For the developers it is not neccesary, but for the investors it is, why would they otherwise invest in an expensive MMO if they can make just as much money from a normal boxed game. The extra income is a requirement,
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
those are included in mystic chests. Your answer was right infront of your face... next time do your own homework.
Armor Bonus of 10%---Gets you nothing as there are skills that boost damage by more the 10%
Strength Bonus 10%---Gets you nothing as there as skills that reduce damage by more then 10%
Rqjuvenation Bonus---Gets you nothing as there are skills that can drain health from and and can be stacked as well as othere health degeneration skills.
Speed Bonus---This is used to run away when the first 3 do not work.
these thing do nothing for you in the end you may get 1-2% more out of them but that is not much. these iteams are not going to make a player out power another player with out them.
This is actually ANet technically telling a 'false' statement of 'we won't sell power'.
I would be really surprized if this was a decision by ANet as I really respected them.
Gdemami - Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
In my opinion, if they are in WvW, they need to remove stat boosts from mystic chests if they stack with guild buffs/food buffs. I'm ok with something like that being in for world PvE content as an incentive for people to buy keys or whatever. But the second you have stat boosters from the shop in any way in any PvP situation, it crosses my own personal line of what's acceptable.
Honestly? The only things I find interesting on the item shop are the extra bag slots, character slots and mini pets.
However, Mini pets I will get from my hall of monuments cause I unlocked the available ones from there.
So let's see what one really needs:
Bag Slots
After all my 4 slots bags in the bag slots were full, I went to the bank, dropped a few items in there, sold my junk and went for crafting.
I crafted myself 8 slots bags which doubled the space and I also crafted some for my teammate so, crafting+bank space was more than enough for me cause I regularly sell stuff I don't need.
Due to this I didn't needed the extra bag slots to unlock them and I doubt I ever will.
Character Slots
When will I need one?
Definately not now and since I already have 5, that's plenty for months if not for over a year for me.
Buffs (XP, Kama, Gold and so on)
All the buffs you can buy from the gem shop are easily gained through a dedicated guild.
Alone by questing, exploring and most of all WvsWvsW, I got all 4 level 1 research queed (2000 influence) and were still gaining some for extras.
A buff takes between 50 to 150 influence to research and after activated you have it for the whole guild instead of one person.
So all in all, no matter how you put it and no matter how much it costs, you really don't need all of those things cause there is always a way around them.
The only not gainable stuff in game are the costumes which based on my opinion of the in BW3 available ones, they were off for the worlds setting (Sunglasses, hoodie and so on).
The Gems price is also not determined by the so called "Magic Box", is determined by the players and the pricing they are making for the Gems they want to sell.
In my opinion, one should sit down and check what they think they need and why cause sometimes things that look as "needed", are not really needed at all.
Factually it is 'P2W', whether it is minor enough for anyone to buy the game is another issue.
This. In-game advantages for cash money = P2W. We can argue semantics and scale - and it's probably true that the advantages in GW2 are small enough to not bother a lot of people - but it's still P2W.
i wouldnt really call it pay2win.. i would call it.. pay2getslightadvantagethatsuselessatlvl80andcantbeusedinpvpanywayandsincethebuffsareonlymobxpandsuchstufftheyarequiteuselessanyway
Factually it is 'P2W', whether it is minor enough for anyone to buy the game is another issue.
This. In-game advantages for cash money = P2W. We can argue semantics and scale - and it's probably true that the advantages in GW2 are small enough to not bother a lot of people - but it's still P2W.
This has been discussed a lot in the past but when you are winning someone must be losing, it's simple logic. Those boosters will give you an advantage and make your gameplay different, but over others? Nope, nothing over others, you are not winning anything. Having an advantage for yourself doesn't equal P2W because you aren't winning anything.
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
You are right seridan, unless those boosts work in WvWvW. If they do, then its P2W. Since you pay to win a battle versus another player who loses.
