Originally posted by killion81 It has since been changed to per character dye unlocks. It was stated that the reasoning behind the change was that dye unlocks were seen as character progression (despite the random nature of unlocks and ability to purchase them). The decision seems to fall upon a new addition to the ArenaNet team, Crystin Cox, the Monetization Producer. Prior to being hired by ArenaNet, she was the Lead Producer of Maple Story at Nexon.
didnt know - thanks for info, im still an anet fan but this cash grab surprised me
doesnt help players that like rolling tons of alts
Sounds like Arenanet decided that they were not doing a good enough job with "monetizing" their content, so in March they appointed somebody from (Crystin Cox, the Monetization Producer) to focus on making CS profits. Just by looking at her title, her job is obviously going to be focused on driving CS sales, i.e. "monetizing" game content.
NCSoft is the ultimate boss here, so they will dictate policy. Perhaps they "encouraged" Anet to create this new position. Her late addition to the GW2 team may well indicate that NCSoft took note of the huge growth in GW2's popularity, and suddenly realized they were looking at a major opportunity to make CS profits.
it will be interesting to see whether NCSoft can resist the temptation to raid GW2's CS cookie jar...
Ms. Cox (who worked for NCSoft in 2007) will be trying her utmost to justify her paycheck as well. And she's no slouch, she generally gets promoted or changes to a better position within at most 2 years at any job. So she delivers the goods, so to speak. And her job at Anet is to make more money out of the Cash Shop.
It is amazing to see, in this time and age, people thinking that companies wanting to make money as a bad thing. There are good ways and bad ways to earn money. EA, Activision et al are examples of bad decisions regarding moneymaking. ArenaNet, so far, has shown that they handle the balance between money and product longevity quite well.
But, in the, end, they are in it for the money. As it should be. At least they have the guts to try new ways of doing so.
All of this is a very true statement. Anet, Blizzard, Trion, Funcom..none of the MMO dev companies are making these games just because they love us, out of the kindness of their hearts. They have bills to pay like the rest of us.
Unfortunately, the stigma of cash shop MMOs goes something like this
Companies are in it to make money (true)
If a company doesn't charge a sub, they have to get their money another way (true)
The most efficient way other than a sub is a cash shop (true)
The company can then restrict essential services, or offer advantages, that make gameplay miserable for anyone that doesn't use their cash shop, thus forcing people to use it and spend far more money than a sub just to be on par (false)
Yes, we all can name a game that's done that last one. Heck, I can think of dozens off the top of my head. Every gPotato, Aeria, and most PWI games offhand, and there's far more.
But that's changing. Look at LoL. Look at Champions, COH, STO, DDO, LoTRO, AO, AoC...in not a one of those can a palyer buy his way to being better than anyone else.
Yes, GW2 has a cash shop. Yes, some of the items they sell increase stats is the game; and yes, you can get those much much faster in the shop. But here's the thing.
Who on this forum enjoys a game that is p2w? Show of hands? Yeah, not a hand raised. NO ONE on this forum, no one I know personally, wants a game that we have to funnel hundreds of dollars a month into just to be on even footing with people that do the same. None of us. You think developers haven't seen that? If I was making a game and I had a cash shop, I'd be scared to death in this day and age to make anything that looked even remotely looks p2w.
What I'd do is offer things that give people minor inconsequential advantages, or save them a little time so they can soend time enjoying the game, not grinding. Cosmetic fluff, luxury items that don't impact gameplay.
The cash shop is just a typical hook, its purpose is too take advantage of people that can't help but spend money. What you really need to do is stop worrying about convertion rates and start asking yourself "Do I really need any of this junk?".
From my perspective its a win-win, Arena.net make more money and I eventually will be able to spend my ingame gold to buy cash shop items if I want them. I also don't really view the purchase of "services" or items that require actual time to create as unreasonable.
