I think (along with all the other reasons already stated several times here) that it was a point blank attempt to block/curb one of the most frequently asked questions about new MMOS (especially these days): What is the end game and/or IS there an end game.
Good marketing strategy as well as being descriptive (to a degree) of one of the core game mechanics
The notion of endgame starting at level 1, to me, suggests that there is no end game in the conventional sense. It's consistent with all other information I've come across regarding this game in the sense that this game isn't an MMORPG in the way we are used to seeing.
Frankly, I'm excited at the potential. I love playing games online like Assassin's Creed, Halo, etc. I also love playing MMO RPGs like DAoC, WoW, Rift, etc. The former are a category under which I think GW2 would fall. Maybe somewhere inbetween the two? Nevertheless, the idea of endgame at level 1 suggests to me that this isn't a game where you'll have distinct stages of leveling and then end game. I still jump on Halo with friends once in a while. I love that I can pick the game up and jump in whenever. There's no feeling of progression that is pulling me towards some goal.
I'm excited about it because I play games currently with leveling and end game phases. I like them. However, the idea of a game blending elements of action online multiplayer combat in an RPG setting with character levels, ability and weapon loadouts, class specialization, etc excites me. I may be totally wrong in my speculations, but I'm sure I'll try the game for a while to see what it's like. I don't really see GW2 as an MMO RPG in the traditional sense. That's all this statement means to me.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
I still jump on Halo with friends once in a while. I love that I can pick the game up and jump in whenever. There's no feeling of progression that is pulling me towards some goal.
Some people, myself included, like that sense of progression for a character. I think it goes back to my old DND pnp days. Without that sense of reaching a higher goal, it can make the game feel someone stagnant. I certainly felt that way after reaching max level in GW1.
I don't know that I would try to make too much of a literal translation out of that. It sounds a lot like an advertising slogan to me: "You Deserve A Break Today", "Reach Out And Touch Someone", "The Dog Kids Love To Bite"..."End Game Begins At Level One".
Ballerinas are always on their toes. Why don't they just get taller ballerinas?
I guess it depends on what you want to emphasize in a gameplay experience.
Take WoW for an example. I think most people are familiar with this MMO. When you play WoW, the goal for most player is to level as quickly as possible so you can start playing the "real" game. Leveling to 85 at this point takes on average 3 days. When you hit 85, you switch modes and begin grinding normal dungeons through LFD (Looking For Dungeon) to get enough gear to grind heroic dungeons to get enough gear to do LFR (Looking For Raid) to get enough gear to do normal mode raids to get enough gear to do hard mode raids.
I believe that most players do not actually end up raiding, but for the sake of argument we'll use LFR as a baseline. Once you've completed your first LFR, you then log in over the week to grind dungeons to fill in gear slots though either VP capping to buy items, or using your one weekly reset to do LFR, hoping that RNG will bless you with what you want. If LFR is not kind to you, then you grind dungeons to get your VP cap weekly until you have enough pionts to buy the items you want.
You do the above for 8 months, farming the same 8 bosses in Dragon Soul (as an example), paying $15 a month, until the next patch or expansion comes out. You then start the whole process over. I imagine other yet-to-be-released games will follow a similar format, but we do not have full details yet.
Many, many, many people like this sytem and there's nothing wrong with that. This post is not intended to be critical of this traditional gear grind, which is generally what is meant as "end game".
GW2 attempts to make the journey itself relevant while still providing a gear grind for those that are looking for it. However, the gear is generally cosmetic and not necessary to fully enjoy the game. There have been enough explanations about this provided by people on the forums and the ANet team that I don't need to make it again.
"Loading screens" are not "instances". Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
I still jump on Halo with friends once in a while. I love that I can pick the game up and jump in whenever. There's no feeling of progression that is pulling me towards some goal.
Some people, myself included, like that sense of progression for a character. I think it goes back to my old DND pnp days. Without that sense of reaching a higher goal, it can make the game feel someone stagnant. I certainly felt that way after reaching max level in GW1.
I'm right there with you. I love progression for a character. It really adds to the immersive elements of gameplay. Beyond that, I love being able to tweak or specialize a character to suit a tactical playstyle. I didn't mean to imply that I prefer a game with no progression. Even Halo has progression. I simply mean that GW2 doesn't seem to rely as heavily on character development as standard MMOs do. It seems to rest somewhere between a Halo and an MMO where you can improve your character over time AND you can pick it up and play with everyone else without necessarily needing to sink enough time into the game to start playing with the big boys.
I completely understand your point, though. You're right that if you come to GW2 expecting a game for time sink and extensive character progression you'll probably start to experience that same feeling of stagnation. I can't imagine I'll play GW2 to the same extent that I play a more traditional MMO. It just doesn't seem to be meant for that. I'll play it like a Halo.
I guess it depends on what you want to emphasize in a gameplay experience.
Take WoW for an example. I think most people are familiar with this MMO. When you play WoW, the goal for most player is to level as quickly as possible so you can start playing the "real" game. Leveling to 85 at this point takes on average 3 days. When you hit 85, you switch modes and begin grinding dungeons to get enough gear to grind harder dungeons to get enough gear to do LFR to get enough gear to do normal mode raids to get enough gear to do hard mode raids.
Many players just stop at the LFR point, so we'll use this as a baseline. Once you've completed your first LFR, you then log in over the week to grind dungeons to fill in gear slots though either VP capping to buy items, or using your one weekly reset to do LFR, hoping that RNG will bless you with what you want. If LFR is not kind to you, then you grind dungeons to get your VP cap weekly until you have enough pionts to buy the items you want.
You do the above for 8 months, farming the same 8 bosses in Dragon Soul (as an example), paying $15 a month, until the next patch or expansion comes out. You then start the whole process over. I imagine other yet-to-be-released games will follow a similar format, but we do not have full details yet.
Many, many, many people like this sytem and there's nothing wrong with that. This post is not intended to be critical of this traditional gear grind, which is generally what is meant as "end game".
GW2 attempts to make the journey itself relevant while still providing a gear grind for those that are looking for it. However, the gear is generally cosmetic and not necessary to fully enjoy the game. There have been enough explanations about this provided by people on the forums and the ANet team that I don't need to make it again.
Its nothing new. More or less the genre started like that. "End game" just means cheap content. Because it will cost much more to keep a virtual world relevant and interesting 1-max. Players grinding end game for gear is much better from a business POV. It is amazing people can continue to enjoy it. Not because there is anything wrong with it. But sooner or later people will crave for a totally different experience. Change and diversity makes things interesting and fun.
New ideas or often old ideas returning. Recycled! But I hope trends will change. Its time for that now.
This is not a *explitive* philosofical question. In fact, this whole argument is moot and made to make people feel one way or another, and to me it's getting rather sickening.
Truth: Games are meant to give a feeling of pleasantness.
Pleasentness often comes from accomplishments. This also comes from reading a good story, sharing experiences with friends, activities like eating, physical exertions, love ect, ect.
Games of ALL sorts give their rewards in feelings of pleasentness, because they do NOTHING else, aside from some health benefits if your game involves some physical activities. They don't improve your surroundings, replace lost limbs, prevent earthquakes. In short, they don't have almost any real effect on the surroundings. Life goes on regardless of what is done in the game.
This endgame vs no-endgame is pure BS, and it should be exposed as is. You play the game you want to play it, and if you get your pleasant feeling, then it has accomplished its goal. Fighting over the "best" way to get to this feeling is really idiotic and stupid.
It's the main reason I very much dislike hype. It is used to gauge something that is unique to each person. I might get my kicks from doing the carrot on a stick run. You might get your kicks from doing PvP, others enjoy inmersing themselves in the story and RP all day, while others just like the social interactions they get. Heck, even hamsters enjoy running on their wheel. Are you going to tell them they are not getting anywhere?
If you enjoy the gear grind, and the knowledge that your time is being rewarded by actual growth of your character, know right off the bat that this game is not for you. If you enjoy vs matches against real people and an ever changing world where you can RP to your heart's delight, this just might very well be your nirvana. But if you want to judge another person's playstyle and try to justify it by saying that yours is the best one, you are just diluting yourself.
Saying GW2 endgame starts at level 1 is just what some bright posters before me have said: a marketing ploy to get other people with a different type of playstyle to give them money. If those people realize that they really actually wanted a traditional endgame, then they have been effectively conned out of their money.
