MMO developers steer too far into casual friendly

ThomasN7

Probably one of the biggest reason why mmos fail so hard these days. There is no challenge, everything can be bought from a cash shop nowadays and everything is so simplified so everyone's grandmother can understand how to play. It really is quite laughable what developers think of us as gamers. They think we are so stupid that every time they make a game they need to re-teach us how to play. Really ? Listen up devs, we aren't stupid, we been playing mmos probably a lot longer than most of you out there. You guys lack so much vision on what mmos should be and you only worry about your quarterly earnings.

Since vanilla WoW there hasn't been a mmo that has captured the hearts of gamers. Lotro, Aion, Age of Conan, The Secret World, Warhammer Online, Defiance, Rift, Free Realms, GW2, The Old Republic , Tera and I'm probably missing a few but feel free to add on to some more mmo failures. Guess what all these have in common, they had all had good launches but long term they have failed so miserably. Within 3-6 months just about every mmo I mentioned has had no staying power whatsoever.

Think about that. Developers spend 5-7 years making a theme park mmos just so it can fail 6 months down the road. That is a whole lot of wasted time and 75% of  the time these mmos haven't even made a profit within a 6 month period. Sad isn't it ? 

I think for me personally I am almost done with mmos. I'm waiting for Destiny and The Division to come to console. I'm not sure I want to waste more money on games that have no longevity to them. Quality > quantity.

Yalexy

It's the world in general. Everyone wants everything instantly these days and this leads to these bad titles being released.

MMOs should require time to build up your characters and they should be aswell more about building relationships with other people.

Most MMOs have lasted for maybe 6 month, as this was the maximum amount of time it took me to play through all the content, get to max level and to get all the best gear available. And ths includes WoW aswell, allthough it was one of the better themeparks.

The only MMO I've played for extended times is EvE Online because it wasn't ment to rush through it and I enjoyed it for some 7 years.

I really wish someone would come up with another MMO like EvE, but I guess that this won't happen until CCP finally comes around releasing WoD.

R_M_B

You may have a point but your choice of games as examples of failure invalidate your whole post.

AoC or TsW has a good launch? No FC game has a good launch ever.
Lotro was gone in 3 to 6 months?! Maybe so if you were born a year ago.
I did not played many other games but I personally know ppl who still enjoy Aion or GW2 and they say those games are far from "having no staying power".

Please take some time and read about the games you are calling before some one start making jokes of you.

P.S.
If it is just another attempt to say "Vanila WoW or bust" - thats a real fail.

worldalpha

Instant gratification defines this generation of gamers.

ThomasN7

Originally posted by rbialo

You may have a point but your choice of games as examples of failure invalidate your whole post.

AoC or TsW has a good launch? No FC game has a good launch ever.
Lotro was gone in 3 to 6 months?! Maybe so if you were born a year ago.
I did not played many other games but I personally know ppl who still enjoy Aion or GW2 and they say those games are far from "having no staying power".

Please take some time and read about the games you are calling before some one start making jokes of you.

P.S.
If it is just another attempt to say "Vanila WoW or bust" - thats a real fail.

How is that fail ?  I bet the majority would agree it has been WoW or bust. Can the genre be great again ? Sure it can but not the path they have chosen. 

Theocritus

The lack of challenge is frustrating.....Pretty much every MMO I have played post WoW has simply been to try and entertain and not challenge (wow wasnt all that challenging either but was compared to the MMOs since then).....Take away the cutscenes, voice acting, quest dialogue, etc and give us a challenging world to go explore with no ! or ?.....

Sovrath

Originally posted by ThomasN7

 

How is that fail ? 

Because WoW is the epitome of "casual friendly". Even at launch that was the whole idea. to mitigate or remove the things that took "a long time", that made previous games difficult.

WoW was so easy at launch, so casual friendly, removing so many things that made other games "trying" that to use it as an icon of "non casual friendly" almost turns your post into a troll post.

You didn't lose a lot of xp at death, you didn't drop items or have your body looted, leveling was fast compared to other games that came before (in Lineage 2 it took me 2 weeks i extremely hardcore playing just to get to level 20. And that was all grind).

 

I think you need to re-evaluate your stance.

Calerxes

Originally posted by ThomasN7

Probably one of the biggest reason why mmos fail so hard these days. There is no challenge, everything can be bought from a cash shop nowadays and everything is so simplified so everyone's grandmother can understand how to play. It really is quite laughable what developers think of us as gamers. They think we are so stupid that every time they make a game they need to re-teach us how to play. Really ? Listen up devs, we aren't stupid, we been playing mmos probably a lot longer than most of you out there. You guys lack so much vision on what mmos should be and you only worry about your quarterly earnings.

