I still can't see why they want to be here and not in the "real" PvP games with "real" button mashing and "real" 30 keybinds and everything, things that take "real" skill. Probably they're having their asses handed to them by the real e-sport clans in the real e-sport games.
Newsflash - we don't want you here, go there please, play WoW Arena or StarCraft2 or LoL or whatever takes skill for you. Stop saying that our game is crap, but you'll still play it, It does not make sense and obviously it does not look good in your "intelligent, thinking" players CV's. Playing it just to "pwn nubz and show them nubz i'm right" shows a lot of things about your maturity also. Prove us wrong. Prove us that you respect yourselves and your ideas and leave.
If you notice those games you listed and others that get picked up for MLG and other tournys have Both pro players that can pawn everyone else AND millions of players. The reason is solid game mechanics, an easy to pick up yet hard to master learning curve.
I face guys I watch play on Tourny streams all the time online in various games, sometimes I win sometimes I lose but I am at a high enough skill ranking to face them. They just practice more and know the game much better than most players.
You need them because they know the game so well, if the game isn't good from both a technical and fun perspective they leave. For some reason games don't have to be popular to attract those players, just good, well polished, with solid mechanics.
I don't want ranking, high tier PvP, ruthless PvE to be the focus in TSW. Yes they should exist but focusing the game towards them would be a mistake. I've did that for a few good years, i'm bored to the teeth. There are literally tens of games like these on the market. I don't want this new, interesting, different and fun for many title to be "leet-kidz" oriented also. I also don't want them in my games. The game is how it is. Changing it to turn it into something else because someone likes e-sports is not a good idea and will turn away lots of fans. The main perks of TSW are exactly in being different from anything else: setting, story etc. I've posted those games especially to ask why do this kind of players (i respect them as i respect any other human being) do not go towards those titles and come here trying to change the approach to this title instead, to make it "more fun" for them.
I can see where your coming from but honestly what will be left to do in the game if they didn't have any of things you stated? All that creates progression and without progression it might as well be a SPG that you play for a 100 hours or so than move on. The most hours I ever put into a SPG game was a fraction of a fraction of what I have poured into a progression based MMO. Without progression of some form there is no holding power.
That is your opinion, the games I spent most hours in other than my years in WoW were The Matrix Online and SWG which had none of the type of progression you are talking about, the game worlds were great, the people were awesome, we had some great fun, logging in to the game was a pleasure, logging in to WoW for my raids felt like a job.
The combat and overall metagame of GW2 is indeed more complex and deeper than TSW (we're discussing it on teamspeak now) - but then too, so is WoW's.
TSW is very simplistic and limited [mod edit]
I will still play it for the story and setting, and no doubt we'll do some team PVP and faceroll the slow players in stonehenge and fusang - you'll see 3-4 team-optimal builds appearing in PVP videos a week or two after release.
And by 3-4 builds total, that includes tanking and healing builds.
The combat and overall metagame of GW2 is indeed more complex and deeper than TSW (we're discussing it on teamspeak now) - but then too, so is WoW's.
TSW is very simplistic and limited, just seems because it's new all the slow people haven't understood it yet.
I will still play it for the story and setting, and no doubt we'll do some team PVP and faceroll the slow players in stonehenge and fusang - you'll see 3-4 team-optimal builds appearing in PVP videos a week or two after release.
And by 3-4 builds total, that includes tanking and healing builds.
Or maybe people didn't play it to death in beta because they want to enjoy the game they have purchased for a while when it releases?
[mod edit] If the combat in TSW is not to your liking then don't play it. I am not a fan of the combat but its not the deciding factor on whether I play the game or not.
I still can't see why they want to be here and not in the "real" PvP games with "real" button mashing and "real" 30 keybinds and everything, things that take "real" skill. Probably they're having their asses handed to them by the real e-sport clans in the real e-sport games.
Newsflash - we don't want you here, go there please, play WoW Arena or StarCraft2 or LoL or whatever takes skill for you. Stop saying that our game is crap, but you'll still play it, It does not make sense and obviously it does not look good in your "intelligent, thinking" players CV's. Playing it just to "pwn nubz and show them nubz i'm right" shows a lot of things about your maturity also. Prove us wrong. Prove us that you respect yourselves and your ideas and leave.
If you notice those games you listed and others that get picked up for MLG and other tournys have Both pro players that can pawn everyone else AND millions of players. The reason is solid game mechanics, an easy to pick up yet hard to master learning curve.
I face guys I watch play on Tourny streams all the time online in various games, sometimes I win sometimes I lose but I am at a high enough skill ranking to face them. They just practice more and know the game much better than most players.
You need them because they know the game so well, if the game isn't good from both a technical and fun perspective they leave. For some reason games don't have to be popular to attract those players, just good, well polished, with solid mechanics.
I don't want ranking, high tier PvP, ruthless PvE to be the focus in TSW. Yes they should exist but focusing the game towards them would be a mistake. I've did that for a few good years, i'm bored to the teeth. There are literally tens of games like these on the market. I don't want this new, interesting, different and fun for many title to be "leet-kidz" oriented also. I also don't want them in my games. The game is how it is. Changing it to turn it into something else because someone likes e-sports is not a good idea and will turn away lots of fans. The main perks of TSW are exactly in being different from anything else: setting, story etc. I've posted those games especially to ask why do this kind of players (i respect them as i respect any other human being) do not go towards those titles and come here trying to change the approach to this title instead, to make it "more fun" for them.
