Originally posted by Svarcanum I personally would like gw2 to be more like wow. Because I view gw2 as far superior to wow in every way except endgame. And because I like wow endgame I'll have to stay in wow. If gw2 had more classic endgame with organization and challenges to overcome (no, explorer mode won't be hard enough, not judging from the level 30 ones) then I could finally leave wow behind. As it is now I'll be stuck with a friggin' 8 year old game. But I can see tons of people finding a new home in gw2! Me, I'll return to wow come mop.
But WoW has abysmal endgame... tiered raiding is a broken system that most MMOs got rid of back in 2001.
i only voted "grow up and try something new" BECAUSE i am assuming that by "Ex-WoWhead" you are specifically speaking about the immature people among the WoW community, which is not every ex(or current)WoW player
Originally posted by Svarcanum I personally would like gw2 to be more like wow. Because I view gw2 as far superior to wow in every way except endgame. And because I like wow endgame I'll have to stay in wow. If gw2 had more classic endgame with organization and challenges to overcome (no, explorer mode won't be hard enough, not judging from the level 30 ones) then I could finally leave wow behind. As it is now I'll be stuck with a friggin' 8 year old game. But I can see tons of people finding a new home in gw2! Me, I'll return to wow come mop.
But WoW has abysmal endgame... tiered raiding is a broken system that most MMOs got rid of back in 2001.
Truthfully, I only came here to check who named themselves Tibernicus but since I'm here.... Screw formulated gameplay. I refuse to buy another game that the dev's haven't innovated the shit out of. If that means no more mmorpgs for a while then so be it.
Watchdog, the new GTA and some other shit is coming out soon anyway.
In fact, before EQ2 and later Wow there were no mmo's with epically boring pve raids. The closest things that existed were world bosses. The only end game we had was PVP.
Would it be flaming if I said this is the most idiotic post I have ever read? I hope not because I truly believe that.
I mean:
That's not even close to the only raid bosses in the original EverQuest. This was the game that basically invented raiding, and to say it had no endgame aside from PvP is hilarious considering EQ had only about 2 or 3 PvP servers out of more servers than I can count on both my hands.
Let me just interject with a little fact from an ex-wowplayer since Beta.
Us wow players DO NOT want a game just like WoW. The reason games that try and clone themselves to be just like WoW is BECAUSE they are just like wow.
What WoW players want is a game that takes everything we did love about WoW, yes the raids, and 5-mans and lore, and overall fun factor, and EXPANDS on that formula, adds to it, adjusts a little but while still keeping it there.
Problem is, companies just see that wow is making bank and they make a WoW clone, WoW players go and are like, wtf, I already have WoW, why would I play this new game that is exactly like it, I will just go back to WoW.
Don't blame the players for shitty games, blame the companies that fall into one of two catagories
1:Company that makes wow replica's and fails
2:Company that makes a go so different then WoW that most players have a hard time transitioning. These games do ok.
But there is no company willing to make a natural evolution of WoW, because either they don't want to take the risk and play it safe, or they are to afraid to be accociated with anything WoW at all and want to cater to the more niche crowed.
GW2 is not my game by anymeans, I just did not like the feel of it. Honestly, it jsut felt it lacked depth to me. But I had moments where I was like, "oh wow I like how they did this, or this system should be in more games". With WoW clones, you don't get those ah ha moments, and WoW players don't wan't another WoW. Its to much work to start over in a game that is exactly what they left. So the game fails, proving that players DO NOT want another WoW clone.
Vitrolic snobbery yet again being demonstrated by GW2 fans all over this thread.
As for the OP - "It seems that every game released after 2006 encounters these same boneheads in the forums saying "I won't play that until its an exact clone of WoW".
Never seen that. Ever.
You appear to be making up a lot of facts here, Johnny.
Originally posted by Svarcanum I personally would like gw2 to be more like wow. Because I view gw2 as far superior to wow in every way except endgame. And because I like wow endgame I'll have to stay in wow. If gw2 had more classic endgame with organization and challenges to overcome (no, explorer mode won't be hard enough, not judging from the level 30 ones) then I could finally leave wow behind. As it is now I'll be stuck with a friggin' 8 year old game. But I can see tons of people finding a new home in gw2! Me, I'll return to wow come mop.
But WoW has abysmal endgame... tiered raiding is a broken system that most MMOs got rid of back in 2001.
Lol... what?
"Back in 2001" there were not many MMOs, and frankly, I can't remember that any of them "got rid of tiered raiding", which suggests they had it, but removed it.
Although it is SORT of true,name one game that players are not playing EXACTLY like WOW?I know of ONLY one and even that game has turned into a sort of WOW like game and that WAS FFXI.You can have any design yo uwant,but if players still play the game like Wow,how does it change anything?
