This beta weekend, riot against the gems and cash shop

Terrorizor

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by Terrorizor

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by Terrorizor

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

(quotes)

unfortunately, I don't like the setup for bulleting, but I just tried to make the best of it that I could.

The "1" was a description of reasoning for their position.  The "2" was a potential solution, to resolve their complaint.

The group which you feel I forgot, is covered under the first group, and my solution for the first group was that everything available in the cash shop should also be available through time investment within the game.

 

While they share some people, there is a significant difference. there are people who have more money than time and still think that " if a person wants something in a game, they should play the game". Those particular people don't seem to be included in any of your groups. 

OK. I think we need to clarify this.  Are you saying that there should be a seperate group of people that feel that because they choose to play the game to earn the rewards, nobody else should have the right to pay for rewards instead of earning them through time effort?

It doesn't matter what they actually choose, what matters is what they think. Furthermore, while "If a person wants something in a game, they should play the game" excludes paying real money for rewards inside the game, it does not necessarely mean that the rewards should be earned through time effort. Being very intelligent or having another set of skills can be rewarded inside a game without actually requiring any significant time effort. 

Sorry, your statement  "it doesn't matter what they choose, what matters is what they think" needs context. I asked for clarification, not generalization.

When you say that rewards can be earned through skills instead of time effort, what exactly do you mean? Please give us a good accurate example.

Searias

Originally posted by Betakodo

We keep hearing about how feedback from the beta weekend will determine what's put in the game and release, so on the feedback forms this weekend, be sure to put negative feedback in every form regarding gems and the cash shop. Of course, go ahead and look at all the crap that gold can buy you. The most expensive I believe will be the commander position for WvW and PvE along with prestiege.

Down with legalized cheating and unfairness! Down with cash shop in a $60 game!

Remember, gold buying is illegal in other online games for a reason. Gamers, rise up like we did in Operation Rainfall! Except this time against companies trying to squeeze more cash out of us! Enough with on the disc DLC and cash shops in non F2P games. It's time we as gamers take a stand! Arenanet needs to fight the gold farmers instead of becoming the gold farmers themselves to profit. They haven't fought the farmers yet and yet they implement legalized RMT? Backwards.

Kudos to the heroes who reported Capcom for having on disc DLC to the better business bureau. You can be a hero too! Complain about gems and the cash shop in every feedback form you get, and on the official beta forums.

I don't mind ArenaNet needs to make money some how to maintain this game. Having a form of getting gold for money though their cash shops will minimize the amount of chinese gold farmers and bots :P.

heartless

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

You are the one that argued that the competitions that should matter are those that are sanctioned. You furthermore argued that PVP competition is always sanctioned by the mere existence of PVP since it is inheretely competitive. By the same argumentation, the buying/selling competitions are competitions that should matter. 

 

I think the whole viewpoint is odd and that just because something is inheretely competitive, it shouldn't automatically mean that it is a competition that should matter. I think that developers themselves and the players decide which competitions matter. Since so many people care about PvP competitions, the developers ought to take consideration to it if they have PVP in their game. 

 

Using my train of thoughts, in a game where only 1% of the population cares about the buying/selling competitions, the developers have good reason to not put much thought into those competitions, even though the buying/selling through a market/auction is inheretely competitive.

 

I have no idea how large or small % of the potential players had competitions, which they personally found relevant, affected by GW2's item mall system, but they do indeed have the right to feel that the item mall caused unnecessary negative effects. 

 

My point, again, is that the developers should take into consideration only the things that are either part of the design document or things that a large chunk of the playerbase cares about. Only a small percentage of the population cares about stuff like server firsts and being the richest. The rest just want to have fun.

The item mall affected many different smaller competitions, so I do wonder if the group of people that care about any of those smaller competions which were affected, is so small in %.

The only way that would actually matter is if the item mall was added after the competitions started. You're going into the game and the various competitions knowing full well that the item mall exists. It's fair play because it's part of the original package. If you choose not to use it, that's your option but it is part of the game and you have the same access to it as I do.

To put it in a different perspective, its like joining a budybuilding competition for steroid users and complaing that they have an unfair advantage because you don't use steroids. The competition is created for steroid users!

TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by Terrorizor

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by Terrorizor

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by Terrorizor

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

(quotes)

unfortunately, I don't like the setup for bulleting, but I just tried to make the best of it that I could.

The "1" was a description of reasoning for their position.  The "2" was a potential solution, to resolve their complaint.

The group which you feel I forgot, is covered under the first group, and my solution for the first group was that everything available in the cash shop should also be available through time investment within the game.

 

While they share some people, there is a significant difference. there are people who have more money than time and still think that " if a person wants something in a game, they should play the game". Those particular people don't seem to be included in any of your groups. 

