Seven years and 3,000 posts into these forums, and the difference between SP and MMO is still a mystery to you?
like I said 2013 games, and that goes for mmos too. Such as these mmos. Hell they did it with Planetside 2
I would like to point you in the direction of WIldstar, TESO, GW2, Neverwinter, Dragon Prophet...oh hell, every MMO that came out in 2013 or will be in early 2014.
Planetside 2...lol.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
EQN is voxel based, so its visual limitations is even greater than general mmos, be glad it doesn't look like CubeWorld or Trove.
Voxel tech is a massive leap forward in both development speed, cost and manpower usage that also allows for player made content. It's a new start for the mmo genre, so yes, get used to 8-bit or 16-bit art styles, which seems appropriate somehow, but at least you have this one AAA developer pushing the tech to allow this graphical level.
But the character models arent voxels. What made me make this thread was looking at the transition from running into vaulting over an obstacle and it did not look right at all.
Have you ever developed a game?
Character animations go thru a process cause blend trees in order to transition between the different forms while moving thru different obstacles. Not all game devs use this process, but more of the next gen ones do in order to create seamless transitions between movement animations
In a single player game it is quite simple to have an ELABORATE blend tree for your character animations, since the data will be processed internally, whereas in an mmo you would have to send ALL THE character animation data over the internet for every single character on your screen at any given moment.
Wait wait wait, if in over 2k+ posts and all these years you still don't get it, maybe I need to simplify it a bit more. Ever wonder why Eve Online doesn't have dogfight flight mechanics? Or why a game like Black Prophecy had it BUT only allowed a small amount of ships within small instances? It's because transferring all the movement data between networks is cumbersome. Hence why those intricate movements in a game like AC4 cannot be implemented in a game where 50+ characters may be on the screen at the sametime.
I'm not saying it is impossible, but no developer has figured it out yet. As technology improves, and processing power does to, just maybe we will be able to compress the data in a more network-friendly packet, until then face it THERE WILL ALWAYS BE MAJOR DIFFERENCES BETWEEN SINGLEPLAYER GAME AND MMOS WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO GAMEPLAY CAPABILITIES AND GRAPHICS.
Wait hold up, you actually compared a game utilizing voxel tech to a game that uses prebaked lightmaps and polygons? :facepalm: You must be young, very young.
Originally posted by zevni78EQN is voxel based, so its visual limitations is even greater than general mmos, be glad it doesn't look like CubeWorld or Trove.Voxel tech is a massive leap forward in both development speed, cost and manpower usage that also allows for player made content. It's a new start for the mmo genre, so yes, get used to 8-bit or 16-bit art styles, which seems appropriate somehow, but at least you have this one AAA developer pushing the tech to allow this graphical level.
But the character models arent voxels. What made me make this thread was looking at the transition from running into vaulting over an obstacle and it did not look right at all.
Character models look pretty damn good to me. But yeah, its always fun to criticize games that are in alpha/ early beta. You must be very Proud. I hope to not see you in game.
They've stated multiple times that they want them to look Disney because it's "necessary" to cater to the lowest common denominator of player.
Your really trying to twist the knife for people that like stylized graphics arnt you?
The knife of the truth can be painful. I rant about stylized and cartoon graphics because the industry is flooded with them due to the stupidity of publishers trying to copy World of Warcraft. It doesn't mean I haven't enjoyed stylized games before and that I won't in the future. But it does mean I'm fucking sick of them at the moment and so are a lot of people.
And people wonder why something like Star Citizen will probably end up at 1 million+ pre-orders before the game is even released? Hyper-realistic and even "basic" realistic are such a starved market right now because publishers genuinely believe that we want this cartoon shit. Unless people speak up they're never going to stop thinking that. It's been 10 years of the same thing and 10 years is enough. [mod edit]
OP has a point. Every video game should be as hyper-realistic as possible. As soon as better tech comes along, every video game should upgrade their engine to be even more realistic.
I just cannot play Angry Birds because it doesn't look realistic enough.
Yeah you have a point. Because Angry Birds was successful, we should make every game just like it! In fact, we have so much penis envy for Angry Birds that we should make it a "rule of the industry" to copy the aesthetics of Angry Birds to every fucking game ever again forever.
