Do you guys realize some of the things you pretend to like would kill the games player base ? NO ONE wants to spend 30 minutes running across the world just to join a friend who has to log off now.
There are ways to do travel. Ships, Boats, Spells, Run Speed buffs etc. I don't support the wow, rift way or the way EQ is now, but there has to be some kind of fast ship travel this isnt 1999 no one wants to spend 15 minutes on a boat.
Then they can choose the large variety of theme park MMOs that are out now to play instead.
When are you going to understand that SOE isnt targeting the EQ1 fanboys?
They need to make MONEY. Smedley admitted SOE needs EQN to succeed. I assume what he means by that are some people are going to get cut if their biggest IP isnt a big hit with their new title (EQN)
Making games is about MONEY. They arent trying to make gamers from the year 2000 happy. They are trying to make the gamers of 2013 happy. They need money because no one would be making games if they only lost money off them.
Survey says, more people game casually than hardcore, and that's the unfortunate truth for you.
Who said they wouldnt make money? you?
If you make an MMO different enough from the past decade,people will try it.
If they made it like an EQ1 remake? they'd definitely have customers.
IMO traveling and the "massive world" sense it brings are really important to any RPG. What's the point of having a giant seamless world, with almost zero loading screens, and then proceed to add loading screens to implement fast travel?
I like many things about GW2, but the way they implemented travel isn't one of them. First, the fast travel points are too close together, so it's always better to click that button rather than travel by foot. Second, there are no mounts....that's just plain stupid, because travelling by foot really sucks. Yet another reason to fast travel all the time. Well done mounts are a big entertaining factor, they make you want to use them to explore the world....but no, fast travel everywhere. GW2's world is great, they should make people immersed on it.
I would like to see meaninful travelling in EQN. Amazing and realistic mounts, etc. I have nothing against fast travel (waypoints, portals), but it has to be the exception, the rare case, not everywhere, all the time. Same with flying mounts. Stuff like this slowly kills world immersion and when you finaly notice that the game world feels like a giant lobby, there is no way to go back because people are too used to it (see WoW current situation).
Do you guys realize some of the things you pretend to like would kill the games player base ? NO ONE wants to spend 30 minutes running across the world just to join a friend who has to log off now.
There are ways to do travel. Ships, Boats, Spells, Run Speed buffs etc. I don't support the wow, rift way or the way EQ is now, but there has to be some kind of fast ship travel this isnt 1999 no one wants to spend 15 minutes on a boat.
Then they can choose the large variety of theme park MMOs that are out now to play instead.
When are you going to understand that SOE isnt targeting the EQ1 fanboys?
They need to make MONEY. Smedley admitted SOE needs EQN to succeed. I assume what he means by that are some people are going to get cut if their biggest IP isnt a big hit with their new title (EQN)
Making games is about MONEY. They arent trying to make gamers from the year 2000 happy. They are trying to make the gamers of 2013 happy. They need money because no one would be making games if they only lost money off them.
Survey says, more people game casually than hardcore, and that's the unfortunate truth for you.
I'm sorry, but you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. SOE isn't out to make a casual MMO, nor is it trying to cater toward a more convinient playstyle.
I've already made this point but for some reason you decided not to listen. If SOE truely wanted to make the most money and cater toward casual gamers, then why are they making a sandbox MMO? Why don't they just merge with Zynga and start developing casual Facebook apps instead of making niche MMO's?
SOE is obviouly developing a game for a certain type of people, and unfortunately for you - a very large portion of these people don't want "convenient" hand-holding designs such as fast-travel.
Nothing annoys me more than being a warrior or traveling merchant in a world full of unique creatures, magic and massive lands and not being able to have a simple horse to travel on. And I don't care if its only slightly faster than my normal walk/run speed. It doesn't have to be a Porche. I just want something to ride on, something that creates the illusion of standard travel.
But one thing I would like this mount to be able to do is carry crap. Give it some cargo space, let me carry materials I gathered on my mount. Let me add Saddle Bags, Bridles, etc to my mount for neat appearances. Something like the horses in Vanguard.
And player owned boats. Seamless world? Has oceans? Has Crafters? Let us have boats! I want to be able to skirt around shallow waters in my row boat and eventually be able to build or purchase from a reputable crafter a ship capable of carrying my group across the ocean. Hell, if they have a boat system like old EQ, we could pick up the poor souls who managed to fall off the NPC boat.
Guess what I am saying is these are 2 features I would hope they would adapt from Vanguard.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
I remember back in EQ1 that there were places I just couldn't get to without a group or some levels. Travel was so challenging that even though I couldn't kill anytihng once I got there, I was still in awe of it all. Fast travel blows. Travel should be part of a MMORPG.
Nothing annoys me more than being a warrior or traveling merchant in a world full of unique creatures, magic and massive lands and not being able to have a simple horse to travel on. And I don't care if its only slightly faster than my normal walk/run speed. It doesn't have to be a Porche. I just want something to ride on, something that creates the illusion of standard travel.
But one thing I would like this mount to be able to do is carry crap. Give it some cargo space, let me carry materials I gathered on my mount. Let me add Saddle Bags, Bridles, etc to my mount for neat appearances. Something like the horses in Vanguard.
And player owned boats. Seamless world? Has oceans? Has Crafters? Let us have boats! I want to be able to skirt around shallow waters in my row boat and eventually be able to build or purchase from a reputable crafter a ship capable of carrying my group across the ocean. Hell, if they have a boat system like old EQ, we could pick up the poor souls who managed to fall off the NPC boat.
Guess what I am saying is these are 2 features I would hope they would adapt from Vanguard.
Hmm I think what you want is a pack pony rather than a mount. An excellent idea. Of course you could have a mount (or not) as well. But a pony for carrying additional stuff. Also encumbrance and weight should be brought back.
Boats are a bit more problematic I do not mind the idea of them but it is what happens to them after you leave the water. If they magically disappear into your backpack that is just a little too much, but if you leave them by the waters edge they should be subject to theft, damage and destruction.
I personally would love to see EQN limit fast travel to the bare minimum and take steps to make the "travel" aspect a fun and entertaining part of the game. As several people have mentioned, I think one of the most important and exciting parts of an MMO is a LARGE, scary world that throws a lot of curveballs at you. If fast travel is too widely used...most of that is skipped over. You level in a zone and then skip over it after its no longer useful to you.
