The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi I find it hard to except an already released game as a game of the year. FF was released a few year ago, revamping it doesn;t make it new.I would gladly except FF to be Most improved title ?
I did not play the original FF so I can not compare. However, from what I have read, FFIV:ARR is quite a different game than the original FFXIV was. Do you disagree? Do you think they are similar enough similar enough to disqualify the new version? Or did they just fix a whole mess of bugs in the original?It seems, and I could be wrong here, that the game that is getting the most votes you are denying as released.
Think it would do a diservice for the games that actually launched in 2013, and not the game that was launched in 2010. I think if you do that, then any game that has made improvements should be included in the mmo:goty voting, which would mean EVERY mmorpg should be included in the votiing. (I really hated my logic course in college, but it is really paying off lol)
I am asking the following questions in earnest, as I do not know the answer and am too lazy to look it up
What was the Final Fantasy MMO called that was released in 2010? Was it Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn, as the game released in 2014 was called? If so, I yield to your take on it.
If not, anything called EverQuest is just a rehash of the original game, right? Anything with a "2" after the title is just a rehash of some older game, right? Heck, one could even call any Final Fantasy MMO a rehash of the original one.
There are some MMOs that have made massive changes during their runs, SW:G being one of the top examples with UO close behind. The "NGE" and "CE" for SW:G and the "Trammel" changes certainly changed those games a lot. If a subscription MMO changes to F2P, maybe it should be considered for the year the change took place? I don't think so, because they are calling themselves the same title.
Again, I did not play both of those games. I am only going by what I have read about them and what I've read seems to say that they are 2 very different games.
Logic is fun, though, isn't it?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
The user and all related content has been deleted.
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Originally posted by AG-Vuk There are two very significant issues that weight against this game. 1 ) Cryptic 2 ) PWE. I think that pretty well clears it up, and let's you know where I stand on this. Not that anyone cares. except people that make the games. As a consumer, I hold these names in greater contempt then I do Sony's gaming division. That's saying a lot.
Not really, as it still all boils down to the hatred of a game based on the publishers and developers without taking into account the game itself, which means that you hate the game on an ad hominem fallacy, thus rendering your argument for hating the game pretty much null and void.
THAT'S saying a lot.
Not to turn this into a discussion of fault. But your argumentative ad hominem actually would not apply in this instance, because it is based on the presumption that the parties being named have upstanding reputations. In the case of both companies, they do indeed have a documented history of questionable actions and maneuvering, they also have a track record of various mistakes.
Let me put it this way: I am looking for a new car (video game), there are 2 car dealerships in my area, I choose to go to reputable car dealership (gaming developer) in order to purchase my car, as I have distrust for the other one (gaming developer) due to questionable sales ethics.
This is not an irrelevant arguments, it is quite relevant.
Thank you.
Except for the problem of how they got their reputations. People claim that they are bad companies, but their proof is almost always questionable at best and blatantly wrong at worst.
So it is quite irrelevant, and ad hominem is still very much what they are doing.
Originally posted by Dren_Utogi I getting a feeling it is because it is under PWE that it has a stigma of just being another asain clone of a clone.
I'm getting the feeling that you truly don't know why so many people actually hate this game beyond the stereotypical "asian clone" comment. The game is plagued with many issues from massive exploits/bugs, incredibly shallow classes, very low longevity, and overly expensive cash shop items are just a few of the issues with the game.
Actually, he's right. I have seen a lot of "This game sucks because Perfect World Entertainment made it" comments, and most of the "this game sucks because of the exploits bugs" go into so little detail, it seems more like the people who make those comments are only making them because they think the game sucks because of PWE but want to trick people into thinking that they have more valid reasons.
I have seen plenty of people with valid complaints, but they are fairly few and far between, and do not repeat themselves (actually most of the complaints people have with the game are subjective and are more akin to reasons why they wouldn't like the game, not why the game sucks).
Well unfortunately the exploits that occurred in Neverwinter destroyed every server economies that it was introduced to. Massive enchant duplication and even Astral duping to the point that players now have billions of Astrals. They're not fake and had run rampant in the game for weeks to even months.
Except the astral duping thing was fixed (and rolled back) a while ago and after a bit of searching, the enchant duplication is nothing more than a rumor.
Originally posted by AG-Vuk There are two very significant issues that weight against this game. 1 ) Cryptic 2 ) PWE. I think that pretty well clears it up, and let's you know where I stand on this. Not that anyone cares. except people that make the games. As a consumer, I hold these names in greater contempt then I do Sony's gaming division. That's saying a lot.