Since vanilla WoW there hasn't been a mmo that has captured the hearts of gamers. Lotro, Aion, Age of Conan, The Secret World, Warhammer Online, Defiance, Rift, Free Realms, GW2, The Old Republic , Tera and I'm probably missing a few but feel free to add on to some more mmo failures. Guess what all these have in common, they had all had good launches but long term they have failed so miserably. Within 3-6 months just about every mmo I mentioned has had no staying power whatsoever.

Think about that. Developers spend 5-7 years making a theme park mmos just so it can fail 6 months down the road. That is a whole lot of wasted time and 75% of  the time these mmos haven't even made a profit within a 6 month period. Sad isn't it ? 

I think for me personally I am almost done with mmos. I'm waiting for Destiny and The Division to come to console. I'm not sure I want to waste more money on games that have no longevity to them. Quality > quantity.

 

Can you explain to me your definition of failed? as I really don't see many failed MMO's to my interpretation of failed, which is the game has closed down. I feel some games flop, but fail? not really and those that flop only really flop because they are compare to the 800lb gorilla, well its more like a 400lb gorilla these days. A game that has regular updates and makes the developers money is definitely not a failure. 

Calerxes

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by ThomasN7

 

How is that fail ? 

Because WoW is the epitome of "casual friendly". Even at launch that was the whole idea. to mitigate or remove the things that took "a long time", that made previous games difficult.

WoW was so easy at launch, so casual friendly, removing so many things that made other games "trying" that to use it as an icon of "non casual friendly" almost turns your post into a troll post.

You didn't lose a lot of xp at death, you didn't drop items or have your body looted, leveling was fast compared to other games that came before (in Lineage 2 it took me 2 weeks i extremely hardcore playing just to get to level 20. And that was all grind).

 

I think you need to re-evaluate your stance.

 

I think you noticed the irony in the OP, nice one Sovrath.

evilastro

Originally posted by Sovrath

Originally posted by ThomasN7

 

How is that fail ? 

Because WoW is the epitome of "casual friendly". Even at launch that was the whole idea. to mitigate or remove the things that took "a long time", that made previous games difficult.

WoW was so easy at launch, so casual friendly, removing so many things that made other games "trying" that to use it as an icon of "non casual friendly" almost turns your post into a troll post.

You didn't lose a lot of xp at death, you didn't drop items or have your body looted, leveling was fast compared to other games that came before (in Lineage 2 it took me 2 weeks i extremely hardcore playing just to get to level 20. And that was all grind).

 

I think you need to re-evaluate your stance.

 

I agree. It really is a sad state of affairs when people are using Vanilla WoW as a benchmark for hardcore or non-casual.

ray12k

Originally posted by rbialo

You may have a point but your choice of games as examples of failure invalidate your whole post.

AoC or TsW has a good launch? No FC game has a good launch ever.
Lotro was gone in 3 to 6 months?! Maybe so if you were born a year ago.
I did not played many other games but I personally know ppl who still enjoy Aion or GW2 and they say those games are far from "having no staying power".

Please take some time and read about the games you are calling before some one start making jokes of you.

P.S.
If it is just another attempt to say "Vanila WoW or bust" - thats a real fail.

 

Actually the games you listed have failed and were forced to go ftp to make a ahort lived profit and now are on a decline... good job in writing a opinion and stating it as facts,

 

Yes the genre has become lame kiddie games made for your average forum crybaby. The truth is many people have started to sit on the side lines and given up on any  meaningful game ever being released.

LOL no form of wow was worth playing in my opinion. I mean its pretty sad i have to play A game from the late 90's (asherons call) .

 

But anyway I agree with the og poster make a game a challenging and you will get more players.

Crazy_Stick

Originally posted by worldalpha
Instant gratification defines this generation of gamers.

 

There was a time when I would have agreed with you. But the truth is that we are dinosaurs and no longer represent the average person playing or buying games. We all just niche now and the dollars dictate the dance. We were hardcore when it wasn't cool and now the townies all moved into the neighborhood bro and took away what made it geek so they could relate. It's the same old story that's been going on since the barbarians kicked down the gates of Rome and made it their city. It's not instant gratification. It's games rewarding House Mom Molly for her thirty minutes of game time between diaper changing the youngins and cooking supper while those of us who used to make the game life wonder wtf!? It is what it is and we can adapt or go fossil cause them old days aint coming back anymore than a naturally born T-Rex going to sit on your couch.

Gardavsshade

Originally posted by Crazy_Stick

Originally posted by worldalpha
Instant gratification defines this generation of gamers.

 

There was a time when I would have agreed with you. But the truth is that we are dinosaurs and no longer represent the average person playing or buying games. We all just niche now and the dollars dictate the dance. We were hardcore when it wasn't cool and now the townies all moved into the neighborhood bro and took away what made it geek so they could relate. It's the same old story that's been going on since the barbarians kicked down the gates of Rome and made it their city. It's not instant gratification. It's games rewarding House Mom Molly for her thirty minutes of game time between diaper changing the youngins and cooking supper while those of us who used to make the game life wonder wtf!? It is what it is and we can adapt or go fossil cause them old days aint coming back anymore than a naturally born T-Rex going to sit on your couch.

