Originally posted by nariusseldon Originally posted by Theocritus I remember playing Rift when it was in beta and commenting "This game reminds me alot of WoW and WAR"..... ANother player then responded "as a former WoW player this is exactly what we are looking for: WoW in a different skin"
I wouldn't mind WOW reskinned with a sci-fi setting, or a super hero setting. Hence I play DCUO.
Swtor be perfect for you!
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Originally posted by Theocritus I remember playing Rift when it was in beta and commenting "This game reminds me alot of WoW and WAR"..... ANother player then responded "as a former WoW player this is exactly what we are looking for: WoW in a different skin"
The 'problem' (I guess that word fits) with most MMO's today is that they say "Hey, we've got a great idea for a game, a whole world with lore and history..even some original type visuals" in hopes that their game will 'new and revitializating' to the genre. The problem is that to make the game 'the next big thing' they look to the current big things, take a bit from game A a little from Game B and a dash of C and come up with a game, where the UI will remind players of their 'old love' in hopes of hooking them. This is the way MMO's have been done ever since EQ decided "Hey! Lets take that M.U.D idea, but add GRAPHICS to it" The whole industy has been building on iteself ever since.
A good thing? Bad thing? Sometimes it's both. For the record yes, I am a WoW player and I still play the game. WoW was not my first MMO, my first was back with MUD/MUCK/MUSH before the MMO craze hit. I've had my brain picked for many games from EQ to Star Wars The Old Republic and have seen good games die a horrible death and unable to truely speak of them because of evil unending NDA's. People love the games they love for whatever reasons. The game designers make their worlds, then the companys try and take enough to make a WoW player, or EQ2 player look at their game, feel comfrtable playing it because "Well it's almost like WoW" so they will stuck around. Sometimes this works, other times people cry "WoW Clone!"
Bah...It's 5:30 in the morning, I'm insomniatic, and rambly.....Sue me
The industry makes change, but only so much to try and suck us 'old timers' into the 'new thing' with hints of worlds gone by.
Please stop labeling an entire portion of the genre's community.
Without WoW's success, there would not have been a Guild Wars. GW1 was made by ex-WoW developers.
Without WoW and ex-WoW players, we would not have as diverse of a community.
Everyone is welcome at the table. Just keep your criticism constructive and don't bash games that others like. Name calling is for the unintelligent and the politicians. I know we can be better than that.
And guess what one of the great parts of GW2 is? Without a monthly fee, you can play GW2 as either you main MMO or alongside a sub based one. Genius!
The from you so called "ex-wow" developers had their game (GW1) ready in 2004 already while it was in development for at least 4 years so no, the success of wow has nothing to do with GW1 nor GW2.
MMOS existed at least 6 years prior to wow so there would still have been a diverse community here without it too.
That's the whole issue here, people that are praising wow THAT high that it's getting ridicoulos. -.-
Is it just the raid thing? What I keep seeing are posts on the Raids. GW2 doesn't have the traditional raids, so it either is or is not better than WoW because of that one feature.
Here's what I think. These forums are so entrenched in the idea that they have to take issue with something, that posters throw things out there until there's something to fight about. Create an enemy, tear them down. The difference in this case seems to be that things have escalated from "Your game sucks" straight to "You suck" without any of the usual steps in between. Maybe the forums are just getting more efficient.
Love it.
You have just described forums everywhere! Vocal minorities rule. We get a thread where a few argue over the topic but hundreds or thousands read it judging by hits. They read what these few dynamic people post and form opinions based upon those posts. Not saying people are stuipid but it's almost subconscious. I was in the midst of downloading Mortal Online and cancelled it upon reading some forums. Should have tried it but now i'm in a torpor mode for the coming winter and must hibernate.
Why do ex-WoWheads keep trying to turn every mmo into Wow?
If you want to play Wow, then go play Wow and quit trying to ruin these other games for the rest of us.
It seems that every game released after 2006 encounters these same boneheads in the forums saying "I won't play that until its an exact clone of WoW".
I'm reading these forums and people are begging for 5 man instance and raids and stuff. If you haven't noticed, every new game that has tried that route has failed.
The only games that have sucess with this braindead whack-at-20-foot-tall bosses while playing "simon says" would be Wow and EQ2 (the game that wow is a clone of- in fact in beta, it even had the same gui).
In fact, before EQ2 and later Wow there were no mmo's with epically boring pve raids. The closest things that existed were world bosses. The only end game we had was PVP.