I can see where your coming from but honestly what will be left to do in the game if they didn't have any of things you stated? All that creates progression and without progression it might as well be a SPG that you play for a 100 hours or so than move on. The most hours I ever put into a SPG game was a fraction of a fraction of what I have poured into a progression based MMO. Without progression of some form there is no holding power.
That is your opinion, the games I spent most hours in other than my years in WoW were The Matrix Online and SWG which had none of the type of progression you are talking about, the game worlds were great, the people were awesome, we had some great fun, logging in to the game was a pleasure, logging in to WoW for my raids felt like a job.
Doesn't you choice in examples kind of prove my point?
The combat and overall metagame of GW2 is indeed more complex and deeper than TSW (we're discussing it on teamspeak now) - but then too, so is WoW's.
TSW is very simplistic and limited, just seems because it's new all the slow people haven't understood it yet.
I will still play it for the story and setting, and no doubt we'll do some team PVP and faceroll the slow players in stonehenge and fusang - you'll see 3-4 team-optimal builds appearing in PVP videos a week or two after release.
And by 3-4 builds total, that includes tanking and healing builds.
So pressing 2 buttons + dodge button is more complex? Really? You can hate this game as much as you like, it does not change the fact that TSW is a good game with an awesome concept to build on.
Also, calling people slow and bragging about how good you are makes me wonder if you are one of those who calles himself a hardcore PvPer ie always whining kid who demands nerfs every single time he gets killed? TSW is not even a PvP game so I don't understand why are you "quick people" even want to play it?
WoW = complex......that was by far the best joke I have seen on these forums. I played the game for years and all you needed to know was don't stand in the red circle of death. And that was challenging for many. Or they were just too bored and weren't paying attention due to the simplicity of the game.
I still can't see why they want to be here and not in the "real" PvP games with "real" button mashing and "real" 30 keybinds and everything, things that take "real" skill. Probably they're having their asses handed to them by the real e-sport clans in the real e-sport games.
Newsflash - we don't want you here, go there please, play WoW Arena or StarCraft2 or LoL or whatever takes skill for you. Stop saying that our game is crap, but you'll still play it, It does not make sense and obviously it does not look good in your "intelligent, thinking" players CV's. Playing it just to "pwn nubz and show them nubz i'm right" shows a lot of things about your maturity also. Prove us wrong. Prove us that you respect yourselves and your ideas and leave.
If you notice those games you listed and others that get picked up for MLG and other tournys have Both pro players that can pawn everyone else AND millions of players. The reason is solid game mechanics, an easy to pick up yet hard to master learning curve.
I face guys I watch play on Tourny streams all the time online in various games, sometimes I win sometimes I lose but I am at a high enough skill ranking to face them. They just practice more and know the game much better than most players.
You need them because they know the game so well, if the game isn't good from both a technical and fun perspective they leave. For some reason games don't have to be popular to attract those players, just good, well polished, with solid mechanics.
I don't want ranking, high tier PvP, ruthless PvE to be the focus in TSW. Yes they should exist but focusing the game towards them would be a mistake. I've did that for a few good years, i'm bored to the teeth. There are literally tens of games like these on the market. I don't want this new, interesting, different and fun for many title to be "leet-kidz" oriented also. I also don't want them in my games. The game is how it is. Changing it to turn it into something else because someone likes e-sports is not a good idea and will turn away lots of fans. The main perks of TSW are exactly in being different from anything else: setting, story etc. I've posted those games especially to ask why do this kind of players (i respect them as i respect any other human being) do not go towards those titles and come here trying to change the approach to this title instead, to make it "more fun" for them.
I can see where your coming from but honestly what will be left to do in the game if they didn't have any of things you stated? All that creates progression and without progression it might as well be a SPG that you play for a 100 hours or so than move on. The most hours I ever put into a SPG game was a fraction of a fraction of what I have poured into a progression based MMO. Without progression of some form there is no holding power.
That is your opinion, the games I spent most hours in other than my years in WoW were The Matrix Online and SWG which had none of the type of progression you are talking about, the game worlds were great, the people were awesome, we had some great fun, logging in to the game was a pleasure, logging in to WoW for my raids felt like a job.
Doesn't you choice in examples kind of prove my point?
People are different and like different things, if thats your point then you have proven it.
I agree with the OP. When I played the game I did not notice any "dynamic" combat. I basically stood my ground and spammed my two pistol abilities. If thats all I am going to do, I can save $60 and do it in one of the many other MMO's I have been disappointed with over the last two years.
I think the OP made some strong points and proved it with his video. You fanbois should stop spending so much time nit-picking it and acknowledge that there are issues with this game. If enough people bring the issue forward, it will get resolved and TSW will be a better game with a bigger population. All the denials some of you are making only hurt the game.
