As another poster is pointing out, A and For are different things.
As in "I chase women for sport". and "I play a sport, rugby."
I LOVES me some semantics.
Unfortunately, that is all your argument is, fighting over semantics. That and your opinion of what constitutes a 'sport' and whether the government is entitled to group esport with sports like the NFL, NBL etc. No problem here with either. In this I am being a good 'sport'.
Maybe someone will start a petition and try to reverse this decision, but considering how benign it is, I don't see any politic backlash.
Semantics is the MEANING OF WORDS, not opinion.
And the meaning of words is the opinion on what sounds relate to what notions, objects, animals, people, etc. Bend it more please to prove a point and I can start amusing myself showing you how much semantics has changed just for one word.
Originally posted by Four0Six
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by Four0Six
Originally posted by Dihoru
Originally posted by Four0Six
Originally posted by lizardbones
Originally posted by Four0Six
Originally posted by whisperwynd
Originally posted by Four0SixMy issue is with the govt. placing the same value on e-sports as NBA, NFL, MLS, FIFA, World Cup Rugby, yadda yadda.
What issue? It's to their benefit financially. Do you think they care who uses which definition or social comparison? The visa players can now ask for is for groups, making the transition into the US for these events easier...at a slightly higher price.
What issue: Pro-gaming =/= sports...thought I had been clear on my position.
Did you just use a "pay to win" argument concerning obtaining visas? US government as a cash shop?
Maybe you should support your point of view with more than just, "I said so".
There are several definitions of sports, and playing video games can fall under nearly all of those definitions.
* It requires the physical participation of the participants. * It requires some minimal level of physical skill to be competitive. * It generally requires dexterity and hand eye coordination to be competitive. * Events have rules, and have judges to determine winners.
The only definition that would prevent e-Sports from being a Sport is requiring Athleticism, but that isn't a universal or even a common requirement.
As another poster is pointing out, A and For are different things.
As in "I chase women for sport". and "I play the sport rugby."
I LOVES me some semantics.
Well then you and said poster should try doing a Starcraft 2 pro-level training regiment from now until lets say the winter Dreamhack and see how well you'll be playing Starcraft 2 for sport afterwards .
Hard does not a sport make, if you want you can try to do the financial statements for the non-profit mental health organization my wife accounts for. I guarantee that is hard, but she doesn't think of it as sport.
Let me know when she has to stop doing it because it's causing health issues (I used to be a Starcraft 1 semi-pro and I burned out my hand so yeah tell me again how you could play a game "for sport" under those conditions).
Also the dimwitted perception that this has anything to do with politics is amusing... if this decision was politically motivated (IE $$$) it might've stood some ground but seeing as how this is the government just stating "we now treat x as sportsmen" you'll excuse me if I don't see the political angle (if new laws were enacted yes, if the supreme court was involved, yes, if the government just says "yo guys, you know those people you always considered jokes? well now they'll be laughing back too", no)
You have the same injury many of the data entry clerks my wife manages. Medical billing is sport too?
Toss me another will ya, I can do this all day.
Did not know you could get hairline fractures from data entry, good to know.
Lol.. this thread... I am beginning to suspect most of the people who say "lol it ain't a sport" couldn't even hack it as a semi-pro in those games... and the rest are probably ...well something akin to this guy:
1.) Mashing Keys isn't physical activity when the term is taken in context and thus this stuff isn't a sport, they're games that fat nerdy kids or scrawny geeky kids attache too much important too.
2.) I am too lazy to post a pic, but I am starting to believe the people that want this to be a sport look like Erkel if I were going to apply your rubric.
There is no such thing as an esport because MASHING KEYS ISN"T PHYSICAL ACTIVITY OR YOUr doctor would tell you it's good cardio, jesus...........
Oh but you are wrong! All the tense gaming action and cursing at the other team can get you neck, back, and vocal cord strains. Your are getting an adrenaline rush and increased heart rate. It even induces sweating!! Has to be a sport.
Hard does not a sport make, if you want you can try to do the financial statements for the non-profit mental health organization my wife accounts for. I guarantee that is hard, but she doesn't think of it as sport.
