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Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Originally posted by Swids2010 I love articles likes this because it just shows the OP has never played a pay to win game. Gw2 Is not pay to win xp boosts and other boost are not pay to win. Now a example of this was say if they put a weapon in the shop that was unattainable in game and lets say this weapon is 200% better than anything you could get in game then it is pay to win.
Im not weighing into GW2 being P2W, because I haven't touched it in 6 months. With that said, P2W isn't struitly if things you pay for are are better than ones you get in game. P2W also means you can pay for things others would have to farm for. Anything that give you an unfair advantage over another player (such as instantly gearing a player then taking it to players farming for their gear in PVP). I dont believe XP pots are P2W, because they just get you to endgame faster. As long as the endgame grind is the same, you are just coimpeting against other endgame players, not lower level toons.
Originally posted by reaperuk If a game is mainly PvE where you're not in competition with anybody. How can anything be pay to win? Win what? I don't understand these kind of posts.
I cant wrap my head around you calling GW2 a mainly PVE game. Its PVE group content is some of the most basic PVE content in any AAA MMO. If anything, GW2 is a PVP game with PVE tacked on (a la Warhammer Online, only much better).
Originally posted by JoeyMMO You don't have a clue what Pay2Win games are like, do you? GW2 isn't P2W, nowhere near it. In Pay2Win games an paying player will OWN a non-paying player in PvP, in some games one heavy-cashshopper can wipe a dozen non-cashshoppers without breaking a sweat. In GW2 a non-cashshopper has access to gear with exactly the same stats as the cashshoppers. There is no P2W in GW2.
You could buy Legendaries and be a bit stronger in WvW than a non-cashshopper who doesn't have the time to acquire the best gear, but the difference is marginal enough that you're not going to be able to wipe a small group just because you bought tons of gems, just to get your Legendary faster.
Actually no. If you don't have time, just craft an ascended weapon. You can craft one in days or if you're lucky enough you can drop one in fractals. And ascended weapons got the same stats with legendary weapons.
Also no. Let me know when ascended can be obtained at level 1 instantly AND can swap their stats to any stat set you desire like credit card legendaries can.
Are you still goin' about this? Seriously? So you're more powerful than any players who don't buy gems. Because you can change you legendary's stats any time you want! Btw any player can get these legendary weapons with just "playing" the game and with no gems at all. Such a pity...
You're right, it's a pity that more people like yourself don't see that even though you can "earn everything in game" you can also practically "earn" everything by plunking down $$$. It IS NOT PAY TO WIN, BUT AS HAS BEEN SAID IT CHEAPENS THE EXPERIENCE TO "WHY EVEN BOTHER??"
Person A: Spent 100's of hours playing and working hard to get their Legendary
Person B: Spent 30 seconds charging the same Legendary to their credit card
Person C: They see person A and person B both have the same Legendary, which one actually PLAYED the game to EARN it? They can't tell...
Your right, it's a pity that more people like yourself don't see that even though you can "earn everything in game" you can also practically "earn" everything by plunking down $$$. It IS NOT PAY TO WIN, BUT AS HAS BEEN SAID IT CHEAPENS THE EXPERIENCE TO "WHY EVEN BOTHER??"
Person A: Spent 100's of hours playing and working hard to get their Legendary
Person B: Spent 30 seconds charging the same Legendary to their credit card
Person C: They see person A and person B both have the same Legendary, which one actually PLAYED the game to EARN it? They can't tell...
If people being able to buy what you had to earn makes the game a " why even bother" then every mmo has always been a waste of time for you. As far back as you want to go there has been power lvling services and ebay accounts for sale.
I can't enjoy my game because you're not playing it the right way, is a poor excuse and a bad attitude to go into any mmo with.
Your right, it's a pity that more people like yourself don't see that even though you can "earn everything in game" you can also practically "earn" everything by plunking down $$$. It IS NOT PAY TO WIN, BUT AS HAS BEEN SAID IT CHEAPENS THE EXPERIENCE TO "WHY EVEN BOTHER??"
Person A: Spent 100's of hours playing and working hard to get their Legendary
Person B: Spent 30 seconds charging the same Legendary to their credit card
Person C: They see person A and person B both have the same Legendary, which one actually PLAYED the game to EARN it? They can't tell...
