I've been thinking and as an MMO vet, I can't think of another game where skill and ability to pay attention and react matter more than class.
Gear is still very important, and Lancers currently have a lockdown on tank so their class is important, but really, can anyone think of an MMO where skill and attention span and reaction time mattered so much? The difference between dps classes of equal gear is going to be very much mostly dependent on who's better and who plays better throughout the battle.
I think this is a great thing and should be touted loudly by fans as being a selling point.
No more waiting on the whim of the devs to be good at your job in the game, potentially waiting months and then suddenly becoming better than everyone else, only to suck again in a few months.
It's a side-effect of the targetting system, but still it's important to note.
Yes and we will start at the beginning before uber gear was part of MMO. EQ1, AC, Shadowbane. All games where gear had a minimal impact on your characters success. However, Tera is a gear game like WOW don't think otherwise.
Gear matters, but that's natural for an MMO I think. There should always be some way to improve your character otherwise why play it?
Last time I played WoW (awhile ago), you couldn't play a retribution paladin and be effective. A couple months after I left, they were suddenly the best dps class in the game and in pvp. I'm sure that's changed since then, probably multiple times. That has nothing to do with gear and everything to do with class.
haven't played wow in a very long time but last I checked you were not "stuck" as being a ret pally and could respec to a more pvp friendly spec and be comptetative.. still as a gear based skill only really matters once gear is equal, hence why pvp is more fun when everyone is on a level playing field imho. Why did people play CS for years on end or many FPS games back in the day before they added a variety of advancements.. people played for the fun of PVP. I used to be into the gear "carrot" treadmil type PVP but over the years it really has lost interest to me. For one you struggle your way up the ranks to get top gear then once at top its not much challenge unless you are playing other equally geared openents.. For me the even playing field with gear and then giving players other "benefits" such as new skills and such is a much better way to do PVP for me and glad some upcoming games are going this route
No, you weren't stuck playing a specific class, but my point is that in TERA your effectiveness in what you do is never tied to the whims of the devs. You will never go from worthless to godmode and back again, forcing people to reroll if they want to be effective.
It shoudln't be surprising since the skill required to play WoW is minimal, so they had to find some way to differentiate players.
"New skills" instead of gear can be just as overpowering, depending on the skills offered.
In TERA with its pretty limited number of classes and skills the dev's have a much easier time balancing than say a game life Rift with such a wide variety of choices a player can choose from skill wise. That doesn't mean though if a certain glyph combo on a class is too powerfull PVP wise it won't get nerfed of course this is going to happen and happens in all games. With TERA your choices are much more limited compared to other games(which is negative for me) but also makes it much easier to avoid the FOTM classes every patch... it's give or take but for me I prefer choices to keep me from getting bored and pigeon holed into a single role my classes entire playthrough. PVP in these games is mostly about "knowing the class you are fighting" TERA is little more twitch based than say wow but overall its really not much differn't.
Oh also I never found in my time in games like Rift ever being worthless there was always builds that were effective in PVP even when some classes combos may of been OP a bit you just got better and pushed forward.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
No, you weren't stuck playing a specific class, but my point is that in TERA your effectiveness in what you do is never tied to the whims of the devs. You will never go from worthless to godmode and back again, forcing people to reroll if they want to be effective.
Yeah
Tell that to hordes of warriors and then try to come back in one piece.
I've been thinking and as an MMO vet, I can't think of another game where skill and ability to pay attention and react matter more than class.
Gear is still very important, and Lancers currently have a lockdown on tank so their class is important, but really, can anyone think of an MMO where skill and attention span and reaction time mattered so much
Personally it's why i like GW2 so much because they don't HAVE a dependency on gear at all. That's when skill is really required. Oh and the reasons i don't like TERA are simple, quest hubs, gear treadmill, no collision, and no dodging. Just not for me. I can understand people's love for the combat system because it's slightly different then before, but I just am not interested since that seems to me to be the only redeeming quality of this title.
I've been thinking and as an MMO vet, I can't think of another game where skill and ability to pay attention and react matter more than class.
