Originally posted by VengeSunsoar Originally posted by azmundaiOriginally posted by colddog04Originally posted by azmundaiOriginally posted by BoneserinoOriginally posted by Squeak69Originally posted by BoneserinoAnd here is where your argument falls apart. Because if a game with high production values can survive as a F2P game and not a sub game, what does that say about the sub model of payment? Basically it says that high production value MMO's have a better chance of surviving as an F2P model and also, that if you make a big production value F2P game it should do equally well. Its the sub model MMO's that are doing poorly regardless of how you look at it.Nice try tho!
three is a large difrence between what makes you more money as a company and what makes a better game, last time i checked fast food chains make on average more profit in a day then a high class resterant dose, due to the huge gap in expense and saleries,the same thing can be applied to games while it is true that F2P makes companies more money it is mainly due to the large gap in costs VS income.Huh? I fail to see any valid point in your ridiculous anology. Sorryits pretty obvious.fast food (f2p) < high class restaurant (p2p) ..big mac < Fuddruckers < $10 NYC Restaurant Burger. big macs give you a stomach ache while the $10 NYC Restaurant Burger is better than se.. ok well maybe not quite that good, but .. almost!He was asking for a valid point pertaining to the discussion. Since no one can agree that F2P games are like McDonalds and P2P games are like high class restaurants, his point is useless and invalid. Actually, WoW is the game people compare to fast food the most and it is one of the last P2P games in existence.I can agree that fast food games are like f2p games. New Wow might as well be f2p. Haven't played New Wow for more than a couple of months either. Most of the p2p that have come out have been pretty poor in content, execution and cs... just like f2p. There really is no difference.
and they go f2p because of it, because they are not worth $15 a month.
id rather play a game that is actually worth $15 a month.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity. I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Originally posted by BoneserinoAnd here is where your argument falls apart. Because if a game with high production values can survive as a F2P game and not a sub game, what does that say about the sub model of payment? Basically it says that high production value MMO's have a better chance of surviving as an F2P model and also, that if you make a big production value F2P game it should do equally well. Its the sub model MMO's that are doing poorly regardless of how you look at it.Nice try tho!
three is a large difrence between what makes you more money as a company and what makes a better game, last time i checked fast food chains make on average more profit in a day then a high class resterant dose, due to the huge gap in expense and saleries,the same thing can be applied to games while it is true that F2P makes companies more money it is mainly due to the large gap in costs VS income.
Huh? I fail to see any valid point in your ridiculous anology. Sorry
its pretty obvious.fast food (f2p) < high class restaurant (p2p) ..big mac < Fuddruckers < $10 NYC Restaurant Burger. big macs give you a stomach ache while the $10 NYC Restaurant Burger is better than se.. ok well maybe not quite that good, but .. almost!
He was asking for a valid point pertaining to the discussion. Since no one can agree that F2P games are like McDonalds and P2P games are like high class restaurants, his point is useless and invalid.
Actually, WoW is the game people compare to fast food the most and it is one of the last P2P games in existence.
I can agree that fast food games are like f2p games. New Wow might as well be f2p. Haven't played New Wow for more than a couple of months either.
Most of the p2p that have come out have been pretty poor in content, execution and cs... just like f2p. There really is no difference.
Very true. Thats why many P2P games go F2P is because it's not worth $15 a month. Maybe $5 a month but not $15. The root cause is too many MMOs not enough good Developers or MMO Publishers out there anymore. Too many Publishers think they will hit the WoW Jackpot which is just unrealistic. Just like SWTOR 250 Million to make the game and they are not likely to ever make the 250 Million back.
I don't understand the recent boom in popularity about the F2P model, Everyone's mom is talking about F2P. I ask, why?
Every F2P game I have played has been very under whelming.
- The graphics are "meh."
- The game play is always generic questing with the yellow Exclamation mark.
- Never more than 3-4 classes, usually genaric.
- Never anything new, always just recycled ideas done a billion times over.
- The combat and overall game feels like it was made in some ones garage.
Besides being a cheap @ss, what do people see in these games?
there is nothing cheap about F2P, its very misleading, unless it is cosmetics only items then its a P2W game. Why do you think they go F2P in the 1st place, because the average person that plays 4-8hours a day ends up spending 40-50$ a month. Those that log on now again even end up paying 10-30$ a month. The numbers are out there just do a little research and you will see those that dont spend a dime are around 5% of the total pop. People like P2W games for 2 reasons, 1) they are broke and only spend money as they get it (about 10% of the pop) 2) they have a lot of money to burn (like me) and end up spending a couple hundred a month because that is less then 1% of their monthly income.
