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This beta weekend, riot against the gems and cash shop

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Comments

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Originally posted by Betakodo

    Originally posted by Distopia

    You're entitled to your opinion, but so is anyone else. What's wrong with preferring something with the quality GW2 seems to have, while also wanting to support them through extra means?

    I would need to ask what is wrong with RMT and gold buying in other games and why it is fine in Guild Wars 2 all of a sudden? The Guild Wars series has been about no subscriptions and they pre-date the cash shop era. The cash shop came in after the game died, when there was scant a population left and Arenanet's community manager said they were to support a server with no income. Apparently that was either a lie, or they got greedy.

    Either way, the current norm of the MMO industry is $0 game with cash shop. Not $60 game with cash shop. Guild Wars 2 will make more money by the time they launch than any successful F2p game will have. That is because it costs $0 to play a F2P game with a cash shop, but $60 to play Guild Wars 2 which will have a cash shop.

    That, my friends is the evil of encroachment. Much like on disc DLC on console games.

    Well there are only two or three MMO's I know of (WAR, RIFT, TOR) that don't offer a cash-shop on top of a sub, the rest are all f2p (or going..vanguard), or sub+shop. So I can't agree with what you assess as the current norm.

    As for your question, there isn't anything wrong with the basic concept across the board to me, some may take things to far P2W, but all in all, I don't see anything wrong with it, it's always basically optional, or one time fee content.

     

     

     

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

     

     

    Well you implied that either Cash Shop or RMT gems was okay because it is simply a way to support the company through extra means. I replied that there are other ways to show extra support for GW2. 

    There is nothing wrong to want to support GW2 through extra means, but certain methods come with perceived disadvantages for the industry as a whole or at least the players in that game. 

    This really remains to be seen though, we won't know if there are disadvantages until the game is finalized.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • BetakodoBetakodo Member UncommonPosts: 333

    Originally posted by Terrorizor

    So what type of people object to cash shops in B2P games?

     


    • People that have more time then money (example: unemployed welfare recipients that prefer to game instead of contributing to society)

    1. These people don't like cash shops because they can't participate, and don't feel that it's right for others to enjoy benefits that they are not allowed.

    2. Cash shops should always allow the same rewards to be offered via time effort instead of cash so that these people can use their excess time to reap the same rewards as those people who choose to pay.

    • People that feel they need to combat a moral betrayal of the developers by trying to actually turn a profit.

    1. These people feel that everything should be free. They have a tendency to be completely self serving and shouldn't play the game at all.

    2. They should make their own game and play it by themselves.

    • People that feel they are going to lose out on some advantage by not buying, making it impossible for them to show off their leet skillz and uberness to the rest of the gaming community. (Elitists, ubergeeks, etc)

    1. These people hold their own personal merit by how well they are recognized in a virtual (pretend) world.

    2. They should probably go outside and do something real. Maybe actually meet a friend in real life or do something that actually deserves merit.

    • People that just want to complain, and will nitpick at anything just because they can. (Example: Trolls, Haters, Jealous Fanboi's, generally unhappy people)

    1. These people just cause grief because they are compensating for the problems in their real life. They hate because their environment and the people around them is cruel. Neglect, abuse and betrayal are all contributing factors to a hateful personality.

    2. These people should be pitied.

     


    So have I missed anyone? 


     


    Please note that the examples issued are by no means the only manner of people that may fit into a specific group, and none of the examples are intended on creating a stereotype. They are just simply one possible example.

    Uhhh I can't help but think you are biased and support the cash shop as you only listed negative player stereotypes. Besides, I think this is the first B2P only game that actually had a cash shop.

    So yeah, you missed the people who know that so far, only F2P games have cash shops and people who expect their $60 purchase to have everything in them.

    Actually, the disgusting shame goes to WoW and The secret world for having B2P + subs + Cash shop. When WoW did that I said I would never play that game again. Not playing the secret world because of that also, but not the only reason.

  • 1carcarah11carcarah1 Member Posts: 172

    Originally posted by Terrorizor

    So what type of people object to cash shops in B2P games?

     


    • People that have more time then money (example: unemployed welfare recipients that prefer to game instead of contributing to society)

    1. These people don't like cash shops because they can't participate, and don't feel that it's right for others to enjoy benefits that they are not allowed.

    2. Cash shops should always allow the same rewards to be offered via time effort instead of cash so that these people can use their excess time to reap the same rewards as those people who choose to pay.

    • People that feel they need to combat a moral betrayal of the developers by trying to actually turn a profit.

    1. These people feel that everything should be free. They have a tendency to be completely self serving and shouldn't play the game at all.

    2. They should make their own game and play it by themselves.

    • People that feel they are going to lose out on some advantage by not buying, making it impossible for them to show off their leet skillz and uberness to the rest of the gaming community. (Elitists, ubergeeks, etc)

    1. These people hold their own personal merit by how well they are recognized in a virtual (pretend) world.

    2. They should probably go outside and do something real. Maybe actually meet a friend in real life or do something that actually deserves merit.

    • People that just want to complain, and will nitpick at anything just because they can. (Example: Trolls, Haters, Jealous Fanboi's, generally unhappy people)

    1. These people just cause grief because they are compensating for the problems in their real life. They hate because their environment and the people around them is cruel. Neglect, abuse and betrayal are all contributing factors to a hateful personality.

