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This beta weekend, riot against the gems and cash shop

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  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155

    Originally posted by heartless

    Originally posted by colddog04


    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by grimfall


    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


    (quotes)

    Again, if the competition is not actually built into the game, we should not expect the developers to care about it. It's a simple as that.

    PvP is not a very good example anyway. The very nature of PvP makes it a competition. You're competing against another player because you're both trying to kill each other's character. So it doesn't matter if the develop adds ladders or rankings, as PvP is competitive because it's you vs the other guy.

    If the argumentation is valid, then every time an item is going to be put up on auction/market, it automatically creates a competition. The sellers are in competition with each other, while the buyers are also in competition with each other. The buyers can buy advantage by trading their gems for ingame currency.

     

    So thank you for proving that GW2's gem-for-gold is automatically Pay-to-win in a competition sanctioned by Arenanet themselves.

     

    Thank you.

    Who wins? The guy that pays real money for items or the guy that pays gold for items?

     

    Is it a tie?

    I win because I'm going to enjoy the game instead of worrying sick about what other players are doing with their free time and expendable income.

    The buyer who wins the sanctioned competition, is the buyer who gets the item. The seller can very well set the price of a rare item such that only the one who spends real life money to get gold, would  realistically be able to get enough gold to buy the item. If the buyer spent gems to get enough gold to buy the item and he gets the item, regardless of how other potential buyers  obtained their gold, that particular buyer paid to win that competition.

  • SteamRangerSteamRanger Member UncommonPosts: 920

    I'm one of those "Explorer" types and couldn't care less about competition and those whose fragile epeen is threatened by ArenaNet's cash shop. That said, I'm ready to fling all sorts of money at A'Net if this game is anywhere near what I hope it is.

    "Soloists and those who prefer small groups should never have to feel like they''re the ones getting the proverbial table scraps, as it were." - Scott Hartsman, Senior Producer, Everquest II
    "People love groups. Its a fallacy that people want to play solo all the time." - Scott Hartsman, Executive Producer, Rift

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155

    Originally posted by nolic1

     

    So thank you for proving that GW2's gem-for-gold is automatically Pay-to-win in a competition sanctioned by Arenanet themselves.

     

    Thank you.

    Well all this other stuff yo uposted is not needed. Ok You'll come here and grip about this but every mmo out there has something simular its called an aution house that players use to raise the prices of ingame drops to prices only people who mostly buy gold can get unless you spend 90+ hrs a week to grind ingame money for so they are taking this out buy putting in a means to buy pass the gold sellers and farmers and you are mad  about this why not go grip at blizz and tell them to put a cap on how much an item can be sold for in WoW.

    Or how about you go grip at all the other mmo's out there that have an AH and have prices on them that are way stupied like 100million gold for an item that has a chance to drop in game not that it never does but it does drop alot and they have it selling for some stupied ammount of money. And yes I dont do this cause in most mmo's ingame money and items become so easy to get after a while theres no need to buy anything when you can go get it your self.

    Ok now onto the RL money to ingame money well I could do this in any game before had through gold sellers and maybe I get banned maybe not and no I never did this but could of like many of people I knew who did and this is mostly in P2P games I seen this happen. I did see it happen in a few F2P games but in WoW and EQ1 I had friends who did this every day some time 2 or 3 times a day. Yeah I turned them in but nothing ever happened not once. So to me this just makes it so Gold sellers really have no way to make this stuf happen it will be the players and I can tell you this much its always the players who make Goldsellers there money cause there the ones buying it not the companys.

    If the companies are ignoring the illegal RMT-sellers/buyers, then yes I would think that the companies are doing wrong by ignoring them.

  • heartlessheartless Member UncommonPosts: 4,993

    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by colddog04


    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by grimfall


    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


    (quotes)

    Again, if the competition is not actually built into the game, we should not expect the developers to care about it. It's a simple as that.

    PvP is not a very good example anyway. The very nature of PvP makes it a competition. You're competing against another player because you're both trying to kill each other's character. So it doesn't matter if the develop adds ladders or rankings, as PvP is competitive because it's you vs the other guy.