Trust me when I say all those that are about to flame me fall right into either of those categories, the time it fails is when you come across a company like PWE that straight up robs you of your money because people like me will leave quick fast in a hurry.
Originally posted by BoneserinoAnd here is where your argument falls apart. Because if a game with high production values can survive as a F2P game and not a sub game, what does that say about the sub model of payment? Basically it says that high production value MMO's have a better chance of surviving as an F2P model and also, that if you make a big production value F2P game it should do equally well. Its the sub model MMO's that are doing poorly regardless of how you look at it.Nice try tho!
three is a large difrence between what makes you more money as a company and what makes a better game, last time i checked fast food chains make on average more profit in a day then a high class resterant dose, due to the huge gap in expense and saleries,the same thing can be applied to games while it is true that F2P makes companies more money it is mainly due to the large gap in costs VS income.
Huh? I fail to see any valid point in your ridiculous anology. Sorry
its pretty obvious.fast food (f2p) < high class restaurant (p2p) ..big mac < Fuddruckers < $10 NYC Restaurant Burger. big macs give you a stomach ache while the $10 NYC Restaurant Burger is better than se.. ok well maybe not quite that good, but .. almost!
He was asking for a valid point pertaining to the discussion. Since no one can agree that F2P games are like McDonalds and P2P games are like high class restaurants, his point is useless and invalid.
Actually, WoW is the game people compare to fast food the most and it is one of the last P2P games in existence.
I can agree that fast food games are like f2p games. New Wow might as well be f2p. Haven't played New Wow for more than a couple of months either.
Umm, written by you one post ago:
"wow, eq and uo are the only games that are worth playing for more than a couple of months."
Now it's "new WoW." You'll do anything to call something you don't like "fast food." Just like I can compare EQ and UO to old rank piles of shit if I wanted to, you have decided to use a random derogatory term as an analogy that doesn't make any sense to describe every F2P game on the planet.
I mean, how are you using the analogy anyway? Bad < Good?
Originally posted by BoneserinoAnd here is where your argument falls apart. Because if a game with high production values can survive as a F2P game and not a sub game, what does that say about the sub model of payment? Basically it says that high production value MMO's have a better chance of surviving as an F2P model and also, that if you make a big production value F2P game it should do equally well. Its the sub model MMO's that are doing poorly regardless of how you look at it.Nice try tho!
three is a large difrence between what makes you more money as a company and what makes a better game, last time i checked fast food chains make on average more profit in a day then a high class resterant dose, due to the huge gap in expense and saleries,the same thing can be applied to games while it is true that F2P makes companies more money it is mainly due to the large gap in costs VS income.
Huh? I fail to see any valid point in your ridiculous anology. Sorry
its pretty obvious.fast food (f2p) < high class restaurant (p2p) ..big mac < Fuddruckers < $10 NYC Restaurant Burger. big macs give you a stomach ache while the $10 NYC Restaurant Burger is better than se.. ok well maybe not quite that good, but .. almost!
He was asking for a valid point pertaining to the discussion. Since no one can agree that F2P games are like McDonalds and P2P games are like high class restaurants, his point is useless and invalid. Actually, WoW is the game people compare to fast food the most and it is one of the last P2P games in existence.
I can agree that fast food games are like f2p games. New Wow might as well be f2p. Haven't played New Wow for more than a couple of months either.
Most of the p2p that have come out have been pretty poor in content, execution and cs... just like f2p. There really is no difference.
and they go f2p because of it, because they are not worth $15 a month.
id rather play a game that is actually worth $15 a month.
I'm referencing the ones that didn't go f2p as well. All p2p MMO"s in general. IMO if most of the old games released today they would be f2p within a year as well, the quality of today's games is far better than them.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by BoneserinoAnd here is where your argument falls apart. Because if a game with high production values can survive as a F2P game and not a sub game, what does that say about the sub model of payment? Basically it says that high production value MMO's have a better chance of surviving as an F2P model and also, that if you make a big production value F2P game it should do equally well. Its the sub model MMO's that are doing poorly regardless of how you look at it.Nice try tho!
three is a large difrence between what makes you more money as a company and what makes a better game, last time i checked fast food chains make on average more profit in a day then a high class resterant dose, due to the huge gap in expense and saleries,the same thing can be applied to games while it is true that F2P makes companies more money it is mainly due to the large gap in costs VS income.