Gear is still very important, and Lancers currently have a lockdown on tank so their class is important, but really, can anyone think of an MMO where skill and attention span and reaction time mattered so much
Personally it's why i like GW2 so much because they don't HAVE a dependency on gear at all. That's when skill is really required. Oh and the reasons i don't like TERA are simple, quest hubs, gear treadmill, no collision, and no dodging. Just not for me. I can understand people's love for the combat system because it's slightly different then before, but I just am not interested since that seems to me to be the only redeeming quality of this title.
huh? Tera has both these its actually one of the main selling points in its combat aside from non tab targeting..
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Personally it's why i like GW2 so much because they don't HAVE a dependency on gear at all. That's when skill is really required.
So CoH was the penultimate skill based system?
No gear -at all- for the first four years of its existence (of course it also spent much of that time with no PvP, so did the chicken or the egg come first?).
Since Blizzard began using random loot drops (or fixed boss loot drops) as a carrot, we've seen a large number of players pronounce that without Gear, RPG games cannot exist. History maybe says otherwise.
In another ten years, no one will remember that a lootless system ever existed in a working commercial property.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
Every major MMO skill matters more than class. A skilled player doing a role their class was desgined for is always going to come out on top, given equal gear level. Maybe there are occasional extreme balance issues here and there, but those are rare.
Maybe the gap is smaller in TERA, but TERA also has a very small number of classes. Given how differently the different specs play, WoW essentially has 30 classes. EQ2 has 25. Rift has all its soul combos. TERA has 8 classes. It has the easiest balance job of any AAA title with the least amount of customization so it damn well better be the most balanced.
Every major MMO skill matters more than class. A skilled player doing a role their class was desgined for is always going to come out on top, given equal gear level. Maybe there are occasional extreme balance issues here and there, but those are rare.
Maybe the gap is smaller in TERA, but TERA also has a very small number of classes. Given how differently the different specs play, WoW essentially has 30 classes. EQ2 has 25. Rift has all its soul combos. TERA has 8 classes. It has the easiest balance job of any AAA title with the least amount of customization so it damn well better be the most balanced.
^ basically same thing I said.. it's mainly TERA's lack of options that makes balance easier but to me that does not make it better...
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
No, you weren't stuck playing a specific class, but my point is that in TERA your effectiveness in what you do is never tied to the whims of the devs. You will never go from worthless to godmode and back again, forcing people to reroll if they want to be effective.
Yeah
Tell that to hordes of warriors and then try to come back in one piece.
I have no problem killing warrior on my lancer lol, than again i always duel with one of the best warriors so i assume every warrior is like him get nervious just to find out wtf warrior is this easy XD? like everyone else in our guild lol, we all so paranoid fighitng warriors coz of him XD
I've been thinking and as an MMO vet, I can't think of another game where skill and ability to pay attention and react matter more than class.
Gear is still very important, and Lancers currently have a lockdown on tank so their class is important, but really, can anyone think of an MMO where skill and attention span and reaction time mattered so much
Personally it's why i like GW2 so much because they don't HAVE a dependency on gear at all. That's when skill is really required. Oh and the reasons i don't like TERA are simple, quest hubs, gear treadmill, no collision, and no dodging. Just not for me. I can understand people's love for the combat system because it's slightly different then before, but I just am not interested since that seems to me to be the only redeeming quality of this title.
wtf you talking about o.o Tera has better collision and dodging. Its what makes the combat even works.
Every major MMO skill matters more than class. A skilled player doing a role their class was desgined for is always going to come out on top, given equal gear level. Maybe there are occasional extreme balance issues here and there, but those are rare.
Maybe the gap is smaller in TERA, but TERA also has a very small number of classes. Given how differently the different specs play, WoW essentially has 30 classes. EQ2 has 25. Rift has all its soul combos. TERA has 8 classes. It has the easiest balance job of any AAA title with the least amount of customization so it damn well better be the most balanced.
Well, good thing they are then!
My experience in MMOs has differed. For example, playing an engineer for a couple months in Warhammer, I was always inferior to a bright wizard in almost every way. In Rift, one spec of rogues was originally OP, but then that got nerfed to hell and it was only recently, years later, that they are pretty competative. In FFXI, when I played, you could change your spec based on your subjob, but if you were a dragoon, you were always going to be considered subpar. All three of those games had different specs (especially rift of course), but all of the specs of each class were inferior to other classes that did the same job. Just recently in SWTOR people complained that certain classes were totally OP, and then a patch came and made them worthless. It's a pattern that goes back as long as I've been playing MMOs, so I hardly think it's a rare thing.
