the problem is I don't have a problem with there being some f2p games .. if that is what works for some people .. the problem is the complete lack of games that are actually worth spending money on. as I said a few posts ago, all of these f2p games and p2p games that go f2p are just generic rehashed crap, which is why they don't stay p2p. if they were actually worth paying for, people would pay for them. the appeal of f2p games comes down to the fact that the games that are being created are not worth paying for.
If I say I don't watch hockey because it's boring. Does that mean they need better teams or does it mean hockey just isn't for me.
If you can't find a single game worth playing...maybe it's not the games.
TERA is F2P and has the best graphics of any MMO I have played. Many F2P also have tons of classes and features too. D&D online has tons of customization for your character, can combine classes and make pretty much anything you want.
MMORPGs as a whole are just bad nowadays pay or free.
Another thing, most pay MMORPGs transition to F2P so that also shows you don't know what youre talking about saying they lack graphics, features, classes.
The bad thing in F2P is when they do pay to win.
The good in F2P are MOBAS like DOTA 2 or LOL, they do F2P right.
Originally posted by DamonVile Originally posted by azmundaithe problem is I don't have a problem with there being some f2p games .. if that is what works for some people .. the problem is the complete lack of games that are actually worth spending money on. as I said a few posts ago, all of these f2p games and p2p games that go f2p are just generic rehashed crap, which is why they don't stay p2p. if they were actually worth paying for, people would pay for them. the appeal of f2p games comes down to the fact that the games that are being created are not worth paying for.
If I say I don't watch hockey because it's boring. Does that mean they need better teams or does it mean hockey just isn't for me.
If you can't find a single game worth playing...maybe it's not the games.
hey, im on that fence. the genre has become an endless trail of regurgitated drivel. I haven't given up hope yet because I love what mmo gaming was.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Originally posted by nerovipus32 All mmo's should be f2p or b2p because they are certainly not worth a monthly sub.
Luckily personally I am in the rare spot where my ingame income in EVE warrants me to buy 30d time codes to fund all my accounts. Thank God they invented the mechanism to buy gametime with ingame money.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Originally posted by khameleon TERA is F2P and has the best graphics of any MMO I have played. Many F2P also have tons of classes and features too. D&D online has tons of customization for your character, can combine classes and make pretty much anything you want. MMORPGs as a whole are just bad nowadays pay or free. Another thing, most pay MMORPGs transition to F2P so that also shows you don't know what youre talking about saying they lack graphics, features, classes.The bad thing in F2P is when they do pay to win.The good in F2P are MOBAS like DOTA 2 or LOL, they do F2P right.
tera and ddo were p2p, they had some p2p assets that you mention, but were still not good enough to be worth $15 a month. a game that isn't worth $15 a month, isn't really worth playing to me. Sure i'll try it, but of all the mmos ive played over the years, no game that wasn't worth paying $15 a month for was really worth playing.
take swtor for example. I was subscribed for a while because the first time through the content it was worth $15 a month. Nothing that was worth continuing to pay $15 a month for was added ... thus the game was not worth $15 a month to me anymore.
I don't want to play a new game every couple of months, I want to play the same game for years on end .. but it has to actually be worth $15 a month, I'd pay $30 a month if it was worth it. not likely given the current climate though ..
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Originally posted by khameleon TERA is F2P and has the best graphics of any MMO I have played. Many F2P also have tons of classes and features too. D&D online has tons of customization for your character, can combine classes and make pretty much anything you want.
MMORPGs as a whole are just bad nowadays pay or free.
Another thing, most pay MMORPGs transition to F2P so that also shows you don't know what youre talking about saying they lack graphics, features, classes.
The bad thing in F2P is when they do pay to win.
The good in F2P are MOBAS like DOTA 2 or LOL, they do F2P right.
tera and ddo were p2p, they had some p2p assets that you mention, but were still not good enough to be worth $15 a month. a game that isn't worth $15 a month, isn't really worth playing to me. Sure i'll try it, but of all the mmos ive played over the years, no game that wasn't worth paying $15 a month for was really worth playing.
take swtor for example. I was subscribed for a while because the first time through the content it was worth $15 a month. Nothing that was worth continuing to pay $15 a month for was added ... thus the game was not worth $15 a month to me anymore.
