Ever since the release of WoW the mmorpg has become stagnant and dumbed down. The developers are trying to imitate that kind of success which mostly was a fluke to begin with, byt they don't understand that WoW hold the casual/gear grind genre and player are tired of playing the game game with a different IP and mold.
Too few companies are willing to tinker in uncharted areas and develop unique and innovative games. The player do have a part in this vicious cycle though because too many people still jump at any new title that comes out then quit because the fanbois and developer's spin usually persuade them to try it.
A positive note are more sandbox and innovative games being developed by Indie games via fund raisers,but generally those games are poor. It has lead bigger budget companies such as SOE to target the sandbox market and try to create something unique. Whether or not SOE actually pulls it off it another topic.
Companies should stop striving to try to increase profits and instead work on creating a mmorpg that we've been asking for, for a long time now. Once that happens the cash flow will be generated. They need to realize players want to leave an impact on the game world and be remembered for it. To have meaningful rewards for PVE, PVP, Exploring and the like.
I hope in 5 years or so once sandbox mmorpgs become the mainstream; we'll see the closet to perfect game we've been imagining.
Originally posted by worldalpha Instant gratification defines this generation of gamers.
Gratification is the point of gaming, and there's rarely a good reason to hide the gratification from players. (Being shitty at gratification is actually why early MMORPGs did so poorly.)
Meanwhile games can be casual-friendly and still challenging. They just need to offer the right difficulty options.
Yes gratification is the point. But the genre was based around you building up your character and working for your weapons and gear. It was always a different experience than playing a console game. Their was depth, it took a while to learn the game; you actually explored to find the next area. You met friends along the way because you needed them to progress. the genre has completely changed both styles are gratifying its just sadly only one of those type of games exists anymore. Things took time to accomplish because these are not games that have an ending; working hard for a rare weapon or piece of armor was extremely gratifying. Most importantly it was an honor to be a high level and to get access to high level areas not a right like it is now. The content was the world and not the next cut scene.
How is it "bad" for everyone ... if everyone indeed wants instant fun, and games provide that? It would be "bad" for them if MMOs require time, because that is not what players want.
You may want to work on your logic.
What you want to say is "I don't like what is being provided today". We get that. So? The market is not obliged to cater to you. It is a free world. Devs can cater to anyone they want. It is not "bad" if they decide to cater to someone other than you.
And why should MMO require time for anything? It is just a preference. I don't play MMOs (or any other games) to build relationships with anyone.
I guess people like OP won't accept the reality as much as I won't believe there are people denying it...
The reality is mmorpg are losing players not gaining. while other genres are gaining customers. Most people dont hop on forum and complain, they simply move on.
Theme park mmorpgs have gone the way of nintendo ... while other genres are in the ps4/ x box 1 league...
Are you insinuating casuals dont "want" a long term MMORPG?
Because that's kind of funny.
And the people spending the most money are casuals too?
Even better. I love the self proclaimed hardcore.
That is a great question and deserves its own thread but I am gonna go out on a limb and say no they dont. Casuals are looking for quick fun; doesnt matter if it comes in the form of a generic mmorpg or a console game. No loyalty to any given game just games in general. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that; to each his own.
As for the increase in gaming sales in others genre to many to post google it...
Neither implies that MMOs as a market segment is losing players(money).
Sure, specific titles might lose players but there is also more titles on the market every year thus the market is growing as a whole.
[mod edit] wow's numbers alone cant be replaced even if the market was on the up swing. [mod edit]
What other mmorpg have all these players went to? certainly not the other games loosing subs as well lol... If anything your best case for throwing any doubt in the mix would be they all went to a ftp game...
But as anyone can inform you all the ftp games are ftp because they lost a massive amount of subs since they were release. Well except the asian translated games that threw themselves out their ftp,
In a healthy environment their should be growth but the numbers show that this genre is in bad shape. People as yourself in denial are a part of the problem
You may have a point but your choice of games as examples of failure invalidate your whole post.
AoC or TsW has a good launch? No FC game has a good launch ever. Lotro was gone in 3 to 6 months?! Maybe so if you were born a year ago. I did not played many other games but I personally know ppl who still enjoy Aion or GW2 and they say those games are far from "having no staying power".
