And when do ppl like you realize that not every mmo is aiming for +1mln sub/playerbase or killing wow or anything else then lets call it 700k stable sub base?
There are 928390121 themepark, PvE centric MMORPGs.
There are 2 succesful, subscription based MMOs;
- one of them is a themepark MMORPG,
- and the other is a sci-fi, PvP centric, full sandbox...
Good luck trying to run another succesful, sub-based, themepark MMORPG.
I must agree with this. I don't see FFXIV pulling people away from F2P titles that people are currently playing. I really liked the beta, but not enough to start paying a sub again.
There are 928390121 themepark, PvE centric MMORPGs.
There are 2 succesful, subscription based MMOs;
- one of them is a themepark MMORPG,
- and the other is a sci-fi, PvP centric, full sandbox...
Good luck trying to run another succesful, sub-based, themepark MMORPG.
I must agree with this. I don't see FFXIV pulling people away from F2P titles that people are currently playing. I really liked the beta, but not enough to start paying a sub again.
Problem is there is nothing else to play atm free or not.
There are 928390121 themepark, PvE centric MMORPGs.
There are 2 succesful, subscription based MMOs;
- one of them is a themepark MMORPG,
- and the other is a sci-fi, PvP centric, full sandbox...
Good luck trying to run another succesful, sub-based, themepark MMORPG.
I must agree with this. I don't see FFXIV pulling people away from F2P titles that people are currently playing. I really liked the beta, but not enough to start paying a sub again.
How many people willing to pay for a sub is all this is about. No one is saying FFXIV will ever have WoW numbers. I venture to say that no MMO ever will. The question is, how many subs does FFXIV need to be a success.
Success is VERY EASILY defined. Success (Profit) = Income - Costs. If 500k subscribers makes a profit for SE, that's all it takes.
I find it hard to believe that a game of this quality will not get 500k subscribers, at least. I am sure of this because FFXIV is unique. This is the same reason why Aion is a financial success even though it's barily noticeable in NA or EU.
Korean players love it so they pay to keep it afloat while NA players get the benefit of the content patches. I say that FFXIV is much better than Aion in every way and it has the benefit of the Japanese market. BTW, PS3 is also a huge component. So many people who have never played MMOs are playing this game because it's an FF first and an MMO second.
BTW, any of you know that SE already has a partnership with a Chinese company to release this game in China? FFXIV has a lot of unique characteristics that no other MMO in recent history can match (Ps3, Japanese Market, China Release, FF brand name, etc etc.
Some games have a combination of the above, but none have ALL of the above. FFXIV is different and the subscription numbers will show it.
EDIT: It also helps that Digital version of the game is only $29.99. The subscription price at $12.99 is also lower than the industry average. Legacy players only pay $10 a month. All these are pluses in FFXIV's column.
There are 928390121 themepark, PvE centric MMORPGs.
There are 2 succesful, subscription based MMOs;
- one of them is a themepark MMORPG,
- and the other is a sci-fi, PvP centric, full sandbox...
Good luck trying to run another succesful, sub-based, themepark MMORPG.
I must agree with this. I don't see FFXIV pulling people away from F2P titles that people are currently playing. I really liked the beta, but not enough to start paying a sub again.
How many people willing to pay for a sub is all this is about. No one is saying FFXIV will ever have WoW numbers. I venture to say that no MMO ever will. The question is, how many subs does FFXIV need to be a success.
Success is VERY EASILY defined. Success (Profit) = Income - Costs. If 500k subscribers makes a profit for SE, that's all it takes.
I find it hard to believe that a game of this quality will not get 500k subscribers, at least. I am sure of this because FFXIV is unique. This is the same reason why Aion is a financial success even though it's barily noticeable in NA or EU.
Korean players love it so they pay to keep it afloat while NA players get the benefit of the content patches. I say that FFXIV is much better than Aion in every way and it has the benefit of the Japanese market. BTW, PS3 is also a huge component. So many people who have never played MMOs are playing this game because it's an FF first and an MMO second.
BTW, any of you know that SE already has a partnership with a Chinese company to release this game in China? FFXIV has a lot of unique characteristics that no other MMO in recent history can match (Ps3, Japanese Market, China Release, FF brand name, etc etc.
Some games have a combination of the above, but none have ALL of the above. FFXIV is different and the subscription numbers will show it.