WoW was so long ago I can't really remember but I do know that certain dps classes would totally outdo others, and not in a rock paper scissors sort of way. Besides skill hardly comes into it with tab-targetting and set rotations.
Every major MMO skill matters more than class. A skilled player doing a role their class was desgined for is always going to come out on top, given equal gear level. Maybe there are occasional extreme balance issues here and there, but those are rare.
Maybe the gap is smaller in TERA, but TERA also has a very small number of classes. Given how differently the different specs play, WoW essentially has 30 classes. EQ2 has 25. Rift has all its soul combos. TERA has 8 classes. It has the easiest balance job of any AAA title with the least amount of customization so it damn well better be the most balanced.
^ basically same thing I said.. it's mainly TERA's lack of options that makes balance easier but to me that does not make it better...
Hey, listen, I'm sorry your purchace didn't work out for you, even though you said you just bought it on a lark because it was cheap.
But really don't you think your persistant negativity is getting a little out of hand in this forum?
Every major MMO skill matters more than class. A skilled player doing a role their class was desgined for is always going to come out on top, given equal gear level. Maybe there are occasional extreme balance issues here and there, but those are rare.
Maybe the gap is smaller in TERA, but TERA also has a very small number of classes. Given how differently the different specs play, WoW essentially has 30 classes. EQ2 has 25. Rift has all its soul combos. TERA has 8 classes. It has the easiest balance job of any AAA title with the least amount of customization so it damn well better be the most balanced.
^ basically same thing I said.. it's mainly TERA's lack of options that makes balance easier but to me that does not make it better...
Hey, listen, I'm sorry your purchace didn't work out for you, even though you said you just bought it on a lark because it was cheap.
But really don't you think your persistant negativity is getting a little out of hand in this forum?
how so ? I mention things I really like about the game all the time.. unlike other people who just hate on it or can't see anything wrong with it.. I give both sides and don't think there's any issue with that... sorry if negativity towards "your" game offends you
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I've been thinking and as an MMO vet, I can't think of another game where skill and ability to pay attention and react matter more than class.
Gear is still very important, and Lancers currently have a lockdown on tank so their class is important, but really, can anyone think of an MMO where skill and attention span and reaction time mattered so much
Personally it's why i like GW2 so much because they don't HAVE a dependency on gear at all. That's when skill is really required. Oh and the reasons i don't like TERA are simple, quest hubs, gear treadmill, no collision, and no dodging. Just not for me. I can understand people's love for the combat system because it's slightly different then before, but I just am not interested since that seems to me to be the only redeeming quality of this title.
wtf you talking about o.o Tera has better collision and dodging. Its what makes the combat even works.
Yeah just a big LOL on that one. It seems the GW2 horde have caught the scent of this thread. Don't forget blocking. No blocking in TERA either...
Besides skill hardly comes into it with tab-targetting and set rotations.
This single sentence invalidates anything you can possibly say in this argument.
The gap between an average player and a skilled player in WoW (or similar games) is enormous. The fact that they have 3 different difficulty levels for their raids illustrates that pretty nicely. And as for PvP, when do you get to stand there and put in a rotation on your opponent? Unless he is AFK, never. And while there may be tab targetting, most abilities have some kind of line of sight and PvP is contant motion and positioning.
One of the reasons why TERA gets a lot of negativity is because of completely asinine posts like this meant to make TERA players look impressive.
Besides skill hardly comes into it with tab-targetting and set rotations.
This single sentence invalidates anything you can possibly say in this argument.
The gap between an average player and a skilled player in WoW (or similar games) is enormous. The fact that they have 3 different difficulty levels for their raids illustrates that pretty nicely. And as for PvP, when do you get to stand there and put in a rotation on your opponent? Unless he is AFK, never. And while there may be tab targetting, most abilities have some kind of line of sight and PvP is contant motion and positioning.
One of the reasons why TERA gets a lot of negativity is because of completely asinine posts like this meant to make TERA players look impressive.
Well, I've played both and I guess I'll just have to disagree with you on the amount of skill required to play WoW effectively.
I just remember fazing out more often than not out of repetativeness in battles in WoW and ffxi and other games with tab targetting. It was kind of a relaxing feeling I suppose, but I do know you just can't do that in TERA. I refer you to an earlier post where a guy described being able to play WoW effectively while so drunk he couldn't stand and doing horribly under similar circumstances in TERA.