Please take some time and read about the games you are calling before some one start making jokes of you.
P.S. If it is just another attempt to say "Vanila WoW or bust" - thats a real fail.
How is that fail ? I bet the majority would agree it has been WoW or bust. Can the genre be great again ? Sure it can but not the path they have chosen.
News flash!!! WoW was the FIRST game to cater to casuals. It's success is why games, including it, have gotten easier and easier.
Oh, and since the vast majority of current MMO players started with WoW, of course they will say WoW or bust. Your argument is flawed.
Originally posted by ray12kWhat other mmorpg have all these players went to?
WoT, LoL, SWTOR, GW2. Naming just 4 specific blockbuster titles, despite the market where WoW players might dissolve into is much larger than that.
Games go F2P because it is simply better revenue model - no entry fee obstruction, higher revenue per cap. All fitting much better competitive market MMO market has become.
And to inform YOU, your arbitrary qualifiers what is considered MMO, "healthy" or "fail" are irrelevant.
League of Legends, probably the most popular online game in the world at this time is also the most complex and deep game in its genre. That's right developers! The most complex MOBA is the most popular.
Lesson: Quit treating people like chumps. If the game is good people will strive to learn it and get better.
WoT, LoL, SWTOR. Naming just 3 specific blockbuster titles, despite the market where WoW players might dissolve into is much larger than that.
Games go F2P because it is simply better revenue model - no entry fee obstruction, higher revenue per cap. All fitting much better competitive market MMO market has become.
And to inform YOU, your arbitrary qualifiers what is considered MMO, "healthy" or "fail" are irrelevant.
WOT and LOL are not mmorpgs. swtor is losing subs as the link I gave you stated. No games go ftp because pwoplw are unwilling to resubscribe. With subscriptions you can budget and manage your revenue on a long term scale. In ftp its like being on call you never know what the revenue will be.
Trust me no one makes a long term game with the ftp game model in mind. FTP have a spike of inflow then it dries up. Like a sugar rush when you eat one of those lolly pops in your mind bubble. FTP has brought nothing to the market, people dl the game play a week delete it.
To inform you numbers dont lie, your simple mindset stuck on trying to be right wont help you here brah. BTW google words before you use them and learn the meaning of arbitrary.
As for the increase in gaming sales in others genre to many to post google it...
Neither implies that MMOs as a market segment is losing players(money).
Sure, specific titles might lose players but there is also more titles on the market every year thus the market is growing as a whole.
[mod edit] wow's numbers alone cant be replaced even if the market was on the up swing. [mod edit]
What other mmorpg have all these players went to? certainly not the other games loosing subs as well lol... If anything your best case for throwing any doubt in the mix would be they all went to a ftp game...
But as anyone can inform you all the ftp games are ftp because they lost a massive amount of subs since they were release. Well except the asian translated games that threw themselves out their ftp,
In a healthy environment their should be growth but the numbers show that this genre is in bad shape. People as yourself in denial are a part of the problem
You're making the invalid assumption that when players leave WOW, they leave the MMO market entirely.
For all the rest of that rather unnecessarily caustic explosion of misinformation, check this out:
There's also some recent Superdata Research that you can "$%#@ google" when you have the time.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Industry insiders have expressed their concern at the way modern MMOs crash after a few months. The effect this has on staff and those thinking of taking up a career in gaming is easy to see.
As for the increase in gaming sales in others genre to many to post google it...
Neither implies that MMOs as a market segment is losing players(money).
Sure, specific titles might lose players but there is also more titles on the market every year thus the market is growing as a whole.
[mod edit] wow's numbers alone cant be replaced even if the market was on the up swing. [mod edit]
What other mmorpg have all these players went to? certainly not the other games loosing subs as well lol... If anything your best case for throwing any doubt in the mix would be they all went to a ftp game...
But as anyone can inform you all the ftp games are ftp because they lost a massive amount of subs since they were release. Well except the asian translated games that threw themselves out their ftp,
In a healthy environment their should be growth but the numbers show that this genre is in bad shape. People as yourself in denial are a part of the problem
You're making the invalid assumption that when players leave WOW, they leave the MMO market entirely.