DAOC was an mmo that started off this way as well, but then they added a few xpacs and then introduced the concept of pve raids and later instanced dungeons and basically turned it into EQ2 just with PVP. Most DAOC'ers just PVPed anyways and later they prety much killed off the pve content because nobody played it.
The same reason ex-sandboxers go to newly releasing games and try to get them to add sandbox features.
I don't know how many times I've said this, probably well over 100 times. People need to learn what an MMO actually is. There's really only 2 types of MMOs. You have quest/storyline driven MMOs, like WoW, Rift, Lotro, Tera, etc. You have Sandbox MMOs like UO, Darkfall, AE, etc. Other than that there are no other MMOs, because that's what an MMO is. Either Devs make up the story, or players do. If UO was 3d, people would've called Darkfall an UO clone...Just because they're the same sub-genre doesn't make them clones. Quest/storyline MMOs are more popular because they're easier and more widely excepted than Sandbox MMOs. Most players that like Sandbox MMOs are a very very small minority in today's community. Companies aren't going to invest millions just to satisfy a niche part of any market. It's not good business and limits your maximum number of customers. That's why there haven't been that many sandboxes made.
Now for Quest/Storyline MMOs, or for some odd reason every calls them WoW clones, are vastly more popular and bring in a wider audience, thus more potential profit. You can call them whatever you want, but WoW clone is very misleading. Everquest and Dark Age of Camelot I guess then are WoW clones? Even though they came out years before WoW? Just because a MMO has quests in it, doesn't make it a WoW clone. In fact, I have yet to see a WoW clone. There are no games that are exact copies of WoW...or else they'd probably get their pants sued off by Blizzard lol. Every MMO has thier own unique story, graphics, gameplay, etc. They might be similar to other games of the same genre, but that's why they're in the same genre. You never see anyone calling FPS games a Battlefield or Call of Duty clone do you? Yet, more than any other genre, most FPS games are almost identical (except CoD is a PoS, and BF3 is a million times better hehe). They all have multiple guns, and multiplayer mode, etc. Yet they're not clones...You never saw people call old turn based RPGs FF clones did you? For some reason only in MMOs do people refer to everything as WoW clones. THEY'RE NOT WOW CLONES, they're just part of the same sub-genre...they're going to be similar. If you don't like it, go back to your RTS, FPS, or whatever game genre you came from.
Edit: If you wanted to get really into it, I guess you could call every single game a "Hit each other over the head with a stick" clone since that was the first game ever...all other games are clones of that game!
Although it is SORT of true,name one game that players are not playing EXACTLY like WOW?I know of ONLY one and even that game has turned into a sort of WOW like game and that WAS FFXI.You can have any design yo uwant,but if players still play the game like Wow,how does it change anything?
Example i am looking forward to Archeage,but i know darn well it wil lbe another WOW clone,following markers and arrows around.Basically i won't need to think at all,the game will tell me where to go and what to do.
Every other game has you following markers around to get your xp and loot.FFXI is the ONLY game that did not do that,so unless your playing vanilla FFXI,i doubt your plea has much merit?Even the new FFXIV another Square Enix title was not using markers,but now states they are going to add markers to hand hold players around that game as well,sad really that EVERY game HAS turned into Wow.
I remember playing all my favorite rpg's back in the day and i was not follwoing markers and arrows around a map.It gets so bad,to the point you don't read the quests,you just click really fast and follow the arrows.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
the graphics, game mechanics, storyline of wow are all great. they even tried to change the old world in cata, breathe new life into it, make it more interesting and fun and they know that. but its OLD and TIRED. im not saying that to be negative, its just a fact. i got tired of, after my 4th fully geared 85 in 2yrs, looking forward to nothing but the same thing all over again with a different toon. only difference w mop will be a new noob area, and a new level cap area, a cpl shiny new mounts, wrecked talent tree etc.
but beyond that, its the exact same grind in a different clown suit, same 'l33tist' douchebags trying to control everything about what you do in it to suit them......i could go on but you all know im sure.
i really do like the game itself, as of this date, before mop. so im not trying to be anti wow. but the point is, you cant put lipstick on a pig, when you stick your nose down in them, those beautiful roses smell like sh*t. its tired, man, and the wow vets know that. THAT is why they want to do that. theyd like to take what they think is the best of wow and transplant it into a different world, because the old one is played out.
If a game is like WoW with a new skin it will not last. Most players will leave after 1-3 months... Some WoW players and former WoW players will play it. But when they have finished the content and are max level there is no reason at all for them to continue playing. They will return to WoW or wait for the next WoW-clone that they will play 1-3 months.