For the posters making the "I only have 3 hours to play..I want those hours to be meaningful, not spent traveling"...you are IMO missing the point of a great MMO. What you are really saying is that "I want to be able to complete a rather large task in a short amount of time". You want to be able to log on, go to the dungeon, beat the dungeon, and get your new loot...all in your 3 hour play session. I'm not saying there shouldnt be options for that type of play...but they should strive for something more.
If you want the 3 hour complete session...you will have to choose a local dungeon, or an objective that is close by. If you want to go to the dungeon off in those distant mountains...you should have to work your way through said mountains...maybe for several days...to get to that dungeon. You will have to make different goals. "today my party is going to make it to this town, then tomorrow we will make it to the lake, then day three we will arrive at the dungeon" While that might sound long and tedious...if the devs make that journey an incredible adventure unto itself...the game has just provided you with a ton more fun content.
Going on adventures in the "dark and dangerous" parts of the world should not be easy. Attempting to accomplish one goal (raiding a dungeon) should lead you to several other cool and exciting adventures along the way...at least thats my opinion.
That being said, I think there should be some things that make travel easier as you get more powerful. I LOVE the idea of mounts meaning something. Get them, upgrade them, personalize them. Have different mounts for different purposes. Traveling a long distance?? Take a mount with a lot of stamina and extra inventory slots. Going somewhere in a hurry? Take more of a "sprinter".
As far as fast travel....it has to make sense and keep with immersion. Fast travel between MAJOR cities...fine...but not insta-click. Pay a fee to travel as part of an armed caravan that can't be killed. You can get on board and go AFK for a few min an arrive safe and sound. They will take main roads, and be slower than you could go on foot...but you don't have to do any work to get there. Want to go to a smaller town, in the middle of a dangerous area?? Impossible...its too dangerous for a caravan...or at least it will be MUCH more expensive. Want to go to a dungeon....you're going on foot...caravans would never dare to travel to such a place!!
Travel NEEDS to be an important part of the game. Make it fun, make it challenging, and most of all make it rewarding. It will add more content and allow tons of content to be enjoyed more than once.
Nothing annoys me more than being a warrior or traveling merchant in a world full of unique creatures, magic and massive lands and not being able to have a simple horse to travel on. And I don't care if its only slightly faster than my normal walk/run speed. It doesn't have to be a Porche. I just want something to ride on, something that creates the illusion of standard travel.
But one thing I would like this mount to be able to do is carry crap. Give it some cargo space, let me carry materials I gathered on my mount. Let me add Saddle Bags, Bridles, etc to my mount for neat appearances. Something like the horses in Vanguard.
And player owned boats. Seamless world? Has oceans? Has Crafters? Let us have boats! I want to be able to skirt around shallow waters in my row boat and eventually be able to build or purchase from a reputable crafter a ship capable of carrying my group across the ocean. Hell, if they have a boat system like old EQ, we could pick up the poor souls who managed to fall off the NPC boat.
Guess what I am saying is these are 2 features I would hope they would adapt from Vanguard.
Hmm I think what you want is a pack pony rather than a mount. An excellent idea. Of course you could have a mount (or not) as well. But a pony for carrying additional stuff. Also encumbrance and weight should be brought back.
Boats are a bit more problematic I do not mind the idea of them but it is what happens to them after you leave the water. If they magically disappear into your backpack that is just a little too much, but if you leave them by the waters edge they should be subject to theft, damage and destruction.
I think mounts would be best if the world was so large that mounts were absolutely needed to traverse the world. It would also be good if mounts had to be fed, could be killed, and could not be summoned or desummoned. It would make locations with stables the center hub of any area.
in my opinion portal type of traveling kills the immersion ... I like to see the world alive and watch people running around doing their thing. With mounts of some variaty of speed.and maybe a flight mount for even faster and safer with some effort gold wise and maybe not only. like when mounts were at Vanilla and tbc WoW,were you had to work your ass off to gain enough gold to buy them.
anything that involve teleports sadly makes the world seem empty dead..and thats not fun at all...its a real deal breaker for me already for GW2... Maybe 1-2 portals for the very very distant places.. other wise there is no point of making huge worlds in the first place.. so empty useless space.. not cool
I personally would love to see EQN limit fast travel to the bare minimum and take steps to make the "travel" aspect a fun and entertaining part of the game. As several people have mentioned, I think one of the most important and exciting parts of an MMO is a LARGE, scary world that throws a lot of curveballs at you. If fast travel is too widely used...most of that is skipped over. You level in a zone and then skip over it after its no longer useful to you.
For the posters making the "I only have 3 hours to play..I want those hours to be meaningful, not spent traveling"...you are IMO missing the point of a great MMO. What you are really saying is that "I want to be able to complete a rather large task in a short amount of time". You want to be able to log on, go to the dungeon, beat the dungeon, and get your new loot...all in your 3 hour play session. I'm not saying there shouldnt be options for that type of play...but they should strive for something more.
If you want the 3 hour complete session...you will have to choose a local dungeon, or an objective that is close by. If you want to go to the dungeon off in those distant mountains...you should have to work your way through said mountains...maybe for several days...to get to that dungeon. You will have to make different goals. "today my party is going to make it to this town, then tomorrow we will make it to the lake, then day three we will arrive at the dungeon" While that might sound long and tedious...if the devs make that journey an incredible adventure unto itself...the game has just provided you with a ton more fun content.
Going on adventures in the "dark and dangerous" parts of the world should not be easy. Attempting to accomplish one goal (raiding a dungeon) should lead you to several other cool and exciting adventures along the way...at least thats my opinion.
That being said, I think there should be some things that make travel easier as you get more powerful. I LOVE the idea of mounts meaning something. Get them, upgrade them, personalize them. Have different mounts for different purposes. Traveling a long distance?? Take a mount with a lot of stamina and extra inventory slots. Going somewhere in a hurry? Take more of a "sprinter".
As far as fast travel....it has to make sense and keep with immersion. Fast travel between MAJOR cities...fine...but not insta-click. Pay a fee to travel as part of an armed caravan that can't be killed. You can get on board and go AFK for a few min an arrive safe and sound. They will take main roads, and be slower than you could go on foot...but you don't have to do any work to get there. Want to go to a smaller town, in the middle of a dangerous area?? Impossible...its too dangerous for a caravan...or at least it will be MUCH more expensive. Want to go to a dungeon....you're going on foot...caravans would never dare to travel to such a place!!