OK. I think we need to clarify this.  Are you saying that there should be a seperate group of people that feel that because they choose to play the game to earn the rewards, nobody else should have the right to pay for rewards instead of earning them through time effort?

It doesn't matter what they actually choose, what matters is what they think. Furthermore, while "If a person wants something in a game, they should play the game" excludes paying real money for rewards inside the game, it does not necessarely mean that the rewards should be earned through time effort. Being very intelligent or having another set of skills can be rewarded inside a game without actually requiring any significant time effort. 

Sorry, your statement  "it doesn't matter what they choose, what matters is what they think" needs context. I asked for clarification, not generalization.

When you say that rewards can be earned through skills instead of time effort, what exactly do you mean? Please give us a good accurate example.

When I said "It doesn't matter what they choose, what matter is what they think": I took into consideration multiple scenarios where you choose something that you really don't like because of other reasons. For instance, a person that normally loaths the item mall, may have a moment of weakness where they are just fed up with the grinding and for a moment decide to take the easy way out by opening their wallet.

 

As for rewards which were earned mostly by skill rather than time effort: rewards from different PvP contests where both sides have access to the same tools, different trivia contests where the answers are not googleble (your memory rather than time effort is mostly rewarded),  different forms of tests resembling IQ-tests, bosses which are difficult due to requiring the players to have great reflexes rather than gear, etc. 

TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

You are the one that argued that the competitions that should matter are those that are sanctioned. You furthermore argued that PVP competition is always sanctioned by the mere existence of PVP since it is inheretely competitive. By the same argumentation, the buying/selling competitions are competitions that should matter. 

 

I think the whole viewpoint is odd and that just because something is inheretely competitive, it shouldn't automatically mean that it is a competition that should matter. I think that developers themselves and the players decide which competitions matter. Since so many people care about PvP competitions, the developers ought to take consideration to it if they have PVP in their game. 

 

Using my train of thoughts, in a game where only 1% of the population cares about the buying/selling competitions, the developers have good reason to not put much thought into those competitions, even though the buying/selling through a market/auction is inheretely competitive.

 

I have no idea how large or small % of the potential players had competitions, which they personally found relevant, affected by GW2's item mall system, but they do indeed have the right to feel that the item mall caused unnecessary negative effects. 

 

My point, again, is that the developers should take into consideration only the things that are either part of the design document or things that a large chunk of the playerbase cares about. Only a small percentage of the population cares about stuff like server firsts and being the richest. The rest just want to have fun.

The item mall affected many different smaller competitions, so I do wonder if the group of people that care about any of those smaller competions which were affected, is so small in %.

The only way that would actually matter is if the item mall was added after the competitions started. You're going into the game and the various competitions knowing full well that the item mall exists. It's fair play because it's part of the original package. If you choose not to use it, that's your option but it is part of the game and you have the same access to it as I do.

To put it in a different perspective, its like joining a budybuilding competition for steroid users and complaing that they have an unfair advantage because you don't use steroids. The competition is created for steroid users!

 

One can argue that is precisely what happened, since GW1 did not have the gems-for-gold system, while they implemented it in GW2. 

heartless

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

You are the one that argued that the competitions that should matter are those that are sanctioned. You furthermore argued that PVP competition is always sanctioned by the mere existence of PVP since it is inheretely competitive. By the same argumentation, the buying/selling competitions are competitions that should matter. 

 

I think the whole viewpoint is odd and that just because something is inheretely competitive, it shouldn't automatically mean that it is a competition that should matter. I think that developers themselves and the players decide which competitions matter. Since so many people care about PvP competitions, the developers ought to take consideration to it if they have PVP in their game. 

 

Using my train of thoughts, in a game where only 1% of the population cares about the buying/selling competitions, the developers have good reason to not put much thought into those competitions, even though the buying/selling through a market/auction is inheretely competitive.

 

I have no idea how large or small % of the potential players had competitions, which they personally found relevant, affected by GW2's item mall system, but they do indeed have the right to feel that the item mall caused unnecessary negative effects. 

 

My point, again, is that the developers should take into consideration only the things that are either part of the design document or things that a large chunk of the playerbase cares about. Only a small percentage of the population cares about stuff like server firsts and being the richest. The rest just want to have fun.

The item mall affected many different smaller competitions, so I do wonder if the group of people that care about any of those smaller competions which were affected, is so small in %.

The only way that would actually matter is if the item mall was added after the competitions started. You're going into the game and the various competitions knowing full well that the item mall exists. It's fair play because it's part of the original package. If you choose not to use it, that's your option but it is part of the game and you have the same access to it as I do.

To put it in a different perspective, its like joining a budybuilding competition for steroid users and complaing that they have an unfair advantage because you don't use steroids. The competition is created for steroid users!