My thoughts exactly. If someone wants to spend $200 on this game, good for them. I don't need to in order to compete, nothing more then junk in there anyways. XP/Crafting boosts? Please. Crappy town clothing? No thanks. Bank space? If I really need to, I can spend ingame money. Making gold in this game is not hard.
So Anet shouldn't be allowed to make money? You don't like the pricing of items then don't buy them. None of it is required to play the game unless you want to take shortcus.
BTW I personaly think people/company should be rewarded for the hard work they do. This concept of 'greed' would only be true if we were forced to buy items.
All of this is a very true statement. Anet, Blizzard, Trion, Funcom..none of the MMO dev companies are making these games just because they love us, out of the kindness of their hearts. They have bills to pay like the rest of us.
Unfortunately, the stigma of cash shop MMOs goes something like this
Companies are in it to make money (true)
If a company doesn't charge a sub, they have to get their money another way (true)
The most efficient way other than a sub is a cash shop (true)
The company can then restrict essential services, or offer advantages, that make gameplay miserable for anyone that doesn't use their cash shop, thus forcing people to use it and spend far more money than a sub just to be on par (false)
Yes, we all can name a game that's done that last one. Heck, I can think of dozens off the top of my head. Every gPotato, Aeria, and most PWI games offhand, and there's far more.
But that's changing. Look at LoL. Look at Champions, COH, STO, DDO, LoTRO, AO, AoC...in not a one of those can a palyer buy his way to being better than anyone else.
Yes, GW2 has a cash shop. Yes, some of the items they sell increase stats is the game; and yes, you can get those much much faster in the shop. But here's the thing.
Who on this forum enjoys a game that is p2w? Show of hands? Yeah, not a hand raised. NO ONE on this forum, no one I know personally, wants a game that we have to funnel hundreds of dollars a month into just to be on even footing with people that do the same. None of us. You think developers haven't seen that? If I was making a game and I had a cash shop, I'd be scared to death in this day and age to make anything that looked even remotely looks p2w.
What I'd do is offer things that give people minor inconsequential advantages, or save them a little time so they can soend time enjoying the game, not grinding. Cosmetic fluff, luxury items that don't impact gameplay.
That seems, to me, what GW2 has done.
Very much so. We need to stop the righteous crusade for the welfare game. I have absolutely no problem in paying for products that enjoy and that don't rip me off. We all do. We all have that special treat we like best, that drink, brand of beer, jeans, cars, etc that we buy above the others. Why gaming should be different?
And, like the examples above, we should be critical consumers. Endorse only after doing your homework. Test the product. Check its compositiion. Verify the track record of the company. Then make a conscious choice.
People in these threads are slapping the worst aspects of gaming in a title that, so far, has proven to be the exact opposite of predatory gaming. This is biased, unfair and just plain stupid. Don't put all gaming companies in the same bag, just like you don't do it for the rest of the products you purchase.
I do hope that Anet make a TON of money, just to prove to the naysayers and the industry as a whole that making a good game, with a clear management, is perfectly possible, without milking your playerbase or incurring the wrath of the community. This would be a powerful message, one that would NOT be ignored by the industry as a whole.
Why? Because being loved is an integral part of making money, for consumer products. Check Coca Cola, and other choice brands. They have striven valiantly to be a household name, and many people don't even look what theur products cost, when they put that bottle on the trolley. There is a relationship established there.
All gaming companies want this. They are not stupid. They know the power of gaming communities and the word on the streets. Anet is accutely aware that making this a Chinese P2W title will alienate their former playerbase, as well as most of the new one.
We should all want that this game suceeds. If not for the product itself, at least for the positive impact it can create in the MMO field.
Very much so. We need to stop the righteous crusade for the welfare game. I have absolutely no problem in paying for products that enjoy and that don't rip me off. We all do. We all have that special treat we like best, that drink, brand of beer, jeans, cars, etc that we buy above the others. Why gaming should be different?
And, like the examples above, we should be critical consumers. Endorse only after doing your homework. Test the product. Check its compositiion. Verify the track record of the company. Then make a conscious choice.