I suppose really it's more about testing your attention span than skill, but I think the two are related.
edit: Oh and re: the whole "just standing there thing", when I played WoW as a rogue that's exactly what most opponents would do as I stunlocked them to death. I'd like to chalk that up to being skillful, but clearly that was because my class was OP at the time.
Well, I've played both and I guess I'll just have to disagree with you on the amount of skill required to play WoW effectively.
I just remember fazing out more often than not out of repetativeness in battles in WoW and ffxi and other games with tab targetting. It was kind of a relaxing feeling I suppose, but I do know you just can't do that in TERA. I refer you to an earlier post where a guy described being able to play WoW effectively while so drunk he couldn't stand and doing horribly under similar circumstances in TERA.
I suppose really it's more about testing your attention span than skill, but I think the two are related.
edit: Oh and re: the whole "just standing there thing", when I played WoW as a rogue that's exactly what most opponents would do as I stunlocked them to death. I'd like to chalk that up to being skillful, but clearly that was because my class was OP at the time.
I dunno, I've played both, and the amount of skill required to be good at both games isn't as different as I see most players stating. The big difference is in TERA you are required to constantly adjust your looking to face your target, where as in WoW that is done for you to some degree. TERA's combat definitely does 'feel' better than WoW's, because it's more active, but it's not like TERA doesn't also have skill rotations.
Again, this notion that tab targetting somehow removes all skill I find kind of laughable. It's not like we are playing a FPS, and tab targetting is some kind of aim bot. Even in TERA you have skills that either home, or don't really need to be aimed very much to hit. The hit boxes are actually large enough that you can usually aim your cursor in the general direction of your target and still hit them provided they are in range.
The majority of the skill, when it comes to TERA, comes in positioning. Making sure you are at the right distance / flank of your opponent, etc. This varies class to class, but isn't something unique to TERA. WoW also had this type of skill as well.
- Don't get me wrong. I'm not stating that WoW is a hard game to play, because it's not. Having played both myself, I do think that a lot of people are overstating the amount of skill actually involved for a game like TERA. It's not like it's terribly difficult to keep your camera adjusted on your target in this game. Unless your disabled, of course. This does make the game feel more engaging though (which is why a lot of people enjoy it).
- Don't get me wrong. I'm not stating that WoW is a hard game to play
Its not a hard game to play on a basic level. To play on a high level it is though (look at how few guilds actually killed Heroic Ragnaros before nerfs). The gap between an average player and a highly skilled player in WoW is HUGE
Well, I've played both and I guess I'll just have to disagree with you on the amount of skill required to play WoW effectively.
I just remember fazing out more often than not out of repetativeness in battles in WoW and ffxi and other games with tab targetting. It was kind of a relaxing feeling I suppose, but I do know you just can't do that in TERA. I refer you to an earlier post where a guy described being able to play WoW effectively while so drunk he couldn't stand and doing horribly under similar circumstances in TERA.
I suppose really it's more about testing your attention span than skill, but I think the two are related.
edit: Oh and re: the whole "just standing there thing", when I played WoW as a rogue that's exactly what most opponents would do as I stunlocked them to death. I'd like to chalk that up to being skillful, but clearly that was because my class was OP at the time.
I dunno, I've played both, and the amount of skill required to be good at both games isn't as different as I see most players stating. The big difference is in TERA you are required to constantly adjust your looking to face your target, where as in WoW that is done for you to some degree. TERA's combat definitely does 'feel' better than WoW's, because it's more active, but it's not like TERA doesn't also have skill rotations.
Again, this notion that tab targetting somehow removes all skill I find kind of laughable. It's not like we are playing a FPS, and tab targetting is some kind of aim bot. Even in TERA you have skills that either home, or don't really need to be aimed very much to hit. The hit boxes are actually large enough that you can usually aim your cursor in the general direction of your target and still hit them provided they are in range.
The majority of the skill, when it comes to TERA, comes in positioning. Making sure you are at the right distance / flank of your opponent, etc. This varies class to class, but isn't something unique to TERA. WoW also had this type of skill as well.