    If the argumentation is valid, then every time an item is going to be put up on auction/market, it automatically creates a competition. The sellers are in competition with each other, while the buyers are also in competition with each other. The buyers can buy advantage by trading their gems for ingame currency.

     

    So thank you for proving that GW2's gem-for-gold is automatically Pay-to-win in a competition sanctioned by Arenanet themselves.

     

    Thank you.

    Who wins? The guy that pays real money for items or the guy that pays gold for items?

     

    Is it a tie?

    I win because I'm going to enjoy the game instead of worrying sick about what other players are doing with their free time and expendable income.

    The buyer who wins the sanctioned competition, is the buyer who gets the item. The seller can very well set the price of a rare item such that only the one who spends real life money to get gold, would  realistically be able to get enough gold to buy the item. If the buyer spent gems to get enough gold to buy the item and he gets the item, regardless of how other potential buyers  obtained their gold, that particular buyer paid to win that competition.

    Items don't really mean a lot in this game. They are mostly cosmetic. So the buyer wins a prettier item. Is it really a competition? Does it matter? Who cares? I already have all of the HoM item rewards which are going to have unique skins. I basically won anyway.

    As far as the whole gold for gems issue. Gems can only be traded to other players. You can't just buy gems and sell them to an NPC for gold. In order for someone to afford your gem prices, they would need to actually farm enough gold. In other words, gems do not automatically make you rich.

    image

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155

    Originally posted by rykim86

    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


    Originally posted by rykim86


    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

     

    Edit: I could have used the term "fundamental opinion" instead though, to avoid confusion. However, peoeple may think of negatively of the term "fundamental" due to terms such as "fundementalists" in connection with religion. It is though a neutral term used to describe that something is basic.

    I don't feel like getting all technical with you, because you're obviously doding my question still.

    Why is it WRONG to use or have a cash shop that isn't against you personally?  And we're talking about one that doesn't have legendary items and the like.

    I wouldn't use the word "WRONG", but I can give you several reasons why people may dislike the item mall:

     

    *They can be disliked if they interfer with competitions they find relevant.

    *They can be disliked if it breaks their immersion. Example: knowing that instead of spending X hours "farming" to get a certain item, they could just spend Y hours of real work to obtain it; where Y << X.

    Another example: Seeing ingame-advertisements for the item mall, both direct and indirect ones. An indirect one may be a treasure box for which the key is hard to obtain inside the game, but easy through the item-mall.

    *They may not like how game companies have created more and more methods to squeeze money out of their costumers. This can also be used against Day 1-DLCs.

     

     

    Competitions that I previously said are personal and egotistical epeen competitions.  

    Farming is an immersion breaker onto itself.  If I had the choice of spending several hours farming something, or spending a few bucks, honestly wondering, which do you think most people would for?

    And how does someone else buying a key effect you personally?  All the gathering nodes and the like, chests most likely as well (watch the video about hidden mazes and puzzles) it won't matter if someone gets to it first because it'll always be there for everyoone else.

    And that's that then.  Like I've been saying, there is an obvious, and large, market of people willing to pay money for things like DLC or XP boosts and the like.  ArenaNet is capitalizing on it, while giving people who are against such things the OPTION to obtain themselves.

    Basically it's majority wins.  No MMO will ever cater to all different kinds of players.  It's only sensible they cater to the majority.  

    Farming is not immersion breaking for everyone. It makes sense that your character in a world, would have to work to get enough resources to buy something someone else in that world is selling.

     

    It doesn't have to affect me personally in order for it to affect other personally. Don't mix up my personal opinions with opinions other people can have. It affects a person personally, the moment their personal immersion is being attacked.

     

    Furthermore, something does not have to affect a person personally in order for that person to think that there is reason to protest/dislike it. They can dislike something on the basis that it affects a system/collective negatively.

  • BetakodoBetakodo Member UncommonPosts: 333

    Originally posted by Maephisto

    Betakodo is a known detractor of this sub forum......

    Why the fuck are we even validating this with multiple pages of responses. 

     

    How so? RMT gems don't belong in online game, aka cheating. Didn't say the game was bad. Just against money grabs. Are you for or against getting rid of F2P games and replacing them with $60 dollar games with cash shops instead?