EDIT: It also helps that Digital version of the game is only $29.99. The subscription price at $12.99 is also lower than the industry average. Legacy players only pay $10 a month. All these are pluses in FFXIV's column.
You forgot to add that it will be released on PS4 as well and PC will get dx11 client release at the same time
What does the company have to do with the community? You're not even presenting the same argument.
Look, I don't care if the community ends up being the best community ever, but the fact that people think payment method either encourages or deters trolls and bad behavior is bizarre to me, and statistically inaccurate. It's game mechanics that ultimately cause players to act out. P2P example: WoW. F2P example: League of Legends. P2P gone F2P examples: TERA, SWTOR.
All examples of terrible communities, regardless of payment. I think I'm wasting my breath here.
What does game mechanic have to do with trolls. Seriously, show me the game mechanic in these forums that "make" people troll? There are none because trolling has diddly to do with game mechanics and more to do with easy accessibility. Your WoW example is more of an exception to the rule.
Its very simple unless you don't want to see it, there are trolls in every game/forums etc etc mechanics notwithstanding, One thing though is that is is much harder for trolls to troll in a p2p game than in a f2p one whether it be via the forums or in game as in one once your banned it not as easy as making a new free account via proxy.
For example In a f2p game people will often log in or go troll in the game forum even if they don't play anymore because it accessible and free whereas in a p2p game this is very unlikely as they tend to not resub, once that runs out, just to "troll".
Doesn't mean there won't be any at all but is is quite a deterrent.
What does SE have to do with if the game will go f2p or not you ask seriously? This is what the thread is about, not where trolls come from. SE has shown in the past they support p2p (FFXI) and this is a precedent that shows it is likely they will do this again with ARR.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
So is FFXIV really going to be Subscription based? And if so will it have a cash shop? I'm finding it hard to believe. I don't think there's been a new triple A subscription based MMORPG since WoW in 2004.
It is? SWEET! I was going to cross this off my "play" list but if this is true I may have to give this a go!
There are 928390121 themepark, PvE centric MMORPGs.
There are 2 succesful, subscription based MMOs;
- one of them is a themepark MMORPG,
- and the other is a sci-fi, PvP centric, full sandbox...
Good luck trying to run another succesful, sub-based, themepark MMORPG.
Your looking at this wrong. There is a market for p2p games even if f2p has picked up some steam this is a fact. You yourself admit it with your own post.
This mean for the people that want p2p FFXIVARR has even less competition as they are not competing with f2p games. Some of us long term f2p players, like myself, are sick and tired of the f2p model.
We don't all want to play a game for a month or two and then move on to the next overpriced bug ridden exploit infested cash grab and that is what most f2p games are even if you don't spend any money in them and leave after 3 or 4 weeks.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
See ya in 8-13 months to see who eats their words. I would put money down on it going my way. The market is in the middle of a quantum shift. It will be change or die. Unless you hold a very unique corner of the market. FF is not that game as awesome as it is.
lol, Id think about that first. Rift was a no name game from a no name company and quite frankly, one of the few games id label as an actual WoW clone and it lasted 3 years. Was it even released in Asia? Much like SE (and Blizzard) Trion Worlds published the game itself ... so no EA or SoE asking "wheres my money" (a point Yoshi has stressed multiple times)
/shrug ... itll last longer, specially with Yoshi leading the charge. Oh and in case anyone missed it before
See ya in 8-13 months to see who eats their words. I would put money down on it going my way. The market is in the middle of a quantum shift. It will be change or die. Unless you hold a very unique corner of the market. FF is not that game as awesome as it is.
lol, Id think about that first. Rift was a no name game from a no name company and quite frankly, one of the few games id label as an actual WoW clone and it lasted 3 years. Was it even released in Asia? Much like SE (and Blizzard) Trion Worlds published the game itself ... so no EA or SoE asking "wheres my money" (a point Yoshi has stressed multiple times)
/shrug ... itll last longer, specially with Yoshi leading the charge. Oh and in case anyone missed it before
And yet it also went F2P. FF14 will do it az well just like my above post said.