 

One can argue that is precisely what happened, since GW1 did not have the gems-for-gold system, while they implemented it in GW2. 

This is not GW1. This is GW2. It's a different game and has to be approached differently.

TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

You are the one that argued that the competitions that should matter are those that are sanctioned. You furthermore argued that PVP competition is always sanctioned by the mere existence of PVP since it is inheretely competitive. By the same argumentation, the buying/selling competitions are competitions that should matter. 

 

I think the whole viewpoint is odd and that just because something is inheretely competitive, it shouldn't automatically mean that it is a competition that should matter. I think that developers themselves and the players decide which competitions matter. Since so many people care about PvP competitions, the developers ought to take consideration to it if they have PVP in their game. 

 

Using my train of thoughts, in a game where only 1% of the population cares about the buying/selling competitions, the developers have good reason to not put much thought into those competitions, even though the buying/selling through a market/auction is inheretely competitive.

 

I have no idea how large or small % of the potential players had competitions, which they personally found relevant, affected by GW2's item mall system, but they do indeed have the right to feel that the item mall caused unnecessary negative effects. 

 

My point, again, is that the developers should take into consideration only the things that are either part of the design document or things that a large chunk of the playerbase cares about. Only a small percentage of the population cares about stuff like server firsts and being the richest. The rest just want to have fun.

The item mall affected many different smaller competitions, so I do wonder if the group of people that care about any of those smaller competions which were affected, is so small in %.

The only way that would actually matter is if the item mall was added after the competitions started. You're going into the game and the various competitions knowing full well that the item mall exists. It's fair play because it's part of the original package. If you choose not to use it, that's your option but it is part of the game and you have the same access to it as I do.

To put it in a different perspective, its like joining a budybuilding competition for steroid users and complaing that they have an unfair advantage because you don't use steroids. The competition is created for steroid users!

 

One can argue that is precisely what happened, since GW1 did not have the gems-for-gold system, while they implemented it in GW2. 

This is not GW1. This is GW2. It's a different game and has to be approached differently.

 

So tell me: why did GW2 need to have a gems-for-gold system, while GW1 did not?

sassoonss

Originally posted by Sigilaea

I congratulate the OP on making the worst thread of 2012. You just want ANET to give you their game for free. I am so tired of the self-entitled generation.

This + 1

 

Its the arrogance also

 

I approached my company to check whether I could get more car expenses paid due to high petrol costs, maintenance etc

They told me they were willing to do that provided I agreed to paint my car with there company logo.Some of the employees di take the offer personally i didnt but the offer was reasonable

 

If the opening thread doesnt like the business model domt play.Dont come ranting foul play without knowing how Anet operates , how cash shops worked in GW1 and how they have planned it in GW2

Betakodo

Originally posted by sassoonss

Originally posted by Sigilaea

I congratulate the OP on making the worst thread of 2012. You just want ANET to give you their game for free. I am so tired of the self-entitled generation.

This + 1

 Its the arrogance also 

If the opening thread doesnt like the business model domt play.Dont come ranting foul play without knowing how Anet operates , how cash shops worked in GW1 and how they have planned it in GW2

Where do I ask for it to be free? Free to play games are free and have a cash shop, this game costs $60 and has a cash shop.

I am so tired of the company white knight generation.

sassoonss, I suspect you didn't play GW1 or at least didn't play it before it died. No costumes cash shop BS until after Eye of the North. Aka when GW1 towns and missions were dustbowls.

heartless

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

You are the one that argued that the competitions that should matter are those that are sanctioned. You furthermore argued that PVP competition is always sanctioned by the mere existence of PVP since it is inheretely competitive. By the same argumentation, the buying/selling competitions are competitions that should matter. 

 

I think the whole viewpoint is odd and that just because something is inheretely competitive, it shouldn't automatically mean that it is a competition that should matter. I think that developers themselves and the players decide which competitions matter. Since so many people care about PvP competitions, the developers ought to take consideration to it if they have PVP in their game. 

 

Using my train of thoughts, in a game where only 1% of the population cares about the buying/selling competitions, the developers have good reason to not put much thought into those competitions, even though the buying/selling through a market/auction is inheretely competitive.

 

I have no idea how large or small % of the potential players had competitions, which they personally found relevant, affected by GW2's item mall system, but they do indeed have the right to feel that the item mall caused unnecessary negative effects. 

 

My point, again, is that the developers should take into consideration only the things that are either part of the design document or things that a large chunk of the playerbase cares about. Only a small percentage of the population cares about stuff like server firsts and being the richest. The rest just want to have fun.

The item mall affected many different smaller competitions, so I do wonder if the group of people that care about any of those smaller competions which were affected, is so small in %.

