That means the game doesn't change at max level like it does for most mmos.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
From a completely neutral standpoint, all this phrase means to me is that there won't be the constant excuse of, "Wait until end-game, it opens up and gets really good there!"
Won't work, the boards will light up in the traditional GW1 fashion for a few weeks (make this game more like Wow!), and the majority of those players will turn around and head back to their comfortable gear-based game design.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
acutally "endgame starts on L1" is an Utopia in a RPG. a desirable goal, which is impossible to reach. other than a "Vison", which is reachable.
it would mean, that:
1. there is NO vertical progression, just horizontal / lateral
2. every content is available on L1
3. you still can use all content in a meaningful way as a high-level
ad 1: the vertical progression in GW2 is definately there, but it is shorter than in other MMOs. you dont choose a class, you choose a profession and learn additional roles of this profession. so you learn new weapons and progress a bit vertically inside the weapons skillset. new weapons are horizontal progression. but there are a lot of general skills and traits which allow you further vertical progression.
ad 2: as a high level you can do WvW, crafting, dynamic events, dungeons and more. you cant do dungeons on L1 but all the rest. this does not mean, that you are good in WvW and other stuff as a L1, but you can participate.
ad 3: we will see if this is just theory or really feasible. i understand, that you are downscaled and you can redo that way older content with challenge. the question is: does it makes sense? will i do it or am I bored to death doing so? if they extend existing dynamic events during expansions with new and / or extended branches and outcomes, then i guess it will make sense and fun. but if not, i doubt.
so it is an Utopia. and I doubt, this Utopia would really be desirable, if fully implementable. but GW2 is close to it. which means it is far away from the MMO-model of the last years. and this alone is worth my bucks.
Well, just like in EVE it would appear that every area of the gameworld is just as viable at level 80 as it is at level 1. Also, every activity you participate in continues. Unlike EVE however vertical progression does for all purposes come to an end (cosmetics aside) which makes GW2 a different sort of MMORPG, more of an action based game than VWRPG. Also unlike EVE its still a theme park by most definitions.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Games have the content they have. Endgame does not give a game more content in itself. It just give the game content that you can spend more time doing.
Endgame is a response to the need to have something to play when you have outleveled all of the games other content. And the point is in most cases players have not even played what they could because they have just powerleveling past most available content. This is what happen in most standard MMO's.
To keep having content in that situation alot of endgame is designed around grinding progressiv for a longer and longer time, (often already something a player is used to as getting to last levels of his character has taken longer and longer).
The illusion of content is that the gab between experiencing something ( a dungeoun) and succeding in completing the experience is prolonged in ways that make it nessacerry to repeat doing the same content to progress. And when that is combined with being more powerfull as you progress, the system actual measure your strength in the game as a funktion of the time you have succesfully progressed in its endgame.
Lets not forget that this actual works and give alot of players a sense of accomplisment, and something to do in a game they else would feel done with. And this really makes sense to have in a subscribtion based MMO, because else these players would leave the game they are done with.
But lets also not forget that a lot of players don't buy the illusion of that being content. That actual never takes part in the endgame, because they are put off buy the requirement to repeat the same content in such a dedicated and timeconsuming way.
This is then where GW2 is revolutionary, and it is so hard to grasp for players conditioned to think that endgame is needed.
But first if there is no need to keep players subscribed , things can be done very different.
And second if you don't need to seperate players in those who have done something and those who has not ( and therefore are not worthy before they climb the grind threadmill) you can again do things very different.
This is then done in GW2 with down scaling (while still getting drops at your normal level) that opens up all the areas, a normal powergamer would have outleveled in a few days, for play at max level
If you can't outlevel content, there is no need to talk about or have endgame, because all content is still playable.
ArenaNet with their new approach make it looks like endgame is just compensation for bad game design. And for all those put off by normal grind endgame it sure is.