New games that wants long term success needs to be different. The devs should not listen to people on forums demanding WoW features and WoW mechanics. If the game is different it should stay that way.
Part of me hopes raids of some form make it in eventually, but then the DEs meant for 40+ people kind of cover that. However your post and tone is pretty derogatory and flamebaitish. /popcorn
In all seriousness though, wanting what works from other games isn't inherently a bad thing, and your view that it is I think is unhealthy and making you angry and disilusioned about the truth. As is the OP of Every. Single. Thread. Like. This.
The problem is that it doesn't work for other games. The only sucessful examples of the stuctured pve raid type of gameplay are basically EQ2 and WoW. There have been countless WoW-clonse in the last 6 years that have failed.
And how many of the clones are simply shit games? Yeah that's why they failed, not raiding! Not to sound too pro raids in the WoW format. I like a big multi person challenge, I dislike the grind factor.
So quit trying to turn GW2 into just another shitty wow-clone?
You are a very confused/blinded forum goer. Here's a tip, drink beer, not energy drinks mmk?
I actually just made this account to post this today, I rarely come to these forums because its the same discussion every day.
"Why doesn't X game have raiding!?!?" Its been that way since 2006.
I used to come here back in 2005 and actually use the forums, but now I just read the news articles.
So what do you base your rants on, then? By your own words, you don't know shit about what ppl are talking about on these forums nowadays.
Heres why I DON'T want every game to be like WoW....
1. IT was too easy...Yeah I wasnt one of the top 1 or 2 percent that beat every single dungeon, but I also didnt enjoy the game enough to pursue that...For what I played the game was too easy
2. The community...While some people like to brag all day about 10 million plus it really means nothing to me.....What matters to me is the quality of players that were on my server and from what I saw they were very subpar.
3. The graphics - They weren't gamebreaking but they didnt do anything for me either...I get that the game was made so that it could be run on just about any PC, regardless of how inferior it was...I jsut prefer something a little better.
4. Too quest driven - There were too many quests in WoW....BY the time I left I never wanted to see another quest again.
Originally posted by jmcdermottuk Re "I won't play it unless it's exactly like WoW"I may not have seen it in so many words but the implication is obvious. We want a dungeon finder, we want raids, we want gear progression, blah blah blah. All WoW features missing, thankfully, from GW2. WoW players have been force fed this game model for so long they can't comprehend that there's an alternative, fun way of playing any MMO unless it conforms to WoW's formula. Pre 2004 we had some good MMO's, old school and sometimes harsh yes but still fun. EQ, AC, DAoC, all fun but all with something unique to offer. They felt different, but they felt familiar enough to play. Now it seems you can't win unless it's a copy of WoW, and then you can't win becaus it's now a "WoW Clone". It's a no win situation until people can break the habit and try something new.
Strangely I have to agree with the perception that some gamers have, especially the gamers that have not player very many games, if any at all, outside of WOW. I have had some lengthy conversations with some co-workers about the changes that both GW2 and TSW have brought to the table. I was countered with a dismissive "The games won't work without the holy trinity" and the "what is the point of playing without raids?" responses and questions.
I maintain to this very day that even if the models are not perfect and require some tweaking at least the effort will be worth the price to play.
This genre's innovation has slowed to a crawl over the last few years. We needed a least one company to take some large strides and create some new footsteps to follow in. Without a series of successful and interesting games on the horizon, we are at risk of becoming a very small community while mobile games become the greater focus.
In the next few years the Smart phone and tablet market is going to be pushing quad core and hex core devices at us along with LTE broadband usage. Once the first Angry Birds Mobile MMO or some other insanely stupid game grabs a big enough piece of the pie, the developers are going to turn their focus in the direction of the money.
10 million subs for WOW will pale in comparison to a hundred million sheep playing on Smart Phones or tablets. The games are already there, but the devices are still not resource efficient enough to snag the sheeple yet. It is only a matter of time.
Why do ex-WoWheads keep trying to turn every mmo into Wow?
If you want to play Wow, then go play Wow and quit trying to ruin these other games for the rest of us.
It seems that every game released after 2006 encounters these same boneheads in the forums saying "I won't play that until its an exact clone of WoW".
I'm reading these forums and people are begging for 5 man instance and raids and stuff. If you haven't noticed, every new game that has tried that route has failed.
