Originally posted by Reklaw

Originally posted by sekira

It should be pretty apparent by now that SWTOR aka WOWTOR is not doing as well as Bioware or their fans had hoped. The game is already being discounted by $10 on origin, they are already offering multiple free weekends for the game, and one of the most replied to posts on the official forums is titled "Server population is dropping...". Yes it looks like it is the beginning of the end for this game.

 

When a company spends $200 million on a new game and instead of growth, the total population starts to decline (or stabilizies) as individual server populations drop noticeably, its an obvious sign that customers are not satisfied. The game also has a small number of subscribers relative to the total number of potential customers, compared to WoW 7 years ago which had an equal or possibly greater number of subscribers the same length of time after its' release, back when MMO's  were not as mainstream as today.

 Aug. 30th, 2005 Wow reaches 1 million players. Game released: November 23, 2004

So I geuss you made a simlilar topic about WoW's death back in 2004 3 months after it's release???

In fact SWToR surpasses World of Warcraft with subnumbers, so it's very hard to believe anything you said in your OP

 

This should speak volumes that gamers are not looking for games that are "similar to WoW" anymore and do not want games that fit the bill of a linear theme park. If WOWTOR monumentally collapses or does not experience great success (profit), I would expect more developers, if they haven't already, will begin to distance themselves from SWTOR/WOW as they realize now that advertising a game as a WoW clone should not be considered a selling point to get people interested in their MMO anymore.

 

I for one will not be playing another MMO until it is very innovative and different than a MMO I have played in the past, in particular, WoW. Developers should stop worrying about making a viable competitor in the MMO market that is nearly identical to WoW in order to appeal to that playerbase. Instead they really should be making it completely unlike WoW in order to compete with Titan, which I guarantee will probably be vastly different than WoW.

 

I suspect SWTOR will probably be the last wow clone we will see. Overall I think this is very good news for the genre, even at the expense of a game that had such a massive budge for a company eyeing major success.

 

 

RIP SWTOR "Tortanic"

 This is absolutely not in defence of SWToR cause I aint even playing or have played the game, but like to be informerd nevertheless but like to be informerd with actuall facts instead of wild geusses or make up stuff.

And if you have any sort of MMORPG experiance you already know that often certain servers do get lower populated. I feel it'sa  very hard thing to work with "do we need 20 servers up and running on release or do we need 5 servers on release and build upon that. Let's say they put up 5 servers up and running on release, imagine the queíng, which this day''s would put off people to rather not to play. Well with allot more server we see topics like this appear each and every time at almost every MMORPG that some person does not like.

/facepalm

Read through the thread next time to avoid making yourself look blatantly lost.

1 million players on Aug 30 2005 is factually wrong. Trying doing some research next time (or simply read through the thread) instead of spreading misinformation. Funny you try to discredit my post but in fact all you did was discredit your own, good job.

With that said, I'm not going to even bother reading through the rest  of your post when its beyond clear that this thread is far beyond your level of understanding if you got such basic factual information wrong.

 

 You're right,  I should have added 1 mil+ NA players at 30 or 29 aug. 2005. My bad

Warjin

People are sick in the heads, really tell me what MMO are you playing thats sooooo much better?

If not WoW, Rift, Swtor, EvE and the list goes on then what MMO is the ("AkA" cream of the crop) in your eyes because if it's not one of those pay to play MMO then it's most likly a failed game.

I'm give you two reasons why many play those games.

1. They are fun

2. They have backing to support future content or (MMO Security)

MMO's are like financial investments, any logical person is not going to invest money into a failed business many will invest into a business that will be around a long time and generate money (aka content in MMO terms), games like Swtor, WoW to name a few provide a sense of MMO security of not becoming another MMO casualty like so many other MMO's in the past.

I know and many know that Swtor ("love it of hate it") is not going anywhere and I enjoy the sense of security that Swtor gives me as a player, I know that Bioware will keep the content & polish pumping out and for that I will support Bioware and only because they are giving many of us players that  MMO security.

goldiewilson

Originally posted by Rhianni32

Originally posted by expresso

I look forward to a kickstart project being started in 20 years times looking to remake a WoW clone =D

LOL!

I have to wonder when we have old timer MMO players saying "Back in my day we had to play MMOs like we did back in WoW and liked it that way!"

Sounds like the same group of old UO players who rave about the game but cant function in a 3d world to save their life. I think they still complain about wasd and mouse controls, and user interfaces.

sekira

Originally posted by Reklaw

Originally posted by sekira

Originally posted by Reklaw

Originally posted by sekira

It should be pretty apparent by now that SWTOR aka WOWTOR is not doing as well as Bioware or their fans had hoped. The game is already being discounted by $10 on origin, they are already offering multiple free weekends for the game, and one of the most replied to posts on the official forums is titled "Server population is dropping...". Yes it looks like it is the beginning of the end for this game.