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155

    Originally posted by heartless

    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by colddog04


    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by grimfall


    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


    (quotes)

    Again, if the competition is not actually built into the game, we should not expect the developers to care about it. It's a simple as that.

    PvP is not a very good example anyway. The very nature of PvP makes it a competition. You're competing against another player because you're both trying to kill each other's character. So it doesn't matter if the develop adds ladders or rankings, as PvP is competitive because it's you vs the other guy.

    If the argumentation is valid, then every time an item is going to be put up on auction/market, it automatically creates a competition. The sellers are in competition with each other, while the buyers are also in competition with each other. The buyers can buy advantage by trading their gems for ingame currency.

     

    So thank you for proving that GW2's gem-for-gold is automatically Pay-to-win in a competition sanctioned by Arenanet themselves.

     

    Thank you.

    Who wins? The guy that pays real money for items or the guy that pays gold for items?

     

    Is it a tie?

    I win because I'm going to enjoy the game instead of worrying sick about what other players are doing with their free time and expendable income.

    The buyer who wins the sanctioned competition, is the buyer who gets the item. The seller can very well set the price of a rare item such that only the one who spends real life money to get gold, would  realistically be able to get enough gold to buy the item. If the buyer spent gems to get enough gold to buy the item and he gets the item, regardless of how other potential buyers  obtained their gold, that particular buyer paid to win that competition.

    Items don't really mean a lot in this game. They are mostly cosmetic. So the buyer wins a prettier item. Is it really a competition? Does it matter? Who cares? I already have all of the HoM item rewards which are going to have unique skins. I basically won anyway.

    As far as the whole gold for gems issue. Gems can only be traded to other players. You can't just buy gems and sell them to an NPC for gold. In order for someone to afford your gem prices, they would need to actually farm enough gold. In other words, gems do not automatically make you rich.

    It is still a sactioned competition; whether or not people actually care about that competition, is different question entirely.

    "Rich" is a relative term and you can become rich in gold by trading enough gems for gold. 

  • ropeniceropenice Member UncommonPosts: 588

    Originally posted by rykim86

    LOL at people wanting to revolt because of the cash shop.

    Stop being cheap.

    This is funny. All these people are saying that they will haapily pay 10-15 a month to support Anet by buying fluff items from CS, but are so against paying 10-15 a month for a sub. Doesn't make sense. I'd rather have all the fluff in the game to begin with, pay they sub and not be nickle and dimed with every little thing they can think of to inconvenience the player with to get them into the CS. Give me the full 10 character slaots and pack space, have boosts drop as loot, get rid of the mystic boxes gambling for loot where the keays will never drop as often (but of course are offered in CS), leave out the gem for gold crap, etc. If the game is good I'll happily pay the 10-15 month to support game and let Anet get the profits it deserves for making a great product. I, personally, don't want to visit a store to get the little things that should part of the game already. Make vanity items part of the crafting/economy, at least, and foster the community, if you want to make them special. (Just an idea). I know everyone has their own view on these things, but this is mine. Still going to buy if beta confirms it is as good as it seems, but just don't want to be pushed into CS by game play/mechanics put in to inconvenience me.

  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155

    Originally posted by nolic1

    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


    Originally posted by rykim86


    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

     

    Edit: I could have used the term "fundamental opinion" instead though, to avoid confusion. However, peoeple may think of negatively of the term "fundamental" due to terms such as "fundementalists" in connection with religion. It is though a neutral term used to describe that something is basic.

    I don't feel like getting all technical with you, because you're obviously doding my question still.

    Why is it WRONG to use or have a cash shop that isn't against you personally?  And we're talking about one that doesn't have legendary items and the like.

    I wouldn't use the word "WRONG", but I can give you several reasons why people may dislike the item mall:

     

    *They can be disliked if they interfer with competitions they find relevant.

    *They can be disliked if it breaks their immersion. Example: knowing that instead of spending X hours "farming" to get a certain item, they could just spend Y hours of real work to obtain it; where Y << X.

    Another example: Seeing ingame-advertisements for the item mall, both direct and indirect ones. An indirect one may be a treasure box for which the key is hard to obtain inside the game, but easy through the item-mall.

