To be honest I am bored of the sense of entitlement amongst many F2P players. Why should they get a product for free? I can't quite work out how the wiring went so wrong in their brain (or how a general free-loading culture on the internet) would enable someone to believe that they should experience for a free a product that cost many millions to develop.
I think the SWTOR system has it about right. You get a very limited experience of the game as a F2Player but need to buy unlocks or subscribe to experience the whole game. And if people don't like that and want to play for free they should go and find another game.
That said, as a subscriber what I do find mildly irritating are some of the unlocks you have to pay for over and above your subscription. Don't get me wrong if it was xp boosts or the like I wouldn't mind, but as a subscriber you should not be paying for race unlocks or inventory expansions. I can only assume that SWTOR recognises that the whales are likely to subscribe and then spend more cash shop money on top of that so they keep on the hook; and this for me is a little mercenary.
The above paragraph also sums up my entire problem with the F2P model in that you have a few whales paying for a lot of freeloaders.
I also like to see restrictions on F2Players as it allows those who are interested in playing a game to subscribe and do so without having to abide those people who jump on a free character in order to troll and clog up chat with sewage.
Didn't mean to write an essay, but they are my thoughts on the subject.
No. It is not too much. It is a free world. There is no "too much" or "too little" in general. EA is free to put whatever restriction they want on games they own.
Players, OTOH, have the freedom of not to bother with such games.
Personally i don't play TOR, but i fully support EA's right to do whatever with their property.
I agree.
If you want to play SWTOR as a single player game to the end you can for free. All the restrictions put in place it can be done.
If you want to play it as an MMO/with people you get charged.
Also most unlocks can be bought with CC's. You can play for free if you grind 3 gathering skills and sell on the GTN.
I don't think you realize how funny the subject of this post is, which basically says I'm not getting enough free stuff for free. I want more free stuff.
But I want to thank you for summing up the mindset of the average F2P player and what is so broken about F2P games in general.
To be honest I feel all FTP mmorpgs should follow this pattern I believe that catering to freeloaders is not a positive step for mmorpgs. In my opinion the only valid reason for a ftp model is to allow people to trial the game and for that purpose the restrictions placed by SWTOR makes sense. Play the game for a few levels if you like it PAY FOR IT.
These games need steady revenue to enable them to develop and grow so I am sorry but I have no sympathy for people protesting that they want more for nothing.
To be honest I feel all FTP mmorpgs should follow this pattern I believe that catering to freeloaders is not a positive step for mmorpgs. In my opinion the only valid reason for a ftp model is to allow people to trial the game and for that purpose the restrictions placed by SWTOR makes sense. Play the game for a few levels if you like it PAY FOR IT.
These games need steady revenue to enable them to develop and grow so I am sorry but I have no sympathy for people protesting that they want more for nothing.
+1
I am also really getting tired of people who constantly complain about how they are not getting enough 'free' stuff.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
Originally posted by nariusseldon No. It is not too much. It is a free world. There is no "too much" or "too little" in general. EA is free to put whatever restriction they want on games they own.Players, OTOH, have the freedom of not to bother with such games.Personally i don't play TOR, but i fully support EA's right to do whatever with their property.
This is probably the closest to what I'm thinking. There can't be too many restrictions in something that's free. It's free. The only way it's too restrictive is if it drives players away.
If SWToR has more players now than it did before, and it's making more money now than it did before, and in addition to all this there are many players who are enjoying the game without paying anything, then no, the free players are not being restricted too much. There is literally no downside to this scenario because everyone involved benefits. Well, except the people like me who have no interest in playing the game at all, at any price, but that just means I can go play something I want to play.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by Quizzical Originally posted by gluursI don't want to Subscribe to any game other than WoW but i cant because i don't have any money.
I think I found the problem. Cancel your WoW subscription and it will free up money to subscribe to something else instead.
Do you really expect a company to give away everything for free in a free trial?
