Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard I wasn't aware you could build your own houses and castles in Assassin's Creed, my bad...
Black Desert seems to not have problems being a sandbox mmo and retaining detailed graphics quality as AC series.
There isn't much sand in that box. Black Desert has player run homes in predetermined locations in specific towns that are instanced. I wouldn't call that a sandbox. It is linear progression quest based just like any other themepark MMO. It also has player sieges based on Factions. Once again not very sandboxy.
Race/Gender Locked classes on top of that.
It has a lot of fun gameplay options, like mounted combat, mini-games, action combat etc. But to label it a sandbox on EQNext's level is just asinine.
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
I think a better example for the "sandboxiness" with "more realistic-looking art" is Archeage. I'd personally refer to Black Desert as sandbox-oriented, like Darkfall/Darkfall 2, but I don't really think anyone differentiates much between "minecraft sandbox" and "salem sandbox" and "darkfall sandbox", as long as they get more sandbox (cowbell?).
Neither it nor Black Desert incorporates software like Storybricks though, either. I guess in late 2014/early 2015 we'll see if more-realistic models matter to the audiences.
Right now we are in a rough stage of game development where we are limited by the network bandwidth, the average processing power a user has in their computer, and the need to have actual humans designing art for us.
Hopefully one day we will reach a day where a basic internet connection is measured in the gigabits per second. That basic PCs come with onboard video cards that rival the GTX titan (and equivalent processing power). And that we design an AI smart enough (that won't murder us) to be able to instantly generate all the art materials we need - or design a neural interface so that artists can create in seconds instead of months.
Until that nirvana is reached, I am willing to accept simpler and perhaps cartoonier artwork so that I can have a world that, with some luck, will be a world and game I can play in for years. At this time with [sarcasm] all the options we have to choose fromrecently [/sarcasm] seems to be a nirvana of it's own.
Neither it nor Black Desert incorporates software like Storybricks though, either. I guess in late 2014/early 2015 we'll see if more-realistic models matter to the audiences.
A storybricks system in mmo's is nothing new, not that i'm not looking forward tom EQN/L
Neither it nor Black Desert incorporates software like Storybricks though, either. I guess in late 2014/early 2015 we'll see if more-realistic models matter to the audiences.
A storybricks system in mmo's is nothing new, not that i'm not looking forward tom EQN/L
Neither it nor Black Desert incorporates software like Storybricks though, either. I guess in late 2014/early 2015 we'll see if more-realistic models matter to the audiences.
A storybricks system in mmo's is nothing new, not that i'm not looking forward tom EQN/L
A storybricks system is new. It's trademarked.
So making up your own rpg quests, designing your own scenarios, designing your own persistent mmo is new?
Neither it nor Black Desert incorporates software like Storybricks though, either. I guess in late 2014/early 2015 we'll see if more-realistic models matter to the audiences.
A storybricks system in mmo's is nothing new, not that i'm not looking forward tom EQN/L
A storybricks system is new. It's trademarked.
So making up your own rpg quests, designing your own scenarios, designing your own persistent mmo is new?
Neither it nor Black Desert incorporates software like Storybricks though, either. I guess in late 2014/early 2015 we'll see if more-realistic models matter to the audiences.
A storybricks system in mmo's is nothing new, not that i'm not looking forward tom EQN/L
A storybricks system is new. It's trademarked.
So making up your own rpg quests, designing your own scenarios, designing your own persistent mmo is new?
And yet not a single one uses voxels that allow you to destroy everything in the world and dig down into the world discovering caverns and much more, has a persistent world with thousands upon thousands of players at a time, and so much more.
Also, do you remember the last time a game used a similar graphics style that was reviled at the announcement but during the release added to the charm and those that still hated it managed to overlook it for the story, gameplay, characters, etc.? It was a little award winning title known asThe Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker.
Neither it nor Black Desert incorporates software like Storybricks though, either. I guess in late 2014/early 2015 we'll see if more-realistic models matter to the audiences.
A storybricks system in mmo's is nothing new, not that i'm not looking forward tom EQN/L
A storybricks system is new. It's trademarked.
So making up your own rpg quests, designing your own scenarios, designing your own persistent mmo is new?
Let's say there are 100 toons in close proximity. Now there are 100 sources of data each participant must render in real time (including AI). That just isn't possible for most gamers' machines as you raise the level of detail, and add particle effects, shaders and ambient lighting... hey let's add more complex animation and see if we can actually make peoples' rigs fizzle and smoke.