I don't want to play a new game every couple of months, I want to play the same game for years on end .. but it has to actually be worth $15 a month, I'd pay $30 a month if it was worth it. not likely given the current climate though ..
So... are you playing an MMO at all? Or are you just declaring all MMORPGs shit?
Originally posted by colddog04 Originally posted by azmundaiOriginally posted by khameleonTERA is F2P and has the best graphics of any MMO I have played. Many F2P also have tons of classes and features too. D&D online has tons of customization for your character, can combine classes and make pretty much anything you want. MMORPGs as a whole are just bad nowadays pay or free. Another thing, most pay MMORPGs transition to F2P so that also shows you don't know what youre talking about saying they lack graphics, features, classes.The bad thing in F2P is when they do pay to win.The good in F2P are MOBAS like DOTA 2 or LOL, they do F2P right.
tera and ddo were p2p, they had some p2p assets that you mention, but were still not good enough to be worth $15 a month. a game that isn't worth $15 a month, isn't really worth playing to me. Sure i'll try it, but of all the mmos ive played over the years, no game that wasn't worth paying $15 a month for was really worth playing.take swtor for example. I was subscribed for a while because the first time through the content it was worth $15 a month. Nothing that was worth continuing to pay $15 a month for was added ... thus the game was not worth $15 a month to me anymore.I don't want to play a new game every couple of months, I want to play the same game for years on end .. but it has to actually be worth $15 a month, I'd pay $30 a month if it was worth it. not likely given the current climate though ..So... are you playing an MMO at all? Or are you just declaring all MMORPGs shit?
fail to see how that matters, but I log into vanguard once in a while. i play tera or aion once in a while ... does that meet your standards for discussing this topic?
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
F2P, low cost development hence easier to recover. P2P to F2P, costs are covered @ the initial sale + 6-12 months sub revenue then the game became F2P to generate revenue for future game development and servers servicing costs.
What the difference you might ask?
Game-wise, same shit just different smells
P2P Vs F2P-wise, revenue dictates
Player taste, well no one eating the same meal every day but people always get more as long as its FREE.
F2P PVP mmo, ahhaha it's a P2W so expect your ass from this....0========>>O when you finally get the picture.
F2P MMORPG's for me were always a great "filler up" to kill the wait until I wait for AAA MMORPG' being delivered. I'm thankful how enjoyable Path of Exile has been this year and if F2P MMO's like Rift deliver close to what B2P/P2P MMO's do, F2P can surely be very appealing.
Another thing about free MMO's is they don't tend to be 50 GB. You can usually get it in your head you want to play one and be playing it in an hr or so, not 2 days later. I think Tera got serious damage due to its min requi and the size of the download. Back when games were 2 GB I supported digital distribution, now I would strongly suggest any new MMO, get a distribution deal before you launch.
I don't understand the recent boom in popularity about the F2P model, Everyone's mom is talking about F2P. I ask, why?
Every F2P game I have played has been very under whelming.
- The graphics are "meh."
- The game play is always generic questing with the yellow Exclamation mark.
- Never more than 3-4 classes, usually genaric.
- Never anything new, always just recycled ideas done a billion times over.
- The combat and overall game feels like it was made in some ones garage.
Besides being a cheap @ss, what do people see in these games?
There are simply people who do not value their own time. ´ meh, I am bored, what can I do´.. so you log into a game that requires nothing from you.
Personally, F2P games do not appeal to me because there is a reason they are f2p.. they are usually very bad. I value my own time enough to pay $15 to play a quality game.
Also, to dismis some people in this thread. ´ f2p games make a lot of money´. Only DD0 has ever come out and said they made significnatly more money once they went f2p. A lot of games hold on, and make some money.. but none of them are staggering successes. Games like SWTOR and AOC do no even have substantially more players than they did when they were subscription.