It is my understandin that they don't work in WvWvW. If they do, it's P2W, unless same boosters can be easily and readily acquired without much grind in the game without payment.
Considering, however, that I'm playing WoT, which is P2W openly and freely and enormously enjoying it (because it's the most nice and unnoticeable P2W I've ever met. ) I don't mind slight P2W advantages.
Again, it is my understanding that it's not P2W, but even if they are, no big deal for me.
You are right seridan, unless those boosts work in WvWvW. If they do, then its P2W. Since you pay to win a battle versus another player who loses.
Even if it would work in pvp it would stil not be pay to win because:
- a guild can activate the same buffs for their whole guild in pve and pvp without the need of gems or item shop-
- having a minor boost like this does nothing in WvsW cause you will likely get ganged by tons of people instead of having a 1vs1
- even if you manage to have a 1vs1 fight for a few with someone, it won't really help your realm/server to win since this one death/kill won't be heavier than the tons of people "knocking" on your towers/keeps doors
- if you don't know how to play your character properly, the small boost won't help you even against a one legged enemy with only a woodstick as a weapon
You are right seridan, unless those boosts work in WvWvW. If they do, then its P2W. Since you pay to win a battle versus another player who loses.
The big complain is that gems can be traded for gold, and then gold will be used to buy more siege equipment. This has been discussed before and the key here is supply, you can't get supply using a booster so no side can dominate the others by using cash. Also, keep in mind that blueprints cost very little for a higher level player. Even if there is an advantage when the servers go live (and lower levels can't buy as many blueprints or have trouble with repairs) this will disappear once the population raises in level. That's why the first days of WvWvW will have battles rotating in 24h, it will be like a pre-game for the real thing. Then, once the real WvWvW start, with 2-week rotations the population will be mostly normalized among servers making any kind of gold bonus from real cash a non-issue, everything will be super cheap for everyone.
Also the "key" level is 30, since at 30 you get your elite skill slot, granted before level 30 you can more easily be defeated by a lower level character. But by 30 once again the field will be normalised, and it won't require that much work to get to 30 either. Finally WvWvW is all about a war, you can have a smaller amount of people defeating a much larger force, even without level advantages. It's all about tactics and proper teamwork, on a macro-level. Once good guilds appear with proper "generals" that can lead the masses properly we'll see epic battles without any kind of concern as to what level or what items anyone around you has.
As a final note, let me ask this, do you ask everyone around you what level they are and what kind of items they have? In large-scale battles any kind of advantage will be diminished.
In short, there will be an unfair advantage during the first days of WvWvW, those who will pay will have more money to buy blueprints and repair themselves, while the others will have a harder time. This won't be an issue later on, once the "real" WvWvW start and everyone will be playing on a more even field. I really hope the 24h period will last a couple of days, before the "real" thing begins.
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
Nice to see such strident opinions about things which should have been answered with just a tiny bit of actual investigation....
No Gem Shop combat performance-relevant stat boosting item works in PvP - sPvP or WvWvW.
No-one has seriously looked at the costs of the Gems and the benefits they bring and sensibly anaylsed this from both sides of the arguement. They have gone with their guts and in some cases written utter garbage front to back.
The game does not require that you buy anything with real money - it relies on those that will given a healthy gaming population. It would be a more legitimate complaint from those who will pay for Gem Store items that everyone else is freeloading off them....
.... but we don't hear from them do we - they seem to live in the real world and don't see the problem. The 'freeloaders' however are vocal and persistent....
This discussion is ridiculous if you take more than five minutes to sensibly anaylse the actual cost/benefit of the Gem Store. Pay to Win?? - don't make me laugh. The BWE experiences of people frontloading siege equipment with Gems is irrelevant in the medium to long term - because demand will drive price will drive availability - and that balances out - both in terms of basic economics and sheer numbers of people per server. In the rare instances where that might not balance (statistically abberant servers....) your problem goes away in 2 weeks.