    2. These people should be pitied.

     


    So have I missed anyone? 


     


    Please note that the examples issued are by no means the only manner of people that may fit into a specific group, and none of the examples are intended on creating a stereotype. They are just simply one possible example.

    Awesome post XD

  • HonnerHonner Member Posts: 504

    Originally posted by Terrorizor

    So what type of people object to cash shops in B2P games?

     


    • People that have more time then money (example: unemployed welfare recipients that prefer to game instead of contributing to society)

    1. These people don't like cash shops because they can't participate, and don't feel that it's right for others to enjoy benefits that they are not allowed.

    2. Cash shops should always allow the same rewards to be offered via time effort instead of cash so that these people can use their excess time to reap the same rewards as those people who choose to pay.

    • People that feel they need to combat a moral betrayal of the developers by trying to actually turn a profit.

    1. These people feel that everything should be free. They have a tendency to be completely self serving and shouldn't play the game at all.

    2. They should make their own game and play it by themselves.

    • People that feel they are going to lose out on some advantage by not buying, making it impossible for them to show off their leet skillz and uberness to the rest of the gaming community. (Elitists, ubergeeks, etc)

    1. These people hold their own personal merit by how well they are recognized in a virtual (pretend) world.

    2. They should probably go outside and do something real. Maybe actually meet a friend in real life or do something that actually deserves merit.

    • People that just want to complain, and will nitpick at anything just because they can. (Example: Trolls, Haters, Jealous Fanboi's, generally unhappy people)

    1. These people just cause grief because they are compensating for the problems in their real life. They hate because their environment and the people around them is cruel. Neglect, abuse and betrayal are all contributing factors to a hateful personality.

    2. These people should be pitied.

     


    So have I missed anyone? 


     


    Please note that the examples issued are by no means the only manner of people that may fit into a specific group, and none of the examples are intended on creating a stereotype. They are just simply one possible example.

    yeah you missed the kind of people who don't want a CS because they can't resist expend too much money on it haha

  • TerrorizorTerrorizor Member Posts: 326

    Originally posted by Betakodo

    ...

    What are you going to write? Please, reach into my wallet more!

    You do realize, what you have in PvE is what you got in WvW! Siege weapons cost gold, so does the commander position.

    So here is a thought. Why don't you rise up and really show them how you will not stand for this injustice, and don't play! Be a real hero and vote with your wallet. It's a much better scenario then trying to rally a whole bunch of people who don't care what you think.

  • HonnerHonner Member Posts: 504

    Originally posted by Betakodo

    Originally posted by Terrorizor

     
    Actually, the disgusting shame goes to WoW and The secret world for having B2P + subs + Cash shop. When WoW did that I said I would never play that game again. Not playing the secret world because of that also, but not the only reason.

    That's my problem with the P2P games I understand they have a sub for whatever, but if you have a sub why the hell you have a CS, B2P and expensive extra services (change name, server, etc)

  • TerrorizorTerrorizor Member Posts: 326

    Originally posted by Betakodo

    Originally posted by Terrorizor

    So what type of people object to cash shops in B2P games?

     


    • People that have more time then money (example: unemployed welfare recipients that prefer to game instead of contributing to society)

    1. These people don't like cash shops because they can't participate, and don't feel that it's right for others to enjoy benefits that they are not allowed.

    2. Cash shops should always allow the same rewards to be offered via time effort instead of cash so that these people can use their excess time to reap the same rewards as those people who choose to pay.

    • People that feel they need to combat a moral betrayal of the developers by trying to actually turn a profit.

    1. These people feel that everything should be free. They have a tendency to be completely self serving and shouldn't play the game at all.

    2. They should make their own game and play it by themselves.

    • People that feel they are going to lose out on some advantage by not buying, making it impossible for them to show off their leet skillz and uberness to the rest of the gaming community. (Elitists, ubergeeks, etc)

    1. These people hold their own personal merit by how well they are recognized in a virtual (pretend) world.

    2. They should probably go outside and do something real. Maybe actually meet a friend in real life or do something that actually deserves merit.

    • People that just want to complain, and will nitpick at anything just because they can. (Example: Trolls, Haters, Jealous Fanboi's, generally unhappy people)

    1. These people just cause grief because they are compensating for the problems in their real life. They hate because their environment and the people around them is cruel. Neglect, abuse and betrayal are all contributing factors to a hateful personality.

    2. These people should be pitied.

     


    So have I missed anyone? 


     


    Please note that the examples issued are by no means the only manner of people that may fit into a specific group, and none of the examples are intended on creating a stereotype. They are just simply one possible example.

    Uhhh I can't help but think you are biased and support the cash shop as you only listed negative player stereotypes. Besides, I think this is the first B2P only game that actually had a cash shop.

    So yeah, you missed the people who know that so far, only F2P games have cash shops and people who expect their $60 purchase to have everything in them.

    Actually, the disgusting shame goes to WoW and The secret world for having B2P + subs + Cash shop. When WoW did that I said I would never play that game again. Not playing the secret world because of that also, but not the only reason.