- Don't get me wrong. I'm not stating that WoW is a hard game to play, because it's not. Having played both myself, I do think that a lot of people are overstating the amount of skill actually involved for a game like TERA. It's not like it's terribly difficult to keep your camera adjusted on your target in this game. Unless your disabled, of course. This does make the game feel more engaging though (which is why a lot of people enjoy it).
i agree with this and also you gotta consider PVE vs PVP.. I feel in TERA pve does require you in most cases to pay a little more attention then most tab target MMOs. PVP is another story though and both require skill to be good. When playing against another person it doesn't matter what sort of targeting or combat system is used the person who is better at it and knows the game better generally will always win assuming equal gear/level
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
- Don't get me wrong. I'm not stating that WoW is a hard game to play, because it's not. Having played both myself, I do think that a lot of people are overstating the amount of skill actually involved for a game like TERA. It's not like it's terribly difficult to keep your camera adjusted on your target in this game. Unless your disabled, of course. This does make the game feel more engaging though (which is why a lot of people enjoy it)
Honestly, it really depends, for example the new instance temple of temerity requires certain players to solo BAMs within a three minute time period and this is where skill shows.
You'll get someone who can kill the BAM in 2 minutes without getting hit, then you'll have a person be unable to kill it in time or someone who straight up dies.
It can be really upsetting, i've also seen videos of people solo'ing the level 58 labyrinth of terror dungeon on hardmode as well as someone solo the level 60 dungeon fane of kaprima on normal.
The hardest endgame instance is called Kelsaik nest, nobody in NA has completed it on hardmode yet, or at least that's what I think because nobody has any videos of it. Yet in Korea there was one 3man party who managed to do it.
I don't think you could solo a level 85 dungeon in WoW no matter how good you are.
Well, I've played both and I guess I'll just have to disagree with you on the amount of skill required to play WoW effectively.
I just remember fazing out more often than not out of repetativeness in battles in WoW and ffxi and other games with tab targetting. It was kind of a relaxing feeling I suppose, but I do know you just can't do that in TERA. I refer you to an earlier post where a guy described being able to play WoW effectively while so drunk he couldn't stand and doing horribly under similar circumstances in TERA.
I suppose really it's more about testing your attention span than skill, but I think the two are related.
edit: Oh and re: the whole "just standing there thing", when I played WoW as a rogue that's exactly what most opponents would do as I stunlocked them to death. I'd like to chalk that up to being skillful, but clearly that was because my class was OP at the time.
I dunno, I've played both, and the amount of skill required to be good at both games isn't as different as I see most players stating. The big difference is in TERA you are required to constantly adjust your looking to face your target, where as in WoW that is done for you to some degree. TERA's combat definitely does 'feel' better than WoW's, because it's more active, but it's not like TERA doesn't also have skill rotations.
Again, this notion that tab targetting somehow removes all skill I find kind of laughable. It's not like we are playing a FPS, and tab targetting is some kind of aim bot. Even in TERA you have skills that either home, or don't really need to be aimed very much to hit. The hit boxes are actually large enough that you can usually aim your cursor in the general direction of your target and still hit them provided they are in range.
The majority of the skill, when it comes to TERA, comes in positioning. Making sure you are at the right distance / flank of your opponent, etc. This varies class to class, but isn't something unique to TERA. WoW also had this type of skill as well.
- Don't get me wrong. I'm not stating that WoW is a hard game to play, because it's not. Having played both myself, I do think that a lot of people are overstating the amount of skill actually involved for a game like TERA. It's not like it's terribly difficult to keep your camera adjusted on your target in this game. Unless your disabled, of course. This does make the game feel more engaging though (which is why a lot of people enjoy it).
You're leaving out active blocking and dodging, as well as the fact that the mobs move both defensively and sometimes irradically, in TERA.
I'm not saying that the skill required to play TERA is beyond what a normal person should be able to do, I'm just saying the combat is certainly more complex, but more importantly to the thread, the way you handle the combat matters more than your class.
Unless things have changed greatly since I left WoW, the fotm class will still outdo the class that has fallen out of favor, almost regardless of skill level, just like every other themepark.