If people being able to buy what you had to earn makes the game a " why even bother" then every mmo has always been a waste of time for you. As far back as you want to go there has been power lvling services and ebay accounts for sale.
I can't enjoy my game because you're not playing it the right way, is a poor excuse and a bad attitude to go into any mmo with.
If you equate the difference between the game developer supporting and running an easily used in game service, compared to going out of your way, breaking the ToS, and have a possibility of getting bamboozled as the "same thing", clearly you cannot be reasoned with.
Originally posted by JoeyMMO You don't have a clue what Pay2Win games are like, do you? GW2 isn't P2W, nowhere near it. In Pay2Win games an paying player will OWN a non-paying player in PvP, in some games one heavy-cashshopper can wipe a dozen non-cashshoppers without breaking a sweat. In GW2 a non-cashshopper has access to gear with exactly the same stats as the cashshoppers. There is no P2W in GW2. You could buy Legendaries and be a bit stronger in WvW than a non-cashshopper who doesn't have the time to acquire the best gear, but the difference is marginal enough that you're not going to be able to wipe a small group just because you bought tons of gems, just to get your Legendary faster.
Actually no. If you don't have time, just craft an ascended weapon. You can craft one in days or if you're lucky enough you can drop one in fractals. And ascended weapons got the same stats with legendary weapons.
Also no. Let me know when ascended can be obtained at level 1 instantly AND can swap their stats to any stat set you desire like credit card legendaries can.
Are you still goin' about this? Seriously? So you're more powerful than any players who don't buy gems. Because you can change you legendary's stats any time you want! Btw any player can get these legendary weapons with just "playing" the game and with no gems at all. Such a pity...
You're right, it's a pity that more people like yourself don't see that even though you can "earn everything in game" you can also practically "earn" everything by plunking down $$$. It IS NOT PAY TO WIN, BUT AS HAS BEEN SAID IT CHEAPENS THE EXPERIENCE TO "WHY EVEN BOTHER??"
Person A: Spent 100's of hours playing and working hard to get their Legendary
Person B: Spent 30 seconds charging the same Legendary to their credit card
Person C: They see person A and person B both have the same Legendary, which one actually PLAYED the game to EARN it? They can't tell...
I don't care what person c thinks. I don't care how person b get his legendary. I only care how do I play my game and how do I have fun with it... Why should I care about other players and their way of playing? I'm not playing the Gw2 for show off to other players. I'm playing Gw2 for fun. That's all.
You're right, it's a pity that more people like yourself don't see that even though you can "earn everything in game" you can also practically "earn" everything by plunking down $$$. It IS NOT PAY TO WIN, BUT AS HAS BEEN SAID IT CHEAPENS THE EXPERIENCE TO "WHY EVEN BOTHER??"
Person A: Spent 100's of hours playing and working hard to get their Legendary
Person B: Spent 30 seconds charging the same Legendary to their credit card
Person C: They see person A and person B both have the same Legendary, which one actually PLAYED the game to EARN it? They can't tell...
There is another way you can look at it.
Person A: Spent 100's of hours playing and working hard to get their legendary and has an immense level of satisfaction because of the reward for their efforts (they are happy)
Person B: Spent 30 seconds charging the same legendary to their credit card and has a warm glowy feeling about their purchase because they can afford it (they are happy)
Person C: Feels obligated to suggest that one of those people doesn't have the right to be happy.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
(Since almost all no-sub mmo removed, or does not even have, over-powered cash items, the P2W in my point of view has became how a cash player could save a great amount of time over a free player.)
Am I the only one who is thinking about this? With the newly introduced sellable agony resistence and increasing rate for gem to gold, a cash player could easily obtain almost all available pve gears(any stats) instantly. Due to the low gold-reward rate with the punishment from DR, free players need to spend so long on either grinding dungeons or farming gold in order to achieve the same.
Although I already got what I wanted after excessively and repetitively doing some contents, I really feel bad about the situation that new players will face.
Do you mean you are now getting more gold for gems?
Could someone answer this for me please? If so, I can understand OP concern.
Doesn't matter. You can get top stat level 80 weapons for a couple of silver or even a few coppers. They might look boring.. but they work just as good.