The only way that would actually matter is if the item mall was added after the competitions started. You're going into the game and the various competitions knowing full well that the item mall exists. It's fair play because it's part of the original package. If you choose not to use it, that's your option but it is part of the game and you have the same access to it as I do.

To put it in a different perspective, its like joining a budybuilding competition for steroid users and complaing that they have an unfair advantage because you don't use steroids. The competition is created for steroid users!

 

One can argue that is precisely what happened, since GW1 did not have the gems-for-gold system, while they implemented it in GW2. 

This is not GW1. This is GW2. It's a different game and has to be approached differently.

 

So tell me: why did GW2 need to have a gems-for-gold system, while GW1 did not?

Why does WoW charge $25 for a flying horse and GW2 doesn't?

Corehaven

Originally posted by Betakodo

Originally posted by sassoonss

Originally posted by Sigilaea

I congratulate the OP on making the worst thread of 2012. You just want ANET to give you their game for free. I am so tired of the self-entitled generation.

This + 1

 Its the arrogance also 

If the opening thread doesnt like the business model domt play.Dont come ranting foul play without knowing how Anet operates , how cash shops worked in GW1 and how they have planned it in GW2

Where do I ask for it to be free? Free to play games are free and have a cash shop, this game costs $60 and has a cash shop.

I am so tired of the company white knight generation.

sassoonss, I suspect you didn't play GW1 or at least didn't play it before it died. No costumes cash shop BS until after Eye of the North. Aka when GW1 towns and missions were dustbowls.

 

Yea its obviously not enough for gamers to not buy the game.  I guess those still excited for GW2 dont care about the cash shop.  Either that or they like it.  I dont care either way.  Because I dont care about the stupid cash shop. 

 

Its other things in GW2 Im interested about.  And dont go jabbering to me that its going to give advantage or whatever because for me it wont.   I dont plan to hit up PVP until I reach 80.   I'll be PVEing like crazy.  Then as an end game thing I'll use PVP to and W v W to satisfy it. 

 

I can see nothing in the cash shop thats going to disadvantage me or keep me from fully enjoying the game.  Oooo, my friend got to level 30 faster because he bought an xp boost.  Im great with that.  Doesnt affect me.  I dont care. 

Searias

Originally posted by Betakodo

Originally posted by sassoonss

Originally posted by Sigilaea

I congratulate the OP on making the worst thread of 2012. You just want ANET to give you their game for free. I am so tired of the self-entitled generation.

This + 1

 Its the arrogance also 

If the opening thread doesnt like the business model domt play.Dont come ranting foul play without knowing how Anet operates , how cash shops worked in GW1 and how they have planned it in GW2

Where do I ask for it to be free? Free to play games are free and have a cash shop, this game costs $60 and has a cash shop.

I am so tired of the company white knight generation.

sassoonss, I suspect you didn't play GW1 or at least didn't play it before it died. No costumes cash shop BS until after Eye of the North. Aka when GW1 towns and missions were dustbowls.

They still have to make money somewhere right? We have no idea how often they are going to release expansions for Guild Wars 2, so they will need money in order to maintain stuff. Without cash shops profit would go down month to month after initial sales, and no stakeholder would ever want that.

Corehaven

Originally posted by Searias

They still have to make money somewhere right? We have no idea how often they are going to release expansions for Guild Wars 2, so they will need money in order to maintain stuff. Without cash shops profit would go down month to month after initial sales, and no stakeholder would ever want that.

Im probably going to buy extremely little or nothing from the cash shop.  But when a GW2 player says to me they are hitting up events because they have an XP boost I'll be thrilled and my response will be, " You're awesome.  Thanks for supporting Anet."

Terrorizor

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by Terrorizor

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by Terrorizor

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by Terrorizor

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

(quotes)

unfortunately, I don't like the setup for bulleting, but I just tried to make the best of it that I could.

The "1" was a description of reasoning for their position.  The "2" was a potential solution, to resolve their complaint.

The group which you feel I forgot, is covered under the first group, and my solution for the first group was that everything available in the cash shop should also be available through time investment within the game.

 

While they share some people, there is a significant difference. there are people who have more money than time and still think that " if a person wants something in a game, they should play the game". Those particular people don't seem to be included in any of your groups. 

OK. I think we need to clarify this.  Are you saying that there should be a seperate group of people that feel that because they choose to play the game to earn the rewards, nobody else should have the right to pay for rewards instead of earning them through time effort?

It doesn't matter what they actually choose, what matters is what they think. Furthermore, while "If a person wants something in a game, they should play the game" excludes paying real money for rewards inside the game, it does not necessarely mean that the rewards should be earned through time effort. Being very intelligent or having another set of skills can be rewarded inside a game without actually requiring any significant time effort. 

