A principle simply means that it is something basic upon which other things are built on. It doesn't have to be ethical, otherwise all mathematical principles would be ethical, which would indeed sound weird.
The principle in this case can be "Real money should not be able to buy non-cosmetics ingame".
That's an opinion, not a principle.
Also the argument is not about "non-cosmetics" in the cash shop. It's about the cash shop itself. People just don't want it. They believe since subscription model games (most) don't have one, B2P games shouldn't either. That's ridiculous. Your principle is based on the concept of subscription based games.
A principle simply means that it is something basic upon which other things are built on. It doesn't have to be ethical, otherwise all mathematical principles would be ethical, which would indeed sound weird.
The principle in this case can be "Real money should not be able to buy non-cosmetics ingame".
That's an opinion, not a principle.
Also the argument is not about "non-cosmetics" in the cash shop. It's about the cash shop itself. People just don't want it. They believe since subscription model games (most) don't have one, B2P games shouldn't either. That's ridiculous. Your principle is based on the concept of subscription based games.
GW2 is not, so that "principle" shouldn't apply.
I'd also like to know which P2P games have absolutely no cash shops nowadays. Are there any anymore? Not amongst the top played ones I'm sure.
What other competitions? The only competition this game offers is PvP. Everything else
Because ArenaNet has designed it that way.
No they haven't. In what way have the designed the "competiviness" of the game to be based on PVP? A-Net doesn't give a rats ass if you lose every single PVP battle or win every one, just like some PTW developer doesn't care.
They're just putting things into the game that they think people will like. That's all. Now you may think that PVP is inherently competive, but there are other people who think crafting and beating PVE content is inherently competivie. That's the elephant in the room you're not seeing.
I think the game is about exploring. The first players who explore all the areas in the game, will be the best players. PVP is only in the game to kill some time before doing more exploring sessions. That's the logic you're using. It's not logical, it's just personal preference haphazardly argued like it's fact.
The whole esport aspect of structured PvP. The fact that servers get graded based on their performance in WvWvW and get matched with similar servers... But that's not my point.
My point is that ArenaNet has designed this game a certain way and it's unrealistic to expect them to change their design based on your, or my, preference.
Yes, I would agree that they indeed did design structured PvP with competition in mind. However, in other games, people still see PvP as a competition of interest even if all the developers did was to enable one person being able to drop the other person's hp to 0. Should developers ignore the PVP competition even in such games?
A principle simply means that it is something basic upon which other things are built on. It doesn't have to be ethical, otherwise all mathematical principles would be ethical, which would indeed sound weird.
The principle in this case can be "Real money should not be able to buy non-cosmetics ingame".
That's an opinion, not a principle.
Also the argument is not about "non-cosmetics" in the cash shop. It's about the cash shop itself. People just don't want it. They believe since subscription model games (most) don't have one, B2P games shouldn't either. That's ridiculous. Your principle is based on the concept of subscription based games.
GW2 is not, so that "principle" shouldn't apply.
It's kind of silly considering that almost all subscription based MMOs have cash shops as well. Yet no one has issues with that. GW2 has no subscription fee and a cash shop and all of a sudden is the freaking antichrist.
A principle simply means that it is something basic upon which other things are built on. It doesn't have to be ethical, otherwise all mathematical principles would be ethical, which would indeed sound weird.
The principle in this case can be "Real money should not be able to buy non-cosmetics ingame".
That's an opinion, not a principle.
Also the argument is not about "non-cosmetics" in the cash shop. It's about the cash shop itself. People just don't want it. They believe since subscription model games (most) don't have one, B2P games shouldn't either. That's ridiculous. Your principle is based on the concept of subscription based games.
GW2 is not, so that "principle" shouldn't apply.
Principles, unless they are based on science, are all opinions, lol.
Edit: I could have used the term "fundamental opinion" instead though, to avoid confusion. However, peoeple may think of negatively of the term "fundamental" due to terms such as "fundementalists" in connection with religion. It is though a neutral term used to describe that something is basic.
Riot all you want, it wont change a thing but it will show you are living in the past.
Oh wait, im sorry I should have just said "stick to WoW" and be done with it.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Boosters and vanity items I really couldn't care about as long as it doesn't involve unfair advantage in PVP.
The problem however is when a game asks you pay pay real money to change a characters appearance like any little details about it. I want to change my hair to match my new costume gotta spend $10. Want to change skin tone $10, want to change a face $10. That is my problem and I refuse to play a game like this no matter F2P, or Pay 2 Play like Aion I quit Aion because of these features and besides the multihacks that killed Aion along with the CashShop in a P2P game it could have gone a lot better but they had very bad development.