Huh? I fail to see any valid point in your ridiculous anology. Sorry
its pretty obvious.fast food (f2p) < high class restaurant (p2p) ..big mac < Fuddruckers < $10 NYC Restaurant Burger. big macs give you a stomach ache while the $10 NYC Restaurant Burger is better than se.. ok well maybe not quite that good, but .. almost!
He was asking for a valid point pertaining to the discussion. Since no one can agree that F2P games are like McDonalds and P2P games are like high class restaurants, his point is useless and invalid.
Actually, WoW is the game people compare to fast food the most and it is one of the last P2P games in existence.
I can agree that fast food games are like f2p games. New Wow might as well be f2p. Haven't played New Wow for more than a couple of months either.
Most of the p2p that have come out have been pretty poor in content, execution and cs... just like f2p. There really is no difference.
Very true. Thats why many P2P games go F2P is because it's not worth $15 a month. Maybe $5 a month but not $15. The root cause is too many MMOs not enough good Developers or MMO Publishers out there anymore. Too many Publishers think they will hit the WoW Jackpot which is just unrealistic. Just like SWTOR 250 Million to make the game and they are not likely to ever make the 250 Million back.
Now this I do agree with.
Most of everything is crap. The payment model has nothing to do with it. Of course I say that about old developers as well.
edit - excpet SwTor made the money back long ago. 2 million box sales at 50 bucks plus over a year now of 500,000 subs, plus 2 million f2p players. They made their money back ages ago.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
Originally posted by BoneserinoAnd here is where your argument falls apart. Because if a game with high production values can survive as a F2P game and not a sub game, what does that say about the sub model of payment? Basically it says that high production value MMO's have a better chance of surviving as an F2P model and also, that if you make a big production value F2P game it should do equally well. Its the sub model MMO's that are doing poorly regardless of how you look at it.Nice try tho!
three is a large difrence between what makes you more money as a company and what makes a better game, last time i checked fast food chains make on average more profit in a day then a high class resterant dose, due to the huge gap in expense and saleries,the same thing can be applied to games while it is true that F2P makes companies more money it is mainly due to the large gap in costs VS income.
Huh? I fail to see any valid point in your ridiculous anology. Sorry
its pretty obvious.fast food (f2p) < high class restaurant (p2p) ..big mac < Fuddruckers < $10 NYC Restaurant Burger. big macs give you a stomach ache while the $10 NYC Restaurant Burger is better than se.. ok well maybe not quite that good, but .. almost!
He was asking for a valid point pertaining to the discussion. Since no one can agree that F2P games are like McDonalds and P2P games are like high class restaurants, his point is useless and invalid.
Actually, WoW is the game people compare to fast food the most and it is one of the last P2P games in existence.
I can agree that fast food games are like f2p games. New Wow might as well be f2p. Haven't played New Wow for more than a couple of months either.
Most of the p2p that have come out have been pretty poor in content, execution and cs... just like f2p. There really is no difference.
Very true. Thats why many P2P games go F2P is because it's not worth $15 a month. Maybe $5 a month but not $15. The root cause is too many MMOs not enough good Developers or MMO Publishers out there anymore. Too many Publishers think they will hit the WoW Jackpot which is just unrealistic. Just like SWTOR 250 Million to make the game and they are not likely to ever make the 250 Million back.
Now this I do agree with.
Most of everything is crap. The payment model has nothing to do with it. Of course I say that about old developers as well.
True there were some crappy old developers however when there were fewer MMOs on the market there was a large pool of good developers. Today Not so much because that pool it so spread thin you might have 3 or 4 good developers for a game like SWTOR than then 147 crappy line developers that alls they can do is write so so lines of code. So then you get into a situation where the game is less then stellar. Give me 50 to 60 Really good really strong high paying developers and you would have a better game than what comes out today.
What else does there need to be? People don't want to pay, and the companies aren't making them (right away). Unless you have tons of money, people will always chose the one that costs less, and free is as little as they need to be.
F2P is ruining the genre, in my opinion, but what can ya do?