People in these threads are slapping the worst aspects of gaming in a title that, so far, has proven to be the exact opposite of predatory gaming. This is biased, unfair and just plain stupid. Don't put all gaming companies in the same bag, just like you don't do it for the rest of the products you purchase.
I do hope that Anet make a TON of money, just to prove to the naysayers and the industry as a whole that making a good game, with a clear management, is perfectly possible, without milking your playerbase or incurring the wrath of the community. This would be a powerful message, one that would NOT be ignored by the industry as a whole.
Why? Because being loved is an integral part of making money, for consumer products. Check Coca Cola, and other choice brands. They have striven valiantly to be a household name, and many people don't even look what theur products cost, when they put that bottle on the trolley. There is a relationship established there.
All gaming companies want this. They are not stupid. They know the power of gaming communities and the word on the streets. Anet is accutely aware that making this a Chinese P2W title will alienate their former playerbase, as well as most of the new one.
We should all want that this game suceeds. If not for the product itself, at least for the positive impact it can create in the MMO field.
Who spefically has been crusading for a welfare game?
Are P2P AAA games milking their playerbase?
In what ways is the management of GW2 significantely clearer than of other AAA MMORPGs?
Who decides how much brand loyalty is worth?
Who decides at which point alienating a part of the customer base becomes unprofitable?
Who spefically has been crusading for a welfare game?
Some people on forums make claims for 'purity in MMOs', or something like that. They eagerly hope for the Minecraft of MMOs, a game free from most 'corporate evil'. You have probably stumbled on them somewhere on the Internet.
It is also valid for people complaining that MMO companies want to make money, which is an absurd statement.
Are P2P AAA games milking their playerbase?
In a sense, yes. Their production cycle usually falls drastically after launch, and yet they still charge you the subscription money for access. Some, of course, are worse than others. But the consumers, as a whole, are getting tired of this model. Don't trust me, trust the current decision-making in the MMO industry.
In what ways is the management of GW2 significantely clearer than of other AAA MMORPGs?
For once, they promised several things, and delivered almost every feature they had in line. Compare with other launches, where features are overblown or simply not there. Anet so far had great clarity and honesty in what they officially said.
Who decides how much brand loyalty is worth?
The consumer, obviously. But few would argue that brand loyalty is one of the most sought-after results of any company, in any area.
Who decides at which point alienating a part of the customer base becomes unprofitable?
The production cycle of new products give us a clear indication of where the industry is going. I am sure most companies have very detailed datamining regarding pricing, offer of new products, profitability and consumer rejection. It's like cars. When a model bombs in the dealer, it's taken out and substituted for a different model.
Check the EVE monocle debacle and Allods Online cash shop woes. They are good examples on how alienating your playerbase can and will bite you in the tender parts.
Originally posted by Tekaelon So Anet shouldn't be allowed to make money? You don't like the pricing of items then don't buy them. None of it is required to play the game unless you want to take shortcus. BTW I personaly think people/company should be rewarded for the hard work they do. This concept of 'greed' would only be true if we were forced to buy items.
I have nothing against ANet making money. The issue I had was ANet setting themselves above their competitors while touting the no subscriptions line during development, essentially calling other companies greedy for collecting a monthly subscription. After building a ton of good will in the fan base with this, they implement a cash shop that has the potential to make just as much, if not more, than a monthly a subscription. Yes, it is a function of good marketing PR and branding. However, just because I understand how it happened, doesn't mean I have to accept it as how companies should behave.
I also agree with people being rewarded for their hard work and creativity. It is likely that the ANet programmers, artists, level designers, game designers, QA, etc. will receive some sort of bonus for the success of GW2. Probably something like a profit sharing check. However, these are salaried employees and here are some numbers to consider.
