When I come home from work and have 2 hours to invest into a game Im interested in gameplay. Travel is not gameplay.
So to all you that remain online 24/7 feel free to travel for hours on end just don't drag me along into your chores.
Applies the same to LFG spamming or trade channel auctioning. I'm fine if you find joy in all of the above and have time to waste for such activities just don't DEMAND it's like that for everyone else.
When I was playing EQ back in '99 I was working 2 jobs, so ummmm ya....also, if I travelled from BB mountains to EK, and it took me 30 mins or so, I wound up staying there for DAYS grinding xp, so it wasn't like you travelled somewhere in EQ back in the day, spent 2 minutes there and went home. Plus, the journey was a part of the fun, the exploration, the challenge. Also, if its that big a deal, roll a class that has fast travel...
honestly, and I don't mean this in a bad way, even tho it might sound like it, but I wish players like you would stick to wow type MMOs and leave the more challenging ones for those who like that type of gameplay. and yes a 30 minute trek through dangerous zones for your level is challenging and fun.
I think the general consensus (Which Georgeson also alluded to) is that some people dont like long travel sessions. They will probably meet in the middle of the road.
Just like SOE never said they think non-consensual PvP is bad game design. They just said they wouldnt do anything that is bad game design. They can simply mean there are some zones that have PvP enabled that have high value resources. And technically that is non-consensual PvP when you go into those zones
Fast Travel promotes : lazyness, solocentric attitudes, hampers social artmosphere, inhibits immersion.
I understand some people saying if they have 2 hrs to play , they say they need fast travel, but its really a self management issue.
well hate to break it to you, but alot of people out there have the same problem, but through effective time management , were able tto accomplish everything they wanted.
when i played UO, i was taking electronic engineering, graduated with good marks, and still was a feared killer on my server, with over 1000 kills of my own, in eq a epiced raid cleric, daoc , 8 mans nightly, WoW, did everything as well, EVE online? with two accounts, basically won the game as much as anyone can, mothership, billions in isk, 100,000+ sp char, 50,000 + sp alt,
i was able to do all of this, and have all this fun byu being social, making friends, lending a hand whenever i could, plating the 1.5 hrs before i went tio work in the morning, and three hrs every night AFTER my wife went to bed
and now, if EQN is what i hope it is, ill be doing the same, but with a 4 year old to worry bout as well
Fast Travel promotes : lazyness, solocentric attitudes, hampers social artmosphere, inhibits immersion.
I understand some people saying if they have 2 hrs to play , they say they need fast travel, but its really a self management issue.
well hate to break it to you, but alot of people out there have the same problem, but through effective time management , were able tto accomplish everything they wanted.
when i played UO, i was taking electronic engineering, graduated with good marks, and still was a feared killer on my server, with over 1000 kills of my own, in eq a epiced raid cleric, daoc , 8 mans nightly, WoW, did everything as well, EVE online? with two accounts, basically won the game as much as anyone can, mothership, billions in isk, 100,000+ sp char, 50,000 + sp alt,
i was able to do all of this, and have all this fun byu being social, making friends, lending a hand whenever i could, plating the 1.5 hrs before i went tio work in the morning, and three hrs every night AFTER my wife went to bed
and now, if EQN is what i hope it is, ill be doing the same, but with a 4 year old to worry bout as well
I hope people dont think im biased one way or the other, I'm not, I'd prefer whatever method, it be done well. I want a middle of the road system, to be honest, but it's a lot easier to defend the fast travel argument FROM A BUSINESS STANDPOINT
I think people never wanting flightpoints/waypoints/stables are absolutely ridiculous. People say "Gamers want slow travel" Really? The majority of gamers want slow travel? If people actually think the majority of MMO players are on this site, they are mistaken. "Dude we had a thread with 200 replies, from the same 10 people, all wanting slow travel!"
As I've said before -- Unfortunately, there are more casual gamers than hardcore gamers. That is FACT. That is why meeting in the middle of the road is the best method in my opinion -- Hardcore players will tolerate it, Casual players will tolerate it. There is nothing suggesting if EQN has slow travel it'll be a successful game. Your cousins friend who you used to play EQ1 with agreeing that he enjoys slow travel doesnt mean its a wise decision. I bet if you lined up 20 MMO players, 1 out of every 20 have heard about this site.
Just even look at these EQN forums -- I'd imagine its the same 50~ people or so posting. Its not like we're having 100,000 unique posters on probably the biggest EQN forum right now clamoring for slow travel.
Fast Travel promotes : lazyness, solocentric attitudes, hampers social artmosphere, inhibits immersion.
I understand some people saying if they have 2 hrs to play , they say they need fast travel, but its really a self management issue.
well hate to break it to you, but alot of people out there have the same problem, but through effective time management , were able tto accomplish everything they wanted.
when i played UO, i was taking electronic engineering, graduated with good marks, and still was a feared killer on my server, with over 1000 kills of my own, in eq a epiced raid cleric, daoc , 8 mans nightly, WoW, did everything as well, EVE online? with two accounts, basically won the game as much as anyone can, mothership, billions in isk, 100,000+ sp char, 50,000 + sp alt,
i was able to do all of this, and have all this fun byu being social, making friends, lending a hand whenever i could, plating the 1.5 hrs before i went tio work in the morning, and three hrs every night AFTER my wife went to bed
and now, if EQN is what i hope it is, ill be doing the same, but with a 4 year old to worry bout as well
I hope people dont think im biased one way or the other, I'm not, I'd prefer whatever method, it be done well. I want a middle of the road system, to be honest, but it's a lot easier to defend the fast travel argument FROM A BUSINESS STANDPOINT
I think people never wanting flightpoints/waypoints/stables are absolutely ridiculous. People say "Gamers want slow travel" Really? The majority of gamers want slow travel? If people actually think the majority of MMO players are on this site, they are mistaken. "Dude we had a thread with 200 replies, from the same 10 people, all wanting slow travel!"
