"I think, therefore I am." Fanboys and alike cannot think for themselves and can only follow others so this "negativism" you are talking about is simply free thinking individuals who are not afraid to speak up.
Sorry you are dumb. It is negativism if the person wastes his energy on something he dislikes. It is not the same as criticism. Free thinking individuals? What the hell?
Well put.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Its fun how a certain group of people allways visits the forums of the next big AAA MMO to be released, and spreads their negativism. Mostly not based on game facts but on emotions. Good to know that any really good game will actually do good despte their attempts to chase away potential customers. Its obvious that the Negativism has landed on the GW2 boards after SWTOR has been released. To the neutral visitors, please base your opinion on the facts we know about GW2 combined with your own gaming needs
What about those who are just disappointed, long time GW players and supporters who are plain and simple disappointed with present game direction, are they automatically on heaters group list, do they need to be silent?
Its fun how a certain group of people allways visits the forums of the next big AAA MMO to be released, and spreads their negativism. Mostly not based on game facts but on emotions. Good to know that any really good game will actually do good despte their attempts to chase away potential customers. Its obvious that the Negativism has landed on the GW2 boards after SWTOR has been released. To the neutral visitors, please base your opinion on the facts we know about GW2 combined with your own gaming needs
What about those who are just disappointed, long time GW players and supporters who are plain and simple disappointed with present game direction, are they automatically on heaters group list, do they need to be silent?
it depends on the circumstances. I know some gw1 fans that hate gw2 because it's different from gw1. And any discussion with those people to me is pointless, because they hate the game for being different. Real criticism should be about the game itself not be compared to another game. It should be the about the mechanics and how they relate to that specific game and the spirit of the game. If those are met then the criticism should be heard, but unfortunately the scenario you describe doesn't fit.
So many AAA MMOs havent lived up to the hype as of late that people are starting to assume the trend is going to continue, so they continue voicing their continued dissatisfaction.
You know, I used to think that's what it was, but the facts just don't seem to support that. Games that are literally the same exact crap get praised, while the ones actually bringing something new (and meaningful) tend to get either swept under the rug or flamed.
FFXIV (while it had a lot of negative feedback) got outshouted by fans to the point of absurdity. (many are still defending the game)
Same with SWTOR
Tera offers a new type of combat, but nothing else is really different. It's very much the same old MMO, with combat taken from some of the more action-oriented MMOs out there (most of which are F2P). And yet, noone gives a crap about that. It's all 'look! you can dodge and block and combo attacks! this is the best thing since sliced bread!'
SW remains to be seen, but this is a game made by one of the most notorious MMO developers (who have a reputation to back it up), and yet... this again is seen as 'going to be an awesome MMO'.
There's a trend here, and it makes no sense at all. Games that have legitimate reasons to be concerned about are being praised as 'great games', where others are basically getting ignored or flamed for idiotic reasons. If people were more interested in another game than GW2, we wouldn't be seeing a 10th of the negativity as we've been seeing for the passed 6 months or so. However, people are excited about this game, and so it's now magically okay to spread the word that this is somehow the worste game ever created, with no real info / proof to back it up.
Hell, the first game didn't get much flaming until AFTER it become really popular.
Notice we don't hear much about Planetside 2, we don't even hear much about Archage.
I have to admit I have seen a lot of posts saying either the game offers nothing new or that the game can't work because it doesn't follow "the Rules".
Its fun how a certain group of people allways visits the forums of the next big AAA MMO to be released, and spreads their negativism. Mostly not based on game facts but on emotions. Good to know that any really good game will actually do good despte their attempts to chase away potential customers. Its obvious that the Negativism has landed on the GW2 boards after SWTOR has been released. To the neutral visitors, please base your opinion on the facts we know about GW2 combined with your own gaming needs
What about those who are just disappointed, long time GW players and supporters who are plain and simple disappointed with present game direction, are they automatically on heaters group list, do they need to be silent?
it depends on the circumstances. I know some gw1 fans that hate gw2 because it's different from gw1. And any discussion with those people to me is pointless, because they hate the game for being different. Real criticism should be about the game itself not be compared to another game. It should be the about the mechanics and how they relate to that specific game and the spirit of the game. If those are met then the criticism should be heard, but unfortunately the scenario you describe doesn't fit.
I actually know someone who is a GW1 fan and will not play GW2 because of the fact that time and events have moved on in the game world and new threats have emerged. His opinion is that once a threat to the world has been dealt with, that's that and no further stories should be told in that world.