Not really, as it still all boils down to the hatred of a game based on the publishers and developers without taking into account the game itself, which means that you hate the game on an ad hominem fallacy, thus rendering your argument for hating the game pretty much null and void.
THAT'S saying a lot.
Not to turn this into a discussion of fault. But your argumentative ad hominem actually would not apply in this instance, because it is based on the presumption that the parties being named have upstanding reputations. In the case of both companies, they do indeed have a documented history of questionable actions and maneuvering, they also have a track record of various mistakes.
Let me put it this way: I am looking for a new car (video game), there are 2 car dealerships in my area, I choose to go to reputable car dealership (gaming developer) in order to purchase my car, as I have distrust for the other one (gaming developer) due to questionable sales ethics.
This is not an irrelevant arguments, it is quite relevant.
Thank you.
Except for the problem of how they got their reputations. People claim that they are bad companies, but their proof is almost always questionable at best and blatantly wrong at worst.
So it is quite irrelevant, and ad hominem is still very much what they are doing.
Except they didnt get their bad reputation from anything other than, oddly enough, their history with gaming and MMO's in specific. The proof is most definitely not questionable, its purely a matter of remembering the things they've done, as inconvenient as that might be for those in question, its more a case of historical record of things they actually did. STO springs to mind almost immediately, and then there is PWE's PWI, its easy to see how these 2 companies ended up together, both have a history of dodgy cash shops etc. But it is a dodgy history, and thats the point.
Originally posted by AG-Vuk There are two very significant issues that weight against this game. 1 ) Cryptic 2 ) PWE. I think that pretty well clears it up, and let's you know where I stand on this. Not that anyone cares. except people that make the games. As a consumer, I hold these names in greater contempt then I do Sony's gaming division. That's saying a lot.
Not really, as it still all boils down to the hatred of a game based on the publishers and developers without taking into account the game itself, which means that you hate the game on an ad hominem fallacy, thus rendering your argument for hating the game pretty much null and void.
THAT'S saying a lot.
Not to turn this into a discussion of fault. But your argumentative ad hominem actually would not apply in this instance, because it is based on the presumption that the parties being named have upstanding reputations. In the case of both companies, they do indeed have a documented history of questionable actions and maneuvering, they also have a track record of various mistakes.
Let me put it this way: I am looking for a new car (video game), there are 2 car dealerships in my area, I choose to go to reputable car dealership (gaming developer) in order to purchase my car, as I have distrust for the other one (gaming developer) due to questionable sales ethics.
This is not an irrelevant arguments, it is quite relevant.
Thank you.
Except for the problem of how they got their reputations. People claim that they are bad companies, but their proof is almost always questionable at best and blatantly wrong at worst.
So it is quite irrelevant, and ad hominem is still very much what they are doing.
for the life of me, I cant honestly imagine how would anyone spin PWE's reputation in a manner that made them look decent
to me, your argument goes like "I like Neverwinter IP, so I will disregard any valid criticism towards the way the game is managed and monetized and will defend it at any cost even when I know Im in the wrong".
if you want my personal opinion, the game is mediocre at best. not particularly bad, not particularly good. if anything it fails short to live up to the expectations of the D&D brand.
but of course, there is also the management-slash-monetization angle to consider, which you clearly wish would not weight at all in people's judgement...newsflash for you, when it comes to F2P games, monetization DOES matter, as it GREATLY impacts the user's experience.
as expected, the monetization model in NWO is all kinds of horrible.
and it isnt even about going for past reputation alone, without looking at the actual impact in the game. NWO makes blatantly clear there are tons of features purposedly designed to make the free gameplay as inconvenient as humanly posssible, only to introduce cash purchases to circumvent them.
that reeks of terrible business to me, and obviously, it brings the (already low) score further down.
Absolutely no character development or character building
Just like a regular D&D game (using 4e)
No multi-classing
Just like a regular D&D game (using 4e)
No feats, what they have are talent trees that all themepark MMOs share and tag it on as "feats"
Just like a regular D&D game (using 4e)
Item mall shop everywhere you look
Just like a regular f2p game
No impacting choices
Just like a regular D&D game
No meaningful trap system
Just like a regular D&D game
No skills, character skills like diplomacy or street wise
Just like a regular D&D game (using 4e)
No Persistent World creation
Just like a regular D&D game
In conclusion, you are complaining about the game playing very similar to a 4e D&D game.