Example i am looking forward to Archeage,but i know darn well it wil lbe another WOW clone,following markers and arrows around.Basically i won't need to think at all,the game will tell me where to go and what to do.
Every other game has you following markers around to get your xp and loot.FFXI is the ONLY game that did not do that,so unless your playing vanilla FFXI,i doubt your plea has much merit?Even the new FFXIV another Square Enix title was not using markers,but now states they are going to add markers to hand hold players around that game as well,sad really that EVERY game HAS turned into Wow.
I remember playing all my favorite rpg's back in the day and i was not follwoing markers and arrows around a map.It gets so bad,to the point you don't read the quests,you just click really fast and follow the arrows.
Name one game that players are not playing EXACTLY like WOW? Asheron's Call
EQ1, had to wait a week for some bosses to re spawn. Good days. Too bad EQ2 couldn't have been EQ1 with better graphics. That's where the first online raiding started. WoW made it easier and more accessable so anyone could do it without it being a big deal. That's what people are used to since even a guildless solo'er can get in raids these days.
Oh I hate it. Whenever there is a new game trying to do new things, WoW folks will come into the beta en masse and start screaming "waah NPCs need floating !!" or "omg everything is too hard" or or "wtf is a death penalty! get rid of this!" or "where are the instances? why are there other players in my dungeons!?" or "omg there's no quests WHAT DO I DO". I've seen this type of response cripple games from LotRO, to Vanguard, to WAR. Even AoC, when the WoW raiders showed up and thought 8 direction combat was "too hard".
Oh I hate it. Whenever there is a new game trying to do new things, Anti WoW folks will come into the beta en masse and start screaming "WAAH That NPC says things WoW NPC says, how 'original" or "OMG Everything is too easy, like WoW" or or "WTF? No Death pentalty? How did I get into WoW? When I die I want to have to play for 3 days to get my 15 million exp I lost because the phone rang when I was trying to kill The Uber Star Dragon of the 75 man raid" or "Whaa what are these quest things? WoW has quests too, and it sucks cuz I cant do anything I want!" I've seen this sort of response to every single beta I have been in since WoW. As for '8 direction combat" ummmm WoW players didnt say it was too hard, AoC devs said it was too hard to code
Before you point and cry "OMG A WoW fanboy" because well I don't want to hold up that finger in your general direction...Yes I am a fan of WoW, and I've played it since early beta. Is it perfect? Hell no...Does it have problems? Ayup. Is the game still enjoyable to me? Ofcourse, as if it wasn't anymore, I'd not be playing it. I'm also a Bioware fan, a Turbine fan, I play and staff Funcom games..Heck I even play Asheron's Call still.
People need to grow up and realize EVERY new game will try and steal away from the current 'big dog' currently that's WoW with their 10 million subs. I've seen people saying "That doesn't impress me..." and if that honestly doesn't you have no idea just how much that is. Figure that out folks...10 million people, at even 15 bucks a month is mroe money that anyone would know what to do with...Sure I know that isnt total profit but that is STILL a heck of a lot of cash. New game devs WANT that cash...So they will steal here and there to make their game more like the big dog....Some companys do it TOO much...As there have been a few game betas I've seen over the past few years that caused the thoughts of "I wonder if Blizzard is going to look at this game..The UI is the SAME." and by that I mean everything..Take the default UI, with quest info shown the same as WoW, but round the edges and boom....Forget what F2P game it was but I havent seen it around anymore so I guess they got closed down.
What someone needs to do is make a game and break all that. Until that happens, people will compare them to WoW because more people play that then more games out there, and nothing besides itself will change that. Sad to say, but its true.
Oh I hate it. Whenever there is a new game trying to do new things, WoW folks will come into the beta en masse and start screaming "waah NPCs need floating !!" or "omg everything is too hard" or or "wtf is a death penalty! get rid of this!" or "where are the instances? why are there other players in my dungeons!?" or "omg there's no quests WHAT DO I DO". I've seen this type of response cripple games from LotRO, to Vanguard, to WAR. Even AoC, when the WoW raiders showed up and thought 8 direction combat was "too hard".
Oh I hate it. Whenever there is a new game trying to do new things, Anti WoW folks will come into the beta en masse and start screaming "WAAH That NPC says things WoW NPC says, how 'original" or "OMG Everything is too easy, like WoW" or or "WTF? No Death pentalty? How did I get into WoW? When I die I want to have to play for 3 days to get my 15 million exp I lost because the phone rang when I was trying to kill The Uber Star Dragon of the 75 man raid" or "Whaa what are these quest things? WoW has quests too, and it sucks cuz I cant do anything I want!" I've seen this sort of response to every single beta I have been in since WoW. As for '8 direction combat" ummmm WoW players didnt say it was too hard, AoC devs said it was too hard to code
Before you point and cry "OMG A WoW fanboy" because well I don't want to hold up that finger in your general direction...Yes I am a fan of WoW, and I've played it since early beta. Is it perfect? Hell no...Does it have problems? Ayup. Is the game still enjoyable to me? Ofcourse, as if it wasn't anymore, I'd not be playing it. I'm also a Bioware fan, a Turbine fan, I play and staff Funcom games..Heck I even play Asheron's Call still.
