I find it very annoying when people dont want to think outside the box and compare every new MMORPG to WoW. Dont get me wrong, i loved WoW, i had a lot of fun while it lasts, but in the end it became all the same from expansion to expansion (+5/10 levels, +one new continent, +new race, +NEW DUNGEONS, +3 NEW TIER GEAR).
Or that could be that people just want the same ol' WoW, but in different skin (hence why Rift is so popular).
And there you still have those 9 millions, who just love sticking to WoW, or are just too brainwashed to accept in their mind to try another video game (trust me, i saw this phenomenon IRL) or dont want to abandon it because of money already spent there.
And like i mentioned, you have people that find it hard to think outside a box, so they compare every new 'video game' (yes, even Skyrim) let alone MMORPG to WoW.
Yes, i speak of all of this from personal experience. I voted for third. People need to grow the %#@&; up. Or to learn to release from Orwellian shackles.
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2 Waiting for: Pathfinder Online
funny we just had a guy complain because GW2 supposedly didn't have Raids which is false. it has raids it just doesn't cut off people from getting to see the content or reuire people be a specific elitest type player to enjoy that function of the game. that's one of those 2004 WoW concepts people have tried to convert other games into.
I also haven't seen one clearly defined group of ex-wow players who talk like the OP suggests. Most people who have stopped playing WoW at one point or another have done so precisely because they got burnt out on many WoW features and are subsequently looking for something different. Those who still play WoW are doing just that: playing WoW. They probably won't be playing this game or any other MMO for the time being.
I'd also venture to guess that upwards of 80% of GW2 players have played WoW in some capacity in the past, making them "ex-WoWheads." And they very much aren't crying as the OP suggests.
Originally posted by Svarcanum I personally would like gw2 to be more like wow. Because I view gw2 as far superior to wow in every way except endgame. And because I like wow endgame I'll have to stay in wow. If gw2 had more classic endgame with organization and challenges to overcome (no, explorer mode won't be hard enough, not judging from the level 30 ones) then I could finally leave wow behind. As it is now I'll be stuck with a friggin' 8 year old game. But I can see tons of people finding a new home in gw2! Me, I'll return to wow come mop.
This is an interesting take on things. I personally see GW2 endgame as far superior to that of WoW. I mean, think about it... what's endgame in WoW?
PvP, and one raid. Period. Whatever the latest raid is in WoW, that's your PvE endgame. Don't get all your gear at once! Oh wait... you'll need to run that one raid many, many times to get your gear, so that's not a problem.
i have no problems if Anet puts in raids, but raids to lay down a challange, not a gear grind. If anet does support a gear grind for better stats iam out to neve return. I raided in many mmo's and i have no hair left on my head to start doing it again.
Originally posted by Svarcanum I personally would like gw2 to be more like wow. Because I view gw2 as far superior to wow in every way except endgame. And because I like wow endgame I'll have to stay in wow. If gw2 had more classic endgame with organization and challenges to overcome (no, explorer mode won't be hard enough, not judging from the level 30 ones) then I could finally leave wow behind. As it is now I'll be stuck with a friggin' 8 year old game. But I can see tons of people finding a new home in gw2! Me, I'll return to wow come mop.
This is an interesting take on things. I personally see GW2 endgame as far superior to that of WoW. I mean, think about it... what's endgame in WoW?
PvP, and one raid. Period. Whatever the latest raid is in WoW, that's your PvE endgame. Don't get all your gear at once! Oh wait... you'll need to run that one raid many, many times to get your gear, so that's not a problem.
Heres my solution. Buy MoP, get to max level, join a raiding guild, raid so many nights a week, play GW2 in your down time. Then you get raiding and GW2. *gasp* Everyone wins!
Its just as bad as the guy who wanted every single game put into one, guitar hero, SIMs, racing games, sport games, and also an MMO. Here's a solution, just play those games when you want, not expect a game to have it all. Logic... Just not a strong point in these forums I fear.