You made a conscious choice to spam 2 abilities and not look further. It was your choce to put no effort in. I had a few different builds all requiring a combination of 7 actives and 7 passives. I had a deck for group pvp, solo pvp, cc heavy, debuff heavy, more survival, all out dps, and hybrids of the afore mentioned.
I found the more I played with the skill wheel the more rewarding the gameplay was.
And by doing so you traded efficiency for flavor as the OP pointed out. There is nothing wrong with that and for most PVE content and lower level PVP you probably are fine. However if you start to do high level PVP or extremely challenging PVE that lack of efficiency is going to start to not only hurt you but your group mates as well.
How is identifying that someone is taking a long time to kill and adding debuffs and or more dps not adding efficiency. How is adding cc into your build if people are getting away from you not adding efficiency? Seems to me that I am absolutely being efficient at identifying weaknesses and creating a build to fix them. Seems to me I am reacting to what I am encountering and adapting.
What, high level pvp doesn't involve adapting to your opponents? High level pvp is spamming one builder and one finisher?
Since you brought up pve, the same applies. If the encounter isn't working out as well as you think it should you adapt and make changes. Thats is also what Funcom is going for, that people will communicate and build their groups based on the strengths and weakness of everyone involved.
Its obvious that you and the OP totally missed that.
Missed what? That the most efficient way to fill out your 7 active skills is to pick 2-3 abilities you use 90% of the time and fill the rest with ones that you use the remaining 10%?
If you play TSW any other way you are gimping yourself and your team by giving up active slots for abilities you should be taking instead of those redundent ones. That's what is annoying about TSW to me. It's this great idea of open skill system that has been castrated by 7 active abilities and the builder/spender game play mechanic.
I agree with the OP. When I played the game I did not notice any "dynamic" combat. I basically stood my ground and spammed my two pistol abilities. If thats all I am going to do, I can save $60 and do it in one of the many other MMO's I have been disappointed with over the last two years.
I think the OP made some strong points and proved it with his video. You fanbois should stop spending so much time nit-picking it and acknowledge that there are issues with this game. If enough people bring the issue forward, it will get resolved and TSW will be a better game with a bigger population. All the denials some of you are making only hurt the game.
You made a conscious choice to spam 2 abilities and not look further. It was your choce to put no effort in. I had a few different builds all requiring a combination of 7 actives and 7 passives. I had a deck for group pvp, solo pvp, cc heavy, debuff heavy, more survival, all out dps, and hybrids of the afore mentioned.
I found the more I played with the skill wheel the more rewarding the gameplay was.
And by doing so you traded efficiency for flavor as the OP pointed out. There is nothing wrong with that and for most PVE content and lower level PVP you probably are fine. However if you start to do high level PVP or extremely challenging PVE that lack of efficiency is going to start to not only hurt you but your group mates as well.
How is identifying that someone is taking a long time to kill and adding debuffs and or more dps not adding efficiency. How is adding cc into your build if people are getting away from you not adding efficiency? Seems to me that I am absolutely being efficient at identifying weaknesses and creating a build to fix them. Seems to me I am reacting to what I am encountering and adapting.
What, high level pvp doesn't involve adapting to your opponents? High level pvp is spamming one builder and one finisher?
Since you brought up pve, the same applies. If the encounter isn't working out as well as you think it should you adapt and make changes. Thats is also what Funcom is going for, that people will communicate and build their groups based on the strengths and weakness of everyone involved.
Its obvious that you and the OP totally missed that.
Missed what? That the most efficient way to fill out your 7 active skills is to pick 2-3 abilities you use 90% of the time and fill the rest with ones that you use the remaining 10%?
If you play TSW any other way you are gimping yourself and your team by giving up active slots for abilities you should be taking instead of those redundent ones. That's what is annoying about TSW to me. It's this great idea of open skill system that has been castrated by 7 active abilities and the builder/spender game play mechanic.
Please point out these 2-3 abilities that makes the other 500 or so obsolete? Please point out these 2-3 abilities that will do the most damage and be the best in pvp/pve solo and group play?
When I was playing I killed packs alot quicker using my frontal cone aoe ability build vs my single target build.
But I digress, please show us all your 2-3 spam-mode abilities that makes everything else useless.
This is like someone selling you an apple, and you've tried it, and the wrote an essay showing all the reasons why the apple you bought and tried is not a good black-bean dip.
The Secret World has not been marketed and hyped as "***The Greatest Combat MMO In History! ***"
It's just a SWTOR-like single-player adventure video game, with the barest minimum of features to be called a MMO. It's about mood, style, puzzles, and character costumes.
Fighting is clearly just a means to an end in this game. I'm so happy the OP just got that now.
For an encore, will the OP write another analysis on why EVE is such a bad FPS / dungeon crawler?
This is like someone selling you an apple, and you've tried it, and the wrote an essay showing all the reasons why the apple you bought and tried is not a good black-bean dip.
The Secret World has not been marketed and hyped as "***The Greatest Combat MMO In History! ***"
It's just a SWTOR-like single-player adventure video game, with the barest minimum of features to be called a MMO. It's about mood, style, puzzles, and character costumes.
Fighting is clearly just a means to an end in this game. I'm so happy the OP just got that now.