If your insinuating that i have never had marathon gaming runs your mistaking sir. Startcraft 2 withstanding. It still does not make it a "sport"
You can argue till a Pro gamer trains till the winter Dreamhack or whatever the hell you said. It will not change anything.
e-sports are NOT SPORTS. Sorry.
Marathon gaming session? lol... try having a special diet, training (not gaming, training) for 6-12 hours a day with a skilled team of players, spend months doing nothing else but this (school may fit in it may not depends to what level you're aiming at).
Now kindly remove foot from mouth and deal with reality, your own government said it's a sport and quite a few other countries consider them sports.
How about i take my foot out of my mouth and plant it in your ass. Do you think i give a rats ass about someones "gaming training"? Please. How pathetic. A Special diet? of what Strawberry Yoohoo and Taco Bell? Now with that said, im not saying their not good at what they do. But to consider it a sport is retarded.
My own government said it was a sport to get more money. Has nothing to do with them thinking this is a real sport and everything to do with cash.
If chess, darts, poker, snooker and pool to name a few are concidered sports, wich they are then gaming is a sport as well.
Its just a shame that the US goverment decided to show some interest in it.
For obvious reasons other people already mentioned.
Some fat nerd playing a video game, you're right i can see how that is a sport. Is typing a sport too because it involves pushing buttons? Just because you are competing against someone else doesn't mean it's a sport...what about drinking contests and hot dog eating, are they sports too?
Originally posted by siagrim *sigh* all these people sitting under the misconception that "sport" entails physical fitness. a sport is something done competitively for fun or for gain.
*sigh* these people who don't know the meaning of words.
In fact a sport is a physical game. So yes, it 100% entails physical ability when the term sport if used which is why video games, chess, and poker are not sports even though they all have top level competitions of extreme skill.
Originally posted by Four0SixMy issue is with the govt. placing the same value on e-sports as NBA, NFL, MLS, FIFA, World Cup Rugby, yadda yadda.
What issue? It's to their benefit financially. Do you think they care who uses which definition or social comparison? The visa players can now ask for is for groups, making the transition into the US for these events easier...at a slightly higher price.
What issue: Pro-gaming =/= sports...thought I had been clear on my position.
Did you just use a "pay to win" argument concerning obtaining visas? US government as a cash shop?
Maybe you should support your point of view with more than just, "I said so".
There are several definitions of sports, and playing video games can fall under nearly all of those definitions.
* It requires the physical participation of the participants. * It requires some minimal level of physical skill to be competitive. * It generally requires dexterity and hand eye coordination to be competitive. * Events have rules, and have judges to determine winners.
The only definition that would prevent e-Sports from being a Sport is requiring Athleticism, but that isn't a universal or even a common requirement.
As another poster is pointing out, A and For are different things.
As in "I chase women for sport". and "I play the sport rugby."
I LOVES me some semantics.
Well then you and said poster should try doing a Starcraft 2 pro-level training regiment from now until lets say the winter Dreamhack and see how well you'll be playing Starcraft 2 for sport afterwards .
Hard does not a sport make, if you want you can try to do the financial statements for the non-profit mental health organization my wife accounts for. I guarantee that is hard, but she doesn't think of it as sport.
If your insinuating that i have never had marathon gaming runs your mistaking sir. Startcraft 2 withstanding. It still does not make it a "sport"
You can argue till a Pro gamer trains till the winter Dreamhack or whatever the hell you said. It will not change anything.
e-sports are NOT SPORTS. Sorry.
Marathon gaming session? lol... try having a special diet, training (not gaming, training) for 6-12 hours a day with a skilled team of players, spend months doing nothing else but this (school may fit in it may not depends to what level you're aiming at).
Now kindly remove foot from mouth and deal with reality, your own government said it's a sport and quite a few other countries consider them sports.
How about i take my foot out of my mouth and plant it in your ass. Do you think i give a rats ass about someones "gaming training"? Please. How pathetic. A Special diet? of what Strawberry Yoohoo and Taco Bell? Now with that said, im not saying their not good at what they do. But to consider it a sport is retarded.
My own government said it was a sport to get more money. Has nothing to do with them thinking this is a real sport and everything to do with cash.
Physical threats ? You just proved my point about how narrow minded you are. Enjoy your shallow existence.
