For the record: I never knew about this exploit, I've never used it.
Nevertheless, I do agree that Anet is to blame here. The player can think or imagine that there is something wrong with the price, but he can't be sure, can he?
For example, there are karma wendors who sell weapons for many hundreds of karma points and Bulk Lemons for 21 karma point. Bulk Lemons are actually wonderful ingredients for cooking, MUCH more useful than anything else this or most other karma vendors sell, the moment I've seen it I've bought, like, 10 packets in bulk, because, well, It's what I would use to generate some profit when Trade Post will be available. Is it an exploit? The difference in price is there and is obvious, but is it an exploit? How can I know? How can I be sure?
If I've seen suddenly cheap cloth armor in Karma shop, I would have bought it for the same reason I buy Bulk Lemons from Karma shop: to use a source of materials for profession leveling and future trading. I wouldn't even think that I'm doing something wrong, as I don't think that I'm doing something wrong buying Bulk Lemons for 21 karma.
I perfectly agree with the need to remove the acquired goods and materials from players, even to ban them, as a warning and a method of leveling the playing fields, for a day or even two, though it's extreme, but hey, some people DO knew that it's an exploit and exploited it; but I certainly don't think that it warrants permaban - and I expect from Anet to admit their part of responsibility and to apology for their mistake.
I'm probably relatively alone on this, but I like the way Anet is handling all this. Exploiters and people who talk crap in chat ruin the experience of the game for me. I'm actually liking my experience with this game a whole lot more because there aren't a bunch of people talking like their in Barrens Chat or Level 1-29 Chat.
Onions sell for far more, can I ask ANet to ban them? cus they took advantage of MY mistake.
They should be permanently banned for exploiting the AH. We dont want people without character and cheaters in GW2.
I want YOU to be permabanned from GW2. I don't want people with your character (or lack of it, as I perceive) to play in the same game I'm playing.
Your mistake is your mistake; it is your and only your responsibility. Me making money from your mistake doesn't throw the shadow of any kind to my character.
Originally posted by Lokomotiv So EULA actually means something in Anet.
By that logic, people should also read their consumer rights better, and as soon as they couldnt login, parts of the game werent working ( AH, Party System, trading, bugged DEs ), there should have been a mass of refunds on the first day.
Thats what would happen if you or a company decides to disregard what is reasonable and what is unreasonable and porportional. What you are implying with your statement makes no sense and has no use in the real world
Refunds for what? There's no sub fee anyway, login problems were only temporary and nobody guaranteed uninterrupted service. And I don't know what you mean by "consumer rights" here but no software company will ever pay a refund for bugs (unless it's expressly stated in the contract or EULA).
And yes, permabanning for currency-related exploits in GW2 is perfectly reasonable and proportional. Anything that affects the economy affects it for everone. Any in-game currency devaluation caused by any kind of exploit means cheater benefit *at the expense* of legit players.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
For the record: I never knew about this exploit, I've never used it.
Nevertheless, I do agree that Anet is to blame here. The player can think or imagine that there is something wrong with the price, but he can't be sure, can he?
For example, there are karma wendors who sell weapons for many hundreds of karma points and Bulk Lemons for 21 karma point. Bulk Lemons are actually wonderful ingredients for cooking, MUCH more useful than anything else this or most other karma vendors sell, the moment I've seen it I've bought, like, 10 packets in bulk, because, well, It's what I would use to generate some profit when Trade Post will be available. Is it an exploit? The difference in price is there and is obvious, but is it an exploit? How can I know? How can I be sure?
If I've seen suddenly cheap cloth armor in Karma shop, I would have bought it for the same reason I buy Bulk Lemons from Karma shop: to use a source of materials for profession leveling and future trading. I wouldn't even think that I'm doing something wrong, as I don't think that I'm doing something wrong buying Bulk Lemons for 21 karma.
