That's a good point. It's not supply and demand, however. It's greed. Because where demand occurs, supply should always be met when possible, right? That's basic economics. The problem is these publishers don't follow basic economics. They're gamblers. Dirty f-ing gamblers who think that they can recreate WoW 2.0 financial success by copying the same damn themes over and over again. And when they fail, they immediately turn to cash-shops to recover their losses. So it's even worse than gambling, it's gambling with an insurance policy. Meaning the cycle NEVER has to end. YUCK.
P.S. The only thing that's thus far been able to knock these publishers heads around is kickstarter. Hopefully the changes will come sooner than later. And honestly, does anyone on here think that EQnext would not do substantially better with realistic character graphics vs cartoon graphics? Is anyone honestly complaining that more games need stylized shit right now? And don't give me that "it's necessary for performance crap", because it's not. It's not necessary to draw a woman's hips to look like an inhuman Gazelle in order to meet performance requirements, or to make your Kerran's look like Tony the Tiger.
I don't believe it would do better. Games like Bless, Black Desert, TESO, and Star Citizen look very blah to me. I liked cartoony/stylized graphics in EQ (before WoW, what?) and I still like them almost 15 years later.
I've yet to see a non-Asian themed fantasy game do realistic graphics properly, not that I think Bless/BD look very realistic either. Certain cut scenes look pretty, but not actual gameplay. TESO looks as lifeless as it gets with all the bland colors and dead eyed characters. Star Citizen looks pretty if you like sci-fi, everything is perfectly smooth and shiny without any real life or texture, but not my cup of tea.
The EQ franchise has always been stylized, not surprising they've had Rosie there for quite a while. Her art direction has progressed over the years, but stays true to her style.
While models are not voxel based, it sure would look strange having hyper realistic characters in a voxel based world such as EQN's. So far, humans look fairly "realistic" and while the specific Kerran face is a little wonky, the body overall looks great and there will be multiple cat types and customization.
If you don't like EQ, WoW, or other stylized games, then obviously EQN isn't for you or others like you. Go invest in Star Citizen and have constructive conversations on their boards. Why people continue to complain about a fundamental part of a game is beyond me. Game isn't even in open Alpha yet and graphics look better then released games. Live stream today had some decent gameplay and it is easy to see how voxels and the character models go together perfectly.
Voxels, stylized graphics, SOEmote, Heroic gameplay, and a vibrant world are going to make EQN into a great game. You enjoy playing Mass Effect er I mean Star Citizen and looking at empty space, asteroids and shiny spaceships, I'll actually be playing in a game world brought to life.
Edit: Just realized your the "don't get your hopes" up person and that you've been going on about graphic since the reveal. Oh well. Good luck to you, but sometimes you have to just accept what is given. Great thing about choices, you can choose to not play EQN if you don't want to. Sorry you got your hopes up and the reveal in Aug crushed your dreams.
That's a good point. It's not supply and demand, however. It's greed. Because where demand occurs, supply should always be met when possible, right? That's basic economics. The problem is these publishers don't follow basic economics. They're gamblers. Dirty f-ing gamblers who think that they can recreate WoW 2.0 financial success by copying the same damn themes over and over again. And when they fail, they immediately turn to cash-shops to recover their losses. So it's even worse than gambling, it's gambling with an insurance policy. Meaning the cycle NEVER has to end. YUCK.
You're right about the greed, or you could say profits which is why people start and operate a business. It's not the graphics being copied from WoW that's been the problem leading to what you described, it's been the gameplay. In that regard EQN and Landmark are vastly different than WoW, not even the same type of MMO. SoE is trying to stop the "cycle".
P.S. The only thing that's thus far been able to knock these publishers heads around is kickstarter. Hopefully the changes will come sooner than later. And honestly, does anyone on here think that EQnext would not do substantially better with realistic character graphics vs cartoon graphics? Is anyone honestly complaining that more games need stylized shit right now? And don't give me that "it's necessary for performance crap", because it's not. It's not necessary to draw a woman's hips to look like an inhuman Gazelle in order to meet performance requirements, or to make your Kerran's look like Tony the Tiger.