Your comment made me think of Wasteland 2's kickstarter video where they humiliate moronic publishers and their sheep customers. Angry Birds is the star of the show, too. What a coincidence? lol
Not every game needs to be exactly the same. There's room for all styles. It makes it much more interesting to be a consumer that way.
Ah we're mostly in agreement then, but it seemed as if you were making a point that Angry Birds was what "worked" while realistic graphics "did not work". Of course Angry Birds worked - it's a great game that I myself play sometimes. Doesn't mean that every god damn game has to be Angry Birds 2.0. In the MMO genre, that's exactly what these publishers think. Hence EQnext.
Originally posted by zevni78EQN is voxel based, so its visual limitations is even greater than general mmos, be glad it doesn't look like CubeWorld or Trove.Voxel tech is a massive leap forward in both development speed, cost and manpower usage that also allows for player made content. It's a new start for the mmo genre, so yes, get used to 8-bit or 16-bit art styles, which seems appropriate somehow, but at least you have this one AAA developer pushing the tech to allow this graphical level.
But the character models arent voxels. What made me make this thread was looking at the transition from running into vaulting over an obstacle and it did not look right at all.
Character models look pretty damn good to me. But yeah, its always fun to criticize games that are in alpha/ early beta. You must be very Proud. I hope to not see you in game.
They've stated multiple times that they want them to look Disney because it's "necessary" to cater to the lowest common denominator of player.
Your really trying to twist the knife for people that like stylized graphics arnt you?
The knife of the truth can be painful. I rant about stylized and cartoon graphics because the industry is flooded with them due to the stupidity of publishers trying to copy World of Warcraft. It doesn't mean I haven't enjoyed stylized games before and that I won't in the future. But it does mean I'm fucking sick of them at the moment and so are a lot of people.
And people wonder why something like Star Citizen will probably end up at 1 million+ pre-orders before the game is even released? Hyper-realistic is and even "basic" realistic are such a starved market right now because publishers genuinely believe that we want this cartoon shit. Unless people speak up they're never going to stop thinking that. It's been 10 years of the same thing and 10 years is enough. [mod edit]
But...the flaw in that argument is maybe people actually like stylized graphics...enough to warrant no change? or...do believe people are handing over their money kicking and screaming?
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Originally posted by zevni78EQN is voxel based, so its visual limitations is even greater than general mmos, be glad it doesn't look like CubeWorld or Trove.Voxel tech is a massive leap forward in both development speed, cost and manpower usage that also allows for player made content. It's a new start for the mmo genre, so yes, get used to 8-bit or 16-bit art styles, which seems appropriate somehow, but at least you have this one AAA developer pushing the tech to allow this graphical level.
But the character models arent voxels. What made me make this thread was looking at the transition from running into vaulting over an obstacle and it did not look right at all.
Character models look pretty damn good to me. But yeah, its always fun to criticize games that are in alpha/ early beta. You must be very Proud. I hope to not see you in game.
They've stated multiple times that they want them to look Disney because it's "necessary" to cater to the lowest common denominator of player.
Your really trying to twist the knife for people that like stylized graphics arnt you?
The knife of the truth can be painful. I rant about stylized and cartoon graphics because the industry is flooded with them due to the stupidity of publishers trying to copy World of Warcraft. It doesn't mean I haven't enjoyed stylized games before and that I won't in the future. But it does mean I'm fucking sick of them at the moment and so are a lot of people.
And people wonder why something like Star Citizen will probably end up at 1 million+ pre-orders before the game is even released? Hyper-realistic is and even "basic" realistic are such a starved market right now because publishers genuinely believe that we want this cartoon shit. Unless people speak up they're never going to stop thinking that. It's been 10 years of the same thing and 10 years is enough. [mod edit]
But...the flaw in that argument is maybe people actually like stylized graphics...enough to warrant no change?
Some people like stylized graphics, even prefer them. Doesn't mean that there isn't a huge population of people wants something realistic and immersive. See Star Citizen for an example - do you think 350,000 people (and growing rapidly) would preorder a game that had "my little pony" graphics and donate 35 million+? No, people want realism. Not everyone, but a huge population. We're not being catered to at all and we're sick of it.