    *They may not like how game companies have created more and more methods to squeeze money out of their costumers. This can also be used against Day 1-DLCs.

     

     

    Again a peron used to beable to pay someone else to lvl there toons for them for a fee and even get them all there extra crap to. These where called goldsellers/PWRlvler companys owe yeah there still doing it in every game out there and alot are in P2P games to go stand it any major traffic area and you will  see it and yes 100's of 10000's of players use this to bypass all the extra crap.

    Yeah, but they are doing so illegally. Just because people can do something illegally, it doesn't mean that we should be able to do the same legally. Otherwise, companies should be forced to offer legal bots and other "features" as well.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Originally posted by colddog04

    I think what you are saying is that you believe cash shops tend to change based on consumer choices within the cash shop.

     

    I have no clue what that has to do with cash shops are "either okay for everyone to implement or not okay for everyone to implement."  It looks like you have actually changed your arguemnt completely.

     

    I do agree with your new idea though. It's a balancing act they'll have to walk.

     

    What can we offer and how much can we charge that will give us the most profit possible? How do we keep as many consumers in the system as possible? I don't know where this point is, but it is dependant on the playerbase like you say.

    No I'm not changing my argument, only expounding on it, as obiviously it needed clarification (judging by responses to it). It was only one sentence.

    In my comment I was more or less saying that you either support all companies having cash-shops or none at all. That doesn't mean you can't have issues with certain things they sell, or how they're implemented. It just means, we shouldn't be so selective about who's in the right or in the wrong when it comes to earning more revenue for their product/services.

     

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • HonnerHonner Member Posts: 504

    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by colddog04


    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by grimfall


    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

    (quotes)

    Again, if the competition is not actually built into the game, we should not expect the developers to care about it. It's a simple as that.

    PvP is not a very good example anyway. The very nature of PvP makes it a competition. You're competing against another player because you're both trying to kill each other's character. So it doesn't matter if the develop adds ladders or rankings, as PvP is competitive because it's you vs the other guy.

    If the argumentation is valid, then every time an item is going to be put up on auction/market, it automatically creates a competition. The sellers are in competition with each other, while the buyers are also in competition with each other. The buyers can buy advantage by trading their gems for ingame currency.

     

    So thank you for proving that GW2's gem-for-gold is automatically Pay-to-win in a competition sanctioned by Arenanet themselves.

     

    Thank you.

    Who wins? The guy that pays real money for items or the guy that pays gold for items?

     

    Is it a tie?

    I win because I'm going to enjoy the game instead of worrying sick about what other players are doing with their free time and expendable income.

    The buyer who wins the sanctioned competition, is the buyer who gets the item. The seller can very well set the price of a rare item such that only the one who spends real life money to get gold, would  realistically be able to get enough gold to buy the item. If the buyer spent gems to get enough gold to buy the item and he gets the item, regardless of how other potential buyers  obtained their gold, that particular buyer paid to win that competition.

    Items don't really mean a lot in this game. They are mostly cosmetic. So the buyer wins a prettier item. Is it really a competition? Does it matter? Who cares? I already have all of the HoM item rewards which are going to have unique skins. I basically won anyway.

    As far as the whole gold for gems issue. Gems can only be traded to other players. You can't just buy gems and sell them to an NPC for gold. In order for someone to afford your gem prices, they would need to actually farm enough gold. In other words, gems do not automatically make you rich.

    It is still a sactioned competition; whether or not people actually care about that competition, is different question entirely.

    "Rich" is a relative term and you can become rich in gold by trading enough gems for gold. 

    First you need someone who sell you the gold and what happen here? the existing gold changes hands?

  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Member UncommonPosts: 2,341

    lol ;x forum activists.

    Oh, gamers these days.

    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Originally posted by Betakodo

    How so? RMT gems don't belong in online game, aka cheating. Didn't say the game was bad. Just against money grabs. Are you for or against getting rid of F2P games and replacing them with $60 dollar games with cash shops instead?

    You're entitled to your opinion, but so is anyone else. What's wrong with preferring something with the quality GW2 seems to have, while also wanting to support them through extra means?