As I've said before -- Unfortunately, there are more casual gamers than hardcore gamers. That is FACT. That is why meeting in the middle of the road is the best method in my opinion -- Hardcore players will tolerate it, Casual players will tolerate it. There is nothing suggesting if EQN has slow travel it'll be a successful game. Your cousins friend who you used to play EQ1 with agreeing that he enjoys slow travel doesnt mean its a wise decision. I bet if you lined up 20 MMO players, 1 out of every 20 have heard about this site.
Just even look at these EQN forums -- I'd imagine its the same 50~ people or so posting. Its not like we're having 100,000 unique posters on probably the biggest EQN forum right now clamoring for slow travel.
Everquest has been going on since March of 1999. That's 14 years of gamers that know Everquest in all it's forms. Also Everquest 2 has been going for almost 9 years.
If anyone interested in MMORPG's types that into most search engines, one of the first things that pops up is this site. One of the most hyped games at the moment on this site is EQ Next.
There may not be a huge amount of people posting but there are tons viewing and interested.
You are partly correct in that they don't want to alienate the WoW and WoW clone fanbase by not granting some forms of faster travel. The thing is though, EQ already had several ways to get around in the game before planes of Power. There does need to be a balance and we have to look to the Devs to strike that balance. I guarantee nobody in the sandbox community will enjoy fully game implemented fast travel systems similar to POK in EQ or all the portals in WoW or Rift or.....you name the clone...I am sure EQ devs have given players the tools to possibly make their own fast travel of sorts. Aug 2 we will know for sure.
If the game world is large enough and travel slow enough - traveling become content. Especially if the journey is riddled with obstacles and dangerous mobs.
If it took 2 hours to get from one city to the next closest city, and it was a trip that people couldn't make alone then it would be like a open world dungeon that people would traverse in groups with varying paths to the other side.
Fast Travel promotes : lazyness, solocentric attitudes, hampers social artmosphere, inhibits immersion.
I understand some people saying if they have 2 hrs to play , they say they need fast travel, but its really a self management issue.
well hate to break it to you, but alot of people out there have the same problem, but through effective time management , were able tto accomplish everything they wanted.
when i played UO, i was taking electronic engineering, graduated with good marks, and still was a feared killer on my server, with over 1000 kills of my own, in eq a epiced raid cleric, daoc , 8 mans nightly, WoW, did everything as well, EVE online? with two accounts, basically won the game as much as anyone can, mothership, billions in isk, 100,000+ sp char, 50,000 + sp alt,
i was able to do all of this, and have all this fun byu being social, making friends, lending a hand whenever i could, plating the 1.5 hrs before i went tio work in the morning, and three hrs every night AFTER my wife went to bed
and now, if EQN is what i hope it is, ill be doing the same, but with a 4 year old to worry bout as well
I hope people dont think im biased one way or the other, I'm not, I'd prefer whatever method, it be done well. I want a middle of the road system, to be honest, but it's a lot easier to defend the fast travel argument FROM A BUSINESS STANDPOINT
I think people never wanting flightpoints/waypoints/stables are absolutely ridiculous. People say "Gamers want slow travel" Really? The majority of gamers want slow travel? If people actually think the majority of MMO players are on this site, they are mistaken. "Dude we had a thread with 200 replies, from the same 10 people, all wanting slow travel!"
As I've said before -- Unfortunately, there are more casual gamers than hardcore gamers. That is FACT. That is why meeting in the middle of the road is the best method in my opinion -- Hardcore players will tolerate it, Casual players will tolerate it. There is nothing suggesting if EQN has slow travel it'll be a successful game. Your cousins friend who you used to play EQ1 with agreeing that he enjoys slow travel doesnt mean its a wise decision. I bet if you lined up 20 MMO players, 1 out of every 20 have heard about this site.
Just even look at these EQN forums -- I'd imagine its the same 50~ people or so posting. Its not like we're having 100,000 unique posters on probably the biggest EQN forum right now clamoring for slow travel.
Everquest has been going on since March of 1999. That's 14 years of gamers that know Everquest in all it's forms. Also Everquest 2 has been going for almost 9 years.
If anyone interested in MMORPG's types that into most search engines, one of the first things that pops up is this site. One of the most hyped games at the moment on this site is EQ Next.
There may not be a huge amount of people posting but there are tons viewing and interested.
You are partly correct in that they don't want to alienate the WoW and WoW clone fanbase by not granting some forms of faster travel. The thing is though, EQ already had several ways to get around in the game before planes of Power. There does need to be a balance and we have to look to the Devs to strike that balance. I guarantee nobody in the sandbox community will enjoy fully game implemented fast travel systems similar to POK in EQ or all the portals in WoW or Rift or.....you name the clone...I am sure EQ devs have given players the tools to possibly make their own fast travel of sorts. Aug 2 we will know for sure.