Its fun how a certain group of people allways visits the forums of the next big AAA MMO to be released, and spreads their negativism. Mostly not based on game facts but on emotions. Good to know that any really good game will actually do good despte their attempts to chase away potential customers. Its obvious that the Negativism has landed on the GW2 boards after SWTOR has been released. To the neutral visitors, please base your opinion on the facts we know about GW2 combined with your own gaming needs
What about those who are just disappointed, long time GW players and supporters who are plain and simple disappointed with present game direction, are they automatically on heaters group list, do they need to be silent?
I dont see why long time GW players would be any different from other potential customers in the first place, i have posted many critiical posts about the game myself, yet being critical is something different then being negative. Crtisisme when backed up by facts and reasoning is a good thing. And everyone should understand that any game including Gw2 wil be far from perfect to suit everyone. But this post is aimed at a certain group of people that jumps from game to game with only one reason, and thats to make those games look back with their negative attitude. Not based on actuall facts, but with the sole reason that they get a kick from trolling on these boards.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
I dont see why long time GW players would be any different from other potential customers in the first place, i have posted many critiical posts about the game myself, yet being critical is something different then being negative. Crtisisme when backed up by facts and reasoning is a good thing. And everyone should understand that any game including Gw2 wil be far from perfect to suit everyone. But this post is aimed at a certain group of people that jumps from game to game with only one reason, and thats to make those games look back with their negative attitude. Not based on actuall facts, but with the sole reason that they get a kick from trolling on these boards.
Sometimes I don't understand you. With this post I do and whole heartedly agree with you. Being a GW1 player I'm not going to go into the list of things I am disappointed by in GW2. It's possible the changes will make it a great game and I hope that's the case. It will certainly be different and time will tell if those differences create a game that has any longevity. Some of us are just not into game hopping. I for one am not. I don't try every MMO that comes down the track, I probably try 15% or less now adays. I used to try a bit more then that but never every one which might explain why I've never jumped on the f2p bandwagon. There's nothing wrong with being objective and shopping around before dipping your toes into a game.
Its fun how a certain group of people allways visits the forums of the next big AAA MMO to be released, and spreads their negativism. Mostly not based on game facts but on emotions. Good to know that any really good game will actually do good despte their attempts to chase away potential customers. Its obvious that the Negativism has landed on the GW2 boards after SWTOR has been released. To the neutral visitors, please base your opinion on the facts we know about GW2 combined with your own gaming needs
I wanna know where the hell these guys were when DCOU was coming out? ...coulda saved THOSE subscribers a ton of money b/c Sony really was up to no good there.
TOR has also apparently "Flopped" here according to the ratins which honestly surprised me, but I didn't watch those forums so I don't know if they were there trying to stop that hype train... Obviously it wouldn't have taken any effort on their part to say "It's WoW in space". ...maybe that's why they're failing here though. Anet has plenty of flaws but those flaws are too complex for the normal Troll to comprehend?
I wanna know where the hell these guys were when DCOU was coming out? ...coulda saved THOSE subscribers a ton of money b/c Sony really was up to no good there.
TOR has also apparently "Flopped" here according to the ratins which honestly surprised me, but I didn't watch those forums so I don't know if they were there trying to stop that hype train... Obviously it wouldn't have taken any effort on their part to say "It's WoW in space". ...maybe that's why they're failing here though. Anet has plenty of flaws but those flaws are too complex for the normal Troll to comprehend?
Lol, good question.
I know there were people saying 'TOR is basically WoW in space', but the amount of fanboys for that game burried any of those threads in seconds. There were even a few well thought out ones that explained the issues with TOR, and it just got flamed to hell.
As for Anet's flaws... they really aren't that complicated. I think the main reason the trolls aren't bringing them up, is because the flaws (that I've seen) aren't game breakers for most people. Many of them come down to personal taste, or are things like 'lag' which no one really has a doubt will get fixed.
I wouldn't call this viral marketting, but more of a smear campaign tbh. Viral marketting is a method of creating buzz. What we have here is a board full of (mostly newer) posters who do nothing but bash the game all day.
And, for the hundredth time, saying something bad against a game is one thing (if it's valid). Broadly spreading false claims & information is something else entirely. A lot of what's being passed off on these boards as 'criticism' is missinformed flaming of this game.
For those that are legitimately interesting in this game, and are still caught up in all the flames, open your eyes a bit & do some research (it's really not that hard to find).