For all the rest of that rather unnecessarily caustic explosion of misinformation, check this out:
No games go ftp because pwoplw are unwilling to resubscribe. [/b][/quote]
Source? And no, I do not trust your sense lacking, bizarre explanation.
Do you know how many P2P players you will have? No, you don't. You never know but chances are that people will not pay for something they can get otherwise for free.
There is other advantage of F2P model - you can much easier adjust your micro-transaction business. With P2P you are stuck with what you have and any expansion takes long, expensive development process.
There is little reason keeping P2P after initial post-release consolidation, that is only where P2P model does better but on general and log term basis, F2P is superior.
I never mentioned MMORPG, I talked about MMO since that is a much suitable definition for the market segment and trend evaluation.
SWTOR last report was 500k subs + millions in F2P players. GW2 was fastest selling MMO in west. Easy to make up for WoW lost subs.
I find it rather humorous that the OP, despite having 6000+ posts and presumably has read a lot of threads here, has failed to grasp the concept that casual friendly has little to do with challenge. A game can be both casual friendly and challenging. This argument has been proven time and again. Chess is both casual friendly and challenging. Crank up the difficulty on a Civilization game, on Skyrim and you have games that are casual friendly and yet challenging. MMOs can be built the same way, and some are.
So then I ask myself, what is the purpose of the OP's post? Well, I think we know.
No games go ftp because pwoplw are unwilling to resubscribe.
Source? And no, I do not trust your sense lacking explanation.
Do you know how many P2P players you will have? No, you don't. You never know but chances are that people will not pay for something they can get otherwise for free.
There is other advantage of F2P model - you can much easier adjust your micro-transaction business. With F2P you are stuck with what you have. There is little reason going for P2P after initial post-release consolidation, that is only where P2P model does better but on log term basis, F2P is superior.
I never mentioned MMORPG, I talked about MMO since that is a much suitable definition for the market segment and trend evaluation.
SWTOR last report was 500k subs + millions in F2P players. GW2 was fastest selling MMO in west.
And you are right, number don't lie, you do. Provide a source saying that MMO market is in decline, instead of snippets you are unable interpret and put into a context.
Source is every AAAA game ever released. none will or have every been ftp on release. Its a common business practice to insure profits for stock holders and income not just roll the dice.
Again blizzard report sub losses in swtor, If you dont like the numbers contact them. And if you are responding to a mmorpg topic why would you switch stance and say im not talking about a mmorpg i meant mmo? Your a fail man pack up and go rage on the freaken fridge.
Their is know advantage of releasing a ftp game. They are released so people buy ingame items. Most people regret their purchases.
You really have no idea about the real world bub..... now go rage call blizzard...
As for the increase in gaming sales in others genre to many to post google it...
Neither implies that MMOs as a market segment is losing players(money).
Sure, specific titles might lose players but there is also more titles on the market every year thus the market is growing as a whole.
are you retarded? wow's numbers alone cant be replaced even if the market was on the up swing. Maybe in your mind bubble filled with lolly pops and emoting monkeys can the stats be good news.
What other mmorpg have all these players went to? certainly not the other games loosing subs as well lol... If anything your best case for throwing any doubt in the mix would be they all went to a ftp game...
But as anyone can inform you all the ftp games are ftp because they lost a massive amount of subs since they were release. Well except the asian translated games that threw themselves out their ftp,
In a healthy environment their should be growth but the numbers show that this genre is in bad shape. People as yourself in denial are a part of the problem
You're making the invalid assumption that when players leave WOW, they leave the MMO market entirely.
For all the rest of that rather unnecessarily caustic explosion of misinformation, check this out:
There's also some recent Superdata Research that you can "$%#@ google" when you have the time.
I stating a fact.... They are not going to other mmorpgs. they are leaving the market. Even if you go blizzards numbers alone...
Showing revenue of one year for all mmos proves what. We are talking about mmorpg. Frckn call of duty is a mmo.... lol
I've really been getting the impression lately that the MMORPG.com definition of "fact" is "my personal unwavering belief."
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Originally posted by ray12k Source is every AAAA game ever released. none will or have every been ftp. Its a common business practice to insure profits for stock holders and income not just roll the dice.
Your "source" does not imply anything you said, on the contrary - if P2P game makes more money after switching to F2P, it means people are not into P2P.