I perfectly agree with the need to remove the acquired goods and materials from players, even to ban them, as a warning and a method of leveling the playing fields, for a day or even two, though it's extreme, but hey, some people DO knew that it's an exploit and exploited it; but I certainly don't think that it warrants permaban - and I expect from Anet to admit their part of responsibility and to apology for their mistake.
Thank you! This puts it better than I ever could, good post.
You've just ruined my day with your use of "their" instead of "they are". I want you banned from this forum for ruining my user experience of the forum!
Originally posted by Lokomotiv So EULA actually means something in Anet.
By that logic, people should also read their consumer rights better, and as soon as they couldnt login, parts of the game werent working ( AH, Party System, trading, bugged DEs ), there should have been a mass of refunds on the first day.
Thats what would happen if you or a company decides to disregard what is reasonable and what is unreasonable and porportional. What you are implying with your statement makes no sense and has no use in the real world
Refunds for what? There's no sub fee anyway, login problems were only temporary and nobody guaranteed uninterrupted service. And I don't know what you mean by "consumer rights" here but no software company will ever pay a refund for bugs (unless it's expressly stated in the contract or EULA).
And yes, permabanning for currency-related exploits in GW2 is perfectly reasonable and proportional. Anything that affects the economy affects it for everone. Any in-game currency devaluation caused by any kind of exploit means cheater benefit *at the expense* of legit players.
I dont know where you live but luckily where I live a company doesnt need to agree with it, if I bought something online and I am not happy with the product, then I can ask for a refund and according to the law of the land ( that superseeds the law that is dictated by ANet, I know shocking, right! ) I will get a refund on my purchase price. That is all I wanted to say on the refund bit, I never mentioned any sub fees.
Onions sell for far more, can I ask ANet to ban them? cus they took advantage of MY mistake.
They should be permanently banned for exploiting the AH. We dont want people without character and cheaters in GW2.
I want YOU to be permabanned from GW2. I don't want people with your character (or lack of it, as I perceive) to play in the same game I'm playing.
Your mistake is your mistake; it is your and only your responsibility. Me making money from your mistake doesn't throw the shadow of any kind to my character.
Say what you want and play what you want but in GW2 cheaters and exploiters aren't welcome and ANet stated it very clearly. And don't crawl back to these forums crying when you'll get caught.
And BTW other games ban for less. In D3 it's against ToU and is bannable to use RMAH as an investment vehicle. So if you buy low and sell high you can earn a permaban even though it might seem perfectly legit.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
Onions sell for far more, can I ask ANet to ban them? cus they took advantage of MY mistake.
They should be permanently banned for exploiting the AH. We dont want people without character and cheaters in GW2.
I want YOU to be permabanned from GW2. I don't want people with your character (or lack of it, as I perceive) to play in the same game I'm playing.
Your mistake is your mistake; it is your and only your responsibility. Me making money from your mistake doesn't throw the shadow of any kind to my character.
hypocritical?
So Players buying items that ANet priced wrongly is wrong but players buying items I price wrongly is fine?
Onions sell for far more, can I ask ANet to ban them? cus they took advantage of MY mistake.
They should be permanently banned for exploiting the AH. We dont want people without character and cheaters in GW2.
I want YOU to be permabanned from GW2. I don't want people with your character (or lack of it, as I perceive) to play in the same game I'm playing.
Your mistake is your mistake; it is your and only your responsibility. Me making money from your mistake doesn't throw the shadow of any kind to my character.
Say what you want and play what you want but in GW2 cheaters and exploiters aren't welcome and ANet stated it very clearly. And don't come to the forums crying when you'll get caught.
And BTW other games ban for less. In D3 it's against ToU and is bannable to use RMAH as an investment vehicle. So if you buy low and sell high you can earn a permaban even though it might seem perfectly legit.
/they should run this past the stock market w/ the baby boomers online world is a seriously funny place
However the rade center doesn't even work and making 1 gold from 1500 rep is hardly using it as a investment vehicle. Now if you could trade out the 800 gems you buy with your gold then I could see that.