Travel NEEDS to be an important part of the game. Make it fun, make it challenging, and most of all make it rewarding. It will add more content and allow tons of content to be enjoyed more than once.
Good read, I like how you broke it down to help people understand.
The only way, and I mean absolutely only way I could see a form of fast travel being viable in EQ Next would be something like a player run flight path that actually requires you to have certain skills to run a business, allowing you to hire the flight path attendants, as well as other skills to acquire the griffon or other beasts that will be doing the transporting. Perhaps even a system of taming and training before such beasts would be fit for use. These flight paths should NOT be static, but should be vendors you place dynamically (perhaps at a house or city) that allows players to pay a rate you set to use your griffon. It should also only allow a player to use it IF the griffon(s) are not already in the process of transporting other players. The shop and attendant should also be susceptible to pvp, especially if the flight path exists outside of a town.
I will be disappointed if they have fast travel in the same manner as the fast travel in GW2.
I enjoyed the travel in EQ1, it made the world feel big.
In GW2, the cost for the portal travel is a joke, it's so low it doesn't even make it hard to decide to use it or not, you will always use it. It makes the world feel very very small.
I would prefer they have boats ala EQ1, wizard and druid travel.
Insta travel - no matter how large and seamless your world is, makes the world feel small.
-Briz
I agree...the travel is a part of the adventure, too many ista travels ruin the feeling of exploration and make the world too small.
What is stopping you from traveling even if there are fast travel mechanics?
I already know the answer. "I dont want the temptation/I want people to play the same way I play."
It always comes down to "I want others to enjoy the game how I do" a lot of people are greedy consumers. Some people only have a few hours to kill. They dont want to spend 3/4 of it traveling, and the other 1/4 of their free time drinking after every single mob/actual gameplay.
Are you going to say "If they only can play 3 hours a day they shouldnt play at all?" That isnt a good marketing strategy for SOE when they have said their future is relying on EQN being a successful game.
What is a common trend for 3 of the biggest multi player games in the world right now? Call of Duty, League of Legends, World of Warcaft. Have an hour or two to kill? You can with those games. You can also play those games for 12 hours and benefit more than someone who plays for 2.
And even look at the growing sensation of cell phone games. On a break? Play your cell phone game. Wanna sit on the couch/in a comfy chair? Play your cell phone game.
Fact is - if there is fast travel, people will use it. I'm one of those people who prefer limited to no fast travel, but if the game has fast travel available at limited to no cost, I'm going to fast travel. And this is the case with most players.
The only way to get players to walk to destinations is by either removing that "temptation" or only provide it with a high cost. The argument I keep hearing about "Well if you don't like fast travel, just don't use it", just doesn't really work.
In the end you're going to piss off one group or another.
Which group do you think is larger, the group that wants the game like EQ1, or the group that plays 3 hours a day?
Again, I am not in favor of one way or the other, but from a business strategy standpoint, there is no way I'm shunning the majority of the MMORPG base.
I'm not really sure what you're getting at. If SOE wanted to make an incredibly easy and convenient game to begin with, they would have made another WoW clone just like every other recent MMO.
It also would make sense to copy WoW from a "business strategy standpoint" instead of going for the niche sandbox crowd, right?
Some people and their idea of what constitutes as 'difficulty' is hilarious. But thankfully SOE understands that as you can read the OP again, the answer by SOE is there.
Long travelling time doesn't make a game difficult or challenging but tedious. How about you people give 'real' suggestions on how to make the game challenging instead of sticking to superficial things like 'slow and long traveling times' ?
As far as immersion is concerned... Skyrim lets to you zoom around the map once the location is discovered and still that world is more immersive than any MMO to this date.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
When I come home from work and have 2 hours to invest into a game Im interested in gameplay. Travel is not gameplay.
So to all you that remain online 24/7 feel free to travel for hours on end just don't drag me along into your chores.
Applies the same to LFG spamming or trade channel auctioning. I'm fine if you find joy in all of the above and have time to waste for such activities just don't DEMAND it's like that for everyone else.
I understand you, but who sais that you have to travel ?
Have your friends make charactheres in the same area as you , and later you can make a big journey together when you have more time to play than 2 hours..
Some people and their idea of what constitutes as 'difficulty' is hilarious. But thankfully SOE understands that as you can read the OP again, the answer by SOE is there.
Long travelling time doesn't make a game difficult or challenging but tedious. How about you people give 'real' suggestions on how to make the game challenging instead of sticking to superficial things like 'slow and long traveling times' ?
As far as immersion is concerned... Skyrim lets to you zoom around the map once the location is discovered and still that world is more immersive than any MMO to this date.
Says the guy that, dollars to donuts, never played an MMO before WoW.
Classic EQ travel was very challenging, immersive and fun. It would get your heart racing being half an hour away from your bind city and narrowly escaping a clan of angry orcs roaming through a zone.
At higher levels those mobs weren't an issue, but you also had portals and players capable of porting available to you. That was the proper progression, not being able to instantly travel anywhere, circumventing the dangers of the world while simultaneously making it feel trivial and small.
I will be disappointed if they have fast travel in the same manner as the fast travel in GW2.
I enjoyed the travel in EQ1, it made the world feel big.
In GW2, the cost for the portal travel is a joke, it's so low it doesn't even make it hard to decide to use it or not, you will always use it. It makes the world feel very very small.
I would prefer they have boats ala EQ1, wizard and druid travel.
Insta travel - no matter how large and seamless your world is, makes the world feel small.
-Briz
I agree...the travel is a part of the adventure, too many ista travels ruin the feeling of exploration and make the world too small.
What is stopping you from traveling even if there are fast travel mechanics?
I already know the answer. "I dont want the temptation/I want people to play the same way I play."
It always comes down to "I want others to enjoy the game how I do" a lot of people are greedy consumers. Some people only have a few hours to kill. They dont want to spend 3/4 of it traveling, and the other 1/4 of their free time drinking after every single mob/actual gameplay.
Are you going to say "If they only can play 3 hours a day they shouldnt play at all?" That isnt a good marketing strategy for SOE when they have said their future is relying on EQN being a successful game.
What is a common trend for 3 of the biggest multi player games in the world right now? Call of Duty, League of Legends, World of Warcaft. Have an hour or two to kill? You can with those games. You can also play those games for 12 hours and benefit more than someone who plays for 2.
And even look at the growing sensation of cell phone games. On a break? Play your cell phone game. Wanna sit on the couch/in a comfy chair? Play your cell phone game.