On another note, the game you selected, while agreeably pretty, has pretty boring, repetitious gameplay. So you're chosen a graphic-intensive, shallow game and said, "why can't mmos be more like this".
Every mmo I have played since 1998 had repetitious gameplay, doing the same hotbar rotation...123456...123456 on majority of battles. I wish mmos were as fun as Assassins Creed gameplay. Ship Combat, Climbing, parkour, Air Attacks, Pick Pocketing, All sorts of stealth positional attacks, real time ranged combat where you can aim even things like poison darts and smoke bombs, boarding and taking ships for new crew and crafting materials. Have you played Assassins Creed?
Then stop complaining about how you dislike EQN's graphics styles and start playing them! They exist!
Fair cop about SP to MMO's, however the point about planetside 2 is valid latest rounds of optimization for the game have made it very good under load, though personnel experiences do differ.
Even if they just pushed up to near the level of PS2 I think all will agree it would look better, same engine but one looks like a re-rendering of WOW and the other looks well good.
PS2 has pretty minimal customization for character models. That's why it can run FPS battles between 200 people and make it work.
But everquest isnt FPS style gameplay so it doesnt have to sacrifice character models for FPS mechanics like real time bullets and no where near as much particle effects as PS2. And I dont mind if they lower the 2000 player to 1000 player limit per map, 1000 is still a lot.
We don't know how much customization EQ will have. I would be willing to bet it is a lot.
Anyhow, this has been debated a dozen times already. "Cartoony" graphics weather time much better than "realistic" graphics. Your example of AC4 will look pathetic in 5 years, whereas EQNext graphics will still look just as fine, although they are still "cartoony" and that doesn't fit everyone's taste.
Funnily enough, the most popular MMO of all times has "cartoony" graphics. Coincidence?
Not just MMOs, but some of the most popular games have cartoony or stylized graphics (e.g. Wind Waker and Okami).
Neither it nor Black Desert incorporates software like Storybricks though, either. I guess in late 2014/early 2015 we'll see if more-realistic models matter to the audiences.
A storybricks system in mmo's is nothing new, not that i'm not looking forward tom EQN/L
A storybricks system is new. It's trademarked.
So making up your own rpg quests, designing your own scenarios, designing your own persistent mmo is new?
Mobs and npc that travel around the world or only appear at certain times is not new. Plants that can only be found at certain time in the seasons is not new. Animal that travel around in heards and migrate following the seasons is not new.
Check out Ryzom AI system.
In fact the AI you claim to be new is not new.
I'm an EQ vet but don't let the buzz words and hype cloud you, these things are not new.
Fair cop about SP to MMO's, however the point about planetside 2 is valid latest rounds of optimization for the game have made it very good under load, though personnel experiences do differ.
Even if they just pushed up to near the level of PS2 I think all will agree it would look better, same engine but one looks like a re-rendering of WOW and the other looks well good.
PS2 has pretty minimal customization for character models. That's why it can run FPS battles between 200 people and make it work.
But everquest isnt FPS style gameplay so it doesnt have to sacrifice character models for FPS mechanics like real time bullets and no where near as much particle effects as PS2. And I dont mind if they lower the 2000 player to 1000 player limit per map, 1000 is still a lot.
We don't know how much customization EQ will have. I would be willing to bet it is a lot.
Anyhow, this has been debated a dozen times already. "Cartoony" graphics weather time much better than "realistic" graphics. Your example of AC4 will look pathetic in 5 years, whereas EQNext graphics will still look just as fine, although they are still "cartoony" and that doesn't fit everyone's taste.
Funnily enough, the most popular MMO of all times has "cartoony" graphics. Coincidence?
WoW is like an anomaly, it came out at the right time and instead of doing anything new they played it safe and improved upon what EQ and other mmos did before it. It also made the mmo genre very easy for none gamers and none mmo gamers to get into. And for its time all those things were good in terms of gameplay and graphics. Back then I could understand the cartoony graphics as most games that went for more realism looked bad anyway. But these are different times and realistic graphics really do look realistic and would look awsome even 5-10 years from it. Assassins Creed 4 would still look great to me 5 years from now because it doesnt have blocky body parts and bland textures like the games of early 2000s that attempted realism.