Your first mistake is thinking theyre targeting the EQ1/EQ2 1999 crowd. They are targeting the 2013 crowd of gamers, not the people who wear nostalgia glasses reminiscing about the old days. Georgeson said he isnt afraid of EQN killing EQ1/EQ2 because EQN is going to be such a different game and he understands some people will never quit those games. The current playerbase of EQ1/EQ2 would be considered a niche crowd, no offense, when you compare numbers to the current MMO crowd
They want the 2013 gamers. 2013 gamers (a lot) probably never played EQ1 or EQ2. Its a Call of Duty/League of Legends/World of Warcraft/etc market. They arent targeting the 1999 crowd, as that crowd isnt the most popular anymore.
Your first mistake is thinking theyre targeting the EQ1/EQ2 1999 crowd. They are targeting the 2013 crowd of gamers, not the people who wear nostalgia glasses reminiscing about the old days. Georgeson said he isnt afraid of EQN killing EQ1/EQ2 because EQN is going to be such a different game and he understands some people will never quit those games. The current playerbase of EQ1/EQ2 would be considered a niche crowd, no offense, when you compare numbers to the current MMO crowd
They want the 2013 gamers. 2013 gamers (a lot) probably never played EQ1 or EQ2. Its a Call of Duty/League of Legends/World of Warcraft/etc market. They arent targeting the 1999 crowd, as that crowd isnt the most popular anymore.
... and they are launching the promotion of this game at SOE Live to an audience largely consisting of EQ1 and EQ2 players, players they have described as "their loyalest fans" exactly why?
Make no mistake they are targeting Everquest 1&2 players past and present with this game. Will they broaden it out to take in the larger market? Of course they will but the core market they want to get and keep is those Everquest 1&2 players that subscribe and stay subscribed for years. Why? Because they know that this is the key to underwriting the cost of the game the rest is all gravy (profit).
Of course their will be elements of that market they will not carry forward into the new game, and to keep getting their money they will keep running the other two games as long as they can.
If the game world is large enough and travel slow enough - traveling become content. Especially if the journey is riddled with obstacles and dangerous mobs.
If it took 2 hours to get from one city to the next closest city, and it was a trip that people couldn't make alone then it would be like a open world dungeon that people would traverse in groups with varying paths to the other side.
That, honestly, would make me quit the game. Taking two + hours just to get to a destination sounds ridiculous and boring. How many gamers run back to back dungeons for hours on end, everyday? Very few indeed, and that's what the idea of "open world dungeon" would be like.
I think travel in EQ1 was almost perfect. The teleportation system and the run speed buffs, etc. were spot-on. However, things like having to wait 40 minutes on a boat to take you to certain zones only accessible by boat, for instance, are a big no-no.
I like ground mounts. But, I'd really rather not see much in the way of flying mounts, at all. Flying mounts typically just hurt games, from what I've seen and experienced.
EQ was the first real instant travel system, and it was a perfect medium. You could get teleports across the world, but it wasn't so widespread and too-easy that people were just bouncing all over the world like beams of light.
Add: I think every class should have some type of modern "gate to bind point" kind of ability with a cooldown(even pure melees).
Some people and their idea of what constitutes as 'difficulty' is hilarious. But thankfully SOE understands that as you can read the OP again, the answer by SOE is there.
Long travelling time doesn't make a game difficult or challenging but tedious. How about you people give 'real' suggestions on how to make the game challenging instead of sticking to superficial things like 'slow and long traveling times' ?
As far as immersion is concerned... Skyrim lets to you zoom around the map once the location is discovered and still that world is more immersive than any MMO to this date.
I agree. This was touched on a little bit in the other thread about class changing. A lot of people have a real problem understanding the difference between "A tedious second job" and "Difficult".
Grinding 10000 rats to get a level is not hard, it's just boring. Walking from one city to another, and taking 2 hours to do so, is not "hard", it's tedious.
Now don't get me wrong, I think too fast-travel warping around is a bad thing for an MMO that has a great big world, but I feel that it could be addressed in a different way. That way would be to make travel a part of the action-experience.
For example, maybe your party wants to do a Castle Mistmoore dungeon run. Well then you guys head over to a town or point of interest near the dungeon and "que up" to do the dungeon. This starts an event that's chained to your group and along the way your group not only has to fight their way across the open world to get to that dungeon, but the game's engine can spawn dynamic events along the way. Like being followed by a gang of thieves, or getting attacked by a raid of orcs. These events would eventually lead to a sort of miniboss that would be worth killing for loot.
In a system like this, you make the travel meaningful by basically making it a part of the dungeon experience. Now this may or may not be a requirement (You could always just go to the dungeon), but maybe it could be designed to give an incentive to perform this sort of travel-miniquest. Maybe the final travel event boss gives you a key to open up a secret treasure room, or a scroll to bypass a part of the dungeon. Something to make the adventure worth doing instead of just running right to the dungeon.
The point is that traveling around should be a part of the game. It should be a fun experience that isn't just a time sink.
Fast Travel promotes : lazyness, solocentric attitudes, hampers social artmosphere, inhibits immersion.