You probably missed the part where I pointed out that you will never know how many subs your P2P game will have. It is no difference from F2P.
You never know what your profits will be. You can only guess, no assurance there.
Then again, SWTOR and GW2 alone easily make up for most of WoW lost subs.
Originally posted by ray12k Their is know advantage of releasing a ftp game. They are released so people buy ingame items. Most people regret their purchases.
...most people regretting their purchase is another of your "facts"?
Comments
If MMOs are providing entertainment I am looking for, why should I play something else?
Ever since the release of WoW the mmorpg has become stagnant and dumbed down. The developers are trying to imitate that kind of success which mostly was a fluke to begin with, byt they don't understand that WoW hold the casual/gear grind genre and player are tired of playing the game game with a different IP and mold.
Too few companies are willing to tinker in uncharted areas and develop unique and innovative games. The player do have a part in this vicious cycle though because too many people still jump at any new title that comes out then quit because the fanbois and developer's spin usually persuade them to try it.
A positive note are more sandbox and innovative games being developed by Indie games via fund raisers,but generally those games are poor. It has lead bigger budget companies such as SOE to target the sandbox market and try to create something unique. Whether or not SOE actually pulls it off it another topic.
Companies should stop striving to try to increase profits and instead work on creating a mmorpg that we've been asking for, for a long time now. Once that happens the cash flow will be generated. They need to realize players want to leave an impact on the game world and be remembered for it. To have meaningful rewards for PVE, PVP, Exploring and the like.
I hope in 5 years or so once sandbox mmorpgs become the mainstream; we'll see the closet to perfect game we've been imagining.
MurderHerd
Yes gratification is the point. But the genre was based around you building up your character and working for your weapons and gear. It was always a different experience than playing a console game. Their was depth, it took a while to learn the game; you actually explored to find the next area. You met friends along the way because you needed them to progress. the genre has completely changed both styles are gratifying its just sadly only one of those type of games exists anymore. Things took time to accomplish because these are not games that have an ending; working hard for a rare weapon or piece of armor was extremely gratifying. Most importantly it was an honor to be a high level and to get access to high level areas not a right like it is now. The content was the world and not the next cut scene.
So, the OP insults the fans of every game since and ...hmmm ... I don't see where this strategy is going.
The reality is mmorpg are losing players not gaining. while other genres are gaining customers. Most people dont hop on forum and complain, they simply move on.
Theme park mmorpgs have gone the way of nintendo ... while other genres are in the ps4/ x box 1 league...
Erm...source?
That is a great question and deserves its own thread but I am gonna go out on a limb and say no they dont. Casuals are looking for quick fun; doesnt matter if it comes in the form of a generic mmorpg or a console game. No loyalty to any given game just games in general. And there is absolutely nothing wrong with that; to each his own.
[mod edit]
But for the others.
http://mmodata.blogspot.com/
http://lorehound.com/tag/subscription-numbers/
As for the increase in gaming sales in others genre to many to post google it...
Neither implies that MMOs as a market segment is losing players(money).
Sure, specific titles might lose players but there is also more titles on the market every year thus the market is growing as a whole.
[mod edit] wow's numbers alone cant be replaced even if the market was on the up swing. [mod edit]
What other mmorpg have all these players went to? certainly not the other games loosing subs as well lol... If anything your best case for throwing any doubt in the mix would be they all went to a ftp game...
But as anyone can inform you all the ftp games are ftp because they lost a massive amount of subs since they were release. Well except the asian translated games that threw themselves out their ftp,
In a healthy environment their should be growth but the numbers show that this genre is in bad shape. People as yourself in denial are a part of the problem
News flash!!! WoW was the FIRST game to cater to casuals. It's success is why games, including it, have gotten easier and easier.
Oh, and since the vast majority of current MMO players started with WoW, of course they will say WoW or bust. Your argument is flawed.
WoT, LoL, SWTOR, GW2. Naming just 4 specific blockbuster titles, despite the market where WoW players might dissolve into is much larger than that.
Games go F2P because it is simply better revenue model - no entry fee obstruction, higher revenue per cap. All fitting much better competitive market MMO market has become.
And to inform YOU, your arbitrary qualifiers what is considered MMO, "healthy" or "fail" are irrelevant.