To answer gold/gems. Yes the amount of gold you get for your purchased gems has increased, and continues to do so. It is about 6-7 times what it was on release. These rates are supposed to be set by market conditions (say there is more gold so the value goes down and value of gems goes up) but in all reality no one is able to monitor that and Anet could quite easily influence these values.
As to the issue about buying top end get for a couple silver, this is just not true. Ascended items do an additional 10% stats/damage and cost I think 200-300 gold a piece. You may argue that 10% is not substantial and for PVE that may be true but things like WVW it makes a large difference especially among large numbers of players. This will only get worse due to ascended armor being released in the near future. So to be fully outfitted with ascended weapons and armor/trinkets and so on, it will most likely cost you in the 1000's of gold in the near future, not taking into account alts. Cosmetics are not the only thing for GW2 they have been progressively adding a gear grind.
Thank you for the answer. I played for a little bit around launch time. The exchange rate was really bad. It made no sense imo to buy gold.
I'm relatively new to f2p/b2p(f2p with box cost) systems, with Wushu being my only long term experience. I've learned enough to know that if, the conversion from cash to gold is really bad most people will play instead of pay.
For example in Wushu 10$ will convert to about 300 silver. A top tier weapon could cost as much as 5-10k silver. Therefor it would cost around 400$ to just credit card that weapon. At that point that person would only have weapon, which is like 2% of a characters overall make up. Only a handful of people would even think of going this route.
Now lets say that conversion rate was 10$ for 2k gold (5 or 6 times "better"), in a sense opening the flood gates, there would be A LOT more people willing to pay instead of play. This is where things can go bad quickly. Where the feeling of "need to pay" would become prevalent.
I no longer know enough about gw2 to say p2w (p2saveAlotofTime?), but I can see where OP's concerns are coming from.
You don't have a clue what Pay2Win games are like, do you? GW2 isn't P2W, nowhere near it. In Pay2Win games an paying player will OWN a non-paying player in PvP, in some games one heavy-cashshopper can wipe a dozen non-cashshoppers without breaking a sweat. In GW2 a non-cashshopper has access to gear with exactly the same stats as the cashshoppers. There is no P2W in GW2.
You could buy Legendaries and be a bit stronger in WvW than a non-cashshopper who doesn't have the time to acquire the best gear, but the difference is marginal enough that you're not going to be able to wipe a small group just because you bought tons of gems, just to get your Legendary faster.
So if you barely beat someone in WvW due to your buying stuff, and they didn't, you didn't pay to beat them? Got it.
If you don't have the time, nor the skill, nor the money to get that edge that they bought, yes then you'll lose.
You can buy all you want, but it on't help you one bit against a player that actually crafted his legendary. On the contrary, the player that crafted it probably put a lot more thought into what stats he wants for his/her gear. Also there's so much stuff that you'll need that you can't buy, but have to work for, that getting out your wallet just won't cut it.
You probably haven't been doing a lot of WvW, or am I mistaken there?
If you want a completely level playing field, play sPvP. If you want to join the zerg, go with WvW where the numbers will matter, not the difference between Exotic and Legendary.
(Since almost all no-sub mmo removed, or does not even have, over-powered cash items, the P2W in my point of view has became how a cash player could save a great amount of time over a free player.)Am I the only one who is thinking about this? With the newly introduced sellable agony resistence and increasing rate for gem to gold, a cash player could easily obtain almost all available pve gears(any stats) instantly. Due to the low gold-reward rate with the punishment from DR, free players need to spend so long on either grinding dungeons or farming gold in order to achieve the same.Although I already got what I wanted after excessively and repetitively doing some contents, I really feel bad about the situation that new players will face.
I agree with the op. Been thinking it for a while and didn't bother mentioning because there are other things about the game I don't like too. But I do feel a bit mislead and feel like the game has evolved from buyto play to a p2win. I didn't bother saying anything because the fanboi flaming one gets when expressing dislike and this website has lots of them including staff members.
Originally posted by tom_gore My definition of pay to win is that if you pay anything ever to play games, you are a loser and should be banned, because god forbid if the company making the game would actually make some money out of it.
...
Yeah... no.
If a company wants to make money and promote a healthy player base. Subscription model is the way.
Rather than who can pump more real life cash into the game company's pockets to get an edge.
I really like that argument because it reminds me of MMOs before F2P where the argument was that the person who has more time has the advantage.
