When I first heard this game would have hundrends of skills to choose from, I knew it would just be trouble as many skils will have to be homogenized with others.
- you run into a zombies infested place, the zombies are running to you as if they had pushed the "turbo mode" button and are glued on your body no matter how you move, biting you 24/7 till they are dead.
- No dodging possible, not a possibility to put them away since they are too fast and are glued on your body as if they were your second skin.
I saw a TSW dev commenting on this and said that just moving and active dodging made you live 33% longer than just standing there. The mobs does continous attacks if you stand still, but get forced into the movement animation if you move. You can't backpedal though, you need to circle strafe.
Hi!
I know that you can strafe and circle around.
My problem with it was that even the basic zombies were THAT fast that no matter how you moved, they kept been glued on your body, barely did damage while you were taking them out one after another.
If they managed to take your hp down (some stronger ones) you simply healed with a item before you took them down again while they were repeating their same attack animation over and over while you had no chance to take some distance by rolling or jumping back or to the side.
In my opinion they could fix the issue by either adding proper dodging/jumping/rolling into the game (make it more action based like in the RE Series as example) OR at least make these zombies slower than the player cause their speed is ridicoulos.
When I get attacked by "turbo zombies" that barely do damage and are glued on my body no matter how I move, it just destroys this feeling and drops the quality of the game down to nothingness and that's a bad thing.
Even enemies that should be faster than the player like birds or dogs shouldn't just rush and get glued on one but rather attack, step back and rush attack again.
If they indeed "stuck" on the player, then a proper animation should be included in which shows that a dog has bitten and holds a part of your clothing or body and give you the opportunity to hit it away, roll back (or similar action) before it makes it back to you again.
Same with the zombies after they reached someone.
Such details would improve the overall quality of the game and richen the whole experience for everyone.
It just bothers me the most because the game has a wonderful atmosphere/environment in which properly designed enemies and combat mechanics could give you a really great horror adventure feeling and add a lot of fun into the game.
It would be a huge shame if they won't bother to improve such things.
The combat isn't any worse than WoW/SWTOR/GW2/RIFT/LOTRO.
I've said this in enough threads, but it is, imo, worse than WoW/RIFT's (I wouldn't describe TOR's as any different, but it didn't execute that well and I only played it on one beta weekend).
A big thing for me is the number of abilities. I think the only major flaw in TSW's combat is the limit on abilities. If you had 7 things that could be part of your rotation, and 3-7 that were cooldowns, it might be significantly more fun (for me, and some others, but not everyone).
I feel like there's always an optimal opener and optimal closer, and I feel like most fights have me spamming those two buttons.
If I came up on two tough mobs, I would go at them with my shotgun/chaos like this..
Kneecapper,
Builder*5,
Shotgun AOE Fnisher,
Chaos ST Finisher,
Builder*5,
Shotgun AOE Finisher,
Chaos ST Finisher,
-mob dies here, or very low on health (might need to finish it off rq, maybe with aoe finisher on the other mob),
Builder*5 (depending on how it took to kill the other mob.
Shotgun ST Finisher
Chaos ST Finisher
Both enemies are probably dead
If I'm fighting more than 2, I use AOE builder.
Fights RARELY last the 20s to use Kneecapper twice.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
- you run into a zombies infested place, the zombies are running to you as if they had pushed the "turbo mode" button and are glued on your body no matter how you move, biting you 24/7 till they are dead.
- No dodging possible, not a possibility to put them away since they are too fast and are glued on your body as if they were your second skin.
I saw a TSW dev commenting on this and said that just moving and active dodging made you live 33% longer than just standing there. The mobs does continous attacks if you stand still, but get forced into the movement animation if you move. You can't backpedal though, you need to circle strafe.
Hi!
I know that you can strafe and circle around.
My problem with it was that even the basic zombies were THAT fast that no matter how you moved, they kept been glued on your body, barely did damage while you were taking them out one after another.
If they managed to take your hp down (some stronger ones) you simply healed with a item before you took them down again while they were repeating their same attack animation over and over while you had no chance to take some distance by rolling or jumping back or to the side.
In my opinion they could fix the issue by either adding proper dodging/jumping/rolling into the game (make it more action based like in the RE Series as example) OR at least make these zombies slower than the player cause their speed is ridicoulos.
When I get attacked by "turbo zombies" that barely do damage and are glued on my body no matter how I move, it just destroys this feeling and drops the quality of the game down to nothingness and that's a bad thing.
Even enemies that should be faster than the player like birds or dogs shouldn't just rush and get glued on one but rather attack, step back and rush attack again.
If they indeed "stuck" on the player, then a proper animation should be included in which shows that a dog has bitten and holds a part of your clothing or body and give you the opportunity to hit it away, roll back (or similar action) before it makes it back to you again.
Same with the zombies after they reached someone.
Such details would improve the overall quality of the game and richen the whole experience for everyone.
It just bothers me the most because the game has a wonderful atmosphere/environment in which properly designed enemies and combat mechanics could give you a really great horror adventure feeling and add a lot of fun into the game.
It would be a huge shame if they won't bother to improve such things.
I agree with all of this. Right now the combat is just poor, and it is the biggest factor in why the game will die after a couple of months, once people have consumed the story content.