Lol.. this thread... I am beginning to suspect most of the people who say "lol it ain't a sport" couldn't even hack it as a semi-pro in those games... and the rest are probably ...well something akin to this guy:
1.) Mashing Keys isn't physical activity when the term is taken in context and thus this stuff isn't a sport, they're games that fat nerdy kids or scrawny geeky kids attache too much important too.
2.) I am too lazy to post a pic, but I am starting to believe the people that want this to be a sport look like Erkel if I were going to apply your rubric.
There is no such thing as an esport because MASHING KEYS ISN"T PHYSICAL ACTIVITY OR YOUr doctor would tell you it's good cardio, jesus...........
Oh but you are wrong! All the tense gaming action and cursing at the other team can get you neck, back, and vocal cord strains. Your are getting an adrenaline rush and increased heart rate. It even induces sweating!! Has to be a sport.
LOL
That also sounds like alot of marriages I know. Add to that the dodgeball reflexes in avoiding plates and stuff and you got yourself some hardcore sports action right there.
As another poster is pointing out, A and For are different things.
As in "I chase women for sport". and "I play a sport, rugby."
I LOVES me some semantics.
Unfortunately, that is all your argument is, fighting over semantics. That and your opinion of what constitutes a 'sport' and whether the government is entitled to group esport with sports like the NFL, NBL etc. No problem here with either. In this I am being a good 'sport'.
Maybe someone will start a petition and try to reverse this decision, but considering how benign it is, I don't see any politic backlash.
Semantics is the MEANING OF WORDS, not opinion.
And the meaning of words is the opinion on what sounds relate to what notions, objects, animals, people, etc. Bend it more please to prove a point and I can start amusing myself showing you how much semantics has changed just for one word.
In this case the "semantics" have to do with 1 or 2 of the definitions you posted earlier for sport. You are the one trying to twist those definitions into 1 to justify your position.
Pretty much all of the modern sports started out as little more then past-time activities. (or in the case of Nascar outrunning the police.) So i am glad to see that e-sport is moving in to the light as a "real" sport. This will enable some serious development of the sport and that can only be a good thing.
I give this two thumbs up.
Good work with the quotes around real.
The sarcasm is strong with you.
Well i had a problem ti define what a real sport is so i decided to hedge my bet.
After all both chess and snowboarding are called sports from time to time. But my main point was that i fully support giving the e-sport stars the same rights as chess players and snowboarders.
After all E-sport on a Pro level takes the exact same things as "real" sport.
also to the people that keep insisting that sport is a physical activity, please at least look up the word before you make yourself look stupid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport
read the whole thing, not just the first few words
As another poster is pointing out, A and For are different things.
As in "I chase women for sport". and "I play a sport, rugby."
I LOVES me some semantics.
Unfortunately, that is all your argument is, fighting over semantics. That and your opinion of what constitutes a 'sport' and whether the government is entitled to group esport with sports like the NFL, NBL etc. No problem here with either. In this I am being a good 'sport'.
Maybe someone will start a petition and try to reverse this decision, but considering how benign it is, I don't see any politic backlash.
Semantics is the MEANING OF WORDS, not opinion.
And the meaning of words is the opinion on what sounds relate to what notions, objects, animals, people, etc. Bend it more please to prove a point and I can start amusing myself showing you how much semantics has changed just for one word.
In this case the "semantics" have to do with 1 or 2 of the definitions you posted earlier for sport. You are the one trying to twist those definitions into 1 to justify your position.
The definitions for what constitutes a sport were posted earlier in the thread, keep trying though, you're almost at the point of contradicting yourself.
Let me know when she has to stop doing it because it's causing health issues (I used to be a Starcraft 1 semi-pro and I burned out my hand so yeah tell me again how you could play a game "for sport" under those conditions).
Also the dimwitted perception that this has anything to do with politics is amusing... if this decision was politically motivated (IE $$$) it might've stood some ground but seeing as how this is the government just stating "we now treat x as sportsmen" you'll excuse me if I don't see the political angle (if new laws were enacted yes, if the supreme court was involved, yes, if the government just says "yo guys, you know those people you always considered jokes? well now they'll be laughing back too", no)
Now its starting to come into frame why you're so pro e-sports. You burned out your hand playing semi pro starcraft1? LOL! Sorry it took me longer to type that out do to my laughing my ass off.