People need to grow up and realize EVERY new game will try and steal away from the current 'big dog' currently that's WoW with their 10 million subs. I've seen people saying "That doesn't impress me..." and if that honestly doesn't you have no idea just how much that is. Figure that out folks...10 million people, at even 15 bucks a month is mroe money that anyone would know what to do with...Sure I know that isnt total profit but that is STILL a heck of a lot of cash. New game devs WANT that cash...So they will steal here and there to make their game more like the big dog....Some companys do it TOO much...As there have been a few game betas I've seen over the past few years that caused the thoughts of "I wonder if Blizzard is going to look at this game..The UI is the SAME." and by that I mean everything..Take the default UI, with quest info shown the same as WoW, but round the edges and boom....Forget what F2P game it was but I havent seen it around anymore so I guess they got closed down.
What someone needs to do is make a game and break all that. Until that happens, people will compare them to WoW because more people play that then more games out there, and nothing besides itself will change that. Sad to say, but its true.
This. Just as we have some whiny WoW fans we also have whiny anti-WoW haters. @Tibernicus, I doubt that a lot (if any WoW players) go to a new MMO and say it is too difficult usually because a) that MMO isn't more difficult and b) because very few people find any MMO difficult and c) you are making this all up. But I guess it is too much for WoW haters to realise that not everyone playing WoW is a kid, immature, mentally challenged and wants easy mode.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Originally posted by emperorwings EQ1, had to wait a week for some bosses to re spawn. Good days. Too bad EQ2 couldn't have been EQ1 with better graphics. That's where the first online raiding started. WoW made it easier and more accessable so anyone could do it without it being a big deal. That's what people are used to since even a guildless solo'er can get in raids these days.
Raiding in EQ was almost too painful to even bother. Had a MUCH easier time keeping 40 people together and interesting in Molten Core than 100000000000000 people to kill one dragon that took two hours for two pieces of lewt....
Yeah ok so I exagerated a little As for were 'raiding' started... That's a little harder to say....The Realm Online was the first MMO to have instanced content...Anarchy Online added to that a lot
Originally posted by emperorwings EQ1, had to wait a week for some bosses to re spawn. Good days. Too bad EQ2 couldn't have been EQ1 with better graphics. That's where the first online raiding started. WoW made it easier and more accessable so anyone could do it without it being a big deal. That's what people are used to since even a guildless solo'er can get in raids these days.
Which is a GOOD thing. I was doing hard core raid back in WOTLK.
I have to file an application with a top guild. Have a trial raid before admitted. Commited to a raid schedule. This is freaking GAMEPLAY for entertainment, and it feels like a job.
LFR changes all that. Raiding is gaming, it is ENTERTAINMENT, not a job. Of course it should be assessible ANYTIME whenever a player feels like it.
In fact, if not for LFR, i wouldn't come back to WOW. It is well known that only 2% of the players have raid Sunwell ... well ... that is not a GAME that i want.
Comments
But WoW has abysmal endgame... tiered raiding is a broken system that most MMOs got rid of back in 2001.
Truthfully, I only came here to check who named themselves Tibernicus but since I'm here.... Screw formulated gameplay. I refuse to buy another game that the dev's haven't innovated the shit out of. If that means no more mmorpgs for a while then so be it.
Watchdog, the new GTA and some other shit is coming out soon anyway.
Would it be flaming if I said this is the most idiotic post I have ever read? I hope not because I truly believe that.
I mean:
That's not even close to the only raid bosses in the original EverQuest. This was the game that basically invented raiding, and to say it had no endgame aside from PvP is hilarious considering EQ had only about 2 or 3 PvP servers out of more servers than I can count on both my hands.
Let me just interject with a little fact from an ex-wowplayer since Beta.
Us wow players DO NOT want a game just like WoW. The reason games that try and clone themselves to be just like WoW is BECAUSE they are just like wow.
What WoW players want is a game that takes everything we did love about WoW, yes the raids, and 5-mans and lore, and overall fun factor, and EXPANDS on that formula, adds to it, adjusts a little but while still keeping it there.
Problem is, companies just see that wow is making bank and they make a WoW clone, WoW players go and are like, wtf, I already have WoW, why would I play this new game that is exactly like it, I will just go back to WoW.
Don't blame the players for shitty games, blame the companies that fall into one of two catagories
1:Company that makes wow replica's and fails
2:Company that makes a go so different then WoW that most players have a hard time transitioning. These games do ok.