Here's a given: Someone, somewhere, is going to have a faster connection, better graphics card, bigger monitor, more precise mouse, more time, more money, better hand-eye coordination, more organized teamwork, etc.
An a related note, another given is that some people will consistently insist that others should be shackled down to the limitations of what they personally have to bring to the game or what they are personally willing to invest in the game.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I don't play GW2 anymore personally, the experience for me was very lack luster if honest. However by the means you propose it is "not" pay to win. Paying to win is having a cost that allows you to perform better than anyone else, hence why it's 'pay to win'.
What you have though is two forms of currency, time being one and money being the other. I never pay for anything in a F2P game unless I want to support the developer and as such that is cosmetic stuff. I bought a lot of stuff in TSW and in POE but I have never done the same with games like Neverwinter or GW2. Some people do however spend a lot in these types of games and that is down to them. If money is not an issue for you, but say you can only play for a couple or a few hours a week I will not fault anyone whom wishes to purchase items to be immediately competitive with other people.
Of course the same is in reverse, if say you can play 6 hours a day but don't have disposable income to throw at the game then time becomes YOUR form of currency. The issue occurs when people paying get a distinct advantage over other plays to which cannot be achieved unless you paid to do so.
Of course currency exchanges in game do flux so for games like GW2 the money over time exchanged can be greatly skewed, that should also be addressed by either making gold drop a little more or less to help balance the economy a bit more. It's tricky business and I can understand why a lot of people would consider it to be unfair, but its not alas. It is however something that might rob players from enjoyment of the game and have them choose not to play, to which that is a personal choice.
You don't have a clue what Pay2Win games are like, do you? GW2 isn't P2W, nowhere near it. In Pay2Win games an paying player will OWN a non-paying player in PvP, in some games one heavy-cashshopper can wipe a dozen non-cashshoppers without breaking a sweat. In GW2 a non-cashshopper has access to gear with exactly the same stats as the cashshoppers. There is no P2W in GW2.
You could buy Legendaries and be a bit stronger in WvW than a non-cashshopper who doesn't have the time to acquire the best gear, but the difference is marginal enough that you're not going to be able to wipe a small group just because you bought tons of gems, just to get your Legendary faster.
[mod edit]
PVE game can be P2W just like PVP games. PVE players can be competitive just like everyone else... cannot believe I had to write that. If you can buy gear that other players get through playing the game, that's pretty much the definition of paying to win.
I really like that argument because it reminds me of MMOs before F2P where the argument was that the person who has more time has the advantage.
Here's a given: Someone, somewhere, is going to have a faster connection, better graphics card, bigger monitor, more precise mouse, more time, more money, better hand-eye coordination, more organized teamwork, etc.
An a related note, another given is that some people will consistently insist that others should be shackled down to the limitations of what they personally have to bring to the game or what they are personally willing to invest in the game.
Please tell me I'm reading this wrong.
Are you saying that not having the option to spend cash in game is being "shackled down" due to not being able or willing to invest more time?
You can get up to level 19 with 10 AR; 29 with 25 AR, 39 with 40 AR, 49 with 55 AR, and 50 with 70 AR.
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Agony resistance up to level 45 can be obtained utilizing versatile +5 infusions and +5 agony resistance infusions. Both are pretty easy to make. Ascended weapons/legendary weapons will bring your AR to 55.
-Rings are obtained by fractals and laurels or laurels+badges of honor.
-Amulets are obtained by laurels or laurels+badges of honor.
-Earrings are obtained by guild missions or laurels + globs of ectoplasm.
-Asceneded Weapons are obtained from fractals, boss drops, or crafting.
The only thing that can be obtained using gold are ectoplasm from that list.
--------------
Fractal rewards are based on one's reward level. This level is progressed by one for each fractal completed at or above the player's personal reward level.
FIRST SCENARIO: So, let's say a new player wanted to pay their way into fractals.
-They can not obtain rings, amulets, or earrings until they complete fractals or obtain enough laurels or guild commendations.
-They would have to buy a legendary weapon to get their first 10 AR
-They would have to then find a group that would let them in to level 40-50 fractals with 10 AR...good luck.
-They would not obtain any reward b/c their reward level is 1.
SECOND SCENARIO: Let's say a player has 300 laurels from PvE and wants buy their way into fractals
-They can obtain rings, amulet, and earrings utilizing laurels.