What else does there need to be? People don't want to pay, and the companies aren't making them (right away). Unless you have tons of money, people will always chose the one that costs less, and free is as little as they need to be.
F2P is ruining the genre, in my opinion, but what can ya do?
Well is is ruining the genre right now. However People think all this free to play is sustainable. Well its not and we will see it when publishers start seeing they are not making enough money even in F2P cash shops when they invested hundreds of millions of dollars into a game. Then publishers will close or just shut down the game period. Look at City of heroes it shut down because it was no longer profitable even in the F2P mode.
What else does there need to be? People don't want to pay, and the companies aren't making them (right away). Unless you have tons of money, people will always chose the one that costs less, and free is as little as they need to be.
F2P is ruining the genre, in my opinion, but what can ya do?
Well is is ruining the genre right now. However People think all this free to play is sustainable. Well its not and we will see it when publishers start seeing they are not making enough money even in F2P cash shops when they invested hundreds of millions of dollars into a game. Then publishers will close or just shut down the game period. Look at City of heroes it shut down because it was no longer profitable even in the F2P mode.
We don't actually no that. All indicators are, which isn't many, was that the population had held stable for 8 years or so and the game was shut down, not becasue it wasn't profitable, but because it wasn't profitable enough.
Is f2p sustainable? The model has been around since before UO with success, so yes it's sustainable.
Is f2p sustainable in today's market with 400+mmo's and many f2p? I'm not sure. However p2p is imo even less sustainable in this market that f2p.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
What else does there need to be? People don't want to pay, and the companies aren't making them (right away). Unless you have tons of money, people will always chose the one that costs less, and free is as little as they need to be.
F2P is ruining the genre, in my opinion, but what can ya do?
Well is is ruining the genre right now. However People think all this free to play is sustainable. Well its not and we will see it when publishers start seeing they are not making enough money even in F2P cash shops when they invested hundreds of millions of dollars into a game. Then publishers will close or just shut down the game period. Look at City of heroes it shut down because it was no longer profitable even in the F2P mode.
One game that came out 9 years ago and started as P2P is your only example of a F2P game that went under? Do you have any other examples to support your claim? Here are some P2P games that went under:
Matrix Online
Asheron's Call 2
Auto Assault
Tabula Rasa
Then there are many that had to go F2P in order to save themselves from shutting down under the P2P model.
What else does there need to be? People don't want to pay, and the companies aren't making them (right away). Unless you have tons of money, people will always chose the one that costs less, and free is as little as they need to be.
F2P is ruining the genre, in my opinion, but what can ya do?
Well is is ruining the genre right now. However People think all this free to play is sustainable. Well its not and we will see it when publishers start seeing they are not making enough money even in F2P cash shops when they invested hundreds of millions of dollars into a game. Then publishers will close or just shut down the game period. Look at City of heroes it shut down because it was no longer profitable even in the F2P mode.
One game that came out 9 years ago and started as P2P is your only example of a F2P game that went under? Do you have any other examples to support your claim? Here are some P2P games that went under:
Matrix Online
Asheron's Call 2
Auto Assault
Tabula Rasa
Then there are many that had to go F2P in order to save themselves from shutting down under the P2P model.
That is because not 1 of them was worth a subscription for many people. It does not help when you are spending 50 to 250 Million Dollars and only have 100K to 300K subscription players. F2P works if you create an MMO on 10 to 20 Million Dollar budget and focus on people paying for stuff out of a cash shop. F2P will become just another model however a model used by publishers that do not over spend on their game. P2P will also be a model when the game is worth a subscription and they work away from the $15 a month that all Sub based games have. If the sub based games varied from $5 to $15 you would see stable P2P games, just not a copy of Game WOW hoping you will hit the jack pot.
What else does there need to be? People don't want to pay, and the companies aren't making them (right away). Unless you have tons of money, people will always chose the one that costs less, and free is as little as they need to be.
F2P is ruining the genre, in my opinion, but what can ya do?
Well is is ruining the genre right now. However People think all this free to play is sustainable. Well its not and we will see it when publishers start seeing they are not making enough money even in F2P cash shops when they invested hundreds of millions of dollars into a game. Then publishers will close or just shut down the game period. Look at City of heroes it shut down because it was no longer profitable even in the F2P mode.
We don't actually no that. All indicators are, which isn't many, was that the population had held stable for 8 years or so and the game was shut down, not becasue it wasn't profitable, but because it wasn't profitable enough.