I understand some people saying if they have 2 hrs to play , they say they need fast travel, but its really a self management issue.
well hate to break it to you, but alot of people out there have the same problem, but through effective time management , were able tto accomplish everything they wanted.
when i played UO, i was taking electronic engineering, graduated with good marks, and still was a feared killer on my server, with over 1000 kills of my own, in eq a epiced raid cleric, daoc , 8 mans nightly, WoW, did everything as well, EVE online? with two accounts, basically won the game as much as anyone can, mothership, billions in isk, 100,000+ sp char, 50,000 + sp alt,
i was able to do all of this, and have all this fun byu being social, making friends, lending a hand whenever i could, plating the 1.5 hrs before i went tio work in the morning, and three hrs every night AFTER my wife went to bed
and now, if EQN is what i hope it is, ill be doing the same, but with a 4 year old to worry bout as well
I hope people dont think im biased one way or the other, I'm not, I'd prefer whatever method, it be done well. I want a middle of the road system, to be honest, but it's a lot easier to defend the fast travel argument FROM A BUSINESS STANDPOINT
I think people never wanting flightpoints/waypoints/stables are absolutely ridiculous. People say "Gamers want slow travel" Really? The majority of gamers want slow travel? If people actually think the majority of MMO players are on this site, they are mistaken. "Dude we had a thread with 200 replies, from the same 10 people, all wanting slow travel!"
As I've said before -- Unfortunately, there are more casual gamers than hardcore gamers. That is FACT. That is why meeting in the middle of the road is the best method in my opinion -- Hardcore players will tolerate it, Casual players will tolerate it. There is nothing suggesting if EQN has slow travel it'll be a successful game. Your cousins friend who you used to play EQ1 with agreeing that he enjoys slow travel doesnt mean its a wise decision. I bet if you lined up 20 MMO players, 1 out of every 20 have heard about this site.
Just even look at these EQN forums -- I'd imagine its the same 50~ people or so posting. Its not like we're having 100,000 unique posters on probably the biggest EQN forum right now clamoring for slow travel.
Everquest has been going on since March of 1999. That's 14 years of gamers that know Everquest in all it's forms. Also Everquest 2 has been going for almost 9 years.
If anyone interested in MMORPG's types that into most search engines, one of the first things that pops up is this site. One of the most hyped games at the moment on this site is EQ Next.
There may not be a huge amount of people posting but there are tons viewing and interested.
You are partly correct in that they don't want to alienate the WoW and WoW clone fanbase by not granting some forms of faster travel. The thing is though, EQ already had several ways to get around in the game before planes of Power. There does need to be a balance and we have to look to the Devs to strike that balance. I guarantee nobody in the sandbox community will enjoy fully game implemented fast travel systems similar to POK in EQ or all the portals in WoW or Rift or.....you name the clone...I am sure EQ devs have given players the tools to possibly make their own fast travel of sorts. Aug 2 we will know for sure.
Your first mistake is thinking theyre targeting the EQ1/EQ2 1999 crowd. They are targeting the 2013 crowd of gamers, not the people who wear nostalgia glasses reminiscing about the old days. Georgeson said he isnt afraid of EQN killing EQ1/EQ2 because EQN is going to be such a different game and he understands some people will never quit those games. The current playerbase of EQ1/EQ2 would be considered a niche crowd, no offense, when you compare numbers to the current MMO crowd
They want the 2013 gamers. 2013 gamers (a lot) probably never played EQ1 or EQ2. Its a Call of Duty/League of Legends/World of Warcraft/etc market. They arent targeting the 1999 crowd, as that crowd isnt the most popular anymore.
^This. I can't wait until SOE Live so we can all finally get some concrete details on this game. There is so much nonsense being spewed on these forums by old EQ players who think this game is the saving grace of the MMO world, utopia, and the second coming all rolled into one. I'm not saying that things from the original game won't be in it, but Its like they are completely ignoring that things are a lot different now for gamers than they were back in 1999 regardless of how many players have still been unable to let the old games go. I predict a lot of tears being shed once August 2nd finally gets here.
i do agree though , there is a medium , as far as traveling goes, thats ok, but sacrificing immersion and social contact for speed of travel, shortens the game , so a balance must be there, i was just thinking of aion, a min ago, and in that game , there are far too many forms of fast travel.
and ya, im not young anymore, and embrace change with the best of them, but do want a challenge, and i am among that demographic that has the money to do whatever they want , have the best gear to do it with, and shed no tear, though i do admit to a bit of flaming now and then
If the game world is large enough and travel slow enough - traveling become content. Especially if the journey is riddled with obstacles and dangerous mobs.
If it took 2 hours to get from one city to the next closest city, and it was a trip that people couldn't make alone then it would be like a open world dungeon that people would traverse in groups with varying paths to the other side.
That, honestly, would make me quit the game. Taking two + hours just to get to a destination sounds ridiculous and boring. How many gamers run back to back dungeons for hours on end, everyday? Very few indeed, and that's what the idea of "open world dungeon" would be like.
Yes, that would be ridiculous. Though, if one of these developers actually finds a way to harness travel distance/time and convert it to a fun experience, they'd have a winner on their hands.
If travel were actually enjoyable and made people want to run around from place to place, that would be golden. But, until they figure out how to make world travel actually intriguing enough that there's a good enough reason to spend time doing it, no one wants to spend a long period of time just getting to the next city.
I wish these developers would get a little more creative this generation, and make the worlds more dynamic and alive, so that you'd actually want to journey from one place to the next, because of the cool things/monsters/events/dynamic places you might see. Here's hoping the new wave of games has more advanced and dynamic systems and NPC/world interaction.
My favorite travel system ever was the one found in Ultima Online. Being able to mark runes, put them in a runebook and then recall back to that exact spot was nothing less than amazing. It was the perfect way to mark any point of interest whether it was a dungeon, house, spawn camp or vendor that you liked to fast travel back to later.