I would say that if you have preorder guildwars 2 Protest certain functions you do not like which you have to pay for. For example it would be nice if people who don't login on their boosters got some type of bonus for example you buy it on the first of the month don't login a entire week instead of it all just going to waste but most companies don't do this although there are some that do but it is rare to find those.
In response to Cash Shops, I support Real Money Trading, and I believe that MMORPG companies should enforce and allow in game real money trading similar to Rohan, And sony which allows you to trade and sell characters and items for Game Points bought with Real Money, or Station Cash which sony allows you to buy characters I believe and items.
Look at it this way if a person played the game for years, and wants to sell some gold they have earned while selling in game items is considered a TOS, or EULA breach, you are not selling the in game items because they belong to the developers you are selling your time you spent to farm and obtain those items the content remains property of the game company and always will. This is the way I see it and I feel that game companies should allow a in game selling function similar to Second Life, Entropia, Real Time Worlds, and other games like Runes OF Magic which have people who pay Diamonds for items in game by giefing items, so why not allow it?
At the same time there would be possibly a Cash Out option where players could cash out the money if the service offered that and at the same time it would give the company a chance to profit which charges like $0.50 - $1 on certain transactions made from player to player while that may not seem like a lot it adds up quite fast when people start using it in addition to the monthly fee or other boosters sold.
The problem with the F2P games in my opinion is the management of such MMO's are not educated and really don't know how to roll in the big bucks and we are talking about more money than Blizzard once made on WOW, that is if the game is designed properly.
What I am against is people hacking, or stealing another players account, or things like Botting, or spamming chat.
A principle simply means that it is something basic upon which other things are built on. It doesn't have to be ethical, otherwise all mathematical principles would be ethical, which would indeed sound weird.
The principle in this case can be "Real money should not be able to buy non-cosmetics ingame".
That's an opinion, not a principle.
Also the argument is not about "non-cosmetics" in the cash shop. It's about the cash shop itself. People just don't want it. They believe since subscription model games (most) don't have one, B2P games shouldn't either. That's ridiculous. Your principle is based on the concept of subscription based games.
GW2 is not, so that "principle" shouldn't apply.
It's kind of silly considering that almost all subscription based MMOs have cash shops as well. Yet no one has issues with that. GW2 has no subscription fee and a cash shop and all of a sudden is the freaking antichrist.
I know, right?
I can understand the argument if the cash shop has legendary weapons and armors and crafting materials etc... but the chances of that happening are laughable. I've played GW2 at both PAX Primes in the last couple years and yes, you can talk to any and all the ArenaNet people there. While decisions like the cash shop will ultimately fall to management and higher ups, if their employees are anything to go by, something like that won't happen.
They're gamers like us. Blatantly making the game a cash race is something they're not interested in.
A principle simply means that it is something basic upon which other things are built on. It doesn't have to be ethical, otherwise all mathematical principles would be ethical, which would indeed sound weird.
The principle in this case can be "Real money should not be able to buy non-cosmetics ingame".
That's an opinion, not a principle.
Also the argument is not about "non-cosmetics" in the cash shop. It's about the cash shop itself. People just don't want it. They believe since subscription model games (most) don't have one, B2P games shouldn't either. That's ridiculous. Your principle is based on the concept of subscription based games.
GW2 is not, so that "principle" shouldn't apply.
It's kind of silly considering that almost all subscription based MMOs have cash shops as well. Yet no one has issues with that. GW2 has no subscription fee and a cash shop and all of a sudden is the freaking antichrist.
Err? Item malls being implemented in P2P games, specially when they are more than just cosmetic, used to be a large source of complaints. It is one of the reasons why The Secret World received a lot of critique.
I play a game it is called Real Life, in Real Life I found Pay 2 Win is the way to go. Guess what I am awesome at that game, WINNING!!! So if I play GW2 (which most likely I will) I will show my vote via the best voting system ever....Cash. Money motivates, money makes things move, money gets jobs done. I employ a very large staff, I increase wages or add bonuses my people do more work and do it better. If I want GW2 to be succesful I will contribute to help fund that success.
If anyone in here can honestly say that if thier boss came in and offered them an extra two dollars an hour to be awesome and the best and your response was "Sorry in my "Real Life" I don't accept cash to win", well then I will still call you a liar. That response just would not happen.
I just want one just one motherfucking need from the cash shop, that you will need in order to enjoy the game after that's said we can riot but as of right now, we miswell go to hell win all this bullshit. I'll also give you my kidney and my heart and I mean that. Sorry for being realistic lol
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Also the argument is not about "non-cosmetics" in the cash shop. It's about the cash shop itself. People just don't want it. They believe since subscription model games (most) don't have one, B2P games shouldn't either. That's ridiculous. Your principle is based on the concept of subscription based games.