    Actually, GW had a cash shop as early as the factions campaign. So your first point is invalid.

    The people that you feel I missed are covered under the second group.

    I don't much care about WoW and TSW as I don't plan on ever playing either. Thanks for commenting.

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155

    Originally posted by heartless

    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by colddog04


    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by grimfall


    Originally posted by heartless

     


    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

     
     (quotes)

    Again, if the competition is not actually built into the game, we should not expect the developers to care about it. It's a simple as that.

    PvP is not a very good example anyway. The very nature of PvP makes it a competition. You're competing against another player because you're both trying to kill each other's character. So it doesn't matter if the develop adds ladders or rankings, as PvP is competitive because it's you vs the other guy.

    If the argumentation is valid, then every time an item is going to be put up on auction/market, it automatically creates a competition. The sellers are in competition with each other, while the buyers are also in competition with each other. The buyers can buy advantage by trading their gems for ingame currency.

     

    So thank you for proving that GW2's gem-for-gold is automatically Pay-to-win in a competition sanctioned by Arenanet themselves.

     

    Thank you.

    Who wins? The guy that pays real money for items or the guy that pays gold for items?

     

    Is it a tie?

    I win because I'm going to enjoy the game instead of worrying sick about what other players are doing with their free time and expendable income.

    The buyer who wins the sanctioned competition, is the buyer who gets the item. The seller can very well set the price of a rare item such that only the one who spends real life money to get gold, would  realistically be able to get enough gold to buy the item. If the buyer spent gems to get enough gold to buy the item and he gets the item, regardless of how other potential buyers  obtained their gold, that particular buyer paid to win that competition.

    Items don't really mean a lot in this game. They are mostly cosmetic. So the buyer wins a prettier item. Is it really a competition? Does it matter? Who cares? I already have all of the HoM item rewards which are going to have unique skins. I basically won anyway.

    As far as the whole gold for gems issue. Gems can only be traded to other players. You can't just buy gems and sell them to an NPC for gold. In order for someone to afford your gem prices, they would need to actually farm enough gold. In other words, gems do not automatically make you rich.

    It is still a sactioned competition; whether or not people actually care about that competition, is different question entirely.

    "Rich" is a relative term and you can become rich in gold by trading enough gems for gold. 

    If the game revolved around getting rich, it would be a problem. But it doesn't, so it's not. You're grasping at straws, my dear chap. I will say this again: ANet has designed this game in a particular way and we have to decide if we want to buy it based on whether or not their design appeals to us. The design appeals to me, it obviously doesn't appeal to you. You can attempt to rationalize anything you want but the fact is that I will still play this game because the gems for gold trade does not bother me at all.

    I'll leave you with this question though: In order for the person to get rich by trading enough gems for gold, there has to be a demand for gems but if gold is more desirable than gems, then who would trade it for gems?

    You are the one that argued that the competitions that should matter are those that are sanctioned. You furthermore argued that PVP competition is always sanctioned by the mere existence of PVP since it is inheretely competitive. By the same argumentation, the buying/selling competitions are competitions that should matter. 

     

    I think the whole viewpoint is odd and that just because something is inheretely competitive, it shouldn't automatically mean that it is a competition that should matter. I think that developers themselves and the players decide which competitions matter. Since so many people care about PvP competitions, the developers ought to take consideration to it if they have PVP in their game. 

     

    Using my train of thoughts, in a game where only 1% of the population cares about the buying/selling competitions, the developers have good reason to not put much thought into those competitions, even though the buying/selling through a market/auction is inheretely competitive.

     

    I have no idea how large or small % of the potential players had competitions, which they personally found relevant, affected by GW2's item mall system, but they do indeed have the right to feel that the item mall caused unnecessary negative effects. 

     

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155

    Originally posted by Terrorizor

    Originally posted by Betakodo


    Originally posted by Terrorizor

    So what type of people object to cash shops in B2P games?

     


    • People that have more time then money (example: unemployed welfare recipients that prefer to game instead of contributing to society)

    1. These people don't like cash shops because they can't participate, and don't feel that it's right for others to enjoy benefits that they are not allowed.

    2. Cash shops should always allow the same rewards to be offered via time effort instead of cash so that these people can use their excess time to reap the same rewards as those people who choose to pay.

    • People that feel they need to combat a moral betrayal of the developers by trying to actually turn a profit.

    1. These people feel that everything should be free. They have a tendency to be completely self serving and shouldn't play the game at all.

    2. They should make their own game and play it by themselves.

    • People that feel they are going to lose out on some advantage by not buying, making it impossible for them to show off their leet skillz and uberness to the rest of the gaming community. (Elitists, ubergeeks, etc)

    1. These people hold their own personal merit by how well they are recognized in a virtual (pretend) world.

    2. They should probably go outside and do something real. Maybe actually meet a friend in real life or do something that actually deserves merit.

    • People that just want to complain, and will nitpick at anything just because they can. (Example: Trolls, Haters, Jealous Fanboi's, generally unhappy people)

    1. These people just cause grief because they are compensating for the problems in their real life. They hate because their environment and the people around them is cruel. Neglect, abuse and betrayal are all contributing factors to a hateful personality.