Sounds like playing a game is mostly a burden to you. So why play at all?
Playing the game is not the problem, Working at it like it's a full time job I get paid at is the problem. Also If they had the features ingame as advertised it wouldn't be a problem at all, would it?
Nah you mix the two well together, than you wonder what's wrong. The exact same thing you think is job is a pleasure to someone else. Grind is purely a state of individual mind.
No where it says that you actualy need all that stuff for fun to begin. Look at masses who are enjoying game as we speak and most of them has no such items or easy wealth as you mentioned.
Onions sell for far more, can I ask ANet to ban them? cus they took advantage of MY mistake.
They should be permanently banned for exploiting the AH. We dont want people without character and cheaters in GW2.
I want YOU to be permabanned from GW2. I don't want people with your character (or lack of it, as I perceive) to play in the same game I'm playing.
Your mistake is your mistake; it is your and only your responsibility. Me making money from your mistake doesn't throw the shadow of any kind to my character.
I also want YOU to be permabanned from GW2! Does that make us Permaban buddies?
I dont understand your post, I am getting mixed feelings your second half contradicts the whole vibe of this whole thread, the consensus seems to be its not ok to make money from someone elses mistake, in this case ANet made the mistake. Some other people have said that everyone should have known that they were taking advantage of someone else mistake and they have no character if they do take advantage of someone elses mistake.
Say what you want and play what you want but in GW2 cheaters and exploiters aren't welcome and ANet stated it very clearly. And don't crawl back to these forums crying when you'll get caught.
And BTW other games ban for less. In D3 it's against ToU and is bannable to use RMAH as an investment vehicle. So if you buy low and sell high you can earn a permaban even though it might seem perfectly legit.
I certainly will not cry. But any game that considers buying low and selling high as an "exploit" - I refuse to play it. Now that's what I call "lack of character". Pathetic. Beyond pathetic!
Say what you want and play what you want but in GW2 cheaters and exploiters aren't welcome and ANet stated it very clearly. And don't crawl back to these forums crying when you'll get caught.
And BTW other games ban for less. In D3 it's against ToU and is bannable to use RMAH as an investment vehicle. So if you buy low and sell high you can earn a permaban even though it might seem perfectly legit.
I certainly will not cry. But any game that considers buying low and selling high as an "exploit" - I refuse to play it. Now that's what I call "lack of character". Pathetic. Beyond pathetic!
Right! I get it now, I should have added the sarcasm tags in my post that you missed :P Doesnt discount the fact that you knowingly took advantage of someone else mistake if you do that mind you. According to this thread you have a lack of character if you do this.
Sounds like playing a game is mostly a burden to you. So why play at all?
Playing the game is not the problem, Working at it like it's a full time job I get paid at is the problem. Also If they had the features ingame as advertised it wouldn't be a problem at all, would it?
Nah you mix the two well together, than you wonder what's wrong. The exact same thing you think is job is a pleasure to someone else. Grind is purely a state of individual mind.
No where it says that you actualy need all that stuff for fun to begin. Look at masses who are enjoying game as we speak and most of them has no such items or easy wealth as you mentioned.
Darkheaven WvW has almost completely givin up or moved to a diff server to stack the odds. Maybe it's just me thou and that's why they're keeping their forums turned off and hidding in reddit with thier mods to save them. Idk just maybe they know some stuff is messed up and just don't want to come to terms with it. I wish you beta tested you'd be mad at the current state too.
People defending the banned players need to review the facts before they continue to make themselves look silly.
These people bought items worth 21k karma for 21 karma. In a shop surrounded by items worth 21k~.
As the 2nd post in this thread states, the perma banned players severly exploited this. I take this to mean they bought a couple of 100 of this item. Now no one needs a couple of hundred swords do they? so obviously they knew that they should buy them and sell them off later for a nice profit. No a single one of them thought ah, I am gonna need 200 of this sword, ill buy em and put them in my bank for later...