Originally posted by salaciouscrumbs The knife of the truth can be painful. I rant about stylized and cartoon graphics because the industry is flooded with them due to the stupidity of publishers trying to copy World of Warcraft. It doesn't mean I haven't enjoy stylized games before and that I won't in the future. But it does mean I'm fucking sick of them at the moment and so are a lot of people.
And people wonder why something like Star Citizen will probably end up at 1 million+ pre-orders before the game is even released? Hyper-realistic is and even "basic" realistic are such a starved market right now because publishers genuinely believe that we want this cartoon shit. Unless people speak up they're never going to stop thinking that. It's been 10 years of the same thing and 10 years is enough. [mod edit]
It sounds like you really don't like WoW. And it seems to be distorting your perception a little. If you really think about it, WoW didn't invent stylized graphics. And if you really really think about it, for every mmo with stylized graphics, there are at least two going for realism. If you think that something in the minority is too much, then your bias may be impairing your judgement in this particular case.
Originally posted by zevni78EQN is voxel based, so its visual limitations is even greater than general mmos, be glad it doesn't look like CubeWorld or Trove.Voxel tech is a massive leap forward in both development speed, cost and manpower usage that also allows for player made content. It's a new start for the mmo genre, so yes, get used to 8-bit or 16-bit art styles, which seems appropriate somehow, but at least you have this one AAA developer pushing the tech to allow this graphical level.
But the character models arent voxels. What made me make this thread was looking at the transition from running into vaulting over an obstacle and it did not look right at all.
Character models look pretty damn good to me. But yeah, its always fun to criticize games that are in alpha/ early beta. You must be very Proud. I hope to not see you in game.
They've stated multiple times that they want them to look Disney because it's "necessary" to cater to the lowest common denominator of player.
Your really trying to twist the knife for people that like stylized graphics arnt you?
The knife of the truth can be painful. I rant about stylized and cartoon graphics because the industry is flooded with them due to the stupidity of publishers trying to copy World of Warcraft. It doesn't mean I haven't enjoyed stylized games before and that I won't in the future. But it does mean I'm fucking sick of them at the moment and so are a lot of people.And people wonder why something like Star Citizen will probably end up at 1 million+ pre-orders before the game is even released? Hyper-realistic is and even "basic" realistic are such a starved market right now because publishers genuinely believe that we want this cartoon shit. Unless people speak up they're never going to stop thinking that. It's been 10 years of the same thing and 10 years is enough. [mod edit]
But...the flaw in that argument is maybe people actually like stylized graphics...enough to warrant no change?
Some people like stylized graphics, even prefer them. Doesn't mean that there isn't a huge population of people wants something realistic and immersive. See Star Citizen for an example - do you think 350,000 people (and growing rapidly) would preorder a game that had "my little pony" graphics and donate 35 million+? No, people want realism. Not everyone, but a huge population. We're not being catered to at all and we're sick of it.
Right, but what i'm saying is maybe there is 1 million people+ (for example) that would happy and contently buy a stylized game in the current market.
Who do you think the publishers are gona shoot for?
Its not about LCD, its about Supply and demand.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Originally posted by salaciouscrumbs The knife of the truth can be painful. I rant about stylized and cartoon graphics because the industry is flooded with them due to the stupidity of publishers trying to copy World of Warcraft. It doesn't mean I haven't enjoy stylized games before and that I won't in the future. But it does mean I'm fucking sick of them at the moment and so are a lot of people.
And people wonder why something like Star Citizen will probably end up at 1 million+ pre-orders before the game is even released? Hyper-realistic is and even "basic" realistic are such a starved market right now because publishers genuinely believe that we want this cartoon shit. Unless people speak up they're never going to stop thinking that. It's been 10 years of the same thing and 10 years is enough. [mod edit]
It sounds like you really don't like WoW. And it seems to be distorting your perception a little. If you really think about it, WoW didn't invent stylized graphics. And if you really really think about it, for every mmo with stylized graphics, there are at least two going for realism. If you think that something in the minority is too much, then your bias may be impairing your judgement in this particular case.
I enjoyed some time with WoW (not too much), but what I dislike is what the game did to the industry, not the game itself. It really screwed us. Screwed innovation and screwed other paths the industry could have taken. Only now with the advent of crowd-funding are we "allowed" to even have the possibility of something else. Star Citizen is the first, there will be more. Thank God.