Originally posted by Svarcanum I personally would like gw2 to be more like wow. Because I view gw2 as far superior to wow in every way except endgame. And because I like wow endgame I'll have to stay in wow. If gw2 had more classic endgame with organization and challenges to overcome (no, explorer mode won't be hard enough, not judging from the level 30 ones) then I could finally leave wow behind. As it is now I'll be stuck with a friggin' 8 year old game. But I can see tons of people finding a new home in gw2! Me, I'll return to wow come mop.
This is an interesting take on things. I personally see GW2 endgame as far superior to that of WoW. I mean, think about it... what's endgame in WoW?
PvP, and one raid. Period. Whatever the latest raid is in WoW, that's your PvE endgame. Don't get all your gear at once! Oh wait... you'll need to run that one raid many, many times to get your gear, so that's not a problem.
Heres my solution. Buy MoP, get to max level, join a raiding guild, raid so many nights a week, play GW2 in your down time. Then you get raiding and GW2. *gasp* Everyone wins!
Its just as bad as the guy who wanted every single game put into one, guitar hero, SIMs, racing games, sport games, and also an MMO. Here's a solution, just play those games when you want, not expect a game to have it all. Logic... Just not a strong point in these forums I fear.
This is what I'll do. Even though I dislike playing more than one game at once.
Please stop labeling an entire portion of the genre's community.
Without WoW's success, there would not have been a Guild Wars. GW1 was made by ex-WoW developers.
Without WoW and ex-WoW players, we would not have as diverse of a community.
Everyone is welcome at the table. Just keep your criticism constructive and don't bash games that others like. Name calling is for the unintelligent and the politicians. I know we can be better than that.
And guess what one of the great parts of GW2 is? Without a monthly fee, you can play GW2 as either you main MMO or alongside a sub based one. Genius!
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
sorry op im a wowhead as yu call it n i dun care if a game is like wow or diffrent n i got a cpl o simple priciples 1.im to b able to play it on my single core pre pci -e comp n 2.it must have a trial so i can try it out to c if i think its fun or not
oh and in what way does it ruin yur enjoyment of a game if some1 says they want it 2 b a wow clone or not?
after all no1s forcing yu to read theyr comments n they dun call the shots anyway its the suits up at top of the company tht does n 99,9% of em only sees $$ nothing else they go with wow clones cause wow is the top dog atm if gw2 takes over yull c clones of tht instead its bout gettin as much profit as fast as possible.:)
and also many ppl havnt played any other game so they dont know of any other game like for example enb n so on
Originally posted by lustbust Lineage 2 has had raids/epic raids aswell as world bosses and that game is not a failure at all and is very old.Neither is Aion.To say every game that takes that formula is a failure just is not true.Both games might not be that big here but in other countries they are a way of life.
Yup, but that's what the OP tried to say. A Game can have raids, but don't need to follow the "RAID" (implying , Gear Tiering, Timesink (IDs, lockouts), Geargrind for hardmode) and beeing the only viable "Endgame" - Model like WoWs which evolved over the years and especially after "Vanilla" (WoW wasn't like that, it became the monster).
Yet you will find people everywhere moaning and bitching that a game can't even work without WoW's "RAID" (Endgame), and if it has it, it's just a inferior clone.
The sad part is, those people really can't even imagine a different set of "endgame" or "raids".
Originally posted by lustbust Lineage 2 has had raids/epic raids aswell as world bosses and that game is not a failure at all and is very old.Neither is Aion.To say every game that takes that formula is a failure just is not true.
Both games might not be that big here but in other countries they are a way of life.
Yup, but that's what the OP tried to say. A Game can have raids, but don't need to follow the "RAID" (implying , Gear Tiering, Timesink (IDs, lockouts), Geargrind for hardmode) and beeing the only viable "Endgame" - Model like WoWs which evolved over the years and especially after "Vanilla" (WoW wasn't like that, it became the monster).
Yet you will find people everywhere moaning and bitching that a game can't even work without WoW's "RAID" (Endgame), and if it has it, it's just a inferior clone.
The sad part is, those people really can't even imagine a different set of "endgame" or "raids".
Personally i think EQ2 instanced raids outshine WoW raids.
And thhe mass event feeling will be the major DE bosses that require dozens of people to join up either in Orr or the other areas.