^^Most clueless post ever.
Please don't talk about things you know absolutely nothing about. I'm no fan of 4e but it literally has all the things you claim it doesn't. You might be in the running for dumbest response of the year.
Originally posted by furbans Instanced world where exploration is non-existant Absolutely no character development or character building No multi-classing No feats, what they have are talent trees that all themepark MMOs share and tag it on as "feats" Item mall shop everywhere you look No impacting choices No meaningful trap system No skills, character skills like diplomacy or street wise No Persistent World creationI followed Neverwinter very closely ever since it's announcement when Craptic was still owned by Atari. I had high hopes but in the end it was an utter disgrace as all the iconic features like character development, traps, feats, and other things they completely threw out the window. All what Neverwinter is a F2P mall shop cash grab on a very popular IP of Dungeons and Dragons and the Neverwinter name. The game is just a themepark MMO bastardization of D&D in a D&D skin where the only D&D elements in in lore only. DDO provides a truer D&D experience in so many ways it's not even funny. The only the game has going for is their half assed creation tool that is a shadow of what it should be as players cannot make their own worlds which was the life and blood of the Neverwinter series along with being F2P.Neverwinter lost their customers when players realized everything Craptic promised were half truths, more so when EQN releases.Go ahead and be dellusional if you want about the game's success, but the fact remains is that Neverwinter is one of the worst MMOs released. The game would have a good chance IF they had modeled the game after DDO which is a great D&D game that really delivers the D&D experience. Just that DDO is dated and content output is not all that great and it needs a serious overhaul."Made by D&D fans FOR D&D fans, for the most action pack, most FUN D&D game yet" my friggin ass.You have you answer in the poll, an abysmal 10.6% if offical reviews of 74/100 or user reviews of 5.8/10 were not enough. Give up and accept the truth.
Instanced world where exploration is non-existantJust like a regular D&D gameYou never explored in your D&D (4E) games? I am saddened.Absolutely no character development or character buildingJust like a regular D&D game (using 4e)There may not be much choice, but actual character development was certainly there.No multi-classingJust like a regular D&D game (using 4e)Actually, I think that both games have multi-classing.No feats, what they have are talent trees that all themepark MMOs share and tag it on as "feats"Just like a regular D&D game (using 4e)I disagree. "Feats" in D&D (4E) are handled very differently than Neverwinter handles them. No comparison, really.Item mall shop everywhere you lookJust like a regular f2p gameNo argument here, but does that make it OK?No impacting choicesJust like a regular D&D gameMost definitely wrong. My choices when I played D&D (4E) HAD impact on the world I played in. I am sorry yours did not.No meaningful trap systemJust like a regular D&D gameAgain, wrong. Traps in my D&D (4E) experience had traps that killed and if players did not see them (need a rogue), they died. Have you come across a pit trap with spikes that dropped you 10' down yet? Do you tap the floor in front of you with a 10' pole to see if traps are present? That is a common practice in Table Top D&D games.No skills, character skills like diplomacy or street wiseJust like a regular D&D game (using 4e)You really need to read up on 4E D&D. I'll let you look it up instead of providing a link just to see if you will make the effort. ALL of those skills listed ARE in the (4E) game yet missing in Neverwinter. Why are they missing? Non-combat related skills = boring. There is a lot of skill droppage due to this factor.No Persistent World creationJust like a regular D&D gameI am shaking my head in disbelief here. Nothing you did when playing D&D (4E) had any lasting impact on your world? My group cleared a dungeon and more than likely, it stayed cleared, unless some bandits or some-such moved in afterwards. When we defeated a bad guy, he never "respawned" a little bit later on. We built a house and it stayed in the world. We helped some NPCs and they actually remembered our deeds! Some became friends of our party.In conclusion, you are complaining about the game playing very similar to a 4e D&D game.
Not that similar after all...
I marked your replies in red because they are just so wrong. My rebuttals are in green.
I do not know who your DM is/was, but if that is what your D&D (4E) was like, you missed out on a lot of fun.
Let's add the discrepancy about Encounter and Daily Powers. Not to mention the actual combat. Yea, "Just like a regular D&D game". Have you even played D&D?