    And yes by the look of it, I'd have no problem if all F2P's were replaced by something like GW2 box-fee/cash-shop or not.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155

    Originally posted by Honner

    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


    Originally posted by heartless


    (quotes)

    It is still a sactioned competition; whether or not people actually care about that competition, is different question entirely.

    "Rich" is a relative term and you can become rich in gold by trading enough gems for gold. 

    First you need someone who sell you the gold and what happen here? the existing gold changes hands?

    Being "rich" is about belonging to the % of people with the highest wealth. If we measure wealth in gold, then when person A trades their gems for the gold of person B, then it is likely that person A advanced his position in the gold-wealth list, while person B decreased his position in the gold-wealth list. 

  • gatherisgatheris Member UncommonPosts: 1,016

    prepurchase seems to be the means to participate in beta

    that means there will be no purchase of this game at all - period

    thanks but no thanks

    image

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Originally posted by gatheris

    prepurchase seems to be the means to participate in beta

    that means there will be no purchase of this game at all - period

    thanks but no thanks

    Considering there's no release date, and they have beta sign-ups, it's far too early to say this is the case.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155

    Originally posted by Distopia

    Originally posted by Betakodo



    How so? RMT gems don't belong in online game, aka cheating. Didn't say the game was bad. Just against money grabs. Are you for or against getting rid of F2P games and replacing them with $60 dollar games with cash shops instead?

    You're entitled to your opinion, but so is anyone else. What's wrong with preferring something with the quality GW2 seems to have, while also wanting to support them through extra means?

    And yes by the look of it, I'd have no problem if all F2P's were replaced by something like GW2 box-fee/cash-shop or not.

    There are other ways to show extra support for GW2 besides spending in their item mall.

  • BetakodoBetakodo Member UncommonPosts: 333

    Originally posted by Distopia

    You're entitled to your opinion, but so is anyone else. What's wrong with preferring something with the quality GW2 seems to have, while also wanting to support them through extra means?

    I would need to ask what is wrong with RMT and gold buying in other games and why it is fine in Guild Wars 2 all of a sudden? The Guild Wars series has been about no subscriptions and they pre-date the cash shop era. The cash shop came in after the game died, when there was scant a population left and Arenanet's community manager said they were to support a server with no income. Apparently that was either a lie, or they got greedy.

    Either way, the current norm of the MMO industry is $0 game with cash shop. Not $60 game with cash shop. Guild Wars 2 will make more money by the time they launch than any successful F2p game will have. That is because it costs $0 to play a F2P game with a cash shop, but $60 to play Guild Wars 2 which will have a cash shop.

    That, my friends is the evil of encroachment. Much like on disc DLC on console games.

    Forgot to add: Rise up in the towns! Shout for the removal of the gems and cash shop! Get your hand out of my wallet Arenanet!

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183

    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

    Originally posted by Distopia

    You're entitled to your opinion, but so is anyone else. What's wrong with preferring something with the quality GW2 seems to have, while also wanting to support them through extra means?

    And yes by the look of it, I'd have no problem if all F2P's were replaced by something like GW2 box-fee/cash-shop or not.

    There are other ways to show extra support for GW2 besides spending in their item mall.

    That may be the case, but that wasn't my question :P.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • EvereghaloEvereghalo Member Posts: 51

    Originally posted by Betakodo

    We keep hearing about how feedback from the beta weekend will determine what's put in the game and release, so on the feedback forms this weekend, be sure to put negative feedback in every form regarding gems and the cash shop. Of course, go ahead and look at all the crap that gold can buy you. The most expensive I believe will be the commander position for WvW and PvE along with prestiege.

    Down with legalized cheating and unfairness! Down with cash shop in a $60 game!

    Remember, gold buying is illegal in other online games for a reason. Gamers, rise up like we did in Operation Rainfall! Except this time against companies trying to squeeze more cash out of us! Enough with on the disc DLC and cash shops in non F2P games. It's time we as gamers take a stand! Arenanet needs to fight the gold farmers instead of becoming the gold farmers themselves to profit. They haven't fought the farmers yet and yet they implement legalized RMT? Backwards.