The only games that have sucess with this braindead whack-at-20-foot-tall bosses while playing "simon says" would be Wow and EQ2 (the game that wow is a clone of- in fact in beta, it even had the same gui).
In fact, before EQ2 and later Wow there were no mmo's with epically boring pve raids. The closest things that existed were world bosses. The only end game we had was PVP.
DAOC was an mmo that started off this way as well, but then they added a few xpacs and then introduced the concept of pve raids and later instanced dungeons and basically turned it into EQ2 just with PVP. Most DAOC'ers just PVPed anyways and later they prety much killed off the pve content because nobody played it.
If a game is like WoW with a new skin it will not last. Most players will leave after 1-3 months... Some WoW players and former WoW players will play it. But when they have finished the content and are max level there is no reason at all for them to continue playing. They will return to WoW or wait for the next WoW-clone that they will play 1-3 months.
New games that wants long term success needs to be different. The devs should not listen to people on forums demanding WoW features and WoW mechanics. If the game is different it should stay that way.
Or they can just have short term success and move on.
Well before 2004 the was on EQ which in way have set ground for how mmo work and Blizzard just took add more to. Honest OP i wonder how many mmo you have been play.
For AoC is not even close to be clone to WoW for exmple and it do ok and one more thing why should other mmo try take best thing from everyone else?
Blizzard do all the time good exmple is Blizzard guild lvl system the ground idea come from AoC but in AoC you build a city which have 3 lvl which mean you have work toagther as guild to get mats to build city also take new system blizzard is add to MoP AoC have resemble system in there 1st expansion which blizzard is add in there 4th now also take Hunter in WoW now after 10 year blizzard is remove mini ranger you need stand use your bow AoC did have that from start.
Honest blizzard is clone everything the think is good from other mmo just like everyone else try to clone thing from blizzard the thing is most mmo dont have time fix so it work from there game system that is why the fault most of there time.
AoC was good exmple the 1st year before there 1st expansion AoC was half done game but it have to with that in the end it is stockholder that call shoots not company after AoC 1st expansion it was complete game.
Blame someone blame stockholder not company for the want to have complete game but stockholder want there money back asap.
Oh I hate it. Whenever there is a new game trying to do new things, WoW folks will come into the beta en masse and start screaming "waah NPCs need floating !!" or "omg everything is too hard" or or "wtf is a death penalty! get rid of this!" or "where are the instances? why are there other players in my dungeons!?" or "omg there's no quests WHAT DO I DO". I've seen this type of response cripple games from LotRO, to Vanguard, to WAR. Even AoC, when the WoW raiders showed up and thought 8 direction combat was "too hard".
Comments
Swtor be perfect for you!
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
The 'problem' (I guess that word fits) with most MMO's today is that they say "Hey, we've got a great idea for a game, a whole world with lore and history..even some original type visuals" in hopes that their game will 'new and revitializating' to the genre. The problem is that to make the game 'the next big thing' they look to the current big things, take a bit from game A a little from Game B and a dash of C and come up with a game, where the UI will remind players of their 'old love' in hopes of hooking them. This is the way MMO's have been done ever since EQ decided "Hey! Lets take that M.U.D idea, but add GRAPHICS to it" The whole industy has been building on iteself ever since.
A good thing? Bad thing? Sometimes it's both. For the record yes, I am a WoW player and I still play the game. WoW was not my first MMO, my first was back with MUD/MUCK/MUSH before the MMO craze hit. I've had my brain picked for many games from EQ to Star Wars The Old Republic and have seen good games die a horrible death and unable to truely speak of them because of evil unending NDA's. People love the games they love for whatever reasons. The game designers make their worlds, then the companys try and take enough to make a WoW player, or EQ2 player look at their game, feel comfrtable playing it because "Well it's almost like WoW" so they will stuck around. Sometimes this works, other times people cry "WoW Clone!"
Bah...It's 5:30 in the morning, I'm insomniatic, and rambly.....Sue me
The industry makes change, but only so much to try and suck us 'old timers' into the 'new thing' with hints of worlds gone by.
The from you so called "ex-wow" developers had their game (GW1) ready in 2004 already while it was in development for at least 4 years so no, the success of wow has nothing to do with GW1 nor GW2.
MMOS existed at least 6 years prior to wow so there would still have been a diverse community here without it too.
That's the whole issue here, people that are praising wow THAT high that it's getting ridicoulos. -.-
Love it.