I'm not going to go into the performance aspect because it's been said over and over why, you know already. In regards to this question above no, I don't think EQN would do better with realistic graphics. We on this site are not the majority of MMO players. There is a reason why the highest grossing MMO and MOBA is WoW and LoL. Realistic graphics have a much shorter shelf life than stylized and often look very dull. Some might play EQN for a few years and stop to move to another title but SoE will still need to run it long term. They were smart enough to see how 15 years down the road those realistic graphics would look pretty drab, five years more likely. You speak above about companies gambling and then give SoE grief for making smart long term decisions .
-while alternating between EVE-Online and Albion Online- yes, graphics are so important to the depth of a game.... christ.... so many spoiled brats that never grew up mentally. Terraria and Starbound sodomize any of the last 3-4 CoD games in both quality and story yet look like they could run on a gods damned Amiga, compute that already people, quality isn't linked to how realistic the tities are.
Originally posted by Dihoru -while alternating between EVE-Online and Albion Online- yes, graphics are so important to the depth of a game.... christ.... so many spoiled brats that never grew up mentally. Terraria and Starbound sodomize any of the last 3-4 CoD games in both quality and story yet look like they could run on a gods damned Amiga, compute that already people, quality isn't linked to how realistic the tities are.
No, but it is one of the things important to a medium that uses gfx to emulate or simulate a world and the action that takes place in that world. If you had the choice of the same game mechanics, but with the gfx/art you prefer, which would you pick? In todays tech, it shouldn't have to be a choice between quality grx or quality gameplay. We should expect both.
I do see what you are saying. The Star Wars prequels proved that better special effects don't make for a quality movie, but on the flip side, movies like the Avengers would've been terrible without modern effects.
Just my pence worth but MMO's have to cater for a larger range of pc levels since they want as many people to play their game as possible. You can even use Planetside 2's attempt to get their game running better on lower end machines as an example.
Graphics are nice but Gameplay and Story are the real winners and the things that keep people playing. If this wasn't the case there would be no people playing games like MUDS, Legend of Mir, Runescape, Lineage, RO, etc, etc
-------------------------------------------- I see the Past, I see the Present, I see the Future, I see All.
Originally posted by Dihoru -while alternating between EVE-Online and Albion Online- yes, graphics are so important to the depth of a game.... christ.... so many spoiled brats that never grew up mentally. Terraria and Starbound sodomize any of the last 3-4 CoD games in both quality and story yet look like they could run on a gods damned Amiga, compute that already people, quality isn't linked to how realistic the tities are.
No, but it is one of the things important to a medium that uses gfx to emulate or simulate a world and the action that takes place in that world. If you had the choice of the same game mechanics, but with the gfx/art you prefer, which would you pick? In todays tech, it shouldn't have to be a choice between quality grx or quality gameplay. We should expect both.
I do see what you are saying. The Star Wars prequels proved that better special effects don't make for a quality movie, but on the flip side, movies like the Avengers would've been terrible without modern effects.
But the Avengers weren't cutting edge special effects either they were tried and tested ones, see where I am getting at? People who moan, bitch and complain a voxel game with massive sandbox elements and destruction physics isn't also top of the range graphics wise forget that even when some of the best looking MMOs out there are basically just now hitting 2010-2009 level graphics (at best) while maintaining a decent level of gameplay. I mean EVE-Online for example which has the most massive PVP fights for example (4000-6000 people within a single server node, possibly within 250 km of each other) has graphics roughly around 2010, average not high end) hits nearly unplayable levels at that point even with server node reinforcement (have you ever played in TiDi of 90%? everything takes 9 times longer to do, a fight which would be over in 5 minutes takes 45 at best) and that game does not have complex physics in play or action combat, could anyone imagine how a fight would go with half those people if those two were in EVE? (the server node would die, likely the whole damn server network).