Originally posted by Four0SixMy issue is with the govt. placing the same value on e-sports as NBA, NFL, MLS, FIFA, World Cup Rugby, yadda yadda.
What issue? It's to their benefit financially. Do you think they care who uses which definition or social comparison? The visa players can now ask for is for groups, making the transition into the US for these events easier...at a slightly higher price.
What issue: Pro-gaming =/= sports...thought I had been clear on my position.
Did you just use a "pay to win" argument concerning obtaining visas? US government as a cash shop?
Maybe you should support your point of view with more than just, "I said so".
There are several definitions of sports, and playing video games can fall under nearly all of those definitions.
* It requires the physical participation of the participants. * It requires some minimal level of physical skill to be competitive. * It generally requires dexterity and hand eye coordination to be competitive. * Events have rules, and have judges to determine winners.
The only definition that would prevent e-Sports from being a Sport is requiring Athleticism, but that isn't a universal or even a common requirement.
As another poster is pointing out, A and For are different things.
As in "I chase women for sport". and "I play the sport rugby."
I LOVES me some semantics.
Well then you and said poster should try doing a Starcraft 2 pro-level training regiment from now until lets say the winter Dreamhack and see how well you'll be playing Starcraft 2 for sport afterwards .
Hard does not a sport make, if you want you can try to do the financial statements for the non-profit mental health organization my wife accounts for. I guarantee that is hard, but she doesn't think of it as sport.
Let me know when she has to stop doing it because it's causing health issues (I used to be a Starcraft 1 semi-pro and I burned out my hand so yeah tell me again how you could play a game "for sport" under those conditions).
Also the dimwitted perception that this has anything to do with politics is amusing... if this decision was politically motivated (IE $$$) it might've stood some ground but seeing as how this is the government just stating "we now treat x as sportsmen" you'll excuse me if I don't see the political angle (if new laws were enacted yes, if the supreme court was involved, yes, if the government just says "yo guys, you know those people you always considered jokes? well now they'll be laughing back too", no)
Now its starting to come into frame why your so pro e-sports. You burned out your hand playing semi pro starcraft1? LOL! Sorry it took me longer to type that out do to my laughing my ass off.
As another poster is pointing out, A and For are different things.
As in "I chase women for sport". and "I play a sport, rugby."
I LOVES me some semantics.
Unfortunately, that is all your argument is, fighting over semantics. That and your opinion of what constitutes a 'sport' and whether the government is entitled to group esport with sports like the NFL, NBL etc. No problem here with either. In this I am being a good 'sport'.
Maybe someone will start a petition and try to reverse this decision, but considering how benign it is, I don't see any politic backlash.
Semantics is the MEANING OF WORDS, not opinion.
And the meaning of words is the opinion on what sounds relate to what notions, objects, animals, people, etc. Bend it more please to prove a point and I can start amusing myself showing you how much semantics has changed just for one word.
In this case the "semantics" have to do with 1 or 2 of the definitions you posted earlier for sport. You are the one trying to twist those definitions into 1 to justify your position.
The definitions for what constitutes a sport was posted earlier in the thread, keep trying though, you're almost at the point of contradicting yourself.
Yup, you posted them up, and as I read it, NFL and video games would fall into different definitions, based on your post. So for the government to say "e-sport is = NFL, NBA, yadda yadda, is a fail argument.
Yes an orange is the color orange. But you wouldn't argue that an orange crayon is juicy because of that.
Exactly. In any dictionary you look up you'll see a possible definition of sports as a noun as
a : a source of diversion :recreation from merriam-webster
b : diversion; recreation; pleasant pastime. from Dictionary.com
It falls into that category. The fact you do not wish to have it there shows in your posts (opinion). Alsoo, your 'A and FOR' example is using semantics.
Mental fortitude, strategic cunning, unparalleled reaction time and often team work seems like it could be a sport to me. I'd say the same with Chess and anything that really makes you think. It differs depending on the game, but the only real difference is the money people receive for the job at hand.