-They will have no AR because they have not completed any fractals
-They would have to buy a legendary to get 10 AR
-At 25silver per agony infusion, they would have to pay 271 gold to get 2 +10 infusions. That would get them to AR 30. 2 +13 infusions. would cost 2292 gold to get them to AR 36.
-They would have to then find a group that would let them in to level 40-50 fractals with 30-36 AR...good luck.
---------------
TL;DR....no freaking way is this pay to win. You would pay to still be a fractal noob OR pay to access levels early that you will not be rewarded for until you're reward level matches the fractal level...
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
When i was playing GW2 i actually enjoyed gathering my cool gear, when i was finish gathering i was either doing pvp or playing alts......only thing you can win if you pay for your gear is boredom....
Originally posted by JoeyMMO You don't have a clue what Pay2Win games are like, do you? GW2 isn't P2W, nowhere near it. In Pay2Win games an paying player will OWN a non-paying player in PvP, in some games one heavy-cashshopper can wipe a dozen non-cashshoppers without breaking a sweat. In GW2 a non-cashshopper has access to gear with exactly the same stats as the cashshoppers. There is no P2W in GW2. You could buy Legendaries and be a bit stronger in WvW than a non-cashshopper who doesn't have the time to acquire the best gear, but the difference is marginal enough that you're not going to be able to wipe a small group just because you bought tons of gems, just to get your Legendary faster.
Actually no. If you don't have time, just craft an ascended weapon. You can craft one in days or if you're lucky enough you can drop one in fractals. And ascended weapons got the same stats with legendary weapons.
Also no. Let me know when ascended can be obtained at level 1 instantly AND can swap their stats to any stat set you desire like credit card legendaries can.
Are you still goin' about this? Seriously? So you're more powerful than any players who don't buy gems. Because you can change you legendary's stats any time you want! Btw any player can get these legendary weapons with just "playing" the game and with no gems at all. Such a pity...
You're right, it's a pity that more people like yourself don't see that even though you can "earn everything in game" you can also practically "earn" everything by plunking down $$$. It IS NOT PAY TO WIN, BUT AS HAS BEEN SAID IT CHEAPENS THE EXPERIENCE TO "WHY EVEN BOTHER??"
Person A: Spent 100's of hours playing and working hard to get their Legendary
Person B: Spent 30 seconds charging the same Legendary to their credit card
Person C: They see person A and person B both have the same Legendary, which one actually PLAYED the game to EARN it? They can't tell...
I don't care what person c thinks. I don't care how person b get his legendary. I only care how do I play my game and how do I have fun with it... Why should I care about other players and their way of playing? I'm not playing the Gw2 for show off to other players. I'm playing Gw2 for fun. That's all.
And that's cool - but a lot of people do care. I didn't stop playing GW2 for this reason at all ( I have LOTS of time,) I stopped because the game is simply not good. It looks pretty...other than that is it is literally an platformer (SAB,)merry-go-round (fractals,) and carnival games (lockbox RNG...) Not a game I'm interesed in spending time in - especially one that you can literally pay $$$ to get to the front of the line. Over one full year and not a SINGLE NEW ARMOR SET released IN GAME (cash shop only.) Looks like I'm not alone in my assessment - they are literally begging for $$ in their new ad campaign and even recycled existing armor sets in the store with added flame effects (lol.)
Originally posted by JoeyMMO You don't have a clue what Pay2Win games are like, do you? GW2 isn't P2W, nowhere near it. In Pay2Win games an paying player will OWN a non-paying player in PvP, in some games one heavy-cashshopper can wipe a dozen non-cashshoppers without breaking a sweat. In GW2 a non-cashshopper has access to gear with exactly the same stats as the cashshoppers. There is no P2W in GW2. You could buy Legendaries and be a bit stronger in WvW than a non-cashshopper who doesn't have the time to acquire the best gear, but the difference is marginal enough that you're not going to be able to wipe a small group just because you bought tons of gems, just to get your Legendary faster.
Actually no. If you don't have time, just craft an ascended weapon. You can craft one in days or if you're lucky enough you can drop one in fractals. And ascended weapons got the same stats with legendary weapons.
Also no. Let me know when ascended can be obtained at level 1 instantly AND can swap their stats to any stat set you desire like credit card legendaries can.