Funcom needs to delay release and overhaul the entire combat system both from a PVE perspective and a PVP perspective to make the game actually fun to play in itself.
Otheriwse, it'll just be another dead MMO to add to the ever-increasing pile and none of us want that.
Most of the opponents I’m fighting are CB testers with QL10 FATE gear (4k+ HP). I’m wearing QL10 greens as well.
So you had 6900 hp and virtually everyone you fought had about 4000hp and your conclusion is that you were in equivalent gear. Seriously?????
And your conclusion, the combat is borked, rather than you out geared your opposition? Again seriously???
LOLZ.
It has been pointed out already by others in this thread that you were fighting Ql3-Ql5 geared people. Yes this does mean that gear matters in PvP, how unusual, and unexpected. /sarcasm
Every match I've encountered so far in TSW, I've pretty much known the outcome before it even started. 'Count number of enemies', 'Look at enemy's health, look at his weapons', all that's left is to press the buttons. I can't say this at all about any poker game I've ever played.
Notice something lacking from your assessment?
You aren't considering skill at all.
That says a considerable amount about the game.
I mean, counterclasses (counterspecs here) happen. But if you're correct, then you're rock and your enemy is scissors or paper.
I left that out of my assessment, because I didn't need to know how skilled the player was. Their skill basically meant the difference between whether or not I ended a fight w/ most of my HP, or wounded. Either way, I had a self-heal to take care of that.
Hell, I'm not even the only one w/ this experience. There have been a number of videos / livestreams posted that all show the same thing. There just aren't enough counters, you know what your build is good at, and what it isn't. You can generally tell what another person is running by their health / weapons (or even kit, since your appearance changes depending on what you Q up as). A low damage spec is going to suck against a good healer, so unless you can down his HP pool in a few hits, you can't win it. A high damage spec can eat a healer alive np, as well as another DPS, but if they find a tank w/ more than double their HP, it's going to be a very tough fight. etc. You can try a more balanced spec as well, which might make it harder for you to determine the outcome of a fight, but generally I've found these don't do that well in this game's PvP.
And ya, it does say a lot about the combat =/
My apologies then. I took it as you were supporting the combat and saying that "if you understand the combat, and (assume) most people do not, you'll win".
I wish they'd chosen an action combat. TSW with fun combat would kill a lot of mmo's that are sputtering along. It might even seriously hurt that one.. Um... "Whoa" or "Woo" whatsitcalled.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
- you run into a zombies infested place, the zombies are running to you as if they had pushed the "turbo mode" button and are glued on your body no matter how you move, biting you 24/7 till they are dead.
- No dodging possible, not a possibility to put them away since they are too fast and are glued on your body as if they were your second skin.
I saw a TSW dev commenting on this and said that just moving and active dodging made you live 33% longer than just standing there. The mobs does continous attacks if you stand still, but get forced into the movement animation if you move. You can't backpedal though, you need to circle strafe.
Hi!
I know that you can strafe and circle around.
My problem with it was that even the basic zombies were THAT fast that no matter how you moved, they kept been glued on your body, barely did damage while you were taking them out one after another.
If they managed to take your hp down (some stronger ones) you simply healed with a item before you took them down again while they were repeating their same attack animation over and over while you had no chance to take some distance by rolling or jumping back or to the side.
In my opinion they could fix the issue by either adding proper dodging/jumping/rolling into the game (make it more action based like in the RE Series as example) OR at least make these zombies slower than the player cause their speed is ridicoulos.
When I get attacked by "turbo zombies" that barely do damage and are glued on my body no matter how I move, it just destroys this feeling and drops the quality of the game down to nothingness and that's a bad thing.
Even enemies that should be faster than the player like birds or dogs shouldn't just rush and get glued on one but rather attack, step back and rush attack again.
If they indeed "stuck" on the player, then a proper animation should be included in which shows that a dog has bitten and holds a part of your clothing or body and give you the opportunity to hit it away, roll back (or similar action) before it makes it back to you again.
Same with the zombies after they reached someone.
Such details would improve the overall quality of the game and richen the whole experience for everyone.
It just bothers me the most because the game has a wonderful atmosphere/environment in which properly designed enemies and combat mechanics could give you a really great horror adventure feeling and add a lot of fun into the game.
It would be a huge shame if they won't bother to improve such things.
I agree with all of this. Right now the combat is just poor, and it is the biggest factor in why the game will die after a couple of months, once people have consumed the story content.
Funcom needs to delay release and overhaul the entire combat system both from a PVE perspective and a PVP perspective to make the game actually fun to play in itself.
Otheriwse, it'll just be another dead MMO to add to the ever-increasing pile and none of us want that.
Shenanigans, Still mad that SWTOR is a flop? If you think the combat is any worse than any mmo that has come out, you'd be mistaken. Bad combat? lol, people's posts are excluding quite a bit of "IMO", thus being spoken as fact. The fact is: why would you play a game if one of its big mechanics such as combat is broken?
If this is an attempt to ward of the WoW crowd, then by all means: The combat is broken. *wink* *wink* *nudge* nudge*
The combat isn't any worse than WoW/SWTOR/GW2/RIFT/LOTRO.
I've said this in enough threads, but it is, imo, worse than WoW/RIFT's (I wouldn't describe TOR's as any different, but it didn't execute that well and I only played it on one beta weekend).