There's pleanty of posts that will point you to places like:
Accurate info on this game really isn't that tough to find. This is one of the reasons why it's all the more frustrating that people continue to make false claims against this game. And for what? Can you really think of another MMO that had this degree of attacks on it prior to launch? This game has repeatedly been attacked (primarily with false info) for almost 6 months straight now. Most of the threads have been locked, but it just doesn't seem to stop the tidal wave of negative thread posts.
It would be one thing if they were based off of accurate info we've seen on the game (like the comment of the world bosses not moving much), but instead we have thread after thread of 'gw2 is the worst game ever and here's why! No, I've never played it, but here are the facts!'
I can't think of any other game where that would be 'okay', but for some reasons GW2 is the favorite demon of the average forum poster on these boards. What's more is it's seaping into other games. Games that really shouldn't be giving a crap about this game to begin with. It's the type of reaction you'd expect from someone who's been personally wronged in a horrible way, and yet none of these people have actually played the game!
- What I want to know is, why are these threads (many of which contain obvious trolling, flaming) being allowed to go on for so long. The longer this goes on the more it seems like the rules of these forums are tipping in favor of the trolls. We (again for the 100th time) have valid threads discussing complaints, concerns, or wanted features for this game. And yet none of those are blowing up the forums. It's always the 'gw2 is the worste MMO ever made' threads that get perpetuated. I really don't see how this is magically 'okay' for this game, but not for any other.
I personally think it's just karma. GW2 fans were crucifying SWTOR before and after it released for months. GW2 fans were told to go back to their forums, but they didn't listen. So now GW2 is getting the same flack, and the GW2 fans can't take it.
I know there were people saying 'TOR is basically WoW in space', but the amount of fanboys for that game burried any of those threads in seconds. There were even a few well thought out ones that explained the issues with TOR, and it just got flamed to hell.
I don't mean to imply that TOR's problems were simple either. When someone who played it after release explained it to me, it was actually a lot more complex than I ever expected b/c it took the game's strongest Arguement (It's Storyline) and used it against it... literally having Bioware "Swiftboating" themselves as they've also just done with ME3 here.... needless to say it's been an interesting year for EA
As for Anet's flaws... they really aren't that complicated. I think the main reason the trolls aren't bringing them up, is because the flaws (that I've seen) aren't game breakers for most people. Many of them come down to personal taste, or are things like 'lag' which no one really has a doubt will get fixed.
I think there's plenty of gamebreakers to be had... It's just that none of them are in the News. The Cashshop is literally incapable of breaking the game for instance, so copy-pasting Doom-Theorems from other MMO's won't work there. Complaining about Levels & Gear won't work either. GW2 would have to be completely rebuilt for Levels and Gear to be huge gamebreakers and there's just no time for that to happen now. Lag used to be a huge deal but that was before Body-Blocking was removed.
....but there ya go, there's a big game breaker right there when talking about combat that's supposed to revolve around "Positioning". GW1 positioning really only mattered BECAUSE of body-blocking. A good team could hold chokepoints that way or block other melees off their monks, lag be damned. And since the combat in any Action game can still be "Hacked" with aimbots when you leave the skill-index up to Mouse-Aiming, that only leaves stuf like Skll-combo'ing (or facerolling), and positioning of yourself and your spells with quick Ground-Targeting. ...I mean they COULD add aim disruption factors like Recoil but that's really no different from skill cooldowns & stuns. But really there's just no new areas to go into in game combat anymore that WON'T just pander to Basement Dwellers or ScriptKiddies.
Oh there's also the Economy. Definitely going to be a ton of mis-steps there going forward and very little if any of it will be from "Gems". Most of it will be from the fact that Anet never learned their lesson from the Supply & Demand -vs- Risk/Reward from Gw1. Instead of making Ectos a dynamic resource, they just put a bunch of bandaids on the Underworld farming that hurt casual players more than it ever hurt the Farmers and now they're just ignoring the supply problems with Diamonds too which really has been game-breaking for tons of people who wanted to HOM for Gw2.
I could go on, but I think most ppl get the point.
Its fun how a certain group of people allways visits the forums of the next big AAA MMO to be released, and spreads their negativism. Mostly not based on game facts but on emotions. Good to know that any really good game will actually do good despte their attempts to chase away potential customers. Its obvious that the Negativism has landed on the GW2 boards after SWTOR has been released. To the neutral visitors, please base your opinion on the facts we know about GW2 combined with your own gaming needs
Its always the same crap, the same OWS mentality that hates big business or giant corporations. People, especially the under achieving and the lazy love to hate anything popular. It starts out in school when they hate on Jocks or Hot girls and carries over to the real world where they hate on things such as Wal-Mart or Big name Bands like Nickelback. There is an inferiority complex that is prevalant amonst a subset of the population and it just naturally carries over into video games.