Sorry, your statement  "it doesn't matter what they choose, what matters is what they think" needs context. I asked for clarification, not generalization.

When you say that rewards can be earned through skills instead of time effort, what exactly do you mean? Please give us a good accurate example.

When I said "It doesn't matter what they choose, what matter is what they think": I took into consideration multiple scenarios where you choose something that you really don't like because of other reasons. For instance, a person that normally loaths the item mall, may have a moment of weakness where they are just fed up with the grinding and for a moment decide to take the easy way out by opening their wallet.

 

As for rewards which were earned mostly by skill rather than time effort: rewards from different PvP contests where both sides have access to the same tools, different trivia contests where the answers are not googleble (your memory rather than time effort is mostly rewarded),  different forms of tests resembling IQ-tests, bosses which are difficult due to requiring the players to have great reflexes rather than gear, etc. 

Ok. so according to your clarification, this group of people feels that because they think that everybody should earn the rewards in game instead of being able to take the easy way out and buy the item at the cash shop.  This group of people would be effectively covered by the third group.

• 
  These people hold their own personal merit by how well they are recognized in a virtual (pretend) world.
  • 
    If they were not concerned about showing off their uber skills, why would they care about what anyone else does?

You seem to be stumbling on one particular concept. Just because you can gain rewards via the cash shop, does not imply that all rewards obtainable through gameplay will be available through the cash shop. The only factor of importance is that all cash shop rewards can be obtainable through gameplay as well.

rykim86

Some people just can't accept the fact other people can get the same thing with money instead of time invested.

Like I said before, it's just people with huge egos that have problems with this.

gaeanprayer

Originally posted by Betakodo

Originally posted by sassoonss

Originally posted by Sigilaea

I congratulate the OP on making the worst thread of 2012. You just want ANET to give you their game for free. I am so tired of the self-entitled generation.

This + 1

 Its the arrogance also 

If the opening thread doesnt like the business model domt play.Dont come ranting foul play without knowing how Anet operates , how cash shops worked in GW1 and how they have planned it in GW2

Where do I ask for it to be free? Free to play games are free and have a cash shop, this game costs $60 and has a cash shop.

I am so tired of the company white knight generation.

sassoonss, I suspect you didn't play GW1 or at least didn't play it before it died. No costumes cash shop BS until after Eye of the North. Aka when GW1 towns and missions were dustbowls.

You keep putting this in league with F2P games. It is not. If GW2 said it was going to be box price + sub fee like every other P2P MMO out there, you wouldn't have anything to complain about. Instead, it's going to be box price, then NO sub fee, and this is something to complain about? Your lack of context is astonishing. 

There's nothing in that cash shop you need. Meanwhile, those f2p games you keep talking about have +enchant rates, +stat costumes, weapons/armor in the cash shop, etc. Now that, is pay to win, and that's what you're comparing GW2 to? That's what you want it to become comparable to? Sounds like it completely defeats the purpose to your own argument, which means it's a shallow one. I would reconsider it, if I were you.

As for the gems, I'm not a fan of that particular system. I see it's benefits, but I also see the pitfalls. However, I've seen it work extremely well in some games (EVE, PWE) and likewise I've seen it ruin economies and become a necessity to play (Runes of Magic). Right now, there's nothing in GW2 that's necessary to play, besides the game itself. So, complaining about something that ~could~ happen instead of something that is or definitely will happen is a waste of time and energy.

Should GW2 decide to make their cash shop p2w, rage on. You have my blessing. Right now, you sound ridiculous.

EDIT - BTW, costumes were post GWEN in GW1, but the cash shop existed far before then. GW1 was selling the pet/skill pack by Nightfall for Heroes, and character slots, expansions and bonus missions were there since Factions.

TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by Terrorizor

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by Terrorizor

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by Terrorizor

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by Terrorizor

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

(quotes)

unfortunately, I don't like the setup for bulleting, but I just tried to make the best of it that I could.

The "1" was a description of reasoning for their position.  The "2" was a potential solution, to resolve their complaint.

The group which you feel I forgot, is covered under the first group, and my solution for the first group was that everything available in the cash shop should also be available through time investment within the game.

 

While they share some people, there is a significant difference. there are people who have more money than time and still think that " if a person wants something in a game, they should play the game". Those particular people don't seem to be included in any of your groups. 

OK. I think we need to clarify this.  Are you saying that there should be a seperate group of people that feel that because they choose to play the game to earn the rewards, nobody else should have the right to pay for rewards instead of earning them through time effort?

It doesn't matter what they actually choose, what matters is what they think. Furthermore, while "If a person wants something in a game, they should play the game" excludes paying real money for rewards inside the game, it does not necessarely mean that the rewards should be earned through time effort. Being very intelligent or having another set of skills can be rewarded inside a game without actually requiring any significant time effort. 