A big thing for me is the number of abilities. I think the only major flaw in TSW's combat is the limit on abilities. If you had 7 things that could be part of your rotation, and 3-7 that were cooldowns, it might be significantly more fun (for me, and some others, but not everyone).
I feel like there's always an optimal opener and optimal closer, and I feel like most fights have me spamming those two buttons.
If I came up on two tough mobs, I would go at them with my shotgun/chaos like this..
Kneecapper,
Builder*5,
Shotgun AOE Fnisher,
Chaos ST Finisher,
Builder*5,
Shotgun AOE Finisher,
Chaos ST Finisher,
-mob dies here, or very low on health (might need to finish it off rq, maybe with aoe finisher on the other mob),
Builder*5 (depending on how it took to kill the other mob.
Shotgun ST Finisher
Chaos ST Finisher
Both enemies are probably dead
If I'm fighting more than 2, I use AOE builder.
Fights RARELY last the 20s to use Kneecapper twice.
I assume you didn't go very far into the game based on the above. There are fights in Blue Mountains where if you pull out an AoE that early in your rotation you will be dead.
Kingsmouth, on the other hand, yeah you may as well blow mobs away with your AoEs.
The combat isn't any worse than WoW/SWTOR/GW2/RIFT/LOTRO.
I've said this in enough threads, but it is, imo, worse than WoW/RIFT's (I wouldn't describe TOR's as any different, but it didn't execute that well and I only played it on one beta weekend).
A big thing for me is the number of abilities. I think the only major flaw in TSW's combat is the limit on abilities. If you had 7 things that could be part of your rotation, and 3-7 that were cooldowns, it might be significantly more fun (for me, and some others, but not everyone).
I feel like there's always an optimal opener and optimal closer, and I feel like most fights have me spamming those two buttons.
If I came up on two tough mobs, I would go at them with my shotgun/chaos like this..
[..]
If I'm fighting more than 2, I use AOE builder.
Fights RARELY last the 20s to use Kneecapper twice.
I assume you didn't go very far into the game based on the above. There are fights in Blue Mountains where if you pull out an AoE that early in your rotation you will be dead.
Kingsmouth, on the other hand, yeah you may as well blow mobs away with your AoEs.
I made it about halfway through Blue Mountain.
Most of the dangerous areas have small 'adds' (mobs close enough to agro) that are the "agro problem". They die very quickly. Yes, sometimes I became overwhelmed and was forced to run, and sometimes I did die, but most times I made it, if barely.
Situaltional awareness goes a long way, in any game.
I did switch builders as needed, but with care, it's not usually needed.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug. 12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
I'm more....dissapointed that other things aren't in the game then with combat. player housing for one., non combat things to do. craft system is ok. The repopulation is making what craft should be in games!
There are housing for cabals.
To TS, you would be an easy pick in PvP so hope you continue your 2 button smashing
As for combat, early on I thought GW2 had better but it soon changed after getting some more skills, and hundreds of more choises then GW2, needless to say I canseled my GW2 game. TSW combat is much more fun and complex for my part atleast (the fun part, the complex part is for everyone). Seems like lots of the GW2 fanboys are there because of GW1, and tbh someone that have played GW1 and calling other games bad I cant take seriously. I played loads off mmos, GW1 is the worst ive ever tried, its even worse then Rune of Magic (I didnt think it was possible till I tried it)
I agree with all of this. Right now the combat is just poor, and it is the biggest factor in why the game will die after a couple of months, once people have consumed the story content.
Funcom needs to delay release and overhaul the entire combat system both from a PVE perspective and a PVP perspective to make the game actually fun to play in itself.
Otheriwse, it'll just be another dead MMO to add to the ever-increasing pile and none of us want that.
Shenanigans, Still mad that SWTOR is a flop? If you think the combat is any worse than any mmo that has come out, you'd be mistaken. Bad combat? lol, people's posts are excluding quite a bit of "IMO", thus being spoken as fact. The fact is: why would you play a game if one of its big mechanics such as combat is broken?
If this is an attempt to ward of the WoW crowd, then by all means: The combat is broken. *wink* *wink* *nudge* nudge*
erm... I'm not mad.
You, on the other hand, sound very mad.
Remember: flag-waving, angry fanboyism will always lose to cool-headed analysis.
Lmfao, Not in the least bit biased are you? I'm not mad, I enjoy a good debate. But if you think your opinion is cool-headed and unbiased, and in the least bit analytical, you would be mistaken.
I agree with all of this. Right now the combat is just poor, and it is the biggest factor in why the game will die after a couple of months, once people have consumed the story content.
Funcom needs to delay release and overhaul the entire combat system both from a PVE perspective and a PVP perspective to make the game actually fun to play in itself.
Otheriwse, it'll just be another dead MMO to add to the ever-increasing pile and none of us want that.
Shenanigans, Still mad that SWTOR is a flop? If you think the combat is any worse than any mmo that has come out, you'd be mistaken. Bad combat? lol, people's posts are excluding quite a bit of "IMO", thus being spoken as fact. The fact is: why would you play a game if one of its big mechanics such as combat is broken?
If this is an attempt to ward of the WoW crowd, then by all means: The combat is broken. *wink* *wink* *nudge* nudge*
erm... I'm not mad.
You, on the other hand, sound very mad.