By removing the timesink, and the reason to repeat content over and over for the same gear, Arenanet has create a fresh game. they could easilly add some instanced raids, with only the goal to beat these raids for the heck of beating them instead of getting better and better gear.
The biggest problem of GW2 is that they dont want people to endlessly repeat content and so they have to add much much more content to the game to keep everyone happy over the long run.
But then i really dislike the orriginal poll and some of the statements, i wish i would have been the first to report it, but i wasnt. So id say in before the close
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Whats with the wow hating ? And I haven't heard of even a single person saying that the game should be more wow like. You're pprobably thinking of some other game.
I don't play WoW, so I don't know much about its statistics, but wasn't there a survey / web page that indicated that less than 5% of WoW's players have played high-level raids?
I think there was some sort of statistic around the end of Vanilla that indicated less than 1% of players had experienced the original Naxx. Not sure where it was from or how accurate it was.
That is not reflective of the current raid environment in WoW. Ever since BC, Blizzard has been taking steps to make raid content more accessible to everyone.
The data seems to indicate that, on average, 5%-10% of the player base in WoW have historically participated in their raid content. Now this does not mean finishing a raid tier, it simply means having killed at least one raid boss.
This seemed to increase during ICC, when data seems to suggest that almost 20% of people raided (e.g. killed at least one boss) when they started instituting progressive raid buffs reaching 30%
The last data that I saw was on Firelands, where 1.5% of the player base completed FL on normal.
It was because raid participation was so low, and development time spend on creating raids so high, that they instituted LFR. Of course, this was met by a HUGE backlash from the small but vocal raiding community, who felt that the associated gear should be exclusive to them. This is one recent argument on the topic with the upcoming MoP expansion.
Additionally, LFR creates an issue of content duration, meaning that once people have run an instance for a few weeks, the novelty wears off, whereas if you put a carrot far off in the distance, developers hoped that players would continue to pay a sub to work their way toward it.
So you have a small but vocal minority demanding content exclusive to their subgroup with gear and rewards exclusive to them.
"Loading screens" are not "instances". Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
Its ok to admit that WoW jsut does everything better than every other game does and possibly can right now....you may hate it but its true.
Think about this....If some game came out with a really revolutionary feature that players LOVED and talked about....Blizzard would just do it in their game where almost every MMO gamer has a character...and they would do it better, more fluid and refined. How? Because they have BILLIONS of dollars to do it with an a suprior engine capable of featuring Multiple player and computer characters on a screen without crashing your system. NO OTHER GAME OR ENGINE CAN COME CLOSE!
Truth hurts.
Dragnon - Guildmaster - Albion Central Bank in Albion Online
I remember playing Rift when it was in beta and commenting "This game reminds me alot of WoW and WAR"..... ANother player then responded "as a former WoW player this is exactly what we are looking for: WoW in a different skin"
LOL ... the OP think he can change behavior of OTHER PEOPLE by posting on the Internet???
If someone likes WOW type of games, i see no reason why he should not clamour for similar style games in other setting. I don't see why he should not vote with his wallet.
I suggest the OP does the same ... vote with his wallet and see what happens.
Originally posted by Theocritus I remember playing Rift when it was in beta and commenting "This game reminds me alot of WoW and WAR"..... ANother player then responded "as a former WoW player this is exactly what we are looking for: WoW in a different skin"
I wouldn't mind WOW reskinned with a sci-fi setting, or a super hero setting. Hence I play DCUO.
Originally posted by Icewhite Why is there this determined effort to turn WoW and GW2 against each other?
I'm not sure it's a case of turning them against each other, although for some that's probably true. For me it's more an effort to make them different. If GW2 was made to be the same as WoW, what's the point in playing it. If I want to play WoW, I'd just play WoW.
By making them offer a different experience you get the chance to play 2 distinct games, each with different things to offer, and enjoy both. There's no reason for people to pick one over the other, or not to have fun in both of them. You can have a favourite, sure. But why deprive yourself of an alternative for when you get a bit burnt out? GW2's B2P model fits so well with this idea I'm surprised more WoW players (or any sub based MMO for that matter) aren't jumping at the chance to have a backup MMO that has excellent production values and will only cost the price of the box.