    Kudos to the heroes who reported Capcom for having on disc DLC to the better business bureau. You can be a hero too! Complain about gems and the cash shop in every feedback form you get, and on the official beta forums.

    You are stupid, and I will be doing the exact opposite of this because of this post.

    The fairness you speak of does not exist, that advantage is convience.  This game revolves around combat, combat is not affected and you can spend gold on everything in that shop. 

     

    image
  • ZylaxxZylaxx Member Posts: 2,574

    Originally posted by Betakodo

    We keep hearing about how feedback from the beta weekend will determine what's put in the game and release, so on the feedback forms this weekend, be sure to put negative feedback in every form regarding gems and the cash shop. Of course, go ahead and look at all the crap that gold can buy you. The most expensive I believe will be the commander position for WvW and PvE along with prestiege.

    Down with legalized cheating and unfairness! Down with cash shop in a $60 game!

    Remember, gold buying is illegal in other online games for a reason. Gamers, rise up like we did in Operation Rainfall! Except this time against companies trying to squeeze more cash out of us! Enough with on the disc DLC and cash shops in non F2P games. It's time we as gamers take a stand! Arenanet needs to fight the gold farmers instead of becoming the gold farmers themselves to profit. They haven't fought the farmers yet and yet they implement legalized RMT? Backwards.

    Kudos to the heroes who reported Capcom for having on disc DLC to the better business bureau. You can be a hero too! Complain about gems and the cash shop in every feedback form you get, and on the official beta forums.

    I will be submitting feedback on how much I love the cash shops just to counteract your sillyness. 

     

    I support the cash shop whole heartedly and will continue to do so far into the future.

    Everything you need to know about Elder Scrolls Online

    Playing: GW2
    Waiting on: TESO
    Next Flop: Planetside 2
    Best MMO of all time: Asheron's Call - The first company to recreate AC will be the next greatest MMO.

    image

  • heartlessheartless Member UncommonPosts: 4,993

    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by colddog04


    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by grimfall


    Originally posted by heartless


    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

    (quotes)

    Again, if the competition is not actually built into the game, we should not expect the developers to care about it. It's a simple as that.

    PvP is not a very good example anyway. The very nature of PvP makes it a competition. You're competing against another player because you're both trying to kill each other's character. So it doesn't matter if the develop adds ladders or rankings, as PvP is competitive because it's you vs the other guy.

    If the argumentation is valid, then every time an item is going to be put up on auction/market, it automatically creates a competition. The sellers are in competition with each other, while the buyers are also in competition with each other. The buyers can buy advantage by trading their gems for ingame currency.

     

    So thank you for proving that GW2's gem-for-gold is automatically Pay-to-win in a competition sanctioned by Arenanet themselves.

     

    Thank you.

    Who wins? The guy that pays real money for items or the guy that pays gold for items?

     

    Is it a tie?

    I win because I'm going to enjoy the game instead of worrying sick about what other players are doing with their free time and expendable income.

    The buyer who wins the sanctioned competition, is the buyer who gets the item. The seller can very well set the price of a rare item such that only the one who spends real life money to get gold, would  realistically be able to get enough gold to buy the item. If the buyer spent gems to get enough gold to buy the item and he gets the item, regardless of how other potential buyers  obtained their gold, that particular buyer paid to win that competition.

    Items don't really mean a lot in this game. They are mostly cosmetic. So the buyer wins a prettier item. Is it really a competition? Does it matter? Who cares? I already have all of the HoM item rewards which are going to have unique skins. I basically won anyway.

    As far as the whole gold for gems issue. Gems can only be traded to other players. You can't just buy gems and sell them to an NPC for gold. In order for someone to afford your gem prices, they would need to actually farm enough gold. In other words, gems do not automatically make you rich.

    It is still a sactioned competition; whether or not people actually care about that competition, is different question entirely.

    "Rich" is a relative term and you can become rich in gold by trading enough gems for gold. 