For an encore, will the OP write another analysis on why EVE is such a bad FPS / dungeon crawler?
I agree with the OP. When I played the game I did not notice any "dynamic" combat. I basically stood my ground and spammed my two pistol abilities. If thats all I am going to do, I can save $60 and do it in one of the many other MMO's I have been disappointed with over the last two years.
I think the OP made some strong points and proved it with his video. You fanbois should stop spending so much time nit-picking it and acknowledge that there are issues with this game. If enough people bring the issue forward, it will get resolved and TSW will be a better game with a bigger population. All the denials some of you are making only hurt the game.
You made a conscious choice to spam 2 abilities and not look further. It was your choce to put no effort in. I had a few different builds all requiring a combination of 7 actives and 7 passives. I had a deck for group pvp, solo pvp, cc heavy, debuff heavy, more survival, all out dps, and hybrids of the afore mentioned.
I found the more I played with the skill wheel the more rewarding the gameplay was.
And by doing so you traded efficiency for flavor as the OP pointed out. There is nothing wrong with that and for most PVE content and lower level PVP you probably are fine. However if you start to do high level PVP or extremely challenging PVE that lack of efficiency is going to start to not only hurt you but your group mates as well.
How is identifying that someone is taking a long time to kill and adding debuffs and or more dps not adding efficiency. How is adding cc into your build if people are getting away from you not adding efficiency? Seems to me that I am absolutely being efficient at identifying weaknesses and creating a build to fix them. Seems to me I am reacting to what I am encountering and adapting.
What, high level pvp doesn't involve adapting to your opponents? High level pvp is spamming one builder and one finisher?
Since you brought up pve, the same applies. If the encounter isn't working out as well as you think it should you adapt and make changes. Thats is also what Funcom is going for, that people will communicate and build their groups based on the strengths and weakness of everyone involved.
Its obvious that you and the OP totally missed that.
Missed what? That the most efficient way to fill out your 7 active skills is to pick 2-3 abilities you use 90% of the time and fill the rest with ones that you use the remaining 10%?
If you play TSW any other way you are gimping yourself and your team by giving up active slots for abilities you should be taking instead of those redundent ones. That's what is annoying about TSW to me. It's this great idea of open skill system that has been castrated by 7 active abilities and the builder/spender game play mechanic.
Please point out these 2-3 abilities that makes the other 500 or so obsolete? Please point out these 2-3 abilities that will do the most damage and be the best in pvp/pve solo and group play?
When I was playing I killed packs alot quicker using my frontal cone aoe ability build vs my single target build.
But I digress, please show us all your 2-3 spam-mode abilities that makes everything else useless.
Since when did this discussion stop being about rotations and start being about specific abilities? Your rotation regradless of which weapons you pick will be 2-3 abilities you spam 90%+ of the time and the rest being ones you use the remaining 10%. The specific abilities will be the most powerful ones in whatever two weapons you choice.
I'm done with arguing with people who think this is a deep system. Go play whatever style you like, take 7 builders that all do the same thing if you want and see where it gets you.
This is like someone selling you an apple, and you've tried it, and the wrote an essay showing all the reasons why the apple you bought and tried is not a good black-bean dip.
The Secret World has not been marketed and hyped as "***The Greatest Combat MMO In History! ***"
It's just a SWTOR-like single-player adventure video game, with the barest minimum of features to be called a MMO. It's about mood, style, puzzles, and character costumes.
Fighting is clearly just a means to an end in this game. I'm so happy the OP just got that now.
For an encore, will the OP write another analysis on why EVE is such a bad FPS / dungeon crawler?
So ponder this than.
Why is it that the weakest gameplay element of this game is the part you spend the most time doing by far?
I agree with the OP. When I played the game I did not notice any "dynamic" combat. I basically stood my ground and spammed my two pistol abilities. If thats all I am going to do, I can save $60 and do it in one of the many other MMO's I have been disappointed with over the last two years.
I think the OP made some strong points and proved it with his video. You fanbois should stop spending so much time nit-picking it and acknowledge that there are issues with this game. If enough people bring the issue forward, it will get resolved and TSW will be a better game with a bigger population. All the denials some of you are making only hurt the game.
You made a conscious choice to spam 2 abilities and not look further. It was your choce to put no effort in. I had a few different builds all requiring a combination of 7 actives and 7 passives. I had a deck for group pvp, solo pvp, cc heavy, debuff heavy, more survival, all out dps, and hybrids of the afore mentioned.
I found the more I played with the skill wheel the more rewarding the gameplay was.
And by doing so you traded efficiency for flavor as the OP pointed out. There is nothing wrong with that and for most PVE content and lower level PVP you probably are fine. However if you start to do high level PVP or extremely challenging PVE that lack of efficiency is going to start to not only hurt you but your group mates as well.
How is identifying that someone is taking a long time to kill and adding debuffs and or more dps not adding efficiency. How is adding cc into your build if people are getting away from you not adding efficiency? Seems to me that I am absolutely being efficient at identifying weaknesses and creating a build to fix them. Seems to me I am reacting to what I am encountering and adapting.
What, high level pvp doesn't involve adapting to your opponents? High level pvp is spamming one builder and one finisher?