Remember: flag-waving, angry fanboyism will always lose to cool-headed analysis.
Lmfao, Not in the least bit biased are you? I'm not mad, I enjoy a good debate. But if you think your opinion is cool-headed and unbiased, and in the least bit analytical, you would be mistaken.
Wait, how am I biased? Which game am I championing here? I used to play Tera and SWTOR, and WoW and Warhammer and AOC and... well the list goes on. I don't champion any of those games.
No, I'm just criticising things that need criticising without championing or hating.
I will be playing TSW, but I won't be fanboying it. Because fanboying is biased.
I agree with all of this. Right now the combat is just poor, and it is the biggest factor in why the game will die after a couple of months, once people have consumed the story content.
Funcom needs to delay release and overhaul the entire combat system both from a PVE perspective and a PVP perspective to make the game actually fun to play in itself.
Otheriwse, it'll just be another dead MMO to add to the ever-increasing pile and none of us want that.
Shenanigans, Still mad that SWTOR is a flop? If you think the combat is any worse than any mmo that has come out, you'd be mistaken. Bad combat? lol, people's posts are excluding quite a bit of "IMO", thus being spoken as fact. The fact is: why would you play a game if one of its big mechanics such as combat is broken?
If this is an attempt to ward of the WoW crowd, then by all means: The combat is broken. *wink* *wink* *nudge* nudge*
erm... I'm not mad.
You, on the other hand, sound very mad.
Remember: flag-waving, angry fanboyism will always lose to cool-headed analysis.
Lmfao, Not in the least bit biased are you? I'm not mad, I enjoy a good debate. But if you think your opinion is cool-headed and unbiased, and in the least bit analytical, you would be mistaken.
Wait, how am I biased? Which game am I championing here? I used to play Tera and SWTOR, and WoW and Warhammer and AOC and... well the list goes on. I don't champion any of those games.
No, I'm just criticising things that need criticising without championing or hating.
I will be playing TSW, but I won't be fanboying it. Because fanboying is biased.
What about you?
I'll edit my other post saying you wern't playing, thought I saw that somewhere my bad. I'm not saying that TSW is going to be the MMOJesus, no such game will exist. It has its faults. I hope the content will keep me for a while, and it will suck if the cash shop boils down to P2W. I don't like the CC, or lack of open world PvP. But, there must be a reason for constant criticism. What do you like about the game? Valid question, because I can't honestly find a post from you with anything positive to say.
I'm more....dissapointed that other things aren't in the game then with combat. player housing for one., non combat things to do. craft system is ok. The repopulation is making what craft should be in games!
There are housing for cabals.
To TS, you would be an easy pick in PvP so hope you continue your 2 button smashing
As for combat, early on I thought GW2 had better but it soon changed after getting some more skills, and hundreds of more choises then GW2, needless to say I canseled my GW2 game. TSW combat is much more fun and complex for my part atleast (the fun part, the complex part is for everyone). Seems like lots of the GW2 fanboys are there because of GW1, and tbh someone that have played GW1 and calling other games bad I cant take seriously. I played loads off mmos, GW1 is the worst ive ever tried, its even worse then Rune of Magic (I didnt think it was possible till I tried it)
Looks like you didn't read the rest of the thread at all, and just came and dropped your biased zero-facts opinion.
Joined last month, 10 posts total, why are marketing departments so lazy.
Yes, since your post is packed with facts. Most of it is personal opinions and your right, just like mine is. So what if I joined last month? I finaly found an mmo worth talking about online. Im not working in/at the company making this game, im working at an gas reffinary if you wanna know (which you probably wont). And Im only gonna post on TSW part of the forums as its that game thats in my interest now. Im not like loads of other trolls going to forums of games they havent even tested to flame it. Why would I have an interest of f.ex going to GW2 forums and say this game is better? People can make theyr own choises (some can atleast).
But people comming here complaining about combat, when 30+ mmos ive played dont have better, some have similar (with less choises). I just find strange.
I'm more....dissapointed that other things aren't in the game then with combat. player housing for one., non combat things to do. craft system is ok. The repopulation is making what craft should be in games!
There are housing for cabals.
To TS, you would be an easy pick in PvP so hope you continue your 2 button smashing
As for combat, early on I thought GW2 had better but it soon changed after getting some more skills, and hundreds of more choises then GW2, needless to say I canseled my GW2 game. TSW combat is much more fun and complex for my part atleast (the fun part, the complex part is for everyone). Seems like lots of the GW2 fanboys are there because of GW1, and tbh someone that have played GW1 and calling other games bad I cant take seriously. I played loads off mmos, GW1 is the worst ive ever tried, its even worse then Rune of Magic (I didnt think it was possible till I tried it)
Looks like you didn't read the rest of the thread at all, and just came and dropped your biased zero-facts opinion.
Joined last month, 10 posts total, why are marketing departments so lazy.
Yes, since your post is packed with facts. Most of it is personal opinions and your right, just like mine is. So what if I joined last month? I finaly found an mmo worth talking about online. Im not working in/at the company making this game, im working at an gas reffinary if you wanna know (which you probably wont). And Im only gonna post on TSW part of the forums as its that game thats in my interest now. Im not like loads of other trolls going to forums of games they havent even tested to flame it. Why would I have an interest of f.ex going to GW2 forums and say this game is better? People can make theyr own choises (some can atleast).