Now, I will give you that much of Table Top D&D does not transpose well into an action combat game like Neverwinter. That is no reason to label an MMO D&D if it does not fit. The latest incarnations of D&D have been more and more MMO-like in their rule changes, though, so maybe someday, they will match up better. Not at present, though.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse. - FARGIN_WAR
Originally posted by AG-Vuk There are two very significant issues that weight against this game. 1 ) Cryptic 2 ) PWE. I think that pretty well clears it up, and let's you know where I stand on this. Not that anyone cares. except people that make the games. As a consumer, I hold these names in greater contempt then I do Sony's gaming division. That's saying a lot.
Not really, as it still all boils down to the hatred of a game based on the publishers and developers without taking into account the game itself, which means that you hate the game on an ad hominem fallacy, thus rendering your argument for hating the game pretty much null and void.
THAT'S saying a lot.
Not to turn this into a discussion of fault. But your argumentative ad hominem actually would not apply in this instance, because it is based on the presumption that the parties being named have upstanding reputations. In the case of both companies, they do indeed have a documented history of questionable actions and maneuvering, they also have a track record of various mistakes.
Let me put it this way: I am looking for a new car (video game), there are 2 car dealerships in my area, I choose to go to reputable car dealership (gaming developer) in order to purchase my car, as I have distrust for the other one (gaming developer) due to questionable sales ethics.
This is not an irrelevant arguments, it is quite relevant.
Thank you.
Except for the problem of how they got their reputations. People claim that they are bad companies, but their proof is almost always questionable at best and blatantly wrong at worst.
So it is quite irrelevant, and ad hominem is still very much what they are doing.
Disregarding a documented series of bad business practices does not mean they do not exist. Claiming people have irrelevant arguments due to their choice to avoid said companies due to these business practices is either an attempt to antagonize or a complete misunderstanding of the use of ad hominem. Correct me if I am wrong, but did you just learn this saying, and now attempt to use it whenever you can?
Originally posted by AG-Vuk There are two very significant issues that weight against this game. 1 ) Cryptic 2 ) PWE. I think that pretty well clears it up, and let's you know where I stand on this. Not that anyone cares. except people that make the games. As a consumer, I hold these names in greater contempt then I do Sony's gaming division. That's saying a lot.
Not really, as it still all boils down to the hatred of a game based on the publishers and developers without taking into account the game itself, which means that you hate the game on an ad hominem fallacy, thus rendering your argument for hating the game pretty much null and void.
THAT'S saying a lot.
Not to turn this into a discussion of fault. But your argumentative ad hominem actually would not apply in this instance, because it is based on the presumption that the parties being named have upstanding reputations. In the case of both companies, they do indeed have a documented history of questionable actions and maneuvering, they also have a track record of various mistakes.
Let me put it this way: I am looking for a new car (video game), there are 2 car dealerships in my area, I choose to go to reputable car dealership (gaming developer) in order to purchase my car, as I have distrust for the other one (gaming developer) due to questionable sales ethics.
This is not an irrelevant arguments, it is quite relevant.
Thank you.
Except for the problem of how they got their reputations. People claim that they are bad companies, but their proof is almost always questionable at best and blatantly wrong at worst.
So it is quite irrelevant, and ad hominem is still very much what they are doing.
Disregarding a documented series of bad business practices does not mean they do not exist. Claiming people have irrelevant arguments due to their choice to avoid said companies due to these business practices is either an attempt to antagonize or a complete misunderstanding of the use of ad hominem. Correct me if I am wrong, but did you just learn this saying, and now attempt to use it whenever you can?
I am not disregarding anything, just pointing out that claiming that a game developed/produced by companies is bad because they perceive the company developing/producing the game is bad is a logical fallacy (so yes you are wrong).
Besides, where are these practices documented? Where is the link?
Bumped from an open topic GOTY thread, into this thread where anyone who doesn't think Neverwinter is GOTY material gets argued with by the OP.
Not impressed.
Ken Fisher - Semi retired old fart Network Administrator, now working in Network Security. I don't Forum PVP. If you feel I've attacked you, it was probably by accident. When I don't understand, I ask. Such is not intended as criticism.
Bumped from an open topic GOTY thread, into this thread where anyone who doesn't think Neverwinter is GOTY material gets argued with by the OP.
Not impressed.
Yeah, I sent msg requesting unlock. This thread has no poll, and not even talking about the game of the year. It's talking about how Neverwinter is/is not. Hopefully it will be unlocked soon.