I voted "Go back to WoW and roll a Panda" for the lolz. But... let's look at it like this.
Ex-WoW-heads = 20 million VS sane people = 2 million. I'm not sure but I think the ex-WoW-heads are gonna win. At least if any MMO developer is looking for the coins. Or maybe a developer can trick ex-WoW-heads into liking something they didn't think they would like?
Its ok to admit that WoW jsut does everything better than every other game does and possibly can right now....you may hate it but its true.
Think about this....If some game came out with a really revolutionary feature that players LOVED and talked about....Blizzard would just do it in their game where almost every MMO gamer has a character...and they would do it better, more fluid and refined. How? Because they have BILLIONS of dollars to do it with an a suprior engine capable of featuring Multiple player and computer characters on a screen without crashing your system. NO OTHER GAME OR ENGINE CAN COME CLOSE!
Truth hurts.
This is totally the truth. I bet in 10 years, some kid is going to learn about ´pokemon´ and say.... it is just like WOW!!
The OP is a bit off base. I think for the most part it has been the developers that have fallen into the copy trap. The problem is that WOW is very smooth to play.. fast reactions to keypressed, instant visuals and a fast UI. If developers spent more time trying to copy THOSE features they would be doing much better. I honestly can´t play another MMORPG without it feeling sluggish. Or games like AOC with decent graphics, but your keypresses were completely seperated from what you were seeing on the screen.
GW2? who cares. it doesn´t have a subscription model, why does it need pve tiers. I don´t personally think it is anything special, and it seems it´s most únique´ feature are Rifts... buy hey hey.. don´t tell that to the fanboys.
Will be intersesting to see if it outsells MOP... should be easy right? since 8 of WOW´s 9 million subscribers are in China.. that only leaves 1M in the US to buy mop next month.
In fact, before EQ2 and later Wow there were no mmo's with epically boring pve raids. The closest things that existed were world bosses. The only end game we had was PVP.
i stay here !!!
i dunno why the end game has to be a boring repititive raid against NPC and not a balanaced/funny PvP ?!?!
Comments
I voted for third...
I find it very annoying when people dont want to think outside the box and compare every new MMORPG to WoW. Dont get me wrong, i loved WoW, i had a lot of fun while it lasts, but in the end it became all the same from expansion to expansion (+5/10 levels, +one new continent, +new race, +NEW DUNGEONS, +3 NEW TIER GEAR).
Or that could be that people just want the same ol' WoW, but in different skin (hence why Rift is so popular).
And there you still have those 9 millions, who just love sticking to WoW, or are just too brainwashed to accept in their mind to try another video game (trust me, i saw this phenomenon IRL) or dont want to abandon it because of money already spent there.
And like i mentioned, you have people that find it hard to think outside a box, so they compare every new 'video game' (yes, even Skyrim) let alone MMORPG to WoW.
Yes, i speak of all of this from personal experience. I voted for third. People need to grow the %#@&; up. Or to learn to release from Orwellian shackles.
Main MMO at the moment: Guild Wars 2
Waiting for: Pathfinder Online
funny we just had a guy complain because GW2 supposedly didn't have Raids which is false. it has raids it just doesn't cut off people from getting to see the content or reuire people be a specific elitest type player to enjoy that function of the game.
that's one of those 2004 WoW concepts people have tried to convert other games into.
I also haven't seen one clearly defined group of ex-wow players who talk like the OP suggests. Most people who have stopped playing WoW at one point or another have done so precisely because they got burnt out on many WoW features and are subsequently looking for something different. Those who still play WoW are doing just that: playing WoW. They probably won't be playing this game or any other MMO for the time being.
I'd also venture to guess that upwards of 80% of GW2 players have played WoW in some capacity in the past, making them "ex-WoWheads." And they very much aren't crying as the OP suggests.
This is an interesting take on things. I personally see GW2 endgame as far superior to that of WoW. I mean, think about it... what's endgame in WoW?
