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Bioware announces layoffs

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  • WickedjellyWickedjelly Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 4,990
    Originally posted by Distopia

    That's true too, which Is why no matter the design or game, I'll never touch another MMO they produce. Like I said this is the difference between a MMO studio and a gaming Supermarket. Say what you will about any MMO studio, very few are going to let their games just wither and die in such a way (without attempting everything they can to turn it around). The same could be said for Sony (SOE).

    Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice.. well you get the picture

    I don't know. I got my enjoyment out of it. As I have said before I knew it was going to be short term for me due to the company running the project and the design of the game. I do feel for those that were layed off and those that planned on this being their new home but this isn't surprising to me at all. Not to sound like Teala...god I hope I don't.

    Anyways, things could get really bad here soon once MoP and GW2 comes out. I mean if they're already cutting like this...makes you wonder what will happen after those two launch. I will agree with you though I don't know why EA bothers. If these cuts mean updates launch at a considerably slower rate it really is going to suck for those that are still invested in this game and frankly will cause even more to unsub. Which when added to those already getting bored with the game and a couple mmos on the horizon could make for some incredibly ugly times ahead. Especially since for whatever reason they seem to expect a higher number of subbed players than a lot of other companies to make the game a worthwhile inverstment for them.

    1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.

    2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.

    3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Originally posted by grimfall

    I'm not saying you're wrong, as you're right if you're speaking in terms of the mentality at a corporation.  All I am really saying is it just shows we can't trust EA to do what is required to build and maintain a decent MMO.

    I think you and others may be reading a little much into that post.  You are inferring a whole lot, making it sound like they're reducing the staff to 7 guys and a temp.  Maybe that's the case, but at this point stating it as fact is wrongheaded.

    I'm looking at EA's track record in terms of giving proper support to MMO's. They allowed UO to completely stagnate, they cut all support to Earth and Beyond, then for the most part WAR, now it looks like they're doing it to TOR.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • MosesZDMosesZD Member UncommonPosts: 1,361
    Originally posted by cahenderson
    Originally posted by Greyhooff

    I hope it was the lead devs and managers at Bioware, and not the regular programmers and staff who get on with the work but don't make decisions.

    SWTOR is dead because of the bad decisions of the people at the top. The bosses at Bioware SWTOR do not deserve a paycheck, and yes, they deserve to be fired and never work in the industry again.

    Specifically, I hope the following were fired:

    Erickson

    Zoeller

    Ohlen

    Reid

    Campbell

    All their forum mods

     

    You forgot (Gabe) Amantangelo and (Dallas) Dickinson.

     

    I say good fucking riddance. God, I'd put baby's on spikes if I could be there to see specifically Georg Zoeller, James Ohlen and Gabe Amantangelo frog-marched out of the building by security.

     

    If they fired that lot, I'd resubscribe just to bump the numbers by one and indirectly help out the poor people left to clean that fracking mess up.   I think I could do a couple of months of pity-subbing.

  • ktanner3ktanner3 Member UncommonPosts: 4,063
    Originally posted by MosesZD
    Originally posted by ktanner3
    Originally posted by BadSpock
    Originally posted by Teala
    Originally posted by Anolev
    Originally posted by Teala
    Originally posted by Anolev

    Wow... way to focus on yourself, rather than the people affected by this layoff... true to form... 

    People are getting laid off all over.   I feel sorry for them all.  Not so much for the people that made SWTOR the game it became.  Not so much.

    So because they made a game that you didn't personally like, or made decisions that you personally don't agree with, they deserve to lose their jobs, their livelihoods, and now these human beings need to go home and tell their families that their lives have been rocked.

    Wow.


    Wow...I am sorry.    People make a  bad product.   They shouldn't be employed.   Sorry you see it differently.

    It seems there are currently enough people who don't think it is a bad product, as the game in whatever state it may be in is still up and running and surely enjoyed by those still paying for it.