You really think that there are 2 realistic MMO's for every stylized? Please tell me your joking. Proof.
OP has a point. Every video game should be as hyper-realistic as possible. As soon as better tech comes along, every video game should upgrade their engine to be even more realistic.
I just cannot play Angry Birds because it doesn't look realistic enough.
Yeah you have a point. Because Angry Birds was successful, we should make every game just like it! In fact, we have so much penis envy for Angry Birds that we should make it a "rule of the industry" to copy the aesthetics of Angry Birds to every fucking game ever again forever.
Your comment made me think of Wasteland 2's kickstarter video where they humiliate moronic publishers and their sheep customers. Angry Birds is the star of the show, too. What a coincidence? lol
Not every game needs to be exactly the same. There's room for all styles. It makes it much more interesting to be a consumer that way.
Ah we're mostly in agreement then, but it seemed as if you were making a point that Angry Birds was what "worked" while realistic graphics "did not work". Of course Angry Birds worked - it's a great game that I myself play sometimes. Doesn't mean that every god damn game has to be Angry Birds 2.0. In the MMO genre, that's exactly what these publishers think. Hence EQnext.
Yep, we're on the same page; sorry for the confusing example. I see how it could be taken the wrong way. I was thinking more how a "hyper realistic" Angry Birds would look! UGH!
Game design isn't so different then other forms of commercial art. There are trends in color choices, fonts, layouts and more in the graphic design field. Following along with the dominant trend of the time doesn't make something bad or good alone, but it's those designs that break free that stand out from the rest and become memorable.
Personally speaking, I love when games do take me into a world that I feel could exist: realistic water, moving clouds that don't look copy/pasted, etc. I appreciate that level of detail more then I do something more stylized. I understand the explanation that SOE provides for EQN, but I don't get as excited looking at those screencaps and videos as I do when I look at, say, The Division.
Originally posted by zevni78EQN is voxel based, so its visual limitations is even greater than general mmos, be glad it doesn't look like CubeWorld or Trove.Voxel tech is a massive leap forward in both development speed, cost and manpower usage that also allows for player made content. It's a new start for the mmo genre, so yes, get used to 8-bit or 16-bit art styles, which seems appropriate somehow, but at least you have this one AAA developer pushing the tech to allow this graphical level.
But the character models arent voxels. What made me make this thread was looking at the transition from running into vaulting over an obstacle and it did not look right at all.
Character models look pretty damn good to me. But yeah, its always fun to criticize games that are in alpha/ early beta. You must be very Proud. I hope to not see you in game.
They've stated multiple times that they want them to look Disney because it's "necessary" to cater to the lowest common denominator of player.
Your really trying to twist the knife for people that like stylized graphics arnt you?
The knife of the truth can be painful. I rant about stylized and cartoon graphics because the industry is flooded with them due to the stupidity of publishers trying to copy World of Warcraft. It doesn't mean I haven't enjoyed stylized games before and that I won't in the future. But it does mean I'm fucking sick of them at the moment and so are a lot of people.And people wonder why something like Star Citizen will probably end up at 1 million+ pre-orders before the game is even released? Hyper-realistic is and even "basic" realistic are such a starved market right now because publishers genuinely believe that we want this cartoon shit. Unless people speak up they're never going to stop thinking that. It's been 10 years of the same thing and 10 years is enough. [mod edit]
But...the flaw in that argument is maybe people actually like stylized graphics...enough to warrant no change?
Some people like stylized graphics, even prefer them. Doesn't mean that there isn't a huge population of people wants something realistic and immersive. See Star Citizen for an example - do you think 350,000 people (and growing rapidly) would preorder a game that had "my little pony" graphics and donate 35 million+? No, people want realism. Not everyone, but a huge population. We're not being catered to at all and we're sick of it.
Right, but what i'm saying is maybe there is 1 million people+ (for example) that would happy and contently buy a stylized game in the current market.
Who do you think the publishers are gona shoot for?
Its not about LCD, its about Supply and demand.
That's a good point. It's not supply and demand, however. It's greed. Because where demand occurs, supply should always be met when possible, right? That's basic economics. The problem is these publishers don't follow basic economics. They're gamblers. Dirty f-ing gamblers who think that they can recreate WoW 2.0 financial success by copying the same damn themes over and over again. And when they fail, they immediately turn to cash-shops to recover their losses. So it's even worse than gambling, it's gambling with an insurance policy. Meaning the cycle NEVER has to end. YUCK.