DDO was the first major AAA game to go f2p, I think it´s success at is was mainly because it was first, not because the model is great
Originally posted by Scot F2P from launch always means less content and less quality.
What on earth are you basing that on? The only thing that could be remotely relevant would be the preorder and release box price, which are independent of the sub. There is absolutely no basis for such a ridiculous statement, but that's par for the course for most of what gets stated as fact by the anti-F2P crowd here.
You say there is no basis for that statement, but in your reply you detail it out for us why what I said is true? Investors and gaming companies know a P2P MMO will have preorder, launch sales and subscription revenue. B2P only misses out on the subscription. The only thing that F2P used to have that generated income that P2P did not have was the cash shop. Well over the last couple of years P2P have got cash shops too.
Maybe I am missing what you are getting at? To me it seems clear that products with more revenue sources will receive more funding. More funding leads to more content, better quality graphics, ensuring the game is 3D 3rd person, more polish. F2P MMO's can have good graphics, good polish and at least a reasonable amount of content. But with more funding you get...more.
We see both revenue styles merging more, year by year, F2P now have subscriptions for example. These extra revenue streams have not yet changed how gaming companies think of F2P though. They are still the poor mans MMO.
I don't understand the recent boom in popularity about the F2P model, Everyone's mom is talking about F2P. I ask, why?
Every F2P game I have played has been very under whelming.
- The graphics are "meh."
- The game play is always generic questing with the yellow Exclamation mark.
- Never more than 3-4 classes, usually genaric.
- Never anything new, always just recycled ideas done a billion times over.
- The combat and overall game feels like it was made in some ones garage.
Besides being a cheap @ss, what do people see in these games?
My mom told me, son go for it its FREE:P
P.S On P2P mmo's 90% have graphics that are "meh"(WoW as example terible cartoony graphics from 90s) have !-? above head quests hubs with rediculous kill 10x boar quests, not more then 3-4 classes biggest thing most P2P have recycle of old ideas made in new painted coat, combat is many times made by some cheap punk under a bridge in some part of the world for 10cents a hour.
Originally posted by Scot F2P from launch always means less content and less quality.
What on earth are you basing that on? The only thing that could be remotely relevant would be the preorder and release box price, which are independent of the sub. There is absolutely no basis for such a ridiculous statement, but that's par for the course for most of what gets stated as fact by the anti-F2P crowd here.
You say there is no basis for that statement, but in your reply you detail it out for us why what I said is true? Investors and gaming companies know a P2P MMO will have preorder, launch sales and subscription revenue. B2P only misses out on the subscription. The only thing that F2P used to have that generated income that P2P did not have was the cash shop. Well over the last couple of years P2P have got cash shops too.
Maybe I am missing what you are getting at? To me it seems clear that products with more revenue sources will receive more funding. More funding leads to more content, better quality graphics, ensuring the game is 3D 3rd person, more polish. F2P MMO's can have good graphics, good polish and at least a reasonable amount of content. But with more funding you get...more.
We see both revenue styles merging more, year by year, F2P now have subscriptions for example. These extra revenue streams have not yet changed how gaming companies think of F2P though. They are still the poor mans MMO.
We know now in the last couple of years thats also not true when company have more funding means more content and quality, we seen plenty of failors of past 6 years from big budget companys becouse of lack of content and quality.
Originally posted by free2play Another thing about free MMO's is they don't tend to be 50 GB. You can usually get it in your head you want to play one and be playing it in an hr or so, not 2 days later. I think Tera got serious damage due to its min requi and the size of the download. Back when games were 2 GB I supported digital distribution, now I would strongly suggest any new MMO, get a distribution deal before you launch.
A bit of a different subject but there are ways around large digital distribution, such as progressive downloads (aka downloading while your in the game start areas). I do feel direct digital distribution is the future, cut out those horrible studio's. Now that is something killing the industry.