    2. These people should be pitied.

     


    So have I missed anyone? 


     


    Please note that the examples issued are by no means the only manner of people that may fit into a specific group, and none of the examples are intended on creating a stereotype. They are just simply one possible example.

    Uhhh I can't help but think you are biased and support the cash shop as you only listed negative player stereotypes. Besides, I think this is the first B2P only game that actually had a cash shop.

    So yeah, you missed the people who know that so far, only F2P games have cash shops and people who expect their $60 purchase to have everything in them.

    Actually, the disgusting shame goes to WoW and The secret world for having B2P + subs + Cash shop. When WoW did that I said I would never play that game again. Not playing the secret world because of that also, but not the only reason.

    Actually, GW had a cash shop as early as the factions campaign. So your first point is invalid.

    The people that you feel I missed are covered under the second group.

    I don't much care about WoW and TSW as I don't plan on ever playing either. Thanks for commenting.

    A problem with your list, is that several of what you call "examples" are not examples, but they are derogatory attacks against the people of the groups. 

  • TerrorizorTerrorizor Member Posts: 326

    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

    Originally posted by Terrorizor


    Originally posted by Betakodo


    Originally posted by Terrorizor

    So what type of people object to cash shops in B2P games?

     


    • People that have more time then money (example: unemployed welfare recipients that prefer to game instead of contributing to society)

    1. These people don't like cash shops because they can't participate, and don't feel that it's right for others to enjoy benefits that they are not allowed.

    2. Cash shops should always allow the same rewards to be offered via time effort instead of cash so that these people can use their excess time to reap the same rewards as those people who choose to pay.

    • People that feel they need to combat a moral betrayal of the developers by trying to actually turn a profit.

    1. These people feel that everything should be free. They have a tendency to be completely self serving and shouldn't play the game at all.

    2. They should make their own game and play it by themselves.

    • People that feel they are going to lose out on some advantage by not buying, making it impossible for them to show off their leet skillz and uberness to the rest of the gaming community. (Elitists, ubergeeks, etc)

    1. These people hold their own personal merit by how well they are recognized in a virtual (pretend) world.

    2. They should probably go outside and do something real. Maybe actually meet a friend in real life or do something that actually deserves merit.

    • People that just want to complain, and will nitpick at anything just because they can. (Example: Trolls, Haters, Jealous Fanboi's, generally unhappy people)

    1. These people just cause grief because they are compensating for the problems in their real life. They hate because their environment and the people around them is cruel. Neglect, abuse and betrayal are all contributing factors to a hateful personality.

    2. These people should be pitied.

     


    So have I missed anyone? 


     


    Please note that the examples issued are by no means the only manner of people that may fit into a specific group, and none of the examples are intended on creating a stereotype. They are just simply one possible example.

    Uhhh I can't help but think you are biased and support the cash shop as you only listed negative player stereotypes. Besides, I think this is the first B2P only game that actually had a cash shop.

    So yeah, you missed the people who know that so far, only F2P games have cash shops and people who expect their $60 purchase to have everything in them.

    Actually, the disgusting shame goes to WoW and The secret world for having B2P + subs + Cash shop. When WoW did that I said I would never play that game again. Not playing the secret world because of that also, but not the only reason.

    Actually, GW had a cash shop as early as the factions campaign. So your first point is invalid.

    The people that you feel I missed are covered under the second group.

    I don't much care about WoW and TSW as I don't plan on ever playing either. Thanks for commenting.

    A problem with your list, is that several of what you call "examples" are not examples, but they are derogatory attacks against the people of the groups. 

    Derogatory or not, those types of people do exist, and are justifiable parts of said groups. As I stated however, those particular examples are not all of the contributing personality types of any group, and listing them is not intending on creating a stereotype.  I apologize for not having the time and inclination to try and list every possible personality scenario into each group, as the group itself describes what qualifies for personality types it includes.  Examples are just examples, nothing more.

  • Skarecrow7Skarecrow7 Member UncommonPosts: 339

    Here's a little gas for the fire.... MOST F2P games started off as buy a box, then 15 bucks a month (DDO, lotr, Aion to name a few).  They seem to be doing much better and not hearing too much complaining about their cash shop. Heck, most people are saying that Tera will probably get rid of subs and go cash shop in a year or so. Seems to me that is the way the market wants it. Seems only EA and Blizzard is trying to hold on to that $15 of month.

    image

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155

    Originally posted by Terrorizor

    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


    Originally posted by Terrorizor


    Originally posted by Betakodo


    Originally posted by Terrorizor

    So what type of people object to cash shops in B2P games?

     


    • People that have more time then money (example: unemployed welfare recipients that prefer to game instead of contributing to society)

    1. These people don't like cash shops because they can't participate, and don't feel that it's right for others to enjoy benefits that they are not allowed.

    2. Cash shops should always allow the same rewards to be offered via time effort instead of cash so that these people can use their excess time to reap the same rewards as those people who choose to pay.

    • People that feel they need to combat a moral betrayal of the developers by trying to actually turn a profit.

    1. These people feel that everything should be free. They have a tendency to be completely self serving and shouldn't play the game at all.