Fact is - if there is fast travel, people will use it. I'm one of those people who prefer limited to no fast travel, but if the game has fast travel available at limited to no cost, I'm going to fast travel. And this is the case with most players.
The only way to get players to walk to destinations is by either removing that "temptation" or only provide it with a high cost. The argument I keep hearing about "Well if you don't like fast travel, just don't use it", just doesn't really work.
In the end you're going to piss off one group or another.
Which group do you think is larger, the group that wants the game like EQ1, or the group that plays 3 hours a day?
Again, I am not in favor of one way or the other, but from a business strategy standpoint, there is no way I'm shunning the majority of the MMORPG base.
I'm not really sure what you're getting at. If SOE wanted to make an incredibly easy and convenient game to begin with, they would have made another WoW clone just like every other recent MMO.
It also would make sense to copy WoW from a "business strategy standpoint" instead of going for the niche sandbox crowd, right?
Some people and their idea of what constitutes as 'difficulty' is hilarious. But thankfully SOE understands that as you can read the OP again, the answer by SOE is there.
Long travelling time doesn't make a game difficult or challenging but tedious. How about you people give 'real' suggestions on how to make the game challenging instead of sticking to superficial things like 'slow and long traveling times' ?
As far as immersion is concerned... Skyrim lets to you zoom around the map once the location is discovered and still that world is more immersive than any MMO to this date.
I want long travel times because instantaneous travel removes people from the world. Without people traveling through the world, it feels barren and lifeless. Skyrim is not an MMO.
Says the guy that, dollars to donuts, never played an MMO before WoW.
Classic EQ travel was very challenging, immersive and fun. It would get your heart racing being half an hour away from your bind city and narrowly escaping a clan of angry orcs roaming through a zone.
At higher levels those mobs weren't an issue, but you also had portals and players capable of porting available to you. That was the proper progression, not being able to instantly travel anywhere, circumventing the dangers of the world while simultaneously making it feel trivial and small.
Actually my first MMO was Anarchy Online but thanks for your asnine assumptions.
We are talking about making game challenging not tedious. Atleast get the idea of 'challenge' right first before you decided to tell devs how to make a game difficult and challenging.
Originally posted by ice-vortex
I want long travel times because instantaneous travel removes people from the world. Without people traveling through the world, it feels barren and lifeless. Skyrim is not an MMO.
Skyrim is not an MMO and yet has the most immersive world compared to any MMO regardless of instant travelling. The whole 'giving MMO world a life' factor isn't just depended upon players going on long travels through same routes for the 100th time.
Anyways, why to even argue when SOE has already replied that it is matter of preference and some people prefer fast travels. So they are not going to just remove it completely from EQnext.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Says the guy that, dollars to donuts, never played an MMO before WoW.
Classic EQ travel was very challenging, immersive and fun. It would get your heart racing being half an hour away from your bind city and narrowly escaping a clan of angry orcs roaming through a zone.
At higher levels those mobs weren't an issue, but you also had portals and players capable of porting available to you. That was the proper progression, not being able to instantly travel anywhere, circumventing the dangers of the world while simultaneously making it feel trivial and small.
Actually my first MMO was Anarchy Online but thanks for your asnine assumptions.
We are talking about making game challenging not tedious. Atleast get the idea of 'challenge' right first before you decided to tell devs how to make a game difficult and challenging.
Originally posted by ice-vortex
I want long travel times because instantaneous travel removes people from the world. Without people traveling through the world, it feels barren and lifeless. Skyrim is not an MMO.
Skyrim is not an MMO and yet has the most immersive world compared to any MMO regardless of instant travelling. The whole 'giving MMO world a life' factor isn't just depended upon players going on long travels through same routes for the 100th time.
Anyways, why to even argue when SOE has already replied that it is matter of preference and some people prefer fast travels. So they are not going to just remove it completely from EQnext.
Uh, SOE, specifically Georgeson, was discussing EQ2, not EQN.
I will be disappointed if they have fast travel in the same manner as the fast travel in GW2.
I enjoyed the travel in EQ1, it made the world feel big.
In GW2, the cost for the portal travel is a joke, it's so low it doesn't even make it hard to decide to use it or not, you will always use it. It makes the world feel very very small.
I would prefer they have boats ala EQ1, wizard and druid travel.
Insta travel - no matter how large and seamless your world is, makes the world feel small.
-Briz
I agree...the travel is a part of the adventure, too many ista travels ruin the feeling of exploration and make the world too small.
What is stopping you from traveling even if there are fast travel mechanics?
I already know the answer. "I dont want the temptation/I want people to play the same way I play."
It always comes down to "I want others to enjoy the game how I do" a lot of people are greedy consumers. Some people only have a few hours to kill. They dont want to spend 3/4 of it traveling, and the other 1/4 of their free time drinking after every single mob/actual gameplay.
Are you going to say "If they only can play 3 hours a day they shouldnt play at all?" That isnt a good marketing strategy for SOE when they have said their future is relying on EQN being a successful game.
What is a common trend for 3 of the biggest multi player games in the world right now? Call of Duty, League of Legends, World of Warcaft. Have an hour or two to kill? You can with those games. You can also play those games for 12 hours and benefit more than someone who plays for 2.
And even look at the growing sensation of cell phone games. On a break? Play your cell phone game. Wanna sit on the couch/in a comfy chair? Play your cell phone game.
Fact is - if there is fast travel, people will use it. I'm one of those people who prefer limited to no fast travel, but if the game has fast travel available at limited to no cost, I'm going to fast travel. And this is the case with most players.
The only way to get players to walk to destinations is by either removing that "temptation" or only provide it with a high cost. The argument I keep hearing about "Well if you don't like fast travel, just don't use it", just doesn't really work.
In the end you're going to piss off one group or another.
Which group do you think is larger, the group that wants the game like EQ1, or the group that plays 3 hours a day?
Again, I am not in favor of one way or the other, but from a business strategy standpoint, there is no way I'm shunning the majority of the MMORPG base.
I'm not really sure what you're getting at. If SOE wanted to make an incredibly easy and convenient game to begin with, they would have made another WoW clone just like every other recent MMO.
It also would make sense to copy WoW from a "business strategy standpoint" instead of going for the niche sandbox crowd, right?
Some people and their idea of what constitutes as 'difficulty' is hilarious. But thankfully SOE understands that as you can read the OP again, the answer by SOE is there.