GW2 is going to be a great game for many people, but not for all by far. There are going to be many people that will start to play this game based on wrong assumptions, and those will be the people that will be complaining come launch day, and they will have the forum cummunity and game advertising to blame. This game is NOT the best game ever. By definition, this would be impossible. You can't please everyone all the time. This game, however, WILL cater to a certain type of community that will happily play it for a very long time. How big this community is or will be is not determined by how much the game is hyped, but instead how in line the game mechanics are to the person's preffered playstyle. Ultimately, after enough time has passed, the community will grow (or shrink) to the levels that are proper for how it's setup and the amount of people in the community that share that type of want of playstyle.
*out of steam* No offense to the prior posters, and if you read this much, thanks. On a side note, WoW became popular because it granted micro-accomplishments very often throught the whole journey, combined with its IP. Other games, such as FFXI gave their rewards after a much conciderable time period, but it was of a much more intense nature. The 2 games are 2 different styles, and yet they have their own following. GW2 seems to have a very odd way of rewarding people. If you are PvE, the rewards seem to be based on being a completionist, as tangible rewards don't seem to be apparent. This will be a turn off to many. However, it seems to be very rich in PvP goodness. So people that can stomach that day in and day out are going to really enjoy themselves.
I still jump on Halo with friends once in a while. I love that I can pick the game up and jump in whenever. There's no feeling of progression that is pulling me towards some goal.
Some people, myself included, like that sense of progression for a character. I think it goes back to my old DND pnp days. Without that sense of reaching a higher goal, it can make the game feel someone stagnant. I certainly felt that way after reaching max level in GW1.
I share the same outlook, character progression is large part of what I enjoy about rpgs.
After watching hours of footage of people playing gw2, it's evident beyond any doubt that there is character progression on many levels (earning skill points to choose and buy skills, traits, replacing weapons with better weapons etc).
These things are constantly evident so it's looking like I'll have the character progression I enjoy minus the recent arbitrary and contrived hamster wheel model of what endgame became after WoW tried to emulate the endgame raiding of previous games and streamlined it to what I found to be an impersonal, unspecial, tedious nightly grind with an arbitrarily large amount of players.
I like what I'm seeing so far in GW2, which still allows for large events with many players, but without waiting around for 30 minutes, requiring specific amounts of players of certain roles to be online, managing a dkp system etc.
Being able to jump into large scale events like that organically sounds great to me and is something the industry should have arrived at years ago.
After raiding 'traditionally' for about 15 years, I'm really glad to see the fundamentals of the aspects I enjoy evolve into a form that doesn't include all the tedious elements that only served as drama fuel.
to be frank this whole endgame at level 1 thing is great purely because people like you wont be playing the game. This is from someone who used to do 4 or 5 raids a day in Aion as a member in SunShine. You
lol Sunshine the ultimate e-peen guild. Yeah I remember how you ruined Zikel and broke promises and your sole intent was to make the other faction want to quit the game. Oh the good old days. Yeah I am that Puremallace that helped organize those sad Asmos to take you guys on for a little bit.
It will be awfully nice knowing that the top Asmo guild from Aion are migrating over to GW2 and will destroy you guys in WvWVW if you get pitted on different servers.
I'm right there with you. I love progression for a character. It really adds to the immersive elements of gameplay. Beyond that, I love being able to tweak or specialize a character to suit a tactical playstyle. I didn't mean to imply that I prefer a game with no progression. Even Halo has progression. I simply mean that GW2 doesn't seem to rely as heavily on character development as standard MMOs do. It seems to rest somewhere between a Halo and an MMO where you can improve your character over time AND you can pick it up and play with everyone else without necessarily needing to sink enough time into the game to start playing with the big boys.
I completely understand your point, though. You're right that if you come to GW2 expecting a game for time sink and extensive character progression you'll probably start to experience that same feeling of stagnation. I can't imagine I'll play GW2 to the same extent that I play a more traditional MMO. It just doesn't seem to be meant for that. I'll play it like a Halo.
Exactly. Although I don't play Halo, I can get your point. I think the problem with the hype surrounding GW1 is a lot of people expected it to be a B2P MMO with the same depth and experience as a traditional MMO. Even though there is all these discussions of how GW2 is nothing like GW1, I am trying to approach it like I would to a new expanion of GW1: something to play for a bit while still keeping an account with my main MMO of choice.
