I got the rejuvenation bonus in BWE3 but like the dmg potion it was only for PvE. And it explicitly said that in the description as well. In fact, all of the boosts I got from drops and chests specifically said it was only for PvE, so the Pay2Win argument is null and void.
@bcbully - I understand your reasoning behind not liking a Pay2Win CS and I would agree with you IF any of those items were available for use in sPvP or WvWvW, but they're not. At least not since BWE3. If that changes at or after release, I'm sure there will be an uproar over it because I think most of us would agree that those things would be Pay2Win if they were allowed in WvWvW or sPvP.
Fair enough. It would still be nice to see a statement or a SS, but I will go with what's been said.
That is how I feel about DE's - saw them in Warhammer and then we saw Rifts in Rift and now we see DE's in GW2.
DE's in GW2 are the evolution of Rifts in Rift which were the evolution of PQ's in WAR.
If you don't / can't see the differences, you aren't looking very hard.
You are seeing what you want to see.
Tell me, how truly dynamic is the DE's? Are they randomly generated content where no two DE's ever are the same and will the DE's change locations?
There is no such thing as randomly generated content when it comes to programming a computer - someone will always and has always figured out the variables/conditions.
They are "dynamic" in that the adjust their size/difficulty based on the number of players and they have multiple win/loss conditions and phases, like a tree with multiple branches wtih multiple branches branching off of those branches etc.
As such, there is no "linear" path from start to finish, as the path from start to finish is varied based upon what branches are "chosen" based on player interaction.
There are "absolute win" and "absolute loss" conditions at the end / beginning of each chain.
So are they truly dynamic? No.
But as I was saying they are the evolution of Rifts in Rift because they are far more complex.
OK, But will you admit that they are not truly dynamic and that eventually, you'll no doubt run the various DE's and they will start repeating - like what we saw when the guy playing on Twitch TV kept doing the same DE over and over again.
Premise: I do not care abut the Shop discussion, pay to win etc. So I went back to the DE discussion, was much more entertaining in my opinion.
I played WAR and did their PQs. I did not play Rift. GW2 DEs are bounds and leaps over WAR, here is why:
- Variety: there are MANY events. WAR usually had 1 per area or so.
- Diversity: The events do not always play out the same. They can branch out and have different outcomes
- Interaction: Events can trigger on their own... or by some NPCs yelling at you of danger, or of NPC doing things you can actually see OR by you, when speakin to NPCs. In WAR they just happen on the clock.
- Freedom: WAR PQs did not scale with people present. GW2 do, beside some that are Elite events and as such starts at an higher difficulty level, but they still scale. I experienced this first hand. The Asura region was quite crowded, so when the Inquest attacked one of the labs, they ATTACKED it like A Boss, with legions of golems, little asurans and stuff. 30 seconds later, the whole lab was a battlefield, stuff was exploding all over the place, people yelling, it was WAR, a much better sense of it than ever WARhammer did or World of WARcraft did.
- CHOICES!: Let's take the same event I speak of above. During it, one of the inquest managed to get in the lab and steal something. This immediately triggered a NEW event "stop the thief". But the old one is still going! Do you chase the thief or defend the lab and hope someone else will go after the thief? You cannot do both.
- Cooperation, not Competition: the medal you get depends on YOUR effort, not your effort as compared to the others.
- World Consequences: Events have real world consequences. Cities get sacked, waypoints get contested and cannot be used, there are several waiting states for events, not just reset to 0.
EXAMPLE: In the Charr starting area there is a mansion under attack by ghosts, when my wife played in the BWE3, the mansion was actually captured by the ghosts and the waypoint was contested. She went there and found Charr npcs and soldier preparing an assault. She talked with their leader and that triggered the assault event. SHE triggered an event. So the npcs and her attack the mansion and the event is succesfull.
This leads to event 2, secure the camp. More ghosts to kills etc. The event was also succesfull, this removed the ghosts invaders and the charr npcs created a Charr camp on the place. Then the ghost counter attack came.
Eevent number 3., defend the newly established camp from the ghost invasion. Here she LOST! The event was a defeat, the camp was destroyed, the waypoint remained contested. IF she won, the waypoint would have unlocked and in this area there would be a Charr fortified camp instead of tons of ghosts.
THIS is something I have never seen in MMOs before, beside WoW phasing technology, but the phasing technology only works ONCE and then you are in the general world status quo.. not to mention it also separate you from your friends if they are not in the same phase. With DEs if your friend is late to the party you do not tell him "sorry, can't help" but instead "Grab a gun, ee are knee deep in ectoplasm and the ascalonians are preparinng something nasty, we surely would need an extra hand! chop chop!"