    2. They should make their own game and play it by themselves.

    • People that feel they are going to lose out on some advantage by not buying, making it impossible for them to show off their leet skillz and uberness to the rest of the gaming community. (Elitists, ubergeeks, etc)

    1. These people hold their own personal merit by how well they are recognized in a virtual (pretend) world.

    2. They should probably go outside and do something real. Maybe actually meet a friend in real life or do something that actually deserves merit.

    • People that just want to complain, and will nitpick at anything just because they can. (Example: Trolls, Haters, Jealous Fanboi's, generally unhappy people)

    1. These people just cause grief because they are compensating for the problems in their real life. They hate because their environment and the people around them is cruel. Neglect, abuse and betrayal are all contributing factors to a hateful personality.

    2. These people should be pitied.

     


    So have I missed anyone? 


     


    Please note that the examples issued are by no means the only manner of people that may fit into a specific group, and none of the examples are intended on creating a stereotype. They are just simply one possible example.

    Uhhh I can't help but think you are biased and support the cash shop as you only listed negative player stereotypes. Besides, I think this is the first B2P only game that actually had a cash shop.

    So yeah, you missed the people who know that so far, only F2P games have cash shops and people who expect their $60 purchase to have everything in them.

    Actually, the disgusting shame goes to WoW and The secret world for having B2P + subs + Cash shop. When WoW did that I said I would never play that game again. Not playing the secret world because of that also, but not the only reason.

    Actually, GW had a cash shop as early as the factions campaign. So your first point is invalid.

    The people that you feel I missed are covered under the second group.

    I don't much care about WoW and TSW as I don't plan on ever playing either. Thanks for commenting.

    A problem with your list, is that several of what you call "examples" are not examples, but they are derogatory attacks against the people of the groups. 

    Derogatory or not, those types of people do exist, and are justifiable parts of said groups. As I stated however, those particular examples are not all of the contributing personality types of any group, and listing them is not intending on creating a stereotype.  I apologize for not having the time and inclination to try and list every possible personality scenario into each group, as the group itself describes what qualifies for personality types it includes.  Examples are just examples, nothing more.

     

    Reading more closely, I come to realize that your "1"s are examples, while your "2"s are comments (often very negative) of the "1s", but not examples themselves. I was expecting the "2"s to also be examples, but evidently you used a different system. 

     

    Edit: 

    A group of people which you did not include: those who think that if a person wants something in a game, they should play the game. 

     

    That group of people contains individuals (although not exclusively those individuals) that very well could pay their path to victory, if the game allowed them to, but still hae this conviction.

  • StalkerousStalkerous Member UncommonPosts: 92

    It's been said already in several fan forum sites and other places, as well as the official site. The gems will be used mostly for World transfering or as they call it Guesting with your other friends in another Game world. Items in Item shops will be only cosmetics nothing more than that, same as it was in GW so, stop hating on people and the game.

    image

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155

    Originally posted by Stalkerous

    It's been said already in several fan forum sites and other places, as well as the official site. The gems will be used mostly for World transfering or as they call it Guesting with your other friends in another Game world. Items in Item shops will be only cosmetics nothing more than that, same as it was in GW so, stop hating on people and the game.

    Except it isn't "only cosmetic" the moment you put convenience items and allow "gem for gold" trading. It is definitely not the same as it was in GW: in GW, you did not have the "gem for gold" system. The new system is good according to a certain amount of people, while others think that it went too far and then you have opinions in between.

  • ropeniceropenice Member UncommonPosts: 588

    Originally posted by Stalkerous

    It's been said already in several fan forum sites and other places, as well as the official site. The gems will be used mostly for World transfering or as they call it Guesting with your other friends in another Game world. Items in Item shops will be only cosmetics nothing more than that, same as it was in GW so, stop hating on people and the game.

    Not quite correct. Mystic boxes, boosts, character slots, etc are not cosmetic. Not that they are a big deal (but the mystic keys/box thing is annoying), just pointing out the error. They are called convenience items. Or inconvenience items to be factual, as the game is designed to make it inconvenient if you want these things. It's not hating to talk about not liking the CS in a thread dedicated to it.

  • TerrorizorTerrorizor Member Posts: 326

    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

    Originally posted by Terrorizor


    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


    Originally posted by Terrorizor


    Originally posted by Betakodo


    Originally posted by Terrorizor

    So what type of people object to cash shops in B2P games?

     


    • People that have more time then money (example: unemployed welfare recipients that prefer to game instead of contributing to society)

    1. These people don't like cash shops because they can't participate, and don't feel that it's right for others to enjoy benefits that they are not allowed.

    2. Cash shops should always allow the same rewards to be offered via time effort instead of cash so that these people can use their excess time to reap the same rewards as those people who choose to pay.

    • People that feel they need to combat a moral betrayal of the developers by trying to actually turn a profit.

    1. These people feel that everything should be free. They have a tendency to be completely self serving and shouldn't play the game at all.

    2. They should make their own game and play it by themselves.

    • People that feel they are going to lose out on some advantage by not buying, making it impossible for them to show off their leet skillz and uberness to the rest of the gaming community. (Elitists, ubergeeks, etc)

    1. These people hold their own personal merit by how well they are recognized in a virtual (pretend) world.

    2. They should probably go outside and do something real. Maybe actually meet a friend in real life or do something that actually deserves merit.