Is f2p sustainable? The model has been around since before UO with success, so yes it's sustainable.
Is f2p sustainable in today's market with 400+mmo's and many f2p? I'm not sure. However p2p is imo even less sustainable in this market that f2p.
For your 3rd comment. This is true the root cause of the problems is too many MMOs. Honestly there should be no more than 15 or so MMOs going at one time. Our current situation is unsustainable.
For your first comment all indicators on CoH is that it was barely profitable or not at all. I had a friend that played and knew few people that spent money if at all in the game. So I wouldn't be surprised if it was truly not many money at the time they pulled the plug. A publisher will not pull a plug on a game that is making a good profit.
I played CoH quite a bit over it's time and am reasonably confident that the population was stable at between 100-200k subscribers, until it went f2p.
After it went f2p there were a ton of people, I have no idea what the free to play/subscriber ratio was. I c an tell you that almost everyone bought the little expansion powers packs, costumes were so so.
Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it is bad.
What else does there need to be? People don't want to pay, and the companies aren't making them (right away). Unless you have tons of money, people will always chose the one that costs less, and free is as little as they need to be.
F2P is ruining the genre, in my opinion, but what can ya do?
Well is is ruining the genre right now. However People think all this free to play is sustainable. Well its not and we will see it when publishers start seeing they are not making enough money even in F2P cash shops when they invested hundreds of millions of dollars into a game. Then publishers will close or just shut down the game period. Look at City of heroes it shut down because it was no longer profitable even in the F2P mode.
One game that came out 9 years ago and started as P2P is your only example of a F2P game that went under? Do you have any other examples to support your claim? Here are some P2P games that went under:
Matrix Online
Asheron's Call 2
Auto Assault
Tabula Rasa
Then there are many that had to go F2P in order to save themselves from shutting down under the P2P model.
That is because not 1 of them was worth a subscription for many people. It does not help when you are spending 50 to 250 Million Dollars and only have 100K to 300K subscription players. F2P works if you create an MMO on 10 to 20 Million Dollar budget and focus on people paying for stuff out of a cash shop. F2P will become just another model however a model used by publishers that do not over spend on their game. P2P will also be a model when the game is worth a subscription and they work away from the $15 a month that all Sub based games have. If the sub based games varied from $5 to $15 you would see stable P2P games, just not a copy of Game WOW hoping you will hit the jack pot.
So then, no. You don't have any other examples and in reality, F2P games are more successful at staying afloat than P2P games overall. Which leads to F2P games being far more sustainable than P2P games. Your entire argument is based on make believe. There is nothing to support your position. You think that lowering the subscription price is going to make these P2P games MORE sustainable? I just, I don't know where you come up with this stuff.
Lured into thinking there playing it for free, but if they started keeping a record of how much they spend on the cashshops on a monthly basis I think 90% will be shocked and then decided that P2P games have better and far greater value.
However there are some out there that are good to dabble in and you can get away without putting a single penny into it, that's if you are willing to grind for days that is.
Pretty difficult to have a discussion with people who have an obvious complete and utter bias against the F2P payment model and just seem to want to blame it for all the woes of the industry.
That is if there truly are any woes and it is not just all some fantasy in these posters heads.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
I don't understand the recent boom in popularity about the F2P model, Everyone's mom is talking about F2P. I ask, why?
Every F2P game I have played has been very under whelming.
- The graphics are "meh."
- The game play is always generic questing with the yellow Exclamation mark.
- Never more than 3-4 classes, usually genaric.
- Never anything new, always just recycled ideas done a billion times over.
- The combat and overall game feels like it was made in some ones garage.
Besides being a cheap @ss, what do people see in these games?
Let's avoid treating all F2P games as identical; there are significant varieties of implementations under the F2P label. For example, an exception that proves my statement:
I play TERA currently, I can guarantee you that the graphics are not "meh".
TERA questing is classic style but that is a matter of taste, the leveling content is overwhelming. Also, quests can only be devised in so many ways: deliver, kill, gather, talk, or go to...
TERA has more than 4 classes.
Don't confuse MMO burnout as being a problem with "recycled ideas". The Star Wars movies are full of recycled ideas; and they were awesome.
Combat is TERA is a masterpiece to behold and very engaging.