In the interest of getting the most bang for the buck, gluurs could take a month off of WoW, spend that $15 in SWToR's cash shop unlocking things that are a permanent unlock instead of ongoing costs, and then resub to WoW after that one month. Then while they are playing WoW, they can play the free part of SWToR with fewer restrictions, and possibly enjoy the game more. At no time would they have any fewer games to play than they have now, and after that first month they would have twice as many games to play, at least for a month or two.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Is this thread a joke? How can FREE be too restrictive? It is FREE. If a stranger gives me a free car then i expect it to be a piece a junk and dont complain that it is not a BMW. They are giving you something for free. How about you go develop a product and spend millions of dollars on it and give it away for free.
Of course it isn't a joke. The best F2P models are those that make money off of cosmetics, not off of core gameplay mechanics. If you have to charge for core game mechanics you should be charging for the higher level stuff. I played SWTOR for a while but to be honest the game is unplayable with the F2P model that they have in place. Probably the worst model of any game I've tried. The game certainly isn't worth paying for which is why it was a failure and had to go F2P in the first place.
THIS game is not even worth discussing as well as it restrictions as well as their CRAB community and pugs worst pug in MMO I even seen. Not even worth me explaining and going into details.
Any game that creates walls between the community is too restrictive.
Chat, email, guild, xp, skills
Not one of those things should be restricted in any game. The only things that should be charged are cosmetics, expansions, DLCs and end game. EA hasn't produced a single F2P game worth playing, same for Funcom and Sony. Though Sony will be with EQ next and landmark.
The very idea of an MMORPG is community, if you limit players access to that community with something like a chat restriction I cant help but think those in charge have severe brain damage.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Call me crazy but I don't see a problem with the F2P model of swtor. Games aren't cheap to make or run and they have to lure people into buying and subs somehow. If you could access most of the game when you want and how you want for free then why bother paying and then who pays the bills. Yes you have to pay for almost every little thing unless you get a sub but games like WoW for instance don't even have a F2P model. F2P models like swtor are really more of unlimited time length trials to try and push you to subbing. They hope you get hooked for a bit, some spend some money on cartel coins, then realize every month you spend so much on CC that you sub.
My issue is that as a sub you still get so much pressure to pay more in the cartel market so you *stay cool*. IMO they market should have almost nothing a sub can't get for free and that doesn't mean dishing out 20 mill for some rare item from a pack as *free* to subs.
Yea games are not cheap to make but limiting customer support to your "customers" is complete crap.
"Fear & Desire are weapons in my life's pursuit" @KrewellaJahan
Any game that creates walls between the community is too restrictive.
Chat, email, guild, xp, skills
Not one of those things should be restricted in any game. The only things that should be charged are cosmetics, expansions, DLCs and end game. EA hasn't produced a single F2P game worth playing, same for Funcom and Sony. Though Sony will be with EQ next and landmark.
The very idea of an MMORPG is community, if you limit players access to that community with something like a chat restriction I cant help but think those in charge have severe brain damage.
and restricting people to talk to support, i could live with the xp issue but not customer support.
"Fear & Desire are weapons in my life's pursuit" @KrewellaJahan
The problem is people want things completely free. To hell with the devs and the entire gaming market. They should all have two jobs, one to support them and their families, and the other to work for us! /shrug
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Any game that creates walls between the community is too restrictive.
Chat, email, guild, xp, skills
Not one of those things should be restricted in any game. The only things that should be charged are cosmetics, expansions, DLCs and end game. EA hasn't produced a single F2P game worth playing, same for Funcom and Sony. Though Sony will be with EQ next and landmark.
The very idea of an MMORPG is community, if you limit players access to that community with something like a chat restriction I cant help but think those in charge have severe brain damage.
and restricting people to talk to support, i could live with the xp issue but not customer support.
Is somebody who does not buy anything from company a "customer"? Besides... customer support costs money too.
Any game that creates walls between the community is too restrictive.
Chat, email, guild, xp, skills
Not one of those things should be restricted in any game. The only things that should be charged are cosmetics, expansions, DLCs and end game. EA hasn't produced a single F2P game worth playing, same for Funcom and Sony. Though Sony will be with EQ next and landmark.
The very idea of an MMORPG is community, if you limit players access to that community with something like a chat restriction I cant help but think those in charge have severe brain damage.
and restricting people to talk to support, i could live with the xp issue but not customer support.