    I am not one of them, but you need to work real hard to distance your opinion and personal bias towards this game and have some basic human compassion for those who have lost their jobs.

    I'm almost 100% positive very few decision makers lost their jobs, that's just the way this kind of thing works, and plenty of good people just trying to do their job well and do what they were told to do just lost their livelyhood, and due to the less than stellar success of the game they may also be at more of a disadvantage to find their next employment opportunity.

    I agree. There have been plenty of games I didn't like. I was really disappointed with STO. After a few months I left and never went back. Never wished ill will of anyone working for Cryptic. It just wasn't the game for me.  Why people decide to make gaming so personal is beyond me.

     

    Cryptic didn't troll me.    BioWare did.     Cryptic was embarrassed by its mistakes and tried to fix them.   BIoWare tells you  it's your fault, your computer's fault and go to hell you L2P noob...

     

     That isn't how I remembered my two months(launch)  in STO but whatever.

     I haven't seen Bioware attack anyone in the way you mentioned. Are you sure you're not confusing bioware with forum fanboys?

     

    Currently Playing: World of Warcraft

  • grimfallgrimfall Member UncommonPosts: 1,153
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by grimfall

    I'm not saying you're wrong, as you're right if you're speaking in terms of the mentality at a corporation.  All I am really saying is it just shows we can't trust EA to do what is required to build and maintain a decent MMO.

    I think you and others may be reading a little much into that post.  You are inferring a whole lot, making it sound like they're reducing the staff to 7 guys and a temp.  Maybe that's the case, but at this point stating it as fact is wrongheaded.

    I'm looking at EA's track record in terms of giving proper support to MMO's. They allowed UO to completely stagnate, they cut all support to Earth and Beyond, then for the most part WAR, now it looks like they're doing it to TOR.

    That's possible, but the bioware company has probably got a lot more influence at EA than any of those other single title developers.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Originally posted by Wickedjelly
    Originally posted by Distopia

    That's true too, which Is why no matter the design or game, I'll never touch another MMO they produce. Like I said this is the difference between a MMO studio and a gaming Supermarket. Say what you will about any MMO studio, very few are going to let their games just wither and die in such a way (without attempting everything they can to turn it around). The same could be said for Sony (SOE).

    Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice.. well you get the picture

    I don't know. I got my enjoyment out of it. As I have said before I knew it was going to be short term for me due to the company running the project and the design of the game. I do feel for those that were layed off and those that planned on this being their new home but this isn't surprising to me at all. Not to sound like Teala...god I hope I don't.

    Anyways, things could get really bad here soon once MoP and GW2 comes out. I mean if they're already cutting like this...makes you wonder what will happen after those two launch. I will agree with you though I don't know why EA bothers. If these cuts mean updates launch at a considerably slower rate it really is going to suck for those that are still invested in this game and frankly will couse even more to unsub. Which when added to those already getting bored with the game and a couple mmos on the horizon could make for some incredibly ugly times ahead.

    I did as well, and I also didn't look at it as a possible long term home, I only gave them the benefit of doubt because I had fun in beta. But I agree with pretty much all of this.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • UhwopUhwop Member UncommonPosts: 1,791
    Originally posted by grimfall

    I'm not saying you're wrong, as you're right if you're speaking in terms of the mentality at a corporation.  All I am really saying is it just shows we can't trust EA to do what is required to build and maintain a decent MMO.

    I think you and others may be reading a little much into that post.  You are inferring a whole lot, making it sound like they're reducing the staff to 7 guys and a temp.  Maybe that's the case, but at this point stating it as fact is wrongheaded.

    Also keep in mind that these staffs tend to grow as the game gets closer to launch.  It could be that they have 200% of the people they had 3 years ago still working on the game.

     Or you could draw a correlation between some of the comments made by EA and the announced layoffs and see that they really meant it when they said that ToR isn't a priority for development.