Those who tread with ill intent Beneath our sacred firmament, Whether of Hammer or of Tree, Albion's might shall strike at thee!
Lured into thinking there playing it for free, but if they started keeping a record of how much they spend on the cashshops on a monthly basis I think 90% will be shocked and then decided that P2P games have better and far greater value.
However there are some out there that are good to dabble in and you can get away without putting a single penny into it, that's if you are willing to grind for days that is.
But of course you never grind for days with the P2P games.
90%??? I think that number relates to the number of people playing for free. I have been playing an F2P for 6 months and spent a total of $10. But you are right, I am sure paying $15 a month for the same game is a much better deal. Thanks for the tip!!
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Comments
Huh? I fail to see any valid point in your ridiculous anology. Sorry
its pretty obvious. fast food (f2p) < high class restaurant (p2p) .. big mac < Fuddruckers < $10 NYC Restaurant Burger. big macs give you a stomach ache while the $10 NYC Restaurant Burger is better than se.. ok well maybe not quite that good, but .. almost!
He was asking for a valid point pertaining to the discussion. Since no one can agree that F2P games are like McDonalds and P2P games are like high class restaurants, his point is useless and invalid. Actually, WoW is the game people compare to fast food the most and it is one of the last P2P games in existence.
I can agree that fast food games are like f2p games. New Wow might as well be f2p. Haven't played New Wow for more than a couple of months either.
Most of the p2p that have come out have been pretty poor in content, execution and cs... just like f2p. There really is no difference.
and they go f2p because of it, because they are not worth $15 a month.
id rather play a game that is actually worth $15 a month.
LFD tools are great for cramming people into content, but quality > quantity.
I am, usually on the sandbox .. more "hardcore" side of things, but I also do just want to have fun. So lighten up already
Very true. Thats why many P2P games go F2P is because it's not worth $15 a month. Maybe $5 a month but not $15. The root cause is too many MMOs not enough good Developers or MMO Publishers out there anymore. Too many Publishers think they will hit the WoW Jackpot which is just unrealistic. Just like SWTOR 250 Million to make the game and they are not likely to ever make the 250 Million back.
there is nothing cheap about F2P, its very misleading, unless it is cosmetics only items then its a P2W game. Why do you think they go F2P in the 1st place, because the average person that plays 4-8hours a day ends up spending 40-50$ a month. Those that log on now again even end up paying 10-30$ a month. The numbers are out there just do a little research and you will see those that dont spend a dime are around 5% of the total pop. People like P2W games for 2 reasons, 1) they are broke and only spend money as they get it (about 10% of the pop) 2) they have a lot of money to burn (like me) and end up spending a couple hundred a month because that is less then 1% of their monthly income.
Trust me when I say all those that are about to flame me fall right into either of those categories, the time it fails is when you come across a company like PWE that straight up robs you of your money because people like me will leave quick fast in a hurry.
Umm, written by you one post ago:
"wow, eq and uo are the only games that are worth playing for more than a couple of months."
Now it's "new WoW." You'll do anything to call something you don't like "fast food." Just like I can compare EQ and UO to old rank piles of shit if I wanted to, you have decided to use a random derogatory term as an analogy that doesn't make any sense to describe every F2P game on the planet.
I mean, how are you using the analogy anyway? Bad < Good?
I'm referencing the ones that didn't go f2p as well. All p2p MMO"s in general. IMO if most of the old games released today they would be f2p within a year as well, the quality of today's games is far better than them.
Now this I do agree with.
Most of everything is crap. The payment model has nothing to do with it. Of course I say that about old developers as well.
edit - excpet SwTor made the money back long ago. 2 million box sales at 50 bucks plus over a year now of 500,000 subs, plus 2 million f2p players. They made their money back ages ago.
True there were some crappy old developers however when there were fewer MMOs on the market there was a large pool of good developers. Today Not so much because that pool it so spread thin you might have 3 or 4 good developers for a game like SWTOR than then 147 crappy line developers that alls they can do is write so so lines of code. So then you get into a situation where the game is less then stellar. Give me 50 to 60 Really good really strong high paying developers and you would have a better game than what comes out today.
What else does there need to be? People don't want to pay, and the companies aren't making them (right away). Unless you have tons of money, people will always chose the one that costs less, and free is as little as they need to be.
F2P is ruining the genre, in my opinion, but what can ya do?