^This. I can't wait until SOE Live so we can all finally get some concrete details on this game. There is so much nonsense being spewed on these forums by old EQ players who think this game is the saving grace of the MMO world, utopia, and the second coming all rolled into one. I'm not saying that things from the original game won't be in it, but Its like they are completely ignoring that things are a lot different now for gamers than they were back in 1999 regardless of how many players have still been unable to let the old games go. I predict a lot of tears being shed once August 2nd finally gets here.
I agree, but only to an extent. I think EQN is going to appeal to a lot of MMORPG players who have been craving a huge open world with lots of fun things to do. Something that breaks away from the Themepark style MMOs.
I do however agree that there will be some tears on Aug 2nd. A lot of older MMO veterans are thinking that EQN is going to be some hard core, 100% sandbox, FFA PVP, full loot ganking, Korean exp grind fest, 2nd job, niche wonderbox. They are only setting themselves up for disappointment.
I have been playing MMORPGs and Muds since the mid 90s, and I might recall LoK, Darkness Falls, UO and EQ with fond memories, but this is 2013, and I'm going to be realistic with my expectations for EQN.
I'm sure EQN will be a great world to play in regardless of where they go with it though. Anything has to be better than what we've been getting lol.
I wish these developers would get a little more creative this generation, and make the worlds more dynamic and alive, so that you'd actually want to journey from one place to the next, because of the cool things/monsters/events/dynamic places you might see. Here's hoping the new wave of games has more advanced and dynamic systems and NPC/world interaction.
LOL, some of us designers are always looking to innovate and try new things, but you gotta remember that every project has a time limit and a budget, and going out of scope can be disastrous.
We do try and think outside the box though. Let me know what you thought of my previous post about combining dungeons and open world travel into a single experience, making both worth the time and effort and *fun*.
If the game world is large enough and travel slow enough - traveling become content. Especially if the journey is riddled with obstacles and dangerous mobs.
If it took 2 hours to get from one city to the next closest city, and it was a trip that people couldn't make alone then it would be like a open world dungeon that people would traverse in groups with varying paths to the other side.
That, honestly, would make me quit the game. Taking two + hours just to get to a destination sounds ridiculous and boring. How many gamers run back to back dungeons for hours on end, everyday? Very few indeed, and that's what the idea of "open world dungeon" would be like.
Yes, that would be ridiculous. Though, if one of these developers actually finds a way to harness travel distance/time and convert it to a fun experience, they'd have a winner on their hands.
If travel were actually enjoyable and made people want to run around from place to place, that would be golden. But, until they figure out how to make world travel actually intriguing enough that there's a good enough reason to spend time doing it, no one wants to spend a long period of time just getting to the next city.
I wish these developers would get a little more creative this generation, and make the worlds more dynamic and alive, so that you'd actually want to journey from one place to the next, because of the cool things/monsters/events/dynamic places you might see. Here's hoping the new wave of games has more advanced and dynamic systems and NPC/world interaction.
I agree, if they were able to make it fun then it wouldn't be too bad. As I mentioned in a previous post, I actually don't mind either form of travel, but why can't there be a happy medium? Many on this thread act like it has to be all of one way.
I wish these developers would get a little more creative this generation, and make the worlds more dynamic and alive, so that you'd actually want to journey from one place to the next, because of the cool things/monsters/events/dynamic places you might see. Here's hoping the new wave of games has more advanced and dynamic systems and NPC/world interaction.
LOL, some of us designers are always looking to innovate and try new things, but you gotta remember that every project has a time limit and a budget, and going out of scope can be disastrous.
We do try and think outside the box though. Let me know what you thought of my post above about combining dungeons and open world travel into a single experience, making both worth the time and effort and *fun*.
I am pretty much agnostic on travel/fast travel, I guess I prefer there to be little fast travel. I expect more to be added to any game over time, I do not like this but have come to expect it.
@Gallus85 Love your suggestion sounds great to me. This is exactly the sort of thing that should be happening with "dynamic content" not Rifts, not FATES (or whatever the FFXIV thingy is) but dynamic content based on your group and what it is doing.
Also there should be a different chain of events on the way back, after all you got some loot, took some damage and are therefore more attractive to the MOBs.
^This. I can't wait until SOE Live so we can all finally get some concrete details on this game. There is so much nonsense being spewed on these forums by old EQ players who think this game is the saving grace of the MMO world, utopia, and the second coming all rolled into one. I'm not saying that things from the original game won't be in it, but Its like they are completely ignoring that things are a lot different now for gamers than they were back in 1999 regardless of how many players have still been unable to let the old games go. I predict a lot of tears being shed once August 2nd finally gets here.
I agree, but only to an extent. I think EQN is going to appeal to a lot of MMORPG players who have been craving a huge open world with lots of fun things to do. Something that breaks away from the Themepark style MMOs.
I do however agree that there will be some tears on Aug 2nd. A lot of older MMO veterans are thinking that EQN is going to be some hard core, 100% sandbox, FFA PVP, full loot ganking, Korean exp grind fest, 2nd job, niche wonderbox. They are only setting themselves up for disappointment.
I have been playing MMORPGs and Muds since the mid 90s, and I might recall LoK, Darkness Falls, UO and EQ with fond memories, but this is 2013, and I'm going to be realistic with my expectations for EQN.
I'm sure EQN will be a great world to play in regardless of where they go with it though. Anything has to be better than what we've been getting lol.
I think it will appeal also, and that there will be something for everyone. But I have seen some really crazy posts on this board coming from players giving their ideas on what they expect the game will have based on the devs obscure messages.