Long travelling time doesn't make a game difficult or challenging but tedious. How about you people give 'real' suggestions on how to make the game challenging instead of sticking to superficial things like 'slow and long traveling times' ?
As far as immersion is concerned... Skyrim lets to you zoom around the map once the location is discovered and still that world is more immersive than any MMO to this date.
Interesting - so just because you don't define something to be difficult, it must not be!
Wrong. If you are at least even partially competent and/or literate, then you can distinctly see that the majority consensus on this subject is partial towards limited to no fast travel. You don't see people proclaiming "I want no fast travel because I like tedious and inconvenient game design!", they say it because these people find challenge and excitement in it.
I couldn't really care less what your definition of "real suggestions" are. If you want to go play a game that holds your hand with every design, there are plenty out there right now. Just because you spout that a certain design is "tedious" or "inconvenient" doesn't make it so for others. Would you also say that exclamation points and question marks are necessary for questing to not be "tedious"? How about quest helpers - since finding out things on your own is just so inconvenient and "superficial"? Maybe dungeon finder queues too?
In fact, how about scrap any sort of questing, travel, and monster killing altogether and just instantly get rewarded for clicking on an npc. That would keep players away from any "tedious" or "superficial" tasks, right?
I think there needs to be a comprise between both Casual play with quick travel....instant travel, and the good ol feeling of putting on your hiking boots and taking a trek across the map.
Here is my suggestion. Ultima Online had it down perfect. Early UO did everything right. They allowed players who had enough skill level to "Mark" a rune with a location within the world. You could use that rune to recall back to that location any time you wanted.
You would mark key locations where you travel to often. Dungeons, Guild castles, place that was quite so you could mine and chop trees in peace.
These runes also become a market. People would sell and trade these runes, and offer their services for lower levels that did not have the skill level to mark runes or never been to that location.
Now just limit the number of runes you can carry base of skill level or by character level or some other metric.
I think this is a perfect compromise, and also generates a market that connects players to each other.
Interesting - so just because you don't define something to be difficult, it must not be!
Wrong. If you are at least even partially competent and/or literate, then you can distinctly see that the majority consensus on this subject is partial towards limited to no fast travel. You don't see people proclaiming "I want no fast travel because I like tedious and inconvenient game design!", they say it because these people find challenge and excitement in it.
I couldn't really care less what your definition of "real suggestions" are. If you want to go play a game that holds your hand with every design, there are plenty out there right now. Just because you spout that a certain design is "tedious" or "inconvenient" doesn't make it so for others. Would you also say that exclamation points and question marks are necessary for questing to not be "tedious"? How about quest helpers - since finding out things on your own is just so inconvenient and "superficial"? Maybe dungeon finder queues too?
In fact, how about scrap any sort of questing, travel, and monster killing altogether and just instantly get rewarded for clicking on an npc. That would keep players away from any "tedious" or "superficial" tasks, right?
No it is about redefining and changing the meaning of what is difficult and challenging content. Got nothing to do with how i feel. How many of you can actually say with a straight face that travelling for an hour from point A to be is challenging after doing its for 100th time?
The challenge should be in the activity itself for example it is not challenging if you it takes 2 hours to kill a BOSS with huge HP pool..but it is challenging if that boss has skills and tactics which makes the fight a challenge.
Rest of your post is just trying to put words into my mouth so i am going to ignore that.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
I like GW2s and Rift's method. There are portals throughout but getting from one to another is a challenge. Though I like the additinal step of removing mounts as in GW2, thus making portal to portal very hazardous to your health at later levels.
I hate "speed racing" travel. I see no point in wasting my time by showing me a creature move from one place to another.
It wasn't the voce acting that hurt STar Wars, it was the travel methods. They were slow and horrendous.
If you want to turn off most gamers, tell them it will take an hour or two on occasion to play with family and friends.
Interesting - so just because you don't define something to be difficult, it must not be!
Wrong. If you are at least even partially competent and/or literate, then you can distinctly see that the majority consensus on this subject is partial towards limited to no fast travel. You don't see people proclaiming "I want no fast travel because I like tedious and inconvenient game design!", they say it because these people find challenge and excitement in it.
I couldn't really care less what your definition of "real suggestions" are. If you want to go play a game that holds your hand with every design, there are plenty out there right now. Just because you spout that a certain design is "tedious" or "inconvenient" doesn't make it so for others. Would you also say that exclamation points and question marks are necessary for questing to not be "tedious"? How about quest helpers - since finding out things on your own is just so inconvenient and "superficial"? Maybe dungeon finder queues too?
In fact, how about scrap any sort of questing, travel, and monster killing altogether and just instantly get rewarded for clicking on an npc. That would keep players away from any "tedious" or "superficial" tasks, right?
No it is about redefining and changing the meaning of what is difficult and challenging content. Got nothing to do with how i feel. How many of you can actually say with a straight face that travelling for an hour from point A to be is challenging after doing its for 100th time?
The challenge should be in the activity itself for example it is not challenging if you it takes 2 hours to kill a BOSS with huge HP pool..but it is challenging if that boss has skills and tactics which makes the fight a challenge.
Rest of your post is just trying to put words into my mouth so i am going to ignore that.
I'm not putting any words in your mouth, that is completely the basis of your logic.
Your same argument can made against virtually any game design, provided that you just make the claim that a particular design is just "tedious" and not challenging at all. Some people may find killing monsters being tedious, others may find questing to be tedious. The idea that something taking a long period of time isn't difficult is subjective.
Would a 12 hour work day be less "challenging" if it was reduced down to five minutes? I would think so. The same concept can be applied to MMO's. The reason many boss fights take so long is because it makes the encounter much more physically and mentally challenging. Although running from point A to point B isn't as physically taxing as working a real job, it still takes a considerate amount dedication and patience. And if you don't see any sort of challenge in that, then I'd say it's about time to reevaluate your logic.
I like the attunement version of travel. You must visit certain "shrines" on foot there after you would be able to fast travel to those shrines but the process would take you through an fold in the fabric of space and time in which you would have t0 face a series of battles until you finally step out at your destination shrine exhausted and battle weary and unable to fight again for 10mins(UNLESS you buy a certain thingy from the EQN Store that revives you instantly). If you choose not to buy the thingy from the store then you must remain seated staring at your mystical tomes meditating for the full 10 mins.(this tome would of course block your whole field of view)
I would like a mount system like Dark Age of Camelot, I don't need to own mounts but it is nice to be able to rent one to get to various points.