No exploit just an opportunity, ANet put the wrong price on the item, players did not take advantage of a bug, glitch or hack they simply bought an item(s) from a vender that ANET priced wrongm for some reason thats the players fault?
Buying one would be an opportunity, yes but some people bought over thousand. You have to nip things like this in the bud or the whole game will be full of exploiters and cheaters.
If I was an admin and it was my game I would have banned them as well, and so would most games. Only small desperate games like MO let you get away with stuff like this because losing a player would hurt them too much.
So consider this I sell 50 stacks of Onions on the trading post (assuming its working) for 1c per stack, I meant to sell them for 1g but I typed in the wrong box and didin't realise. They're all bought by a few players who then list them on the TP for 1g a stack. I then realise my mistake - did these players exploit? they certinly knew Onions sell for far more, can I ask ANet to ban them? cus they took advantage of MY mistake.
No because its not a exploit due to the limited amount of the items and the nature of trading.
Tradeable items that you set in the trading post can be set there for ANY price you want and the players that buy them can choose if they want to give as much for the items or not.
I saw in other games players placing in auction houses items for less by mistake so people naturaly took advantage of it so they can buy a product cheaper.
It's a bad mistake one can make that can cost you the materials but it's not exploitable to a huge amount since the offer and the items are limited and because its a player driven market that has nothing to do with the games mechanics and npcs.
Other than that you could have tons of these materials and want to indeed get rid of them by selling them totally low so the others will drop their price for all we know.
This is a mechanism that is getting used in any mmo anyway, if you want the price to drop and sell your items fast, you place them for a smaller price than the others or even for extremely lower prices.
Sometimes you even see a very low amount of items on a lower price (like 10 of them) while ther next higher priced ones are like 100s and have a price difference of lets say 100coins in between?
So you buy those 10 and sell them together with the ones you wanted to sell in the first place for a higher price thats only like 5 coins difference to the higher priced one.
This way you gain more for your own items and the 10 you bought additionaly while the guy that sold the 10 doesnt care that he sold too low because all he wanted was to get rid of the stuff real fast.
Karma items on the other hand are untradeable between players but since you can get better ones as you level and move through the world in the game, they can be sold to the npcs so you can at least get something back for the karma you earned and spent to buy them before.
So buying high priced karma items that sell for a lot of coins at a low price in a huge amount only because a bug makes it possible is a exploit.
Most of all when you noticed that it is indeed a bug and instead of reporting it to help the developer to make the game better for everyone, you exploit it for personal advantage out of selfish reasons.
Originally posted by Raven I dont know where you live but luckily where I live a company doesnt need to agree with it, if I bought something online and I am not happy with the product, then I can ask for a refund and according to the law of the land ( that superseeds the law that is dictated by ANet, I know shocking, right! ) I will get a refund on my purchase price. That is all I wanted to say on the refund bit, I never mentioned any sub fees.
Yeah, you can get this kind of refund but your license will be revoked. And I'm not sure you'll get any kind of refund after violating the EULA or ToU. I'm not an expert on international law though.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
I also want YOU to be permabanned from GW2! Does that make us Permaban buddies?
I dont understand your post, I am getting mixed feelings your second half contradicts the whole vibe of this whole thread, the consensus seems to be its not ok to make money from someone elses mistake, in this case ANet made the mistake. Some other people have said that everyone should have known that they were taking advantage of someone else mistake and they have no character if they do take advantage of someone elses mistake.
I am annoyed by the whole "I want those I don't like banned" jibe. I don't like most people. If everyone I don't like were banned, it would be lonely world indeed.
Only very specific offences warrant banning. "Character"? From my point of view, vast majority of people lack it. Should they all be banned?
As for the consensus, why should I care? Most people are wrong on any question.
Making money from someone else's mistake, as long as you don't force or entrap them into making this mistake is perfectly acceptable and absolutely not a sign of bad character.