I will give the game a chance regardless because I like trying out new things, but I will be going into the game with my eyes wide open, not expecting anything so anything added to the game will be a surprise for me.
I will give the game a chance regardless because I like trying out new things, but I will be going into the game with my eyes wide open, not expecting anything so anything added to the game will be a surprise for me.
I agree. That's the way I'm looking at EQN. I think it's going to be great, but I'm not going to build it up in my mind that it's going to be any one specific way. I like both PVE and PVP, and can enjoy a game for what it has, instead of hating it for what it doesn't.
I will be disappointed if they have fast travel in the same manner as the fast travel in GW2.
I enjoyed the travel in EQ1, it made the world feel big.
In GW2, the cost for the portal travel is a joke, it's so low it doesn't even make it hard to decide to use it or not, you will always use it. It makes the world feel very very small.
I would prefer they have boats ala EQ1, wizard and druid travel.
Insta travel - no matter how large and seamless your world is, makes the world feel small.
-Briz
I agree...the travel is a part of the adventure, too many ista travels ruin the feeling of exploration and make the world too small.
What is stopping you from traveling even if there are fast travel mechanics?
I already know the answer. "I dont want the temptation/I want people to play the same way I play."
It always comes down to "I want others to enjoy the game how I do" a lot of people are greedy consumers. Some people only have a few hours to kill. They dont want to spend 3/4 of it traveling, and the other 1/4 of their free time drinking after every single mob/actual gameplay.
Are you going to say "If they only can play 3 hours a day they shouldnt play at all?" That isnt a good marketing strategy for SOE when they have said their future is relying on EQN being a successful game.
What is a common trend for 3 of the biggest multi player games in the world right now? Call of Duty, League of Legends, World of Warcaft. Have an hour or two to kill? You can with those games. You can also play those games for 12 hours and benefit more than someone who plays for 2.
And even look at the growing sensation of cell phone games. On a break? Play your cell phone game. Wanna sit on the couch/in a comfy chair? Play your cell phone game.
I don't see how 3 hours is only 3 hours. 3 hours of playing is a LOT.
Personally I would love to see them grow some balls and take it back to the days of EQ1. Fast travel through player spells DRU/WIZ required for fast travel otherwise ground mount/boat ports from continent to continent. Current forms of travel are part of the problem with the current MMO scene.
Player ports make us interact with each other. We need more things that make us communicate and meet new people not less. And it seems realistic, just having a guy at every town who can TP you does not fit the EQ lore at all.
If it's anything like they size of PS2 you will NEED fast travel in some form, or it will literally take all day to walk to where your going. Hopefully in a limited way like PS2.
As for flying mounts, I hope they never put them in game because that was one of the biggest mistakes in wow. Sadly they probably will have them because the engine allows for it
I will give the game a chance regardless because I like trying out new things, but I will be going into the game with my eyes wide open, not expecting anything so anything added to the game will be a surprise for me.
I agree. That's the way I'm looking at EQN. I think it's going to be great, but I'm not going to build it up in my mind that it's going to be any one specific way. I like both PVE and PVP, and can enjoy a game for what it has, instead of hating it for what it doesn't.
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When I was playing EQ back in '99 I was working 2 jobs, so ummmm ya....also, if I travelled from BB mountains to EK, and it took me 30 mins or so, I wound up staying there for DAYS grinding xp, so it wasn't like you travelled somewhere in EQ back in the day, spent 2 minutes there and went home. Plus, the journey was a part of the fun, the exploration, the challenge. Also, if its that big a deal, roll a class that has fast travel...
honestly, and I don't mean this in a bad way, even tho it might sound like it, but I wish players like you would stick to wow type MMOs and leave the more challenging ones for those who like that type of gameplay. and yes a 30 minute trek through dangerous zones for your level is challenging and fun.
I think the general consensus (Which Georgeson also alluded to) is that some people dont like long travel sessions. They will probably meet in the middle of the road.
Just like SOE never said they think non-consensual PvP is bad game design. They just said they wouldnt do anything that is bad game design. They can simply mean there are some zones that have PvP enabled that have high value resources. And technically that is non-consensual PvP when you go into those zones
Fast Travel promotes : lazyness, solocentric attitudes, hampers social artmosphere, inhibits immersion.
I understand some people saying if they have 2 hrs to play , they say they need fast travel, but its really a self management issue.
well hate to break it to you, but alot of people out there have the same problem, but through effective time management , were able tto accomplish everything they wanted.
when i played UO, i was taking electronic engineering, graduated with good marks, and still was a feared killer on my server, with over 1000 kills of my own, in eq a epiced raid cleric, daoc , 8 mans nightly, WoW, did everything as well, EVE online? with two accounts, basically won the game as much as anyone can, mothership, billions in isk, 100,000+ sp char, 50,000 + sp alt,
i was able to do all of this, and have all this fun byu being social, making friends, lending a hand whenever i could, plating the 1.5 hrs before i went tio work in the morning, and three hrs every night AFTER my wife went to bed
and now, if EQN is what i hope it is, ill be doing the same, but with a 4 year old to worry bout as well
over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting...
I hope people dont think im biased one way or the other, I'm not, I'd prefer whatever method, it be done well. I want a middle of the road system, to be honest, but it's a lot easier to defend the fast travel argument FROM A BUSINESS STANDPOINT
I think people never wanting flightpoints/waypoints/stables are absolutely ridiculous. People say "Gamers want slow travel" Really? The majority of gamers want slow travel? If people actually think the majority of MMO players are on this site, they are mistaken. "Dude we had a thread with 200 replies, from the same 10 people, all wanting slow travel!"