P.S. The only thing that's thus far been able to knock these publishers heads around is kickstarter. Hopefully the changes will come sooner than later. And honestly, does anyone on here think that EQnext would not do substantially better with realistic character graphics vs cartoon graphics? Is anyone honestly complaining that more games need stylized shit right now? And don't give me that "it's necessary for performance crap", because it's not. It's not necessary to draw a woman's hips to look like an inhuman Gazelle in order to meet performance requirements, or to make your Kerran's look like Tony the Tiger.
See this excellent video for reference for everything that is wrong with this kind of stylized shit. You'll probably get a laugh out of it as well. If you think that adults who enjoy games like this are 100% right in the head then you've probably got some issues to work out yourself.
See this excellent video for reference for everything that is wrong with this kind of stylized shit. You'll probably get a laugh out of it as well. If you think that adults who enjoy games like this are 100% right in the head then you've probably got some issues to work out yourself.
See this excellent video for reference for everything that is wrong with this kind of stylized shit. You'll probably get a laugh out of it as well. If you think that adults who enjoy games like this are 100% right in the head then you've probably got some issues to work out yourself.
Actually i would call TERA on the scale of realistic-stylizied more to realistic.
If you want to pinpoint the problem its the playerbase like these comentators in your video, not the artistic style
You're telling me this shit is even remotely realistic?[mod edit]
You have to be joking. Maybe we're not talking about the same game that I linked.
And still publishers wonder why no one plays this kind of junk.
And here you are wrong. Look at the humans, they have the realistic look you want. What you post is another race and not little humans. They have to look different. Thats not stylization.
See this excellent video for reference for everything that is wrong with this kind of stylized shit. You'll probably get a laugh out of it as well. If you think that adults who enjoy games like this are 100% right in the head then you've probably got some issues to work out yourself.
Actually i would call TERA on the scale of realistic-stylizied more to realistic.
If you want to pinpoint the problem its the playerbase like these comentators in your video, not the artistic style
You're telling me this shit is even remotely realistic?[mod edit]
You have to be joking. Maybe we're not talking about the same game that I linked.
And still publishers wonder why no one plays this kind of junk.
And here you are wrong. Look at the humans, they have the realistic look you want. What you post is another race and not little humans. They have to look different. Thats not stylization.
Looks like I'm getting some mod edits so I'll tone down the language.
Ah ok the human is better. But let's take a look at the proportions. The Axe head is bigger than the entire humans upper body. The guys hands are the size of his head. The pauldron's are X2 the size of his head. Is that really necessary? This "heroic" thing comes from World of Warcraft. I don't feel "heroic" at all playing as that character. I feel like a moron. Why am I wearing armor that's way to big for me? How can I possibly carry this axe when it must weigh as much as my own body-weight? Though this isn't anime, there's still not much that's realistic about it.
Well, the guy's face is realistic looking. His head just needs another body.
Well, the guy's face is realistic looking. His head just needs another body.
Is that hair gel period?
Eek. What the hell am I doing in a realistic vs cartoony thread? Run away! Run away!
Lol good catch.
it's sad to say that the bar for realism has been set so low for people that a toon with hair gel and shoulderpads the size of my torso can be considered "somewhat realistic" in a fantasy environment. I have no idea what female toons with legs comparable to that of a small giraffe would be considered on the scale of realism.
Why do I have this odd feeling that the OP has long, existential discussions about apples and oranges and how very, very similar they are? I mean, they're both fruit, right? SAME THING! /sarcasm
Seven years and 3,000 posts into these forums, and the difference between SP and MMO is still a mystery to you?
Thread should not have gone past this.
Yes because after seven years we are still relegated to World of Warcraft level graphics for an online MMO?
Damn, actually I must concede that you're right. That's really sad, too, because it means that this game I was looking forward too called Star Citizen won't be multi-player after all then. Geeze, I'll write a letter to Chris Roberts explaining that some MMO forum goers said that we can't have nice things in 2013 because our computers can't handle anything above Angry-Birds level graphics. Bummer. Thanks so much for the informative single sentence explanations that you both graciously gave us regarding what's possible for an online game in 2013. Thank you.