What a lot of drama over nothing.... but then there is a great deal of smoke and mirrors here - not to mention ignorance of the sigificant variables involved.
I have plenty of spare cash each month but still won't be buying much - there is simply NO NEED. I may put $5 aside each month to buy stuff just to make sure ANet have my share of the funds to do further development, but that is because I want this excellent game to succeed.
After all - If I do a good job at work - I expect to get paid - so should they. Anyone arguing otherwise is being ridiculous.
As to the people complaining about 'greed' - wake up and smell the coffee. Someone provides a service they get money for it unless they are family or good friends. If you worked and didn't get anything for it your complaints about THAT would eclipse the chatter in these forums a hundred times over.
Guess what - ANet is not your friend - and they aren't your family. They are a however a perfectly principled and competent commercial enterprise providing you with a so far premium service which you are not FORCED to pay for beyond your initial purchase.
Quit complaining about it - your words ring hollow.
Its personal thing for every1 to spend or not money on a game. Personally i see no point in having 8 Character slots At all.
If you need 8 80lvl character and you planning to play all of them somethg wrong here...
Bank slots useless also even if you are heavy collector Maybe if you want to keep all Colorfull gear hehe
Inventory slots also can live with out them with instant Reposits to collectibles and ability to sell anythg from any place
Whats left hhm Boxes totally useless they have nothg inside rarely minipet and most of the time Potions to convert you into somethg non combat. +some 1h xp/magic buff
Sure as most ppl want everythg in no time they will pay for all slots bank bags characters even if they will leave game in 2 months. Its real world economic. Anet giving just oportunity to spend money on somethg you waste your time instead of hmmm gasoline and beer ))
Caliburn101 can you confirm that boosts from mystic chests do not work in WvWvW?
Can anyone confirm that?
Can anyone also confirm that they do not stack with similar ones from guild perks?
Mystic chests are marginal and almost irrelevant to this discussion - they drop, so do keys. I have had a key as a quest reward and a key as a jump puzzle reward. Besides - the best things in them - the resurrection consumables don't work in PvP so what are you concerned about?
I was not obviously considering XP boosts since thats not giving an advantage. I'm asking about armor, regen etc buffs that do give advantage. Do they work or not in WvWvW?
I just don't beleive that I ever received value for money by giving NCsoft £120 for six years playing CoX.
In the 2012 Q1 earning cost brakdown, consolidated bandwidth for all games isnt even mentioned in the main table. It's a small footnote at the bottom along with rent.
The market has spoken somewhat. MMO studios need to raise their game or lower their prices. I've had a better online experience playing Borderlands GOTY edition in multiplayer that I have had with any mmo inthe last 5 years. Am I supposed to be OK giving some company £120 a year for the same quality experience that I can get from a £40 B2P game? No. I will not subsidise mediocrity anymore. MMO makers have been taking us for a ride for so long that we have forgotten how to walk ourselves.
Poeple can like or loathe the CS but players will only feel it's OK to spend money on it if the believe they are getting a quality experience in return. If they purchase out of need they will not purchase again. If they do it because tey feel Anet deserves their money they will do so again.
There is NO miracle patch.
95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.
Hope is not a stategy. ______________________________ "This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."
I was not obviously considering XP boosts since thats not giving an advantage. I'm asking about armor, regen etc buffs that do give advantage. Do they work or not in WvWvW?
There is no armor/regen/damage boost in the Cash Shop
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
There is, it is just very nicely hidden uner the name of the "Mystic Key". Which you buy, then buy Mystic Chest on AH for 3 copper (or just find it - it drops everywhere) and open it and get your boosts.
There is a reason they are doing the cash shop model...it produces more money. Pay money or get out. It forces you to pay pretty much. [mod edit] You may not see it yet but in a few months you will.
"Pay money or get out" ?
You dont NEED any of the items in the gem store to play or stay competitive...
You may want an extra character slot...but that´s about it... and that´ll be after your fifth character....
You can play the game without having to pay with real cash at all...