For those that are addicted to the grind experience and the display of time equal being powerfull that is involved, GW2 solution does not give them alot to continue that way of playing. Because there really is no such endgame. But those there just like the sense of accomplishment , but not the grind thread mill, will find some gloryfied thing to do though, but not really as endgame.
The critic will say that sooner or later you will have done all the content in the game , and then what? There might be more content to do because of GW2 smart downscaling , but after that is played there is still no raid endgame to keep you playing
And thats right, then the game is done, accept it, and enjoy that there is no subscribtion fee to worry about in that case, but also consider that ArenaNets buisness models is based on peple buying expansions , and when enough players are done with the game, it would be weird if ArenaNet does not then have an expansion ready. thats how it worked in GW1.
acutally "endgame starts on L1" is an Utopia in a RPG. a desirable goal, which is impossible to reach. other than a "Vison", which is reachable.
it would mean, that:
1. there is NO vertical progression, just horizontal / lateral
2. every content is available on L1
3. you still can use all content in a meaningful way as a high-level
1. False. It means the avenues of progression are optional. For example, plenty of UOers had a character, main or alt, that they never levelled.
2. False. Content doesn't drastically change at some point after level 1.
3. Mostly true. I won't touch 'all' because nothing is absolute, however in games like UO, EVE and Puzzle Pirates - three games where the phrase 'endgame starts at level 1' could apply - the gear and resources I used on Day One are still viable and usable years later.
In UO, the player that likes the look and sound of a broadsword doesn't have to give that up.... ever. The same with weapons and gear in Puzzle Pirates. In both those games, the resources needed to make low tier gear are still in demand to make high tier gear. In Puzzle Pirates, you'll find plenty of veteran players still sailing sloops - the ship they enjoy doesn't automagically become useless just because they leveled up. It's still a useful, effective and fun ship five years later.
The same with ships in EVE - frigates are one of the most commonly flown ships and they are the first ship a player uses. IN all three of those games, the items a new player finds and the resources they gather are of value to veteran players. You cannot build a supercarrier, one of the most massive ships in the EVE universe, without tritanium, the most basic of mined materials.
In each of those games, the content areas are not locked down or designed to shut anyone out (Well, maybe Wind in UO) based on 'level'.
If you think in terms of mainstream MMOs, you are correct - it is a utopian idea, as the core design of the game prohibits it. However, MMOs don't have to all be designed that way. In fact, they are not.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Anet has made the claims that in GW2 "Endgame Starts at Level 1"
I guess this can be interpreted in many different ways, especially with the removal of the scaling up feature.
But what does the statement "Endgame Starts at Level 1" means to you?
Means to me;
It's not a race to the end
The fun starts when you first play
The game is the content and not the build up to the good stuff.
Encourages replay and exploration
I feel they're trying to say that they've focused on the whole game as the fun part, while other MMO's like to focus on encouraging people to grind to the level cap just to play the really fun bits. It's a good philosophy imo.
Endgame: This always struck me as a term to describe the end of the game. In an MMO there is no end of the game, there is just the game. The term's usage in an ever expanding genre where the game never ends till they shut the servers off, is mind boggling.
Scale up is still in the game but only operate in pvp. In pve players get scaled down to the zone level. Makes sense if you think about it.
Sounds like a bunch of marketing hype bullshit to me.
Honestly, if there is no character progression after lvl cap, I can't see being too interested in playing after a month or two. I'm not much of an altaholic so rolling multiple characters or going back and doing low level content after lvl cap for no reason doesn't appeal to me. Not that I'm a fan of gear progression and raiding or anything. But at least that is better than nothing at all.
Not having anything to do at endgame except the same shit that you've been doing from the beginning of the game just sounds like lazy development to me. If it was any other themepark MMO on the planet and it had no world pvp or endgame content people woulld be screaming for the heads of the developers children.
But I'm willing to reserve judgement until I try it out. My expectations are low so hopefully I will be pleasantly surprised.
Sounds like a bunch of marketing hype bullshit to me.