See ya in 8-13 months to see who eats their words. I would put money down on it going my way. The market is in the middle of a quantum shift. It will be change or die. Unless you hold a very unique corner of the market. FF is not that game as awesome as it is.
lol, Id think about that first. Rift was a no name game from a no name company and quite frankly, one of the few games id label as an actual WoW clone and it lasted 3 years. Was it even released in Asia? Much like SE (and Blizzard) Trion Worlds published the game itself ... so no EA or SoE asking "wheres my money" (a point Yoshi has stressed multiple times)
/shrug ... itll last longer, specially with Yoshi leading the charge. Oh and in case anyone missed it before
And yet it also went F2P. FF14 will do it az well just like my above post said.
Nanfoodle,
SE and Yoshi already said they do not have investors who will want their money back the day the game drops. They have NO investors period. The same as Blizzard when they launched WoW. They dont care if they do not make money back in 6 months or 12 months. They do know aiming for 250K to 1 Million subs will make their money back in an acceptable time frame. Period end of story. SE made FFXI and its still P2P 10 years later, They also took what 2 years to make money back on the initial investment. They dont care that was good enough for them. SE is not an American company who wants truck loads of money on their doorstep day 1.
lol, Id think about that first. Rift was a no name game from a no name company and quite frankly, one of the few games id label as an actual WoW clone and it lasted 3 years. Was it even released in Asia? Much like SE (and Blizzard) Trion Worlds published the game itself ... so no EA or SoE asking "wheres my money" (a point Yoshi has stressed multiple times)
/shrug ... itll last longer, specially with Yoshi leading the charge. Oh and in case anyone missed it before
And yet it also went F2P. FF14 will do it az well just like my above post said.
And it took multiple failed games (EoN and Defiance) and failed in a BIG way ... as in layoffs galore. Did you even see the part where it took 2+ years (its 2 not 3, just double checked) to convert? Thats double the 8-13 months.
If anything, SE has a better chance at going past 2 years. Again, Rift... a "no name game from a no name company and quite frankly, one of the few games id label as an actual WoW clone" it went for 2 years P2P. Pretty much everything short of its talent system (which was its only real gameplay strength) was a WoW copy and even then the sounds, animations, and storylines were incredibly stale and BORING as was the entire crafting system. SE has MANY more things going for it than Trion, including 2 console releases, an IP thats incredibly popular in ALL regions, and an Asian market which Trion hardly touched, if at all. There is no guarantee itll be p2p forever but chances are extremely high itll be that way for a much longer time than previous MMOs.
This is the same circumstances that TOR was under. All the players will swear up and down that this one will be different and in 6 months it will go B2P. We all know it is a fantasy land to make a themepark that can hold interest for months on end and charge a sub. People will lie to themselves and talk about how great it is going to be as a sub, but it will go B2P or it will disappear in a few months.
I wonder if Square will survive this...
You are taking circumstances that surrounded TOR and transposing them onto FF14 where they mey not be the same.
EA/BW spend a fortune on a gimmick. They founded the entire premise of their MMORPG on a solo player feature. Almost the full entirety of the game's overly expensive content was experienced in a week. How is a game like that supposed to command a subscription?
As I understand it, this game was designed from the endgame back. Just calling it "AAA Fantasy Theme Park" (ie WoW clone) is not why AAA titles have been failing to keep subs. They have been failing because they simply don't have more than 2-3 weeks of content.
I would say the circumstances are worse for FFXIV since the first one had to be changed to B2P and eventually taken offline and scraped because of how bad it was. The game has a very bad rep and people in this community do not forget things like that. I hope P2P works out but i honestly doubt it.
While they have to overcome their past fiasco, there are plenty of people who weren't part of that who will look at this game for what it currenly is. So, they'll gain new customers who weren't around for 1.0.
Also, For every person who is out there saying I refuse to pay a sub, there is someone else out there (me) saying "What? Monthly sub, no Cash Shop? Where can I throw my money at it?" I really don't care if it turns out not to be all that great. It just has to be good enough without a cash shop and they have my money.
I remember making a post here like 3 or 4 years ago saying GW2 will be for pvp'ers and ffxiv will be for crafters. I think if SE builds on the crafting/gathering system already in place, plus adds the housing in a timely manner and the golden saucer, this game will have a healthy base of long term subscribers.