But people comming here complaining about combat, when 30+ mmos ive played dont have better, some have similar (with less choises). I just find strange.
If you had read the rest of the thread, you would realise why I posed several times explaining in great detail why:
- The talent/skills system in TSW is no different from that of WoW or SWTOR
- The lack of ability slots restricts players more than those other games
- Combat mechanics, hit boxes etc are sluggish and controls are unresponsive
All of which amount to one thing: combat is the worst part of TSW, it is worse than all other MMOs out there including SWTOR and ironically AOC.
Feel free to read up on those posts, this is coming from someone who has been playing MMOs for years in detail and at the highest levels of both in-game competence and out-of-game theorycraft.
Then come back and say -why- you think TSW combat is better, even though it gives you less active ability options, the buff/debuff/CC system is poor and simplistic, the team synergies are weak, the animations are imprecise, the controls are fluffy and the metagame is basic and lacking in depth.
I'm more....dissapointed that other things aren't in the game then with combat. player housing for one., non combat things to do. craft system is ok. The repopulation is making what craft should be in games!
There are housing for cabals.
To TS, you would be an easy pick in PvP so hope you continue your 2 button smashing
As for combat, early on I thought GW2 had better but it soon changed after getting some more skills, and hundreds of more choises then GW2, needless to say I canseled my GW2 game. TSW combat is much more fun and complex for my part atleast (the fun part, the complex part is for everyone). Seems like lots of the GW2 fanboys are there because of GW1, and tbh someone that have played GW1 and calling other games bad I cant take seriously. I played loads off mmos, GW1 is the worst ive ever tried, its even worse then Rune of Magic (I didnt think it was possible till I tried it)
Looks like you didn't read the rest of the thread at all, and just came and dropped your biased zero-facts opinion.
Joined last month, 10 posts total, why are marketing departments so lazy.
Yes, since your post is packed with facts. Most of it is personal opinions and your right, just like mine is. So what if I joined last month? I finaly found an mmo worth talking about online. Im not working in/at the company making this game, im working at an gas reffinary if you wanna know (which you probably wont). And Im only gonna post on TSW part of the forums as its that game thats in my interest now. Im not like loads of other trolls going to forums of games they havent even tested to flame it. Why would I have an interest of f.ex going to GW2 forums and say this game is better? People can make theyr own choises (some can atleast).
But people comming here complaining about combat, when 30+ mmos ive played dont have better, some have similar (with less choises). I just find strange.
If you had read the rest of the thread, you would realise why I posed several times explaining in great detail why:
- The talent/skills system in TSW is no different from that of WoW or SWTOR
- The lack of ability slots restricts players more than those other games
- Combat mechanics, hit boxes etc are sluggish and controls are unresponsive
All of which amount to one thing: combat is the worst part of TSW, it is worse than all other MMOs out there including SWTOR and ironically AOC.
Feel free to read up on those posts, this is coming from someone who has been playing MMOs for years in detail and at the highest levels of both in-game competence and out-of-game theorycraft.
Then come back and say -why- you think TSW combat is better, even though it gives you less active ability options, the buff/debuff/CC system is poor and simplistic, the team synergies are weak, the animations are imprecise, the controls are fluffy and the metagame is basic and lacking in depth.
Don't you realise that not everyone needs to play at the highest level or theorycraft everything?
Can't you tell that the guy you are responding to is just a guy wanting to play and enjoy a game, once again your post is highly condescending.
Ive read em, but I dont aggre. You have no facts again, only personal opinions.
Ive lvled a toon and tried some raids in AoC, but I didnt like it. One of the reasons beeing combat was so poorly. And one of the reasons i love TSW is the combat. The skill wheel is nothing like wow or rift or lotro f.ex You have much more choises and can be alot more unique. Ive played TSW for 50+ hours in closed beta and the fighting there is much more fun then the other games I just mentioned. Again a personal opinion, another personal opinion: People thinking AoC combat is better then TSW combat are strange.
Ive read em, but I dont aggre. You have no facts again, only personal opinions.
Ive lvled a toon and tried some raids in AoC, but I didnt like it. One of the reasons beeing combat was so poorly. And one of the reasons i love TSW is the combat. The skill wheel is nothing like wow or rift or lotro f.ex You have much more choises and can be alot more unique. Ive played TSW for 50+ hours in closed beta and the fighting there is much more fun then the other games I just mentioned. Again a personal opinion, another personal opinion: People thinking AoC combat is better then TSW combat are strange.
Why is the skill wheel different than say talent trees?
How about I represent the wheel like a talent tree:
PISTOLS ---------------------------- HAMMERS
A B A B
PISTOL T2 --------------------------- HAMMER T2
A B C D E F A B C D E F
Now tell me again, how is that different from a talent tree? And since you can only take 7 abilities at a time, how is that more choices? If I let you choose 20 abilities of 100, vs 2 abilities out of 1000, which would you prefer? Which would make for better gameplay in a hotbar-based MMO where your gameplay is pushing those abilities?
Oh wait, you're saying you find TSW more fun. Well that's like, your opinion man.
Don't you realise that not everyone needs to play at the highest level or theorycraft everything?
Can't you tell that the guy you are responding to is just a guy wanting to play and enjoy a game, once again your post is highly condescending.