You have a valid point, yes you do. We, each of us still get to make a decision about it though, and mine is this:

 

I would rather be a T-Rex and extinct than a Chameleon trying to adapt to world trying to eat me for a snack.

I will stay old school MMO Player rather than adapt to a genre I no longer recognize or agree with.

TheLizardbones

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Originally posted by Gardavsshade
Originally posted by Crazy_Stick Originally posted by worldalpha Instant gratification defines this generation of gamers.

  There was a time when I would have agreed with you. But the truth is that we are dinosaurs and no longer represent the average person playing or buying games. We all just niche now and the dollars dictate the dance. We were hardcore when it wasn't cool and now the townies all moved into the neighborhood bro and took away what made it geek so they could relate. It's the same old story that's been going on since the barbarians kicked down the gates of Rome and made it their city. It's not instant gratification. It's games rewarding House Mom Molly for her thirty minutes of game time between diaper changing the youngins and cooking supper while those of us who used to make the game life wonder wtf!? It is what it is and we can adapt or go fossil cause them old days aint coming back anymore than a naturally born T-Rex going to sit on your couch.

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You have a valid point, yes you do. We, each of us still get to make a decision about it though, and mine is this:

 

I would rather be a T-Rex and extinct than a Chameleon trying to adapt to world trying to eat me for a snack.

I will stay old school MMO Player rather than adapt to a genre I no longer recognize or agree with.

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If your goal is to not have an MMORPG to play and enjoy, then that's a perfectly fine way to approach things.

ray12k

Originally posted by lizardbones

 

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Originally posted by Gardavsshade

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Originally posted by Crazy_Stick

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Originally posted by worldalpha Instant gratification defines this generation of gamers.

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  There was a time when I would have agreed with you. But the truth is that we are dinosaurs and no longer represent the average person playing or buying games. We all just niche now and the dollars dictate the dance. We were hardcore when it wasn't cool and now the townies all moved into the neighborhood bro and took away what made it geek so they could relate. It's the same old story that's been going on since the barbarians kicked down the gates of Rome and made it their city. It's not instant gratification. It's games rewarding House Mom Molly for her thirty minutes of game time between diaper changing the youngins and cooking supper while those of us who used to make the game life wonder wtf!? It is what it is and we can adapt or go fossil cause them old days aint coming back anymore than a naturally born T-Rex going to sit on your couch.

---

You have a valid point, yes you do. We, each of us still get to make a decision about it though, and mine is this:

 

 

I would rather be a T-Rex and extinct than a Chameleon trying to adapt to world trying to eat me for a snack.

I will stay old school MMO Player rather than adapt to a genre I no longer recognize or agree with.

---

If your goal is to not have an MMORPG to play and enjoy, then that's a perfectly fine way to approach things.

 

Im pretty sure his point was that he feels no mmorpg  is worth playing atm. But you would be shocked how many players just said fck it and moved on.

nariusseldon

Originally posted by Yalexy

It's the world in general. Everyone wants everything instantly these days and this leads to these bad titles being released.

MMOs should require time to build up your characters and they should be aswell more about building relationships with other people.

How is it "bad" for everyone ... if everyone indeed wants instant fun, and games provide that? It would be "bad" for them if MMOs require time, because that is not what players want.

You may want to work on your logic.

What you want to say is "I don't like what is being provided today". We get that. So? The market is not obliged to cater to you. It is a free world. Devs can cater to anyone they want. It is not "bad" if they decide to cater to someone other than you.

And why should MMO require time for anything? It is just a preference. I don't play MMOs (or any other games) to build relationships with anyone.

 

FinalFikus

I think most of the casuals have moved on.

There are other avenues for Themepark gameplay that are closer to it's purest form.  You can get everything but the world sim part of mmorpgs, and its better. Gameplay trumps all when it comes to games.

I think its just evicted hardcores left that are buying game after game trying to get back in. Casuals dont need the hardcore.

 

 

  

 

 

Icewhite

After fifteen years, even the classic hardcore/casual war only generates a half-hearted response from the audience.

The Magic Words are losing their ability to start fistfights. Two decrepit old boxers that stumble into the ring, wobbling and threatening to collapse without their oxygen tanks and intensive care nurses.

[Deleted User]

The user and all related content has been deleted.

