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"Endgame Starts at Level 1" : what does this statement mean to you?
MMOExposed
Member RarePosts: 7,400
in Guild Wars 2
Anet has made the claims that in GW2 "Endgame Starts at Level 1"
I guess this can be interpreted in many different ways, especially with the removal of the scaling up feature.
But what does the statement "Endgame Starts at Level 1" means to you?
I guess this can be interpreted in many different ways, especially with the removal of the scaling up feature.
But what does the statement "Endgame Starts at Level 1" means to you?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Comments
That means the game doesn't change at max level like it does for most mmos.
It means all the mechanics I am learning will apply in top level content.
I remember soloing till 80 with my warlock and doing my first dungeon. I couldn't figure out why I kept dying when I pulled agro. Up until that point me having agro was NATURAL and I thought that was how dungeons worked. Oh how wrong I was.
GW1 parties spoiled me so much.
Play for fun. Play to win. Play for perfection. Play with friends. Play in another world. Why do you play?
It means I won't have to stop doing what I want to do because I outleveled it and all that is left are dailies and raids.
Loss of scale and vertical progression.
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As I was writing this and just finishing the post, I was listening to a GW2 interview and they literally tell you what it means, and that was AFTER I was pretty much done writing this. So its nice to be right on the money for once. Link posted at the bottom. Read on.....
Ive always related it to the dynamic events kind of system along with the scaling down.
In typical mmorpgs, once Im done with the level 10 zone, I'm pretty darn done with it. At level 30, there is no challenge or fun there. Nor is there at level 60 or 80 or what have you. If Im going back to an old zone, its to care bear. Its not to benefit myself.
However with GW2, that level 10 zone? Oh thats still fun. Thats still challenging too. There's actually no reason to not go back. There will be different things going on there than there were in your first run through more than likely anyways. I do wonder if I get appropriate or rather, useful rewards for playing in old zones. Im not sure on that. But at least there is a challenge there. Im not one hitting everything.
So at level 80 I can go back to a level 10 zone and have a blast. Im not killing everything with such ease I could do it in my sleep.
As I said, with other mmorpgs you have to have an end game. Some sort of raiding thing to do, or whatever. But with GW2, the entire world is valid at max level. The entire world is challenging. The starting zone even. I could go back to that and even get killed if Im not playing well even as an 80.
Thus? Endgame starts at level 1. And thats what Anet means. They say so. Here at around 1:05:00 in the video.
http://gdcvault.com/play/1013691/Designing-Guild-Wars-2-Dynamic
A level one is the same level as a high level within the level one area and they both can get rewarded for doing the same things.
It means I will play it the same way I played GW1. I am an altaholic.
I used to TL;DR, but then I took a bullet point to the footnote.
From a completely neutral standpoint, all this phrase means to me is that there won't be the constant excuse of, "Wait until end-game, it opens up and gets really good there!" from players enjoying the game, which really helps eliminate a lot of the biased views of the game. Much easier to get a solid understanding of how your experience is going to play out and make the decision to stay from the beginning.
I suppose it's good for the player in that sense. If you purchase the game, jump in, and immediately aren't enjoying yourself, you probably won't bother wasting your time to level a character in a game you have no future with.
Other than that, there's not much to take from it. I'm tired of the end-game concept. But then again, I'm one of those Asheron's Call heads who played for years and only got to level 125 (before cap was raised) and the gameplay really didn't change other than the locations you played at depending on the times.
To me ... in all HONESTLY ... it sounds allot like PR bullsh*t to me
That being said i hope they can pullit off
edit: it's also one of the things that got me REALLY excited for the game
its actually inaccurate =P End game starts at either lvl 15 or lvl 35.. 15 being the first meta event(Shadow behemoth?) and 35 being the first explorable dungeon. To me the statement means that the hard stuff isn't just for max lvls and can be experienced from day 1.. even though that is a tad early =P
edit: reread my own post and I want to make sure its understood that I SEE it as slightly inaccurate.
Seems clear to me.
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Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
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LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you playing an MMORPG?"
You might have access to the same KIND of content at level 1 but not to the exact same content.
There will be a ton of incentives to level up and progress in your personal story, the world, your characters skills and abilities and gear.
The quote dates back from the time "sidekicking up" wasn't taken out of the game yet and it did lose some of its meaning now that they did. At least for PVE: A level 80 will have access to all pve content, a level 1 character just to starter stuff. New dungeons will become available at every 10 levels (correct me if I'm wrong). So not different from any other progress driven mmorpg.
So for PVE I regard this quote as false.
For WvW, iffy. (True level 80's might still have big advantages over boosted lowbies).
For structured pvp: still true.
Doesn't mean I oppose it though: I hated the idea of sidekicking up. PVE endgame NOT starting at level 1? Good.
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To me, it means:
Relax and Have fun.
The entire game is end game.
How can that statement be true?
Although the difficulty of content ramps up based on level, there is no completely different mode of game play you access once you reach the level cap. The types of things you will be doing after reaching the level cap are the same type of things you've been doing on the way to the level cap.
It goes beyond that, though. The game also uses Dynamic Level Scaling to adjust your level downward when you are in regions, dungeons or other content designed for a lower level than your true level. You never "outlevel" content in GW2. However, when you are being scaled down for lower level content, you actually get XP and loot rewards based on your true level, rather than the scaled level!
Another element to remember is that the game uses Dynamic Events to provide the vast majority of PvE content in the game. Dynamic Events are designed to create the illusion of a living, breathing organic world, where the players actions, or lack of there of, make a difference on how events in the world play out. Lower level zones do not hold appeal just because of a list of quests you may have missed while leveling up; the nature and state of each zone will be notably different each time you visit, depending on the current state of a number of Dynamic Event Chains that take place with in that zone, will will keep the entire game feeling fresh.
GW2, due to it's design and business model, is able to do away with end game, never ending gear/raid based treadmills, which other games utilize in order to provide content meant to keep at cap players paying and playing.
When you reach the level cap in GW2, you literally have the entire game's worth of content to enjoy in a meaningful way.
The entire game is end game.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
It means that at level 80 you still have whole game to play instead 1 raid and few dailies.
It means they finally realized that "classic endgame" narrows content down to ridiculous level instead broadening it to whole game-world and are trying to fix it.
Also means that game is not taking 180 turn once you dinged max level.
It means don't rush things and enjoy the game, at least for me.
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It means I can take my own sweet time playing, no racing through early levels just to get to the so called meat of the game. It also means that the game is no longer a 2nd job that I have to dedicate a lot of time into just so I can be competive in both PVE and PVP.
Strictly speaking it's level 2, since you have to get out of the tutorial area first.
It means that I can endgame PvP my face of, 10mins after character creation. Some may hate the lack of a gear treadmill, but I'll welcome it with open arms.
To me it means that "endgame" is a rather silly term, usually used in games where everything before it is a long and boring tutorial.
We never talked about endgame in the classic MMOs.
I was about to reply to this thread. Then I saw this post.
+1 Corehaven
I'm really sick of the whole "There's a massive fanbase for X", or "Y would be a WoW-killer if it just had a chance".
There is no massive conspiracy waiting in the MMO playerbase.
There are no "sleeper-agent fans" waiting to convert once the X or Y is unleashed on the world.
Fix'd.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
It means I will not be buying this game LOL as it does not feel like a real MMORPG.. There are better games ou there for instant gratification..
I know you can play through and level your character up but that parts looks more and more like a single player game everytime i see new info about it...
Anyway im sure people will love this game but its not for me..