$85,733 = average game programmer yearly salary in 2011
$71,354 = average game artist and animator yearly salary in 2011
$70,223 = average game designer yearly salary in 2011
$88,544 = average game producer yearly salary in 2011
$68,088 = average game audio and composer yearly salary in 2011
$49,009 = average game QA yearly salary in 2011
$106,452 = average game business and legal employee yearly salary in 2011
These numbers are taken from a voluntary industry survey conducted by Gamasutra. I do fully recognize that these salaries are not bad by any means. While this is more a critique of the video game industry as a whole (and could probably be extended to most other industries), who do you think will be rewarded if GW2 is a massive success? Do you think the game designers, programmers, producers, artists, animators, audio composers and QA people will be raking in millions all of a sudden? It's not the people who's creativity and hard work created the game that gain from a big success (other than job security). The people who took the "risk" by pumping money into the project are the ones that will receive the largest compensation. Those people are called investors, stock holders, shareholders, etc.
I do understand that this is "the way things are" in all business. However, I highlight it simply to point out that "buying gems to support ANet" is not directly supporting the people that did all of the work in creating GW2. Indirectly, it can contribute to job security and proft sharing checks. The only way things change in the world is if people stand up for what they believe is right and call out what they think is wrong.
The only way things change in the world is if people stand up for what they believe is right and call out what they think is wrong.
And I'll agree with that. But there's a difference between taking a stand for what you believe in and mindless zealotry.
Taking a stand: I have reasonable concern that some of the items in this game's cash shop provide unfair davantages, and as a consumer I choose to use my buying power (or "not-buying power" as 'twere) to make a statement to the developer in the hopes that such things are abolished.
Even when I don't agree with that person, I credit their right to do that. I may show them where and why I think they are wrong, but that's all.
Zealotry: I haven't done any research on this game, or how it works. I don't know whether these items are in game or not. I don't know how much of a real impact they might actually have. But they're in a cash shop, and all cash shops are evil! BURN THEM WITH CLEANSING HATE!
Just don't be that guy. And there's too many of that guy on these forums. Too many blindly defending the game without doing research or acknowledging flaws too.h
Who spefically has been crusading for a welfare game?
Some people on forums make claims for 'purity in MMOs', or something like that. They eagerly hope for the Minecraft of MMOs, a game free from most 'corporate evil'. You have probably stumbled on them somewhere on the Internet.
It is also valid for people complaining that MMO companies want to make money, which is an absurd statement.
Free from "corporate evil" is not equivalent with welfare. Neither is complaining about MMO companies becoming too greedy on the expense of other aspects. So again: who has been crusading for a welfare game?
Are P2P AAA games milking their playerbase?
In a sense, yes. Their production cycle usually falls drastically after launch, and yet they still charge you the subscription money for access. Some, of course, are worse than others. But the consumers, as a whole, are getting tired of this model. Don't trust me, trust the current decision-making in the MMO industry.
How do you measure who is milking their customers? Because surely you need to measure it to be able to draw the conclusion about who is worse and who is better, right? Is it average income through player minus average production cost per player?
In what ways is the management of GW2 significantely clearer than of other AAA MMORPGs?
For once, they promised several things, and delivered almost every feature they had in line. Compare with other launches, where features are overblown or simply not there. Anet so far had great clarity and honesty in what they officially said.
Why not simply say precisely that? Because management is a very broad term . For instance, it isn't clear who related to Guild Wars 2 responds to who and what orders they've been given and how much sway they have in different aspects.
Who decides how much brand loyalty is worth?
The consumer, obviously. But few would argue that brand loyalty is one of the most sought-after results of any company, in any area.
Let me rephrase: who decides and can accuaretely analyze how much brand loyalty is worth to companies?
Who decides at which point alienating a part of the customer base becomes unprofitable?
The production cycle of new products give us a clear indication of where the industry is going. I am sure most companies have very detailed datamining regarding pricing, offer of new products, profitability and consumer rejection. It's like cars. When a model bombs in the dealer, it's taken out and substituted for a different model.
Check the EVE monocle debacle and Allods Online cash shop woes. They are good examples on how alienating your playerbase can and will bite you in the tender parts.