I think an elephant is bigger than the moon because the moon looks small to me, and telling me otherwise is condescending.
I don't need to operate with knowledge of science or whatever, I need to be allowed to be wrong so I can just enjoy life.
You clearly don't know what condescending means if you are using an analogy like that.
You are not going to convince these people no matter how hard you try, you have done the maths and you have played the game extensively. These people generally have not done this, they haven't crunched any numbers, they see the game from a "is it fun to play" perspective whereas you see it from a "this game is too simple because I have used maths and theorycrafting to work this out" perspective.
Ive read em, but I dont aggre. You have no facts again, only personal opinions.
Ive lvled a toon and tried some raids in AoC, but I didnt like it. One of the reasons beeing combat was so poorly. And one of the reasons i love TSW is the combat. The skill wheel is nothing like wow or rift or lotro f.ex You have much more choises and can be alot more unique. Ive played TSW for 50+ hours in closed beta and the fighting there is much more fun then the other games I just mentioned. Again a personal opinion, another personal opinion: People thinking AoC combat is better then TSW combat are strange.
Why is the skill wheel different than say talent trees?
How about I represent the wheel like a talent tree:
PISTOLS ---------------------------- HAMMERS
A B A B
PISTOL T2 --------------------------- HAMMER T2
A B C D E F A B C D E F
Now tell me again, how is that different from a talent tree? And since you can only take 7 abilities at a time, how is that more choices? If I let you choose 20 abilities of 100, vs 2 abilities out of 1000, which would you prefer? Which would make for better gameplay in a hotbar-based MMO where your gameplay is pushing those abilities?
Oh wait, you're saying you find TSW more fun. Well that's like, your opinion man.
The difference is that you can mix and match what weapons, abilities, states, and types of damage you want to use/do. This is something that talent trees don't let you do.
Ive read em, but I dont aggre. You have no facts again, only personal opinions.
Ive lvled a toon and tried some raids in AoC, but I didnt like it. One of the reasons beeing combat was so poorly. And one of the reasons i love TSW is the combat. The skill wheel is nothing like wow or rift or lotro f.ex You have much more choises and can be alot more unique. Ive played TSW for 50+ hours in closed beta and the fighting there is much more fun then the other games I just mentioned. Again a personal opinion, another personal opinion: People thinking AoC combat is better then TSW combat are strange.
Why is the skill wheel different than say talent trees?
How about I represent the wheel like a talent tree:
PISTOLS ---------------------------- HAMMERS
A B A B
PISTOL T2 --------------------------- HAMMER T2
A B C D E F A B C D E F
Now tell me again, how is that different from a talent tree? And since you can only take 7 abilities at a time, how is that more choices? If I let you choose 20 abilities of 100, vs 2 abilities out of 1000, which would you prefer? Which would make for better gameplay in a hotbar-based MMO where your gameplay is pushing those abilities?
Oh wait, you're saying you find TSW more fun. Well that's like, your opinion man.
Ofc it has the same base, but its still not the same, because of the choises. Of the options you giving me I would take the first options. But if I had the coise of 20 abi of 100,vs 7 abi of 500 I would go for the second choise, of course. And it would also give me the best gameplay, instead of making macros and have me UI filled with skills I might use.
Ye im having much more fun playing TSWbeta then playing WoW, lotro, AoC, SWtor, Aion, GW, GW2beta, DCuo, Allods, RoM, AO, EQ, EQ2 and so on (to long list). And thats what matters in a game isnt it? One of the biggest reason is the skill wheel and combat, you can make some good and very playable specc at later stages. As your saying, same bacis as a talent tree but still so different.
Let me ask you one question just as stupid as the one you did. If you had a choise of taking 20 skills of 25 vs 2 skills of 1000, which one would have most choises?
Ive read em, but I dont aggre. You have no facts again, only personal opinions.
Ive lvled a toon and tried some raids in AoC, but I didnt like it. One of the reasons beeing combat was so poorly. And one of the reasons i love TSW is the combat. The skill wheel is nothing like wow or rift or lotro f.ex You have much more choises and can be alot more unique. Ive played TSW for 50+ hours in closed beta and the fighting there is much more fun then the other games I just mentioned. Again a personal opinion, another personal opinion: People thinking AoC combat is better then TSW combat are strange.
Why is the skill wheel different than say talent trees?
How about I represent the wheel like a talent tree:
PISTOLS ---------------------------- HAMMERS
A B A B
PISTOL T2 --------------------------- HAMMER T2
A B C D E F A B C D E F
Now tell me again, how is that different from a talent tree? And since you can only take 7 abilities at a time, how is that more choices? If I let you choose 20 abilities of 100, vs 2 abilities out of 1000, which would you prefer? Which would make for better gameplay in a hotbar-based MMO where your gameplay is pushing those abilities?
Oh wait, you're saying you find TSW more fun. Well that's like, your opinion man.
The difference is that you can mix and match what weapons, abilities, states, and types of damage you want to use/do. This is something that talent trees don't let you do.
Yeah it's obvious you haven't read the posts properly and then there's not much point explaining things over and over.
Slickshoes, my apologies, you're right.
A lot of people here are too busy fawning over the new shiny to actually try to understand the rather simplistic systems behind the cosmetic fluff.