And yes, I enjoyed the long ass travel times of the original game. It was always exciting to be heading down the dock in Freeport only to see that boat start sailing away and HOPING that you made it in time to jump yourself onto that boat because 45 minutes...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
Interesting - so just because you don't define something to be difficult, it must not be!
Wrong. If you are at least even partially competent and/or literate, then you can distinctly see that the majority consensus on this subject is partial towards limited to no fast travel. You don't see people proclaiming "I want no fast travel because I like tedious and inconvenient game design!", they say it because these people find challenge and excitement in it.
I couldn't really care less what your definition of "real suggestions" are. If you want to go play a game that holds your hand with every design, there are plenty out there right now. Just because you spout that a certain design is "tedious" or "inconvenient" doesn't make it so for others. Would you also say that exclamation points and question marks are necessary for questing to not be "tedious"? How about quest helpers - since finding out things on your own is just so inconvenient and "superficial"? Maybe dungeon finder queues too?
In fact, how about scrap any sort of questing, travel, and monster killing altogether and just instantly get rewarded for clicking on an npc. That would keep players away from any "tedious" or "superficial" tasks, right?
No it is about redefining and changing the meaning of what is difficult and challenging content. Got nothing to do with how i feel. How many of you can actually say with a straight face that travelling for an hour from point A to be is challenging after doing its for 100th time?
The challenge should be in the activity itself for example it is not challenging if you it takes 2 hours to kill a BOSS with huge HP pool..but it is challenging if that boss has skills and tactics which makes the fight a challenge.
Rest of your post is just trying to put words into my mouth so i am going to ignore that.
I'm not putting any words in your mouth, that is completely the basis of your logic.
Your same argument can made against virtually any game design, provided that you just make the claim that a particular design is just "tedious" and not challenging at all. Some people may find killing monsters being tedious, others may find questing to be tedious. The idea that something taking a long period of time isn't difficult is subjective.
Would a 12 hour work day be less "challenging" if it was reduced down to five minutes? I would think so. The same concept can be applied to MMO's. The reason many boss fights take so long is because it makes the encounter much more physically and mentally challenging. Although running from point A to point B isn't as physically taxing as working a real job, it still takes a considerate amount dedication and patience. And if you don't see any sort of challenge in that, then I'd say it's about time to reevaluate your logic.
I don't find longer travel time challengeing I find it a annoying time sink.
and making something as taxing as a real job, is not making it challengeing it makes it annoying I come home to play games and relax and have fun not do a second job.
I enjoy a good challenge in a game I don't enjoy, time sinks, when a boss fight is nothing but a massive hit point pool and a wash and repeat attack pattern, its not a challenge its a annoyance.
P.S. compareing work to gmaeing is silly, for most people work isn't challengeing at all, its a time sink that geet your paid, some enjoy it some don't, most don't find it challengeing. using it as a comparison to gameing makes no sence.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
Interesting - so just because you don't define something to be difficult, it must not be!
Wrong. If you are at least even partially competent and/or literate, then you can distinctly see that the majority consensus on this subject is partial towards limited to no fast travel. You don't see people proclaiming "I want no fast travel because I like tedious and inconvenient game design!", they say it because these people find challenge and excitement in it.
I couldn't really care less what your definition of "real suggestions" are. If you want to go play a game that holds your hand with every design, there are plenty out there right now. Just because you spout that a certain design is "tedious" or "inconvenient" doesn't make it so for others. Would you also say that exclamation points and question marks are necessary for questing to not be "tedious"? How about quest helpers - since finding out things on your own is just so inconvenient and "superficial"? Maybe dungeon finder queues too?
In fact, how about scrap any sort of questing, travel, and monster killing altogether and just instantly get rewarded for clicking on an npc. That would keep players away from any "tedious" or "superficial" tasks, right?
No it is about redefining and changing the meaning of what is difficult and challenging content. Got nothing to do with how i feel. How many of you can actually say with a straight face that travelling for an hour from point A to be is challenging after doing its for 100th time?
The challenge should be in the activity itself for example it is not challenging if you it takes 2 hours to kill a BOSS with huge HP pool..but it is challenging if that boss has skills and tactics which makes the fight a challenge.
Rest of your post is just trying to put words into my mouth so i am going to ignore that.
I'm not putting any words in your mouth, that is completely the basis of your logic.
Your same argument can made against virtually any game design, provided that you just make the claim that a particular design is just "tedious" and not challenging at all. Some people may find killing monsters being tedious, others may find questing to be tedious. The idea that something taking a long period of time isn't difficult is subjective.
Would a 12 hour work day be less "challenging" if it was reduced down to five minutes? I would think so. The same concept can be applied to MMO's. The reason many boss fights take so long is because it makes the encounter much more physically and mentally challenging. Although running from point A to point B isn't as physically taxing as working a real job, it still takes a considerate amount dedication and patience. And if you don't see any sort of challenge in that, then I'd say it's about time to reevaluate your logic.
But that is not what i am trying to do here because i am only talking about 'travel times' not other features of the games.I am actually in favor of keeping both options instead of eliminating one or the other completely.
Working for 8 to 12 hours a day where you have to overcome a lot of challenges professionaly and personally is not same as sitting on your ass all day long in front of PC clicking buttons to get from point A to B. We can agree on that right?
Time sinks are not challenging...because the whole concept of challenge is rendered pointless when you have loads of spare time to burn on gaming. So anyone who can spend 8+ hours a day playing MMOS...getting from point A to B is not a challenge but just matter of investing loads of hours into it.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Comments
Who said they wouldnt make money? you?
If you make an MMO different enough from the past decade,people will try it.
If they made it like an EQ1 remake? they'd definitely have customers.
IMO traveling and the "massive world" sense it brings are really important to any RPG. What's the point of having a giant seamless world, with almost zero loading screens, and then proceed to add loading screens to implement fast travel?
I like many things about GW2, but the way they implemented travel isn't one of them. First, the fast travel points are too close together, so it's always better to click that button rather than travel by foot. Second, there are no mounts....that's just plain stupid, because travelling by foot really sucks. Yet another reason to fast travel all the time. Well done mounts are a big entertaining factor, they make you want to use them to explore the world....but no, fast travel everywhere. GW2's world is great, they should make people immersed on it.