At the end it´s your decision to do so or not, but the game doesn´t force you to.
Yea, I can't see any argument against the cash shop as I won't even look at it. If players want something fresh looking or whatever then go ahead and buy it. I even know its there.
Comments
About the extra income outside of box sales.<
For the developers it is not neccesary, but for the investors it is, why would they otherwise invest in an expensive MMO if they can make just as much money from a normal boxed game. The extra income is a requirement,
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Mothanos, did you know you can pay for stat boosts? That, coupled with WvWvW, is a very good incentitive to pay money constantly.
This is actually ANet technically telling a 'false' statement of 'we won't sell power'.
I would be really surprized if this was a decision by ANet as I really respected them.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
In my opinion, if they are in WvW, they need to remove stat boosts from mystic chests if they stack with guild buffs/food buffs. I'm ok with something like that being in for world PvE content as an incentive for people to buy keys or whatever. But the second you have stat boosters from the shop in any way in any PvP situation, it crosses my own personal line of what's acceptable.
Honestly? The only things I find interesting on the item shop are the extra bag slots, character slots and mini pets.
However, Mini pets I will get from my hall of monuments cause I unlocked the available ones from there.
So let's see what one really needs:
Bag Slots
After all my 4 slots bags in the bag slots were full, I went to the bank, dropped a few items in there, sold my junk and went for crafting.
I crafted myself 8 slots bags which doubled the space and I also crafted some for my teammate so, crafting+bank space was more than enough for me cause I regularly sell stuff I don't need.
Due to this I didn't needed the extra bag slots to unlock them and I doubt I ever will.
Character Slots
When will I need one?
Definately not now and since I already have 5, that's plenty for months if not for over a year for me.
Buffs (XP, Kama, Gold and so on)
All the buffs you can buy from the gem shop are easily gained through a dedicated guild.
Alone by questing, exploring and most of all WvsWvsW, I got all 4 level 1 research queed (2000 influence) and were still gaining some for extras.
A buff takes between 50 to 150 influence to research and after activated you have it for the whole guild instead of one person.
So all in all, no matter how you put it and no matter how much it costs, you really don't need all of those things cause there is always a way around them.
The only not gainable stuff in game are the costumes which based on my opinion of the in BW3 available ones, they were off for the worlds setting (Sunglasses, hoodie and so on).
The Gems price is also not determined by the so called "Magic Box", is determined by the players and the pricing they are making for the Gems they want to sell.
In my opinion, one should sit down and check what they think they need and why cause sometimes things that look as "needed", are not really needed at all.
Hmm many diffrent opinions on the matter of P2W in Anets cashshop.
So in WvW some people (might use) these power ups, but you never ever fight alone in those borderlands.
The more poeple are fighting the less impact these minor stat boosts effect me from oponents.
But i can understand why people will say it give a power boosts, as they give it nonetheless.
But its so minor i cannot say its a pay to win asset.
For me P2W is an item or power up that totaly leaves me defenceless without a fair chanse to fight back when im not using these power ups.
And that is not the case !
And man its will be delecious to own these people who buy any minor stat boosts to get an edge and end up eating dirt
Factually it is 'P2W', whether it is minor enough for anyone to buy the game is another issue.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
This. In-game advantages for cash money = P2W. We can argue semantics and scale - and it's probably true that the advantages in GW2 are small enough to not bother a lot of people - but it's still P2W.
i wouldnt really call it pay2win.. i would call it.. pay2getslightadvantagethatsuselessatlvl80andcantbeusedinpvpanywayandsincethebuffsareonlymobxpandsuchstufftheyarequiteuselessanyway
https://ashesofcreation.com/r/Y4U3PQCASUPJ5SED
This has been discussed a lot in the past but when you are winning someone must be losing, it's simple logic. Those boosters will give you an advantage and make your gameplay different, but over others? Nope, nothing over others, you are not winning anything. Having an advantage for yourself doesn't equal P2W because you aren't winning anything.