Since you brought up pve, the same applies. If the encounter isn't working out as well as you think it should you adapt and make changes. Thats is also what Funcom is going for, that people will communicate and build their groups based on the strengths and weakness of everyone involved.
Its obvious that you and the OP totally missed that.
Missed what? That the most efficient way to fill out your 7 active skills is to pick 2-3 abilities you use 90% of the time and fill the rest with ones that you use the remaining 10%?
If you play TSW any other way you are gimping yourself and your team by giving up active slots for abilities you should be taking instead of those redundent ones. That's what is annoying about TSW to me. It's this great idea of open skill system that has been castrated by 7 active abilities and the builder/spender game play mechanic.
Please point out these 2-3 abilities that makes the other 500 or so obsolete? Please point out these 2-3 abilities that will do the most damage and be the best in pvp/pve solo and group play?
When I was playing I killed packs alot quicker using my frontal cone aoe ability build vs my single target build.
But I digress, please show us all your 2-3 spam-mode abilities that makes everything else useless.
Since when did this discussion stop being about rotations and start being about specific abilities? Your rotation regradless of which weapons you pick will be 2-3 abilities you spam 90%+ of the time and the rest being ones you use the remaining 10%. The specific abilities will be the most powerful ones in whatever two weapons you choice.
I'm done with arguing with people who think this is a deep system. Go play whatever style you like, take 7 builders that all do the same thing if you want and see where it gets you.
oh dear, you really don't get it, do you? the players who truly understand the system do not play this way, so if you are unwilling to adapt to the mechanic that is most effective, please go play something else.
Noone holding a gun to a head, and making people buy and play the game.
Game made the ways devs made it. It`s simple choice. Play it or not.
Stating "the combat is poorly desighed" (with 500+ skills) is just like saying Poker is poorly desighted card game cause u only got 5 cards to play with.
Noone holding a gun to a head, and making people buy and play the game.
Game made the ways devs made it. It`s simple choice. Play it or not.
Stating "the combat is poorly desighed" (with 500+ skills) is just like saying Poker is poorly designed card game cause u only got 5 cards to play with.
actually like that analogy:)
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Noone holding a gun to a head, and making people buy and play the game.
Game made the ways devs made it. It`s simple choice. Play it or not.
Stating "the combat is poorly desighed" (with 500+ skills) is just like saying Poker is poorly designed card game cause u only got 5 cards to play with.
Noone holding a gun to a head, and making people buy and play the game.
Game made the ways devs made it. It`s simple choice. Play it or not.
Stating "the combat is poorly desighed" (with 500+ skills) is just like saying Poker is poorly designed card game cause u only got 5 cards to play with.
Noone holding a gun to a head, and making people buy and play the game.
Game made the ways devs made it. It`s simple choice. Play it or not.
Stating "the combat is poorly desighed" (with 500+ skills) is just like saying Poker is poorly designed card game cause u only got 5 cards to play with.
Originally posted by negativf4kk Noone holding a gun to a head, and making people buy and play the game.Game made the ways devs made it. It`s simple choice. Play it or not.Stating "the combat is poorly desighed" (with 500+ skills) is just like saying Poker is poorly desighted card game cause u only got 5 cards to play with.
because in poker everyone sorts through the deck and picks out 4 aces every time and it then becomes a matter of spamming those aces as fast as possible ... yea that's the same thing.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Originally posted by negativf4kk Noone holding a gun to a head, and making people buy and play the game.
Game made the ways devs made it. It`s simple choice. Play it or not.
Stating "the combat is poorly desighed" (with 500+ skills) is just like saying Poker is poorly desighted card game cause u only got 5 cards to play with.
because in poker everyone sorts through the deck and picks out 4 aces every time and it then becomes a matter of spamming those aces as fast as possible ... yea that's the same thing.
This is like someone selling you an apple, and you've tried it, and the wrote an essay showing all the reasons why the apple you bought and tried is not a good black-bean dip.
The Secret World has not been marketed and hyped as "***The Greatest Combat MMO In History! ***"
It's just a SWTOR-like single-player adventure video game, with the barest minimum of features to be called a MMO. It's about mood, style, puzzles, and character costumes.
Fighting is clearly just a means to an end in this game. I'm so happy the OP just got that now.
For an encore, will the OP write another analysis on why EVE is such a bad FPS / dungeon crawler?
So ponder this than.
Why is it that the weakest gameplay element of this game is the part you spend the most time doing by far?
I didn't find combat to be overwhemly dominant in this game. I do agree with the OP on one point: With a good deck and good gear, the combat is mostly quick and easy. Also, you can simply run around or run away from a lot of combat as most XP is from finishing quests and objectives.
Anyway, to verify my premise I went back to FunCom's own TSW website, and copied below everything they say on the "game play" for TSW. I am correct and everyone can see for themselves - they are not pushing this as the end-all combat MMO. In fact, I was surprised myself as they make no claims at all about the combat system - I thought there would be at least a little mention.
(I also re-read the FC TSW main web page - no hype on the combat system. I went through some of the articles on decks and deck building - nothing there either.)
Listen, I'm no fanboi for this game, and am still on the fence about buying it. What I do care about is that FunCom is trying some new things in a very worn-out and tired genre, and for that they should get some support from video game fans.