This is only my humble opinion, Most games are shallow, and lacking in any substantial material .. I'd love to pay for a game i knew was going to keep me interested for more than a couple of months, but todays companies making the MMO's seem to be after the fast buck and rush out products that are good IP's but lack in any real substance and become boring to play. So i think thats why so many have to go the F2P rout ... because thank god not everybody will pay a sub for games that are below par.
You have some titles like AION, and Rift that i was surprised went free to play ... IMHO i think those 2 games are fun and full of stuff to do and keep you going for a long time, but AION did have its issues with grinding levels .. thats what drove me away from it and even when it went free to play i didnt go back.
I don't understand the recent boom in popularity about the F2P model, Everyone's mom is talking about F2P. I ask, why?
Every F2P game I have played has been very under whelming.
- The graphics are "meh."
- The game play is always generic questing with the yellow Exclamation mark.
- Never more than 3-4 classes, usually genaric.
- Never anything new, always just recycled ideas done a billion times over.
- The combat and overall game feels like it was made in some ones garage.
Besides being a cheap @ss, what do people see in these games?
I didn't read the whole post sorry but its like this - mortgage, 2 kids whose games I need to subsidise, plus just the cost of the kids, 2 cars, wife, 2 dogs, 2 cats, life - that's why I play F2P games.
I don't understand the recent boom in popularity about the F2P model, Everyone mom is talking about F2P. I ask, why?
Every F2P game I have played has been very under whelming.
- The graphics are "meh."
- The game play is always generic questing with the yellow Exclamation mark.
- Never more than 3-4 classes, usually genaric.
- Never anything new, always just recycled ideas done a billion times over.
- The combat and overall game feels like it was made in some ones garage.
Besides being a cheap @ss, what do people see in these games?
First of all F2P means lowering the entry barrier. There are a lot of ppl never played a MMORPG before and are not used to pay a monthly sub.. for them it is a lot easier to pick up any F2P game.
The same is true for ppl not playing a lot, or never bought any computer game. For them it is easier to start playing with a F2P game, and they may get hooked.
About your complains. Look at games like Age of Conan or Star Wars the Old republic... they are both F2P now, to lowering the entry barrier. Are the graphics really just "meh"?
.....Are you for real? BOTH games were not made for F2P. You're acting like the company went 'Let us make it F2P, and use the best tech that we have'. Majority of F2P have graphics that are 'ok', or have been used a million times before. There also is no reason I see why people with a short amount of time would go F2P as opposed to a subscription. That's a loop hole argument. It's like saying 'Because she is allergic to eggs, she sits in the bath tub'. What in the world? Also, the last I checked AoC, it's no better than what it use to be or worse, it's as much on life support as Ultima Online.
The only reason games go F2P is because they are failing. Some people think it's because they actually care to keep the game like they knew it in subscription mode. That is never the case. It's just to make a quick leap and hope they can still make money off that game while tending to another.
To the OP. There is no real reason for the influx. Someone in each company kept reckoning it was a great way to make a game and make far more money as an MMORPG than to ask a subscription fee. For whatever reason, they feel that it makes them more successful. Player bases of sorts keep saying 'But they are still alive, and doing better'. Got news for you - nowhere near what they COULD have been doing. The moment they hit F2P, your concern as a player are placed on the back burner. The moment you cannot handle a mechanic of the game, who cares? Nobody.
I hope this era ends relatively soon.. or something great comes out. You know, a game where people get paid to make you the best environment they can, with stunning gameplay. Because, you know.. a dedicated team on steady income that isn't based on random purchases is probably going to make it more enjoyable for both parties. Sounds logical to me.
I don't understand the recent boom in popularity about the F2P model, Everyone's mom is talking about F2P. I ask, why?
Every F2P game I have played has been very under whelming.
- The graphics are "meh."
- The game play is always generic questing with the yellow Exclamation mark.
- Never more than 3-4 classes, usually genaric.
- Never anything new, always just recycled ideas done a billion times over.
- The combat and overall game feels like it was made in some ones garage.
Besides being a cheap @ss, what do people see in these games?
Considering pretty much every MMO out there is now F2P, aside from Darkfall, WoW and EVE, thats hardly true.
What is the appeal?