WIth the discussion of all of what poeple wantm which seems like Vanguard styled Hardcore MMo, people are saying the WoW version of FF , the dumbed down water version of the original, is what players want and a dumbed down version of the ooriginal deserves to be mmo goty cause it rehashed the same crap, made it easier and wowified it ?
Something seems out of place when true releases aren't going to be recognized , even if they werent the best out of the decade...
it just tells you that those releases were so beyond terrible that people likes to pretend they didnt exist
Path of exile was much more fun than this shitty game ..
I don't like a top down look in MMOs but they did a great job of the graphics all the same. For the gaming ethos that you can see in everything from their cash shop to the skill tree:
Originally posted by AG-Vuk There are two very significant issues that weight against this game. 1 ) Cryptic 2 ) PWE. I think that pretty well clears it up, and let's you know where I stand on this. Not that anyone cares. except people that make the games. As a consumer, I hold these names in greater contempt then I do Sony's gaming division. That's saying a lot.
Not really, as it still all boils down to the hatred of a game based on the publishers and developers without taking into account the game itself, which means that you hate the game on an ad hominem fallacy, thus rendering your argument for hating the game pretty much null and void.
THAT'S saying a lot.
Not to turn this into a discussion of fault. But your argumentative ad hominem actually would not apply in this instance, because it is based on the presumption that the parties being named have upstanding reputations. In the case of both companies, they do indeed have a documented history of questionable actions and maneuvering, they also have a track record of various mistakes.
Let me put it this way: I am looking for a new car (video game), there are 2 car dealerships in my area, I choose to go to reputable car dealership (gaming developer) in order to purchase my car, as I have distrust for the other one (gaming developer) due to questionable sales ethics.
This is not an irrelevant arguments, it is quite relevant.
Thank you.
Except for the problem of how they got their reputations. People claim that they are bad companies, but their proof is almost always questionable at best and blatantly wrong at worst.
So it is quite irrelevant, and ad hominem is still very much what they are doing.
Disregarding a documented series of bad business practices does not mean they do not exist. Claiming people have irrelevant arguments due to their choice to avoid said companies due to these business practices is either an attempt to antagonize or a complete misunderstanding of the use of ad hominem. Correct me if I am wrong, but did you just learn this saying, and now attempt to use it whenever you can?
I am not disregarding anything, just pointing out that claiming that a game developed/produced by companies is bad because they perceive the company developing/producing the game is bad is a logical fallacy (so yes you are wrong).
Besides, where are these practices documented? Where is the link?
You're assumption is, that based on my criticism of Cryptic/PWE, I've only played one game. Which, you would be so very mistaken. I played enough of their game to discern patterns and design philosophies, that allowed made me formulate my opinion. They are cut rate game developers. Cryptic/PWE just like Sony or any developer is predisposed to certain tendencies in their designs. It just happens that I've grown to despise them based on my experiences. They've neither, done or changed anything to alter my perception. Sony is now a console game maker, they've moved that way completely. I use them as an example , because they've so moved out of realm of my interest as far as game design goes, that they no longer interest me. So I don't bother with them. What they do and design is strictly for console distribution. Cryptic talks a good game and delivers a poorly produced simplistic game that has at best a months entertainment value, based on concepts, engine carried over from CoH.
As someone that has played this game since early beta, and has just recently uninstalled it. My issues with it are relatively straight forward.
The lack of content is disappointing. The new areas they create, while attractively designed, are just clones of the area before it. The whole end game content system is based on a daily system, which is identical to the area before it. You go into instanced areas where you kill various monsters or pick up various highlighted items. You then return and hand the quests in that give you some form of daily point or token, which can be used to open other areas or ability boosts for your character.
I initially enjoyed the process, until they released the next area, which was literally a clone of the previous, they just changed the way the environment looked.
My next issue was the atrocious enchantment system for armor and weapons. The original was bad enough in terms that in order to get the item you needed to successfully make the higher level enchantments you needed to spend money to purchase keys to open lockboxes, or purchase special packs from the cash shop. The populous revolted in regard to this and they decided to change it to a system where you stack enchantments to create higher level ones, however, the amount you now require in order to get to top tier enchantments is disturbingly immense.
The PVP system is not even broken, it is just not well planned out. It suffers from glaring balance issues and bugs, and has so since beta. The lack of variation also does not help.