Well is is ruining the genre right now. However People think all this free to play is sustainable. Well its not and we will see it when publishers start seeing they are not making enough money even in F2P cash shops when they invested hundreds of millions of dollars into a game. Then publishers will close or just shut down the game period. Look at City of heroes it shut down because it was no longer profitable even in the F2P mode.
We don't actually no that. All indicators are, which isn't many, was that the population had held stable for 8 years or so and the game was shut down, not becasue it wasn't profitable, but because it wasn't profitable enough.
Is f2p sustainable? The model has been around since before UO with success, so yes it's sustainable.
Is f2p sustainable in today's market with 400+mmo's and many f2p? I'm not sure. However p2p is imo even less sustainable in this market that f2p.
I have a terrible fear of making a bad choice and paying 60.00 for a game that I really don't like.
I do not like playing beta. I wish there was a better way.......
Life is Short, Read a Book.
One game that came out 9 years ago and started as P2P is your only example of a F2P game that went under? Do you have any other examples to support your claim? Here are some P2P games that went under:
Matrix Online
Asheron's Call 2
Auto Assault
Tabula Rasa
Then there are many that had to go F2P in order to save themselves from shutting down under the P2P model.
So in summary, to answer the OP's question...
Can someone explain to me the appeal of F2P games?
The answer is:
No, at least not logically or coherently.
/endthread
That is because not 1 of them was worth a subscription for many people. It does not help when you are spending 50 to 250 Million Dollars and only have 100K to 300K subscription players. F2P works if you create an MMO on 10 to 20 Million Dollar budget and focus on people paying for stuff out of a cash shop. F2P will become just another model however a model used by publishers that do not over spend on their game. P2P will also be a model when the game is worth a subscription and they work away from the $15 a month that all Sub based games have. If the sub based games varied from $5 to $15 you would see stable P2P games, just not a copy of Game WOW hoping you will hit the jack pot.
For your 3rd comment. This is true the root cause of the problems is too many MMOs. Honestly there should be no more than 15 or so MMOs going at one time. Our current situation is unsustainable.
For your first comment all indicators on CoH is that it was barely profitable or not at all. I had a friend that played and knew few people that spent money if at all in the game. So I wouldn't be surprised if it was truly not many money at the time they pulled the plug. A publisher will not pull a plug on a game that is making a good profit.
I played CoH quite a bit over it's time and am reasonably confident that the population was stable at between 100-200k subscribers, until it went f2p.
After it went f2p there were a ton of people, I have no idea what the free to play/subscriber ratio was. I c an tell you that almost everyone bought the little expansion powers packs, costumes were so so.
They are free...?`That is good enough for me as it let me try things before i invest anything beyond time in them.
This have been a good conversation
So then, no. You don't have any other examples and in reality, F2P games are more successful at staying afloat than P2P games overall. Which leads to F2P games being far more sustainable than P2P games. Your entire argument is based on make believe. There is nothing to support your position. You think that lowering the subscription price is going to make these P2P games MORE sustainable? I just, I don't know where you come up with this stuff.
you must not play SP games then
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
"Negaholics are people who become addicted to negativity and self-doubt, they find fault in most things and never seem to be satisfied."
^MMORPG.com
Lured into thinking there playing it for free, but if they started keeping a record of how much they spend on the cashshops on a monthly basis I think 90% will be shocked and then decided that P2P games have better and far greater value.
However there are some out there that are good to dabble in and you can get away without putting a single penny into it, that's if you are willing to grind for days that is.
Shitty games lead to F2P and that economic model became popular.
Now there is a lot of games (not only MMOs) F2P really good.
Pretty difficult to have a discussion with people who have an obvious complete and utter bias against the F2P payment model and just seem to want to blame it for all the woes of the industry.
That is if there truly are any woes and it is not just all some fantasy in these posters heads.
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!
Let's avoid treating all F2P games as identical; there are significant varieties of implementations under the F2P label. For example, an exception that proves my statement:
Those who tread with ill intent
Beneath our sacred firmament,
Whether of Hammer or of Tree,
Albion's might shall strike at thee!
But of course you never grind for days with the P2P games.
90%??? I think that number relates to the number of people playing for free. I have been playing an F2P for 6 months and spent a total of $10. But you are right, I am sure paying $15 a month for the same game is a much better deal. Thanks for the tip!!
FFA Nonconsentual Full Loot PvP ...You know you want it!!