Sorry, your statement  "it doesn't matter what they choose, what matters is what they think" needs context. I asked for clarification, not generalization.

When you say that rewards can be earned through skills instead of time effort, what exactly do you mean? Please give us a good accurate example.

When I said "It doesn't matter what they choose, what matter is what they think": I took into consideration multiple scenarios where you choose something that you really don't like because of other reasons. For instance, a person that normally loaths the item mall, may have a moment of weakness where they are just fed up with the grinding and for a moment decide to take the easy way out by opening their wallet.

 

As for rewards which were earned mostly by skill rather than time effort: rewards from different PvP contests where both sides have access to the same tools, different trivia contests where the answers are not googleble (your memory rather than time effort is mostly rewarded),  different forms of tests resembling IQ-tests, bosses which are difficult due to requiring the players to have great reflexes rather than gear, etc. 

Ok. so according to your clarification, this group of people feels that because they think that everybody should earn the rewards in game instead of being able to take the easy way out and buy the item at the cash shop.  This group of people would be effectively covered by the third group.

• 
  These people hold their own personal merit by how well they are recognized in a virtual (pretend) world.
  • 
    If they were not concerned about showing off their uber skills, why would they care about what anyone else does?

You seem to be stumbling on one particular concept. Just because you can gain rewards via the cash shop, does not imply that all rewards obtainable through gameplay will be available through the cash shop. The only factor of importance is that all cash shop rewards can be obtainable through gameplay as well.

It doesn't matter if cash shop is the "easy way" out, the standpoint is that "If a person wants something in a game, they should play the game". The statement does not take consideration to how much cash shop helps the person in question. 

Furthermore, they do not need to care about what other people think about them in the virtual world, which is why "These people hold their own personal merit by how well they are recognized in a virtual (pretend) world" doesn't work either to describe them. 

sassoonss

Originally posted by Betakodo

Originally posted by sassoonss

Originally posted by Sigilaea

I congratulate the OP on making the worst thread of 2012. You just want ANET to give you their game for free. I am so tired of the self-entitled generation.

This + 1

 Its the arrogance also 

If the opening thread doesnt like the business model domt play.Dont come ranting foul play without knowing how Anet operates , how cash shops worked in GW1 and how they have planned it in GW2

Where do I ask for it to be free? Free to play games are free and have a cash shop, this game costs $60 and has a cash shop.

I am so tired of the company white knight generation.

sassoonss, I suspect you didn't play GW1 or at least didn't play it before it died. No costumes cash shop BS until after Eye of the North. Aka when GW1 towns and missions were dustbowls.

I have played GW and all the campaigns thoroughly and not once I was compelled to buy anything form there store.The game in no way I repeat no way hampered my gameplay or gave undue advantage to others due to store.

 

What wrong with cosmetic costumes .If you really want to look as cash shops then look at AION which has turned free  to play.AION was agame I paid in full and had subs for fe months, now it has so gone bad u cant be effective without cash shop

Distaste

Originally posted by Betakodo

Originally posted by sassoonss

Originally posted by Sigilaea

I congratulate the OP on making the worst thread of 2012. You just want ANET to give you their game for free. I am so tired of the self-entitled generation.

This + 1

 Its the arrogance also 

If the opening thread doesnt like the business model domt play.Dont come ranting foul play without knowing how Anet operates , how cash shops worked in GW1 and how they have planned it in GW2

Where do I ask for it to be free? Free to play games are free and have a cash shop, this game costs $60 and has a cash shop.

I am so tired of the company white knight generation.

sassoonss, I suspect you didn't play GW1 or at least didn't play it before it died. No costumes cash shop BS until after Eye of the North. Aka when GW1 towns and missions were dustbowls.

Correction. They are providing a subscription level MMORPG with a cash shop in place of a subscription. This isn't a F2P level game where everything is clunky/half-baked, very infrequent updates/patches or you're forced to buy things from the cash shop because otherwise you can't compete. I have yet to see a mechanic in GW2 that pushes you into buying cash shop items. They are providing a triple-A level game and an optional cash shop, that's very different than a poorly converted asian MMO cash shop or a 5 year old western MMO going F2P because they don't have enough subscribers.

It isn't about being a white knight, it's about you getting your facts straight.

TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

You are the one that argued that the competitions that should matter are those that are sanctioned. You furthermore argued that PVP competition is always sanctioned by the mere existence of PVP since it is inheretely competitive. By the same argumentation, the buying/selling competitions are competitions that should matter. 

 

I think the whole viewpoint is odd and that just because something is inheretely competitive, it shouldn't automatically mean that it is a competition that should matter. I think that developers themselves and the players decide which competitions matter. Since so many people care about PvP competitions, the developers ought to take consideration to it if they have PVP in their game. 