I share the same outlook, character progression is large part of what I enjoy about rpgs.
After watching hours of footage of people playing gw2, it's evident beyond any doubt that there is character progression on many levels (earning skill points to choose and buy skills, traits, replacing weapons with better weapons etc).
These things are constantly evident so it's looking like I'll have the character progression I enjoy minus the recent arbitrary and contrived hamster wheel model of what endgame became after WoW tried to emulate the endgame raiding of previous games and streamlined it to what I found to be an impersonal, unspecial, tedious nightly grind with an arbitrarily large amount of players.
I like what I'm seeing so far in GW2, which still allows for large events with many players, but without waiting around for 30 minutes, requiring specific amounts of players of certain roles to be online, managing a dkp system etc.
Being able to jump into large scale events like that organically sounds great to me and is something the industry should have arrived at years ago.
After raiding 'traditionally' for about 15 years, I'm really glad to see the fundamentals of the aspects I enjoy evolve into a form that doesn't include all the tedious elements that only served as drama fuel.
Yep, I'm never been a fan of any MMO endgame content. I've traditionally played till max level and then sort of move on. The whole notion of raiding to me seems boring.
I tend to find the journey the most enjoyable within MMOs. It really hasn't been until recently (post-WoW) that this whole notion of 'endgame' has become so prevalent with people rushing through content to arrive there. It's not something I understand or can relate to.
However, even though there was no true end-game in GW1, I was put off by the fact that your character progression sort of ended at level 20; a level that you achieved very early in the game. Sure, you could still go through the remaining content to achieve skill unlocks and equipment, but it never felt quite the same as leveling in a tradtional MMO. So, post-20 GW1 felt a bit dull to me.
Go play WoW, SWTOR, or Tera. We'll be here having fun with something new and innovative.
Lets look at games that do not have meaningful leveling:
1. Pokemon
2. My little pony adventure island
3. Facebook games
This strategy of making end game start at lvl 1 LITERALLY only makes sense if this agme had half the shit Archage does and it is not even remotely close to having those types of sandbox features. The dynamic events are pointless. Sorry there is zero reason to actually do them and that is the major thing in this game.
[Mod Edit]
I will have words with any man who dares insinuate that my Pokemon leveling up isn't meaningful.
I worked HARD to evolve my Pokemon. Those gym badges don't win themselves.
Ive always related it to the dynamic events kind of system along with the scaling down.
In typical mmorpgs, once Im done with the level 10 zone, I'm pretty darn done with it. At level 30, there is no challenge or fun there. Nor is there at level 60 or 80 or what have you. If Im going back to an old zone, its to care bear. Its not to benefit myself.
However with GW2, that level 10 zone? Oh thats still fun. Thats still challenging too. There's actually no reason to not go back. There will be different things going on there than there were in your first run through more than likely anyways. I do wonder if I get appropriate or rather, useful rewards for playing in old zones. Im not sure on that. But at least there is a challenge there. Im not one hitting everything.
So at level 80 I can go back to a level 10 zone and have a blast. Im not killing everything with such ease I could do it in my sleep.
As I said, with other mmorpgs you have to have an end game. Some sort of raiding thing to do, or whatever. But with GW2, the entire world is valid at max level. The entire world is challenging. The starting zone even. I could go back to that and even get killed if Im not playing well even as an 80.
Thus? Endgame starts at level 1. And thats what Anet means. They say so. Here at around 1:05:00 in the video.
Topic answered numerous times on the first page. Most elaborated by Corehaven. Btw, thank you MMOexposed for yet another counter-productive thread on yet another tired topic.
For those that have ever played the first guild wars, or are not so engrained in their mindset as to thinking that all MMOs have to play like lvling binges in which you then automatically switch at max lvl to daily grinds & gear treadmills, this entire discussion is rather laughable.
The entire concept of 'endgame' as people here are understanding it, is not only absolutely unnecessary, there have already been games made without it. And yet, there are still obviously gamers that can't seem to grasp this. They automatically equate 'no endgame' with 'no content', when in almost every case it's the reverse that's usually true.
You want a game that you throw out 90% of the content just to get to a position to daily / weekly grind that last 5-10%, you've got pleanty of games that do that for you. You want a game where what you're doing at lvl 1 is still relevant and challenging at lvl 80, well now we finally have a game that does this, in a very short list of MMOs that do this.
