Wheres the poop? I smell something, and I see a lot of deflecting and defending going on, but I don't see a lot of action. Where is the PROOF that population is healthy? If its so great, why do they hide the numbers behind fake population levels?
Arent we going to be right back here in a year saying nothing has really changed?
All games obfuscate their numbers to a certain extent. All the numbers actually shown are partially lying anyway.
You know what's weird? Looking at my Civ 5 achievements on Steam, comparing to other players and realizing that almost a third of the players have =never even started a city=. That's crazy. Are they ever going to come and announce 'We sold this many copies, but actually, this significantly smaller number is the amount who've played the game even 5 minutes'? Doubt it.
Here's the only things really important in a game population:
1. Can I find people to play with.
2. Does it have enough people that it's able to continue as a functioning game and not close down.
The problem with 1. is that all day long you're going to fill the thread with people saying 'I play the game and there's nobody anywhere. All I could find was tumbleweeds in every city.' and 'I play the game and there's a TRILLION people, standing right where I am. I'd take a screenshot but my computer just EXPLODED'. It's a 'he said' 'she said' situation, and I'm not going to get into it because it's silly, it's mostly people saying 'I experienced this' and other people saying 'no you didn't'.
2. can be measured by looking at the health of the company and the gaming infrastructure and releases, so that isn't purely opinions and personal experience batling it out. Here's what we DO know.
2a: Arenanet currently has more employees than it did at release. If the game is failing, this state OBVIOUSLY cannot last much longer, unless you are willing to propose that NCSoft is actually running GW2 as a charity, out of the kindness of their hearts and goodwill towards man.
2b: They still have the same amount of servers, and they have not changed their payment model. The first one doesn't necessarily mean much (See: Obfuscating numbers), but that pushes this into the same personal opinion category. The payment model hasn't changed, and if the game isn't doing well enough, this is often one of the solutions used. (See: SWTOR, RIFT, TSW, and many other games slightly less recent)
2c: Releases. They claim to be working on more. If nothing happens in March/April, after the close of the current Living Story season, this could definitely be a sign of growing problems. On the other hand, if there ARE major releases, and it keeps their monetary stream healthy, then apparently they're still doing fine. A lot hinges on this point, actually, if they can show that they can continue to release things, and get the desired response (Customers) (Or to put it more cynically, money)
Sounds like excuses. The only possible reason they cant tell us exactly how many people are logged into a given server at a given time is that some people would think it looks bad, thus hurting their sales.
AFAIK EVE is the only MMO out there that isn't scared.
AFAIK GW2 revenue was higher than EVE by some 60% in 2013. Anet has 350 workers. CCP has 550.
I'm sure GW2 is very very scared.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Love seeing the same people who hated the game from day 1 still hating the game.
I enjoy being unbiased with this.
In order for GW2 to get me and my wife back ethusiastic about the game, we'd have to see the following changes.
1. The personal story needs to be revamped and beefed up. NEither one of us are ethusiastic to continue the personal story after level 60, as the story feels more about the other dude than you. And the dragon fight is really lame.
2. We really liked the scarlet invasions before they became loot fests. There were ways that Arenanet could have designed these to cater to both crowds, instead no one wanted to complete them in the end.
3. Failure and consequences would be nice. This was what made GW1 shine.
This game is just way too "light" for me. Light character/skill progression. Light travel with instant click on the map sillyness. Light sounds, not many things feel like it has much weight behind it in combat. Light exploration with map icons revealing everything removing the sense of exploring unknown.
It was alarming when they kept repeating during the development how they have stripped basically every unconvenient feature from the game to make sure it's FUN (or boring/effortless)! This means everything is "light", kind of easy too. I'd love it to be an adventure for a human character to travel to norn lands, but now it's just "enter main city, hop into asura gate, hop into next gate, boom you're there".
No mounts because they are unneccesary? A big warning sign about the traveling and adventuring mechanics of the game.
Everything is handheld, easy, and kind of soulless. I dont regret buying the game, I played engineer to lvl68 and few other classes to their mid fourties, but having everything marked on your map before you get there, immersion destroying travel system, and abilities progression ending at lvl20, makes it a boring grind upwards. No other factions out there to stir things up, just FFA single faction PvE, even the instanced PvP is kinda boring with basically fighting your own "faction" who just have different coloured name tags.
A bit boring concept all considered.
Though I should mention there's a ton of things I love in this game, most of the daily XP boost system, crafting XP system, many abilities and combat styles, most of the time the graphics, the cities and smaller villages/posts, the "questing" system (but I'd still like traditional quests along with hearts), dyes, and much much more, there's just way too big core fail features smashing the experience to bits for me.
I am just laughing at the naysayers. Many of them said, 'We want a living World'. Well the Living Story is an attempt to try and give that. Then they say, we don't wont that now, we want what we want. The problem is, they don't know what they want. FF game? NastyWinter? I tried both and they were awful waste of code. Nothing coming out is piquing my interest.
Complaining is a common part of the human condition, it is so funny that people make it seem A.Net stole their milk money or something like that.
The game is B2P, like the games of old. That is a tried and true business model.
Take it easy now no need to flaunt your double standards. Just like how you think that FF or nastywinter (you must really hate it) was a waste of code and horrible games..others too have the right to express their negative opinions about GW2.