After the honeymoon period is over a month or two after release, they might understand better by reading what others have written.
Comments
Thank you OP for the excellent post and video.
When I first heard this game would have hundrends of skills to choose from, I knew it would just be trouble as many skils will have to be homogenized with others.
The combat isn't any worse than WoW/SWTOR/GW2/RIFT/LOTRO.
Hi!
I know that you can strafe and circle around.
My problem with it was that even the basic zombies were THAT fast that no matter how you moved, they kept been glued on your body, barely did damage while you were taking them out one after another.
If they managed to take your hp down (some stronger ones) you simply healed with a item before you took them down again while they were repeating their same attack animation over and over while you had no chance to take some distance by rolling or jumping back or to the side.
In my opinion they could fix the issue by either adding proper dodging/jumping/rolling into the game (make it more action based like in the RE Series as example) OR at least make these zombies slower than the player cause their speed is ridicoulos.
When I get attacked by "turbo zombies" that barely do damage and are glued on my body no matter how I move, it just destroys this feeling and drops the quality of the game down to nothingness and that's a bad thing.
Even enemies that should be faster than the player like birds or dogs shouldn't just rush and get glued on one but rather attack, step back and rush attack again.
If they indeed "stuck" on the player, then a proper animation should be included in which shows that a dog has bitten and holds a part of your clothing or body and give you the opportunity to hit it away, roll back (or similar action) before it makes it back to you again.
Same with the zombies after they reached someone.
Such details would improve the overall quality of the game and richen the whole experience for everyone.
It just bothers me the most because the game has a wonderful atmosphere/environment in which properly designed enemies and combat mechanics could give you a really great horror adventure feeling and add a lot of fun into the game.
It would be a huge shame if they won't bother to improve such things.
I've said this in enough threads, but it is, imo, worse than WoW/RIFT's (I wouldn't describe TOR's as any different, but it didn't execute that well and I only played it on one beta weekend).
A big thing for me is the number of abilities. I think the only major flaw in TSW's combat is the limit on abilities. If you had 7 things that could be part of your rotation, and 3-7 that were cooldowns, it might be significantly more fun (for me, and some others, but not everyone).
I feel like there's always an optimal opener and optimal closer, and I feel like most fights have me spamming those two buttons.
If I came up on two tough mobs, I would go at them with my shotgun/chaos like this..
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
I agree with all of this. Right now the combat is just poor, and it is the biggest factor in why the game will die after a couple of months, once people have consumed the story content.
Funcom needs to delay release and overhaul the entire combat system both from a PVE perspective and a PVP perspective to make the game actually fun to play in itself.
Otheriwse, it'll just be another dead MMO to add to the ever-increasing pile and none of us want that.
So you had 6900 hp and virtually everyone you fought had about 4000hp and your conclusion is that you were in equivalent gear. Seriously?????
And your conclusion, the combat is borked, rather than you out geared your opposition? Again seriously???
LOLZ.
It has been pointed out already by others in this thread that you were fighting Ql3-Ql5 geared people. Yes this does mean that gear matters in PvP, how unusual, and unexpected. /sarcasm
/close thread
My apologies then. I took it as you were supporting the combat and saying that "if you understand the combat, and (assume) most people do not, you'll win".
I wish they'd chosen an action combat. TSW with fun combat would kill a lot of mmo's that are sputtering along. It might even seriously hurt that one.. Um... "Whoa" or "Woo" whatsitcalled.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
Shenanigans, Still mad that SWTOR is a flop? If you think the combat is any worse than any mmo that has come out, you'd be mistaken. Bad combat? lol, people's posts are excluding quite a bit of "IMO", thus being spoken as fact. The fact is: why would you play a game if one of its big mechanics such as combat is broken?
If this is an attempt to ward of the WoW crowd, then by all means: The combat is broken. *wink* *wink* *nudge* nudge*
I assume you didn't go very far into the game based on the above. There are fights in Blue Mountains where if you pull out an AoE that early in your rotation you will be dead.
Kingsmouth, on the other hand, yeah you may as well blow mobs away with your AoEs.
I made it about halfway through Blue Mountain.
Most of the dangerous areas have small 'adds' (mobs close enough to agro) that are the "agro problem". They die very quickly. Yes, sometimes I became overwhelmed and was forced to run, and sometimes I did die, but most times I made it, if barely.
Situaltional awareness goes a long way, in any game.
I did switch builders as needed, but with care, it's not usually needed.
Spec'ing properly is a gateway drug.
12 Million People have been meter spammed in heroics.
There are housing for cabals.
To TS, you would be an easy pick in PvP so hope you continue your 2 button smashing
As for combat, early on I thought GW2 had better but it soon changed after getting some more skills, and hundreds of more choises then GW2, needless to say I canseled my GW2 game. TSW combat is much more fun and complex for my part atleast (the fun part, the complex part is for everyone). Seems like lots of the GW2 fanboys are there because of GW1, and tbh someone that have played GW1 and calling other games bad I cant take seriously. I played loads off mmos, GW1 is the worst ive ever tried, its even worse then Rune of Magic (I didnt think it was possible till I tried it)
Nope, its better
(and pretty similar to GW2)
Lmfao, Not in the least bit biased are you? I'm not mad, I enjoy a good debate. But if you think your opinion is cool-headed and unbiased, and in the least bit analytical, you would be mistaken.