Maybe this is something you cannot see in videos, or maybe the guy just repeated the same DE over and over, you surely CAN do that if you like, but I surely do not know WHY.
Finally, my thoughts on the hearts and how central they are to Arena net PvE system. They ain't. The world would works just as fine without them, but they are a nice touch and provide some guidance together with the scouts.
EDIT: Finally, one last comment as Teala is familiar with WoW. THIS happened for WoW too. Granted, we did not have "let's play" kind of videos then, but people just watching videos or screenshots were all "meh, seen it before", me included! But then you played the game and were blown away, wow, there was nothing like it at the time.
Happened to me with WoW.... Happened to me with GW2. I was all "Guild Wars 2? what? I did not much like the first, bah. I much prefer MoP" Then I played it... for like.... a day or so and here I am writing a 2 page mini essays on "How Guild Wars Dynamic Events Are Better than WAR's PQs" Call me a convert, you would be right.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
Originally posted by PurgatusI think everyone on this thread needs to face facts:Pixels forming images on a screen....Lines of code executing commands......User interaction......Its all been done before. Its nothing new. Ergo, it will fail (because clearly nothing with these triats has ever been a "success")
Prepare for innovation!
S W n e l ) y r e u ; s i ( i m t t " n n e e C s m L o c ! . i d o "
So I've been playing GW2 since BWE1, and reading the boards...and I'm pretty convinced that this game will do very well. But it's not my own experience that really convinced me of this. It is, shockingly enough, the complaints I read on the board.
Just about every major MMORPG released in recent history had one or more very serious, potentially gamebreaking, complaints leveled at it in the early stages. And without exception, one or more of these complaints seemed to eventually lead to its downfall. A few examples...
1. SWTOR: An MMORPG game that seemed to entirely focus on largely single player story and didn't really bring anything new at all MMORPG-wise.
2. WAR: Seemed like it would be amazing at first, but two faction RvR was just failed from the start, and once we heard that they were cutting every major city but two, and four classes...it was obvious this game had problems.
3. AoC: HUGE gaps in content, so bad that you literally had to just grind for like 15-20 levels, and a newbie area that offered a deceptively rich experience that was not present in the rest of the game.
All of these complaints were discussed in the early days of the game...basically once the NDA was down, and I think they were HUGE red flags. However, nearly every complaint about GW2 I read on the board is ridiculous, and they typically fall into a handful of categories:
1. The completely unsubstantiated: "This game is horrible!" (no reason why)
2. The obviously incorrect: "PvP takes no skill at all!" (Anyone who has played PvP in GW2 will know this is obviously wrong)
3. The subjective: "I don't like the graphics." (While it is fine to make a complaint like this, I've never seen one that seems like it would be the opinion of the majority)
Now this said, I completely understand that there are people who will just not like this game, and they may have articulated why very well. And that is fine. Not everyone will like it.
But the key here is that I have yet to see the "killer" complaint for GW2. There's really no complaint I have seen that will indicate an achilles heel for the game. And, provided that the quality of the higher level content keeps up with what we have seen so far, I think that is a pretty good indication that it will wind up doing well.
I suppose..
I mean..I can come up with plenty of things where people would quit GW2 just as quickly. Qeueus for WvW (lol), lack of available skills, the FoV they still haven't changed, lack of skills to be used (not available), no shinies (the +10 armor , etc) Content? People still questioning GW end game content to this day. Nobody really knows what is truely there.
I guess you'll see. I was actually stoked as shit for Guild Wars 2 but about 2 weeks ago or so I just lost all interest. I guess I started wading through all the fan made hype that usually happens before every MMO. I am suprised to hear TSW is doing pretty well.
What is funny is that I use real time marketing figures and facts. You use speculation that all websites use. "revolutionary combat" - "Most played game" are all catch slogans of hello kitty and all other games out there. Glad your comment reveals to the actual mmorpgs what kind of community is going to be in this title. Helps and supports ly argument entirely LOL
What is funny is that I use real time marketing figures and facts. You use speculation that all websites use. "revolutionary combat" - "Most played game" are all catch slogans of hello kitty and all other games out there. Glad your comment reveals to the actual mmorpgs what kind of community is going to be in this title. Helps and supports ly argument entirely LOL
Was this the post you were referring to that uses "real time marketing figures and facts?"
Originally posted by sofakingdumb
The problem with your brain and all GW fans/
GW franchise was designed as an alternative RPG as almost all RPGS were difficult. From EQ to bauldurs gate. So GW came out with this Single player game with co op game play that meets in an MMO hub village. In featured more like an action instanced game.