Both have to be born with a sort of natural talent (as each sport has different requirements such as reaction time and the like) and both have to spend twelve plus hours perfecting their craft. One just has the benefit of being a healthier lifestyle than the other if not tempered with exercise.
Both attract crowds who can have insane fandom and who gather in large crowds for events and or something being broadcast on the internet. On the professional level this very much is a sport, even if it has to be separated with an "e" before it's namesake.
Sports do not require physical fitness at all; it's about the competitive nature of the human spirit. The same goes for bowling and other simple things; some of their professionals are heavy, yet it is a competitive sport.
To add to this, I think people are confusing the term "Sport" with a specific tag such as "Atheltic Sport". This is where I think ignorance is playing in. E-Sports very clearly has it's own tag, and Sports in itself is the spirit of competition that spark camaraderie. The competitive nature of the human soul and how it achieves great things. This could be in athletics or even recreational and pleasant pastime. Heck one of the most archaic definitions of the term is "To amuse".
Though I see comments such as them never being given an award by an Athletic sports group. Why would they and how is this in context of what is being said? Again, I believe this is just a misunderstanding or misinterpretation of the whole. It is not an athletic sport, it is an entertaining and mental sport (an entertaining sport, the same was wrestling being "Sports Entertainment") that could be used as game by non-professionals (the same as both types of football) by others. But it has an underlining nature of being competitive and providing amusement for the masses who enjoy such a thing.
Due to frequent travel in my youth, English isn't something I consider my primary language (and thus I obtained quirky ways of writing). German and French were always easier for me despite my family being U.S. citizens for over a century. Spanish I learned as a requirement in school, Japanese and Korean I acquired for my youthful desire of anime and gaming (and also work now). I only debate in English to help me work with it (and limit things). In addition, I'm not smart enough to remain fluent in everything and typically need exposure to get in the groove of things again if I haven't heard it in a while. If you understand Mandarin, I know a little, but it has actually been a challenge and could use some help.
Also, I thoroughly enjoy debates and have accounts on over a dozen sites for this. If you wish to engage in such, please put effort in a post and provide sources -- I will then do the same with what I already wrote (if I didn't) as well as with my responses to your own. Expanding my information on a subject makes my stance either change or strengthen the next time I speak of it or write a thesis. Allow me to thank you sincerely for your time.
Let me know when she has to stop doing it because it's causing health issues (I used to be a Starcraft 1 semi-pro and I burned out my hand so yeah tell me again how you could play a game "for sport" under those conditions).
Also the dimwitted perception that this has anything to do with politics is amusing... if this decision was politically motivated (IE $$$) it might've stood some ground but seeing as how this is the government just stating "we now treat x as sportsmen" you'll excuse me if I don't see the political angle (if new laws were enacted yes, if the supreme court was involved, yes, if the government just says "yo guys, you know those people you always considered jokes? well now they'll be laughing back too", no)
Now its starting to come into frame why your so pro e-sports. You burned out your hand playing semi pro starcraft1? LOL! Sorry it took me longer to type that out do to my laughing my ass off.
Keep digging, you'll get to China someday.
I wont have to dig. Ill just say im a pro e-sport gamer and get that easy visa.
Exactly. In any dictionary you look up you'll see a possible definition of sports as a noun as
a : a source of diversion :recreation from merriam-webster
b : diversion; recreation; pleasant pastime. from Dictionary.com
It falls into that category. The fact you do not wish to have it there shows in your posts (opinion). Alsoo, your 'A and FOR' example is using semantics.
As another poster posted the definition is long, and has many facets.
I would argue that when you begin to take a bit from part a., some from part b., maybe a little from part c. you have lost the meaning and are just trying to use justification.
Being able to "justify" something does not make it correct.
Comments
And the meaning of words is the opinion on what sounds relate to what notions, objects, animals, people, etc. Bend it more please to prove a point and I can start amusing myself showing you how much semantics has changed just for one word.
Did not know you could get hairline fractures from data entry, good to know.
Oh but you are wrong! All the tense gaming action and cursing at the other team can get you neck, back, and vocal cord strains. Your are getting an adrenaline rush and increased heart rate. It even induces sweating!! Has to be a sport.