GW2 is not, so that "principle" shouldn't apply.
Principles, unless they are based on science, are all opinions, lol.
Umm no they aren't. Opinion is belief based on one's own beliefs. Principles are a code or tenant for the conduct towards those 'accepted' beliefs (more often from someone else, work, family etc.)
Edit: I could have used the term "fundamental opinion" instead though, to avoid confusion. However, peoeple may think of negatively of the term "fundamental" due to terms such as "fundementalists" in connection with religion. It is though a neutral term used to describe that something is basic.
I don't feel like getting all technical with you, because you're obviously doding my question still.
Why is it WRONG to use or have a cash shop that isn't against you personally? And we're talking about one that doesn't have legendary items and the like.
What other competitions? The only competition this game offers is PvP. Everything else
Because ArenaNet has designed it that way.
No they haven't. In what way have the designed the "competiviness" of the game to be based on PVP? A-Net doesn't give a rats ass if you lose every single PVP battle or win every one, just like some PTW developer doesn't care.
They're just putting things into the game that they think people will like. That's all. Now you may think that PVP is inherently competive, but there are other people who think crafting and beating PVE content is inherently competivie. That's the elephant in the room you're not seeing.
I think the game is about exploring. The first players who explore all the areas in the game, will be the best players. PVP is only in the game to kill some time before doing more exploring sessions. That's the logic you're using. It's not logical, it's just personal preference haphazardly argued like it's fact.
The whole esport aspect of structured PvP. The fact that servers get graded based on their performance in WvWvW and get matched with similar servers... But that's not my point.
My point is that ArenaNet has designed this game a certain way and it's unrealistic to expect them to change their design based on your, or my, preference.
Yes, I would agree that they indeed did design structured PvP with competition in mind. However, in other games, people still see PvP as a competition of interest even if all the developers did was to enable one person being able to drop the other person's hp to 0. Should developers ignore the PVP competition even in such games?
Again, if the competition is not actually built into the game, we should not expect the developers to care about it. It's a simple as that.
PvP is not a very good example anyway. The very nature of PvP makes it a competition. You're competing against another player because you're both trying to kill each other's character. So it doesn't matter if the develop adds ladders or rankings, as PvP is competitive because it's you vs the other guy.
I play a game it is called Real Life, in Real Life I found Pay 2 Win is the way to go. Guess what I am awesome at that game, WINNING!!! So if I play GW2 (which most likely I will) I will show my vote via the best voting system ever....Cash. Money motivates, money makes things move, money gets jobs done. I employ a very large staff, I increase wages or add bonuses my people do more work and do it better. If I want GW2 to be succesful I will contribute to help fund that success.
If anyone in here can honestly say that if thier boss came in and offered them an extra two dollars an hour to be awesome and the best and your response was "Sorry in my "Real Life" I don't accept cash to win", well then I will still call you a liar. That response just would not happen.
Except, many of the relevant competitions are not pay to win, hell major aspects of life are not about compeitition either. You do not automatically get healthy relationships by just throwing money at them, you do not make a scientific breakthough just by spending a lot of money, you do not automatically become disciplined by just spending a lot of money.
Comments
That's an opinion, not a principle.
Also the argument is not about "non-cosmetics" in the cash shop. It's about the cash shop itself. People just don't want it. They believe since subscription model games (most) don't have one, B2P games shouldn't either. That's ridiculous. Your principle is based on the concept of subscription based games.
GW2 is not, so that "principle" shouldn't apply.
I'd also like to know which P2P games have absolutely no cash shops nowadays. Are there any anymore? Not amongst the top played ones I'm sure.
Riot is probably not the best choice of words..
PM before you report at least or you could just block.
Yes, I would agree that they indeed did design structured PvP with competition in mind. However, in other games, people still see PvP as a competition of interest even if all the developers did was to enable one person being able to drop the other person's hp to 0. Should developers ignore the PVP competition even in such games?
It's kind of silly considering that almost all subscription based MMOs have cash shops as well. Yet no one has issues with that. GW2 has no subscription fee and a cash shop and all of a sudden is the freaking antichrist.
Principles, unless they are based on science, are all opinions, lol.
Edit: I could have used the term "fundamental opinion" instead though, to avoid confusion. However, peoeple may think of negatively of the term "fundamental" due to terms such as "fundementalists" in connection with religion. It is though a neutral term used to describe that something is basic.
Riot all you want, it wont change a thing but it will show you are living in the past.
Oh wait, im sorry I should have just said "stick to WoW" and be done with it.