Scoot ahead to GW2 and it is the SAME principle. Just open world. The people that fail at MMORPGS and RPGS finally have a place to call home. You can reach MAX level in GW2 without killing a single enemy. You are forced into areas or stuck without continuing. YOu have no need for role. Potion gobeling taking its roots to action GW1 = no need for class. Sure there is a touch of class but that takes ALLOT of fun out of the idea of RPG (role playing...playing our role).
I only agree with one thing. It is different. The market is saturated with so much role play people are numb now and want to skip and hop to the next thing. I notice 99% Of the community here are ADD game hoppers or ex wowers looking for that fix that promises a new game each content update (what wow didnt do, and when it did it was to late).
I am playing a great F2P title. I pay nothing, close to max level, and in my achievements log there is a marker for level 200. Right now cap is 80. If you measure the last update that increased the cap VS the upcoming updates to get us to 200, that is about 10 years down the road of content. I am content. My class rocks. I cant level easy, but its not difficult. No grind. EVENTS EVERY HOUR! Cash shop 100% cosmetic and interchangable and tradeable with in game awards and gold.
I Can go on and on. My wheels are not broken so I have no need to play a new game that failed at trying to reinvent it. And yes I played GW2 beta.
Sure GW2 will sell tons of copies because it's B2P.
In that sense it will be a success like SWTOR was.
Will the game have strong retention?
Probably not since there's no actual endgame to keep people playing in GW2.
The WvWvW aspect is plenty endgame for me to remain interested. I havent felt anything like it since planetside tbh... I found GW1 to be mediocre and would have enjoyed it more if it wasn't flooded with immaturity (I blamed this on the free to play at the time). When I first heard of GW2, I thought of GW1 and had no interest at all... however after seeing some promo videos and feature lists, it caught my eye... after playing it for a weekend, I craved more. I truly missed playing it when the weekend ended. Once again, another feeling thought dead to me. When starting the second beta weekend, I felt giddy. It was then I realized how much fun it was...
My only real complaint is how bored I am while waiting for launch because every game I play now feels absent of life. This is just my story of support.
About the retention.... i honeslty have my doubts.
Just like all themeparks, when the content locusts finish all the PVE content (and that will happen, don't kid yourself), and players are left out with PVP as the only thing to do while waiting for new dungeons and DE's,one has to wonder if the easy to get into PVP with no real winners or losers will have enough depth to hold people attention for more than a couple of weeks.
If i remember right... almost everyone loved SWTOR for the first months.... then they ran out of content, plus the endgame was crap.
So... do people really hate same old themeparks or they just hate to run out of content? GW2 is going to be a perfect test to know that.
But it doesn't matter since it's B2P, it's not really meant to be played as your main MMO for years, and i expect lots of expansions to come out so you will never reallly "quit" the game.
Comments
Fair enough. It would still be nice to see a statement or a SS, but I will go with what's been said.
Premise: I do not care abut the Shop discussion, pay to win etc. So I went back to the DE discussion, was much more entertaining in my opinion.
I played WAR and did their PQs. I did not play Rift. GW2 DEs are bounds and leaps over WAR, here is why:
- Variety: there are MANY events. WAR usually had 1 per area or so.
- Diversity: The events do not always play out the same. They can branch out and have different outcomes
- Interaction: Events can trigger on their own... or by some NPCs yelling at you of danger, or of NPC doing things you can actually see OR by you, when speakin to NPCs. In WAR they just happen on the clock.
- Freedom: WAR PQs did not scale with people present. GW2 do, beside some that are Elite events and as such starts at an higher difficulty level, but they still scale. I experienced this first hand. The Asura region was quite crowded, so when the Inquest attacked one of the labs, they ATTACKED it like A Boss, with legions of golems, little asurans and stuff. 30 seconds later, the whole lab was a battlefield, stuff was exploding all over the place, people yelling, it was WAR, a much better sense of it than ever WARhammer did or World of WARcraft did.
- CHOICES!: Let's take the same event I speak of above. During it, one of the inquest managed to get in the lab and steal something. This immediately triggered a NEW event "stop the thief". But the old one is still going! Do you chase the thief or defend the lab and hope someone else will go after the thief? You cannot do both.
- Cooperation, not Competition: the medal you get depends on YOUR effort, not your effort as compared to the others.
- World Consequences: Events have real world consequences. Cities get sacked, waypoints get contested and cannot be used, there are several waiting states for events, not just reset to 0.
EXAMPLE: In the Charr starting area there is a mansion under attack by ghosts, when my wife played in the BWE3, the mansion was actually captured by the ghosts and the waypoint was contested. She went there and found Charr npcs and soldier preparing an assault. She talked with their leader and that triggered the assault event. SHE triggered an event. So the npcs and her attack the mansion and the event is succesfull.