As I've said before -- Unfortunately, there are more casual gamers than hardcore gamers. That is FACT. That is why meeting in the middle of the road is the best method in my opinion -- Hardcore players will tolerate it, Casual players will tolerate it. There is nothing suggesting if EQN has slow travel it'll be a successful game. Your cousins friend who you used to play EQ1 with agreeing that he enjoys slow travel doesnt mean its a wise decision. I bet if you lined up 20 MMO players, 1 out of every 20 have heard about this site.
Just even look at these EQN forums -- I'd imagine its the same 50~ people or so posting. Its not like we're having 100,000 unique posters on probably the biggest EQN forum right now clamoring for slow travel.
Everquest has been going on since March of 1999. That's 14 years of gamers that know Everquest in all it's forms. Also Everquest 2 has been going for almost 9 years.
If anyone interested in MMORPG's types that into most search engines, one of the first things that pops up is this site. One of the most hyped games at the moment on this site is EQ Next.
There may not be a huge amount of people posting but there are tons viewing and interested.
You are partly correct in that they don't want to alienate the WoW and WoW clone fanbase by not granting some forms of faster travel. The thing is though, EQ already had several ways to get around in the game before planes of Power. There does need to be a balance and we have to look to the Devs to strike that balance. I guarantee nobody in the sandbox community will enjoy fully game implemented fast travel systems similar to POK in EQ or all the portals in WoW or Rift or.....you name the clone...I am sure EQ devs have given players the tools to possibly make their own fast travel of sorts. Aug 2 we will know for sure.
If the game world is large enough and travel slow enough - traveling become content. Especially if the journey is riddled with obstacles and dangerous mobs.
If it took 2 hours to get from one city to the next closest city, and it was a trip that people couldn't make alone then it would be like a open world dungeon that people would traverse in groups with varying paths to the other side.
Your first mistake is thinking theyre targeting the EQ1/EQ2 1999 crowd. They are targeting the 2013 crowd of gamers, not the people who wear nostalgia glasses reminiscing about the old days. Georgeson said he isnt afraid of EQN killing EQ1/EQ2 because EQN is going to be such a different game and he understands some people will never quit those games. The current playerbase of EQ1/EQ2 would be considered a niche crowd, no offense, when you compare numbers to the current MMO crowd
They want the 2013 gamers. 2013 gamers (a lot) probably never played EQ1 or EQ2. Its a Call of Duty/League of Legends/World of Warcraft/etc market. They arent targeting the 1999 crowd, as that crowd isnt the most popular anymore.
... and they are launching the promotion of this game at SOE Live to an audience largely consisting of EQ1 and EQ2 players, players they have described as "their loyalest fans" exactly why?
Make no mistake they are targeting Everquest 1&2 players past and present with this game. Will they broaden it out to take in the larger market? Of course they will but the core market they want to get and keep is those Everquest 1&2 players that subscribe and stay subscribed for years. Why? Because they know that this is the key to underwriting the cost of the game the rest is all gravy (profit).
Of course their will be elements of that market they will not carry forward into the new game, and to keep getting their money they will keep running the other two games as long as they can.
That, honestly, would make me quit the game. Taking two + hours just to get to a destination sounds ridiculous and boring. How many gamers run back to back dungeons for hours on end, everyday? Very few indeed, and that's what the idea of "open world dungeon" would be like.
I think travel in EQ1 was almost perfect. The teleportation system and the run speed buffs, etc. were spot-on. However, things like having to wait 40 minutes on a boat to take you to certain zones only accessible by boat, for instance, are a big no-no.
I like ground mounts. But, I'd really rather not see much in the way of flying mounts, at all. Flying mounts typically just hurt games, from what I've seen and experienced.
EQ was the first real instant travel system, and it was a perfect medium. You could get teleports across the world, but it wasn't so widespread and too-easy that people were just bouncing all over the world like beams of light.
Add: I think every class should have some type of modern "gate to bind point" kind of ability with a cooldown(even pure melees).
I agree. This was touched on a little bit in the other thread about class changing. A lot of people have a real problem understanding the difference between "A tedious second job" and "Difficult".
Grinding 10000 rats to get a level is not hard, it's just boring. Walking from one city to another, and taking 2 hours to do so, is not "hard", it's tedious.
Now don't get me wrong, I think too fast-travel warping around is a bad thing for an MMO that has a great big world, but I feel that it could be addressed in a different way. That way would be to make travel a part of the action-experience.
For example, maybe your party wants to do a Castle Mistmoore dungeon run. Well then you guys head over to a town or point of interest near the dungeon and "que up" to do the dungeon. This starts an event that's chained to your group and along the way your group not only has to fight their way across the open world to get to that dungeon, but the game's engine can spawn dynamic events along the way. Like being followed by a gang of thieves, or getting attacked by a raid of orcs. These events would eventually lead to a sort of miniboss that would be worth killing for loot.
In a system like this, you make the travel meaningful by basically making it a part of the dungeon experience. Now this may or may not be a requirement (You could always just go to the dungeon), but maybe it could be designed to give an incentive to perform this sort of travel-miniquest. Maybe the final travel event boss gives you a key to open up a secret treasure room, or a scroll to bypass a part of the dungeon. Something to make the adventure worth doing instead of just running right to the dungeon.