Are you still goin' about this? Seriously? So you're more powerful than any players who don't buy gems. Because you can change you legendary's stats any time you want! Btw any player can get these legendary weapons with just "playing" the game and with no gems at all. Such a pity...
You're right, it's a pity that more people like yourself don't see that even though you can "earn everything in game" you can also practically "earn" everything by plunking down $$$. It IS NOT PAY TO WIN, BUT AS HAS BEEN SAID IT CHEAPENS THE EXPERIENCE TO "WHY EVEN BOTHER??"
Person A: Spent 100's of hours playing and working hard to get their Legendary
Person B: Spent 30 seconds charging the same Legendary to their credit card
Person C: They see person A and person B both have the same Legendary, which one actually PLAYED the game to EARN it? They can't tell...
I don't care what person c thinks. I don't care how person b get his legendary. I only care how do I play my game and how do I have fun with it... Why should I care about other players and their way of playing? I'm not playing the Gw2 for show off to other players. I'm playing Gw2 for fun. That's all.
And that's cool - but a lot of people do care. I didn't stop playing GW2 for this reason at all ( I have LOTS of time,) I stopped because the game is simply not good. It looks pretty...other than that is it is literally an arcade (SAB,)merry-go-round (fractals,) and carnival games (lockbox RNG...) Not a game I'm interesed in spending time in - especially one that you can literally pay $$$ to get to the front of the line. Over one full year and not a SINGLE NEW ARMOR SET released IN GAME (cash shop only.) Looks like I'm not alone in my assessment - they are literally begging for $$ in their new ad campaign and even recycled existing armor sets in the store with added flame effects (lol.)
You still have way more armor sets and weapon skins in game than in item shop and definitly its not rule that those in shop are cooler than in game sets. Plus if you have time to get in-game gold , you can buy EVERYTHING that is in shop, but you cant buy everything that is in game for gems from shop. If that is P2W even for cosmetics, you have no idea what you are talking about.
Old school MMO's were way more P2W than anything in GW2. People just don't want to admit it.
Granted it's beyond silly that you can buy a legendary. I spent 6 months farming for mine and to see people with 3-4 in the same time frame irritated me to no end. They weren't and stronger than me though so i laughed at what people are willing to spend in game for cosmetics. Time is money i suppose.
Having said that - i guarantee that players spend way more on RMT in EQ/FFXI. It's not even close. You could flat out buy power, rare gear, expensive crafted gear that mattered, and even relics in XI's case. It cracks me up that people either pretend this crap didn't happen or turn a blind eye and then rag on GW2 for basically removing it.
Comments
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
You're right, it's a pity that more people like yourself don't see that even though you can "earn everything in game" you can also practically "earn" everything by plunking down $$$. It IS NOT PAY TO WIN, BUT AS HAS BEEN SAID IT CHEAPENS THE EXPERIENCE TO "WHY EVEN BOTHER??"
Person A: Spent 100's of hours playing and working hard to get their Legendary
Person B: Spent 30 seconds charging the same Legendary to their credit card
Person C: They see person A and person B both have the same Legendary, which one actually PLAYED the game to EARN it? They can't tell...
If people being able to buy what you had to earn makes the game a " why even bother" then every mmo has always been a waste of time for you. As far back as you want to go there has been power lvling services and ebay accounts for sale.
I can't enjoy my game because you're not playing it the right way, is a poor excuse and a bad attitude to go into any mmo with.
This has turned into another thread of Azure telling you guys you are playing this game wrong because you play with the stats you like.
You heard it - You guys suck!
Uh sorry I mean - You guys play subpar!
If you equate the difference between the game developer supporting and running an easily used in game service, compared to going out of your way, breaking the ToS, and have a possibility of getting bamboozled as the "same thing", clearly you cannot be reasoned with.
I don't care what person c thinks. I don't care how person b get his legendary. I only care how do I play my game and how do I have fun with it... Why should I care about other players and their way of playing? I'm not playing the Gw2 for show off to other players. I'm playing Gw2 for fun. That's all.
There is another way you can look at it.
Person A: Spent 100's of hours playing and working hard to get their legendary and has an immense level of satisfaction because of the reward for their efforts (they are happy)
Person B: Spent 30 seconds charging the same legendary to their credit card and has a warm glowy feeling about their purchase because they can afford it (they are happy)
Person C: Feels obligated to suggest that one of those people doesn't have the right to be happy.