You have just described forums everywhere! Vocal minorities rule. We get a thread where a few argue over the topic but hundreds or thousands read it judging by hits. They read what these few dynamic people post and form opinions based upon those posts. Not saying people are stuipid but it's almost subconscious. I was in the midst of downloading Mortal Online and cancelled it upon reading some forums. Should have tried it but now i'm in a torpor mode for the coming winter and must hibernate.
Not proud
The same reason ex-sandboxers go to newly releasing games and try to get them to add sandbox features.
http://www.twitch.tv/got_game_tv/ (livestream)
The War Z Shenanigans(youtube)
DayZ FUNTIME!
Mortal Online Vids
sigh...
I don't know how many times I've said this, probably well over 100 times. People need to learn what an MMO actually is. There's really only 2 types of MMOs. You have quest/storyline driven MMOs, like WoW, Rift, Lotro, Tera, etc. You have Sandbox MMOs like UO, Darkfall, AE, etc. Other than that there are no other MMOs, because that's what an MMO is. Either Devs make up the story, or players do. If UO was 3d, people would've called Darkfall an UO clone...Just because they're the same sub-genre doesn't make them clones. Quest/storyline MMOs are more popular because they're easier and more widely excepted than Sandbox MMOs. Most players that like Sandbox MMOs are a very very small minority in today's community. Companies aren't going to invest millions just to satisfy a niche part of any market. It's not good business and limits your maximum number of customers. That's why there haven't been that many sandboxes made.
Now for Quest/Storyline MMOs, or for some odd reason every calls them WoW clones, are vastly more popular and bring in a wider audience, thus more potential profit. You can call them whatever you want, but WoW clone is very misleading. Everquest and Dark Age of Camelot I guess then are WoW clones? Even though they came out years before WoW? Just because a MMO has quests in it, doesn't make it a WoW clone. In fact, I have yet to see a WoW clone. There are no games that are exact copies of WoW...or else they'd probably get their pants sued off by Blizzard lol. Every MMO has thier own unique story, graphics, gameplay, etc. They might be similar to other games of the same genre, but that's why they're in the same genre. You never see anyone calling FPS games a Battlefield or Call of Duty clone do you? Yet, more than any other genre, most FPS games are almost identical (except CoD is a PoS, and BF3 is a million times better hehe). They all have multiple guns, and multiplayer mode, etc. Yet they're not clones...You never saw people call old turn based RPGs FF clones did you? For some reason only in MMOs do people refer to everything as WoW clones. THEY'RE NOT WOW CLONES, they're just part of the same sub-genre...they're going to be similar. If you don't like it, go back to your RTS, FPS, or whatever game genre you came from.
Edit: If you wanted to get really into it, I guess you could call every single game a "Hit each other over the head with a stick" clone since that was the first game ever...all other games are clones of that game!
You should try GW2. It might not be a clone of WoW, but it sure is a clone of Warhammer Online.
Eleanor Rigby.
Top thread of 2012
PvP focused players
PvE-focused players
Although it is SORT of true,name one game that players are not playing EXACTLY like WOW?I know of ONLY one and even that game has turned into a sort of WOW like game and that WAS FFXI.You can have any design yo uwant,but if players still play the game like Wow,how does it change anything?
Example i am looking forward to Archeage,but i know darn well it wil lbe another WOW clone,following markers and arrows around.Basically i won't need to think at all,the game will tell me where to go and what to do.
Every other game has you following markers around to get your xp and loot.FFXI is the ONLY game that did not do that,so unless your playing vanilla FFXI,i doubt your plea has much merit?Even the new FFXIV another Square Enix title was not using markers,but now states they are going to add markers to hand hold players around that game as well,sad really that EVERY game HAS turned into Wow.
I remember playing all my favorite rpg's back in the day and i was not follwoing markers and arrows around a map.It gets so bad,to the point you don't read the quests,you just click really fast and follow the arrows.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
the graphics, game mechanics, storyline of wow are all great. they even tried to change the old world in cata, breathe new life into it, make it more interesting and fun and they know that. but its OLD and TIRED. im not saying that to be negative, its just a fact. i got tired of, after my 4th fully geared 85 in 2yrs, looking forward to nothing but the same thing all over again with a different toon. only difference w mop will be a new noob area, and a new level cap area, a cpl shiny new mounts, wrecked talent tree etc.
but beyond that, its the exact same grind in a different clown suit, same 'l33tist' douchebags trying to control everything about what you do in it to suit them......i could go on but you all know im sure.
i really do like the game itself, as of this date, before mop. so im not trying to be anti wow. but the point is, you cant put lipstick on a pig, when you stick your nose down in them, those beautiful roses smell like sh*t. its tired, man, and the wow vets know that. THAT is why they want to do that. theyd like to take what they think is the best of wow and transplant it into a different world, because the old one is played out.