Is somebody who does not buy anything from company a "customer"?
in my opinion yes, to you maybe i don't know you.
"Fear & Desire are weapons in my life's pursuit" @KrewellaJahan
and restricting people to talk to support, i could live with the xp issue but not customer support.
Is somebody who does not buy anything from company a "customer"?
Is somebody that is continually hitting walls ever going to become a "customer"?
Its like "Hey we have this great product and we want you to buy into it, but we are going to make damn sure you never get to a point of enjoying it unless you give us money..........but its free!".
Can only be described as stupid. The very reason why F2P by western companies cant touch the money made in Asia where they have a clue. You get people INTO the game and community, you suck them in and THEN MAKE THEM A CUSTOMER by offering more.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Originally posted by JJ82 Any game that creates walls between the community is too restrictive.
Chat, email, guild, xp, skills
Not one of those things should be restricted in any game. The only things that should be charged are cosmetics, expansions, DLCs and end game. EA hasn't produced a single F2P game worth playing, same for Funcom and Sony. Though Sony will be with EQ next and landmark.
The very idea of an MMORPG is community, if you limit players access to that community with something like a chat restriction I cant help but think those in charge have severe brain damage.
I agree with most of this but Planetside 2 is definitely worth playing and it isn't too restrictive at all with F2P. That and Path of Exile are good examples of F2P done right. GW2 does B2P well. No game does sub fee well since it is a ripoff in this day and age but Eve probably has the best sub system.
LoL, Hearthstone, MMDOC etc are all other examples of free to play done well though they aren't MMORPGs.
The only restriction I think that is too restrictive is the epics. You should be able to use any gear you get. I'd rather pay $15 a month somewhere else and get a bunch of things, than pay $15 a month, just so I can use epics that I work to get in the first place.
Originally posted by gluurs Originally posted by Blazer6992The restrictions are the reason why I quit. I can't play like that.
Did you switch to another game? and if so what game? try aion. it has a great f2p model and is a beautiful game. they also have an xpac launching this year
Comments
To be honest I am bored of the sense of entitlement amongst many F2P players. Why should they get a product for free? I can't quite work out how the wiring went so wrong in their brain (or how a general free-loading culture on the internet) would enable someone to believe that they should experience for a free a product that cost many millions to develop.
I think the SWTOR system has it about right. You get a very limited experience of the game as a F2Player but need to buy unlocks or subscribe to experience the whole game. And if people don't like that and want to play for free they should go and find another game.
That said, as a subscriber what I do find mildly irritating are some of the unlocks you have to pay for over and above your subscription. Don't get me wrong if it was xp boosts or the like I wouldn't mind, but as a subscriber you should not be paying for race unlocks or inventory expansions. I can only assume that SWTOR recognises that the whales are likely to subscribe and then spend more cash shop money on top of that so they keep on the hook; and this for me is a little mercenary.
The above paragraph also sums up my entire problem with the F2P model in that you have a few whales paying for a lot of freeloaders.
I also like to see restrictions on F2Players as it allows those who are interested in playing a game to subscribe and do so without having to abide those people who jump on a free character in order to troll and clog up chat with sewage.
Didn't mean to write an essay, but they are my thoughts on the subject.
I agree.
If you want to play SWTOR as a single player game to the end you can for free. All the restrictions put in place it can be done.
If you want to play it as an MMO/with people you get charged.
Also most unlocks can be bought with CC's. You can play for free if you grind 3 gathering skills and sell on the GTN.
I don't think you realize how funny the subject of this post is, which basically says I'm not getting enough free stuff for free. I want more free stuff.
But I want to thank you for summing up the mindset of the average F2P player and what is so broken about F2P games in general.
^ Amen.......
I think I found the problem. Cancel your WoW subscription and it will free up money to subscribe to something else instead.
Do you really expect a company to give away everything for free in a free trial?
+1
I am also really getting tired of people who constantly complain about how they are not getting enough 'free' stuff.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
This is probably the closest to what I'm thinking. There can't be too many restrictions in something that's free. It's free. The only way it's too restrictive is if it drives players away.