In the case of Anet making a mistake, the things acquired should be removed not because making money of mistake is wrong, but to level the playing field for everyone; rules of the game take precedence over "rightness" or "wrongness" or things. Also, exploiting a known exploit is against the rules, and bans should be used to punish those exploiting a known exploit; those bans will also hit innocents, who didn't actually knew that it was an exploit, but it's a sacrifice I'm ready to make.
Good for Anet I say. They only got the worst offenders and this sends a clearer message then a slap on the wrist would. Now the playerbase and the devs know where the line is drawn.
Right! I get it now, I should have added the sarcasm tags in my post that you missed :P Doesnt discount the fact that you knowingly took advantage of someone else mistake if you do that mind you. According to this thread you have a lack of character if you do this.
Considering some other posts here, I would be hard pressed to discern sarcasm and actual beliefs of people. I tend to have rather low opinion of others, so by default I think the worst of them.
As for this thread, I've read just some last pages, I'm not sure (nor I care much) about general consensus. As long as the members of general consensus can't burn me alive, of course. If they can - why, I'm all supportive of general consensus! It rules!
Originally posted by Raven I dont know where you live but luckily where I live a company doesnt need to agree with it, if I bought something online and I am not happy with the product, then I can ask for a refund and according to the law of the land ( that superseeds the law that is dictated by ANet, I know shocking, right! ) I will get a refund on my purchase price. That is all I wanted to say on the refund bit, I never mentioned any sub fees.
Yeah, you can get this kind of refund but your license will be revoked. And I'm not sure you'll get any kind of refund after violating the EULA or ToU. I'm not an expert on international law though.
Yeah I am not an expert as well beyond that, but my guess is that it wouldnt be as simple as you violated the EULA you can't get a refund, I think a court would find unreasonable that I have had the product for 2 days and now cannot use it anymore ( at least in the EU ) and that the EULA would probably mean fuck all if it came to a real court case. Doesnt change the fact that my license would be revoked, and they would have every right to.
And for the record no, I have not been banned, I didnt even knew about this until this morning, but this surely is an interesting discussion
But any game that considers buying low and selling high as an "exploit" - I refuse to play it. Now that's what I call "lack of character". Pathetic. Beyond pathetic!
In MMORPGs it's almost a cliche, there are ALWAYS people around who will want to convince the rest that they got scammed/exploited when they bought something for a price which was higher than what the other seller offered later.
They did not take time to research, they rush traded, unable to hold their greedy fingers back rather than being patient; than they ironicaly proceed crying while blaming others for their mistakes.
In bussines world the item is worth EXACTLY as much as customers are willing to pay for it. The seelers job is to figure out the high end border and there's no such thing as scam (exploit) involved.
It's similar than what some people do and feel right now about the current exploit fiasco.
Anyway my mind usualy implodes when I see these people and emergency ignore button is pushed.
Comments
For the record: I never knew about this exploit, I've never used it.
Nevertheless, I do agree that Anet is to blame here. The player can think or imagine that there is something wrong with the price, but he can't be sure, can he?
For example, there are karma wendors who sell weapons for many hundreds of karma points and Bulk Lemons for 21 karma point. Bulk Lemons are actually wonderful ingredients for cooking, MUCH more useful than anything else this or most other karma vendors sell, the moment I've seen it I've bought, like, 10 packets in bulk, because, well, It's what I would use to generate some profit when Trade Post will be available. Is it an exploit? The difference in price is there and is obvious, but is it an exploit? How can I know? How can I be sure?
If I've seen suddenly cheap cloth armor in Karma shop, I would have bought it for the same reason I buy Bulk Lemons from Karma shop: to use a source of materials for profession leveling and future trading. I wouldn't even think that I'm doing something wrong, as I don't think that I'm doing something wrong buying Bulk Lemons for 21 karma.