    • People that just want to complain, and will nitpick at anything just because they can. (Example: Trolls, Haters, Jealous Fanboi's, generally unhappy people)

    1. These people just cause grief because they are compensating for the problems in their real life. They hate because their environment and the people around them is cruel. Neglect, abuse and betrayal are all contributing factors to a hateful personality.

    2. These people should be pitied.

     


    So have I missed anyone? 


     


    Please note that the examples issued are by no means the only manner of people that may fit into a specific group, and none of the examples are intended on creating a stereotype. They are just simply one possible example.

    Uhhh I can't help but think you are biased and support the cash shop as you only listed negative player stereotypes. Besides, I think this is the first B2P only game that actually had a cash shop.

    So yeah, you missed the people who know that so far, only F2P games have cash shops and people who expect their $60 purchase to have everything in them.

    Actually, the disgusting shame goes to WoW and The secret world for having B2P + subs + Cash shop. When WoW did that I said I would never play that game again. Not playing the secret world because of that also, but not the only reason.

    Actually, GW had a cash shop as early as the factions campaign. So your first point is invalid.

    The people that you feel I missed are covered under the second group.

    I don't much care about WoW and TSW as I don't plan on ever playing either. Thanks for commenting.

    A problem with your list, is that several of what you call "examples" are not examples, but they are derogatory attacks against the people of the groups. 

    Derogatory or not, those types of people do exist, and are justifiable parts of said groups. As I stated however, those particular examples are not all of the contributing personality types of any group, and listing them is not intending on creating a stereotype.  I apologize for not having the time and inclination to try and list every possible personality scenario into each group, as the group itself describes what qualifies for personality types it includes.  Examples are just examples, nothing more.

     

    Reading more closely, I come to realize that your "1"s are examples, while your "2"s are comments (often very negative) of the "1s", but not examples themselves. I was expecting the "2"s to also be examples, but evidently you used a different system. 

     

    Edit: 

    A group of people which you did not include: those who think that if a person wants something in a game, they should play the game. 

     

    That group of people contains individuals (although not exclusively those individuals) that very well could pay their path to victory, if the game allowed them to, but still hae this conviction.

    unfortunately, I don't like the setup for bulleting, but I just tried to make the best of it that I could.

    The "1" was a description of reasoning for their position.  The "2" was a potential solution, to resolve their complaint.

    The group which you feel I forgot, is covered under the first group, and my solution for the first group was that everything available in the cash shop should also be available through time investment within the game.

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155

    Originally posted by Terrorizor

    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


    Originally posted by Terrorizor


    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


    Originally posted by Terrorizor


    Originally posted by Betakodo


    Originally posted by Terrorizor

    So what type of people object to cash shops in B2P games?

     


    • People that have more time then money (example: unemployed welfare recipients that prefer to game instead of contributing to society)

    1. These people don't like cash shops because they can't participate, and don't feel that it's right for others to enjoy benefits that they are not allowed.

    2. Cash shops should always allow the same rewards to be offered via time effort instead of cash so that these people can use their excess time to reap the same rewards as those people who choose to pay.

    • People that feel they need to combat a moral betrayal of the developers by trying to actually turn a profit.

    1. These people feel that everything should be free. They have a tendency to be completely self serving and shouldn't play the game at all.

    2. They should make their own game and play it by themselves.

    • People that feel they are going to lose out on some advantage by not buying, making it impossible for them to show off their leet skillz and uberness to the rest of the gaming community. (Elitists, ubergeeks, etc)

    1. These people hold their own personal merit by how well they are recognized in a virtual (pretend) world.

    2. They should probably go outside and do something real. Maybe actually meet a friend in real life or do something that actually deserves merit.

    • People that just want to complain, and will nitpick at anything just because they can. (Example: Trolls, Haters, Jealous Fanboi's, generally unhappy people)

    1. These people just cause grief because they are compensating for the problems in their real life. They hate because their environment and the people around them is cruel. Neglect, abuse and betrayal are all contributing factors to a hateful personality.

    2. These people should be pitied.

     


    So have I missed anyone? 


     


    Please note that the examples issued are by no means the only manner of people that may fit into a specific group, and none of the examples are intended on creating a stereotype. They are just simply one possible example.

    Uhhh I can't help but think you are biased and support the cash shop as you only listed negative player stereotypes. Besides, I think this is the first B2P only game that actually had a cash shop.

    So yeah, you missed the people who know that so far, only F2P games have cash shops and people who expect their $60 purchase to have everything in them.

    Actually, the disgusting shame goes to WoW and The secret world for having B2P + subs + Cash shop. When WoW did that I said I would never play that game again. Not playing the secret world because of that also, but not the only reason.

    Actually, GW had a cash shop as early as the factions campaign. So your first point is invalid.

    The people that you feel I missed are covered under the second group.

    I don't much care about WoW and TSW as I don't plan on ever playing either. Thanks for commenting.

    A problem with your list, is that several of what you call "examples" are not examples, but they are derogatory attacks against the people of the groups. 