 

Using my train of thoughts, in a game where only 1% of the population cares about the buying/selling competitions, the developers have good reason to not put much thought into those competitions, even though the buying/selling through a market/auction is inheretely competitive.

 

I have no idea how large or small % of the potential players had competitions, which they personally found relevant, affected by GW2's item mall system, but they do indeed have the right to feel that the item mall caused unnecessary negative effects. 

 

My point, again, is that the developers should take into consideration only the things that are either part of the design document or things that a large chunk of the playerbase cares about. Only a small percentage of the population cares about stuff like server firsts and being the richest. The rest just want to have fun.

The item mall affected many different smaller competitions, so I do wonder if the group of people that care about any of those smaller competions which were affected, is so small in %.

The only way that would actually matter is if the item mall was added after the competitions started. You're going into the game and the various competitions knowing full well that the item mall exists. It's fair play because it's part of the original package. If you choose not to use it, that's your option but it is part of the game and you have the same access to it as I do.

To put it in a different perspective, its like joining a budybuilding competition for steroid users and complaing that they have an unfair advantage because you don't use steroids. The competition is created for steroid users!

 

One can argue that is precisely what happened, since GW1 did not have the gems-for-gold system, while they implemented it in GW2. 

This is not GW1. This is GW2. It's a different game and has to be approached differently.

 

So tell me: why did GW2 need to have a gems-for-gold system, while GW1 did not?

Why does WoW charge $25 for a flying horse and GW2 doesn't?

Arenanet is the one that was QQing about how subscription fees are unfair and unjustified. So yeah, they lost the privilige to use the "I am a company and I can do whatever I fucking want to maximize my profits". Arenanet chose to take the high road and given that basis, I ask again: Why did GW2 need to have a gems-for-gold system, while GW1 did not?

gordiflu

Originally posted by rykim86

Some people just can't accept the fact other people can get the same thing with money instead of time invested.

Like I said before, it's just people with huge egos that have problems with this.

Money sucks enough already in RL to put it into the equation in games too. Some people play games to evade reality and the more detached from the real world their virtual one is, the better.

And I am not even mentioning PVP.

You have probably heard this before but, here it comes again: go buy your game, then buy a top level toon and buy its gear/achievements/etc. Congratulations, you have won (bought) the game. Now what?

Or I could use your same words and say that some people just can't accept the fact that some people are willing to put more effort into their game than them. It's got to do with huge egos that have a problem with this.

 

gaeanprayer

Originally posted by gordiflu

 

You have probably heard this before but, here it comes again: go buy your game, then buy a top level toon and buy its gear/achievements/etc. Congratulations, you have won (bought) the game. Now what?

 

 

Then, nothing. The person who, presumably is not you, just wasted money to beat a game without playing it, and has probably ruined a lot of the fun they'd have had otherwise. But it wasn't you, so that they've destroyed their enjoyment of the game should be irrelevant to you. In other words, live and let live. Enjoy the game as it was meant to be played for years to come, knowing it's supported on the backs of fools and their so-easily parted monies.

heartless

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by heartless

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

You are the one that argued that the competitions that should matter are those that are sanctioned. You furthermore argued that PVP competition is always sanctioned by the mere existence of PVP since it is inheretely competitive. By the same argumentation, the buying/selling competitions are competitions that should matter. 

 

I think the whole viewpoint is odd and that just because something is inheretely competitive, it shouldn't automatically mean that it is a competition that should matter. I think that developers themselves and the players decide which competitions matter. Since so many people care about PvP competitions, the developers ought to take consideration to it if they have PVP in their game. 

 

Using my train of thoughts, in a game where only 1% of the population cares about the buying/selling competitions, the developers have good reason to not put much thought into those competitions, even though the buying/selling through a market/auction is inheretely competitive.

 

I have no idea how large or small % of the potential players had competitions, which they personally found relevant, affected by GW2's item mall system, but they do indeed have the right to feel that the item mall caused unnecessary negative effects. 

 

My point, again, is that the developers should take into consideration only the things that are either part of the design document or things that a large chunk of the playerbase cares about. Only a small percentage of the population cares about stuff like server firsts and being the richest. The rest just want to have fun.

The item mall affected many different smaller competitions, so I do wonder if the group of people that care about any of those smaller competions which were affected, is so small in %.

The only way that would actually matter is if the item mall was added after the competitions started. You're going into the game and the various competitions knowing full well that the item mall exists. It's fair play because it's part of the original package. If you choose not to use it, that's your option but it is part of the game and you have the same access to it as I do.