Originally posted by Dihoru -while alternating between EVE-Online and Albion Online- yes, graphics are so important to the depth of a game.... christ.... so many spoiled brats that never grew up mentally. Terraria and Starbound sodomize any of the last 3-4 CoD games in both quality and story yet look like they could run on a gods damned Amiga, compute that already people, quality isn't linked to how realistic the tities are.
No, but it is one of the things important to a medium that uses gfx to emulate or simulate a world and the action that takes place in that world. If you had the choice of the same game mechanics, but with the gfx/art you prefer, which would you pick? In todays tech, it shouldn't have to be a choice between quality grx or quality gameplay. We should expect both.
I do see what you are saying. The Star Wars prequels proved that better special effects don't make for a quality movie, but on the flip side, movies like the Avengers would've been terrible without modern effects.
But the Avengers weren't cutting edge special effects either they were tried and tested ones, see where I am getting at? People who moan, bitch and complain a voxel game with massive sandbox elements and destruction physics isn't also top of the range graphics wise forget that even when some of the best looking MMOs out there are basically just now hitting 2010-2009 level graphics (at best) while maintaining a decent level of gameplay. I mean EVE-Online for example which has the most massive PVP fights for example (4000-6000 people within a single server node, possibly within 250 km of each other) has graphics roughly around 2010, average not high end) hits nearly unplayable levels at that point even with server node reinforcement (have you ever played in TiDi of 90%? everything takes 9 times longer to do, a fight which would be over in 5 minutes takes 45 at best) and that game does not have complex physics in play or action combat, could anyone imagine how a fight would go with half those people if those two were in EVE? (the server node would die, likely the whole damn server network).
No, i get what you are saying about gfx not being ground breaking is a small price to pay for newer, and hopefully ground breaking gameplay. Even though I would prefer realistic over cartoony, I would much prefer they deliver all the innovative things they've promised, then have same-old with AoC art/gfx. But people have different views on these things and gamers are very set in their ways. No reason to get all insulting and call them brats when it is just what they want in a game. It's not going to change any minds.
You must not be as old as I am, but as I compared the SW movies of different eras of movie tech, Avengers made before CGI would not have been very pleasing to the eye (even though original SW pulled it off nicely).
I didn't bother reading anything in this thread. Why? because I know better.
A lot of people do not understand what it takes to render graphics. A lot of people think that because they seen some shiny graphics in some single player game - that somehow that means that EQN is below par.
MMO's will naturally have many more objects that are rendered on a screen at any given time ( MASS MULTIPLAYER). For every object rendered, increasing the LoD, Pixels rendered, Texture quality, AA or any other type of Quality enhancer will reduce the games' playability across the board. Why? Because ;
A) Your average gamer does not have a high end PC.
When there are tons of objects, players, events being rendered on your screen at once (A GOOD, ACTIVE, LIVING MMO), your FPS will drop. Whether or not you like it, there will be a drop. Throw in extremely advanced graphics and you just cut out half of your potential subscribers because they don't have a PC that can run the game / or their PC renders and plays the game so bad that they simply uninstall.
Originally posted by Dihoru -while alternating between EVE-Online and Albion Online- yes, graphics are so important to the depth of a game.... christ.... so many spoiled brats that never grew up mentally. Terraria and Starbound sodomize any of the last 3-4 CoD games in both quality and story yet look like they could run on a gods damned Amiga, compute that already people, quality isn't linked to how realistic the tities are.
No, but it is one of the things important to a medium that uses gfx to emulate or simulate a world and the action that takes place in that world. If you had the choice of the same game mechanics, but with the gfx/art you prefer, which would you pick? In todays tech, it shouldn't have to be a choice between quality grx or quality gameplay. We should expect both.
I do see what you are saying. The Star Wars prequels proved that better special effects don't make for a quality movie, but on the flip side, movies like the Avengers would've been terrible without modern effects.