It saddens me to see many people expect the hard work of a team of developers should just be handed to them for free with a subscription. Who cares if it's a triple A title with a sub...guess what I'll pay it. A lot of people don't want the sub because they either A) Can't afford it, or Just don't want to support a dev team. It's because of free to play mmos that the genre has taken a nose dive in the deep end without water. You can't name me a AAA title that released F2P that has brought home the numbers and financial figures as WoW. WoW's success was a fluke. They made it easily accessible to the regular gamer and person and thus the market gets inundates with crap from devs trying to copy the mark. I can only name a few AA titles that were worth my time and money (and some I feel should still be a sub). Everquest, WoW, Eve, and LotRO are some of the greatest MMO's released. And I say "some" because that's actually a long list but those were my preferences. I also support the subscription model because the crowd of people who pay tend to really enjoy spending their time in something they have continuously paid for, unlike, say Neverwinter, which seems to be full of kids who have no clue what they're doing or people who just don't care (though the economy is brilliant as it punches the goldfarmers right in the gut). Personally I pay for two subs. Eve (kinda) and LotRO. I say Kinda on Eve because if you're good enough you can play and never spend a dime.
"If at first you don't succeed, excessive force is probably the answer."
lol, Id think about that first. Rift was a no name game from a no name company and quite frankly, one of the few games id label as an actual WoW clone and it lasted 3 years. Was it even released in Asia? Much like SE (and Blizzard) Trion Worlds published the game itself ... so no EA or SoE asking "wheres my money" (a point Yoshi has stressed multiple times)
/shrug ... itll last longer, specially with Yoshi leading the charge. Oh and in case anyone missed it before
And yet it also went F2P. FF14 will do it az well just like my above post said.
And it took multiple failed games (EoN and Defiance) and failed in a BIG way ... as in layoffs galore. Did you even see the part where it took 2+ years (its 2 not 3, just double checked) to convert? Thats double the 8-13 months.
If anything, SE has a better chance at going past 2 years. Again, Rift... a "no name game from a no name company and quite frankly, one of the few games id label as an actual WoW clone" it went for 2 years P2P. Pretty much everything short of its talent system (which was its only real gameplay strength) was a WoW copy and even then the sounds, animations, and storylines were incredibly stale and BORING as was the entire crafting system. SE has MANY more things going for it than Trion, including 2 console releases, an IP thats incredibly popular in ALL regions, and an Asian market which Trion hardly touched, if at all. There is no guarantee itll be p2p forever but chances are extremely high itll be that way for a much longer time than previous MMOs.
The times have changed as well in the past 2 years. New customers are picking F2P because they have so many games to pick from. You wana keep a flow of new people trying your game in this new market get with the times. It will happen.
In the past few years; Very few titles have been of a quality to warrant a subscription. There simply wasnt a retention rate supporting the model.
That speaks to the quality of the game, not to the model itself.
I happily payed EQ1 sub for over 4 consequtive years, and later similar amount of time for wow. - For a while, during the years 2008 and 2012, I was still dumb enough to purchase every socalled AA title, quite a few of which started out as sub based games. I sometimes did not even last the first free 30 days. - I was not burned out on the genre. - I was purchasing games that had poor content, and very poor lasting power, apart from gimmicky end game and very few social mechanics in place to create meaningfull communities.
In my honest opinion, f2p is for games that want a quick bang for the buck, and who can successfully appeal to the addictive and compulsive behaviour many gamers have inherent in their nature. - Examples like teras chance based boxes or Gw2's for that matter.
p2p are restricted to games that are good enough, and confident enough at launch to hold a retention rate on their subscribers, large enough, so that the eventual gain on the cashshop, doesnt greatly outpace the income from their subscriptions.
it seems obvious then why some games who fail to hold high rentention go to the f2p model > Swtor and Tsw, and why some games like wow, still earn so much from subs that it wouldnt make sense to drop the sub - yet!
A realm reborn should start out as a sub, and it will hopefully prove itself to be just the gem it needs to be in order to hold to the sub system. There is not reason whatsoever for a game that seems to believe in itself for a relaunch to start as if defeated and be f2p. It is obvious that that is something those who have failed the sub method do later to earn something on their investment. - Not something we as gamers should encourage as a strategy during development, and early release imo.
Originally posted by Ravenmane It saddens me to see many people expect the hard work of a team of developers should just be handed to them for free with a subscription. Who cares if it's a triple A title with a sub...guess what I'll pay it. A lot of people don't want the sub because they either A) Can't afford it, or Just don't want to support a dev team.
Really? Those are the only two reasons. Cool, I'll be sure to take everything YOU say seriously from here on.
What does the company have to do with the community? You're not even presenting the same argument.