Honestly, if there is no character progression after lvl cap, I can't see being too interested in playing after a month or two. I'm not much of an altaholic so rolling multiple characters or going back and doing low level content after lvl cap for no reason doesn't appeal to me. Not that I'm a fan of gear progression and raiding or anything. But at least that is better than nothing at all.
Not having anything to do at endgame except the same shit that you've been doing from the beginning of the game just sounds like lazy development to me. If it was any other themepark MMO on the planet and it had no world pvp or endgame content people woulld be screaming for the heads of the developers children.
But I'm willing to reserve judgement until I try it out. My expectations are low so hopefully I will be pleasantly surprised.
With the different starting areas, it should make playing alts easier as you will get different experiences and your personal story should be unique to each. We shall see next week.
It's based on the standard mantra of modern MMO's: "Well, the game doesn'treally start until you hit the level cap."
The idea is to make a game fun to play from level 1 until level whatever.
Personally, I wish we could just drop the idea of levels altogether. If your game world and the content is interesting and challenging enough, you don't need things like character progression.
I want to play a game where I'm part of a living world. If gaining levels and loot is the whole point of playing, I might as well just go play Progress Quest.
Just a marketing ploy to appease the "end-game" players...to convince them, as it were that the entire game is an end game because in actuality there is no typical end-game in GW2.
Nothing more.
We'll see if it works.
-------------
"Hey John, we launch soon and we still don't have any end-game"
"I know. We never wanted end-game"
"But MMO people always want end-game. Look at all the complaints about Bioware and no end game with their star wars game"
"Sorry, Bob, but we are not making an end-game."
"So how do I still sell this game to people wanting an end-game?"
"I don't know. Have your marketing guys figure out something"
"Ok....I'll get them to say something like 'end-game starts at level 1'"
They weren't going to have levels originally. They added them in to make the game seem more familiar to players. It means that levels really mean nothing in this game and that there is no gear grind at level 80, and that everything you do is supposed to be as challenging from level 1 as it is at max level. And I love that.
It's based on the standard mantra of modern MMO's: "Well, the game doesn'treally start until you hit the level cap."
The idea is to make a game fun to play from level 1 until level whatever.
Personally, I wish we could just drop the idea of levels altogether. If your game world and the content is interesting and challenging enough, you don't need things like character progression.
I want to play a game where I'm part of a living world. If gaining levels and loot is the whole point of playing, I might as well just go play Progress Quest.
There must be some sort of character progress. Levels are not the only option. How can you be motivated if there is no way to improve your character? All MMORPG:s, both themepark and sandbox, are based on character progress.
If you dont like that you should probably try a FPS game instead.
In the real world you get older. You learn new things. You get a job and perhaps you will get better and better and advance to better positions and get more money. A living virtual world will need that too. If its done right it will be immersive.
Just a marketing ploy to appease the "end-game" players...to convince them, as it were that the entire game is an end game because in actuality there is no typical end-game in GW2.
Nothing more.
We'll see if it works.
-------------
"Hey John, we launch soon and we still don't have any end-game"
"I know. We never wanted end-game"
"But MMO people always want end-game. Look at all the complaints about Bioware and no end game with their star wars game"
"Sorry, Bob, but we are not making an end-game."
"So how do I still sell this game to people wanting an end-game?"
"I don't know. Have your marketing guys figure out something"
"Ok....I'll get them to say something like 'end-game starts at level 1'"
"FIne. I don't care. I'm just a developer."
This game is not for everyone, and I can see many MMO players that still love to do coordinated 10+man raids will not find elite dynamic events to be as engaging as a typical instanced raid (mostly because the guild can't account for all the other non-guildies in the event). This is fine. If they chose to buy it and play it for a month or 2, then they got their money's worth. They can quit the game and maybe they had enough fun leveling that they will come back for an expansion.