Seven years and 3,000 posts into these forums, and the difference between SP and MMO is still a mystery to you?
Thread should not have gone past this.
Yes because after seven years we are still relegated to World of Warcraft level graphics for an online MMO?
Damn, actually I must concede that you're right. That's really sad, too, because it means that this game I was looking forward too called Star Citizen won't be multi-player after all then. Geeze, I'll write a letter to Chris Roberts explaining that some MMO forum goers said that we can't have nice things in 2013 because our computers can't handle anything above Angry-Birds level graphics. Bummer. Thanks so much for the informative single sentence explanations that you both graciously gave us regarding what's possible for an online game in 2013. Thank you.
People like you are why these folks are getting OUT of the mmo market in droves. You demand these ultra realistic graphics that only a smattering of computers can handle in large raid or pvp environments, and even as the computers catch up over the years, the toll ultra realistic graphics takes on the look of a game are dire. Ask Age of Conan players how bad their game looks now. Or EQ2. Or any other number of games that went the ultra realistic look at launch and ended up looking like trash 3 years later. Then you, the same person who demanded these over the top graphics, will demand NEW over the top graphics, taking time from the developers for actual content. There is a reason that games go with the style they go with. Making a game for people who only have top of the line gaming rigs limits your audience.
Definitely, screw EQ:N. I'll just buy Destiny and go and create my own personal castle, with its towers, its gardens, its court, its river under the bridge, and design fully custom interiors with any placeables and craftables there, since that's a proper game with proper graphics.
Oh wait.
My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.
Seven years and 3,000 posts into these forums, and the difference between SP and MMO is still a mystery to you?
Thread should not have gone past this.
Yes because after seven years we are still relegated to World of Warcraft level graphics for an online MMO?
Damn, actually I must concede that you're right. That's really sad, too, because it means that this game I was looking forward too called Star Citizen won't be multi-player after all then. Geeze, I'll write a letter to Chris Roberts explaining that some MMO forum goers said that we can't have nice things in 2013 because our computers can't handle anything above Angry-Birds level graphics. Bummer. Thanks so much for the informative single sentence explanations that you both graciously gave us regarding what's possible for an online game in 2013. Thank you.
You suggest you can keep a straight face saying all new and future mmos have Wow graphics?
Exaggerating to those extremes does not help make a point. Everyone also seems to be lumping all mmos into the same category. Is it heavily instanced? Does it have a seamless world? How many players are supported on screen at the same time? Is it an rvr game? Does the game support building systems? Does Wow poly count and texture detail really compare to new games or are people making highly exaggerated and speculative statements? Does it have detailed environments? Is it a space game (seeing how space is mostly empty and last I heard there isn't grass and trees in space)? How fast is content expected to be added? How many people are working on the game? What is the budget? Did they make their own engine or buy/lease one?
Countless elements factor into how a mmo looks. Some of the responses here frankly sound like they are coming from simpletons.
Comments
I would like to point you in the direction of WIldstar, TESO, GW2, Neverwinter, Dragon Prophet...oh hell, every MMO that came out in 2013 or will be in early 2014.
Planetside 2...lol.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Have you ever developed a game?
Character animations go thru a process cause blend trees in order to transition between the different forms while moving thru different obstacles. Not all game devs use this process, but more of the next gen ones do in order to create seamless transitions between movement animations
In a single player game it is quite simple to have an ELABORATE blend tree for your character animations, since the data will be processed internally, whereas in an mmo you would have to send ALL THE character animation data over the internet for every single character on your screen at any given moment.
Wait wait wait, if in over 2k+ posts and all these years you still don't get it, maybe I need to simplify it a bit more. Ever wonder why Eve Online doesn't have dogfight flight mechanics? Or why a game like Black Prophecy had it BUT only allowed a small amount of ships within small instances? It's because transferring all the movement data between networks is cumbersome. Hence why those intricate movements in a game like AC4 cannot be implemented in a game where 50+ characters may be on the screen at the sametime.
I'm not saying it is impossible, but no developer has figured it out yet. As technology improves, and processing power does to, just maybe we will be able to compress the data in a more network-friendly packet, until then face it THERE WILL ALWAYS BE MAJOR DIFFERENCES BETWEEN SINGLEPLAYER GAME AND MMOS WHEN IT COMES DOWN TO GAMEPLAY CAPABILITIES AND GRAPHICS.