Look, I don't care if the community ends up being the best community ever, but the fact that people think payment method either encourages or deters trolls and bad behavior is bizarre to me, and statistically inaccurate. It's game mechanics that ultimately cause players to act out. P2P example: WoW. F2P example: League of Legends. P2P gone F2P examples: TERA, SWTOR.
All examples of terrible communities, regardless of payment. I think I'm wasting my breath here.
What does game mechanic have to do with trolls. Seriously, show me the game mechanic in these forums that "make" people troll? There are none because trolling has diddly to do with game mechanics and more to do with easy accessibility. Your WoW example is more of an exception to the rule.
Forums ARE a mechanic. A public forum that's well-populated will attract trolls because they will get a response. To further prove my point, the Something Awful forums were paid forums (a terrible idea that people paid for anyway), and there was nothing BUT trolls there. It's the same with games, price tag or no price tag. Trolls usually go where the action is. Someone made a dense comment about the quality of trolls being better because they have to pay a sub. I wouldn't even know where to begin with that one.
There is NO proof on your end that trolling is seen more in F2P games. It's a stupid concept used by people who still want to pretend that renting software they own is necessary to support game development when ANet already proved it isn't.
What does the company have to do with the community? You're not even presenting the same argument.
Look, I don't care if the community ends up being the best community ever, but the fact that people think payment method either encourages or deters trolls and bad behavior is bizarre to me, and statistically inaccurate. It's game mechanics that ultimately cause players to act out. P2P example: WoW. F2P example: League of Legends. P2P gone F2P examples: TERA, SWTOR.
All examples of terrible communities, regardless of payment. I think I'm wasting my breath here.
What does game mechanic have to do with trolls. Seriously, show me the game mechanic in these forums that "make" people troll? There are none because trolling has diddly to do with game mechanics and more to do with easy accessibility. Your WoW example is more of an exception to the rule.
Forums ARE a mechanic. A public forum that's well-populated will attract trolls because they will get a response. To further prove my point, the Something Awful forums were paid forums (a terrible idea that people paid for anyway), and there was nothing BUT trolls there. It's the same with games, price tag or no price tag. Trolls usually go where the action is. Someone made a dense comment about the quality of trolls being better because they have to pay a sub. I wouldn't even know where to begin with that one.
There is NO proof on your end that trolling is seen more in F2P games. It's a stupid concept used by people who still want to pretend that renting software they own is necessary to support game development when ANet already proved it isn't.
Lol, now we re going to hear about the huge content updates in GW2 I guess. In my experiences, P2P games have been better, but hey that's what I ve seen. When Rift was p2p the chat was a hell of a lot better then now, and way less troll crap. Tera, I don t even want to get into that one. GW2, no one chats anyways so I don t really count that one.
Comments
How conveniently you forget to mention the "elephant in the room" which is the most applicable to FFXIV....
What about FFXI?
I must agree with this. I don't see FFXIV pulling people away from F2P titles that people are currently playing. I really liked the beta, but not enough to start paying a sub again.
Problem is there is nothing else to play atm free or not.
(Retired)- Anarchy Online/Ultima Online/DAoC/Horizonsz/EQ2/SWG/AC1&2/L2/SoR/WoW/TMO/Requiem/Atlantica Online/Manibogi/Rift+(SL)/Lol/Hon/SWTOR/Wakfu/Champions Online/GW/Lotr/CO/TcoS/Tabula Rasa/Meridian 59/Vanguard/Shadowbane/Fury/SotW/Dreamlords/HGL/RoM/DDO/FFXI/Aoc/Eve/Warhammer Online/Gw2/TSW/Tera/Defiance/STO/AoW/DE/Firefall/Darkfall/Neverwinter/PS2/ESO/FF14/Archeage/Gw2
How many people willing to pay for a sub is all this is about. No one is saying FFXIV will ever have WoW numbers. I venture to say that no MMO ever will. The question is, how many subs does FFXIV need to be a success.
Success is VERY EASILY defined. Success (Profit) = Income - Costs. If 500k subscribers makes a profit for SE, that's all it takes.
I find it hard to believe that a game of this quality will not get 500k subscribers, at least. I am sure of this because FFXIV is unique. This is the same reason why Aion is a financial success even though it's barily noticeable in NA or EU.
Korean players love it so they pay to keep it afloat while NA players get the benefit of the content patches. I say that FFXIV is much better than Aion in every way and it has the benefit of the Japanese market. BTW, PS3 is also a huge component. So many people who have never played MMOs are playing this game because it's an FF first and an MMO second.