It means that I can expect epic boss fights, quests, dungeons, story, combat, gear, at any zone at any level. That I won't have to wait until 80 to "experience" the true content, that I don't have to race to MAX lvl and all I did before was meaningless. I won't need to be trying to reach MAX level for epic pvp combat.
I like this, I don't want a game that tells me "You have to reach the highest level to fully experience our content" when it already bores me for the first 10. I'd rather have them throw everything at me to impress me, hope I am next weekend
Remember... all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.
‘‘ Throw your old fashion thinking out the window and realize that we're breaking the mold.There is no such thing as 'endgame' in our game. Can you imagine not having treadmill-raiding as your ultimate goal? Can you imagine just playing the game, from the very beginning, and just keep playing it for the fun of it? No? Okay then... Endgame starts at level 1... ARE YOU HAPPY NAO??!1
yes becaue its so much fairer for all concerned if you can pwn people in combat because you have a bigger sword right, personal skill shouldnt be a factor..
on the other hand, the best PvP games tend to be ones that allow players to succeed, or fail, based on their own abilities. maybe need to accept that the end game for GW2 is the PvP, and if you can't handle it without having some kind of advantage. then PvP probably isnt for you.
Expect another carebear game that try's to halt the great evil progression monster. but since it has levels expect those that love grinding for the best end game gear to come here to cry about how the genre is now dead and GW2 failed them due to hype.
Sorry but there's a lot arguing about there being no character progression. First of all there is, you get new skills, weapons and armour as you progress through the game. That's character progression. You wont visit each and every zone/hub while getting to 80 so you will go do dungeons or lower level hubs/areas for bits of gear you like/want.
The focus in this game isn't even that though, your character is just a tool, YOUR the one that's being progressed at "endgame";
Your skills as a player are being fine tuned
Your class understanding improves
Your combat awareness increases
Your trait build, through experimentation, improves
Your teamwork in both PVP and PVE improves as you enter ad-hoc grouping areas
If you seriously need a carrot to have fun then i suggest you seriously look elsewhere.
I wanna do what I wanna do and have fun, not what some Developer THINKS I wanna do. I want options, I want the ability to hang with complete noobs and not have my fun destroyed by fart arsing about or emo quits. I want the option to create alts and have a COMPLETELY different experience with each character. The roller coaster is boring, I want a steering wheel. The haves and have nots will still be there but it'll be about skill not sparkles, about achievements not dungeon tokens.
If you like to be told how to have fun go play something else, if you like to make your own fun then give it a shot. Progress is whatever you want it to be in this game, it has all bases covered but people are stuck on the whole "but levelling isn't supposed to be fun" mentality.
Took me 7 days to grind out a character in WOW, that's 7 days of complete and utter boredom only to get to the good stuff.
The stick is broken, the carrot tasted like garbage.
I've always taken it to mean the variety of content available to you at max level is the same as the variety of content available to you throughout the leveling process.
Comments
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
When you make a lvl1 character going ingame game ends:P
Serieus who cares GW2 will be different from the bulk of games that have a similar gameplay model sinds 90's witch was boring.
Now you can have endgame battles as lvl1 when playing 5min.
Endgame as we know is gone FOREVER no more silly endgame arguements finally where saved GW2 is comming with 100%start/endgame from day1
And im glad i won't see all these carrot on a stick gamers there gone forever finally we can start a real game:)
Won't work, the boards will light up in the traditional GW1 fashion for a few weeks (make this game more like Wow!), and the majority of those players will turn around and head back to their comfortable gear-based game design.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
acutally "endgame starts on L1" is an Utopia in a RPG. a desirable goal, which is impossible to reach. other than a "Vison", which is reachable.
it would mean, that:
1. there is NO vertical progression, just horizontal / lateral
2. every content is available on L1
3. you still can use all content in a meaningful way as a high-level
ad 1: the vertical progression in GW2 is definately there, but it is shorter than in other MMOs. you dont choose a class, you choose a profession and learn additional roles of this profession. so you learn new weapons and progress a bit vertically inside the weapons skillset. new weapons are horizontal progression. but there are a lot of general skills and traits which allow you further vertical progression.