I hope we shall crush...in its birth the aristocracy of our moneyed corporations, which dare already to challenge our government to a trial of strength and bid defiance to the laws of our country." ~Thomes Jefferson
Boosters and vanity items I really couldn't care about as long as it doesn't involve unfair advantage in PVP.
The problem however is when a game asks you pay pay real money to change a characters appearance like any little details about it. I want to change my hair to match my new costume gotta spend $10. Want to change skin tone $10, want to change a face $10. That is my problem and I refuse to play a game like this no matter F2P, or Pay 2 Play like Aion I quit Aion because of these features and besides the multihacks that killed Aion along with the CashShop in a P2P game it could have gone a lot better but they had very bad development.
I would say that if you have preorder guildwars 2 Protest certain functions you do not like which you have to pay for. For example it would be nice if people who don't login on their boosters got some type of bonus for example you buy it on the first of the month don't login a entire week instead of it all just going to waste but most companies don't do this although there are some that do but it is rare to find those.
In response to Cash Shops, I support Real Money Trading, and I believe that MMORPG companies should enforce and allow in game real money trading similar to Rohan, And sony which allows you to trade and sell characters and items for Game Points bought with Real Money, or Station Cash which sony allows you to buy characters I believe and items.
Look at it this way if a person played the game for years, and wants to sell some gold they have earned while selling in game items is considered a TOS, or EULA breach, you are not selling the in game items because they belong to the developers you are selling your time you spent to farm and obtain those items the content remains property of the game company and always will. This is the way I see it and I feel that game companies should allow a in game selling function similar to Second Life, Entropia, Real Time Worlds, and other games like Runes OF Magic which have people who pay Diamonds for items in game by giefing items, so why not allow it?
At the same time there would be possibly a Cash Out option where players could cash out the money if the service offered that and at the same time it would give the company a chance to profit which charges like $0.50 - $1 on certain transactions made from player to player while that may not seem like a lot it adds up quite fast when people start using it in addition to the monthly fee or other boosters sold.
The problem with the F2P games in my opinion is the management of such MMO's are not educated and really don't know how to roll in the big bucks and we are talking about more money than Blizzard once made on WOW, that is if the game is designed properly.
What I am against is people hacking, or stealing another players account, or things like Botting, or spamming chat.
I know, right?
I can understand the argument if the cash shop has legendary weapons and armors and crafting materials etc... but the chances of that happening are laughable. I've played GW2 at both PAX Primes in the last couple years and yes, you can talk to any and all the ArenaNet people there. While decisions like the cash shop will ultimately fall to management and higher ups, if their employees are anything to go by, something like that won't happen.
They're gamers like us. Blatantly making the game a cash race is something they're not interested in.
Err? Item malls being implemented in P2P games, specially when they are more than just cosmetic, used to be a large source of complaints. It is one of the reasons why The Secret World received a lot of critique.
I play a game it is called Real Life, in Real Life I found Pay 2 Win is the way to go. Guess what I am awesome at that game, WINNING!!! So if I play GW2 (which most likely I will) I will show my vote via the best voting system ever....Cash. Money motivates, money makes things move, money gets jobs done. I employ a very large staff, I increase wages or add bonuses my people do more work and do it better. If I want GW2 to be succesful I will contribute to help fund that success.
If anyone in here can honestly say that if thier boss came in and offered them an extra two dollars an hour to be awesome and the best and your response was "Sorry in my "Real Life" I don't accept cash to win", well then I will still call you a liar. That response just would not happen.
I might get banned for this. - Rizel Star.
I'm not afraid to tell trolls what they [need] to hear, even if that means for me to have an forced absence afterwards.
P2P LOGIC = If it's P2P it means longevity, overall better game, and THE BEST SUPPORT EVER!!!!!(Which has been rinsed and repeated about a thousand times)
Common Sense Logic = P2P logic is no better than F2P Logic.
Umm no they aren't. Opinion is belief based on one's own beliefs. Principles are a code or tenant for the conduct towards those 'accepted' beliefs (more often from someone else, work, family etc.)
They are not the same.
I don't feel like getting all technical with you, because you're obviously doding my question still.
Why is it WRONG to use or have a cash shop that isn't against you personally? And we're talking about one that doesn't have legendary items and the like.
Again, if the competition is not actually built into the game, we should not expect the developers to care about it. It's a simple as that.
PvP is not a very good example anyway. The very nature of PvP makes it a competition. You're competing against another player because you're both trying to kill each other's character. So it doesn't matter if the develop adds ladders or rankings, as PvP is competitive because it's you vs the other guy.
Except, many of the relevant competitions are not pay to win, hell major aspects of life are not about compeitition either. You do not automatically get healthy relationships by just throwing money at them, you do not make a scientific breakthough just by spending a lot of money, you do not automatically become disciplined by just spending a lot of money.