And sense I know a lot of people here don't read past the first post / thread title, here again is the link to where Anet themselves explain this.
to be frank this whole endgame at level 1 thing is great purely because people like you wont be playing the game. This is from someone who used to do 4 or 5 raids a day in Aion as a member in SunShine. You
lol Sunshine the ultimate e-peen guild. Yeah I remember how you ruined Zikel and broke promises and your sole intent was to make the other faction want to quit the game. Oh the good old days. Yeah I am that Puremallace that helped organize those sad Asmos to take you guys on for a little bit.
It will be awfully nice knowing that the top Asmo guild from Aion are migrating over to GW2 and will destroy you guys in WvWVW if you get pitted on different servers.
And i remember you guy saying you will save zikel. Also SunShine wasn't about epeen, we just did whatever we wanted to. We worked hard, stayed organize and united elyos, while asmos bitch,moan, complained and fought among themselves.
it just too bad you guys (asmos) were in our way. Also, it wasn't our legion intent to make others quit, we just didn't like any of the asmos enough to want to make them happy either. And we honestly tried to help you clowns, but you really cant help clowns that don't want to help themselves.
Also given how SunShine doesn't exist anymore for all intensive purposes and given how WvW is on a server rotation model, I wonder how you so called guild "TOP"( no legion except flawless could ever stand to us) asmo guild fare against a non existent legion.
However, even though there was no true end-game in GW1, I was put off by the fact that your character progression sort of ended at level 20; a level that you achieved very early in the game. Sure, you could still go through the remaining content to achieve skill unlocks and equipment, but it never felt quite the same as leveling in a tradtional MMO. So, post-20 GW1 felt a bit dull to me.
I believe that these two factors can contribute to what you are looking for, but again, people looking for a more traditional gear progression will be disappointed.
"Loading screens" are not "instances". Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
Anet has made the claims that in GW2 "Endgame Starts at Level 1"
I guess this can be interpreted in many different ways, especially with the removal of the scaling up feature.
But what does the statement "Endgame Starts at Level 1" means to you?
Endgame doesnt exist, its made up in the minds of players...
What does exist is content to be played if possible for a long time, endgame is whatever makes you play a game, it can be to collect the most pets ingame...thats a type of endgame.
Nothing....Statements, declarations, and whatever else mean nothing.... I won't like something any more or less because a company said something... It will be what it is...
It could have alot of meanings.....The mroe I am hearing about GW2 though, the more skeptical I am becoming...... I am a Journey is greater than the destination type of player, and it sounds like there isn't much of a journey in GW2....No gear grinding, not many levels, and end game starts at level 1 are really not things I want to hear....It sounds like the entire game is going to be the wvwvw scenario and Im really not sure if that is going to be all that great.
Comments
I think (along with all the other reasons already stated several times here) that it was a point blank attempt to block/curb one of the most frequently asked questions about new MMOS (especially these days): What is the end game and/or IS there an end game.
Good marketing strategy as well as being descriptive (to a degree) of one of the core game mechanics
The notion of endgame starting at level 1, to me, suggests that there is no end game in the conventional sense. It's consistent with all other information I've come across regarding this game in the sense that this game isn't an MMORPG in the way we are used to seeing.
Frankly, I'm excited at the potential. I love playing games online like Assassin's Creed, Halo, etc. I also love playing MMO RPGs like DAoC, WoW, Rift, etc. The former are a category under which I think GW2 would fall. Maybe somewhere inbetween the two? Nevertheless, the idea of endgame at level 1 suggests to me that this isn't a game where you'll have distinct stages of leveling and then end game. I still jump on Halo with friends once in a while. I love that I can pick the game up and jump in whenever. There's no feeling of progression that is pulling me towards some goal.
I'm excited about it because I play games currently with leveling and end game phases. I like them. However, the idea of a game blending elements of action online multiplayer combat in an RPG setting with character levels, ability and weapon loadouts, class specialization, etc excites me. I may be totally wrong in my speculations, but I'm sure I'll try the game for a while to see what it's like. I don't really see GW2 as an MMO RPG in the traditional sense. That's all this statement means to me.
Means no grinding to max level to get to the meat and potatoes of the game. Means there is PLENTY of meat and potatoes in this game.