GAMEPLAY
The Secret World is a massively multiplayer online world with a unique modern-day setting and unparalleled freedom of character progression.
Imagine if every myth, conspiracy theory and urban legend was true. Imagine a world where you can become anything you want to be, without restrictions such as classes or levels. This is the premise for The Secret World, Funcom’s upcoming massively multiplayer online game set in the modern-day real world.
The Secret World includes 30 days of free game time. Each additional month has a cost of $14.99 / €14.99 incl. VAT / £11.49 incl. VAT. Longer subscription cycles yield discounts to the monthly fee.
KEY FEATURES
Join a secret society and fight for your side
Choose a side. Join one of three secret societies – the Illuminati, the Dragon or the Templars – and battle with or against other players for world domination.
No classes, no levels – total freedom of play
The Secret World has no classes or levels. It gives you complete freedom to be whoever you want to be and play however you want to play.
Explore a vibrant, modern-day setting
The Secret World allows you to adventure through our own, modern-day world. Explore cities and adventure locations spanning across continents.
A storyline unlike anything seen in an MMO
From the creative mind of Ragnar Tørnquist - creator of the award-winning The Longest Journey - comes a story unlike any before seen in an MMO.
Thousands of weapons and powers
Pistols, assault rifles, black magic, fireballs, katanas, explosives – there are hundreds of different weapons and powers to use.
Originally posted by negativf4kk Noone holding a gun to a head, and making people buy and play the game.
Game made the ways devs made it. It`s simple choice. Play it or not.
Stating "the combat is poorly desighed" (with 500+ skills) is just like saying Poker is poorly desighted card game cause u only got 5 cards to play with.
because in poker everyone sorts through the deck and picks out 4 aces every time and it then becomes a matter of spamming those aces as fast as possible ... yea that's the same thing.
i see it more like in poker you never know exactly what the other player is holding. For me all MMOs come down to basic combinations and basic rotations.. its the options that interest me and so many games are so devoid of any sort of options in the classes I get bored easily..
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
let's break this down to the simplest possible terms:
Effective (adj.): Adequate to accomplish a purpose; producing the intended or expected result.
Efficient (adj.) Performing or functioning in the best possible manner with the least waste of time and effort.
in this example, the OP, and all his supporters have a valid case, arguing that TSW will eventually boild down to spamming 2-3 buttons and 3-4 build in the name of efficiency. even though he should have named the heavily edited video "how to curb-stomp PvP noobs with the least possible effort", there is still a case to be made for what appears to be a troublesome mechanic for some players, and i appreciate the case made here.
NOW, add the adjective "most" before each term.
"efficient" gains virtually no new meaning. either you are, or you are not.
meanwhile, the term "most effective" becomes an entirely different concept.
the player who properly synergizes passive skills with 7 active skills, will be a much "more effective" player than the "efficient" one. now take two players of equal skill, and our OP is the one facerolled instead.
For those wondering what my build was: I'm using two single target attacks (sometimes 3, especially in PvE), 3 impairs and 2 evasion CDs. Synergies and passives revolve around burst and impair. I've been playing long enough to know what synergies are, and how to get the most from them (and I do). That's not the point of this thread.
As you can see from the video, I can afford to devote 5 of my slots to ablities with 45 sec CDs because I can quickly drop opponents by spamming the same two abilities ad nauseum before they can do anything, and they cannot do anything because I can devote 5 of my slots to CCs and buffs and do plenty of damage with just two abilties.
I don't need any more attacks and the system punishes me if I do because by picking more attacks I'd have to drop some of my impairs/buffs, which are a lot more useful than the marginal increase in damage I could get from using more builders/spenders. I've done similar builds with rifle, blade, hammer and shotgun where I spam 2-3 attacks and use the rest of my slots for long CD abilities (i.e. buffs, CC, etc). The results are pretty much the same you see in this video. Unfortunaly it makes for very boring and repetitive combat, but I've yet to see something better. That is the entire point of this thread, players should not be rewarded by using shitty rotations like the ones I use.
A lot of theory crafters in this thread but someone has yet to step up and show me how I'm wrong in actual practice.
let's break this down to the simplest possible terms:
Effective (adj.): Adequate to accomplish a purpose; producing the intended or expected result.
Efficient (adj.) Performing or functioning in the best possible manner with the least waste of time and effort.
in this example, the OP, and all his supporters have a valid case, arguing that TSW will eventually boild down to spamming 2-3 buttons and 3-4 build in the name of efficiency. even though he should have named the heavily edited video "how to curb-stomp PvP noobs with the least possible effort", there is still a case to be made for what appears to be a troublesome mechanic for some players, and i appreciate the case made here.
NOW, add the adjective "most" before each term.
"efficient" gains virtually no new meaning. either you are, or you are not.
meanwhile, the term "most effective" becomes an entirely different concept.
the player who properly synergizes passive skills with 7 active skills, will be a much "more effective" player than the "efficient" one. now take two players of equal skill, and our OP is the one facerolled instead.