We also have Diablo III and Starcraft II which did very well despite RMT Auction and absence of LAN respectively. Point being that alienating certain parts of your customer base can indeed be profitable and are not necessarely a recipie for the downfall of a game.
It's funny how "cosmetic items only" cash shop has a direct impact on in-game economy and a direct impact on time spent doing stuff (time=money) regardless if I spend money in it or not. Cosmetic is rapidly becoming a cosmic-size term!
Actually I'm not too concerned about the cash shop, I'm not in a rush to get to max level, and I gladly support the company a bit here and there if the game is good. What annoys me is this holier than thou "we dont have sub fee so our game is awesome" yet they have a cash shop that impacts my gameplay regardless if I use it or not.
It's funny how "cosmetic items only" cash shop has a direct impact on in-game economy and a direct impact on time spent doing stuff (time=money) regardless if I spend money in it or not. Cosmetic is rapidly becoming a cosmic-size term!
Actually I'm not too concerned about the cash shop, I'm not in a rush to get to max level, and I gladly support the company a bit here and there if the game is good. What annoys me is this holier than thou "we dont have sub fee so our game is awesome" yet they have a cash shop that impacts my gameplay regardless if I use it or not.
I'll agree with you that people that just go "Our game has no sub and is therefore better" are annoying..but how does the cash shop impact your gameplay?
Someone can level about 5% faster than you. (Note: the XP boosters only work on PvE mob kills, which are the smallest source of available xp.). Does this prevent you from levelling? If you hit 80 in 30 days, and it only takes them 28, is this that big a deal? Does someone having a little more gold affect your ability to play and enjoy the game?
I won't deny there are items that can impact another's gameplay experience if they use it, but nothing that changes yours.
And please, no referencing WvW seige. It's been debunked to death.
Who spefically has been crusading for a welfare game?
Some people on forums make claims for 'purity in MMOs', or something like that. They eagerly hope for the Minecraft of MMOs, a game free from most 'corporate evil'. You have probably stumbled on them somewhere on the Internet.
It is also valid for people complaining that MMO companies want to make money, which is an absurd statement.
Free from "corporate evil" is not equivalent with welfare. Neither is complaining about MMO companies becoming too greedy on the expense of other aspects. So again: who has been crusading for a welfare game?
How can you be so sure? Lots of people here are complaining about the cash shop, as if it is inherently evil. It's not. That's my point. They apparently want a profit-free company, interested purely on the interests of 'gamers', whatever that is.
Are P2P AAA games milking their playerbase?
In a sense, yes. Their production cycle usually falls drastically after launch, and yet they still charge you the subscription money for access. Some, of course, are worse than others. But the consumers, as a whole, are getting tired of this model. Don't trust me, trust the current decision-making in the MMO industry.
How do you measure who is milking their customers? Because surely you need to measure it to be able to draw the conclusion about who is worse and who is better, right? Is it average income through player minus average production cost per player?
It's quite easy to analyse that. Most games people consider P2W milk their customers with a deeper dependency of their cash shops. It's not rocket science, nor does this needs in-depth statistics to be perceived. The simple shift towards the profitable F2P model of the whole industry is a symptom because, remember, companies want money, first and foremost.
In what ways is the management of GW2 significantely clearer than of other AAA MMORPGs?
For once, they promised several things, and delivered almost every feature they had in line. Compare with other launches, where features are overblown or simply not there. Anet so far had great clarity and honesty in what they officially said.
Why not simply say precisely that? Because management is a very broad term . For instance, it isn't clear who related to Guild Wars 2 responds to who and what orders they've been given and how much sway they have in different aspects.
I used management on purpose. We know who Anet answers to (NCsoft), we know they have a lot of freedom to make the game. Of course we don't know director's board stuff, neither I did imply we need to do so. But we know a lot, and we can make decent guesses about many other things.
Who decides how much brand loyalty is worth?
The consumer, obviously. But few would argue that brand loyalty is one of the most sought-after results of any company, in any area.