It means their marketing department gets a raise.
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means - except by getting off his back.
Some people, myself included, like that sense of progression for a character. I think it goes back to my old DND pnp days. Without that sense of reaching a higher goal, it can make the game feel someone stagnant. I certainly felt that way after reaching max level in GW1.
I don't know that I would try to make too much of a literal translation out of that. It sounds a lot like an advertising slogan to me: "You Deserve A Break Today", "Reach Out And Touch Someone", "The Dog Kids Love To Bite"..."End Game Begins At Level One".
Ballerinas are always on their toes. Why don't they just get taller ballerinas?
I guess it depends on what you want to emphasize in a gameplay experience.
Take WoW for an example. I think most people are familiar with this MMO. When you play WoW, the goal for most player is to level as quickly as possible so you can start playing the "real" game. Leveling to 85 at this point takes on average 3 days. When you hit 85, you switch modes and begin grinding normal dungeons through LFD (Looking For Dungeon) to get enough gear to grind heroic dungeons to get enough gear to do LFR (Looking For Raid) to get enough gear to do normal mode raids to get enough gear to do hard mode raids.
I believe that most players do not actually end up raiding, but for the sake of argument we'll use LFR as a baseline. Once you've completed your first LFR, you then log in over the week to grind dungeons to fill in gear slots though either VP capping to buy items, or using your one weekly reset to do LFR, hoping that RNG will bless you with what you want. If LFR is not kind to you, then you grind dungeons to get your VP cap weekly until you have enough pionts to buy the items you want.
You do the above for 8 months, farming the same 8 bosses in Dragon Soul (as an example), paying $15 a month, until the next patch or expansion comes out. You then start the whole process over. I imagine other yet-to-be-released games will follow a similar format, but we do not have full details yet.
Many, many, many people like this sytem and there's nothing wrong with that. This post is not intended to be critical of this traditional gear grind, which is generally what is meant as "end game".
GW2 attempts to make the journey itself relevant while still providing a gear grind for those that are looking for it. However, the gear is generally cosmetic and not necessary to fully enjoy the game. There have been enough explanations about this provided by people on the forums and the ANet team that I don't need to make it again.
"Loading screens" are not "instances".
Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
I'm right there with you. I love progression for a character. It really adds to the immersive elements of gameplay. Beyond that, I love being able to tweak or specialize a character to suit a tactical playstyle. I didn't mean to imply that I prefer a game with no progression. Even Halo has progression. I simply mean that GW2 doesn't seem to rely as heavily on character development as standard MMOs do. It seems to rest somewhere between a Halo and an MMO where you can improve your character over time AND you can pick it up and play with everyone else without necessarily needing to sink enough time into the game to start playing with the big boys.
I completely understand your point, though. You're right that if you come to GW2 expecting a game for time sink and extensive character progression you'll probably start to experience that same feeling of stagnation. I can't imagine I'll play GW2 to the same extent that I play a more traditional MMO. It just doesn't seem to be meant for that. I'll play it like a Halo.
Means the epic starts at creation. There's still some progression but you don't have to start with rats in the sewer.
To me it's what Warhammer failed to do. I was excited when I played a Witch Elf and got to fight a dragon before level 10! Then it went downhill.
I'd like a game that keeps up epic battles all the way though instead of only after 100+ hours played...
Its nothing new. More or less the genre started like that. "End game" just means cheap content. Because it will cost much more to keep a virtual world relevant and interesting 1-max. Players grinding end game for gear is much better from a business POV. It is amazing people can continue to enjoy it. Not because there is anything wrong with it. But sooner or later people will crave for a totally different experience. Change and diversity makes things interesting and fun.
New ideas or often old ideas returning. Recycled! But I hope trends will change. Its time for that now.
It means that GW2 is the "End Game" of the MMORPG genre. This is what you have been slogging your way through all of those other games to get to.
This is not a *explitive* philosofical question. In fact, this whole argument is moot and made to make people feel one way or another, and to me it's getting rather sickening.
Truth: Games are meant to give a feeling of pleasantness.
Pleasentness often comes from accomplishments. This also comes from reading a good story, sharing experiences with friends, activities like eating, physical exertions, love ect, ect.