If SWToR has more players now than it did before, and it's making more money now than it did before, and in addition to all this there are many players who are enjoying the game without paying anything, then no, the free players are not being restricted too much. There is literally no downside to this scenario because everyone involved benefits. Well, except the people like me who have no interest in playing the game at all, at any price, but that just means I can go play something I want to play.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Do you really expect a company to give away everything for free in a free trial?
In the interest of getting the most bang for the buck, gluurs could take a month off of WoW, spend that $15 in SWToR's cash shop unlocking things that are a permanent unlock instead of ongoing costs, and then resub to WoW after that one month. Then while they are playing WoW, they can play the free part of SWToR with fewer restrictions, and possibly enjoy the game more. At no time would they have any fewer games to play than they have now, and after that first month they would have twice as many games to play, at least for a month or two.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
About a million of them apparently.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
The restrictions on Preferred are fine, especially so if you buy a couple of unlocks using credits off the GTN. Free is definitely too restrictive
Of course it isn't a joke. The best F2P models are those that make money off of cosmetics, not off of core gameplay mechanics. If you have to charge for core game mechanics you should be charging for the higher level stuff. I played SWTOR for a while but to be honest the game is unplayable with the F2P model that they have in place. Probably the worst model of any game I've tried. The game certainly isn't worth paying for which is why it was a failure and had to go F2P in the first place.
THIS game is not even worth discussing as well as it restrictions as well as their CRAB community and pugs worst pug in MMO I even seen. Not even worth me explaining and going into details.
JUST IMAGINE IT DOSE'T EXIST
Any game that creates walls between the community is too restrictive.
Chat, email, guild, xp, skills
Not one of those things should be restricted in any game. The only things that should be charged are cosmetics, expansions, DLCs and end game. EA hasn't produced a single F2P game worth playing, same for Funcom and Sony. Though Sony will be with EQ next and landmark.
The very idea of an MMORPG is community, if you limit players access to that community with something like a chat restriction I cant help but think those in charge have severe brain damage.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
Yea games are not cheap to make but limiting customer support to your "customers" is complete crap.
"Fear & Desire are weapons in my life's pursuit"
@KrewellaJahan
and restricting people to talk to support, i could live with the xp issue but not customer support.
"Fear & Desire are weapons in my life's pursuit"
@KrewellaJahan
Death is nothing to us, since when we are, Death has not come, and when death has come, we are not.
Is somebody who does not buy anything from company a "customer"? Besides... customer support costs money too.
Sith Warrior - Story of Hate and Love http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxKrlwXt7Ao
Imperial Agent - Rise of Cipher Nine http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBBj3eJWBvU&feature=youtu.be
Imperial Agent - Hunt for the Eagle Part 1http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQqjYYU128E
in my opinion yes, to you maybe i don't know you.
"Fear & Desire are weapons in my life's pursuit"
@KrewellaJahan
Is somebody that is continually hitting walls ever going to become a "customer"?
Its like "Hey we have this great product and we want you to buy into it, but we are going to make damn sure you never get to a point of enjoying it unless you give us money..........but its free!".
Can only be described as stupid. The very reason why F2P by western companies cant touch the money made in Asia where they have a clue. You get people INTO the game and community, you suck them in and THEN MAKE THEM A CUSTOMER by offering more.
"People who tell you youre awesome are useless. No, dangerous.
They are worse than useless because you want to believe them. They will defend you against critiques that are valid. They will seduce you into believing you are done learning, or into thinking that your work is better than it actually is." ~Raph Koster
http://www.raphkoster.com/2013/10/14/on-getting-criticism/
I agree with most of this but Planetside 2 is definitely worth playing and it isn't too restrictive at all with F2P. That and Path of Exile are good examples of F2P done right. GW2 does B2P well. No game does sub fee well since it is a ripoff in this day and age but Eve probably has the best sub system.
LoL, Hearthstone, MMDOC etc are all other examples of free to play done well though they aren't MMORPGs.
try aion. it has a great f2p model and is a beautiful game. they also have an xpac launching this year