    If the game revolved around getting rich, it would be a problem. But it doesn't, so it's not. You're grasping at straws, my dear chap. I will say this again: ANet has designed this game in a particular way and we have to decide if we want to buy it based on whether or not their design appeals to us. The design appeals to me, it obviously doesn't appeal to you. You can attempt to rationalize anything you want but the fact is that I will still play this game because the gems for gold trade does not bother me at all.

    I'll leave you with this question though: In order for the person to get rich by trading enough gems for gold, there has to be a demand for gems but if gold is more desirable than gems, then who would trade it for gems?

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  • TwoThreeFourTwoThreeFour Member UncommonPosts: 2,155

    Originally posted by Distopia

    Originally posted by TwoThreeFour


    Originally posted by Distopia



    You're entitled to your opinion, but so is anyone else. What's wrong with preferring something with the quality GW2 seems to have, while also wanting to support them through extra means?

    And yes by the look of it, I'd have no problem if all F2P's were replaced by something like GW2 box-fee/cash-shop or not.

    There are other ways to show extra support for GW2 besides spending in their item mall.

    That may be the case, but that wasn't my question :P.

     

    Well you implied that either Cash Shop or RMT gems was okay because it is simply a way to support the company through extra means. I replied that there are other ways to show extra support for GW2. 

    There is nothing wrong to want to support GW2 through extra means, but certain methods come with perceived disadvantages for the industry as a whole or at least the players in that game. 

  • BetakodoBetakodo Member UncommonPosts: 333

    Originally posted by Evereghalo

    You are stupid, and I will be doing the exact opposite of this because of this post.

    The fairness you speak of does not exist, that advantage is convience.  This game revolves around combat, combat is not affected and you can spend gold on everything in that shop. 

     

    What are you going to write? Please, reach into my wallet more!

    You do realize, what you have in PvE is what you got in WvW! Siege weapons cost gold, so does the commander position.

  • LeodiousLeodious Member UncommonPosts: 773


    Originally posted by ropenice

    Originally posted by rykim86
    LOL at people wanting to revolt because of the cash shop.
    Stop being cheap.
    This is funny. All these people are saying that they will haapily pay 10-15 a month to support Anet by buying fluff items from CS, but are so against paying 10-15 a month for a sub. Doesn't make sense. I'd rather have all the fluff in the game to begin with, pay they sub and not be nickle and dimed with every little thing they can think of to inconvenience the player with to get them into the CS. Give me the full 10 character slaots and pack space, have boosts drop as loot, get rid of the mystic boxes gambling for loot where the keays will never drop as often (but of course are offered in CS), leave out the gem for gold crap, etc. If the game is good I'll happily pay the 10-15 month to support game and let Anet get the profits it deserves for making a great product. I, personally, don't want to visit a store to get the little things that should part of the game already. Make vanity items part of the crafting/economy, at least, and foster the community, if you want to make them special. (Just an idea). I know everyone has their own view on these things, but this is mine. Still going to buy if beta confirms it is as good as it seems, but just don't want to be pushed into CS by game play/mechanics put in to inconvenience me.


    You are ignoring the key difference. I have to pay a subscription for the privilege of playing a pay to play game. With Guild Wars, I do not. I have played Guild Wars for a long time, and I played WoW for quite some time as well. I played Guild Wars during the majority of the time I played WoW, and for quite some time after it, into the present. I have bought a great many things, including bank slots, character slots, costumes, mercenary heroes, and content packs. And I got something I liked and wanted with each purchase.

    And playing years longer, I haven't paid nearly so much to Anet as I did to Blizzard for WoW. Not even half. But I got more for my purchases, as I actually got something for each purchase.

    But more than that, and this is the key I mentioned before, I didn't *have* to buy any of it. I got it because I wanted it. None of it made my character stronger. None of it gave me any sort of competitive edge. And most importantly, I did not have to pay money for the ability to play the game. That is why many people think it is a much better system, myself included.

    "There are two great powers, and they've been fighting since time began. Every advance in human life, every scrap of knowledge and wisdom and decency we have has been torn by one side from the teeth of the other. Every little increase in human freedom has been fought over ferociously between those who want us to know more and be wiser and stronger, and those who want us to obey and be humble and submit."

    — John Parry, to his son Will; "The Subtle Knife," by Phillip Pullman

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