I perfectly agree with the need to remove the acquired goods and materials from players, even to ban them, as a warning and a method of leveling the playing fields, for a day or even two, though it's extreme, but hey, some people DO knew that it's an exploit and exploited it; but I certainly don't think that it warrants permaban - and I expect from Anet to admit their part of responsibility and to apology for their mistake.
I want YOU to be permabanned from GW2. I don't want people with your character (or lack of it, as I perceive) to play in the same game I'm playing.
Your mistake is your mistake; it is your and only your responsibility. Me making money from your mistake doesn't throw the shadow of any kind to my character.
Refunds for what? There's no sub fee anyway, login problems were only temporary and nobody guaranteed uninterrupted service. And I don't know what you mean by "consumer rights" here but no software company will ever pay a refund for bugs (unless it's expressly stated in the contract or EULA).
And yes, permabanning for currency-related exploits in GW2 is perfectly reasonable and proportional. Anything that affects the economy affects it for everone. Any in-game currency devaluation caused by any kind of exploit means cheater benefit *at the expense* of legit players.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
Thank you! This puts it better than I ever could, good post.
You've just ruined my day with your use of "their" instead of "they are". I want you banned from this forum for ruining my user experience of the forum!
Wait till you read my next post... You'll probably be hatin on me forever.
I dont know where you live but luckily where I live a company doesnt need to agree with it, if I bought something online and I am not happy with the product, then I can ask for a refund and according to the law of the land ( that superseeds the law that is dictated by ANet, I know shocking, right! ) I will get a refund on my purchase price. That is all I wanted to say on the refund bit, I never mentioned any sub fees.
Say what you want and play what you want but in GW2 cheaters and exploiters aren't welcome and ANet stated it very clearly. And don't crawl back to these forums crying when you'll get caught.
And BTW other games ban for less. In D3 it's against ToU and is bannable to use RMAH as an investment vehicle. So if you buy low and sell high you can earn a permaban even though it might seem perfectly legit.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
hypocritical?
So Players buying items that ANet priced wrongly is wrong but players buying items I price wrongly is fine?
/they should run this past the stock market w/ the baby boomers online world is a seriously funny place
However the rade center doesn't even work and making 1 gold from 1500 rep is hardly using it as a investment vehicle. Now if you could trade out the 800 gems you buy with your gold then I could see that.
Nah you mix the two well together, than you wonder what's wrong. The exact same thing you think is job is a pleasure to someone else. Grind is purely a state of individual mind.
No where it says that you actualy need all that stuff for fun to begin. Look at masses who are enjoying game as we speak and most of them has no such items or easy wealth as you mentioned.
I also want YOU to be permabanned from GW2! Does that make us Permaban buddies?
I dont understand your post, I am getting mixed feelings your second half contradicts the whole vibe of this whole thread, the consensus seems to be its not ok to make money from someone elses mistake, in this case ANet made the mistake. Some other people have said that everyone should have known that they were taking advantage of someone else mistake and they have no character if they do take advantage of someone elses mistake.
I certainly will not cry. But any game that considers buying low and selling high as an "exploit" - I refuse to play it. Now that's what I call "lack of character". Pathetic. Beyond pathetic!
Right! I get it now, I should have added the sarcasm tags in my post that you missed :P Doesnt discount the fact that you knowingly took advantage of someone else mistake if you do that mind you. According to this thread you have a lack of character if you do this.
Darkheaven WvW has almost completely givin up or moved to a diff server to stack the odds. Maybe it's just me thou and that's why they're keeping their forums turned off and hidding in reddit with thier mods to save them. Idk just maybe they know some stuff is messed up and just don't want to come to terms with it. I wish you beta tested you'd be mad at the current state too.
No because its not a exploit due to the limited amount of the items and the nature of trading.
Tradeable items that you set in the trading post can be set there for ANY price you want and the players that buy them can choose if they want to give as much for the items or not.
I saw in other games players placing in auction houses items for less by mistake so people naturaly took advantage of it so they can buy a product cheaper.