For those wondering what my build was: I'm using two single target attacks (sometimes 3, especially in PvE), 3 impairs and 2 evasion CDs. Synergies and passives revolve around burst and impair. I've been playing long enough to know what synergies are, and how to get the most from them (and I do). That's not the point of this thread.
As you can see from the video, I can afford to devote 5 of my slots to ablities with 45 sec CDs because I can quickly drop opponents by spamming the same two abilities ad nauseum before they can do anything, and they cannot do anything because I can devote 5 of my slots to CCs and buffs and do plenty of damage with just two abilties.
I don't need any more attacks and the system punishes me if I do because by picking more attacks I'd have to drop some of my impairs/buffs, which are a lot more useful than the marginal increase in damage I could get from using more builders/spenders. I've done similar builds with rifle, blade, hammer and shotgun where I spam 2-3 attacks and use the rest of my slots for long CD abilities (i.e. buffs, CC, etc). The results are pretty much the same you see in this video. Unfortunaly it makes for very boring and repetitive combat, but I've yet to see something better. That is the entire point of this thread, players should not be rewarded by using shitty rotations like the ones I use.
A lot of theory crafters in this thread but someone has yet to step up and show me how I'm wrong in actual practice.
I could kill people in rift by using two buttons as well but all those people I beat were A) Much lower rank than me or sucked at pvp and had no clue what they were doing... don't really see what your video proves at all. Also still don't see your guys point in only hitting a few keys. Most games in general get by fine with only 2-6 keys total used in combat. it's really all about options and how much you can customize your character to make them more unique so you oppenent doesn't know exactly how to counter you on every occasion.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
Comments
That is your opinion, the games I spent most hours in other than my years in WoW were The Matrix Online and SWG which had none of the type of progression you are talking about, the game worlds were great, the people were awesome, we had some great fun, logging in to the game was a pleasure, logging in to WoW for my raids felt like a job.
So yeah.
Doing GW2 stress test now.
The combat and overall metagame of GW2 is indeed more complex and deeper than TSW (we're discussing it on teamspeak now) - but then too, so is WoW's.
TSW is very simplistic and limited [mod edit]
I will still play it for the story and setting, and no doubt we'll do some team PVP and faceroll the slow players in stonehenge and fusang - you'll see 3-4 team-optimal builds appearing in PVP videos a week or two after release.
And by 3-4 builds total, that includes tanking and healing builds.
Or maybe people didn't play it to death in beta because they want to enjoy the game they have purchased for a while when it releases?
[mod edit] If the combat in TSW is not to your liking then don't play it. I am not a fan of the combat but its not the deciding factor on whether I play the game or not.
Doesn't you choice in examples kind of prove my point?
So pressing 2 buttons + dodge button is more complex? Really? You can hate this game as much as you like, it does not change the fact that TSW is a good game with an awesome concept to build on.
Also, calling people slow and bragging about how good you are makes me wonder if you are one of those who calles himself a hardcore PvPer ie always whining kid who demands nerfs every single time he gets killed? TSW is not even a PvP game so I don't understand why are you "quick people" even want to play it?
WoW = complex......that was by far the best joke I have seen on these forums. I played the game for years and all you needed to know was don't stand in the red circle of death. And that was challenging for many. Or they were just too bored and weren't paying attention due to the simplicity of the game.
People are different and like different things, if thats your point then you have proven it.
Missed what? That the most efficient way to fill out your 7 active skills is to pick 2-3 abilities you use 90% of the time and fill the rest with ones that you use the remaining 10%?
If you play TSW any other way you are gimping yourself and your team by giving up active slots for abilities you should be taking instead of those redundent ones. That's what is annoying about TSW to me. It's this great idea of open skill system that has been castrated by 7 active abilities and the builder/spender game play mechanic.
Please point out these 2-3 abilities that makes the other 500 or so obsolete? Please point out these 2-3 abilities that will do the most damage and be the best in pvp/pve solo and group play?
When I was playing I killed packs alot quicker using my frontal cone aoe ability build vs my single target build.
But I digress, please show us all your 2-3 spam-mode abilities that makes everything else useless.
To the OP: What a silly post.
This is like someone selling you an apple, and you've tried it, and the wrote an essay showing all the reasons why the apple you bought and tried is not a good black-bean dip.
The Secret World has not been marketed and hyped as "***The Greatest Combat MMO In History! ***"
It's just a SWTOR-like single-player adventure video game, with the barest minimum of features to be called a MMO. It's about mood, style, puzzles, and character costumes.
Fighting is clearly just a means to an end in this game. I'm so happy the OP just got that now.
For an encore, will the OP write another analysis on why EVE is such a bad FPS / dungeon crawler?
You're an asshole, good sir.
A big asshole.
Now I'm craving some black-bean dip..
Oh, good post. Mmm.. bean dip..
.. But in a good way.
Since when did this discussion stop being about rotations and start being about specific abilities? Your rotation regradless of which weapons you pick will be 2-3 abilities you spam 90%+ of the time and the rest being ones you use the remaining 10%. The specific abilities will be the most powerful ones in whatever two weapons you choice.
I'm done with arguing with people who think this is a deep system. Go play whatever style you like, take 7 builders that all do the same thing if you want and see where it gets you.
So ponder this than.