It was never the graphics that made WoW great to players, other than maybe working on standard PCs on lowest settings. But these days I see a lot of average PCs with nvidia and amd cards in them with multi-core cpus and at least 4 gigs of ram.
Ill bet if Rockstar made a full blown mmo of GTA it would retain much of its graphics quality from the single player games and have at least half of a billion active players since theres obviously over a billion fans of GTA fans from GTA5 sales.
Um, there is an MMO of GTA. It was shipped with GTA5 and has the same graphics, but is far more limited than you think.
EQN is voxel based, so its visual limitations is even greater than general mmos, be glad it doesn't look like CubeWorld or Trove.
Voxel tech is a massive leap forward in both development speed, cost and manpower usage that also allows for player made content. It's a new start for the mmo genre, so yes, get used to 8-bit or 16-bit art styles, which seems appropriate somehow, but at least you have this one AAA developer pushing the tech to allow this graphical level.
Voxel tech has been around for ages, don't fall for the SOE buzz word.
But to the OP, This is how MMO should look in 2013.
Yes voxel tech has been around, but it has always been for small portions of the game, limited to selected destructible objects that always explode the same way. What SOE is doing is the next stage in voxel tech: an entire game where everything is a voxel that can be destroyed any number of ways.
You simply can't have an entire world made of voxels with graphics like the ones you linked (yet anyway).
But yes, judge a game solely on graphics and not on anything else.
Neither it nor Black Desert incorporates software like Storybricks though, either. I guess in late 2014/early 2015 we'll see if more-realistic models matter to the audiences.
A storybricks system in mmo's is nothing new, not that i'm not looking forward tom EQN/L
A storybricks system is new. It's trademarked.
So making up your own rpg quests, designing your own scenarios, designing your own persistent mmo is new?
Mobs and npc that travel around the world or only appear at certain times is not new. Plants that can only be found at certain time in the seasons is not new. Animal that travel around in heards and migrate following the seasons is not new.
Check out Ryzom AI system.
In fact the AI you claim to be new is not new.
I'm an EQ vet but don't let the buzz words and hype cloud you, these things are not new.
I feel you're generalizing. Going further we can say city of heroes had player-made content, as does EQ2.
I have no evidence to show this is "better" right now; only my direct quote two games, contributory to the original topic, don't have it. So ok, if you want to be right, you can be right.
Originally posted by Jean-Luc_Picard I wasn't aware you could build your own houses and castles in Assassin's Creed, my bad...
Black Desert seems to not have problems being a sandbox mmo and retaining detailed graphics quality as AC series.
There isn't much sand in that box. Black Desert has player run homes in predetermined locations in specific towns that are instanced. I wouldn't call that a sandbox. It is linear progression quest based just like any other themepark MMO. It also has player sieges based on Factions. Once again not very sandboxy.
Race/Gender Locked classes on top of that.
It has a lot of fun gameplay options, like mounted combat, mini-games, action combat etc. But to label it a sandbox on EQNext's level is just asinine.
Comments
Black Desert seems to not have problems being a sandbox mmo and retaining detailed graphics quality as AC series.
There isn't much sand in that box. Black Desert has player run homes in predetermined locations in specific towns that are instanced. I wouldn't call that a sandbox. It is linear progression quest based just like any other themepark MMO. It also has player sieges based on Factions. Once again not very sandboxy.
Race/Gender Locked classes on top of that.
It has a lot of fun gameplay options, like mounted combat, mini-games, action combat etc. But to label it a sandbox on EQNext's level is just asinine.
"In the immediate future, we have this one, and then weve got another one that is actually going to be so were going to have, what we want to do, is in January, what were targeting to do, this may or may not happen, so you cant hold me to it. But what were targeting to do, is have a fun anniversary to the Ilum shenanigans that happened. An alien race might invade, and they might crash into Ilum and there might be some new activities that happen on the planet." ~Gabe Amatangelo
Sorry, that was actually funny. lol
"My Fantasy is having two men at once...
One Cooking and One Cleaning!"
---------------------------
"A good man can make you feel sexy,
strong and able to take on the whole world...
oh sorry...that's wine...wine does that..."
I think a better example for the "sandboxiness" with "more realistic-looking art" is Archeage. I'd personally refer to Black Desert as sandbox-oriented, like Darkfall/Darkfall 2, but I don't really think anyone differentiates much between "minecraft sandbox" and "salem sandbox" and "darkfall sandbox", as long as they get more sandbox (cowbell?).