1) No barrier to entry.
2) Pay as much as you feel like, some may want to pay more, others less.
Most are moving away from P2W models like Runes of Magic. It would take a pretty special game to compete with the existing MMOs that have gone F2P. So you wont be seeing another sub game in a while.
Comments
If I say I don't watch hockey because it's boring. Does that mean they need better teams or does it mean hockey just isn't for me.
If you can't find a single game worth playing...maybe it's not the games.
TERA is F2P and has the best graphics of any MMO I have played. Many F2P also have tons of classes and features too. D&D online has tons of customization for your character, can combine classes and make pretty much anything you want.
MMORPGs as a whole are just bad nowadays pay or free.
Another thing, most pay MMORPGs transition to F2P so that also shows you don't know what youre talking about saying they lack graphics, features, classes.
The bad thing in F2P is when they do pay to win.
The good in F2P are MOBAS like DOTA 2 or LOL, they do F2P right.
GAME TIL YOU DIE!!!!
If you can't find a single game worth playing...maybe it's not the games.
hey, im on that fence. the genre has become an endless trail of regurgitated drivel. I haven't given up hope yet because I love what mmo gaming was.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Luckily personally I am in the rare spot where my ingame income in EVE warrants me to buy 30d time codes to fund all my accounts. Thank God they invented the mechanism to buy gametime with ingame money.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
Free and easy is the issue.
For many gamers the only challenge is end gaming in free mode instead of throwing money at it.
tera and ddo were p2p, they had some p2p assets that you mention, but were still not good enough to be worth $15 a month. a game that isn't worth $15 a month, isn't really worth playing to me. Sure i'll try it, but of all the mmos ive played over the years, no game that wasn't worth paying $15 a month for was really worth playing.
take swtor for example. I was subscribed for a while because the first time through the content it was worth $15 a month. Nothing that was worth continuing to pay $15 a month for was added ... thus the game was not worth $15 a month to me anymore.
I don't want to play a new game every couple of months, I want to play the same game for years on end .. but it has to actually be worth $15 a month, I'd pay $30 a month if it was worth it. not likely given the current climate though ..
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
So... are you playing an MMO at all? Or are you just declaring all MMORPGs shit?
So... are you playing an MMO at all? Or are you just declaring all MMORPGs shit?
fail to see how that matters, but I log into vanguard once in a while. i play tera or aion once in a while ... does that meet your standards for discussing this topic?
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
F2P, low cost development hence easier to recover. P2P to F2P, costs are covered @ the initial sale + 6-12 months sub revenue then the game became F2P to generate revenue for future game development and servers servicing costs.
What the difference you might ask?
Game-wise, same shit just different smells
P2P Vs F2P-wise, revenue dictates
Player taste, well no one eating the same meal every day but people always get more as long as its FREE.
F2P PVP mmo, ahhaha it's a P2W so expect your ass from this....0========>>O when you finally get the picture.
Aside from that, you clearly didnt played a lot of f2p's to make a clear critique.
There are simply people who do not value their own time. ´ meh, I am bored, what can I do´.. so you log into a game that requires nothing from you.
Personally, F2P games do not appeal to me because there is a reason they are f2p.. they are usually very bad. I value my own time enough to pay $15 to play a quality game.
Also, to dismis some people in this thread. ´ f2p games make a lot of money´. Only DD0 has ever come out and said they made significnatly more money once they went f2p. A lot of games hold on, and make some money.. but none of them are staggering successes. Games like SWTOR and AOC do no even have substantially more players than they did when they were subscription.
DDO was the first major AAA game to go f2p, I think it´s success at is was mainly because it was first, not because the model is great
You say there is no basis for that statement, but in your reply you detail it out for us why what I said is true? Investors and gaming companies know a P2P MMO will have preorder, launch sales and subscription revenue. B2P only misses out on the subscription. The only thing that F2P used to have that generated income that P2P did not have was the cash shop. Well over the last couple of years P2P have got cash shops too.