The point is that traveling around should be a part of the game. It should be a fun experience that isn't just a time sink.
Killing 1000 rats isn't hard.
Holding W for 30 minutes isn't hard.
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^This. I can't wait until SOE Live so we can all finally get some concrete details on this game. There is so much nonsense being spewed on these forums by old EQ players who think this game is the saving grace of the MMO world, utopia, and the second coming all rolled into one. I'm not saying that things from the original game won't be in it, but Its like they are completely ignoring that things are a lot different now for gamers than they were back in 1999 regardless of how many players have still been unable to let the old games go. I predict a lot of tears being shed once August 2nd finally gets here.
i do agree though , there is a medium , as far as traveling goes, thats ok, but sacrificing immersion and social contact for speed of travel, shortens the game , so a balance must be there, i was just thinking of aion, a min ago, and in that game , there are far too many forms of fast travel.
and ya, im not young anymore, and embrace change with the best of them, but do want a challenge, and i am among that demographic that has the money to do whatever they want , have the best gear to do it with, and shed no tear, though i do admit to a bit of flaming now and then
over 20 years of mmorpg's and counting...
Yes, that would be ridiculous. Though, if one of these developers actually finds a way to harness travel distance/time and convert it to a fun experience, they'd have a winner on their hands.
If travel were actually enjoyable and made people want to run around from place to place, that would be golden. But, until they figure out how to make world travel actually intriguing enough that there's a good enough reason to spend time doing it, no one wants to spend a long period of time just getting to the next city.
I wish these developers would get a little more creative this generation, and make the worlds more dynamic and alive, so that you'd actually want to journey from one place to the next, because of the cool things/monsters/events/dynamic places you might see. Here's hoping the new wave of games has more advanced and dynamic systems and NPC/world interaction.
My favorite travel system ever was the one found in Ultima Online. Being able to mark runes, put them in a runebook and then recall back to that exact spot was nothing less than amazing. It was the perfect way to mark any point of interest whether it was a dungeon, house, spawn camp or vendor that you liked to fast travel back to later.
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I agree, but only to an extent. I think EQN is going to appeal to a lot of MMORPG players who have been craving a huge open world with lots of fun things to do. Something that breaks away from the Themepark style MMOs.
I do however agree that there will be some tears on Aug 2nd. A lot of older MMO veterans are thinking that EQN is going to be some hard core, 100% sandbox, FFA PVP, full loot ganking, Korean exp grind fest, 2nd job, niche wonderbox. They are only setting themselves up for disappointment.
I have been playing MMORPGs and Muds since the mid 90s, and I might recall LoK, Darkness Falls, UO and EQ with fond memories, but this is 2013, and I'm going to be realistic with my expectations for EQN.
I'm sure EQN will be a great world to play in regardless of where they go with it though. Anything has to be better than what we've been getting lol.
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LOL, some of us designers are always looking to innovate and try new things, but you gotta remember that every project has a time limit and a budget, and going out of scope can be disastrous.
We do try and think outside the box though. Let me know what you thought of my previous post about combining dungeons and open world travel into a single experience, making both worth the time and effort and *fun*.
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I agree, if they were able to make it fun then it wouldn't be too bad. As I mentioned in a previous post, I actually don't mind either form of travel, but why can't there be a happy medium? Many on this thread act like it has to be all of one way.
I am pretty much agnostic on travel/fast travel, I guess I prefer there to be little fast travel. I expect more to be added to any game over time, I do not like this but have come to expect it.
@Gallus85 Love your suggestion sounds great to me. This is exactly the sort of thing that should be happening with "dynamic content" not Rifts, not FATES (or whatever the FFXIV thingy is) but dynamic content based on your group and what it is doing.
Also there should be a different chain of events on the way back, after all you got some loot, took some damage and are therefore more attractive to the MOBs.
I think it will appeal also, and that there will be something for everyone. But I have seen some really crazy posts on this board coming from players giving their ideas on what they expect the game will have based on the devs obscure messages.
I will give the game a chance regardless because I like trying out new things, but I will be going into the game with my eyes wide open, not expecting anything so anything added to the game will be a surprise for me.
I agree. That's the way I'm looking at EQN. I think it's going to be great, but I'm not going to build it up in my mind that it's going to be any one specific way. I like both PVE and PVP, and can enjoy a game for what it has, instead of hating it for what it doesn't.
Legends of Kesmai, UO, EQ, AO, DAoC, AC, SB, RO, SWG, EVE, EQ2, CoH, GW, VG:SOH, WAR, Aion, DF, CO, MO, DN, Tera, SWTOR, RO2, DP, GW2, PS2, BnS, NW, FF:XIV, ESO, EQ:NL
I don't see how 3 hours is only 3 hours. 3 hours of playing is a LOT.
Personally I would love to see them grow some balls and take it back to the days of EQ1. Fast travel through player spells DRU/WIZ required for fast travel otherwise ground mount/boat ports from continent to continent. Current forms of travel are part of the problem with the current MMO scene.
Player ports make us interact with each other. We need more things that make us communicate and meet new people not less. And it seems realistic, just having a guy at every town who can TP you does not fit the EQ lore at all.
If it's anything like they size of PS2 you will NEED fast travel in some form, or it will literally take all day to walk to where your going. Hopefully in a limited way like PS2.
As for flying mounts, I hope they never put them in game because that was one of the biggest mistakes in wow. Sadly they probably will have them because the engine allows for it
I couldn't have said it better myself.