Games of ALL sorts give their rewards in feelings of pleasentness, because they do NOTHING else, aside from some health benefits if your game involves some physical activities. They don't improve your surroundings, replace lost limbs, prevent earthquakes. In short, they don't have almost any real effect on the surroundings. Life goes on regardless of what is done in the game.
This endgame vs no-endgame is pure BS, and it should be exposed as is. You play the game you want to play it, and if you get your pleasant feeling, then it has accomplished its goal. Fighting over the "best" way to get to this feeling is really idiotic and stupid.
It's the main reason I very much dislike hype. It is used to gauge something that is unique to each person. I might get my kicks from doing the carrot on a stick run. You might get your kicks from doing PvP, others enjoy inmersing themselves in the story and RP all day, while others just like the social interactions they get. Heck, even hamsters enjoy running on their wheel. Are you going to tell them they are not getting anywhere?
If you enjoy the gear grind, and the knowledge that your time is being rewarded by actual growth of your character, know right off the bat that this game is not for you. If you enjoy vs matches against real people and an ever changing world where you can RP to your heart's delight, this just might very well be your nirvana. But if you want to judge another person's playstyle and try to justify it by saying that yours is the best one, you are just diluting yourself.
Saying GW2 endgame starts at level 1 is just what some bright posters before me have said: a marketing ploy to get other people with a different type of playstyle to give them money. If those people realize that they really actually wanted a traditional endgame, then they have been effectively conned out of their money.
GW2 is going to be a great game for many people, but not for all by far. There are going to be many people that will start to play this game based on wrong assumptions, and those will be the people that will be complaining come launch day, and they will have the forum cummunity and game advertising to blame. This game is NOT the best game ever. By definition, this would be impossible. You can't please everyone all the time. This game, however, WILL cater to a certain type of community that will happily play it for a very long time. How big this community is or will be is not determined by how much the game is hyped, but instead how in line the game mechanics are to the person's preffered playstyle. Ultimately, after enough time has passed, the community will grow (or shrink) to the levels that are proper for how it's setup and the amount of people in the community that share that type of want of playstyle.
*out of steam* No offense to the prior posters, and if you read this much, thanks. On a side note, WoW became popular because it granted micro-accomplishments very often throught the whole journey, combined with its IP. Other games, such as FFXI gave their rewards after a much conciderable time period, but it was of a much more intense nature. The 2 games are 2 different styles, and yet they have their own following. GW2 seems to have a very odd way of rewarding people. If you are PvE, the rewards seem to be based on being a completionist, as tangible rewards don't seem to be apparent. This will be a turn off to many. However, it seems to be very rich in PvP goodness. So people that can stomach that day in and day out are going to really enjoy themselves.
I share the same outlook, character progression is large part of what I enjoy about rpgs.
After watching hours of footage of people playing gw2, it's evident beyond any doubt that there is character progression on many levels (earning skill points to choose and buy skills, traits, replacing weapons with better weapons etc).
These things are constantly evident so it's looking like I'll have the character progression I enjoy minus the recent arbitrary and contrived hamster wheel model of what endgame became after WoW tried to emulate the endgame raiding of previous games and streamlined it to what I found to be an impersonal, unspecial, tedious nightly grind with an arbitrarily large amount of players.
I like what I'm seeing so far in GW2, which still allows for large events with many players, but without waiting around for 30 minutes, requiring specific amounts of players of certain roles to be online, managing a dkp system etc.
Being able to jump into large scale events like that organically sounds great to me and is something the industry should have arrived at years ago.
After raiding 'traditionally' for about 15 years, I'm really glad to see the fundamentals of the aspects I enjoy evolve into a form that doesn't include all the tedious elements that only served as drama fuel.
lol Sunshine the ultimate e-peen guild. Yeah I remember how you ruined Zikel and broke promises and your sole intent was to make the other faction want to quit the game. Oh the good old days. Yeah I am that Puremallace that helped organize those sad Asmos to take you guys on for a little bit.
It will be awfully nice knowing that the top Asmo guild from Aion are migrating over to GW2 and will destroy you guys in WvWVW if you get pitted on different servers.
Exactly. Although I don't play Halo, I can get your point. I think the problem with the hype surrounding GW1 is a lot of people expected it to be a B2P MMO with the same depth and experience as a traditional MMO. Even though there is all these discussions of how GW2 is nothing like GW1, I am trying to approach it like I would to a new expanion of GW1: something to play for a bit while still keeping an account with my main MMO of choice.