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
Thank you for the answer. I played for a little bit around launch time. The exchange rate was really bad. It made no sense imo to buy gold.
I'm relatively new to f2p/b2p(f2p with box cost) systems, with Wushu being my only long term experience. I've learned enough to know that if, the conversion from cash to gold is really bad most people will play instead of pay.
For example in Wushu 10$ will convert to about 300 silver. A top tier weapon could cost as much as 5-10k silver. Therefor it would cost around 400$ to just credit card that weapon. At that point that person would only have weapon, which is like 2% of a characters overall make up. Only a handful of people would even think of going this route.
Now lets say that conversion rate was 10$ for 2k gold (5 or 6 times "better"), in a sense opening the flood gates, there would be A LOT more people willing to pay instead of play. This is where things can go bad quickly. Where the feeling of "need to pay" would become prevalent.
I no longer know enough about gw2 to say p2w (p2saveAlotofTime?), but I can see where OP's concerns are coming from.
Immunity to a special attack of bosses inside the Fractals of the Mists dungeon.
You gain 1 fractal level each time you complete a run. Starting from level 10 on the bosses start using the attack.
So either way you have to keep on doing this one single dungeon over and to get good rewards and meanwhile you will get immunity drops anyway.
Nothing to see here.
If you don't have the time, nor the skill, nor the money to get that edge that they bought, yes then you'll lose.
You can buy all you want, but it on't help you one bit against a player that actually crafted his legendary. On the contrary, the player that crafted it probably put a lot more thought into what stats he wants for his/her gear. Also there's so much stuff that you'll need that you can't buy, but have to work for, that getting out your wallet just won't cut it.
You probably haven't been doing a lot of WvW, or am I mistaken there?
If you want a completely level playing field, play sPvP. If you want to join the zerg, go with WvW where the numbers will matter, not the difference between Exotic and Legendary.
Yeah I know all about agony and fractals, currently level 43 myself there.
But when you say pay to win, what do you win?
I agree with the op. Been thinking it for a while and didn't bother mentioning because there are other things about the game I don't like too. But I do feel a bit mislead and feel like the game has evolved from buyto play to a p2win. I didn't bother saying anything because the fanboi flaming one gets when expressing dislike and this website has lots of them including staff members.For some reason the op seems to be mad that potentially someone could pay with real money to obtain AG.
Personally I don't see a situation where someone is too lazy to farm AG and buys it just to grind his way up in fractals anyway.
I really like that argument because it reminds me of MMOs before F2P where the argument was that the person who has more time has the advantage.
Here's a given: Someone, somewhere, is going to have a faster connection, better graphics card, bigger monitor, more precise mouse, more time, more money, better hand-eye coordination, more organized teamwork, etc.
An a related note, another given is that some people will consistently insist that others should be shackled down to the limitations of what they personally have to bring to the game or what they are personally willing to invest in the game.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
I don't play GW2 anymore personally, the experience for me was very lack luster if honest. However by the means you propose it is "not" pay to win. Paying to win is having a cost that allows you to perform better than anyone else, hence why it's 'pay to win'.
What you have though is two forms of currency, time being one and money being the other. I never pay for anything in a F2P game unless I want to support the developer and as such that is cosmetic stuff. I bought a lot of stuff in TSW and in POE but I have never done the same with games like Neverwinter or GW2. Some people do however spend a lot in these types of games and that is down to them. If money is not an issue for you, but say you can only play for a couple or a few hours a week I will not fault anyone whom wishes to purchase items to be immediately competitive with other people.
Of course the same is in reverse, if say you can play 6 hours a day but don't have disposable income to throw at the game then time becomes YOUR form of currency. The issue occurs when people paying get a distinct advantage over other plays to which cannot be achieved unless you paid to do so.
Of course currency exchanges in game do flux so for games like GW2 the money over time exchanged can be greatly skewed, that should also be addressed by either making gold drop a little more or less to help balance the economy a bit more. It's tricky business and I can understand why a lot of people would consider it to be unfair, but its not alas. It is however something that might rob players from enjoyment of the game and have them choose not to play, to which that is a personal choice.