ad 2: as a high level you can do WvW, crafting, dynamic events, dungeons and more. you cant do dungeons on L1 but all the rest. this does not mean, that you are good in WvW and other stuff as a L1, but you can participate.
ad 3: we will see if this is just theory or really feasible. i understand, that you are downscaled and you can redo that way older content with challenge. the question is: does it makes sense? will i do it or am I bored to death doing so? if they extend existing dynamic events during expansions with new and / or extended branches and outcomes, then i guess it will make sense and fun. but if not, i doubt.
so it is an Utopia. and I doubt, this Utopia would really be desirable, if fully implementable. but GW2 is close to it. which means it is far away from the MMO-model of the last years. and this alone is worth my bucks.
played: Everquest I (6 years), EVE (3 years)
months: EQII, Vanguard, Siedler Online, SWTOR, Guild Wars 2
weeks: WoW, Shaiya, Darkfall, Florensia, Entropia, Aion, Lotro, Fallen Earth, Uncharted Waters
days: DDO, RoM, FFXIV, STO, Atlantica, PotBS, Maestia, WAR, AoC, Gods&Heroes, Cultures, RIFT, Forsaken World, Allodds
There is no beginning or middle.
-----
The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Games have the content they have. Endgame does not give a game more content in itself. It just give the game content that you can spend more time doing.
Endgame is a response to the need to have something to play when you have outleveled all of the games other content. And the point is in most cases players have not even played what they could because they have just powerleveling past most available content. This is what happen in most standard MMO's.
To keep having content in that situation alot of endgame is designed around grinding progressiv for a longer and longer time, (often already something a player is used to as getting to last levels of his character has taken longer and longer).
The illusion of content is that the gab between experiencing something ( a dungeoun) and succeding in completing the experience is prolonged in ways that make it nessacerry to repeat doing the same content to progress. And when that is combined with being more powerfull as you progress, the system actual measure your strength in the game as a funktion of the time you have succesfully progressed in its endgame.
Lets not forget that this actual works and give alot of players a sense of accomplisment, and something to do in a game they else would feel done with. And this really makes sense to have in a subscribtion based MMO, because else these players would leave the game they are done with.
But lets also not forget that a lot of players don't buy the illusion of that being content. That actual never takes part in the endgame, because they are put off buy the requirement to repeat the same content in such a dedicated and timeconsuming way.
This is then where GW2 is revolutionary, and it is so hard to grasp for players conditioned to think that endgame is needed.
But first if there is no need to keep players subscribed , things can be done very different.
And second if you don't need to seperate players in those who have done something and those who has not ( and therefore are not worthy before they climb the grind threadmill) you can again do things very different.
This is then done in GW2 with down scaling (while still getting drops at your normal level) that opens up all the areas, a normal powergamer would have outleveled in a few days, for play at max level
If you can't outlevel content, there is no need to talk about or have endgame, because all content is still playable.
ArenaNet with their new approach make it looks like endgame is just compensation for bad game design. And for all those put off by normal grind endgame it sure is.
For those that are addicted to the grind experience and the display of time equal being powerfull that is involved, GW2 solution does not give them alot to continue that way of playing. Because there really is no such endgame. But those there just like the sense of accomplishment , but not the grind thread mill, will find some gloryfied thing to do though, but not really as endgame.
The critic will say that sooner or later you will have done all the content in the game , and then what? There might be more content to do because of GW2 smart downscaling , but after that is played there is still no raid endgame to keep you playing
And thats right, then the game is done, accept it, and enjoy that there is no subscribtion fee to worry about in that case, but also consider that ArenaNets buisness models is based on peple buying expansions , and when enough players are done with the game, it would be weird if ArenaNet does not then have an expansion ready. thats how it worked in GW1.
1. False. It means the avenues of progression are optional. For example, plenty of UOers had a character, main or alt, that they never levelled.