Finally this game is a casual game, it takes no time or effort to get to the limits of the game. This is a curse that many F2P games suffer from, as they focus majority of their attention on producing frivolous items for the cash shop, which is understandable as this is how they create income. The problem is that it dilutes the community, without features that enforce thriving community interaction, or a more in-depth game-play experience you create a transient community. This means that the game is free and it is casual, you can log into the game and in a matter of days level to maximum level and have your top tier gear set. You can then not play for 2 months and come back to the game and be in the same position, maximum level with a top tier gear set. This creates a community that comes and goes, with no real loyalty or dedication to a game. Or in other words, no community at all.
I could get into the irrelevant things such as lack of character customization in terms of armor and weapon choices, or strange stat builds on certain armor sets. But really those things do not make or break a game for me.
Thank you.
I posted my comments earlier about Neverwinter and that I do like the game and sitll play however I really want to address your post cause I definitely do agree with some of the things you said.
I do have to agree that there is not enough end game content..it's lacking. I was hoping the new area was going to be different than Shan but it's kinda the same.. although it's not as tedious as Shan is.
As far as lockboxes go.. let's be fair here. You don't need to purchase keys or even open boxes to get ahead. It just takes time to do.. like most F2P games.
The enchant system now it definitely does make it harder to get higher enchants. But you can still get the higher ones without spending money. Perfect enchants will definitely take a long time without it but as I said it's still possible to get them without spending cash.
PVP definitely needs a boost. It does need a little bit of an overhaul and more pvp content needs to be added. They definitely need to balance better between pvp and pve. Hopefully they can find a happy medium.
I don't have time at the moment to address some more but I might come back soon and finish this. Thanks
Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what
it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience
because it lacks a few features you prefer."
John Henry Newman: "A man would do nothing if he waited until he could do it so well that no one could find fault."
FreddyNoNose: "A good game needs no defense; a bad game has no defense." "Easily digested content is just as easily forgotten."
LacedOpium: "So the question that begs to be asked is, if you are not interested in
the game mechanics that define the MMORPG genre, then why are you
playing an MMORPG?"
Comments
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
What was the Final Fantasy MMO called that was released in 2010? Was it Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn, as the game released in 2014 was called? If so, I yield to your take on it.
If not, anything called EverQuest is just a rehash of the original game, right? Anything with a "2" after the title is just a rehash of some older game, right? Heck, one could even call any Final Fantasy MMO a rehash of the original one.
There are some MMOs that have made massive changes during their runs, SW:G being one of the top examples with UO close behind. The "NGE" and "CE" for SW:G and the "Trammel" changes certainly changed those games a lot. If a subscription MMO changes to F2P, maybe it should be considered for the year the change took place? I don't think so, because they are calling themselves the same title.
Again, I did not play both of those games. I am only going by what I have read about them and what I've read seems to say that they are 2 very different games.
Logic is fun, though, isn't it?
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Somebody, somewhere has better skills as you have, more experience as you have, is smarter than you, has more friends as you do and can stay online longer. Just pray he's not out to get you.
Except for the problem of how they got their reputations. People claim that they are bad companies, but their proof is almost always questionable at best and blatantly wrong at worst.
So it is quite irrelevant, and ad hominem is still very much what they are doing.
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
Except the astral duping thing was fixed (and rolled back) a while ago and after a bit of searching, the enchant duplication is nothing more than a rumor.
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
Except they didnt get their bad reputation from anything other than, oddly enough, their history with gaming and MMO's in specific. The proof is most definitely not questionable, its purely a matter of remembering the things they've done, as inconvenient as that might be for those in question, its more a case of historical record of things they actually did. STO springs to mind almost immediately, and then there is PWE's PWI, its easy to see how these 2 companies ended up together, both have a history of dodgy cash shops etc. But it is a dodgy history, and thats the point.
for the life of me, I cant honestly imagine how would anyone spin PWE's reputation in a manner that made them look decent
to me, your argument goes like "I like Neverwinter IP, so I will disregard any valid criticism towards the way the game is managed and monetized and will defend it at any cost even when I know Im in the wrong".
if you want my personal opinion, the game is mediocre at best. not particularly bad, not particularly good. if anything it fails short to live up to the expectations of the D&D brand.
but of course, there is also the management-slash-monetization angle to consider, which you clearly wish would not weight at all in people's judgement...newsflash for you, when it comes to F2P games, monetization DOES matter, as it GREATLY impacts the user's experience.
as expected, the monetization model in NWO is all kinds of horrible.
and it isnt even about going for past reputation alone, without looking at the actual impact in the game. NWO makes blatantly clear there are tons of features purposedly designed to make the free gameplay as inconvenient as humanly posssible, only to introduce cash purchases to circumvent them.
that reeks of terrible business to me, and obviously, it brings the (already low) score further down.