Maybe I am missing what you are getting at? To me it seems clear that products with more revenue sources will receive more funding. More funding leads to more content, better quality graphics, ensuring the game is 3D 3rd person, more polish. F2P MMO's can have good graphics, good polish and at least a reasonable amount of content. But with more funding you get...more.
We see both revenue styles merging more, year by year, F2P now have subscriptions for example. These extra revenue streams have not yet changed how gaming companies think of F2P though. They are still the poor mans MMO.
My mom told me, son go for it its FREE:P
P.S On P2P mmo's 90% have graphics that are "meh"(WoW as example terible cartoony graphics from 90s) have !-? above head quests hubs with rediculous kill 10x boar quests, not more then 3-4 classes biggest thing most P2P have recycle of old ideas made in new painted coat, combat is many times made by some cheap punk under a bridge in some part of the world for 10cents a hour.
We know now in the last couple of years thats also not true when company have more funding means more content and quality, we seen plenty of failors of past 6 years from big budget companys becouse of lack of content and quality.
A bit of a different subject but there are ways around large digital distribution, such as progressive downloads (aka downloading while your in the game start areas). I do feel direct digital distribution is the future, cut out those horrible studio's. Now that is something killing the industry.
This is only my humble opinion, Most games are shallow, and lacking in any substantial material .. I'd love to pay for a game i knew was going to keep me interested for more than a couple of months, but todays companies making the MMO's seem to be after the fast buck and rush out products that are good IP's but lack in any real substance and become boring to play. So i think thats why so many have to go the F2P rout ... because thank god not everybody will pay a sub for games that are below par.
You have some titles like AION, and Rift that i was surprised went free to play ... IMHO i think those 2 games are fun and full of stuff to do and keep you going for a long time, but AION did have its issues with grinding levels .. thats what drove me away from it and even when it went free to play i didnt go back.
I didn't read the whole post sorry but its like this - mortgage, 2 kids whose games I need to subsidise, plus just the cost of the kids, 2 cars, wife, 2 dogs, 2 cats, life - that's why I play F2P games.
.....Are you for real? BOTH games were not made for F2P. You're acting like the company went 'Let us make it F2P, and use the best tech that we have'. Majority of F2P have graphics that are 'ok', or have been used a million times before. There also is no reason I see why people with a short amount of time would go F2P as opposed to a subscription. That's a loop hole argument. It's like saying 'Because she is allergic to eggs, she sits in the bath tub'. What in the world? Also, the last I checked AoC, it's no better than what it use to be or worse, it's as much on life support as Ultima Online.
The only reason games go F2P is because they are failing. Some people think it's because they actually care to keep the game like they knew it in subscription mode. That is never the case. It's just to make a quick leap and hope they can still make money off that game while tending to another.
To the OP. There is no real reason for the influx. Someone in each company kept reckoning it was a great way to make a game and make far more money as an MMORPG than to ask a subscription fee. For whatever reason, they feel that it makes them more successful. Player bases of sorts keep saying 'But they are still alive, and doing better'. Got news for you - nowhere near what they COULD have been doing. The moment they hit F2P, your concern as a player are placed on the back burner. The moment you cannot handle a mechanic of the game, who cares? Nobody.
I hope this era ends relatively soon.. or something great comes out. You know, a game where people get paid to make you the best environment they can, with stunning gameplay. Because, you know.. a dedicated team on steady income that isn't based on random purchases is probably going to make it more enjoyable for both parties. Sounds logical to me.
Considering pretty much every MMO out there is now F2P, aside from Darkfall, WoW and EVE, thats hardly true.
What is the appeal?
1) No barrier to entry.
2) Pay as much as you feel like, some may want to pay more, others less.
Most are moving away from P2W models like Runes of Magic. It would take a pretty special game to compete with the existing MMOs that have gone F2P. So you wont be seeing another sub game in a while.
WoW, EvE, darkfall any other?
No. A "good" game is worth the same as the the price of the next game that is as fun.
If that next game is free, the "good" game is worth exactly nothing.
AC1/2 (one subscription, both games).
I'm sure there are actually several more too.