2. False. Content doesn't drastically change at some point after level 1.
3. Mostly true. I won't touch 'all' because nothing is absolute, however in games like UO, EVE and Puzzle Pirates - three games where the phrase 'endgame starts at level 1' could apply - the gear and resources I used on Day One are still viable and usable years later.
In UO, the player that likes the look and sound of a broadsword doesn't have to give that up.... ever. The same with weapons and gear in Puzzle Pirates. In both those games, the resources needed to make low tier gear are still in demand to make high tier gear. In Puzzle Pirates, you'll find plenty of veteran players still sailing sloops - the ship they enjoy doesn't automagically become useless just because they leveled up. It's still a useful, effective and fun ship five years later.
The same with ships in EVE - frigates are one of the most commonly flown ships and they are the first ship a player uses. IN all three of those games, the items a new player finds and the resources they gather are of value to veteran players. You cannot build a supercarrier, one of the most massive ships in the EVE universe, without tritanium, the most basic of mined materials.
In each of those games, the content areas are not locked down or designed to shut anyone out (Well, maybe Wind in UO) based on 'level'.
If you think in terms of mainstream MMOs, you are correct - it is a utopian idea, as the core design of the game prohibits it. However, MMOs don't have to all be designed that way. In fact, they are not.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Means to me;
It's not a race to the end
The fun starts when you first play
The game is the content and not the build up to the good stuff.
Encourages replay and exploration
I feel they're trying to say that they've focused on the whole game as the fun part, while other MMO's like to focus on encouraging people to grind to the level cap just to play the really fun bits. It's a good philosophy imo.
Endgame: This always struck me as a term to describe the end of the game. In an MMO there is no end of the game, there is just the game. The term's usage in an ever expanding genre where the game never ends till they shut the servers off, is mind boggling.
Scale up is still in the game but only operate in pvp. In pve players get scaled down to the zone level. Makes sense if you think about it.
Sounds like a bunch of marketing hype bullshit to me.
Honestly, if there is no character progression after lvl cap, I can't see being too interested in playing after a month or two. I'm not much of an altaholic so rolling multiple characters or going back and doing low level content after lvl cap for no reason doesn't appeal to me. Not that I'm a fan of gear progression and raiding or anything. But at least that is better than nothing at all.
Not having anything to do at endgame except the same shit that you've been doing from the beginning of the game just sounds like lazy development to me. If it was any other themepark MMO on the planet and it had no world pvp or endgame content people woulld be screaming for the heads of the developers children.
But I'm willing to reserve judgement until I try it out. My expectations are low so hopefully I will be pleasantly surprised.
With the different starting areas, it should make playing alts easier as you will get different experiences and your personal story should be unique to each. We shall see next week.
It's based on the standard mantra of modern MMO's: "Well, the game doesn't really start until you hit the level cap."
The idea is to make a game fun to play from level 1 until level whatever.
Personally, I wish we could just drop the idea of levels altogether. If your game world and the content is interesting and challenging enough, you don't need things like character progression.
I want to play a game where I'm part of a living world. If gaining levels and loot is the whole point of playing, I might as well just go play Progress Quest.
Just a marketing ploy to appease the "end-game" players...to convince them, as it were that the entire game is an end game because in actuality there is no typical end-game in GW2.
Nothing more.
We'll see if it works.
-------------
"Hey John, we launch soon and we still don't have any end-game"
"I know. We never wanted end-game"
"But MMO people always want end-game. Look at all the complaints about Bioware and no end game with their star wars game"
"Sorry, Bob, but we are not making an end-game."
"So how do I still sell this game to people wanting an end-game?"
"I don't know. Have your marketing guys figure out something"
"Ok....I'll get them to say something like 'end-game starts at level 1'"
"FIne. I don't care. I'm just a developer."
They weren't going to have levels originally. They added them in to make the game seem more familiar to players. It means that levels really mean nothing in this game and that there is no gear grind at level 80, and that everything you do is supposed to be as challenging from level 1 as it is at max level. And I love that.