    EA said it, EA owns bioware, EA decides how much money bioware can spend on the game, and if EA says cut your payroll by X amount then BW has to do it.

    But yes, you're right, that also doesn't mean that they're laying off the magority of the staff.  Even single player games have release devs to who get paid to do updates, fixes, and DLC.  CoD isn't an MMO, but they still pay to run servers, and developers to create new content and fix bugs.

    It cost less to run an MMO then to make one, and it takes fewer people to keep one running and create new content then it takes for the initial release.  This is actually par for the course.

  • Grotar89Grotar89 Member UncommonPosts: 347
    Originally posted by grimfall

    I'm not saying you're wrong, as you're right if you're speaking in terms of the mentality at a corporation.  All I am really saying is it just shows we can't trust EA to do what is required to build and maintain a decent MMO.

    I think you and others may be reading a little much into that post.  You are inferring a whole lot, making it sound like they're reducing the staff to 7 guys and a temp.  Maybe that's the case, but at this point stating it as fact is wrongheaded.

    This is how it started with WAR, and i dont think WAR has 7 devs working on it now... Its EA....

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Originally posted by grimfall
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by grimfall

    I'm not saying you're wrong, as you're right if you're speaking in terms of the mentality at a corporation.  All I am really saying is it just shows we can't trust EA to do what is required to build and maintain a decent MMO.

    I think you and others may be reading a little much into that post.  You are inferring a whole lot, making it sound like they're reducing the staff to 7 guys and a temp.  Maybe that's the case, but at this point stating it as fact is wrongheaded.

    I'm looking at EA's track record in terms of giving proper support to MMO's. They allowed UO to completely stagnate, they cut all support to Earth and Beyond, then for the most part WAR, now it looks like they're doing it to TOR.

    That's possible, but the bioware company has probably got a lot more influence at EA than any of those other single title developers.

    That may be true..

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • UhwopUhwop Member UncommonPosts: 1,791
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by grimfall
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by grimfall

    I'm not saying you're wrong, as you're right if you're speaking in terms of the mentality at a corporation.  All I am really saying is it just shows we can't trust EA to do what is required to build and maintain a decent MMO.

    I think you and others may be reading a little much into that post.  You are inferring a whole lot, making it sound like they're reducing the staff to 7 guys and a temp.  Maybe that's the case, but at this point stating it as fact is wrongheaded.

    I'm looking at EA's track record in terms of giving proper support to MMO's. They allowed UO to completely stagnate, they cut all support to Earth and Beyond, then for the most part WAR, now it looks like they're doing it to TOR.

    That's possible, but the bioware company has probably got a lot more influence at EA than any of those other single title developers.

    That may be true..

     Except that's not possible with a publicly traded company. 

  • JoeyMMOJoeyMMO Member UncommonPosts: 1,326
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko

    I knew I wasn't imagining things...

     

    This quote from James Ohlsen in an old Gamasutra interview:

    "Unlike a lot of other game companies that, once they launch a game, downsize their teams radically, our plan is to keep the team together and continue to focus on building content."

     Here's the link for those that are interested (be warned, it's a loooong article): http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/134940/the_making_of_star_wars_the_old_.php?print=1

     Plans change.

    Hopefully they can "continue to focus on building content" with the now somewhat reduced team...

     Yep, plans change. Is anyone really surprised about this?

    imageimage
  • TardcoreTardcore Member Posts: 2,325

    Well while part of me wants to wade in and post the "Well . . . Bye" meme from Tombstone or the "1.7 Million" one, I'm not going to. I think I'll stick to the old handsaw of "If you can't say anything nice" and just wish these people better luck at their next workplace.

     

    image

    "Gypsies, tramps, and thieves, we were called by the Admin of the site . . . "

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Originally posted by Uhwop

     Except that's not possible with a publicly traded company. 