Wait hold up, you actually compared a game utilizing voxel tech to a game that uses prebaked lightmaps and polygons? :facepalm: You must be young, very young.
The knife of the truth can be painful. I rant about stylized and cartoon graphics because the industry is flooded with them due to the stupidity of publishers trying to copy World of Warcraft. It doesn't mean I haven't enjoyed stylized games before and that I won't in the future. But it does mean I'm fucking sick of them at the moment and so are a lot of people.
And people wonder why something like Star Citizen will probably end up at 1 million+ pre-orders before the game is even released? Hyper-realistic and even "basic" realistic are such a starved market right now because publishers genuinely believe that we want this cartoon shit. Unless people speak up they're never going to stop thinking that. It's been 10 years of the same thing and 10 years is enough. [mod edit]
Ah we're mostly in agreement then, but it seemed as if you were making a point that Angry Birds was what "worked" while realistic graphics "did not work". Of course Angry Birds worked - it's a great game that I myself play sometimes. Doesn't mean that every god damn game has to be Angry Birds 2.0. In the MMO genre, that's exactly what these publishers think. Hence EQnext.
But...the flaw in that argument is maybe people actually like stylized graphics...enough to warrant no change? or...do believe people are handing over their money kicking and screaming?
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
Some people like stylized graphics, even prefer them. Doesn't mean that there isn't a huge population of people wants something realistic and immersive. See Star Citizen for an example - do you think 350,000 people (and growing rapidly) would preorder a game that had "my little pony" graphics and donate 35 million+? No, people want realism. Not everyone, but a huge population. We're not being catered to at all and we're sick of it.
It sounds like you really don't like WoW. And it seems to be distorting your perception a little. If you really think about it, WoW didn't invent stylized graphics. And if you really really think about it, for every mmo with stylized graphics, there are at least two going for realism. If you think that something in the minority is too much, then your bias may be impairing your judgement in this particular case.
actually the division is supposed to be an MMO...
"Happiness is not a destination. It is a method of life."
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Right, but what i'm saying is maybe there is 1 million people+ (for example) that would happy and contently buy a stylized game in the current market.
Who do you think the publishers are gona shoot for?
Its not about LCD, its about Supply and demand.
TSW - AoC - Aion - WOW - EVE - Fallen Earth - Co - Rift - || XNA C# Java Development
I enjoyed some time with WoW (not too much), but what I dislike is what the game did to the industry, not the game itself. It really screwed us. Screwed innovation and screwed other paths the industry could have taken. Only now with the advent of crowd-funding are we "allowed" to even have the possibility of something else. Star Citizen is the first, there will be more. Thank God.
You really think that there are 2 realistic MMO's for every stylized? Please tell me your joking. Proof.
Yep, we're on the same page; sorry for the confusing example. I see how it could be taken the wrong way. I was thinking more how a "hyper realistic" Angry Birds would look! UGH!
Game design isn't so different then other forms of commercial art. There are trends in color choices, fonts, layouts and more in the graphic design field. Following along with the dominant trend of the time doesn't make something bad or good alone, but it's those designs that break free that stand out from the rest and become memorable.
Personally speaking, I love when games do take me into a world that I feel could exist: realistic water, moving clouds that don't look copy/pasted, etc. I appreciate that level of detail more then I do something more stylized. I understand the explanation that SOE provides for EQN, but I don't get as excited looking at those screencaps and videos as I do when I look at, say, The Division.
That's a good point. It's not supply and demand, however. It's greed. Because where demand occurs, supply should always be met when possible, right? That's basic economics. The problem is these publishers don't follow basic economics. They're gamblers. Dirty f-ing gamblers who think that they can recreate WoW 2.0 financial success by copying the same damn themes over and over again. And when they fail, they immediately turn to cash-shops to recover their losses. So it's even worse than gambling, it's gambling with an insurance policy. Meaning the cycle NEVER has to end. YUCK.