SO when their is so much hate being shown toward GW2 then it means it is awesome and I will wear my fanboy patch as a badge of honor.
Playing: GW2 Waiting on: TESO Next Flop: Planetside 2 Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
Its fun how a certain group of people allways visits the forums of the next big AAA MMO to be released, and spreads their negativism. Mostly not based on game facts but on emotions. Good to know that any really good game will actually do good despte their attempts to chase away potential customers. Its obvious that the Negativism has landed on the GW2 boards after SWTOR has been released. To the neutral visitors, please base your opinion on the facts we know about GW2 combined with your own gaming needs
Its always the same crap, the same OWS mentality that hates big business or giant corporations. People, especially the under achieving and the lazy love to hate anything popular. It starts out in school when they hate on Jocks or Hot girls and carries over to the real world where they hate on things such as Wal-Mart or Big name Bands like Nickelback. There is an inferiority complex that is prevalant amonst a subset of the population and it just naturally carries over into video games.
SO when their is so much hate being shown toward GW2 then it means it is awesome and I will wear my fanboy patch as a badge of honor.
To be fair, Nickelback does suck pretty hard in that generic college rock kind of way.
I think there's plenty of gamebreakers to be had... It's just that none of them are in the News. The Cashshop is literally incapable of breaking the game for instance, so copy-pasting Doom-Theorems from other MMO's won't work there. Complaining about Levels & Gear won't work either. GW2 would have to be completely rebuilt for Levels and Gear to be huge gamebreakers and there's just no time for that to happen now. Lag used to be a huge deal but that was before Body-Blocking was removed.
[...]
Thanks for this. It's nice to see people grounded in realism.
Too many threads going around talking about how GW2 is flawless countered by people claiming GW has cash shops and won't be fair and therefore destroy gaming and the world.
Game will be great, but will have flaws that will need to be ironed out.
I'm just curious to see if the DE's will end up being just another novelty that becomes old, our whether they are strong enough to base an entire game around. Can't wait to play and find out!
Its fun how a certain group of people allways visits the forums of the next big AAA MMO to be released, and spreads their negativism. Mostly not based on game facts but on emotions. Good to know that any really good game will actually do good despte their attempts to chase away potential customers. Its obvious that the Negativism has landed on the GW2 boards after SWTOR has been released. To the neutral visitors, please base your opinion on the facts we know about GW2 combined with your own gaming needs
Its always the same crap, the same OWS mentality that hates big business or giant corporations. People, especially the under achieving and the lazy love to hate anything popular. It starts out in school when they hate on Jocks or Hot girls and carries over to the real world where they hate on things such as Wal-Mart or Big name Bands like Nickelback. There is an inferiority complex that is prevalant amonst a subset of the population and it just naturally carries over into video games.
SO when their is so much hate being shown toward GW2 then it means it is awesome and I will wear my fanboy patch as a badge of honor.
Then there's the type that post fallacys of composition... and Nickelback is not a "big name" group lol unless you consider how subjective the original statment is. Oh yeah and if you care to read up there is plenty of reason to hate on Walmart.
I personally think it's just karma. GW2 fans were crucifying SWTOR before and after it released for months. GW2 fans were told to go back to their forums, but they didn't listen. So now GW2 is getting the same flack, and the GW2 fans can't take it.
I guess..
It's not like GW2 fans had a vendetta against TOR or anything. A lot of the complaints towards that game were coming from people who aren't even here talking about GW2. Many are now playing TERA, waiting for TSW, Archeage, or have (apparently) quit MMOs altogether.
The game had legitimate complaints, that to this day are still holding true.If it's karma, then it chose to ignore a lot of other fanbases that also took part in that criticism. But then again, I guess GW2 is percieved as 'the biggest threat'.
Lag used to be a huge deal but that was before Body-Blocking was removed.
....but there ya go, there's a big game breaker right there when talking about combat that's supposed to revolve around "Positioning". GW1 positioning really only mattered BECAUSE of body-blocking.
Oh there's also the Economy. Definitely going to be a ton of mis-steps there going forward and very little if any of it will be from "Gems". Most of it will be from the fact that Anet never learned their lesson from the Supply & Demand -vs- Risk/Reward from Gw1. Instead of making Ectos a dynamic resource, they just put a bunch of bandaids on the Underworld farming that hurt casual players more than it ever hurt the Farmers and now they're just ignoring the supply problems with Diamonds too which really has been game-breaking for tons of people who wanted to HOM for Gw2.
I could go on, but I think most ppl get the point.
Very good points.
Out of curiosity, where did you hear about Body-Blocking being removed? Definitely not happy to hear that. At the very least, it would be good for them to turn it off for friendlies, but on for hostiles (similar to WAR).
As for the economy, you're definitely right about that one. However, for me that wasn't ever really a gamebreaker. It was really easy to get money in the first game, still is. And the ecto / diamonds race didn't really give me anything of value. I could flaunt my epeen with the armor sets, or i could use them to farm a fortune in gold, but I'd have very little to spend that gold on.
Its fun how a certain group of people allways visits the forums of the next big AAA MMO to be released, and spreads their negativism. Mostly not based on game facts but on emotions. Good to know that any really good game will actually do good despte their attempts to chase away potential customers. Its obvious that the Negativism has landed on the GW2 boards after SWTOR has been released. To the neutral visitors, please base your opinion on the facts we know about GW2 combined with your own gaming needs
What about those who are just disappointed, long time GW players and supporters who are plain and simple disappointed with present game direction, are they automatically on heaters group list, do they need to be silent?
it depends on the circumstances. I know some gw1 fans that hate gw2 because it's different from gw1. And any discussion with those people to me is pointless, because they hate the game for being different. Real criticism should be about the game itself not be compared to another game. It should be the about the mechanics and how they relate to that specific game and the spirit of the game. If those are met then the criticism should be heard, but unfortunately the scenario you describe doesn't fit.
Let's replace 'hate' with 'love' in your quote:
“I know some gw1 fans that love gw2 because it's different from gw1. And any discussion with those people to me is pointless, because they love the game for being different. Real criticism should be about the game itself not be compared to another game.”
You see, same bad.
To compare with some other game its necessary so we can better understand each other, no need for over-explanation. Haters don't need to compare, they don't even need any argument.
Oh there's also the Economy. Definitely going to be a ton of mis-steps there going forward and very little if any of it will be from "Gems". Most of it will be from the fact that Anet never learned their lesson from the Supply & Demand -vs- Risk/Reward from Gw1. Instead of making Ectos a dynamic resource, they just put a bunch of bandaids on the Underworld farming that hurt casual players more than it ever hurt the Farmers and now they're just ignoring the supply problems with Diamonds too which really has been game-breaking for tons of people who wanted to HOM for Gw2.
I could go on, but I think most ppl get the point.
Inflation of gold is a real threat, so purchase of gems with real money will be mandatory for most of the players, they just can't stop illegal RMT, or I'm on completely wrong track.
Originally posted by iller ,,,Body-Blocking was removed.
Very good points.
Out of curiosity, where did you hear about Body-Blocking being removed? Definitely not happy to hear that. At the very least, it would be good for them to turn it off for friendlies, but on for hostiles (similar to WAR).
As for the economy, you're definitely right about that one. However, for me that wasn't ever really a gamebreaker. It was really easy to get money in the first game, still is. And the ecto / diamonds race didn't really give me anything of value. I could flaunt my epeen with the armor sets, or i could use them to farm a fortune in gold, but I'd have very little to spend that gold on.
Yeah the news about BB'ing was covered around August of LAST YEAR so it's no surprise the Haters never heard about it if they're only just joining us now.
Also I got a friend who's worried there won't be nearly enough cash sinks and Inflation will skyrocket just like it's done in the GW1 in the past month & 1/2. (3 months ago Diamonds cost 2plat, now they're 6plat and Granite shot up to 600g). ...I think that goes hand in hand with your assertion that it was way too easy to make money if you ran gimmicks. And that's actually a huge negative for any Cash-Shop users who trade their Gems for Gold early on.
Regarding DE's... I honestly have no idea what to expect there. I'm just as curious as everyone else on how well they'll be received and attended over the long term...... So I'm not giving them a lot of credibility for being the Savior-mechanic of the game. DE's could very well be pure hype IMHO :
Its fun how a certain group of people allways visits the forums of the next big AAA MMO to be released, and spreads their positivism. Mostly not based on game facts but on emotions. Sad to know that any really bad game will actually do good in initial box sale because of their attempts to chase away rational critics. Its obvious that the Positivism has landed on the GW2 boards since news of GW2 was first released. To the neutral visitors, please base your opinion on the facts we know about GW2 combined with your own gaming needs.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
Its fun how a certain group of people allways visits the forums of the next big AAA MMO to be released, and spreads their positivism. Mostly not based on game facts but on emotions. Sad to know that any really bad game will actually do good in initial box sale because of their attempts to chase away rational critics. Its obvious that the Positivism has landed on the GW2 boards since news of GW2 was first released. To the neutral visitors, please base your opinion on the facts we know about GW2 combined with your own gaming needs.
I think GW2 has to rely heavily on the hyped up "Positivism" primarily because its revenue will rely soley on initial box sales, THEN the secondary income of its microtransactions, which are not guaranteed.
Sadly, it's creating a mess of the MMORPG.com forums because it's a lot of word-of-mouth free advertising, good or bad.
Like the old quote goes, "even bad news is good news".
This is probably why we see so many threads, good or bad, on the forums, being kept afloat most likely by ArenaNet shills.
Honestly, I liked the original Guild Wars because it was a fun diversion when servers were down for MMO's that I play. I looked forward to Guild Wars 2 as well, but the recent bombardment of hype-related posts being plastered all over these forums are beginning to turn me off, especially the nonsensical threads that are primarily "flame" threads like this one.
but the recent bombardment of hype-related posts being plastered all over these forums are beginning to turn me off, especially the nonsensical threads that are primarily "flame" threads like this one.
The conclusion here really didn't follow the post's logic one bit.
The amount of both good and bad attention it's getting here is an issue. But you didn't make any kind of actual argument on how it's the fault of the people who are "defending" the game. I can definitely see how total zealots ruin any game for normal people by outright attacking anyone who attacks their game. But there's not enough evidence of that being the case here. And you instead launch right into pointing at this thread as an example when this is ALL that the OP said:
Originally posted by Lord.Bachus
Its fun how a certain group of people allways visits the forums of the next big AAA MMO to be released, and spreads their negativism. Mostly not based on game facts but on emotions. Good to know that any really good game will actually do good despte their attempts to chase away potential customers. Its obvious that the Negativism has landed on the GW2 boards after SWTOR has been released. To the neutral visitors, please base your opinion on the facts we know about GW2 combined with your own gaming needs
Typos aside (seriously, how difficult is it to press the edit button around here?) ... It raises a very logical observation about an ongoing trend on MMORPG without attacking anyone's else's Cow. Characterizing that as hype or hysteria makes your own points lose most of their credibility. Do you really think there's something wrong with expecting people to learn a lot more about the game before calling Doom on it and calling all its inhabitants "fanboys"? ...stop me if I'm putting words in your mouth, but that's what I'm hearing here.
Comments
Sorry you are dumb. It is negativism if the person wastes his energy on something he dislikes. It is not the same as criticism. Free thinking individuals? What the hell?
Well put.Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
What about those who are just disappointed, long time GW players and supporters who are plain and simple disappointed with present game direction, are they automatically on heaters group list, do they need to be silent?
---
"I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that."
it depends on the circumstances. I know some gw1 fans that hate gw2 because it's different from gw1. And any discussion with those people to me is pointless, because they hate the game for being different. Real criticism should be about the game itself not be compared to another game. It should be the about the mechanics and how they relate to that specific game and the spirit of the game. If those are met then the criticism should be heard, but unfortunately the scenario you describe doesn't fit.
I have to admit I have seen a lot of posts saying either the game offers nothing new or that the game can't work because it doesn't follow "the Rules".
LOL.
I see what you did thar.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
I actually know someone who is a GW1 fan and will not play GW2 because of the fact that time and events have moved on in the game world and new threats have emerged. His opinion is that once a threat to the world has been dealt with, that's that and no further stories should be told in that world.
What about those who are just disappointed, long time GW players and supporters who are plain and simple disappointed with present game direction, are they automatically on heaters group list, do they need to be silent?
I dont see why long time GW players would be any different from other potential customers in the first place, i have posted many critiical posts about the game myself, yet being critical is something different then being negative. Crtisisme when backed up by facts and reasoning is a good thing. And everyone should understand that any game including Gw2 wil be far from perfect to suit everyone. But this post is aimed at a certain group of people that jumps from game to game with only one reason, and thats to make those games look back with their negative attitude. Not based on actuall facts, but with the sole reason that they get a kick from trolling on these boards.Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Sometimes I don't understand you. With this post I do and whole heartedly agree with you. Being a GW1 player I'm not going to go into the list of things I am disappointed by in GW2. It's possible the changes will make it a great game and I hope that's the case. It will certainly be different and time will tell if those differences create a game that has any longevity. Some of us are just not into game hopping. I for one am not. I don't try every MMO that comes down the track, I probably try 15% or less now adays. I used to try a bit more then that but never every one which might explain why I've never jumped on the f2p bandwagon. There's nothing wrong with being objective and shopping around before dipping your toes into a game.
the poster formerly known as melangel :P
I wanna know where the hell these guys were when DCOU was coming out? ...coulda saved THOSE subscribers a ton of money b/c Sony really was up to no good there.
TOR has also apparently "Flopped" here according to the ratins which honestly surprised me, but I didn't watch those forums so I don't know if they were there trying to stop that hype train... Obviously it wouldn't have taken any effort on their part to say "It's WoW in space". ...maybe that's why they're failing here though. Anet has plenty of flaws but those flaws are too complex for the normal Troll to comprehend?
Lol, good question.
I know there were people saying 'TOR is basically WoW in space', but the amount of fanboys for that game burried any of those threads in seconds. There were even a few well thought out ones that explained the issues with TOR, and it just got flamed to hell.
As for Anet's flaws... they really aren't that complicated. I think the main reason the trolls aren't bringing them up, is because the flaws (that I've seen) aren't game breakers for most people. Many of them come down to personal taste, or are things like 'lag' which no one really has a doubt will get fixed.
I personally think it's just karma. GW2 fans were crucifying SWTOR before and after it released for months. GW2 fans were told to go back to their forums, but they didn't listen. So now GW2 is getting the same flack, and the GW2 fans can't take it.
I don't mean to imply that TOR's problems were simple either. When someone who played it after release explained it to me, it was actually a lot more complex than I ever expected b/c it took the game's strongest Arguement (It's Storyline) and used it against it... literally having Bioware "Swiftboating" themselves as they've also just done with ME3 here.... needless to say it's been an interesting year for EA
I think there's plenty of gamebreakers to be had... It's just that none of them are in the News. The Cashshop is literally incapable of breaking the game for instance, so copy-pasting Doom-Theorems from other MMO's won't work there. Complaining about Levels & Gear won't work either. GW2 would have to be completely rebuilt for Levels and Gear to be huge gamebreakers and there's just no time for that to happen now. Lag used to be a huge deal but that was before Body-Blocking was removed.
....but there ya go, there's a big game breaker right there when talking about combat that's supposed to revolve around "Positioning". GW1 positioning really only mattered BECAUSE of body-blocking. A good team could hold chokepoints that way or block other melees off their monks, lag be damned. And since the combat in any Action game can still be "Hacked" with aimbots when you leave the skill-index up to Mouse-Aiming, that only leaves stuf like Skll-combo'ing (or facerolling), and positioning of yourself and your spells with quick Ground-Targeting. ...I mean they COULD add aim disruption factors like Recoil but that's really no different from skill cooldowns & stuns. But really there's just no new areas to go into in game combat anymore that WON'T just pander to Basement Dwellers or ScriptKiddies.
Oh there's also the Economy. Definitely going to be a ton of mis-steps there going forward and very little if any of it will be from "Gems". Most of it will be from the fact that Anet never learned their lesson from the Supply & Demand -vs- Risk/Reward from Gw1. Instead of making Ectos a dynamic resource, they just put a bunch of bandaids on the Underworld farming that hurt casual players more than it ever hurt the Farmers and now they're just ignoring the supply problems with Diamonds too which really has been game-breaking for tons of people who wanted to HOM for Gw2.
I could go on, but I think most ppl get the point.
Its always the same crap, the same OWS mentality that hates big business or giant corporations. People, especially the under achieving and the lazy love to hate anything popular. It starts out in school when they hate on Jocks or Hot girls and carries over to the real world where they hate on things such as Wal-Mart or Big name Bands like Nickelback. There is an inferiority complex that is prevalant amonst a subset of the population and it just naturally carries over into video games.
SO when their is so much hate being shown toward GW2 then it means it is awesome and I will wear my fanboy patch as a badge of honor.
Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online
Playing: GW2
Waiting on: TESO
Next Flop: Planetside 2
Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.
To be fair, Nickelback does suck pretty hard in that generic college rock kind of way.
Thanks for this. It's nice to see people grounded in realism.
Too many threads going around talking about how GW2 is flawless countered by people claiming GW has cash shops and won't be fair and therefore destroy gaming and the world.
Game will be great, but will have flaws that will need to be ironed out.
I'm just curious to see if the DE's will end up being just another novelty that becomes old, our whether they are strong enough to base an entire game around. Can't wait to play and find out!