Comments
In TERA with its pretty limited number of classes and skills the dev's have a much easier time balancing than say a game life Rift with such a wide variety of choices a player can choose from skill wise. That doesn't mean though if a certain glyph combo on a class is too powerfull PVP wise it won't get nerfed of course this is going to happen and happens in all games. With TERA your choices are much more limited compared to other games(which is negative for me) but also makes it much easier to avoid the FOTM classes every patch... it's give or take but for me I prefer choices to keep me from getting bored and pigeon holed into a single role my classes entire playthrough. PVP in these games is mostly about "knowing the class you are fighting" TERA is little more twitch based than say wow but overall its really not much differn't.
Oh also I never found in my time in games like Rift ever being worthless there was always builds that were effective in PVP even when some classes combos may of been OP a bit you just got better and pushed forward.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Yeah
Tell that to hordes of warriors and then try to come back in one piece.
I think Everquest was the first themepark where skilled matter more then class or level.
I have seen Warriors solo group content
I have personally soloed raid content with my Necromancer
It was one of the only themepark game were you could function without a "Perfect" Group.
Sooner or Later
Personally it's why i like GW2 so much because they don't HAVE a dependency on gear at all. That's when skill is really required. Oh and the reasons i don't like TERA are simple, quest hubs, gear treadmill, no collision, and no dodging. Just not for me. I can understand people's love for the combat system because it's slightly different then before, but I just am not interested since that seems to me to be the only redeeming quality of this title.
huh? Tera has both these its actually one of the main selling points in its combat aside from non tab targeting..
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
So CoH was the penultimate skill based system?
No gear -at all- for the first four years of its existence (of course it also spent much of that time with no PvP, so did the chicken or the egg come first?).
Since Blizzard began using random loot drops (or fixed boss loot drops) as a carrot, we've seen a large number of players pronounce that without Gear, RPG games cannot exist. History maybe says otherwise.
In another ten years, no one will remember that a lootless system ever existed in a working commercial property.
Self-pity imprisons us in the walls of our own self-absorption. The whole world shrinks down to the size of our problem, and the more we dwell on it, the smaller we are and the larger the problem seems to grow.
This is a silly thread.
Every major MMO skill matters more than class. A skilled player doing a role their class was desgined for is always going to come out on top, given equal gear level. Maybe there are occasional extreme balance issues here and there, but those are rare.
Maybe the gap is smaller in TERA, but TERA also has a very small number of classes. Given how differently the different specs play, WoW essentially has 30 classes. EQ2 has 25. Rift has all its soul combos. TERA has 8 classes. It has the easiest balance job of any AAA title with the least amount of customization so it damn well better be the most balanced.
You are one TERA's biggest supporters, yet you dont even play (or follow) the game?
You mean level based? EQ was not a themepark (nor a sandbox).
^ basically same thing I said.. it's mainly TERA's lack of options that makes balance easier but to me that does not make it better...
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
I have no problem killing warrior on my lancer lol, than again i always duel with one of the best warriors so i assume every warrior is like him get nervious just to find out wtf warrior is this easy XD? like everyone else in our guild lol, we all so paranoid fighitng warriors coz of him XD
wtf you talking about o.o Tera has better collision and dodging. Its what makes the combat even works.
Well, good thing they are then!
My experience in MMOs has differed. For example, playing an engineer for a couple months in Warhammer, I was always inferior to a bright wizard in almost every way. In Rift, one spec of rogues was originally OP, but then that got nerfed to hell and it was only recently, years later, that they are pretty competative. In FFXI, when I played, you could change your spec based on your subjob, but if you were a dragoon, you were always going to be considered subpar. All three of those games had different specs (especially rift of course), but all of the specs of each class were inferior to other classes that did the same job. Just recently in SWTOR people complained that certain classes were totally OP, and then a patch came and made them worthless. It's a pattern that goes back as long as I've been playing MMOs, so I hardly think it's a rare thing.
WoW was so long ago I can't really remember but I do know that certain dps classes would totally outdo others, and not in a rock paper scissors sort of way. Besides skill hardly comes into it with tab-targetting and set rotations.
Hey, listen, I'm sorry your purchace didn't work out for you, even though you said you just bought it on a lark because it was cheap.
But really don't you think your persistant negativity is getting a little out of hand in this forum?
how so ? I mention things I really like about the game all the time.. unlike other people who just hate on it or can't see anything wrong with it.. I give both sides and don't think there's any issue with that... sorry if negativity towards "your" game offends you
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Yeah just a big LOL on that one. It seems the GW2 horde have caught the scent of this thread. Don't forget blocking. No blocking in TERA either...