ThomasN7

I doubt anyone here can say the mmo genre is going in the right direction. Sure mmos today provide that quick fix but it is not satisfying whatsoever.  It is like eating at McDonalds, you buy it because you were hungry even though you know it taste like crap. You bought it just to satisfy the hunger but it seems that you are still hungry afterwards.The newer mmos today just have no substance to them at all.  I wouldn't care if it took me 5 years to level a character to max level. I would rather have quality instead of recycled crappy theme parks releasing every 2-3 months that saturate the genre.

bcbully

That was the trend in 2008. The last of those games are being released now. Thus all the "resets." The ones who have the money, llike blizz and soe redesigned. The others pumped more into advertising in hopes of big box sales. 

 

Casual friendly mmorpgs are no longer the trend.

Crazy_Stick

Originally posted by ThomasN7
I doubt anyone here can say the mmo genre is going in the right direction. Sure mmos today provide that quick fix but it is not satisfying whatsoever.  It is like eating at McDonalds, you buy it because you were hungry even though you know it taste like crap. You bought it just to satisfy the hunger but it seems that you are still hungry afterwards.The newer mmos today just have no substance to them at all.  I wouldn't care if it took me 5 years to level a character to max level. I would rather have quality instead of recycled crappy theme parks releasing every 2-3 months that saturate the genre.

 

Well, just like after eating at McD's and you get home to take the inevitable big shit that'll follow you're going to go to the forums and dump after a shallow game purchase. Explains so much doesn't it? But everyone is still going to buy it again in a day or two anyway. All repeat and wipe. That's why nothing changes. Dollars and our behavior dictate what they produce and the market loves junk food.

FinalFikus

Originally posted by Mtibbs1989

Originally posted by ThomasN7

Probably one of the biggest reason why mmos fail so hard these days. There is no challenge, everything can be bought from a cash shop nowadays and everything is so simplified so everyone's grandmother can understand how to play. It really is quite laughable what developers think of us as gamers. They think we are so stupid that every time they make a game they need to re-teach us how to play. Really ? Listen up devs, we aren't stupid, we been playing mmos probably a lot longer than most of you out there. You guys lack so much vision on what mmos should be and you only worry about your quarterly earnings.

Since vanilla WoW there hasn't been a mmo that has captured the hearts of gamers. Lotro, Aion, Age of Conan, The Secret World, Warhammer Online, Defiance, Rift, Free Realms, GW2, The Old Republic , Tera and I'm probably missing a few but feel free to add on to some more mmo failures. Guess what all these have in common, they had all had good launches but long term they have failed so miserably. Within 3-6 months just about every mmo I mentioned has had no staying power whatsoever.

Think about that. Developers spend 5-7 years making a theme park mmos just so it can fail 6 months down the road. That is a whole lot of wasted time and 75% of  the time these mmos haven't even made a profit within a 6 month period. Sad isn't it ? 

I think for me personally I am almost done with mmos. I'm waiting for Destiny and The Division to come to console. I'm not sure I want to waste more money on games that have no longevity to them. Quality > quantity.

Yeah, unfortunately the cash cows are also the casual community so anyone who's looking for a more long-term MMO gets the short end of the stick.

Are you insinuating casuals dont "want" a long term MMORPG?

Because that's kind of funny. 

  And the people spending the most money are casuals too?

Even better. I love the self proclaimed hardcore.

Axehilt

Originally posted by worldalpha
Instant gratification defines this generation of gamers.

Gratification is the point of gaming, and there's rarely a good reason to hide the gratification from players.  (Being shitty at gratification is actually why early MMORPGs did so poorly.)

Meanwhile games can be casual-friendly and still challenging.  They just need to offer the right difficulty options.

ray12k

Originally posted by nariusseldon

Originally posted by Yalexy

It's the world in general. Everyone wants everything instantly these days and this leads to these bad titles being released.

MMOs should require time to build up your characters and they should be aswell more about building relationships with other people.

How is it "bad" for everyone ... if everyone indeed wants instant fun, and games provide that? It would be "bad" for them if MMOs require time, because that is not what players want.

You may want to work on your logic.

What you want to say is "I don't like what is being provided today". We get that. So? The market is not obliged to cater to you. It is a free world. Devs can cater to anyone they want. It is not "bad" if they decide to cater to someone other than you.

And why should MMO require time for anything? It is just a preference. I don't play MMOs (or any other games) to build relationships with anyone.

 

Then play a single player rpg... 

Gdemami

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Originally posted by nariusseldon

How is it "bad" for everyone ... if everyone indeed wants instant fun, and games provide that? It would be "bad" for them if MMOs require time, because that is not what players want.You may want to work on your logic.What you want to say is "I don't like what is being provided today". We get that. So? The market is not obliged to cater to you. It is a free world. Devs can cater to anyone they want. It is not "bad" if they decide to cater to someone other than you.And why should MMO require time for anything? It is just a preference. I don't play MMOs (or any other games) to build relationships with anyone.

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I guess people like OP won't accept the reality as much as I won't believe there are people denying it...