To put it in a different perspective, its like joining a budybuilding competition for steroid users and complaing that they have an unfair advantage because you don't use steroids. The competition is created for steroid users!

 

One can argue that is precisely what happened, since GW1 did not have the gems-for-gold system, while they implemented it in GW2. 

This is not GW1. This is GW2. It's a different game and has to be approached differently.

 

So tell me: why did GW2 need to have a gems-for-gold system, while GW1 did not?

Why does WoW charge $25 for a flying horse and GW2 doesn't?

Arenanet is the one that was QQing about how subscription fees are unfair and unjustified. So yeah, they lost the privilige to use the "I am a company and I can do whatever I fucking want to maximize my profits". Arenanet chose to take the high road and given that basis, I ask again: Why did GW2 need to have a gems-for-gold system, while GW1 did not?

I think you misunderstand what QQing means. ArenaNet simply pointed out that subscription fees are not needed and are indeed nothing more than a cash grab. However,ANet is a company and they do want to maximize profits. They are trying to be gentlemen about it and instead of taking your money every month, they are giving you an option to buy something extra if you so choose.

On the other hand, ANet also realized that not everyone is able to purchase stuff from the cash shop, so they figured out a way to let people trade in-game gold for gems. See, gems-for-gold works both ways. A person with extra money can get gold but now a person with no money can get gems. And whereas in GW1 a person without money would be stuck with defaults, in GW2 he can purchase extra bank or character slots.

Everyone wins, my dear chap.

BizkitNL

So, instead of FINALLY getting to try out GW2, let's riot?

Yeah, right, lol.

Terrorizor

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by Terrorizor

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by Terrorizor

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by Terrorizor

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

Originally posted by Terrorizor

Originally posted by TwoThreeFour

(quotes)

unfortunately, I don't like the setup for bulleting, but I just tried to make the best of it that I could.

The "1" was a description of reasoning for their position.  The "2" was a potential solution, to resolve their complaint.

The group which you feel I forgot, is covered under the first group, and my solution for the first group was that everything available in the cash shop should also be available through time investment within the game.

 

While they share some people, there is a significant difference. there are people who have more money than time and still think that " if a person wants something in a game, they should play the game". Those particular people don't seem to be included in any of your groups. 

OK. I think we need to clarify this.  Are you saying that there should be a seperate group of people that feel that because they choose to play the game to earn the rewards, nobody else should have the right to pay for rewards instead of earning them through time effort?

It doesn't matter what they actually choose, what matters is what they think. Furthermore, while "If a person wants something in a game, they should play the game" excludes paying real money for rewards inside the game, it does not necessarely mean that the rewards should be earned through time effort. Being very intelligent or having another set of skills can be rewarded inside a game without actually requiring any significant time effort. 

Sorry, your statement  "it doesn't matter what they choose, what matters is what they think" needs context. I asked for clarification, not generalization.

When you say that rewards can be earned through skills instead of time effort, what exactly do you mean? Please give us a good accurate example.

When I said "It doesn't matter what they choose, what matter is what they think": I took into consideration multiple scenarios where you choose something that you really don't like because of other reasons. For instance, a person that normally loaths the item mall, may have a moment of weakness where they are just fed up with the grinding and for a moment decide to take the easy way out by opening their wallet.

 

As for rewards which were earned mostly by skill rather than time effort: rewards from different PvP contests where both sides have access to the same tools, different trivia contests where the answers are not googleble (your memory rather than time effort is mostly rewarded),  different forms of tests resembling IQ-tests, bosses which are difficult due to requiring the players to have great reflexes rather than gear, etc. 

Ok. so according to your clarification, this group of people feels that because they think that everybody should earn the rewards in game instead of being able to take the easy way out and buy the item at the cash shop.  This group of people would be effectively covered by the third group.

• 
  These people hold their own personal merit by how well they are recognized in a virtual (pretend) world.
  • 
    If they were not concerned about showing off their uber skills, why would they care about what anyone else does?

You seem to be stumbling on one particular concept. Just because you can gain rewards via the cash shop, does not imply that all rewards obtainable through gameplay will be available through the cash shop. The only factor of importance is that all cash shop rewards can be obtainable through gameplay as well.

It doesn't matter if cash shop is the "easy way" out, the standpoint is that "If a person wants something in a game, they should play the game". The statement does not take consideration to how much cash shop helps the person in question. 

Furthermore, they do not need to care about what other people think about them in the virtual world, which is why "These people hold their own personal merit by how well they are recognized in a virtual (pretend) world" doesn't work either to describe them. 

so if the person wants something in the game, and they can just play the game, why would they whine about the cash shop? Maybe I was wrong in placing your group within the third group. I'm really thinking they are part of the second group, just pretending to be something else.

And the solution for them stands. they should make their own game, and play it by themselves.