But the Avengers weren't cutting edge special effects either they were tried and tested ones, see where I am getting at? People who moan, bitch and complain a voxel game with massive sandbox elements and destruction physics isn't also top of the range graphics wise forget that even when some of the best looking MMOs out there are basically just now hitting 2010-2009 level graphics (at best) while maintaining a decent level of gameplay. I mean EVE-Online for example which has the most massive PVP fights for example (4000-6000 people within a single server node, possibly within 250 km of each other) has graphics roughly around 2010, average not high end) hits nearly unplayable levels at that point even with server node reinforcement (have you ever played in TiDi of 90%? everything takes 9 times longer to do, a fight which would be over in 5 minutes takes 45 at best) and that game does not have complex physics in play or action combat, could anyone imagine how a fight would go with half those people if those two were in EVE? (the server node would die, likely the whole damn server network).
No, i get what you are saying about gfx not being ground breaking is a small price to pay for newer, and hopefully ground breaking gameplay. Even though I would prefer realistic over cartoony, I would much prefer they deliver all the innovative things they've promised, then have same-old with AoC art/gfx. But people have different views on these things and gamers are very set in their ways. No reason to get all insulting and call them brats when it is just what they want in a game. It's not going to change any minds.
You must not be as old as I am, but as I compared the SW movies of different eras of movie tech, Avengers made before CGI would not have been very pleasing to the eye (even though original SW pulled it off nicely).
No reason to insult the people whom clamor for better graphics over gameplay? We have to look at indie developers these days so we do not get our expectations as butchered as they did by SWTOR or Mass Effect 3 or any of the God of War games past the 1st one. You cannot blame developers for making shit when shit sells, they need to work for a living and if a roster and a graphics upgrade (looking at you FIFA) is all that's required to turn in millions of dollars for minimal investment then developers will do it or will be forced to by their investors or bosses.
Also you're around 19 years older than me, I get why I seem a Hell of allot more militant in my views than you but still...we've reached the point in gaming history where we, as a community, need to realize that games are good for their gameplay not their graphics (love Age of Empires 2, hate the 3rd, love Dwarf Fortress dislike games like Impire or Overlord where the emphasis is on flashy graphics not depth of gameplay).
Comments
I don't believe it would do better. Games like Bless, Black Desert, TESO, and Star Citizen look very blah to me. I liked cartoony/stylized graphics in EQ (before WoW, what?) and I still like them almost 15 years later.
I've yet to see a non-Asian themed fantasy game do realistic graphics properly, not that I think Bless/BD look very realistic either. Certain cut scenes look pretty, but not actual gameplay. TESO looks as lifeless as it gets with all the bland colors and dead eyed characters. Star Citizen looks pretty if you like sci-fi, everything is perfectly smooth and shiny without any real life or texture, but not my cup of tea.
The EQ franchise has always been stylized, not surprising they've had Rosie there for quite a while. Her art direction has progressed over the years, but stays true to her style.
While models are not voxel based, it sure would look strange having hyper realistic characters in a voxel based world such as EQN's. So far, humans look fairly "realistic" and while the specific Kerran face is a little wonky, the body overall looks great and there will be multiple cat types and customization.
If you don't like EQ, WoW, or other stylized games, then obviously EQN isn't for you or others like you. Go invest in Star Citizen and have constructive conversations on their boards. Why people continue to complain about a fundamental part of a game is beyond me. Game isn't even in open Alpha yet and graphics look better then released games. Live stream today had some decent gameplay and it is easy to see how voxels and the character models go together perfectly.
Voxels, stylized graphics, SOEmote, Heroic gameplay, and a vibrant world are going to make EQN into a great game. You enjoy playing Mass Effect er I mean Star Citizen and looking at empty space, asteroids and shiny spaceships, I'll actually be playing in a game world brought to life.
Edit: Just realized your the "don't get your hopes" up person and that you've been going on about graphic since the reveal. Oh well. Good luck to you, but sometimes you have to just accept what is given. Great thing about choices, you can choose to not play EQN if you don't want to. Sorry you got your hopes up and the reveal in Aug crushed your dreams.