Let me rephrase: who decides and can accuaretely analyze how much brand loyalty is worth to companies?
Companies themselves. They do this all the time. Brand Awareness and Loyalty are college classes for Marketing and Advertising degrees. The fact that they spend so much, for so long, implies that the value of this data is enormous.
Who decides at which point alienating a part of the customer base becomes unprofitable?
The production cycle of new products give us a clear indication of where the industry is going. I am sure most companies have very detailed datamining regarding pricing, offer of new products, profitability and consumer rejection. It's like cars. When a model bombs in the dealer, it's taken out and substituted for a different model.
Check the EVE monocle debacle and Allods Online cash shop woes. They are good examples on how alienating your playerbase can and will bite you in the tender parts.
We also have Diablo III and Starcraft II which did very well despite RMT Auction and absence of LAN respectively. Point being that alienating certain parts of your customer base can indeed be profitable and are not necessarely a recipie for the downfall of a game.
Sure, it can be profitable in the short term, since they are milking their brand loyalty (see above). Was it a good plan? For the management, who will get a fat bonus for the short term results, yes. For the customers and for the company in a long term, no. Just check the forums and the general outcry on the Internet. There will be no more free passes for Blizzard, from now on. Same for Bioware/EA, after the SWTOR fiasco.
And for each example of that, we see many others that took this too far and lost customers, brand loyalty and money.
There is a reason they are doing the cash shop model...it produces more money. Pay money or get out. It forces you to pay pretty much. [mod edit] You may not see it yet but in a few months you will.
"Pay money or get out" ?
You dont NEED any of the items in the gem store to play or stay competitive...
You may want an extra character slot...but that´s about it... and that´ll be after your fifth character....
You can play the game without having to pay with real cash at all...
At the end it´s your decision to do so or not, but the game doesn´t force you to.
pretty sure I've heard this arguement right before diablo 3 came out...
It's funny how "cosmetic items only" cash shop has a direct impact on in-game economy and a direct impact on time spent doing stuff (time=money) regardless if I spend money in it or not. Cosmetic is rapidly becoming a cosmic-size term!
Actually I'm not too concerned about the cash shop, I'm not in a rush to get to max level, and I gladly support the company a bit here and there if the game is good. What annoys me is this holier than thou "we dont have sub fee so our game is awesome" yet they have a cash shop that impacts my gameplay regardless if I use it or not.
I'll agree with you that people that just go "Our game has no sub and is therefore better" are annoying..but how does the cash shop impact your gameplay?
Someone can level about 5% faster than you. (Note: the XP boosters only work on PvE mob kills, which are the smallest source of available xp.). Does this prevent you from levelling? If you hit 80 in 30 days, and it only takes them 28, is this that big a deal? Does someone having a little more gold affect your ability to play and enjoy the game?
I won't deny there are items that can impact another's gameplay experience if they use it, but nothing that changes yours.
And please, no referencing WvW seige. It's been debunked to death.
Well the leveling speed does not really matter since I dont race or rush to max level, however there's people who do care. Imo that's not a big deal in any case.
Bigger deal is that buying gold will have a direct impact in the economy, that means every player basically. Also, I thought the cash shop is cosmetic only, like it's been held as such left and right for how long, but in fact I can buy anything with real cash that I can buy with ingame gold. That at least sounds quite a big deal to me, unless someone claims that ingame trading stands for nothing, which would make it useless, hard to believe that.
I'm not going to parade about it one way or another since I dont know how things turn out exactly after launch, but being able to buy everything with cash that you can buy with ingame gold at least sounds like something that cannot be simply shoved aside. If people feel compelled to take part in the cash shop because of the economy, trading, etc, then the shop might quickly turn into very sub-fee like entity, which would never happen with a true cosmetic-only shop.
Best case scenario, the cash shop impact on ingame prices and trading will be minimal. Lets hope for that, cheers.