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
You are right seridan, unless those boosts work in WvWvW. If they do, then its P2W. Since you pay to win a battle versus another player who loses.
It is my understandin that they don't work in WvWvW. If they do, it's P2W, unless same boosters can be easily and readily acquired without much grind in the game without payment.
Considering, however, that I'm playing WoT, which is P2W openly and freely and enormously enjoying it (because it's the most nice and unnoticeable P2W I've ever met.
) I don't mind slight P2W advantages.
Again, it is my understanding that it's not P2W, but even if they are, no big deal for me.
Even if it would work in pvp it would stil not be pay to win because:
- a guild can activate the same buffs for their whole guild in pve and pvp without the need of gems or item shop-
- having a minor boost like this does nothing in WvsW cause you will likely get ganged by tons of people instead of having a 1vs1
- even if you manage to have a 1vs1 fight for a few with someone, it won't really help your realm/server to win since this one death/kill won't be heavier than the tons of people "knocking" on your towers/keeps doors
- if you don't know how to play your character properly, the small boost won't help you even against a one legged enemy with only a woodstick as a weapon
The big complain is that gems can be traded for gold, and then gold will be used to buy more siege equipment. This has been discussed before and the key here is supply, you can't get supply using a booster so no side can dominate the others by using cash. Also, keep in mind that blueprints cost very little for a higher level player. Even if there is an advantage when the servers go live (and lower levels can't buy as many blueprints or have trouble with repairs) this will disappear once the population raises in level. That's why the first days of WvWvW will have battles rotating in 24h, it will be like a pre-game for the real thing. Then, once the real WvWvW start, with 2-week rotations the population will be mostly normalized among servers making any kind of gold bonus from real cash a non-issue, everything will be super cheap for everyone.
Also the "key" level is 30, since at 30 you get your elite skill slot, granted before level 30 you can more easily be defeated by a lower level character. But by 30 once again the field will be normalised, and it won't require that much work to get to 30 either. Finally WvWvW is all about a war, you can have a smaller amount of people defeating a much larger force, even without level advantages. It's all about tactics and proper teamwork, on a macro-level. Once good guilds appear with proper "generals" that can lead the masses properly we'll see epic battles without any kind of concern as to what level or what items anyone around you has.
As a final note, let me ask this, do you ask everyone around you what level they are and what kind of items they have? In large-scale battles any kind of advantage will be diminished.
In short, there will be an unfair advantage during the first days of WvWvW, those who will pay will have more money to buy blueprints and repair themselves, while the others will have a harder time. This won't be an issue later on, once the "real" WvWvW start and everyone will be playing on a more even field. I really hope the 24h period will last a couple of days, before the "real" thing begins.
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
Nice to see such strident opinions about things which should have been answered with just a tiny bit of actual investigation....
No Gem Shop combat performance-relevant stat boosting item works in PvP - sPvP or WvWvW.
No-one has seriously looked at the costs of the Gems and the benefits they bring and sensibly anaylsed this from both sides of the arguement. They have gone with their guts and in some cases written utter garbage front to back.
The game does not require that you buy anything with real money - it relies on those that will given a healthy gaming population. It would be a more legitimate complaint from those who will pay for Gem Store items that everyone else is freeloading off them....
.... but we don't hear from them do we - they seem to live in the real world and don't see the problem. The 'freeloaders' however are vocal and persistent....
This discussion is ridiculous if you take more than five minutes to sensibly anaylse the actual cost/benefit of the Gem Store. Pay to Win?? - don't make me laugh. The BWE experiences of people frontloading siege equipment with Gems is irrelevant in the medium to long term - because demand will drive price will drive availability - and that balances out - both in terms of basic economics and sheer numbers of people per server. In the rare instances where that might not balance (statistically abberant servers....) your problem goes away in 2 weeks.
What a lot of drama over nothing.... but then there is a great deal of smoke and mirrors here - not to mention ignorance of the sigificant variables involved.