    What I meant is people may have a bit more faith in Bioware.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • SorrowSorrow Member Posts: 1,195

    Kinda sad they are only getting fired..

     

    In my fantasy world they release a bad game they are executed.. like natural selection kill off the bad devs, only the good devs breed.. eventually we have better devs!!

    image

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Originally posted by JoeyMMO
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko

    I knew I wasn't imagining things...

     

    This quote from James Ohlsen in an old Gamasutra interview:

    "Unlike a lot of other game companies that, once they launch a game, downsize their teams radically, our plan is to keep the team together and continue to focus on building content."

     Here's the link for those that are interested (be warned, it's a loooong article): http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/134940/the_making_of_star_wars_the_old_.php?print=1

     Plans change.

    Hopefully they can "continue to focus on building content" with the now somewhat reduced team...

     Yep, plans change. Is anyone really surprised about this?

    There's a difference between plans changing, and statements that prove to be full of hot air.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • Grotar89Grotar89 Member UncommonPosts: 347
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by Uhwop

     Except that's not possible with a publicly traded company. 

    What I meant is people may have a bit more faith in Bioware.

    In Bioware that made Baldurs gate, NWN and KOTOR i would have faith. Sadly that BW is long gone

    In Bioware that made DA2 and ME3 i wouldnt, BW is now just a bland name that EA tries to stck on every of their games so they could suck more money from customers.

    BiowareMythic, Bioware Austin, Bioware Victory games ( or whatever the one thats making generals 2 )

  • SorrowSorrow Member Posts: 1,195
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by JoeyMMO
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko

    I knew I wasn't imagining things...

     

    This quote from James Ohlsen in an old Gamasutra interview:

    "Unlike a lot of other game companies that, once they launch a game, downsize their teams radically, our plan is to keep the team together and continue to focus on building content."

     Here's the link for those that are interested (be warned, it's a loooong article): http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/134940/the_making_of_star_wars_the_old_.php?print=1

     Plans change.

    Hopefully they can "continue to focus on building content" with the now somewhat reduced team...

     Yep, plans change. Is anyone really surprised about this?

    There's a difference between plans changing, and statements that prove to be full of hot air.

    lol would be funny if one of the game devs laid off used this statement for a wrongful termination suit and won

    image

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Originally posted by Sorrow
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by JoeyMMO
    Originally posted by SpottyGekko

    I knew I wasn't imagining things...

     

    This quote from James Ohlsen in an old Gamasutra interview:

    "Unlike a lot of other game companies that, once they launch a game, downsize their teams radically, our plan is to keep the team together and continue to focus on building content."

     Here's the link for those that are interested (be warned, it's a loooong article): http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/134940/the_making_of_star_wars_the_old_.php?print=1

     Plans change.

    Hopefully they can "continue to focus on building content" with the now somewhat reduced team...

     Yep, plans change. Is anyone really surprised about this?

    There's a difference between plans changing, and statements that prove to be full of hot air.

    lol would be funny if one of the game devs laid off used this statement for a wrongful termination suit and won

    HAHA that would be fantastic

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • MosesZDMosesZD Member UncommonPosts: 1,361
    Originally posted by grimfall
    Originally posted by nyxium

    I wonder if Diablo 3 was a deciding factor in the layoffs? It's been noted that D3 has caused a slight noticable decline in WoW amongst other games at launch, from personal observations.

    No.  Businesses of the size of Bioware/EA don't make snap decisions on layoffs based on 4 days of game sales of a game that's not really a direct competitor.

     

    You're right, they don't.   They have models and, frankly, much better data because it's all in-house, first-party, 100% sample data.   But lots of us do have other data sources.   Sample data.  Multiple sources of trends.   And we could see this coming for months:

     

    1.   XFire log-ins dramatically down (approximately 20% exponential decay on a monthly basis).   One-sixth of what they were in early January.     Only 40% of what they were in mid-April.