Comments
didnt know - thanks for info, im still an anet fan but this cash grab surprised me
doesnt help players that like rolling tons of alts
EQ2 fan sites
You can completely ignore the shop without having any disadvantages.
And once a year you can invest 10 bucks to buy yourself some fluffy stuff, if you want to.
Advertising has us chasing cars and clothes, working jobs we hate so we can buy shit we don't need.
Ms. Cox's resume is scary good.
All of this is a very true statement. Anet, Blizzard, Trion, Funcom..none of the MMO dev companies are making these games just because they love us, out of the kindness of their hearts. They have bills to pay like the rest of us.
Unfortunately, the stigma of cash shop MMOs goes something like this
My thoughts exactly. If someone wants to spend $200 on this game, good for them. I don't need to in order to compete, nothing more then junk in there anyways. XP/Crafting boosts? Please. Crappy town clothing? No thanks. Bank space? If I really need to, I can spend ingame money. Making gold in this game is not hard.
BTW I personaly think people/company should be rewarded for the hard work they do. This concept of 'greed' would only be true if we were forced to buy items.
Very much so. We need to stop the righteous crusade for the welfare game. I have absolutely no problem in paying for products that enjoy and that don't rip me off. We all do. We all have that special treat we like best, that drink, brand of beer, jeans, cars, etc that we buy above the others. Why gaming should be different?
And, like the examples above, we should be critical consumers. Endorse only after doing your homework. Test the product. Check its compositiion. Verify the track record of the company. Then make a conscious choice.
People in these threads are slapping the worst aspects of gaming in a title that, so far, has proven to be the exact opposite of predatory gaming. This is biased, unfair and just plain stupid. Don't put all gaming companies in the same bag, just like you don't do it for the rest of the products you purchase.
I do hope that Anet make a TON of money, just to prove to the naysayers and the industry as a whole that making a good game, with a clear management, is perfectly possible, without milking your playerbase or incurring the wrath of the community. This would be a powerful message, one that would NOT be ignored by the industry as a whole.
Why? Because being loved is an integral part of making money, for consumer products. Check Coca Cola, and other choice brands. They have striven valiantly to be a household name, and many people don't even look what theur products cost, when they put that bottle on the trolley. There is a relationship established there.
All gaming companies want this. They are not stupid. They know the power of gaming communities and the word on the streets. Anet is accutely aware that making this a Chinese P2W title will alienate their former playerbase, as well as most of the new one.
We should all want that this game suceeds. If not for the product itself, at least for the positive impact it can create in the MMO field.
Who spefically has been crusading for a welfare game?
Are P2P AAA games milking their playerbase?
In what ways is the management of GW2 significantely clearer than of other AAA MMORPGs?
Who decides how much brand loyalty is worth?
Who decides at which point alienating a part of the customer base becomes unprofitable?
I have nothing against ANet making money. The issue I had was ANet setting themselves above their competitors while touting the no subscriptions line during development, essentially calling other companies greedy for collecting a monthly subscription. After building a ton of good will in the fan base with this, they implement a cash shop that has the potential to make just as much, if not more, than a monthly a subscription. Yes, it is a function of good marketing PR and branding. However, just because I understand how it happened, doesn't mean I have to accept it as how companies should behave.
I also agree with people being rewarded for their hard work and creativity. It is likely that the ANet programmers, artists, level designers, game designers, QA, etc. will receive some sort of bonus for the success of GW2. Probably something like a profit sharing check. However, these are salaried employees and here are some numbers to consider.
$85,733 = average game programmer yearly salary in 2011
$71,354 = average game artist and animator yearly salary in 2011
$70,223 = average game designer yearly salary in 2011
$88,544 = average game producer yearly salary in 2011
$68,088 = average game audio and composer yearly salary in 2011
$49,009 = average game QA yearly salary in 2011
$106,452 = average game business and legal employee yearly salary in 2011
These numbers are taken from a voluntary industry survey conducted by Gamasutra. I do fully recognize that these salaries are not bad by any means. While this is more a critique of the video game industry as a whole (and could probably be extended to most other industries), who do you think will be rewarded if GW2 is a massive success? Do you think the game designers, programmers, producers, artists, animators, audio composers and QA people will be raking in millions all of a sudden? It's not the people who's creativity and hard work created the game that gain from a big success (other than job security). The people who took the "risk" by pumping money into the project are the ones that will receive the largest compensation. Those people are called investors, stock holders, shareholders, etc.