BTW, any of you know that SE already has a partnership with a Chinese company to release this game in China? FFXIV has a lot of unique characteristics that no other MMO in recent history can match (Ps3, Japanese Market, China Release, FF brand name, etc etc.
Some games have a combination of the above, but none have ALL of the above. FFXIV is different and the subscription numbers will show it.
EDIT: It also helps that Digital version of the game is only $29.99. The subscription price at $12.99 is also lower than the industry average. Legacy players only pay $10 a month. All these are pluses in FFXIV's column.
You forgot to add that it will be released on PS4 as well and PC will get dx11 client release at the same time
(Retired)- Anarchy Online/Ultima Online/DAoC/Horizonsz/EQ2/SWG/AC1&2/L2/SoR/WoW/TMO/Requiem/Atlantica Online/Manibogi/Rift+(SL)/Lol/Hon/SWTOR/Wakfu/Champions Online/GW/Lotr/CO/TcoS/Tabula Rasa/Meridian 59/Vanguard/Shadowbane/Fury/SotW/Dreamlords/HGL/RoM/DDO/FFXI/Aoc/Eve/Warhammer Online/Gw2/TSW/Tera/Defiance/STO/AoW/DE/Firefall/Darkfall/Neverwinter/PS2/ESO/FF14/Archeage/Gw2
What does game mechanic have to do with trolls. Seriously, show me the game mechanic in these forums that "make" people troll? There are none because trolling has diddly to do with game mechanics and more to do with easy accessibility. Your WoW example is more of an exception to the rule.
Its very simple unless you don't want to see it, there are trolls in every game/forums etc etc mechanics notwithstanding, One thing though is that is is much harder for trolls to troll in a p2p game than in a f2p one whether it be via the forums or in game as in one once your banned it not as easy as making a new free account via proxy.
For example In a f2p game people will often log in or go troll in the game forum even if they don't play anymore because it accessible and free whereas in a p2p game this is very unlikely as they tend to not resub, once that runs out, just to "troll".
Doesn't mean there won't be any at all but is is quite a deterrent.
What does SE have to do with if the game will go f2p or not you ask seriously? This is what the thread is about, not where trolls come from. SE has shown in the past they support p2p (FFXI) and this is a precedent that shows it is likely they will do this again with ARR.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
It is? SWEET! I was going to cross this off my "play" list but if this is true I may have to give this a go!
Ratero.
Your looking at this wrong. There is a market for p2p games even if f2p has picked up some steam this is a fact. You yourself admit it with your own post.
This mean for the people that want p2p FFXIVARR has even less competition as they are not competing with f2p games. Some of us long term f2p players, like myself, are sick and tired of the f2p model.
We don't all want to play a game for a month or two and then move on to the next overpriced bug ridden exploit infested cash grab and that is what most f2p games are even if you don't spend any money in them and leave after 3 or 4 weeks.
Brenics ~ Just to point out I do believe Chris Roberts is going down as the man who cheated backers and took down crowdfunding for gaming.
lol, Id think about that first. Rift was a no name game from a no name company and quite frankly, one of the few games id label as an actual WoW clone and it lasted 3 years. Was it even released in Asia? Much like SE (and Blizzard) Trion Worlds published the game itself ... so no EA or SoE asking "wheres my money" (a point Yoshi has stressed multiple times)
/shrug ... itll last longer, specially with Yoshi leading the charge. Oh and in case anyone missed it before
And yet it also went F2P. FF14 will do it az well just like my above post said.
If/when it goes cash shop style, I'll bounce. But for now I plan to enjoy the hell out of it.
Nanfoodle,
SE and Yoshi already said they do not have investors who will want their money back the day the game drops. They have NO investors period. The same as Blizzard when they launched WoW. They dont care if they do not make money back in 6 months or 12 months. They do know aiming for 250K to 1 Million subs will make their money back in an acceptable time frame. Period end of story. SE made FFXI and its still P2P 10 years later, They also took what 2 years to make money back on the initial investment. They dont care that was good enough for them. SE is not an American company who wants truck loads of money on their doorstep day 1.
I dont mind so much realm transfers, or name changes. Or stupid little do nothing pet. Anything else I agree not enjoyable.