There must be some sort of character progress. Levels are not the only option. How can you be motivated if there is no way to improve your character? All MMORPG:s, both themepark and sandbox, are based on character progress.
If you dont like that you should probably try a FPS game instead.
In the real world you get older. You learn new things. You get a job and perhaps you will get better and better and advance to better positions and get more money. A living virtual world will need that too. If its done right it will be immersive.
It means it's one of the very few MMO's out there that actually tries to be a game.
This game is not for everyone, and I can see many MMO players that still love to do coordinated 10+man raids will not find elite dynamic events to be as engaging as a typical instanced raid (mostly because the guild can't account for all the other non-guildies in the event). This is fine. If they chose to buy it and play it for a month or 2, then they got their money's worth. They can quit the game and maybe they had enough fun leveling that they will come back for an expansion.
It means that I can expect epic boss fights, quests, dungeons, story, combat, gear, at any zone at any level. That I won't have to wait until 80 to "experience" the true content, that I don't have to race to MAX lvl and all I did before was meaningless. I won't need to be trying to reach MAX level for epic pvp combat.
I like this, I don't want a game that tells me "You have to reach the highest level to fully experience our content" when it already bores me for the first 10. I'd rather have them throw everything at me to impress me, hope I am next weekend
Remember... all I'm offering is the truth. Nothing more.
It means:
‘‘ Throw your old fashion thinking out the window and realize that we're breaking the mold. There is no such thing as 'endgame' in our game. Can you imagine not having treadmill-raiding as your ultimate goal? Can you imagine just playing the game, from the very beginning, and just keep playing it for the fun of it? No? Okay then... Endgame starts at level 1... ARE YOU HAPPY NAO??!1
it means that the game is designed well. This is the way all games should be in my opinion.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
yes becaue its so much fairer for all concerned if you can pwn people in combat because you have a bigger sword right, personal skill shouldnt be a factor..
on the other hand, the best PvP games tend to be ones that allow players to succeed, or fail, based on their own abilities. maybe need to accept that the end game for GW2 is the PvP, and if you can't handle it without having some kind of advantage. then PvP probably isnt for you.
For me it means, there's no endgame.
Expect another carebear game that try's to halt the great evil progression monster. but since it has levels expect those that love grinding for the best end game gear to come here to cry about how the genre is now dead and GW2 failed them due to hype.
Sorry but there's a lot arguing about there being no character progression. First of all there is, you get new skills, weapons and armour as you progress through the game. That's character progression. You wont visit each and every zone/hub while getting to 80 so you will go do dungeons or lower level hubs/areas for bits of gear you like/want.
The focus in this game isn't even that though, your character is just a tool, YOUR the one that's being progressed at "endgame";
Your skills as a player are being fine tuned
Your class understanding improves
Your combat awareness increases
Your trait build, through experimentation, improves
Your teamwork in both PVP and PVE improves as you enter ad-hoc grouping areas
If you seriously need a carrot to have fun then i suggest you seriously look elsewhere.
I wanna do what I wanna do and have fun, not what some Developer THINKS I wanna do. I want options, I want the ability to hang with complete noobs and not have my fun destroyed by fart arsing about or emo quits. I want the option to create alts and have a COMPLETELY different experience with each character. The roller coaster is boring, I want a steering wheel. The haves and have nots will still be there but it'll be about skill not sparkles, about achievements not dungeon tokens.
If you like to be told how to have fun go play something else, if you like to make your own fun then give it a shot. Progress is whatever you want it to be in this game, it has all bases covered but people are stuck on the whole "but levelling isn't supposed to be fun" mentality.
Took me 7 days to grind out a character in WOW, that's 7 days of complete and utter boredom only to get to the good stuff.
The stick is broken, the carrot tasted like garbage.
I've always taken it to mean the variety of content available to you at max level is the same as the variety of content available to you throughout the leveling process.