 

When a company spends $200 million on a new game and instead of growth, the total population starts to decline (or stabilizies) as individual server populations drop noticeably, its an obvious sign that customers are not satisfied. The game also has a small number of subscribers relative to the total number of potential customers, compared to WoW 7 years ago which had an equal or possibly greater number of subscribers the same length of time after its' release, back when MMO's  were not as mainstream as today.

 Aug. 30th, 2005 Wow reaches 1 million players. Game released: November 23, 2004

So I geuss you made a simlilar topic about WoW's death back in 2004 3 months after it's release???

In fact SWToR surpasses World of Warcraft with subnumbers, so it's very hard to believe anything you said in your OP

 

This should speak volumes that gamers are not looking for games that are "similar to WoW" anymore and do not want games that fit the bill of a linear theme park. If WOWTOR monumentally collapses or does not experience great success (profit), I would expect more developers, if they haven't already, will begin to distance themselves from SWTOR/WOW as they realize now that advertising a game as a WoW clone should not be considered a selling point to get people interested in their MMO anymore.

 

I for one will not be playing another MMO until it is very innovative and different than a MMO I have played in the past, in particular, WoW. Developers should stop worrying about making a viable competitor in the MMO market that is nearly identical to WoW in order to appeal to that playerbase. Instead they really should be making it completely unlike WoW in order to compete with Titan, which I guarantee will probably be vastly different than WoW.

 

I suspect SWTOR will probably be the last wow clone we will see. Overall I think this is very good news for the genre, even at the expense of a game that had such a massive budge for a company eyeing major success.

 

 

RIP SWTOR "Tortanic"

 This is absolutely not in defence of SWToR cause I aint even playing or have played the game, but like to be informerd nevertheless but like to be informerd with actuall facts instead of wild geusses or make up stuff.

And if you have any sort of MMORPG experiance you already know that often certain servers do get lower populated. I feel it'sa  very hard thing to work with "do we need 20 servers up and running on release or do we need 5 servers on release and build upon that. Let's say they put up 5 servers up and running on release, imagine the queíng, which this day''s would put off people to rather not to play. Well with allot more server we see topics like this appear each and every time at almost every MMORPG that some person does not like.

/facepalm

Read through the thread next time to avoid making yourself look blatantly lost.

1 million players on Aug 30 2005 is factually wrong. Trying doing some research next time (or simply read through the thread) instead of spreading misinformation. Funny you try to discredit my post but in fact all you did was discredit your own, good job.

With that said, I'm not going to even bother reading through the rest  of your post when its beyond clear that this thread is far beyond your level of understanding if you got such basic factual information wrong.

 

 You're right,  I should have added 1 mil+ NA players at 30 or 29 aug. 2005. My bad

 

Good job.

Try 3.5 million players worldwide as of 7/25/05, only ~9 months after release. Next.

http://wowvault.ign.com/View.php?view=Columns.Detail&id=101

Moaky07

Sandboxes are going to be popular any minute now. <crickets chirping>

 

How many yrs have we listened to this now? PVE continues to be the number 1 MMO mechanic, with PVP a "closing the gap" second, and Uncle Owen barely a blip on the radar.

 

Should games give different ways to do PVE? Sure, variety is good. Is a MMO game lacking PVE going to be number 1? I highly doubt it. Especially if that game allows FFA.

 

Until such time sandboxes find a way to do PVE better than themeparks(or even close to being on same level), and limit the griefing, they will always play a very minor second fiddle role. I dont know how GW2 will do(which I believe still falls in the themepark camp), but at least that game is giving folks their PVE even though it is a PVP focused MMO. I should say PVP without the griefing.

 

A game like ArcheAge is going to allow the griefing. The GFX alone will pull box sales. The game looks great.  The griefing will limit its retention.

 

I am all for making themeparks a better place. When you start wanting to add Uncle Owen centric loot, FFA, and user created content, I am saying "F that". Themeparks arent going away, much to the dismay of the OP.

Mari2k

What are you talking abount ?

2 mil sells, 1.7 mil active account ... they rip a big hole in the chesst of wow, the biggest since the birth of it.

swtor has it problems, but they are evolving very fast. What I heard lately is that they finally fixed  the FPS problems in pvp, what meens that I will soon give this game a second try.

You want sandbox, pvp, free loot games ? Go look how successfull darkfail is...

Sandbox will never be successfull under normal gamers, and there are  to few mmo nerds around (even if they cry very loud)