This leads to event 2, secure the camp. More ghosts to kills etc. The event was also succesfull, this removed the ghosts invaders and the charr npcs created a Charr camp on the place. Then the ghost counter attack came.
Eevent number 3., defend the newly established camp from the ghost invasion. Here she LOST! The event was a defeat, the camp was destroyed, the waypoint remained contested. IF she won, the waypoint would have unlocked and in this area there would be a Charr fortified camp instead of tons of ghosts.
THIS is something I have never seen in MMOs before, beside WoW phasing technology, but the phasing technology only works ONCE and then you are in the general world status quo.. not to mention it also separate you from your friends if they are not in the same phase. With DEs if your friend is late to the party you do not tell him "sorry, can't help" but instead "Grab a gun, ee are knee deep in ectoplasm and the ascalonians are preparinng something nasty, we surely would need an extra hand! chop chop!"
Maybe this is something you cannot see in videos, or maybe the guy just repeated the same DE over and over, you surely CAN do that if you like, but I surely do not know WHY.
Finally, my thoughts on the hearts and how central they are to Arena net PvE system. They ain't. The world would works just as fine without them, but they are a nice touch and provide some guidance together with the scouts.
EDIT: Finally, one last comment as Teala is familiar with WoW. THIS happened for WoW too. Granted, we did not have "let's play" kind of videos then, but people just watching videos or screenshots were all "meh, seen it before", me included! But then you played the game and were blown away, wow, there was nothing like it at the time.
Happened to me with WoW.... Happened to me with GW2. I was all "Guild Wars 2? what? I did not much like the first, bah. I much prefer MoP" Then I played it... for like.... a day or so and here I am writing a 2 page mini essays on "How Guild Wars Dynamic Events Are Better than WAR's PQs" Call me a convert, you would be right.
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
I did get one of the +10% damage boosts from a Mystic Chest in BWE #3.
They may not be in the shop, but they are in the game.
I think everyone on this thread needs to face facts:
Pixels forming images on a screen....
Lines of code executing commands......
User interaction......
Its all been done before. Its nothing new. Ergo, it will fail (because clearly nothing with these triats has ever been a "success")
Prepare for innovation!
S W n e l )
y r e u ;
s i ( i m
t t " n n
e e C s
m L o c !
. i d o "
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
Its new and different! Pure gold!
I suppose..
I mean..I can come up with plenty of things where people would quit GW2 just as quickly. Qeueus for WvW (lol), lack of available skills, the FoV they still haven't changed, lack of skills to be used (not available), no shinies (the +10 armor , etc) Content? People still questioning GW end game content to this day. Nobody really knows what is truely there.
I guess you'll see. I was actually stoked as shit for Guild Wars 2 but about 2 weeks ago or so I just lost all interest. I guess I started wading through all the fan made hype that usually happens before every MMO. I am suprised to hear TSW is doing pretty well.
What is funny is that I use real time marketing figures and facts. You use speculation that all websites use. "revolutionary combat" - "Most played game" are all catch slogans of hello kitty and all other games out there. Glad your comment reveals to the actual mmorpgs what kind of community is going to be in this title. Helps and supports ly argument entirely LOL
Was this the post you were referring to that uses "real time marketing figures and facts?"
If so...I'm not seeing it
.
Are you team Azeroth, team Tyria, or team Jacob?
The WvWvW aspect is plenty endgame for me to remain interested. I havent felt anything like it since planetside tbh... I found GW1 to be mediocre and would have enjoyed it more if it wasn't flooded with immaturity (I blamed this on the free to play at the time). When I first heard of GW2, I thought of GW1 and had no interest at all... however after seeing some promo videos and feature lists, it caught my eye... after playing it for a weekend, I craved more. I truly missed playing it when the weekend ended. Once again, another feeling thought dead to me. When starting the second beta weekend, I felt giddy. It was then I realized how much fun it was...
My only real complaint is how bored I am while waiting for launch because every game I play now feels absent of life. This is just my story of support.
IMO it's going to be very succesful.
About the retention.... i honeslty have my doubts.
Just like all themeparks, when the content locusts finish all the PVE content (and that will happen, don't kid yourself), and players are left out with PVP as the only thing to do while waiting for new dungeons and DE's,one has to wonder if the easy to get into PVP with no real winners or losers will have enough depth to hold people attention for more than a couple of weeks.
If i remember right... almost everyone loved SWTOR for the first months.... then they ran out of content, plus the endgame was crap.
So... do people really hate same old themeparks or they just hate to run out of content? GW2 is going to be a perfect test to know that.
But it doesn't matter since it's B2P, it's not really meant to be played as your main MMO for years, and i expect lots of expansions to come out so you will never reallly "quit" the game.
This is al IMO, of course.