I would like to see meaninful travelling in EQN. Amazing and realistic mounts, etc. I have nothing against fast travel (waypoints, portals), but it has to be the exception, the rare case, not everywhere, all the time. Same with flying mounts. Stuff like this slowly kills world immersion and when you finaly notice that the game world feels like a giant lobby, there is no way to go back because people are too used to it (see WoW current situation).
I'm sorry, but you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. SOE isn't out to make a casual MMO, nor is it trying to cater toward a more convinient playstyle.
I've already made this point but for some reason you decided not to listen. If SOE truely wanted to make the most money and cater toward casual gamers, then why are they making a sandbox MMO? Why don't they just merge with Zynga and start developing casual Facebook apps instead of making niche MMO's?
SOE is obviouly developing a game for a certain type of people, and unfortunately for you - a very large portion of these people don't want "convenient" hand-holding designs such as fast-travel.
There should be mounts.
Nothing annoys me more than being a warrior or traveling merchant in a world full of unique creatures, magic and massive lands and not being able to have a simple horse to travel on. And I don't care if its only slightly faster than my normal walk/run speed. It doesn't have to be a Porche. I just want something to ride on, something that creates the illusion of standard travel.
But one thing I would like this mount to be able to do is carry crap. Give it some cargo space, let me carry materials I gathered on my mount. Let me add Saddle Bags, Bridles, etc to my mount for neat appearances. Something like the horses in Vanguard.
And player owned boats. Seamless world? Has oceans? Has Crafters? Let us have boats! I want to be able to skirt around shallow waters in my row boat and eventually be able to build or purchase from a reputable crafter a ship capable of carrying my group across the ocean. Hell, if they have a boat system like old EQ, we could pick up the poor souls who managed to fall off the NPC boat.
Guess what I am saying is these are 2 features I would hope they would adapt from Vanguard.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Hmm I think what you want is a pack pony rather than a mount. An excellent idea. Of course you could have a mount (or not) as well. But a pony for carrying additional stuff. Also encumbrance and weight should be brought back.
Boats are a bit more problematic I do not mind the idea of them but it is what happens to them after you leave the water. If they magically disappear into your backpack that is just a little too much, but if you leave them by the waters edge they should be subject to theft, damage and destruction.
I personally would love to see EQN limit fast travel to the bare minimum and take steps to make the "travel" aspect a fun and entertaining part of the game. As several people have mentioned, I think one of the most important and exciting parts of an MMO is a LARGE, scary world that throws a lot of curveballs at you. If fast travel is too widely used...most of that is skipped over. You level in a zone and then skip over it after its no longer useful to you.
For the posters making the "I only have 3 hours to play..I want those hours to be meaningful, not spent traveling"...you are IMO missing the point of a great MMO. What you are really saying is that "I want to be able to complete a rather large task in a short amount of time". You want to be able to log on, go to the dungeon, beat the dungeon, and get your new loot...all in your 3 hour play session. I'm not saying there shouldnt be options for that type of play...but they should strive for something more.
If you want the 3 hour complete session...you will have to choose a local dungeon, or an objective that is close by. If you want to go to the dungeon off in those distant mountains...you should have to work your way through said mountains...maybe for several days...to get to that dungeon. You will have to make different goals. "today my party is going to make it to this town, then tomorrow we will make it to the lake, then day three we will arrive at the dungeon" While that might sound long and tedious...if the devs make that journey an incredible adventure unto itself...the game has just provided you with a ton more fun content.
Going on adventures in the "dark and dangerous" parts of the world should not be easy. Attempting to accomplish one goal (raiding a dungeon) should lead you to several other cool and exciting adventures along the way...at least thats my opinion.
That being said, I think there should be some things that make travel easier as you get more powerful. I LOVE the idea of mounts meaning something. Get them, upgrade them, personalize them. Have different mounts for different purposes. Traveling a long distance?? Take a mount with a lot of stamina and extra inventory slots. Going somewhere in a hurry? Take more of a "sprinter".
As far as fast travel....it has to make sense and keep with immersion. Fast travel between MAJOR cities...fine...but not insta-click. Pay a fee to travel as part of an armed caravan that can't be killed. You can get on board and go AFK for a few min an arrive safe and sound. They will take main roads, and be slower than you could go on foot...but you don't have to do any work to get there. Want to go to a smaller town, in the middle of a dangerous area?? Impossible...its too dangerous for a caravan...or at least it will be MUCH more expensive. Want to go to a dungeon....you're going on foot...caravans would never dare to travel to such a place!!
Travel NEEDS to be an important part of the game. Make it fun, make it challenging, and most of all make it rewarding. It will add more content and allow tons of content to be enjoyed more than once.
I think mounts would be best if the world was so large that mounts were absolutely needed to traverse the world. It would also be good if mounts had to be fed, could be killed, and could not be summoned or desummoned. It would make locations with stables the center hub of any area.
in my opinion portal type of traveling kills the immersion ... I like to see the world alive and watch people running around doing their thing. With mounts of some variaty of speed.and maybe a flight mount for even faster and safer with some effort gold wise and maybe not only. like when mounts were at Vanilla and tbc WoW,were you had to work your ass off to gain enough gold to buy them.
anything that involve teleports sadly makes the world seem empty dead..and thats not fun at all...its a real deal breaker for me already for GW2... Maybe 1-2 portals for the very very distant places.. other wise there is no point of making huge worlds in the first place.. so empty useless space.. not cool
Good read, I like how you broke it down to help people understand.
The only way, and I mean absolutely only way I could see a form of fast travel being viable in EQ Next would be something like a player run flight path that actually requires you to have certain skills to run a business, allowing you to hire the flight path attendants, as well as other skills to acquire the griffon or other beasts that will be doing the transporting. Perhaps even a system of taming and training before such beasts would be fit for use. These flight paths should NOT be static, but should be vendors you place dynamically (perhaps at a house or city) that allows players to pay a rate you set to use your griffon. It should also only allow a player to use it IF the griffon(s) are not already in the process of transporting other players. The shop and attendant should also be susceptible to pvp, especially if the flight path exists outside of a town.
That, I would find acceptable.
Some people and their idea of what constitutes as 'difficulty' is hilarious. But thankfully SOE understands that as you can read the OP again, the answer by SOE is there.
Long travelling time doesn't make a game difficult or challenging but tedious. How about you people give 'real' suggestions on how to make the game challenging instead of sticking to superficial things like 'slow and long traveling times' ?
As far as immersion is concerned... Skyrim lets to you zoom around the map once the location is discovered and still that world is more immersive than any MMO to this date.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
I understand you, but who sais that you have to travel ?