But there is no company willing to make a natural evolution of WoW, because either they don't want to take the risk and play it safe, or they are to afraid to be accociated with anything WoW at all and want to cater to the more niche crowed.
GW2 is not my game by anymeans, I just did not like the feel of it. Honestly, it jsut felt it lacked depth to me. But I had moments where I was like, "oh wow I like how they did this, or this system should be in more games". With WoW clones, you don't get those ah ha moments, and WoW players don't wan't another WoW. Its to much work to start over in a game that is exactly what they left. So the game fails, proving that players DO NOT want another WoW clone.
Vitrolic snobbery yet again being demonstrated by GW2 fans all over this thread.
As for the OP - "It seems that every game released after 2006 encounters these same boneheads in the forums saying "I won't play that until its an exact clone of WoW".
Never seen that. Ever.
You appear to be making up a lot of facts here, Johnny.
Lol... what?
"Back in 2001" there were not many MMOs, and frankly, I can't remember that any of them "got rid of tiered raiding", which suggests they had it, but removed it.
Name one game that players are not playing EXACTLY like WOW? Asheron's Call
This isn't a signature, you just think it is.
Reported for trolling. + 1 post count. Why is this in the General Discussion forum not the WoW forums?
I also think that option 3 applies to you. Also what's with the Halo option? How random was that ?D:
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Oh I hate it. Whenever there is a new game trying to do new things, Anti WoW folks will come into the beta en masse and start screaming "WAAH That NPC says things WoW NPC says, how 'original" or "OMG Everything is too easy, like WoW" or or "WTF? No Death pentalty? How did I get into WoW? When I die I want to have to play for 3 days to get my 15 million exp I lost because the phone rang when I was trying to kill The Uber Star Dragon of the 75 man raid" or "Whaa what are these quest things? WoW has quests too, and it sucks cuz I cant do anything I want!" I've seen this sort of response to every single beta I have been in since WoW. As for '8 direction combat" ummmm WoW players didnt say it was too hard, AoC devs said it was too hard to code
Before you point and cry "OMG A WoW fanboy" because well I don't want to hold up that finger in your general direction...Yes I am a fan of WoW, and I've played it since early beta. Is it perfect? Hell no...Does it have problems? Ayup. Is the game still enjoyable to me? Ofcourse, as if it wasn't anymore, I'd not be playing it. I'm also a Bioware fan, a Turbine fan, I play and staff Funcom games..Heck I even play Asheron's Call still.
People need to grow up and realize EVERY new game will try and steal away from the current 'big dog' currently that's WoW with their 10 million subs. I've seen people saying "That doesn't impress me..." and if that honestly doesn't you have no idea just how much that is. Figure that out folks...10 million people, at even 15 bucks a month is mroe money that anyone would know what to do with...Sure I know that isnt total profit but that is STILL a heck of a lot of cash. New game devs WANT that cash...So they will steal here and there to make their game more like the big dog....Some companys do it TOO much...As there have been a few game betas I've seen over the past few years that caused the thoughts of "I wonder if Blizzard is going to look at this game..The UI is the SAME." and by that I mean everything..Take the default UI, with quest info shown the same as WoW, but round the edges and boom....Forget what F2P game it was but I havent seen it around anymore so I guess they got closed down.
What someone needs to do is make a game and break all that. Until that happens, people will compare them to WoW because more people play that then more games out there, and nothing besides itself will change that. Sad to say, but its true.
This. Just as we have some whiny WoW fans we also have whiny anti-WoW haters. @Tibernicus, I doubt that a lot (if any WoW players) go to a new MMO and say it is too difficult usually because a) that MMO isn't more difficult and b) because very few people find any MMO difficult and c) you are making this all up. But I guess it is too much for WoW haters to realise that not everyone playing WoW is a kid, immature, mentally challenged and wants easy mode.
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Raiding in EQ was almost too painful to even bother. Had a MUCH easier time keeping 40 people together and interesting in Molten Core than 100000000000000 people to kill one dragon that took two hours for two pieces of lewt....
Yeah ok so I exagerated a little
As for were 'raiding' started... That's a little harder to say....The Realm Online was the first MMO to have instanced content...Anarchy Online added to that a lot
Which is a GOOD thing. I was doing hard core raid back in WOTLK.
I have to file an application with a top guild. Have a trial raid before admitted. Commited to a raid schedule. This is freaking GAMEPLAY for entertainment, and it feels like a job.
LFR changes all that. Raiding is gaming, it is ENTERTAINMENT, not a job. Of course it should be assessible ANYTIME whenever a player feels like it.
In fact, if not for LFR, i wouldn't come back to WOW. It is well known that only 2% of the players have raid Sunwell ... well ... that is not a GAME that i want.