Then there's the type that post fallacys of composition... and Nickelback is not a "big name" group lol unless you consider how subjective the original statment is. Oh yeah and if you care to read up there is plenty of reason to hate on Walmart.
Funny how bias works huh?
And I am really looking forward to GW2...
I guess..
It's not like GW2 fans had a vendetta against TOR or anything. A lot of the complaints towards that game were coming from people who aren't even here talking about GW2. Many are now playing TERA, waiting for TSW, Archeage, or have (apparently) quit MMOs altogether.
The game had legitimate complaints, that to this day are still holding true.If it's karma, then it chose to ignore a lot of other fanbases that also took part in that criticism. But then again, I guess GW2 is percieved as 'the biggest threat'.
Very good points.
Out of curiosity, where did you hear about Body-Blocking being removed? Definitely not happy to hear that. At the very least, it would be good for them to turn it off for friendlies, but on for hostiles (similar to WAR).
As for the economy, you're definitely right about that one. However, for me that wasn't ever really a gamebreaker. It was really easy to get money in the first game, still is. And the ecto / diamonds race didn't really give me anything of value. I could flaunt my epeen with the armor sets, or i could use them to farm a fortune in gold, but I'd have very little to spend that gold on.
Let's replace 'hate' with 'love' in your quote:
“I know some gw1 fans that love gw2 because it's different from gw1. And any discussion with those people to me is pointless, because they love the game for being different. Real criticism should be about the game itself not be compared to another game.”
You see, same bad.
To compare with some other game its necessary so we can better understand each other, no need for over-explanation. Haters don't need to compare, they don't even need any argument.
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"I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that."
Inflation of gold is a real threat, so purchase of gems with real money will be mandatory for most of the players, they just can't stop illegal RMT, or I'm on completely wrong track.
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"I'm sorry Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that."
Yeah the news about BB'ing was covered around August of LAST YEAR so it's no surprise the Haters never heard about it if they're only just joining us now.
Also I got a friend who's worried there won't be nearly enough cash sinks and Inflation will skyrocket just like it's done in the GW1 in the past month & 1/2. (3 months ago Diamonds cost 2plat, now they're 6plat and Granite shot up to 600g). ...I think that goes hand in hand with your assertion that it was way too easy to make money if you ran gimmicks. And that's actually a huge negative for any Cash-Shop users who trade their Gems for Gold early on.
Regarding DE's... I honestly have no idea what to expect there. I'm just as curious as everyone else on how well they'll be received and attended over the long term...... So I'm not giving them a lot of credibility for being the Savior-mechanic of the game. DE's could very well be pure hype IMHO :
Its fun how a certain group of people allways visits the forums of the next big AAA MMO to be released, and spreads their positivism. Mostly not based on game facts but on emotions. Sad to know that any really bad game will actually do good in initial box sale because of their attempts to chase away rational critics. Its obvious that the Positivism has landed on the GW2 boards since news of GW2 was first released. To the neutral visitors, please base your opinion on the facts we know about GW2 combined with your own gaming needs.
"Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "
I think GW2 has to rely heavily on the hyped up "Positivism" primarily because its revenue will rely soley on initial box sales, THEN the secondary income of its microtransactions, which are not guaranteed.
Sadly, it's creating a mess of the MMORPG.com forums because it's a lot of word-of-mouth free advertising, good or bad.
Like the old quote goes, "even bad news is good news".
This is probably why we see so many threads, good or bad, on the forums, being kept afloat most likely by ArenaNet shills.
Honestly, I liked the original Guild Wars because it was a fun diversion when servers were down for MMO's that I play. I looked forward to Guild Wars 2 as well, but the recent bombardment of hype-related posts being plastered all over these forums are beginning to turn me off, especially the nonsensical threads that are primarily "flame" threads like this one.
The conclusion here really didn't follow the post's logic one bit.
The amount of both good and bad attention it's getting here is an issue. But you didn't make any kind of actual argument on how it's the fault of the people who are "defending" the game. I can definitely see how total zealots ruin any game for normal people by outright attacking anyone who attacks their game. But there's not enough evidence of that being the case here. And you instead launch right into pointing at this thread as an example when this is ALL that the OP said:
Typos aside (seriously, how difficult is it to press the edit button around here?) ... It raises a very logical observation about an ongoing trend on MMORPG without attacking anyone's else's Cow. Characterizing that as hype or hysteria makes your own points lose most of their credibility. Do you really think there's something wrong with expecting people to learn a lot more about the game before calling Doom on it and calling all its inhabitants "fanboys"? ...stop me if I'm putting words in your mouth, but that's what I'm hearing here.