This
^^Most clueless post ever.
Please don't talk about things you know absolutely nothing about. I'm no fan of 4e but it literally has all the things you claim it doesn't. You might be in the running for dumbest response of the year.
I marked your replies in red because they are just so wrong. My rebuttals are in green.
I do not know who your DM is/was, but if that is what your D&D (4E) was like, you missed out on a lot of fun.
Let's add the discrepancy about Encounter and Daily Powers. Not to mention the actual combat. Yea, "Just like a regular D&D game". Have you even played D&D?
Now, I will give you that much of Table Top D&D does not transpose well into an action combat game like Neverwinter. That is no reason to label an MMO D&D if it does not fit. The latest incarnations of D&D have been more and more MMO-like in their rule changes, though, so maybe someday, they will match up better. Not at present, though.
- Al
Personally the only modern MMORPG trend that annoys me is the idea that MMOs need to be designed in a way to attract people who don't actually like MMOs. Which to me makes about as much sense as someone trying to figure out a way to get vegetarians to eat at their steakhouse.- FARGIN_WAR
Disregarding a documented series of bad business practices does not mean they do not exist. Claiming people have irrelevant arguments due to their choice to avoid said companies due to these business practices is either an attempt to antagonize or a complete misunderstanding of the use of ad hominem. Correct me if I am wrong, but did you just learn this saying, and now attempt to use it whenever you can?
I am not disregarding anything, just pointing out that claiming that a game developed/produced by companies is bad because they perceive the company developing/producing the game is bad is a logical fallacy (so yes you are wrong).
Besides, where are these practices documented? Where is the link?
Since when is Tuesday a direction?
Grumbling at thread merge.
Bumped from an open topic GOTY thread, into this thread where anyone who doesn't think Neverwinter is GOTY material gets argued with by the OP.
Not impressed.
Yeah, I sent msg requesting unlock. This thread has no poll, and not even talking about the game of the year. It's talking about how Neverwinter is/is not. Hopefully it will be unlocked soon.
it just tells you that those releases were so beyond terrible that people likes to pretend they didnt exist
Scary thing is, that means that Neverwinter provided me with more entertainment than any other MMORPG released in 2013.
I don't like a top down look in MMOs but they did a great job of the graphics all the same. For the gaming ethos that you can see in everything from their cash shop to the skill tree:
PoE for game of the year.
You're assumption is, that based on my criticism of Cryptic/PWE, I've only played one game. Which, you would be so very mistaken. I played enough of their game to discern patterns and design philosophies, that allowed made me formulate my opinion. They are cut rate game developers. Cryptic/PWE just like Sony or any developer is predisposed to certain tendencies in their designs. It just happens that I've grown to despise them based on my experiences. They've neither, done or changed anything to alter my perception. Sony is now a console game maker, they've moved that way completely. I use them as an example , because they've so moved out of realm of my interest as far as game design goes, that they no longer interest me. So I don't bother with them. What they do and design is strictly for console distribution. Cryptic talks a good game and delivers a poorly produced simplistic game that has at best a months entertainment value, based on concepts, engine carried over from CoH.
QFT
I posted my comments earlier about Neverwinter and that I do like the game and sitll play however I really want to address your post cause I definitely do agree with some of the things you said.
I do have to agree that there is not enough end game content..it's lacking. I was hoping the new area was going to be different than Shan but it's kinda the same.. although it's not as tedious as Shan is.
As far as lockboxes go.. let's be fair here. You don't need to purchase keys or even open boxes to get ahead. It just takes time to do.. like most F2P games.
The enchant system now it definitely does make it harder to get higher enchants. But you can still get the higher ones without spending money. Perfect enchants will definitely take a long time without it but as I said it's still possible to get them without spending cash.
PVP definitely needs a boost. It does need a little bit of an overhaul and more pvp content needs to be added. They definitely need to balance better between pvp and pve. Hopefully they can find a happy medium.
I don't have time at the moment to address some more but I might come back soon and finish this. Thanks
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Kyleran: "Now there's the real trick, learning to accept and enjoy a game for what it offers rather than pass on what might be a great playing experience because it lacks a few features you prefer."
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