This single sentence invalidates anything you can possibly say in this argument.
The gap between an average player and a skilled player in WoW (or similar games) is enormous. The fact that they have 3 different difficulty levels for their raids illustrates that pretty nicely. And as for PvP, when do you get to stand there and put in a rotation on your opponent? Unless he is AFK, never. And while there may be tab targetting, most abilities have some kind of line of sight and PvP is contant motion and positioning.
One of the reasons why TERA gets a lot of negativity is because of completely asinine posts like this meant to make TERA players look impressive.
Well, I've played both and I guess I'll just have to disagree with you on the amount of skill required to play WoW effectively.
I just remember fazing out more often than not out of repetativeness in battles in WoW and ffxi and other games with tab targetting. It was kind of a relaxing feeling I suppose, but I do know you just can't do that in TERA. I refer you to an earlier post where a guy described being able to play WoW effectively while so drunk he couldn't stand and doing horribly under similar circumstances in TERA.
I suppose really it's more about testing your attention span than skill, but I think the two are related.
edit: Oh and re: the whole "just standing there thing", when I played WoW as a rogue that's exactly what most opponents would do as I stunlocked them to death. I'd like to chalk that up to being skillful, but clearly that was because my class was OP at the time.
I dunno, I've played both, and the amount of skill required to be good at both games isn't as different as I see most players stating. The big difference is in TERA you are required to constantly adjust your looking to face your target, where as in WoW that is done for you to some degree. TERA's combat definitely does 'feel' better than WoW's, because it's more active, but it's not like TERA doesn't also have skill rotations.
Again, this notion that tab targetting somehow removes all skill I find kind of laughable. It's not like we are playing a FPS, and tab targetting is some kind of aim bot. Even in TERA you have skills that either home, or don't really need to be aimed very much to hit. The hit boxes are actually large enough that you can usually aim your cursor in the general direction of your target and still hit them provided they are in range.
The majority of the skill, when it comes to TERA, comes in positioning. Making sure you are at the right distance / flank of your opponent, etc. This varies class to class, but isn't something unique to TERA. WoW also had this type of skill as well.
- Don't get me wrong. I'm not stating that WoW is a hard game to play, because it's not. Having played both myself, I do think that a lot of people are overstating the amount of skill actually involved for a game like TERA. It's not like it's terribly difficult to keep your camera adjusted on your target in this game. Unless your disabled, of course. This does make the game feel more engaging though (which is why a lot of people enjoy it).
Its not a hard game to play on a basic level. To play on a high level it is though (look at how few guilds actually killed Heroic Ragnaros before nerfs). The gap between an average player and a highly skilled player in WoW is HUGE
As did I.
Although AC was not a themepark.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
i agree with this and also you gotta consider PVE vs PVP.. I feel in TERA pve does require you in most cases to pay a little more attention then most tab target MMOs. PVP is another story though and both require skill to be good. When playing against another person it doesn't matter what sort of targeting or combat system is used the person who is better at it and knows the game better generally will always win assuming equal gear/level
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Honestly, it really depends, for example the new instance temple of temerity requires certain players to solo BAMs within a three minute time period and this is where skill shows.
You'll get someone who can kill the BAM in 2 minutes without getting hit, then you'll have a person be unable to kill it in time or someone who straight up dies.
It can be really upsetting, i've also seen videos of people solo'ing the level 58 labyrinth of terror dungeon on hardmode as well as someone solo the level 60 dungeon fane of kaprima on normal.
The hardest endgame instance is called Kelsaik nest, nobody in NA has completed it on hardmode yet, or at least that's what I think because nobody has any videos of it. Yet in Korea there was one 3man party who managed to do it.
I don't think you could solo a level 85 dungeon in WoW no matter how good you are.
Really good DKs can solo several Cata dungeons, they are the only class that has the mitigation plus the healing to pull it off though
You're leaving out active blocking and dodging, as well as the fact that the mobs move both defensively and sometimes irradically, in TERA.
I'm not saying that the skill required to play TERA is beyond what a normal person should be able to do, I'm just saying the combat is certainly more complex, but more importantly to the thread, the way you handle the combat matters more than your class.
Unless things have changed greatly since I left WoW, the fotm class will still outdo the class that has fallen out of favor, almost regardless of skill level, just like every other themepark.