EDIT: Added GW2.
Hopefully, developers are paying attention.
League of Legends, probably the most popular online game in the world at this time is also the most complex and deep game in its genre. That's right developers! The most complex MOBA is the most popular.
Lesson: Quit treating people like chumps. If the game is good people will strive to learn it and get better.
MAKE CHALLENGING GAMES NOOOOW.
please?
WOT and LOL are not mmorpgs. swtor is losing subs as the link I gave you stated. No games go ftp because pwoplw are unwilling to resubscribe. With subscriptions you can budget and manage your revenue on a long term scale. In ftp its like being on call you never know what the revenue will be.
Trust me no one makes a long term game with the ftp game model in mind. FTP have a spike of inflow then it dries up. Like a sugar rush when you eat one of those lolly pops in your mind bubble. FTP has brought nothing to the market, people dl the game play a week delete it.
To inform you numbers dont lie, your simple mindset stuck on trying to be right wont help you here brah. BTW google words before you use them and learn the meaning of arbitrary.
You're making the invalid assumption that when players leave WOW, they leave the MMO market entirely.
For all the rest of that rather unnecessarily caustic explosion of misinformation, check this out:
http://info.globalcollect.com/Portals/141744/docs/GlobalCollect_Global_MMO_Games_Market_report_03.pdf
There's also some recent Superdata Research that you can "$%#@ google" when you have the time.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I stating a fact.... They are not going to other mmorpgs. they are leaving the market. Even if you go blizzards numbers alone...
Showing revenue of one year for all mmos proves what. We are talking about mmorpg. Frckn call of duty is a mmo.... lol
[quote]Originally posted by ray12k[/b][/b]
No games go ftp because pwoplw are unwilling to resubscribe. [/b][/quote]
Source? And no, I do not trust your sense lacking, bizarre explanation.
Do you know how many P2P players you will have? No, you don't. You never know but chances are that people will not pay for something they can get otherwise for free.
There is other advantage of F2P model - you can much easier adjust your micro-transaction business. With P2P you are stuck with what you have and any expansion takes long, expensive development process.
There is little reason keeping P2P after initial post-release consolidation, that is only where P2P model does better but on general and log term basis, F2P is superior.
I never mentioned MMORPG, I talked about MMO since that is a much suitable definition for the market segment and trend evaluation.
SWTOR last report was 500k subs + millions in F2P players. GW2 was fastest selling MMO in west. Easy to make up for WoW lost subs.
[mod edit]
I find it rather humorous that the OP, despite having 6000+ posts and presumably has read a lot of threads here, has failed to grasp the concept that casual friendly has little to do with challenge. A game can be both casual friendly and challenging. This argument has been proven time and again. Chess is both casual friendly and challenging. Crank up the difficulty on a Civilization game, on Skyrim and you have games that are casual friendly and yet challenging. MMOs can be built the same way, and some are.
So then I ask myself, what is the purpose of the OP's post? Well, I think we know.
To state a "fact", you need a reliable information source. What is your source?
My computer is better than yours.
Source is every AAAA game ever released. none will or have every been ftp on release. Its a common business practice to insure profits for stock holders and income not just roll the dice.
Again blizzard report sub losses in swtor, If you dont like the numbers contact them. And if you are responding to a mmorpg topic why would you switch stance and say im not talking about a mmorpg i meant mmo? Your a fail man pack up and go rage on the freaken fridge.
Their is know advantage of releasing a ftp game. They are released so people buy ingame items. Most people regret their purchases.
You really have no idea about the real world bub..... now go rage call blizzard...
http://lorehound.com/tag/subscription-numbers/
I've really been getting the impression lately that the MMORPG.com definition of "fact" is "my personal unwavering belief."
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Your "source" does not imply anything you said, on the contrary - if P2P game makes more money after switching to F2P, it means people are not into P2P.
You probably missed the part where I pointed out that you will never know how many subs your P2P game will have. It is no difference from F2P.
You never know what your profits will be. You can only guess, no assurance there.
Then again, SWTOR and GW2 alone easily make up for most of WoW lost subs.
...most people regretting their purchase is another of your "facts"?
There's absolutely no proof on that page saying that those who quit WoW leave the market.
My computer is better than yours.