I have plenty of spare cash each month but still won't be buying much - there is simply NO NEED. I may put $5 aside each month to buy stuff just to make sure ANet have my share of the funds to do further development, but that is because I want this excellent game to succeed.
After all - If I do a good job at work - I expect to get paid - so should they. Anyone arguing otherwise is being ridiculous.
As to the people complaining about 'greed' - wake up and smell the coffee. Someone provides a service they get money for it unless they are family or good friends. If you worked and didn't get anything for it your complaints about THAT would eclipse the chatter in these forums a hundred times over.
Guess what - ANet is not your friend - and they aren't your family. They are a however a perfectly principled and competent commercial enterprise providing you with a so far premium service which you are not FORCED to pay for beyond your initial purchase.
Quit complaining about it - your words ring hollow.
Caliburn101 can you confirm that boosts from mystic chests do not work in WvWvW?
Can anyone confirm that?
Can anyone also confirm that they do not stack with similar ones from guild perks?
good points
But
Its personal thing for every1 to spend or not money on a game. Personally i see no point in having 8 Character slots At all.
If you need 8 80lvl character and you planning to play all of them somethg wrong here...
Bank slots useless also even if you are heavy collector Maybe if you want to keep all Colorfull gear hehe
Inventory slots also can live with out them with instant Reposits to collectibles and ability to sell anythg from any place
Whats left hhm Boxes totally useless they have nothg inside rarely minipet and most of the time Potions to convert you into somethg non combat. +some 1h xp/magic buff
Sure as most ppl want everythg in no time they will pay for all slots bank bags characters even if they will leave game in 2 months. Its real world economic. Anet giving just oportunity to spend money on somethg you waste your time instead of hmmm gasoline and beer
))
is it matter
xp buff so small and farming mobs not a way to lvlup in here if you getting 30xp for mob and 1200 for event no point in farming 
Boosts work, but they give extra xp from mobs not players or events. So practicaly 90% of the time before the booster end you won't get anything.
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
Mystic chests are marginal and almost irrelevant to this discussion - they drop, so do keys. I have had a key as a quest reward and a key as a jump puzzle reward. Besides - the best things in them - the resurrection consumables don't work in PvP so what are you concerned about?
I was not obviously considering XP boosts since thats not giving an advantage. I'm asking about armor, regen etc buffs that do give advantage. Do they work or not in WvWvW?
A few things.
I just don't beleive that I ever received value for money by giving NCsoft £120 for six years playing CoX.
In the 2012 Q1 earning cost brakdown, consolidated bandwidth for all games isnt even mentioned in the main table. It's a small footnote at the bottom along with rent.
The market has spoken somewhat. MMO studios need to raise their game or lower their prices. I've had a better online experience playing Borderlands GOTY edition in multiplayer that I have had with any mmo inthe last 5 years. Am I supposed to be OK giving some company £120 a year for the same quality experience that I can get from a £40 B2P game? No. I will not subsidise mediocrity anymore. MMO makers have been taking us for a ride for so long that we have forgotten how to walk ourselves.
Poeple can like or loathe the CS but players will only feel it's OK to spend money on it if the believe they are getting a quality experience in return. If they purchase out of need they will not purchase again. If they do it because tey feel Anet deserves their money they will do so again.
There is NO miracle patch.
95% of what you see in beta won't change by launch.
Hope is not a stategy.
______________________________
"This kind of topic is like one of those little cartoon boxes held up by a stick on a string, with a piece of meat under it. In other words, bait."
There is no armor/regen/damage boost in the Cash Shop
Block the trolls, don't answer them, so we can remove the garbage from these forums
There is, it is just very nicely hidden uner the name of the "Mystic Key". Which you buy, then buy Mystic Chest on AH for 3 copper (or just find it - it drops everywhere) and open it and get your boosts.
Yea, I can't see any argument against the cash shop as I won't even look at it. If players want something fresh looking or whatever then go ahead and buy it. I even know its there.