Why is it that the weakest gameplay element of this game is the part you spend the most time doing by far?
oh dear, you really don't get it, do you? the players who truly understand the system do not play this way, so if you are unwilling to adapt to the mechanic that is most effective, please go play something else.
Noone holding a gun to a head, and making people buy and play the game.
Game made the ways devs made it. It`s simple choice. Play it or not.
Stating "the combat is poorly desighed" (with 500+ skills) is just like saying Poker is poorly desighted card game cause u only got 5 cards to play with.
<a href="http://www.danasoft.com"><img src="http://www.danasoft.com/sig/499105419258.jpg"; border="0"></a><div style="font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:11px;"><p>Sign by Danasoft - <a href="http://www.danasoft.com">For Backgrounds and Layouts</a></p></div>
actually like that analogy:)
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
+1
+2
You win. /endthread
because in poker everyone sorts through the deck and picks out 4 aces every time and it then becomes a matter of spamming those aces as fast as possible ... yea that's the same thing.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
-1
I didn't find combat to be overwhemly dominant in this game. I do agree with the OP on one point: With a good deck and good gear, the combat is mostly quick and easy. Also, you can simply run around or run away from a lot of combat as most XP is from finishing quests and objectives.
Anyway, to verify my premise I went back to FunCom's own TSW website, and copied below everything they say on the "game play" for TSW. I am correct and everyone can see for themselves - they are not pushing this as the end-all combat MMO. In fact, I was surprised myself as they make no claims at all about the combat system - I thought there would be at least a little mention.
(I also re-read the FC TSW main web page - no hype on the combat system. I went through some of the articles on decks and deck building - nothing there either.)
Listen, I'm no fanboi for this game, and am still on the fence about buying it. What I do care about is that FunCom is trying some new things in a very worn-out and tired genre, and for that they should get some support from video game fans.
GAMEPLAY
Imagine if every myth, conspiracy theory and urban legend was true. Imagine a world where you can become anything you want to be, without restrictions such as classes or levels. This is the premise for The Secret World, Funcom’s upcoming massively multiplayer online game set in the modern-day real world.
The Secret World includes 30 days of free game time. Each additional month has a cost of $14.99 / €14.99 incl. VAT / £11.49 incl. VAT. Longer subscription cycles yield discounts to the monthly fee.
KEY FEATURES
Join a secret society and fight for your side
Choose a side. Join one of three secret societies – the Illuminati, the Dragon or the Templars – and battle with or against other players for world domination.
No classes, no levels – total freedom of play
The Secret World has no classes or levels. It gives you complete freedom to be whoever you want to be and play however you want to play.
Explore a vibrant, modern-day setting
The Secret World allows you to adventure through our own, modern-day world. Explore cities and adventure locations spanning across continents.
A storyline unlike anything seen in an MMO
From the creative mind of Ragnar Tørnquist - creator of the award-winning The Longest Journey - comes a story unlike any before seen in an MMO.
Thousands of weapons and powers
Pistols, assault rifles, black magic, fireballs, katanas, explosives – there are hundreds of different weapons and powers to use.
i see it more like in poker you never know exactly what the other player is holding. For me all MMOs come down to basic combinations and basic rotations.. its the options that interest me and so many games are so devoid of any sort of options in the classes I get bored easily..
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg
For those wondering what my build was: I'm using two single target attacks (sometimes 3, especially in PvE), 3 impairs and 2 evasion CDs. Synergies and passives revolve around burst and impair. I've been playing long enough to know what synergies are, and how to get the most from them (and I do). That's not the point of this thread.
As you can see from the video, I can afford to devote 5 of my slots to ablities with 45 sec CDs because I can quickly drop opponents by spamming the same two abilities ad nauseum before they can do anything, and they cannot do anything because I can devote 5 of my slots to CCs and buffs and do plenty of damage with just two abilties.
I don't need any more attacks and the system punishes me if I do because by picking more attacks I'd have to drop some of my impairs/buffs, which are a lot more useful than the marginal increase in damage I could get from using more builders/spenders. I've done similar builds with rifle, blade, hammer and shotgun where I spam 2-3 attacks and use the rest of my slots for long CD abilities (i.e. buffs, CC, etc). The results are pretty much the same you see in this video. Unfortunaly it makes for very boring and repetitive combat, but I've yet to see something better. That is the entire point of this thread, players should not be rewarded by using shitty rotations like the ones I use.
A lot of theory crafters in this thread but someone has yet to step up and show me how I'm wrong in actual practice.
I could kill people in rift by using two buttons as well but all those people I beat were A) Much lower rank than me or
sucked at pvp and had no clue what they were doing... don't really see what your video proves at all. Also still don't see your guys point in only hitting a few keys. Most games in general get by fine with only 2-6 keys total used in combat. it's really all about options and how much you can customize your character to make them more unique so you oppenent doesn't know exactly how to counter you on every occasion.
I angered the clerk in a clothing shop today. She asked me what size I was and I said actual, because I am not to scale. I like vending machines 'cause snacks are better when they fall. If I buy a candy bar at a store, oftentimes, I will drop it... so that it achieves its maximum flavor potential. --Mitch Hedberg