     

    2.   Sales dropping through the floor.  Barely breaking 10K a week now.

     

    3.  Server utilization is now so bad that over half the servers no-longer leave 'light' status.   There are six fairly healthy servers in the North American market and they're dying too.   

     

    4.  Continuous failure to deliver on promises.

     

    5.  Lying about the health of the game.   Obvious lies, especailly out of the mouths of Ohlen and Erickson.

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Originally posted by Grotar89
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by Uhwop

     Except that's not possible with a publicly traded company. 

    What I meant is people may have a bit more faith in Bioware.

    In Bioware that made Baldurs gate, NWN and KOTOR i would have faith. Sadly that BW is long gone

    In Bioware that made DA2 and ME3 i wouldnt, BW is now just a bland name that EA tries to stck on every of their games so they could suck more money from customers.

    BiowareMythic, Bioware Austin, Bioware Victory games ( or whatever the one thats making generals 2 )

    Very true.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • MosesZDMosesZD Member UncommonPosts: 1,361
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by Uhwop

     Except that's not possible with a publicly traded company. 

    What I meant is people may have a bit more faith in Bioware.

     

    There is no 'BioWare.'   The company was bought for $860 million in cash and EA stock and it's part of EA now.    And after DA2, the ME3 ending and now SWTOR...  Why would anyone believe in BioWare?  

  • Blackwater56Blackwater56 Member Posts: 122

    The bell doth toll it seems

     

  • UhwopUhwop Member UncommonPosts: 1,791
    Originally posted by Distopia
    Originally posted by Uhwop

     Except that's not possible with a publicly traded company. 

    What I meant is people may have a bit more faith in Bioware.

     But that's not even close to what the guy you quoted was saying.

    BW has zero influence at EA.  EA is a publicly traded company that owns BW.  BW has as much influence with EA as any one of the janitors cleaning toilets for the company has. 

    And after ME3 and DA2, I find it hard to beleive that  people have any faith left in BW.  I mean, they gave away the cupcakes that the fans sent them.

     

  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen Member UncommonPosts: 2,483
    Originally posted by cahenderson
    Originally posted by Greyhooff

    I hope it was the lead devs and managers at Bioware, and not the regular programmers and staff who get on with the work but don't make decisions.

    SWTOR is dead because of the bad decisions of the people at the top. The bosses at Bioware SWTOR do not deserve a paycheck, and yes, they deserve to be fired and never work in the industry again.

    Specifically, I hope the following were fired:

    Erickson

    Zoeller

    Ohlen

    Reid

    Campbell

    All their forum mods

     

    You forgot (Gabe) Amantangelo and (Dallas) Dickinson.

     

    I say good riddance. God, I'd put baby's on spikes if I could be there to see specifically Georg Zoeller, James Ohlen and Gabe Amantangelo frog-marched out of the building by security.

    Frog marched, hehe. Got me giggling over that.

    Those you named should be the ones to go, not the poor suckers having to code and do what they're told only to get fired because they're just the grunts that work. All of those named were significant factors in helping the game fail. None would listen to testers about the issues, we knew people would have at release.

    image

    What happens when you log off your characters????.....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
    Dark Age of Camelot

  • Ice-QueenIce-Queen Member UncommonPosts: 2,483

    When it comes to the MMO community, EVERY statement is remembered especially when the future turns out to be the opposite of said statement. I still remember the dev claims of "lots of guys beating on one boss isn't very heroic."  If it turns out that no expansion or major xpacs happen, look for this guy's quote to be repeated over and over. Vindictivness is a big thing around these parts.

    Yah, I'll never forget the interview before Warhammer was released when Marc Jacobs said look at us a few months out, if we're merging, we're not doing well. Bit him in the toosh, because people came back to that comment when they were transfering and merging. Merges are never a good sign, no matter how they try to spin it.

    image

    What happens when you log off your characters????.....
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFQhfhnjYMk
    Dark Age of Camelot

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