Have your friends make charactheres in the same area as you , and later you can make a big journey together when you have more time to play than 2 hours..
Insta travel makes game Worlds alot smaller
Says the guy that, dollars to donuts, never played an MMO before WoW.
Classic EQ travel was very challenging, immersive and fun. It would get your heart racing being half an hour away from your bind city and narrowly escaping a clan of angry orcs roaming through a zone.
At higher levels those mobs weren't an issue, but you also had portals and players capable of porting available to you. That was the proper progression, not being able to instantly travel anywhere, circumventing the dangers of the world while simultaneously making it feel trivial and small.
I want long travel times because instantaneous travel removes people from the world. Without people traveling through the world, it feels barren and lifeless. Skyrim is not an MMO.
Actually my first MMO was Anarchy Online but thanks for your asnine assumptions.
We are talking about making game challenging not tedious. Atleast get the idea of 'challenge' right first before you decided to tell devs how to make a game difficult and challenging.
Skyrim is not an MMO and yet has the most immersive world compared to any MMO regardless of instant travelling. The whole 'giving MMO world a life' factor isn't just depended upon players going on long travels through same routes for the 100th time.
Anyways, why to even argue when SOE has already replied that it is matter of preference and some people prefer fast travels. So they are not going to just remove it completely from EQnext.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
Uh, SOE, specifically Georgeson, was discussing EQ2, not EQN.
Interesting - so just because you don't define something to be difficult, it must not be!
Wrong. If you are at least even partially competent and/or literate, then you can distinctly see that the majority consensus on this subject is partial towards limited to no fast travel. You don't see people proclaiming "I want no fast travel because I like tedious and inconvenient game design!", they say it because these people find challenge and excitement in it.
I couldn't really care less what your definition of "real suggestions" are. If you want to go play a game that holds your hand with every design, there are plenty out there right now. Just because you spout that a certain design is "tedious" or "inconvenient" doesn't make it so for others. Would you also say that exclamation points and question marks are necessary for questing to not be "tedious"? How about quest helpers - since finding out things on your own is just so inconvenient and "superficial"? Maybe dungeon finder queues too?
In fact, how about scrap any sort of questing, travel, and monster killing altogether and just instantly get rewarded for clicking on an npc. That would keep players away from any "tedious" or "superficial" tasks, right?
I feel the need to reply to this.
I think there needs to be a comprise between both Casual play with quick travel....instant travel, and the good ol feeling of putting on your hiking boots and taking a trek across the map.
Here is my suggestion. Ultima Online had it down perfect. Early UO did everything right. They allowed players who had enough skill level to "Mark" a rune with a location within the world. You could use that rune to recall back to that location any time you wanted.
You would mark key locations where you travel to often. Dungeons, Guild castles, place that was quite so you could mine and chop trees in peace.
These runes also become a market. People would sell and trade these runes, and offer their services for lower levels that did not have the skill level to mark runes or never been to that location.
Now just limit the number of runes you can carry base of skill level or by character level or some other metric.
I think this is a perfect compromise, and also generates a market that connects players to each other.
No it is about redefining and changing the meaning of what is difficult and challenging content. Got nothing to do with how i feel. How many of you can actually say with a straight face that travelling for an hour from point A to be is challenging after doing its for 100th time?
The challenge should be in the activity itself for example it is not challenging if you it takes 2 hours to kill a BOSS with huge HP pool..but it is challenging if that boss has skills and tactics which makes the fight a challenge.
Rest of your post is just trying to put words into my mouth so i am going to ignore that.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
I like GW2s and Rift's method. There are portals throughout but getting from one to another is a challenge. Though I like the additinal step of removing mounts as in GW2, thus making portal to portal very hazardous to your health at later levels.
I hate "speed racing" travel. I see no point in wasting my time by showing me a creature move from one place to another.
It wasn't the voce acting that hurt STar Wars, it was the travel methods. They were slow and horrendous.
If you want to turn off most gamers, tell them it will take an hour or two on occasion to play with family and friends.
I'm not putting any words in your mouth, that is completely the basis of your logic.
Your same argument can made against virtually any game design, provided that you just make the claim that a particular design is just "tedious" and not challenging at all. Some people may find killing monsters being tedious, others may find questing to be tedious. The idea that something taking a long period of time isn't difficult is subjective.
Would a 12 hour work day be less "challenging" if it was reduced down to five minutes? I would think so. The same concept can be applied to MMO's. The reason many boss fights take so long is because it makes the encounter much more physically and mentally challenging. Although running from point A to point B isn't as physically taxing as working a real job, it still takes a considerate amount dedication and patience. And if you don't see any sort of challenge in that, then I'd say it's about time to reevaluate your logic.
I would like a mount system like Dark Age of Camelot, I don't need to own mounts but it is nice to be able to rent one to get to various points.
And yes, I enjoyed the long ass travel times of the original game. It was always exciting to be heading down the dock in Freeport only to see that boat start sailing away and HOPING that you made it in time to jump yourself onto that boat because 45 minutes...
That Guild Wars 2 login screen knocked up my wife. Must be the second coming!
I don't find longer travel time challengeing I find it a annoying time sink.
and making something as taxing as a real job, is not making it challengeing it makes it annoying I come home to play games and relax and have fun not do a second job.
I enjoy a good challenge in a game I don't enjoy, time sinks, when a boss fight is nothing but a massive hit point pool and a wash and repeat attack pattern, its not a challenge its a annoyance.
P.S. compareing work to gmaeing is silly, for most people work isn't challengeing at all, its a time sink that geet your paid, some enjoy it some don't, most don't find it challengeing. using it as a comparison to gameing makes no sence.
F2P may be the way of the future, but ya know they dont make them like they used to
Proper Grammer & spelling are extra, corrections will be LOL at.
But that is not what i am trying to do here because i am only talking about 'travel times' not other features of the games.I am actually in favor of keeping both options instead of eliminating one or the other completely.
Working for 8 to 12 hours a day where you have to overcome a lot of challenges professionaly and personally is not same as sitting on your ass all day long in front of PC clicking buttons to get from point A to B. We can agree on that right?
Time sinks are not challenging...because the whole concept of challenge is rendered pointless when you have loads of spare time to burn on gaming. So anyone who can spend 8+ hours a day playing MMOS...getting from point A to B is not a challenge but just matter of investing loads of hours into it.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney