Yes! This will be the death of the most successful and popular MMO genre! This will be the death of the only MMO genre that makes money! This will be the death of the only MMO genre that has had millions of constant players! No company will ever want to make an MMO again after Star Wars The Old Republics lame numbers!!!! Who wants 2+ million boxsets sold and 1.7 million players in the first three months when you can have SANDBOX!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WoW clone genre will die a quick DEATH! No wait, it won't. End of discussion, lets move on.
It didn't have 1.7m subscribers at 3 months, that was at 31st December when people were locked in the free month and was in the Q3 financial report, the statements after that referred to that figure and then made unsubstantiated generalised comments for which EA are not legally accountable. All anecdotal evidence strongly points to falling subscriber numbers, the only question is how many have left the ship.
You know if you keep on repeating something it doesn't eventually make it fact.
Star Wars: The Old Republic subscription numbers stabilize at 1.7 million
by Matt Daniel on Mar 9th 2012 2:00PM
It's shaping up to be one hell of a good month for BioWare. If you consider the amount of money made by the launch of MassEffect 3 and by the continuedsuccess of Star Wars: The Old Republic, the entire studio must be swimming in pools of gold coins a la Scrooge McDuck by now. At any rate, it would appear that Star Wars: The Old Republic's subscriber numbers have stabilized at about 1.7 million active subscribers.
It's also worth noting that, according to EA's John Riccitello, the "vast majority" of these active subscribers have already used their 30-day trials, which means most of those 1.7 million subscribers are shelling out $15 per month to play the game. It'll be interesting to see how these numbers change (or don't) in the coming months, but for the time being The Old Republic seems to be doing BioWare proud.
This is at the time of the article and hopefully they'll tells us again what the numbers are around the 2nd week of April and then we can see if there is a drop if they are silent about sub numbers then then we will certain know numbers are dropping. But we can also find out when EA release their quarterly financial report.
So the vast majority of the 1.7m there were at 31st Dec subbed, that's anything from 1.2m to 1.69m, no mention of how many of those unsubbed at the end of Jan or the End of Feb, as a statement of subs at the time it was made in march it is essentially meaningless.
this is especially so since the game required a game card (ending this week) or credit card details in order to register. Blind denial of the evidence will not change the facts.
The truth will out in the year end investor reports but ALL anecdotal evidence points to severe falls in numbers.
So the vast majority of the 1.7m there were at 31st Dec subbed, that's anything from 1.2m to 1.69m, no mention of how many of those unsubbed at the end of Jan or the End of Feb, as a statement of subs at the time it was made in march it is essentially meaningless. The truth will out in the year end investor reports but ALL anecdotal evidence points to severe falls in numbers.
Uhm, while i don't really like to take a side in that debate he actually posted links supporting his theories while you posted your own opinion.
So put up some proof (at least something as good as the link) or you are losing this discussion..
It should be pretty apparent by now that SWTOR aka WOWTOR is not doing as well as Bioware or their fans had hoped. The game is already being discounted by $10 on origin, they are already offering multiple free weekends for the game, and one of the most replied to posts on the official forums is titled "Server population is dropping...". Yes it looks like it is the beginning of the end for this game.
When a company spends $200 million on a new game and instead of growth, the total population starts to decline (or stabilizies) as individual server populations drop noticeably, its an obvious sign that customers are not satisfied. The game also has a small number of subscribers relative to the total number of potential customers, compared to WoW 7 years ago which had an equal or possibly greater number of subscribers the same length of time after its' release, back when MMO's were not as mainstream as today.
This should speak volumes that gamers are not looking for games that are "similar to WoW" anymore and do not want games that fit the bill of a linear theme park. If WOWTOR monumentally collapses or does not experience great success (profit), I would expect more developers, if they haven't already, will begin to distance themselves from SWTOR/WOW as they realize now that advertising a game as a WoW clone should not be considered a selling point to get people interested in their MMO anymore.
I for one will not be playing another MMO until it is very innovative and different than a MMO I have played in the past, in particular, WoW. Developers should stop worrying about making a viable competitor in the MMO market that is nearly identical to WoW in order to appeal to that playerbase. Instead they really should be making it completely unlike WoW in order to compete with Titan, which I guarantee will probably be vastly different than WoW.
I suspect SWTOR will probably be the last wow clone we will see. Overall I think this is very good news for the genre, even at the expense of a game that had such a massive budge for a company eyeing major success.
RIP SWTOR "Tortanic"
I think you're seeing it the wrong way. SWTOR had 2M sales+. That number represents them getting back about 60% of their design costs. I will be generous with maintenance and employee costs and forego saying two paid months pays it all off and say three paid months will pay it all off
Well that means SWTOR is profitable after only three months.
Yeah that's the kicker, an MMO doesn't even have to do that great of sales to be profitable.
Originally posted by RefMinor So the vast majority of the 1.7m there were at 31st Dec subbed, that's anything from 1.2m to 1.69m, no mention of how many of those unsubbed at the end of Jan or the End of Feb, as a statement of subs at the time it was made in march it is essentially meaningless. The truth will out in the year end investor reports but ALL anecdotal evidence points to severe falls in numbers.
Uhm, while i don't really like to take a side in that debate he actually posted links supporting his theories while you posted your own opinion.
So put up some proof (at least something as good as the link) or you are losing this discussion..
These are the only official figures quoted, this is a transcript of the EA Q3 financial year 2012 (period ending dec 31st) margin call with investors. They quote 2m sales with 1.7m active ( ie 300k not activated, or activated and credit card cancelled), all the quote above said was that of those 1.7m a vast majority went on to subscribe, that may be true so all we know 1.2m to 1.69m took at least a month after the initial free period.
So for some more actual figures rather than generalised non legally binding CEO spin we need to wait for the Year End financials sometime after 31st March, this is why they are cramming in free trials to try to pick up extra subs before those figures are announced, my opinion which is in line with all anecdotal evidence is they are falling hard. Eg
It should be pretty apparent by now that SWTOR aka WOWTOR is not doing as well as Bioware or their fans had hoped. The game is already being discounted by $10 on origin, they are already offering multiple free weekends for the game, and one of the most replied to posts on the official forums is titled "Server population is dropping...". Yes it looks like it is the beginning of the end for this game. When a company spends $200 million on a new game and instead of growth, the total population starts to decline (or stabilizies) as individual server populations drop noticeably, its an obvious sign that customers are not satisfied. The game also has a small number of subscribers relative to the total number of potential customers, compared to WoW 7 years ago which had an equal or possibly greater number of subscribers the same length of time after its' release, back when MMO's were not as mainstream as today. This should speak volumes that gamers are not looking for games that are "similar to WoW" anymore and do not want games that fit the bill of a linear theme park. If WOWTOR monumentally collapses or does not experience great success (profit), I would expect more developers, if they haven't already, will begin to distance themselves from SWTOR/WOW as they realize now that advertising a game as a WoW clone should not be considered a selling point to get people interested in their MMO anymore. I for one will not be playing another MMO until it is very innovative and different than a MMO I have played in the past, in particular, WoW. Developers should stop worrying about making a viable competitor in the MMO market that is nearly identical to WoW in order to appeal to that playerbase. Instead they really should be making it completely unlike WoW in order to compete with Titan, which I guarantee will probably be vastly different than WoW. I suspect SWTOR will probably be the last wow clone we will see. Overall I think this is very good news for the genre, even at the expense of a game that had such a massive budge for a company eyeing major success. RIP SWTOR "Tortanic"
I think you're seeing it the wrong way. SWTOR had 2M sales+. That number represents them getting back about 60% of their design costs. I will be generous with maintenance and employee costs and forego saying two paid months pays it all off and say three paid months will pay it all off
Well that means SWTOR is profitable after only three months.
Yeah that's the kicker, an MMO doesn't even have to do that great of sales to be profitable.
I smell a century of WoWclones.
They don't get the full $60, the wholesalers, distributes and retailers take a cut. So with maybe 40$ a piece is $80m or 40% of costs
So the vast majority of the 1.7m there were at 31st Dec subbed, that's anything from 1.2m to 1.69m, no mention of how many of those unsubbed at the end of Jan or the End of Feb, as a statement of subs at the time it was made in march it is essentially meaningless. The truth will out in the year end investor reports but ALL anecdotal evidence points to severe falls in numbers.
Uhm, while i don't really like to take a side in that debate he actually posted links supporting his theories while you posted your own opinion.
So put up some proof (at least something as good as the link) or you are losing this discussion..
These are the only official figures quoted, this is a transcript of the EA Q3 financial year 2012 (period ending dec 31st) margin call with investors. They quote 2m sales with 1.7m active ( ie 300k not activated, or activated and credit card cancelled), all the quote above said was that of those 1.7m a vast majority went on to subscribe, that may be true so all we know 1.2m to 1.69m took at least a month after the initial free period.
So for some more actual figures rather than generalised non legally binding CEO spin we need to wait for the Year End financials sometime after 31st March, this is why they are cramming in free trials to try to pick up extra subs before those figures are announced, my opinion which is in line with all anecdotal evidence is they are falling hard. Eg
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Originally posted by RefMinor So the vast majority of the 1.7m there were at 31st Dec subbed, that's anything from 1.2m to 1.69m, no mention of how many of those unsubbed at the end of Jan or the End of Feb, as a statement of subs at the time it was made in march it is essentially meaningless. The truth will out in the year end investor reports but ALL anecdotal evidence points to severe falls in numbers.
Uhm, while i don't really like to take a side in that debate he actually posted links supporting his theories while you posted your own opinion.
So put up some proof (at least something as good as the link) or you are losing this discussion..
These are the only official figures quoted, this is a transcript of the EA Q3 financial year 2012 (period ending dec 31st) margin call with investors. They quote 2m sales with 1.7m active ( ie 300k not activated, or activated and credit card cancelled), all the quote above said was that of those 1.7m a vast majority went on to subscribe, that may be true so all we know 1.2m to 1.69m took at least a month after the initial free period.
So for some more actual figures rather than generalised non legally binding CEO spin we need to wait for the Year End financials sometime after 31st March, this is why they are cramming in free trials to try to pick up extra subs before those figures are announced, my opinion which is in line with all anecdotal evidence is they are falling hard. Eg
I repeat all anecdotal evidence is that subs are falling fast from the Q3 figures and that we have to wait for the year End figures to see where it has gone. I repeat this because I have no idea what your statement means.
So the vast majority of the 1.7m there were at 31st Dec subbed, that's anything from 1.2m to 1.69m, no mention of how many of those unsubbed at the end of Jan or the End of Feb, as a statement of subs at the time it was made in march it is essentially meaningless. The truth will out in the year end investor reports but ALL anecdotal evidence points to severe falls in numbers.
Uhm, while i don't really like to take a side in that debate he actually posted links supporting his theories while you posted your own opinion.
So put up some proof (at least something as good as the link) or you are losing this discussion..
These are the only official figures quoted, this is a transcript of the EA Q3 financial year 2012 (period ending dec 31st) margin call with investors. They quote 2m sales with 1.7m active ( ie 300k not activated, or activated and credit card cancelled), all the quote above said was that of those 1.7m a vast majority went on to subscribe, that may be true so all we know 1.2m to 1.69m took at least a month after the initial free period.
So for some more actual figures rather than generalised non legally binding CEO spin we need to wait for the Year End financials sometime after 31st March, this is why they are cramming in free trials to try to pick up extra subs before those figures are announced, my opinion which is in line with all anecdotal evidence is they are falling hard. Eg
I repeat all anecdotal evidence is that subs are falling fast from the Q3 figures and that we have to wait for the year End figures to see where it has gone. I repeat this because I have no idea what your statement means.
It means that no matter how much ancedotal evidence you have, like having more than one piece (plural) it will never be hard cold data or...
Anecdotes like this do not prove anything. In any case where some factor affects the probability of an outcome, rather than uniquely determining it, selected individual cases prove nothing; e.g. "my grandfather smoked 40 a day until he died at 90" and "my sister never went near anyone who smoked but died of lung cancer". Anecdotes often refer to the exception, rather than the rule: "Anecdotes are useless precisely because they may point to idiosyncratic responses." Even when many anecdotes are collected to prove a point, "The plural of anecdote is not data." (Roger Brinner)
We can only take what the CEO of EA has said until we have other evidence that he is not telling the truth. Until that time all other theories are conjecture and assumptions. So the real truth will out with EA's quarterly finances and projections for the future.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Originally posted by RefMinor So the vast majority of the 1.7m there were at 31st Dec subbed, that's anything from 1.2m to 1.69m, no mention of how many of those unsubbed at the end of Jan or the End of Feb, as a statement of subs at the time it was made in march it is essentially meaningless. The truth will out in the year end investor reports but ALL anecdotal evidence points to severe falls in numbers.
Uhm, while i don't really like to take a side in that debate he actually posted links supporting his theories while you posted your own opinion.
So put up some proof (at least something as good as the link) or you are losing this discussion..
These are the only official figures quoted, this is a transcript of the EA Q3 financial year 2012 (period ending dec 31st) margin call with investors. They quote 2m sales with 1.7m active ( ie 300k not activated, or activated and credit card cancelled), all the quote above said was that of those 1.7m a vast majority went on to subscribe, that may be true so all we know 1.2m to 1.69m took at least a month after the initial free period.
So for some more actual figures rather than generalised non legally binding CEO spin we need to wait for the Year End financials sometime after 31st March, this is why they are cramming in free trials to try to pick up extra subs before those figures are announced, my opinion which is in line with all anecdotal evidence is they are falling hard. Eg
I repeat all anecdotal evidence is that subs are falling fast from the Q3 figures and that we have to wait for the year End figures to see where it has gone. I repeat this because I have no idea what your statement means.
It means that no matter how much ancedotal evidence you have, like having more than one piece (plural) it will never be hard cold data or...
Anecdotes like this do not prove anything. In any case where some factor affects the probability of an outcome, rather than uniquely determining it, selected individual cases prove nothing; e.g. "my grandfather smoked 40 a day until he died at 90" and "my sister never went near anyone who smoked but died of lung cancer". Anecdotes often refer to the exception, rather than the rule: "Anecdotes are useless precisely because they may point to idiosyncratic responses." Even when many anecdotes are collected to prove a point, "The plural of anecdote is not data." (Roger Brinner)
We can only take what the CEO of EA has said until we have other evidence that he is not telling the truth. Until that time all other theories are conjecture and assumptions. So the real truth will out with EA's quarterly finances and projections for the future.
So the vast majority of the 1.7m there were at 31st Dec subbed, that's anything from 1.2m to 1.69m, no mention of how many of those unsubbed at the end of Jan or the End of Feb, as a statement of subs at the time it was made in march it is essentially meaningless. The truth will out in the year end investor reports but ALL anecdotal evidence points to severe falls in numbers.
Uhm, while i don't really like to take a side in that debate he actually posted links supporting his theories while you posted your own opinion.
So put up some proof (at least something as good as the link) or you are losing this discussion..
http://www.morningstar.com/earnings/34910064-electronic-arts-inc-ea-q3-2012.aspxThese are the only official figures quoted, this is a transcript of the EA Q3 financial year 2012 (period ending dec 31st) margin call with investors. They quote 2m sales with 1.7m active ( ie 300k not activated, or activated and credit card cancelled), all the quote above said was that of those 1.7m a vast majority went on to subscribe, that may be true so all we know 1.2m to 1.69m took at least a month after the initial free period.
So for some more actual figures rather than generalised non legally binding CEO spin we need to wait for the Year End financials sometime after 31st March, this is why they are cramming in free trials to try to pick up extra subs before those figures are announced, my opinion which is in line with all anecdotal evidence is they are falling hard. Eghttp://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=350700http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/336517/page/46
So basically you have no clue and means ha have no clue either.
That is fine but say so instead of talk about falling numbers.
So the vast majority of the 1.7m there were at 31st Dec subbed, that's anything from 1.2m to 1.69m, no mention of how many of those unsubbed at the end of Jan or the End of Feb, as a statement of subs at the time it was made in march it is essentially meaningless. The truth will out in the year end investor reports but ALL anecdotal evidence points to severe falls in numbers.
Uhm, while i don't really like to take a side in that debate he actually posted links supporting his theories while you posted your own opinion.
So put up some proof (at least something as good as the link) or you are losing this discussion..
These are the only official figures quoted, this is a transcript of the EA Q3 financial year 2012 (period ending dec 31st) margin call with investors. They quote 2m sales with 1.7m active ( ie 300k not activated, or activated and credit card cancelled), all the quote above said was that of those 1.7m a vast majority went on to subscribe, that may be true so all we know 1.2m to 1.69m took at least a month after the initial free period.
So for some more actual figures rather than generalised non legally binding CEO spin we need to wait for the Year End financials sometime after 31st March, this is why they are cramming in free trials to try to pick up extra subs before those figures are announced, my opinion which is in line with all anecdotal evidence is they are falling hard. Eg
I repeat all anecdotal evidence is that subs are falling fast from the Q3 figures and that we have to wait for the year End figures to see where it has gone. I repeat this because I have no idea what your statement means.
It means that no matter how much ancedotal evidence you have, like having more than one piece (plural) it will never be hard cold data or...
Anecdotes like this do not prove anything. In any case where some factor affects the probability of an outcome, rather than uniquely determining it, selected individual cases prove nothing; e.g. "my grandfather smoked 40 a day until he died at 90" and "my sister never went near anyone who smoked but died of lung cancer". Anecdotes often refer to the exception, rather than the rule: "Anecdotes are useless precisely because they may point to idiosyncratic responses." Even when many anecdotes are collected to prove a point, "The plural of anecdote is not data." (Roger Brinner)
We can only take what the CEO of EA has said until we have other evidence that he is not telling the truth. Until that time all other theories are conjecture and assumptions. So the real truth will out with EA's quarterly finances and projections for the future.
Keep believing, make it happen.
Is that it? all you could come up with? I'm disappointed, shame really, maybe intellectual debate is not your thing.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
So the vast majority of the 1.7m there were at 31st Dec subbed, that's anything from 1.2m to 1.69m, no mention of how many of those unsubbed at the end of Jan or the End of Feb, as a statement of subs at the time it was made in march it is essentially meaningless. The truth will out in the year end investor reports but ALL anecdotal evidence points to severe falls in numbers.
Uhm, while i don't really like to take a side in that debate he actually posted links supporting his theories while you posted your own opinion.
So put up some proof (at least something as good as the link) or you are losing this discussion..
These are the only official figures quoted, this is a transcript of the EA Q3 financial year 2012 (period ending dec 31st) margin call with investors. They quote 2m sales with 1.7m active ( ie 300k not activated, or activated and credit card cancelled), all the quote above said was that of those 1.7m a vast majority went on to subscribe, that may be true so all we know 1.2m to 1.69m took at least a month after the initial free period.
So for some more actual figures rather than generalised non legally binding CEO spin we need to wait for the Year End financials sometime after 31st March, this is why they are cramming in free trials to try to pick up extra subs before those figures are announced, my opinion which is in line with all anecdotal evidence is they are falling hard. Eg
I repeat all anecdotal evidence is that subs are falling fast from the Q3 figures and that we have to wait for the year End figures to see where it has gone. I repeat this because I have no idea what your statement means.
It means that no matter how much ancedotal evidence you have, like having more than one piece (plural) it will never be hard cold data or...
Anecdotes like this do not prove anything. In any case where some factor affects the probability of an outcome, rather than uniquely determining it, selected individual cases prove nothing; e.g. "my grandfather smoked 40 a day until he died at 90" and "my sister never went near anyone who smoked but died of lung cancer". Anecdotes often refer to the exception, rather than the rule: "Anecdotes are useless precisely because they may point to idiosyncratic responses." Even when many anecdotes are collected to prove a point, "The plural of anecdote is not data." (Roger Brinner)
We can only take what the CEO of EA has said until we have other evidence that he is not telling the truth. Until that time all other theories are conjecture and assumptions. So the real truth will out with EA's quarterly finances and projections for the future.
Keep believing, make it happen.
Is that it? all you could come up with? I'm disappointed, shame really, maybe intellectual debate is not your thing.
We have history. Were EA's comments about Warhammer similar right after launch? If SWTOR subs were on the rise, EA's stock would be on fire because at this point if subs were rising, they wouldnt be stopping any time soon. Not with BF3 to draw players from among other mmos.
This is what their investors were waiting and hoping for. What are the investors doing atm? I havent been paying attention, but last I looked it seemed they couldnt interperet the situation either. I personally believe the investors would have rather seen a risk taken than to break even. But the economy sucks, and providing jobs is almost as important.
Don't get me wrong, i personally think they're rolling in cash as the suckers are busy arguing over stuff they read on the internet and EA has moved on to the next box sale scam. If they can make money, and suckers still fall for it, then everyone is happy except gamers and the long investor. But dont worry, the next title will save us lol.
Just my opinion. Is history on your side of the debate or theirs? have we heard this song and dance before?
People are sick in the heads, really tell me what MMO are you playing thats sooooo much better?
If not WoW, Rift, Swtor, EvE and the list goes on then what MMO is the ("AkA" cream of the crop) in your eyes because if it's not one of those pay to play MMO then it's most likly a failed game.
I'm give you two reasons why many play those games.
1. They are fun
2. They have backing to support future content or (MMO Security)
MMO's are like financial investments, any logical person is not going to invest money into a failed business many will invest into a business that will be around a long time and generate money (aka content in MMO terms), games like Swtor, WoW to name a few provide a sense of MMO security of not becoming another MMO casualty like so many other MMO's in the past.
I know and many know that Swtor ("love it of hate it") is not going anywhere and I enjoy the sense of security that Swtor gives me as a player, I know that Bioware will keep the content & polish pumping out and for that I will support Bioware and only because they are giving many of us players that MMO security.
Sorry, you've been suckered to believe that only eq/wow clones are viable because that is what MMOs turned into after 2000. Ultima Online/Asheron's Call style are much different.
For Asheron's Call, you had a world where you could run in any direction for hours and explore a MASSIVE world, free monthly CONTENT updates with an ongoing story, more skill based pvp where you could kill someone 10-20 levels above you if you knew what you were doing, the ability to travel around the world by linking to portals, an actual death penalty that was only brutal if you died repeatedly, a unique patronage guild system, the ability to distribute xp in any way you'd like, regardless of level, etc etc etc.
Just because you and others are ignorant of other options to MMO... all that means is that you've been duped into believing the current garbage is all that can be done.
So the vast majority of the 1.7m there were at 31st Dec subbed, that's anything from 1.2m to 1.69m, no mention of how many of those unsubbed at the end of Jan or the End of Feb, as a statement of subs at the time it was made in march it is essentially meaningless. The truth will out in the year end investor reports but ALL anecdotal evidence points to severe falls in numbers.
Uhm, while i don't really like to take a side in that debate he actually posted links supporting his theories while you posted your own opinion.
So put up some proof (at least something as good as the link) or you are losing this discussion..
These are the only official figures quoted, this is a transcript of the EA Q3 financial year 2012 (period ending dec 31st) margin call with investors. They quote 2m sales with 1.7m active ( ie 300k not activated, or activated and credit card cancelled), all the quote above said was that of those 1.7m a vast majority went on to subscribe, that may be true so all we know 1.2m to 1.69m took at least a month after the initial free period.
So for some more actual figures rather than generalised non legally binding CEO spin we need to wait for the Year End financials sometime after 31st March, this is why they are cramming in free trials to try to pick up extra subs before those figures are announced, my opinion which is in line with all anecdotal evidence is they are falling hard. Eg
I repeat all anecdotal evidence is that subs are falling fast from the Q3 figures and that we have to wait for the year End figures to see where it has gone. I repeat this because I have no idea what your statement means.
It means that no matter how much ancedotal evidence you have, like having more than one piece (plural) it will never be hard cold data or...
Anecdotes like this do not prove anything. In any case where some factor affects the probability of an outcome, rather than uniquely determining it, selected individual cases prove nothing; e.g. "my grandfather smoked 40 a day until he died at 90" and "my sister never went near anyone who smoked but died of lung cancer". Anecdotes often refer to the exception, rather than the rule: "Anecdotes are useless precisely because they may point to idiosyncratic responses." Even when many anecdotes are collected to prove a point, "The plural of anecdote is not data." (Roger Brinner)
We can only take what the CEO of EA has said until we have other evidence that he is not telling the truth. Until that time all other theories are conjecture and assumptions. So the real truth will out with EA's quarterly finances and projections for the future.
Keep believing, make it happen.
Is that it? all you could come up with? I'm disappointed, shame really, maybe intellectual debate is not your thing.
We have history. Were EA's comments about Warhammer similar right after launch? If SWTOR subs were on the rise, EA's stock would be on fire because at this point if subs were rising, they wouldnt be stopping any time soon. Not with BF3 to draw players from among other mmos.
This is what their investors were waiting and hoping for. What are the investors doing atm? I havent been paying attention, but last I looked it seemed they couldnt interperet the situation either. I personally believe the investors would have rather seen a risk taken than to break even. But the economy sucks, and providing jobs is almost as important.
Don't get me wrong, i personally think they're rolling in cash as the suckers are busy arguing over stuff they read on the internet and EA has moved on to the next box sale scam. If they can make money, and suckers still fall for it, then everyone is happy except gamers and the long investor. But dont worry, the next title will save us lol.
Just my opinion. Is history on your side of the debate or theirs? have we heard this song and dance before?
and warhammer was (before bioware got their hands on it) a better game. EA have a really shit track record at supporting ALL their MMOs
So the vast majority of the 1.7m there were at 31st Dec subbed, that's anything from 1.2m to 1.69m, no mention of how many of those unsubbed at the end of Jan or the End of Feb, as a statement of subs at the time it was made in march it is essentially meaningless. The truth will out in the year end investor reports but ALL anecdotal evidence points to severe falls in numbers.
Uhm, while i don't really like to take a side in that debate he actually posted links supporting his theories while you posted your own opinion.
So put up some proof (at least something as good as the link) or you are losing this discussion..
These are the only official figures quoted, this is a transcript of the EA Q3 financial year 2012 (period ending dec 31st) margin call with investors. They quote 2m sales with 1.7m active ( ie 300k not activated, or activated and credit card cancelled), all the quote above said was that of those 1.7m a vast majority went on to subscribe, that may be true so all we know 1.2m to 1.69m took at least a month after the initial free period.
So for some more actual figures rather than generalised non legally binding CEO spin we need to wait for the Year End financials sometime after 31st March, this is why they are cramming in free trials to try to pick up extra subs before those figures are announced, my opinion which is in line with all anecdotal evidence is they are falling hard. Eg
I repeat all anecdotal evidence is that subs are falling fast from the Q3 figures and that we have to wait for the year End figures to see where it has gone. I repeat this because I have no idea what your statement means.
It means that no matter how much ancedotal evidence you have, like having more than one piece (plural) it will never be hard cold data or...
Anecdotes like this do not prove anything. In any case where some factor affects the probability of an outcome, rather than uniquely determining it, selected individual cases prove nothing; e.g. "my grandfather smoked 40 a day until he died at 90" and "my sister never went near anyone who smoked but died of lung cancer". Anecdotes often refer to the exception, rather than the rule: "Anecdotes are useless precisely because they may point to idiosyncratic responses." Even when many anecdotes are collected to prove a point, "The plural of anecdote is not data." (Roger Brinner)
We can only take what the CEO of EA has said until we have other evidence that he is not telling the truth. Until that time all other theories are conjecture and assumptions. So the real truth will out with EA's quarterly finances and projections for the future.
Keep believing, make it happen.
Is that it? all you could come up with? I'm disappointed, shame really, maybe intellectual debate is not your thing.
We have history. Were EA's comments about Warhammer similar right after launch? If SWTOR subs were on the rise, EA's stock would be on fire because at this point if subs were rising, they wouldnt be stopping any time soon. Not with BF3 to draw players from among other mmos.
This is what their investors were waiting and hoping for. What are the investors doing atm? I havent been paying attention, but last I looked it seemed they couldnt interperet the situation either. I personally believe the investors would have rather seen a risk taken than to break even. But the economy sucks, and providing jobs is almost as important.
Don't get me wrong, i personally think they're rolling in cash as the suckers are busy arguing over stuff they read on the internet and EA has moved on to the next box sale scam. If they can make money, and suckers still fall for it, then everyone is happy except gamers and the long investor. But dont worry, the next title will save us lol.
Just my opinion. Is history on your side of the debate or theirs? have we heard this song and dance before?
and warhammer was (before bioware got their hands on it) a better game. EA have a really shit track record at supporting ALL their MMOs
But we're talking about comments from ceo's after a launch of an MMO and if those comments should be given the benefit of the doubt.
Im aware of EA track record. I was wondering if their track record and comments from history should be included in the debate?
So the vast majority of the 1.7m there were at 31st Dec subbed, that's anything from 1.2m to 1.69m, no mention of how many of those unsubbed at the end of Jan or the End of Feb, as a statement of subs at the time it was made in march it is essentially meaningless. The truth will out in the year end investor reports but ALL anecdotal evidence points to severe falls in numbers.
Uhm, while i don't really like to take a side in that debate he actually posted links supporting his theories while you posted your own opinion.
So put up some proof (at least something as good as the link) or you are losing this discussion..
These are the only official figures quoted, this is a transcript of the EA Q3 financial year 2012 (period ending dec 31st) margin call with investors. They quote 2m sales with 1.7m active ( ie 300k not activated, or activated and credit card cancelled), all the quote above said was that of those 1.7m a vast majority went on to subscribe, that may be true so all we know 1.2m to 1.69m took at least a month after the initial free period.
So for some more actual figures rather than generalised non legally binding CEO spin we need to wait for the Year End financials sometime after 31st March, this is why they are cramming in free trials to try to pick up extra subs before those figures are announced, my opinion which is in line with all anecdotal evidence is they are falling hard. Eg
Comments
It didn't have 1.7m subscribers at 3 months, that was at 31st December when people were locked in the free month and was in the Q3 financial report, the statements after that referred to that figure and then made unsubstantiated generalised comments for which EA are not legally accountable. All anecdotal evidence strongly points to falling subscriber numbers, the only question is how many have left the ship.You know if you keep on repeating something it doesn't eventually make it fact.
From Massively..
http://massively.joystiq.com/2012/03/09/star-wars-the-old-republic-subscription-numbers-stabilize-at-1/
Star Wars: The Old Republic subscription numbers stabilize at 1.7 million
by Matt Daniel on Mar 9th 2012 2:00PM
It's shaping up to be one hell of a good month for BioWare. If you consider the amount of money made by the launch of Mass Effect 3 and by the continued success of Star Wars: The Old Republic, the entire studio must be swimming in pools of gold coins a la Scrooge McDuck by now. At any rate, it would appear that Star Wars: The Old Republic's subscriber numbers have stabilized at about 1.7 million active subscribers.
It's also worth noting that, according to EA's John Riccitello, the "vast majority" of these active subscribers have already used their 30-day trials, which means most of those 1.7 million subscribers are shelling out $15 per month to play the game. It'll be interesting to see how these numbers change (or don't) in the coming months, but for the time being The Old Republic seems to be doing BioWare proud.
This is at the time of the article and hopefully they'll tells us again what the numbers are around the 2nd week of April and then we can see if there is a drop if they are silent about sub numbers then then we will certain know numbers are dropping. But we can also find out when EA release their quarterly financial report.
So the vast majority of the 1.7m there were at 31st Dec subbed, that's anything from 1.2m to 1.69m, no mention of how many of those unsubbed at the end of Jan or the End of Feb, as a statement of subs at the time it was made in march it is essentially meaningless.
this is especially so since the game required a game card (ending this week) or credit card details in order to register. Blind denial of the evidence will not change the facts.
The truth will out in the year end investor reports but ALL anecdotal evidence points to severe falls in numbers.Uhm, while i don't really like to take a side in that debate he actually posted links supporting his theories while you posted your own opinion.
So put up some proof (at least something as good as the link) or you are losing this discussion..
I think you're seeing it the wrong way. SWTOR had 2M sales+. That number represents them getting back about 60% of their design costs. I will be generous with maintenance and employee costs and forego saying two paid months pays it all off and say three paid months will pay it all off
Well that means SWTOR is profitable after only three months.
Yeah that's the kicker, an MMO doesn't even have to do that great of sales to be profitable.
I smell a century of WoWclones.
Website: http://www.thegameguru.me / YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/users/thetroublmaker
Uhm, while i don't really like to take a side in that debate he actually posted links supporting his theories while you posted your own opinion.
So put up some proof (at least something as good as the link) or you are losing this discussion..
http://www.morningstar.com/earnings/34910064-electronic-arts-inc-ea-q3-2012.aspx
These are the only official figures quoted, this is a transcript of the EA Q3 financial year 2012 (period ending dec 31st) margin call with investors. They quote 2m sales with 1.7m active ( ie 300k not activated, or activated and credit card cancelled), all the quote above said was that of those 1.7m a vast majority went on to subscribe, that may be true so all we know 1.2m to 1.69m took at least a month after the initial free period.
So for some more actual figures rather than generalised non legally binding CEO spin we need to wait for the Year End financials sometime after 31st March, this is why they are cramming in free trials to try to pick up extra subs before those figures are announced, my opinion which is in line with all anecdotal evidence is they are falling hard.Eg
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=350700
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/336517/page/46I think you're seeing it the wrong way. SWTOR had 2M sales+. That number represents them getting back about 60% of their design costs. I will be generous with maintenance and employee costs and forego saying two paid months pays it all off and say three paid months will pay it all off
Well that means SWTOR is profitable after only three months.
Yeah that's the kicker, an MMO doesn't even have to do that great of sales to be profitable.
I smell a century of WoWclones.
They don't get the full $60, the wholesalers, distributes and retailers take a cut. So with maybe 40$ a piece is $80m or 40% of costsThe plural of anecdote is not data
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Uhm, while i don't really like to take a side in that debate he actually posted links supporting his theories while you posted your own opinion.
So put up some proof (at least something as good as the link) or you are losing this discussion..
http://www.morningstar.com/earnings/34910064-electronic-arts-inc-ea-q3-2012.aspx
These are the only official figures quoted, this is a transcript of the EA Q3 financial year 2012 (period ending dec 31st) margin call with investors. They quote 2m sales with 1.7m active ( ie 300k not activated, or activated and credit card cancelled), all the quote above said was that of those 1.7m a vast majority went on to subscribe, that may be true so all we know 1.2m to 1.69m took at least a month after the initial free period.