It's a bad mistake one can make that can cost you the materials but it's not exploitable to a huge amount since the offer and the items are limited and because its a player driven market that has nothing to do with the games mechanics and npcs.
Other than that you could have tons of these materials and want to indeed get rid of them by selling them totally low so the others will drop their price for all we know.
This is a mechanism that is getting used in any mmo anyway, if you want the price to drop and sell your items fast, you place them for a smaller price than the others or even for extremely lower prices.
Sometimes you even see a very low amount of items on a lower price (like 10 of them) while ther next higher priced ones are like 100s and have a price difference of lets say 100coins in between?
So you buy those 10 and sell them together with the ones you wanted to sell in the first place for a higher price thats only like 5 coins difference to the higher priced one.
This way you gain more for your own items and the 10 you bought additionaly while the guy that sold the 10 doesnt care that he sold too low because all he wanted was to get rid of the stuff real fast.
Karma items on the other hand are untradeable between players but since you can get better ones as you level and move through the world in the game, they can be sold to the npcs so you can at least get something back for the karma you earned and spent to buy them before.
So buying high priced karma items that sell for a lot of coins at a low price in a huge amount only because a bug makes it possible is a exploit.
Most of all when you noticed that it is indeed a bug and instead of reporting it to help the developer to make the game better for everyone, you exploit it for personal advantage out of selfish reasons.
Yeah, you can get this kind of refund but your license will be revoked. And I'm not sure you'll get any kind of refund after violating the EULA or ToU. I'm not an expert on international law though.
MMORPG genre is dead. Long live MMOCS (Massively Multiplayer Online Cash Shop).
I am annoyed by the whole "I want those I don't like banned" jibe. I don't like most people. If everyone I don't like were banned, it would be lonely world indeed.
Only very specific offences warrant banning. "Character"? From my point of view, vast majority of people lack it. Should they all be banned?
As for the consensus, why should I care? Most people are wrong on any question.
Making money from someone else's mistake, as long as you don't force or entrap them into making this mistake is perfectly acceptable and absolutely not a sign of bad character.
In the case of Anet making a mistake, the things acquired should be removed not because making money of mistake is wrong, but to level the playing field for everyone; rules of the game take precedence over "rightness" or "wrongness" or things. Also, exploiting a known exploit is against the rules, and bans should be used to punish those exploiting a known exploit; those bans will also hit innocents, who didn't actually knew that it was an exploit, but it's a sacrifice I'm ready to make.
Dear A.Net,
Shut up and take my money.
Considering some other posts here, I would be hard pressed to discern sarcasm and actual beliefs of people. I tend to have rather low opinion of others, so by default I think the worst of them.
As for this thread, I've read just some last pages, I'm not sure (nor I care much) about general consensus. As long as the members of general consensus can't burn me alive, of course. If they can - why, I'm all supportive of general consensus! It rules!
Yeah I am not an expert as well beyond that, but my guess is that it wouldnt be as simple as you violated the EULA you can't get a refund, I think a court would find unreasonable that I have had the product for 2 days and now cannot use it anymore ( at least in the EU ) and that the EULA would probably mean fuck all if it came to a real court case. Doesnt change the fact that my license would be revoked, and they would have every right to.
And for the record no, I have not been banned, I didnt even knew about this until this morning, but this surely is an interesting discussion
In MMORPGs it's almost a cliche, there are ALWAYS people around who will want to convince the rest that they got scammed/exploited when they bought something for a price which was higher than what the other seller offered later.
They did not take time to research, they rush traded, unable to hold their greedy fingers back rather than being patient; than they ironicaly proceed crying while blaming others for their mistakes.
In bussines world the item is worth EXACTLY as much as customers are willing to pay for it. The seelers job is to figure out the high end border and there's no such thing as scam (exploit) involved.
It's similar than what some people do and feel right now about the current exploit fiasco.
Anyway my mind usualy implodes when I see these people and emergency ignore button is pushed.