Wait, how am I biased? Which game am I championing here? I used to play Tera and SWTOR, and WoW and Warhammer and AOC and... well the list goes on. I don't champion any of those games.
No, I'm just criticising things that need criticising without championing or hating.
I will be playing TSW, but I won't be fanboying it. Because fanboying is biased.
What about you?
I'll edit my other post saying you wern't playing, thought I saw that somewhere my bad. I'm not saying that TSW is going to be the MMOJesus, no such game will exist. It has its faults. I hope the content will keep me for a while, and it will suck if the cash shop boils down to P2W. I don't like the CC, or lack of open world PvP. But, there must be a reason for constant criticism. What do you like about the game? Valid question, because I can't honestly find a post from you with anything positive to say.
Yes, since your post is packed with facts. Most of it is personal opinions and your right, just like mine is. So what if I joined last month? I finaly found an mmo worth talking about online. Im not working in/at the company making this game, im working at an gas reffinary if you wanna know (which you probably wont). And Im only gonna post on TSW part of the forums as its that game thats in my interest now. Im not like loads of other trolls going to forums of games they havent even tested to flame it. Why would I have an interest of f.ex going to GW2 forums and say this game is better? People can make theyr own choises (some can atleast).
But people comming here complaining about combat, when 30+ mmos ive played dont have better, some have similar (with less choises). I just find strange.
If you had read the rest of the thread, you would realise why I posed several times explaining in great detail why:
- The talent/skills system in TSW is no different from that of WoW or SWTOR
- The lack of ability slots restricts players more than those other games
- Combat mechanics, hit boxes etc are sluggish and controls are unresponsive
All of which amount to one thing: combat is the worst part of TSW, it is worse than all other MMOs out there including SWTOR and ironically AOC.
Feel free to read up on those posts, this is coming from someone who has been playing MMOs for years in detail and at the highest levels of both in-game competence and out-of-game theorycraft.
Then come back and say -why- you think TSW combat is better, even though it gives you less active ability options, the buff/debuff/CC system is poor and simplistic, the team synergies are weak, the animations are imprecise, the controls are fluffy and the metagame is basic and lacking in depth.
Don't you realise that not everyone needs to play at the highest level or theorycraft everything?
Can't you tell that the guy you are responding to is just a guy wanting to play and enjoy a game, once again your post is highly condescending.
I think an elephant is bigger than the moon because the moon looks small to me, and telling me otherwise is condescending.
I don't need to operate with knowledge of science or whatever, I need to be allowed to be wrong so I can just enjoy life.
Ive read em, but I dont aggre. You have no facts again, only personal opinions.
Ive lvled a toon and tried some raids in AoC, but I didnt like it. One of the reasons beeing combat was so poorly. And one of the reasons i love TSW is the combat. The skill wheel is nothing like wow or rift or lotro f.ex You have much more choises and can be alot more unique. Ive played TSW for 50+ hours in closed beta and the fighting there is much more fun then the other games I just mentioned. Again a personal opinion, another personal opinion: People thinking AoC combat is better then TSW combat are strange.
Why is the skill wheel different than say talent trees?
How about I represent the wheel like a talent tree:
PISTOLS ---------------------------- HAMMERS
A B A B
PISTOL T2 --------------------------- HAMMER T2
A B C D E F A B C D E F
Now tell me again, how is that different from a talent tree? And since you can only take 7 abilities at a time, how is that more choices? If I let you choose 20 abilities of 100, vs 2 abilities out of 1000, which would you prefer? Which would make for better gameplay in a hotbar-based MMO where your gameplay is pushing those abilities?
Oh wait, you're saying you find TSW more fun. Well that's like, your opinion man.
You clearly don't know what condescending means if you are using an analogy like that.
You are not going to convince these people no matter how hard you try, you have done the maths and you have played the game extensively. These people generally have not done this, they haven't crunched any numbers, they see the game from a "is it fun to play" perspective whereas you see it from a "this game is too simple because I have used maths and theorycrafting to work this out" perspective.
The difference is that you can mix and match what weapons, abilities, states, and types of damage you want to use/do. This is something that talent trees don't let you do.
Ofc it has the same base, but its still not the same, because of the choises. Of the options you giving me I would take the first options. But if I had the coise of 20 abi of 100,vs 7 abi of 500 I would go for the second choise, of course. And it would also give me the best gameplay, instead of making macros and have me UI filled with skills I might use.
Ye im having much more fun playing TSWbeta then playing WoW, lotro, AoC, SWtor, Aion, GW, GW2beta, DCuo, Allods, RoM, AO, EQ, EQ2 and so on (to long list). And thats what matters in a game isnt it? One of the biggest reason is the skill wheel and combat, you can make some good and very playable specc at later stages. As your saying, same bacis as a talent tree but still so different.
Let me ask you one question just as stupid as the one you did. If you had a choise of taking 20 skills of 25 vs 2 skills of 1000, which one would have most choises?
Yeah it's obvious you haven't read the posts properly and then there's not much point explaining things over and over.
Slickshoes, my apologies, you're right.
A lot of people here are too busy fawning over the new shiny to actually try to understand the rather simplistic systems behind the cosmetic fluff.
After the honeymoon period is over a month or two after release, they might understand better by reading what others have written.