So for some more actual figures rather than generalised non legally binding CEO spin we need to wait for the Year End financials sometime after 31st March, this is why they are cramming in free trials to try to pick up extra subs before those figures are announced, my opinion which is in line with all anecdotal evidence is they are falling hard. Eg
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=350700
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/336517/page/46The plural of anecdote is not data
I repeat all anecdotal evidence is that subs are falling fast from the Q3 figures and that we have to wait for the year End figures to see where it has gone. I repeat this because I have no idea what your statement means.It means that no matter how much ancedotal evidence you have, like having more than one piece (plural) it will never be hard cold data or...
Anecdotes like this do not prove anything. In any case where some factor affects the probability of an outcome, rather than uniquely determining it, selected individual cases prove nothing; e.g. "my grandfather smoked 40 a day until he died at 90" and "my sister never went near anyone who smoked but died of lung cancer". Anecdotes often refer to the exception, rather than the rule: "Anecdotes are useless precisely because they may point to idiosyncratic responses." Even when many anecdotes are collected to prove a point, "The plural of anecdote is not data." (Roger Brinner)
We can only take what the CEO of EA has said until we have other evidence that he is not telling the truth. Until that time all other theories are conjecture and assumptions. So the real truth will out with EA's quarterly finances and projections for the future.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
Uhm, while i don't really like to take a side in that debate he actually posted links supporting his theories while you posted your own opinion.
So put up some proof (at least something as good as the link) or you are losing this discussion..
http://www.morningstar.com/earnings/34910064-electronic-arts-inc-ea-q3-2012.aspx
These are the only official figures quoted, this is a transcript of the EA Q3 financial year 2012 (period ending dec 31st) margin call with investors. They quote 2m sales with 1.7m active ( ie 300k not activated, or activated and credit card cancelled), all the quote above said was that of those 1.7m a vast majority went on to subscribe, that may be true so all we know 1.2m to 1.69m took at least a month after the initial free period.
So for some more actual figures rather than generalised non legally binding CEO spin we need to wait for the Year End financials sometime after 31st March, this is why they are cramming in free trials to try to pick up extra subs before those figures are announced, my opinion which is in line with all anecdotal evidence is they are falling hard. Eg
http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=350700
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/336517/page/46The plural of anecdote is not data
I repeat all anecdotal evidence is that subs are falling fast from the Q3 figures and that we have to wait for the year End figures to see where it has gone. I repeat this because I have no idea what your statement means.It means that no matter how much ancedotal evidence you have, like having more than one piece (plural) it will never be hard cold data or...
Anecdotes like this do not prove anything. In any case where some factor affects the probability of an outcome, rather than uniquely determining it, selected individual cases prove nothing; e.g. "my grandfather smoked 40 a day until he died at 90" and "my sister never went near anyone who smoked but died of lung cancer". Anecdotes often refer to the exception, rather than the rule: "Anecdotes are useless precisely because they may point to idiosyncratic responses." Even when many anecdotes are collected to prove a point, "The plural of anecdote is not data." (Roger Brinner)
We can only take what the CEO of EA has said until we have other evidence that he is not telling the truth. Until that time all other theories are conjecture and assumptions. So the real truth will out with EA's quarterly finances and projections for the future.
Keep believing, make it happen.So basically you have no clue and means ha have no clue either.
That is fine but say so instead of talk about falling numbers.
Is that it? all you could come up with? I'm disappointed, shame really, maybe intellectual debate is not your thing.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
We have history. Were EA's comments about Warhammer similar right after launch? If SWTOR subs were on the rise, EA's stock would be on fire because at this point if subs were rising, they wouldnt be stopping any time soon. Not with BF3 to draw players from among other mmos.
This is what their investors were waiting and hoping for. What are the investors doing atm? I havent been paying attention, but last I looked it seemed they couldnt interperet the situation either. I personally believe the investors would have rather seen a risk taken than to break even. But the economy sucks, and providing jobs is almost as important.
Don't get me wrong, i personally think they're rolling in cash as the suckers are busy arguing over stuff they read on the internet and EA has moved on to the next box sale scam. If they can make money, and suckers still fall for it, then everyone is happy except gamers and the long investor. But dont worry, the next title will save us lol.
Just my opinion. Is history on your side of the debate or theirs? have we heard this song and dance before?
Sorry, you've been suckered to believe that only eq/wow clones are viable because that is what MMOs turned into after 2000. Ultima Online/Asheron's Call style are much different.
For Asheron's Call, you had a world where you could run in any direction for hours and explore a MASSIVE world, free monthly CONTENT updates with an ongoing story, more skill based pvp where you could kill someone 10-20 levels above you if you knew what you were doing, the ability to travel around the world by linking to portals, an actual death penalty that was only brutal if you died repeatedly, a unique patronage guild system, the ability to distribute xp in any way you'd like, regardless of level, etc etc etc.
Just because you and others are ignorant of other options to MMO... all that means is that you've been duped into believing the current garbage is all that can be done.
and warhammer was (before bioware got their hands on it) a better game. EA have a really shit track record at supporting ALL their MMOs
But we're talking about comments from ceo's after a launch of an MMO and if those comments should be given the benefit of the doubt.
Im aware of EA track record. I was wondering if their track record and comments from history should be included in the debate?