P.S. The only thing that's thus far been able to knock these publishers heads around is kickstarter. Hopefully the changes will come sooner than later. And honestly, does anyone on here think that EQnext would not do substantially better with realistic character graphics vs cartoon graphics? Is anyone honestly complaining that more games need stylized shit right now? And don't give me that "it's necessary for performance crap", because it's not. It's not necessary to draw a woman's hips to look like an inhuman Gazelle in order to meet performance requirements, or to make your Kerran's look like Tony the Tiger.
Actually i would call TERA on the scale of realistic-stylizied more to realistic.
If you want to pinpoint the problem its the playerbase like these comentators in your video, not the artistic style
You're telling me this shit is even remotely realistic? [mod edit]
You have to be joking. Maybe we're not talking about the same game that I linked.
And still publishers wonder why no one plays this kind of junk.
And here you are wrong. Look at the humans, they have the realistic look you want. What you post is another race and not little humans. They have to look different. Thats not stylization.
Looks like I'm getting some mod edits so I'll tone down the language.
Ah ok the human is better. But let's take a look at the proportions. The Axe head is bigger than the entire humans upper body. The guys hands are the size of his head. The pauldron's are X2 the size of his head. Is that really necessary? This "heroic" thing comes from World of Warcraft. I don't feel "heroic" at all playing as that character. I feel like a moron. Why am I wearing armor that's way to big for me? How can I possibly carry this axe when it must weigh as much as my own body-weight? Though this isn't anime, there's still not much that's realistic about it.
Well, the guy's face is realistic looking. His head just needs another body.
Is that hair gel period?
Eek. What the hell am I doing in a realistic vs cartoony thread? Run away! Run away!
Whoa - whoa - whoa! EQN is voxel based? Are you sure?
If this were true, I'm sure I would have seen something about this from their hype machine ( aka: fanboy forum posters).
Lol good catch.
it's sad to say that the bar for realism has been set so low for people that a toon with hair gel and shoulderpads the size of my torso can be considered "somewhat realistic" in a fantasy environment. I have no idea what female toons with legs comparable to that of a small giraffe would be considered on the scale of realism.
Thread should not have gone past this.
You stay sassy!
Yes because after seven years we are still relegated to World of Warcraft level graphics for an online MMO?
Damn, actually I must concede that you're right. That's really sad, too, because it means that this game I was looking forward too called Star Citizen won't be multi-player after all then. Geeze, I'll write a letter to Chris Roberts explaining that some MMO forum goers said that we can't have nice things in 2013 because our computers can't handle anything above Angry-Birds level graphics. Bummer. Thanks so much for the informative single sentence explanations that you both graciously gave us regarding what's possible for an online game in 2013. Thank you.
People like you are why these folks are getting OUT of the mmo market in droves. You demand these ultra realistic graphics that only a smattering of computers can handle in large raid or pvp environments, and even as the computers catch up over the years, the toll ultra realistic graphics takes on the look of a game are dire. Ask Age of Conan players how bad their game looks now. Or EQ2. Or any other number of games that went the ultra realistic look at launch and ended up looking like trash 3 years later. Then you, the same person who demanded these over the top graphics, will demand NEW over the top graphics, taking time from the developers for actual content. There is a reason that games go with the style they go with. Making a game for people who only have top of the line gaming rigs limits your audience.
Definitely, screw EQ:N. I'll just buy Destiny and go and create my own personal castle, with its towers, its gardens, its court, its river under the bridge, and design fully custom interiors with any placeables and craftables there, since that's a proper game with proper graphics.
Oh wait.
My opinion is my own. I respect all other opinions and views equally, but keep in mind that my opinion will always be the best for me. That's why it's my opinion.
You suggest you can keep a straight face saying all new and future mmos have Wow graphics?
Exaggerating to those extremes does not help make a point. Everyone also seems to be lumping all mmos into the same category. Is it heavily instanced? Does it have a seamless world? How many players are supported on screen at the same time? Is it an rvr game? Does the game support building systems? Does Wow poly count and texture detail really compare to new games or are people making highly exaggerated and speculative statements? Does it have detailed environments? Is it a space game (seeing how space is mostly empty and last I heard there isn't grass and trees in space)? How fast is content expected to be added? How many people are working on the game? What is the budget? Did they make their own engine or buy/lease one?
Countless elements factor into how a mmo looks. Some of the responses here frankly sound like they are coming from simpletons.
You stay sassy!