    Derogatory or not, those types of people do exist, and are justifiable parts of said groups. As I stated however, those particular examples are not all of the contributing personality types of any group, and listing them is not intending on creating a stereotype.  I apologize for not having the time and inclination to try and list every possible personality scenario into each group, as the group itself describes what qualifies for personality types it includes.  Examples are just examples, nothing more.

     

    Reading more closely, I come to realize that your "1"s are examples, while your "2"s are comments (often very negative) of the "1s", but not examples themselves. I was expecting the "2"s to also be examples, but evidently you used a different system. 

     

    Edit: 

    A group of people which you did not include: those who think that if a person wants something in a game, they should play the game. 

     

    That group of people contains individuals (although not exclusively those individuals) that very well could pay their path to victory, if the game allowed them to, but still hae this conviction.

    unfortunately, I don't like the setup for bulleting, but I just tried to make the best of it that I could.

    The "1" was a description of reasoning for their position.  The "2" was a potential solution, to resolve their complaint.

    The group which you feel I forgot, is covered under the first group, and my solution for the first group was that everything available in the cash shop should also be available through time investment within the game.

     

    While they share some people, there is a significant difference. there are people who have more money than time and still think that " if a person wants something in a game, they should play the game". Those particular people don't seem to be included in any of your groups. 

  • CetraCetra Member UncommonPosts: 359

    i love the cash shop. And im willing to spend alot. 

    If anyone dont like it, TOO BAD. You are just another poor kid who cant afford a few Mac Donalds meals per month on a mmorpg game .

    all the debate and arguements by cashshop haters. The sad true is you are just poor. Who cannot afford monthy payment on a mmorpg.

  • heartlessheartless Member UncommonPosts: 4,993

    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

    You are the one that argued that the competitions that should matter are those that are sanctioned. You furthermore argued that PVP competition is always sanctioned by the mere existence of PVP since it is inheretely competitive. By the same argumentation, the buying/selling competitions are competitions that should matter. 

     

    I think the whole viewpoint is odd and that just because something is inheretely competitive, it shouldn't automatically mean that it is a competition that should matter. I think that developers themselves and the players decide which competitions matter. Since so many people care about PvP competitions, the developers ought to take consideration to it if they have PVP in their game. 

     

    Using my train of thoughts, in a game where only 1% of the population cares about the buying/selling competitions, the developers have good reason to not put much thought into those competitions, even though the buying/selling through a market/auction is inheretely competitive.

     

    I have no idea how large or small % of the potential players had competitions, which they personally found relevant, affected by GW2's item mall system, but they do indeed have the right to feel that the item mall caused unnecessary negative effects. 

     

    My point, again, is that the developers should take into consideration only the things that are either part of the design document or things that a large chunk of the playerbase cares about. Only a small percentage of the population cares about stuff like server firsts and being the richest. The rest just want to have fun.

    image

  • TerrorizorTerrorizor Member Posts: 326

    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

    Originally posted by Terrorizor


    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


    Originally posted by Terrorizor


    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


    Originally posted by Terrorizor


    Originally posted by Betakodo


    Originally posted by Terrorizor

    So what type of people object to cash shops in B2P games?

     


    • People that have more time then money (example: unemployed welfare recipients that prefer to game instead of contributing to society)

    1. These people don't like cash shops because they can't participate, and don't feel that it's right for others to enjoy benefits that they are not allowed.

    2. Cash shops should always allow the same rewards to be offered via time effort instead of cash so that these people can use their excess time to reap the same rewards as those people who choose to pay.

    • People that feel they need to combat a moral betrayal of the developers by trying to actually turn a profit.

    1. These people feel that everything should be free. They have a tendency to be completely self serving and shouldn't play the game at all.

    2. They should make their own game and play it by themselves.

    • People that feel they are going to lose out on some advantage by not buying, making it impossible for them to show off their leet skillz and uberness to the rest of the gaming community. (Elitists, ubergeeks, etc)

    1. These people hold their own personal merit by how well they are recognized in a virtual (pretend) world.

    2. They should probably go outside and do something real. Maybe actually meet a friend in real life or do something that actually deserves merit.

    • People that just want to complain, and will nitpick at anything just because they can. (Example: Trolls, Haters, Jealous Fanboi's, generally unhappy people)

    1. These people just cause grief because they are compensating for the problems in their real life. They hate because their environment and the people around them is cruel. Neglect, abuse and betrayal are all contributing factors to a hateful personality.

    2. These people should be pitied.

     


    So have I missed anyone? 


     


    Please note that the examples issued are by no means the only manner of people that may fit into a specific group, and none of the examples are intended on creating a stereotype. They are just simply one possible example.

    Uhhh I can't help but think you are biased and support the cash shop as you only listed negative player stereotypes. Besides, I think this is the first B2P only game that actually had a cash shop.

    So yeah, you missed the people who know that so far, only F2P games have cash shops and people who expect their $60 purchase to have everything in them.

    Actually, the disgusting shame goes to WoW and The secret world for having B2P + subs + Cash shop. When WoW did that I said I would never play that game again. Not playing the secret world because of that also, but not the only reason.

    Actually, GW had a cash shop as early as the factions campaign. So your first point is invalid.

    The people that you feel I missed are covered under the second group.

    I don't much care about WoW and TSW as I don't plan on ever playing either. Thanks for commenting.