If you wonder if FF will stay sub or go ftp take a look at this.
https://www.google.com/finance?q=TYO%3A9684&sq=square-enix&sp=1&ei=hZBlUaiSO6iI0QGIDA
And it took multiple failed games (EoN and Defiance) and failed in a BIG way ... as in layoffs galore. Did you even see the part where it took 2+ years (its 2 not 3, just double checked) to convert? Thats double the 8-13 months.
If anything, SE has a better chance at going past 2 years. Again, Rift... a "no name game from a no name company and quite frankly, one of the few games id label as an actual WoW clone" it went for 2 years P2P. Pretty much everything short of its talent system (which was its only real gameplay strength) was a WoW copy and even then the sounds, animations, and storylines were incredibly stale and BORING as was the entire crafting system. SE has MANY more things going for it than Trion, including 2 console releases, an IP thats incredibly popular in ALL regions, and an Asian market which Trion hardly touched, if at all. There is no guarantee itll be p2p forever but chances are extremely high itll be that way for a much longer time than previous MMOs.
While they have to overcome their past fiasco, there are plenty of people who weren't part of that who will look at this game for what it currenly is. So, they'll gain new customers who weren't around for 1.0.
Also, For every person who is out there saying I refuse to pay a sub, there is someone else out there (me) saying "What? Monthly sub, no Cash Shop? Where can I throw my money at it?" I really don't care if it turns out not to be all that great. It just has to be good enough without a cash shop and they have my money.
I remember making a post here like 3 or 4 years ago saying GW2 will be for pvp'ers and ffxiv will be for crafters. I think if SE builds on the crafting/gathering system already in place, plus adds the housing in a timely manner and the golden saucer, this game will have a healthy base of long term subscribers.
The times have changed as well in the past 2 years. New customers are picking F2P because they have so many games to pick from. You wana keep a flow of new people trying your game in this new market get with the times. It will happen.
In the past few years; Very few titles have been of a quality to warrant a subscription. There simply wasnt a retention rate supporting the model.
That speaks to the quality of the game, not to the model itself.
I happily payed EQ1 sub for over 4 consequtive years, and later similar amount of time for wow. - For a while, during the years 2008 and 2012, I was still dumb enough to purchase every socalled AA title, quite a few of which started out as sub based games. I sometimes did not even last the first free 30 days. - I was not burned out on the genre. - I was purchasing games that had poor content, and very poor lasting power, apart from gimmicky end game and very few social mechanics in place to create meaningfull communities.
In my honest opinion, f2p is for games that want a quick bang for the buck, and who can successfully appeal to the addictive and compulsive behaviour many gamers have inherent in their nature. - Examples like teras chance based boxes or Gw2's for that matter.
p2p are restricted to games that are good enough, and confident enough at launch to hold a retention rate on their subscribers, large enough, so that the eventual gain on the cashshop, doesnt greatly outpace the income from their subscriptions.
it seems obvious then why some games who fail to hold high rentention go to the f2p model > Swtor and Tsw, and why some games like wow, still earn so much from subs that it wouldnt make sense to drop the sub - yet!
A realm reborn should start out as a sub, and it will hopefully prove itself to be just the gem it needs to be in order to hold to the sub system. There is not reason whatsoever for a game that seems to believe in itself for a relaunch to start as if defeated and be f2p. It is obvious that that is something those who have failed the sub method do later to earn something on their investment. - Not something we as gamers should encourage as a strategy during development, and early release imo.
Really? Those are the only two reasons. Cool, I'll be sure to take everything YOU say seriously from here on.
Forums ARE a mechanic. A public forum that's well-populated will attract trolls because they will get a response. To further prove my point, the Something Awful forums were paid forums (a terrible idea that people paid for anyway), and there was nothing BUT trolls there. It's the same with games, price tag or no price tag. Trolls usually go where the action is. Someone made a dense comment about the quality of trolls being better because they have to pay a sub. I wouldn't even know where to begin with that one.
There is NO proof on your end that trolling is seen more in F2P games. It's a stupid concept used by people who still want to pretend that renting software they own is necessary to support game development when ANet already proved it isn't.
Lol, now we re going to hear about the huge content updates in GW2 I guess. In my experiences, P2P games have been better, but hey that's what I ve seen. When Rift was p2p the chat was a hell of a lot better then now, and way less troll crap. Tera, I don t even want to get into that one. GW2, no one chats anyways so I don t really count that one.