Yep, I'm never been a fan of any MMO endgame content. I've traditionally played till max level and then sort of move on. The whole notion of raiding to me seems boring.
I tend to find the journey the most enjoyable within MMOs. It really hasn't been until recently (post-WoW) that this whole notion of 'endgame' has become so prevalent with people rushing through content to arrive there. It's not something I understand or can relate to.
However, even though there was no true end-game in GW1, I was put off by the fact that your character progression sort of ended at level 20; a level that you achieved very early in the game. Sure, you could still go through the remaining content to achieve skill unlocks and equipment, but it never felt quite the same as leveling in a tradtional MMO. So, post-20 GW1 felt a bit dull to me.
I just hope that isn't the case with GW2.
I will have words with any man who dares insinuate that my Pokemon leveling up isn't meaningful.
I worked HARD to evolve my Pokemon. Those gym badges don't win themselves.
To me this means I can access content that is considered end game at lv 1 (like WvW, PvP)
Guild Wars 2 Youtube Croatian Maniacs
My Guild Wars titles
Topic answered numerous times on the first page. Most elaborated by Corehaven. Btw, thank you MMOexposed for yet another counter-productive thread on yet another tired topic.
For those that have ever played the first guild wars, or are not so engrained in their mindset as to thinking that all MMOs have to play like lvling binges in which you then automatically switch at max lvl to daily grinds & gear treadmills, this entire discussion is rather laughable.
The entire concept of 'endgame' as people here are understanding it, is not only absolutely unnecessary, there have already been games made without it. And yet, there are still obviously gamers that can't seem to grasp this. They automatically equate 'no endgame' with 'no content', when in almost every case it's the reverse that's usually true.
You want a game that you throw out 90% of the content just to get to a position to daily / weekly grind that last 5-10%, you've got pleanty of games that do that for you. You want a game where what you're doing at lvl 1 is still relevant and challenging at lvl 80, well now we finally have a game that does this, in a very short list of MMOs that do this.
And sense I know a lot of people here don't read past the first post / thread title, here again is the link to where Anet themselves explain this.
http://gdcvault.com/play/1013691/Designing-Guild-Wars-2-Dynamic
General Discussion » "Endgame Starts at Level 1" : what does this statement mean to you?
Baby Galactus.
Let's internet
And i remember you guy saying you will save zikel. Also SunShine wasn't about epeen, we just did whatever we wanted to. We worked hard, stayed organize and united elyos, while asmos bitch,moan, complained and fought among themselves.
it just too bad you guys (asmos) were in our way. Also, it wasn't our legion intent to make others quit, we just didn't like any of the asmos enough to want to make them happy either. And we honestly tried to help you clowns, but you really cant help clowns that don't want to help themselves.
Also given how SunShine doesn't exist anymore for all intensive purposes and given how WvW is on a server rotation model, I wonder how you so called guild "TOP"( no legion except flawless could ever stand to us) asmo guild fare against a non existent legion.
You might want to check out the trait system:
http://news.mmosite.com/content/q/12-02-29/guild_wars_2_dev_blog_explains_traits_and_attributes_systems.shtml
This does provide further character "progression" and differentiation, at least from my point of view.
Additionally, there are around 20 skills per class that can be unlocked as part of your progression:
http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Utility_skill
I believe that these two factors can contribute to what you are looking for, but again, people looking for a more traditional gear progression will be disappointed.
"Loading screens" are not "instances".
Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
Endgame doesnt exist, its made up in the minds of players...
What does exist is content to be played if possible for a long time, endgame is whatever makes you play a game, it can be to collect the most pets ingame...thats a type of endgame.
Nothing....Statements, declarations, and whatever else mean nothing.... I won't like something any more or less because a company said something... It will be what it is...
It could have alot of meanings.....The mroe I am hearing about GW2 though, the more skeptical I am becoming...... I am a Journey is greater than the destination type of player, and it sounds like there isn't much of a journey in GW2....No gear grinding, not many levels, and end game starts at level 1 are really not things I want to hear....It sounds like the entire game is going to be the wvwvw scenario and Im really not sure if that is going to be all that great.