PvP, and one raid. Period. Whatever the latest raid is in WoW, that's your PvE endgame. Don't get all your gear at once! Oh wait... you'll need to run that one raid many, many times to get your gear, so that's not a problem.
Oderint, dum metuant.
i have no problems if Anet puts in raids, but raids to lay down a challange, not a gear grind.
If anet does support a gear grind for better stats iam out to neve return.
I raided in many mmo's and i have no hair left on my head to start doing it again.
Raids for fun = ok
raids for gear = exit
Heres my solution. Buy MoP, get to max level, join a raiding guild, raid so many nights a week, play GW2 in your down time. Then you get raiding and GW2. *gasp* Everyone wins!
Its just as bad as the guy who wanted every single game put into one, guitar hero, SIMs, racing games, sport games, and also an MMO. Here's a solution, just play those games when you want, not expect a game to have it all. Logic... Just not a strong point in these forums I fear.
This is what I'll do. Even though I dislike playing more than one game at once.
Please stop labeling an entire portion of the genre's community.
Without WoW's success, there would not have been a Guild Wars. GW1 was made by ex-WoW developers.
Without WoW and ex-WoW players, we would not have as diverse of a community.
Everyone is welcome at the table. Just keep your criticism constructive and don't bash games that others like. Name calling is for the unintelligent and the politicians. I know we can be better than that.
And guess what one of the great parts of GW2 is? Without a monthly fee, you can play GW2 as either you main MMO or alongside a sub based one. Genius!
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
sorry op im a wowhead as yu call it n i dun care if a game is like wow or diffrent n i got a cpl o simple priciples 1.im to b able to play it on my single core pre pci -e comp n 2.it must have a trial so i can try it out to c if i think its fun or not
oh and in what way does it ruin yur enjoyment of a game if some1 says they want it 2 b a wow clone or not?
after all no1s forcing yu to read theyr comments n they dun call the shots anyway its the suits up at top of the company tht does n 99,9% of em only sees $$ nothing else they go with wow clones cause wow is the top dog atm if gw2 takes over yull c clones of tht instead its bout gettin as much profit as fast as possible.:)
and also many ppl havnt played any other game so they dont know of any other game like for example enb n so on
Yup, but that's what the OP tried to say. A Game can have raids, but don't need to follow the "RAID" (implying , Gear Tiering, Timesink (IDs, lockouts), Geargrind for hardmode) and beeing the only viable "Endgame" - Model like WoWs which evolved over the years and especially after "Vanilla" (WoW wasn't like that, it became the monster).
Yet you will find people everywhere moaning and bitching that a game can't even work without WoW's "RAID" (Endgame), and if it has it, it's just a inferior clone.
The sad part is, those people really can't even imagine a different set of "endgame" or "raids".
Personally i think EQ2 instanced raids outshine WoW raids.
And thhe mass event feeling will be the major DE bosses that require dozens of people to join up either in Orr or the other areas.
By removing the timesink, and the reason to repeat content over and over for the same gear, Arenanet has create a fresh game. they could easilly add some instanced raids, with only the goal to beat these raids for the heck of beating them instead of getting better and better gear.
The biggest problem of GW2 is that they dont want people to endlessly repeat content and so they have to add much much more content to the game to keep everyone happy over the long run.
But then i really dislike the orriginal poll and some of the statements, i wish i would have been the first to report it, but i wasnt. So id say in before the close
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Whats with the wow hating ? And I haven't heard of even a single person saying that the game should be more wow like. You're pprobably thinking of some other game.
The data seems to indicate that, on average, 5%-10% of the player base in WoW have historically participated in their raid content. Now this does not mean finishing a raid tier, it simply means having killed at least one raid boss.
This seemed to increase during ICC, when data seems to suggest that almost 20% of people raided (e.g. killed at least one boss) when they started instituting progressive raid buffs reaching 30%
The last data that I saw was on Firelands, where 1.5% of the player base completed FL on normal.