Neither it nor Black Desert incorporates software like Storybricks though, either. I guess in late 2014/early 2015 we'll see if more-realistic models matter to the audiences.
Actually, you didn't say "2013 Games". Your topic and post is directed at SoE and EQnext specifically based on what we all are seeing.
If you want to specifically target 2013 games, say so. Hope it helps.
"My Fantasy is having two men at once...
One Cooking and One Cleaning!"
---------------------------
"A good man can make you feel sexy,
strong and able to take on the whole world...
oh sorry...that's wine...wine does that..."
Right now we are in a rough stage of game development where we are limited by the network bandwidth, the average processing power a user has in their computer, and the need to have actual humans designing art for us.
Hopefully one day we will reach a day where a basic internet connection is measured in the gigabits per second. That basic PCs come with onboard video cards that rival the GTX titan (and equivalent processing power). And that we design an AI smart enough (that won't murder us) to be able to instantly generate all the art materials we need - or design a neural interface so that artists can create in seconds instead of months.
Until that nirvana is reached, I am willing to accept simpler and perhaps cartoonier artwork so that I can have a world that, with some luck, will be a world and game I can play in for years. At this time with [sarcasm] all the options we have to choose from recently [/sarcasm] seems to be a nirvana of it's own.
A storybricks system in mmo's is nothing new, not that i'm not looking forward tom EQN/L
A storybricks system is new. It's trademarked.
So making up your own rpg quests, designing your own scenarios, designing your own persistent mmo is new?
This...again
Its particular brand of AI engine is, yes.
And what particular AI is that?
hey, I like EQN's graphic style, the more I look at these screenshots the more I want to play it NOW.
Photo-realism is not always in favour of in-game atmosphere in PC games.
And yet not a single one uses voxels that allow you to destroy everything in the world and dig down into the world discovering caverns and much more, has a persistent world with thousands upon thousands of players at a time, and so much more.
Also, do you remember the last time a game used a similar graphics style that was reviled at the announcement but during the release added to the charm and those that still hated it managed to overlook it for the story, gameplay, characters, etc.? It was a little award winning title known asThe Legend of Zelda: Wind Waker.
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
http://eqnwire.com/2013/04/23/storybricks-announces-eqnext-involvement/
Then stop complaining about how you dislike EQN's graphics styles and start playing them! They exist!
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
Yes they should make it exactly like Black Desert...
Not just MMOs, but some of the most popular games have cartoony or stylized graphics (e.g. Wind Waker and Okami).
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
I've given you two chances to bow out of your claim but alas you haven't so i'll show why you are wrong.
Storybrick system in an MMO is not new http://www.ryzom.com/en/mmorpg-rpg-mmo-ryzom_ring.html
Building your own mmo with all the developer tools is not new https://ryzomcore.atlassian.net/wiki/display/RC/Ryzom+Core+Home
Mobs and npc that travel around the world or only appear at certain times is not new. Plants that can only be found at certain time in the seasons is not new. Animal that travel around in heards and migrate following the seasons is not new.
Check out Ryzom AI system.
In fact the AI you claim to be new is not new.
I'm an EQ vet but don't let the buzz words and hype cloud you, these things are not new.
Um, there is an MMO of GTA. It was shipped with GTA5 and has the same graphics, but is far more limited than you think.
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
Yes voxel tech has been around, but it has always been for small portions of the game, limited to selected destructible objects that always explode the same way. What SOE is doing is the next stage in voxel tech: an entire game where everything is a voxel that can be destroyed any number of ways.
You simply can't have an entire world made of voxels with graphics like the ones you linked (yet anyway).
But yes, judge a game solely on graphics and not on anything else.
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
I feel you're generalizing. Going further we can say city of heroes had player-made content, as does EQ2.
I have no evidence to show this is "better" right now; only my direct quote two games, contributory to the original topic, don't have it. So ok, if you want to be right, you can be right.
Awww. I was going to start in on this.
It would be pretty cool to have SP graphics in an MMORPG though. Especially with landscape modification. :-)
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Don't worry, he did that already. Was given a clean bill of occular health.
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
Yikes, post of +1 burning right here folks.
Since when is Tuesday a direction?