I do understand that this is "the way things are" in all business. However, I highlight it simply to point out that "buying gems to support ANet" is not directly supporting the people that did all of the work in creating GW2. Indirectly, it can contribute to job security and proft sharing checks. The only way things change in the world is if people stand up for what they believe is right and call out what they think is wrong.
And I'll agree with that. But there's a difference between taking a stand for what you believe in and mindless zealotry.
Taking a stand: I have reasonable concern that some of the items in this game's cash shop provide unfair davantages, and as a consumer I choose to use my buying power (or "not-buying power" as 'twere) to make a statement to the developer in the hopes that such things are abolished.
Even when I don't agree with that person, I credit their right to do that. I may show them where and why I think they are wrong, but that's all.
Zealotry: I haven't done any research on this game, or how it works. I don't know whether these items are in game or not. I don't know how much of a real impact they might actually have. But they're in a cash shop, and all cash shops are evil! BURN THEM WITH CLEANSING HATE!
Just don't be that guy. And there's too many of that guy on these forums. Too many blindly defending the game without doing research or acknowledging flaws too.h
It's funny how "cosmetic items only" cash shop has a direct impact on in-game economy and a direct impact on time spent doing stuff (time=money) regardless if I spend money in it or not. Cosmetic is rapidly becoming a cosmic-size term!
Actually I'm not too concerned about the cash shop, I'm not in a rush to get to max level, and I gladly support the company a bit here and there if the game is good. What annoys me is this holier than thou "we dont have sub fee so our game is awesome" yet they have a cash shop that impacts my gameplay regardless if I use it or not.
Not sure i understand when people say, "GW2 is not what expected"....wtf?
What did you expect, do tell? To me they pretty much devilered everything they posted...
I'll agree with you that people that just go "Our game has no sub and is therefore better" are annoying..but how does the cash shop impact your gameplay?
Someone can level about 5% faster than you. (Note: the XP boosters only work on PvE mob kills, which are the smallest source of available xp.). Does this prevent you from levelling? If you hit 80 in 30 days, and it only takes them 28, is this that big a deal? Does someone having a little more gold affect your ability to play and enjoy the game?
I won't deny there are items that can impact another's gameplay experience if they use it, but nothing that changes yours.
And please, no referencing WvW seige. It's been debunked to death.
RMT happens in every single online game, whether you like to acknowledge it or not.
People have been using real money for gold and items in WoW, EQ, RIFT, SWTOR. AoC, EVE and any other online game you can think of.
GW2 is just bringing that out in the open and providing a legitimate and safe marketplace to do so.
pretty sure I've heard this arguement right before diablo 3 came out...
Well the leveling speed does not really matter since I dont race or rush to max level, however there's people who do care. Imo that's not a big deal in any case.
Bigger deal is that buying gold will have a direct impact in the economy, that means every player basically. Also, I thought the cash shop is cosmetic only, like it's been held as such left and right for how long, but in fact I can buy anything with real cash that I can buy with ingame gold. That at least sounds quite a big deal to me, unless someone claims that ingame trading stands for nothing, which would make it useless, hard to believe that.
I'm not going to parade about it one way or another since I dont know how things turn out exactly after launch, but being able to buy everything with cash that you can buy with ingame gold at least sounds like something that cannot be simply shoved aside. If people feel compelled to take part in the cash shop because of the economy, trading, etc, then the shop might quickly turn into very sub-fee like entity, which would never happen with a true cosmetic-only shop.
Best case scenario, the cash shop impact on ingame prices and trading will be minimal. Lets hope for that, cheers.