It was because raid participation was so low, and development time spend on creating raids so high, that they instituted LFR. Of course, this was met by a HUGE backlash from the small but vocal raiding community, who felt that the associated gear should be exclusive to them. This is one recent argument on the topic with the upcoming MoP expansion.
http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4879017939?page=1
Additionally, LFR creates an issue of content duration, meaning that once people have run an instance for a few weeks, the novelty wears off, whereas if you put a carrot far off in the distance, developers hoped that players would continue to pay a sub to work their way toward it.
So you have a small but vocal minority demanding content exclusive to their subgroup with gear and rewards exclusive to them.
"Loading screens" are not "instances".
Your personal efforts to troll any game will not, in fact, impact the success or failure of said game.
For WoW players offended by the OP:
He does not represent the GW2 community.
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
This, glad its reported.
In before lock & delete?
Its ok to admit that WoW jsut does everything better than every other game does and possibly can right now....you may hate it but its true.
Think about this....If some game came out with a really revolutionary feature that players LOVED and talked about....Blizzard would just do it in their game where almost every MMO gamer has a character...and they would do it better, more fluid and refined. How? Because they have BILLIONS of dollars to do it with an a suprior engine capable of featuring Multiple player and computer characters on a screen without crashing your system. NO OTHER GAME OR ENGINE CAN COME CLOSE!
Truth hurts.
Dragnon - Guildmaster - Albion Central Bank in Albion Online
www.albioncentralbank.enjin.com
Funny when a bunch of ex-WoW players complain about other ex-WoW players.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
And how would you know that it's the same discussion about raiding every day when you rarely come to these forums and just read the news articles?
Either you're lying that you just read the news articles or you don't have any idea what we're talking about since 2006.
I maintain this List of Sandbox MMORPGs. Please post or send PM for corrections and suggestions.
LOL ... the OP think he can change behavior of OTHER PEOPLE by posting on the Internet???
If someone likes WOW type of games, i see no reason why he should not clamour for similar style games in other setting. I don't see why he should not vote with his wallet.
I suggest the OP does the same ... vote with his wallet and see what happens.
I wouldn't mind WOW reskinned with a sci-fi setting, or a super hero setting. Hence I play DCUO.
I'm not sure it's a case of turning them against each other, although for some that's probably true. For me it's more an effort to make them different. If GW2 was made to be the same as WoW, what's the point in playing it. If I want to play WoW, I'd just play WoW.
By making them offer a different experience you get the chance to play 2 distinct games, each with different things to offer, and enjoy both. There's no reason for people to pick one over the other, or not to have fun in both of them. You can have a favourite, sure. But why deprive yourself of an alternative for when you get a bit burnt out? GW2's B2P model fits so well with this idea I'm surprised more WoW players (or any sub based MMO for that matter) aren't jumping at the chance to have a backup MMO that has excellent production values and will only cost the price of the box.
I voted "Go back to WoW and roll a Panda" for the lolz. But... let's look at it like this.
Ex-WoW-heads = 20 million VS sane people = 2 million. I'm not sure but I think the ex-WoW-heads are gonna win. At least if any MMO developer is looking for the coins. Or maybe a developer can trick ex-WoW-heads into liking something they didn't think they would like?
This is totally the truth. I bet in 10 years, some kid is going to learn about ´pokemon´ and say.... it is just like WOW!!
The OP is a bit off base. I think for the most part it has been the developers that have fallen into the copy trap. The problem is that WOW is very smooth to play.. fast reactions to keypressed, instant visuals and a fast UI. If developers spent more time trying to copy THOSE features they would be doing much better. I honestly can´t play another MMORPG without it feeling sluggish. Or games like AOC with decent graphics, but your keypresses were completely seperated from what you were seeing on the screen.
GW2? who cares. it doesn´t have a subscription model, why does it need pve tiers. I don´t personally think it is anything special, and it seems it´s most únique´ feature are Rifts... buy hey hey.. don´t tell that to the fanboys.
Will be intersesting to see if it outsells MOP... should be easy right? since 8 of WOW´s 9 million subscribers are in China.. that only leaves 1M in the US to buy mop next month.
i stay here !!!
i dunno why the end game has to be a boring repititive raid against NPC and not a balanaced/funny PvP ?!?!