If a game is like WoW with a new skin it will not last. Most players will leave after 1-3 months... Some WoW players and former WoW players will play it. But when they have finished the content and are max level there is no reason at all for them to continue playing. They will return to WoW or wait for the next WoW-clone that they will play 1-3 months.
New games that wants long term success needs to be different. The devs should not listen to people on forums demanding WoW features and WoW mechanics. If the game is different it should stay that way.
Free to play = content updates for the cash shop. Buy to play = content updates for the cash shop.
Subscription = Actual content updates!
What does it take to be a ex-WoWer?
I got to level 17 about 3 times over the years in WoW, does that mean I'm an ex-WoWer?
So what do you base your rants on, then? By your own words, you don't know shit about what ppl are talking about on these forums nowadays.
Heres why I DON'T want every game to be like WoW....
1. IT was too easy...Yeah I wasnt one of the top 1 or 2 percent that beat every single dungeon, but I also didnt enjoy the game enough to pursue that...For what I played the game was too easy
2. The community...While some people like to brag all day about 10 million plus it really means nothing to me.....What matters to me is the quality of players that were on my server and from what I saw they were very subpar.
3. The graphics - They weren't gamebreaking but they didnt do anything for me either...I get that the game was made so that it could be run on just about any PC, regardless of how inferior it was...I jsut prefer something a little better.
4. Too quest driven - There were too many quests in WoW....BY the time I left I never wanted to see another quest again.
Strangely I have to agree with the perception that some gamers have, especially the gamers that have not player very many games, if any at all, outside of WOW. I have had some lengthy conversations with some co-workers about the changes that both GW2 and TSW have brought to the table. I was countered with a dismissive "The games won't work without the holy trinity" and the "what is the point of playing without raids?" responses and questions.
I maintain to this very day that even if the models are not perfect and require some tweaking at least the effort will be worth the price to play.
This genre's innovation has slowed to a crawl over the last few years. We needed a least one company to take some large strides and create some new footsteps to follow in. Without a series of successful and interesting games on the horizon, we are at risk of becoming a very small community while mobile games become the greater focus.
In the next few years the Smart phone and tablet market is going to be pushing quad core and hex core devices at us along with LTE broadband usage. Once the first Angry Birds Mobile MMO or some other insanely stupid game grabs a big enough piece of the pie, the developers are going to turn their focus in the direction of the money.
10 million subs for WOW will pale in comparison to a hundred million sheep playing on Smart Phones or tablets. The games are already there, but the devices are still not resource efficient enough to snag the sheeple yet. It is only a matter of time.
where the option, to play what you like..
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Or they can just have short term success and move on.
3 month is a long time for a game.
Well before 2004 the was on EQ which in way have set ground for how mmo work and Blizzard just took add more to. Honest OP i wonder how many mmo you have been play.
For AoC is not even close to be clone to WoW for exmple and it do ok and one more thing why should other mmo try take best thing from everyone else?
Blizzard do all the time good exmple is Blizzard guild lvl system the ground idea come from AoC but in AoC you build a city which have 3 lvl which mean you have work toagther as guild to get mats to build city also take new system blizzard is add to MoP AoC have resemble system in there 1st expansion which blizzard is add in there 4th now also take Hunter in WoW now after 10 year blizzard is remove mini ranger you need stand use your bow AoC did have that from start.
Honest blizzard is clone everything the think is good from other mmo just like everyone else try to clone thing from blizzard the thing is most mmo dont have time fix so it work from there game system that is why the fault most of there time.
AoC was good exmple the 1st year before there 1st expansion AoC was half done game but it have to with that in the end it is stockholder that call shoots not company after AoC 1st expansion it was complete game.
Blame someone blame stockholder not company for the want to have complete game but stockholder want there money back asap.
Oh I hate it. Whenever there is a new game trying to do new things, WoW folks will come into the beta en masse and start screaming "waah NPCs need floating !!" or "omg everything is too hard" or or "wtf is a death penalty! get rid of this!" or "where are the instances? why are there other players in my dungeons!?" or "omg there's no quests WHAT DO I DO". I've seen this type of response cripple games from LotRO, to Vanguard, to WAR. Even AoC, when the WoW raiders showed up and thought 8 direction combat was "too hard".