    A problem with your list, is that several of what you call "examples" are not examples, but they are derogatory attacks against the people of the groups. 

    Derogatory or not, those types of people do exist, and are justifiable parts of said groups. As I stated however, those particular examples are not all of the contributing personality types of any group, and listing them is not intending on creating a stereotype.  I apologize for not having the time and inclination to try and list every possible personality scenario into each group, as the group itself describes what qualifies for personality types it includes.  Examples are just examples, nothing more.

     

    Reading more closely, I come to realize that your "1"s are examples, while your "2"s are comments (often very negative) of the "1s", but not examples themselves. I was expecting the "2"s to also be examples, but evidently you used a different system. 

     

    Edit: 

    A group of people which you did not include: those who think that if a person wants something in a game, they should play the game. 

     

    That group of people contains individuals (although not exclusively those individuals) that very well could pay their path to victory, if the game allowed them to, but still hae this conviction.

    unfortunately, I don't like the setup for bulleting, but I just tried to make the best of it that I could.

    The "1" was a description of reasoning for their position.  The "2" was a potential solution, to resolve their complaint.

    The group which you feel I forgot, is covered under the first group, and my solution for the first group was that everything available in the cash shop should also be available through time investment within the game.

     

    While they share some people, there is a significant difference. there are people who have more money than time and still think that " if a person wants something in a game, they should play the game". Those particular people don't seem to be included in any of your groups. 

    OK. I think we need to clarify this.  Are you saying that there should be a seperate group of people that feel that because they choose to play the game to earn the rewards, nobody else should have the right to pay for rewards instead of earning them through time effort?

  • PurutzilPurutzil Member UncommonPosts: 3,048

    Am I against them having some type of cash shop at all being B2P? No

    Am I against them having the gem system they have in place now rather then a cosmetic cash shop? Yes, Yes, yes.

     

    Unless they change the way their gems work, I'm just not able to support their system. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that  its not released... but currently the way its announced... nope... 

  • DanitaKusorDanitaKusor Member UncommonPosts: 556

    Originally posted by Stalkerous

    It's been said already in several fan forum sites and other places, as well as the official site. The gems will be used mostly for World transfering or as they call it Guesting with your other friends in another Game world. Items in Item shops will be only cosmetics nothing more than that, same as it was in GW so, stop hating on people and the game.

    You might be confusing two different things there.

    Transferring home worlds (i.e. changing your server) is what costs 1,800 gems.  Your home world is the server you are playing on for the PvP part of the game (esp WvW).

    Guesting means you can play the PvE part of the game with friends on another server while your home world remains as is. This won't cost gems.

    I can see this is going to be a big seller for PvP players who all want to be on what they consider to be the top server for PvP.

    The Enlightened take things Lightly

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155

    Originally posted by Terrorizor

    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


    Originally posted by Terrorizor


    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


    (quotes)

    unfortunately, I don't like the setup for bulleting, but I just tried to make the best of it that I could.

    The "1" was a description of reasoning for their position.  The "2" was a potential solution, to resolve their complaint.

    The group which you feel I forgot, is covered under the first group, and my solution for the first group was that everything available in the cash shop should also be available through time investment within the game.

     

    While they share some people, there is a significant difference. there are people who have more money than time and still think that " if a person wants something in a game, they should play the game". Those particular people don't seem to be included in any of your groups. 

    OK. I think we need to clarify this.  Are you saying that there should be a seperate group of people that feel that because they choose to play the game to earn the rewards, nobody else should have the right to pay for rewards instead of earning them through time effort?

    It doesn't matter what they actually choose, what matters is what they think. Furthermore, while "If a person wants something in a game, they should play the game" excludes paying real money for rewards inside the game, it does not necessarely mean that the rewards should be earned through time effort. Being very intelligent or having another set of skills can be rewarded inside a game without actually requiring any significant time effort. 

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155

    Originally posted by heartless

    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour



    You are the one that argued that the competitions that should matter are those that are sanctioned. You furthermore argued that PVP competition is always sanctioned by the mere existence of PVP since it is inheretely competitive. By the same argumentation, the buying/selling competitions are competitions that should matter. 

     

    I think the whole viewpoint is odd and that just because something is inheretely competitive, it shouldn't automatically mean that it is a competition that should matter. I think that developers themselves and the players decide which competitions matter. Since so many people care about PvP competitions, the developers ought to take consideration to it if they have PVP in their game. 

     

    Using my train of thoughts, in a game where only 1% of the population cares about the buying/selling competitions, the developers have good reason to not put much thought into those competitions, even though the buying/selling through a market/auction is inheretely competitive.

     

    I have no idea how large or small % of the potential players had competitions, which they personally found relevant, affected by GW2's item mall system, but they do indeed have the right to feel that the item mall caused unnecessary negative effects. 

     

    My point, again, is that the developers should take into consideration only the things that are either part of the design document or things that a large chunk of the playerbase cares about. Only a small percentage of the population cares about stuff like server firsts and being the richest. The rest just want to have fun.

    The item mall affected many different smaller competitions, so I do wonder if the group of people that care about any of those smaller competions which were affected, is so small in %.

This discussion has been closed.