No, but it is one of the things important to a medium that uses gfx to emulate or simulate a world and the action that takes place in that world. If you had the choice of the same game mechanics, but with the gfx/art you prefer, which would you pick? In todays tech, it shouldn't have to be a choice between quality grx or quality gameplay. We should expect both.
I do see what you are saying. The Star Wars prequels proved that better special effects don't make for a quality movie, but on the flip side, movies like the Avengers would've been terrible without modern effects.
Just my pence worth but MMO's have to cater for a larger range of pc levels since they want as many people to play their game as possible. You can even use Planetside 2's attempt to get their game running better on lower end machines as an example.
Graphics are nice but Gameplay and Story are the real winners and the things that keep people playing. If this wasn't the case there would be no people playing games like MUDS, Legend of Mir, Runescape, Lineage, RO, etc, etc
--------------------------------------------
I see the Past, I see the Present, I see the Future, I see All.
But the Avengers weren't cutting edge special effects either
they were tried and tested ones, see where I am getting at? People who moan, bitch and complain a voxel game with massive sandbox elements and destruction physics isn't also top of the range graphics wise forget that even when some of the best looking MMOs out there are basically just now hitting 2010-2009 level graphics (at best) while maintaining a decent level of gameplay. I mean EVE-Online for example which has the most massive PVP fights for example (4000-6000 people within a single server node, possibly within 250 km of each other) has graphics roughly around 2010, average not high end) hits nearly unplayable levels at that point even with server node reinforcement (have you ever played in TiDi of 90%? everything takes 9 times longer to do, a fight which would be over in 5 minutes takes 45 at best) and that game does not have complex physics in play or action combat, could anyone imagine how a fight would go with half those people if those two were in EVE? (the server node would die, likely the whole damn server network).
No, i get what you are saying about gfx not being ground breaking is a small price to pay for newer, and hopefully ground breaking gameplay. Even though I would prefer realistic over cartoony, I would much prefer they deliver all the innovative things they've promised, then have same-old with AoC art/gfx. But people have different views on these things and gamers are very set in their ways. No reason to get all insulting and call them brats when it is just what they want in a game. It's not going to change any minds.
You must not be as old as I am, but as I compared the SW movies of different eras of movie tech, Avengers made before CGI would not have been very pleasing to the eye (even though original SW pulled it off nicely).
Bad thread is bad.
I didn't bother reading anything in this thread. Why? because I know better.
A lot of people do not understand what it takes to render graphics. A lot of people think that because they seen some shiny graphics in some single player game - that somehow that means that EQN is below par.
MMO's will naturally have many more objects that are rendered on a screen at any given time ( MASS MULTIPLAYER). For every object rendered, increasing the LoD, Pixels rendered, Texture quality, AA or any other type of Quality enhancer will reduce the games' playability across the board. Why? Because ;
A) Your average gamer does not have a high end PC.
/thread
The end.
Pretty much exactly what I thought the second I read the OPs post... Nothing more needs to be said here.
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"Searchers after horror haunt strange, far places..." ~ H.P.Lovecraft, "From Beyond"
Member Since March 2004
No reason to insult the people whom clamor for better graphics over gameplay? We have to look at indie developers these days so we do not get our expectations as butchered as they did by SWTOR or Mass Effect 3 or any of the God of War games past the 1st one. You cannot blame developers for making shit when shit sells, they need to work for a living and if a roster and a graphics upgrade (looking at you FIFA) is all that's required to turn in millions of dollars for minimal investment then developers will do it or will be forced to by their investors or bosses.
Also you're around 19 years older than me, I get why I seem a Hell of allot more militant in my views than you but still...we've reached the point in gaming history where we, as a community, need to realize that games are good for their gameplay not their graphics (love Age of Empires 2, hate the 3rd, love Dwarf Fortress dislike games like Impire or Overlord where the emphasis is on flashy graphics not depth of gameplay).