[mod edit]
PVE game can be P2W just like PVP games. PVE players can be competitive just like everyone else... cannot believe I had to write that. If you can buy gear that other players get through playing the game, that's pretty much the definition of paying to win.
For a primer on competitive PVE, read this:
https://forums.station.sony.com/everquestnext/index.php?threads/contested-content-yea-or-nay.33/
Sorry, there's 345 pages about something that doesn't exist, but you guys will probably get the idea 30 or 40 pages in.
Please tell me I'm reading this wrong.
Are you saying that not having the option to spend cash in game is being "shackled down" due to not being able or willing to invest more time?
So much fail in this thread....
For some background info: http://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Agony_Resistance
You can get up to level 19 with 10 AR; 29 with 25 AR, 39 with 40 AR, 49 with 55 AR, and 50 with 70 AR.
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Agony resistance up to level 45 can be obtained utilizing versatile +5 infusions and +5 agony resistance infusions. Both are pretty easy to make. Ascended weapons/legendary weapons will bring your AR to 55.
-Rings are obtained by fractals and laurels or laurels+badges of honor.
-Amulets are obtained by laurels or laurels+badges of honor.
-Earrings are obtained by guild missions or laurels + globs of ectoplasm.
-Asceneded Weapons are obtained from fractals, boss drops, or crafting.
The only thing that can be obtained using gold are ectoplasm from that list.
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Fractal rewards are based on one's reward level. This level is progressed by one for each fractal completed at or above the player's personal reward level.
FIRST SCENARIO: So, let's say a new player wanted to pay their way into fractals.
-They can not obtain rings, amulets, or earrings until they complete fractals or obtain enough laurels or guild commendations.
-They would have to buy a legendary weapon to get their first 10 AR
-They would have to then find a group that would let them in to level 40-50 fractals with 10 AR...good luck.
-They would not obtain any reward b/c their reward level is 1.
SECOND SCENARIO: Let's say a player has 300 laurels from PvE and wants buy their way into fractals
-They can obtain rings, amulet, and earrings utilizing laurels.
-They will have no AR because they have not completed any fractals
-They would have to buy a legendary to get 10 AR
-At 25silver per agony infusion, they would have to pay 271 gold to get 2 +10 infusions. That would get them to AR 30. 2 +13 infusions. would cost 2292 gold to get them to AR 36.
-They would have to then find a group that would let them in to level 40-50 fractals with 30-36 AR...good luck.
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TL;DR....no freaking way is this pay to win. You would pay to still be a fractal noob OR pay to access levels early that you will not be rewarded for until you're reward level matches the fractal level...
"As you read these words, a release is seven days or less away or has just happened within the last seven days those are now the only two states youll find the world of Tyria."...Guild Wars 2
And that's cool - but a lot of people do care. I didn't stop playing GW2 for this reason at all ( I have LOTS of time,) I stopped because the game is simply not good. It looks pretty...other than that is it is literally an platformer (SAB,)merry-go-round (fractals,) and carnival games (lockbox RNG...) Not a game I'm interesed in spending time in - especially one that you can literally pay $$$ to get to the front of the line. Over one full year and not a SINGLE NEW ARMOR SET released IN GAME (cash shop only.) Looks like I'm not alone in my assessment - they are literally begging for $$ in their new ad campaign and even recycled existing armor sets in the store with added flame effects (lol.)
You still have way more armor sets and weapon skins in game than in item shop and definitly its not rule that those in shop are cooler than in game sets. Plus if you have time to get in-game gold , you can buy EVERYTHING that is in shop, but you cant buy everything that is in game for gems from shop. If that is P2W even for cosmetics, you have no idea what you are talking about.
Old school MMO's were way more P2W than anything in GW2. People just don't want to admit it.
Granted it's beyond silly that you can buy a legendary. I spent 6 months farming for mine and to see people with 3-4 in the same time frame irritated me to no end. They weren't and stronger than me though so i laughed at what people are willing to spend in game for cosmetics. Time is money i suppose.
Having said that - i guarantee that players spend way more on RMT in EQ/FFXI. It's not even close. You could flat out buy power, rare gear, expensive crafted gear that mattered, and even relics in XI's case. It cracks me up that people either pretend this crap didn't happen or turn a blind eye and then rag on GW2 for basically removing it.
Out of the two camps, i much prefer GW2's system.