LOL
How about i take my foot out of my mouth and plant it in your ass. Do you think i give a rats ass about someones "gaming training"? Please. How pathetic. A Special diet? of what Strawberry Yoohoo and Taco Bell? Now with that said, im not saying their not good at what they do. But to consider it a sport is retarded.
My own government said it was a sport to get more money. Has nothing to do with them thinking this is a real sport and everything to do with cash.
Some fat nerd playing a video game, you're right i can see how that is a sport. Is typing a sport too because it involves pushing buttons? Just because you are competing against someone else doesn't mean it's a sport...what about drinking contests and hot dog eating, are they sports too?
*sigh* these people who don't know the meaning of words.
In fact a sport is a physical game. So yes, it 100% entails physical ability when the term sport if used which is why video games, chess, and poker are not sports even though they all have top level competitions of extreme skill.
Physical threats ? You just proved my point about how narrow minded you are. Enjoy your shallow existence.
That also sounds like alot of marriages I know. Add to that the dodgeball reflexes in avoiding plates and stuff and you got yourself some hardcore sports action right there.
In this case the "semantics" have to do with 1 or 2 of the definitions you posted earlier for sport. You are the one trying to twist those definitions into 1 to justify your position.
All tournament winnings and money made in any form is already taxable so no because you already have to pay taxes for that stuff.
They are concidered to be sports yes.
But then you have the seperation between olympic etc etc.
Your opinion does not really change what I said, sorry.
Well i had a problem ti define what a real sport is so i decided to hedge my bet.
After all both chess and snowboarding are called sports from time to time. But my main point was that i fully support giving the e-sport stars the same rights as chess players and snowboarders.
After all E-sport on a Pro level takes the exact same things as "real" sport.
This have been a good conversation
also to the people that keep insisting that sport is a physical activity, please at least look up the word before you make yourself look stupid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sport
read the whole thing, not just the first few words
The definitions for what constitutes a sport were posted earlier in the thread, keep trying though, you're almost at the point of contradicting yourself.
Now its starting to come into frame why you're so pro e-sports. You burned out your hand playing semi pro starcraft1? LOL! Sorry it took me longer to type that out do to my laughing my ass off.
Keep digging, you'll get to China someday.
Yup, you posted them up, and as I read it, NFL and video games would fall into different definitions, based on your post. So for the government to say "e-sport is = NFL, NBA, yadda yadda, is a fail argument.
Yes an orange is the color orange. But you wouldn't argue that an orange crayon is juicy because of that.
Exactly. In any dictionary you look up you'll see a possible definition of sports as a noun as
a : a source of diversion : recreation from merriam-webster
b : diversion; recreation; pleasant pastime. from Dictionary.com
It falls into that category. The fact you do not wish to have it there shows in your posts (opinion). Alsoo, your 'A and FOR' example is using semantics.
No offence and completly of topic but if you are going to quote and have a signature like yours....learn to cut your posts.
Simple courtesy.
Why good does supporting eSports do for gaming anyway?
To add to this, I think people are confusing the term "Sport" with a specific tag such as "Atheltic Sport". This is where I think ignorance is playing in. E-Sports very clearly has it's own tag, and Sports in itself is the spirit of competition that spark camaraderie. The competitive nature of the human soul and how it achieves great things. This could be in athletics or even recreational and pleasant pastime. Heck one of the most archaic definitions of the term is "To amuse".
Though I see comments such as them never being given an award by an Athletic sports group. Why would they and how is this in context of what is being said? Again, I believe this is just a misunderstanding or misinterpretation of the whole. It is not an athletic sport, it is an entertaining and mental sport (an entertaining sport, the same was wrestling being "Sports Entertainment") that could be used as game by non-professionals (the same as both types of football) by others. But it has an underlining nature of being competitive and providing amusement for the masses who enjoy such a thing.
I wont have to dig. Ill just say im a pro e-sport gamer and get that easy visa.
You're right. my bad. It was getting to long. perhaps ill go back and do that. thanks
As another poster posted the definition is long, and has many facets.
I would argue that when you begin to take a bit from part a., some from part b., maybe a little from part c. you have lost the meaning and are just trying to use justification.
Being able to "justify" something does not make it correct.
And thank you for being civil about it.