I bet Cryptic and SE didn't steal your milk money but you still seem quite angry that you had to play and endure those games. A lot of people feel the same about GW2 and yeah you are right complaining is part of human nature and so is hypocricy..actually both go hand in hand.
Also i would like to know what games of old you are talking about in MMO genre which were B2P and hence made it a tried and true business. Please do tell.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.' -Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid." -Luke McKinney
My issues with the LIving Social is that they are the only area in the game sometimes where I can't bring a buddy or two with me (unless its a new 5 man dungeon). The living stuff should scale with any size party to encourage people to come back and "bring friends with them".
Wheres the poop? I smell something, and I see a lot of deflecting and defending going on, but I don't see a lot of action. Where is the PROOF that population is healthy? If its so great, why do they hide the numbers behind fake population levels?
Arent we going to be right back here in a year saying nothing has really changed?
All games obfuscate their numbers to a certain extent. All the numbers actually shown are partially lying anyway.
You know what's weird? Looking at my Civ 5 achievements on Steam, comparing to other players and realizing that almost a third of the players have =never even started a city=. That's crazy. Are they ever going to come and announce 'We sold this many copies, but actually, this significantly smaller number is the amount who've played the game even 5 minutes'? Doubt it.
Here's the only things really important in a game population:
1. Can I find people to play with.
2. Does it have enough people that it's able to continue as a functioning game and not close down.
The problem with 1. is that all day long you're going to fill the thread with people saying 'I play the game and there's nobody anywhere. All I could find was tumbleweeds in every city.' and 'I play the game and there's a TRILLION people, standing right where I am. I'd take a screenshot but my computer just EXPLODED'. It's a 'he said' 'she said' situation, and I'm not going to get into it because it's silly, it's mostly people saying 'I experienced this' and other people saying 'no you didn't'.
2. can be measured by looking at the health of the company and the gaming infrastructure and releases, so that isn't purely opinions and personal experience batling it out. Here's what we DO know.
2a: Arenanet currently has more employees than it did at release. If the game is failing, this state OBVIOUSLY cannot last much longer, unless you are willing to propose that NCSoft is actually running GW2 as a charity, out of the kindness of their hearts and goodwill towards man.
2b: They still have the same amount of servers, and they have not changed their payment model. The first one doesn't necessarily mean much (See: Obfuscating numbers), but that pushes this into the same personal opinion category. The payment model hasn't changed, and if the game isn't doing well enough, this is often one of the solutions used. (See: SWTOR, RIFT, TSW, and many other games slightly less recent)
2c: Releases. They claim to be working on more. If nothing happens in March/April, after the close of the current Living Story season, this could definitely be a sign of growing problems. On the other hand, if there ARE major releases, and it keeps their monetary stream healthy, then apparently they're still doing fine. A lot hinges on this point, actually, if they can show that they can continue to release things, and get the desired response (Customers) (Or to put it more cynically, money)
Sounds like excuses. The only possible reason they cant tell us exactly how many people are logged into a given server at a given time is that some people would think it looks bad, thus hurting their sales.
AFAIK EVE is the only MMO out there that isn't scared.
No, EVE hides theirs too. It just works to EVE's advantage to show the numbers of all those PLEX accounts being controlled by 1 person. But the fact is, The number of Subs in EVE are way over bloated when compared to the number of unique players.
The fact that you have to compare GW2's revenue (which is little over a year old) to a game that is niche and 10 years old, should tell you how well GW2 is doing. Come back to me in a year or two. And let us discuss these stats again. If it is anything like GW1, it will be almost nothing.
Oh by the way, can you compare GW2 revenue last quarter to Eve revenue last quarter? You know what I will do it for you:
Nice false comparison, mainly because CCP is working on multiple games. So you are trying to compare the development team of 3-4 games, to one? Nice try.
The fact that you have to compare GW2's revenue (which is little over a year old) to a game that is niche and 10 years old, should tell you how well GW2 is doing. Come back to me in a year or two. And let us discuss these stats again. If it is anything like GW1, it will be almost nothing.
Oh by the way, can you compare GW2 revenue last quarter to Eve revenue last quarter?
I can only compare the data that is released by the companies.
CCP last data available ends in JUn'13. GW2 is from Sep'13.
The 4Q13 GW2 data should be available Feb;14.
What other MMORPG, aside WoW and GW2, does actually better financially than EVE in the West?
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
The fact that you have to compare GW2's revenue (which is little over a year old) to a game that is niche and 10 years old, should tell you how well GW2 is doing. Come back to me in a year or two. And let us discuss these stats again. If it is anything like GW1, it will be almost nothing.
Oh by the way, can you compare GW2 revenue last quarter to Eve revenue last quarter?
I can only compare the data that is released by the companies.
CCP last data available ends in JUn'13. GW2 is from Sep'13.
The 4Q13 GW2 data should be available Feb;14.
What other MMORPG, aside WoW and GW2, does actually better financially than EVE in the West?
Since Eve revenue has been pretty stable over the years, I did the comparison for you:
Eve = $18 million
GW2 = $23 million
Here is the sad thing, we are talking about revenue figures a year after launch. This is pretty much the peak, it is all downhill from here.
Nice false comparison, mainly because CCP is working on multiple games. So you are trying to compare the development team of 3-4 games, to one? Nice try.
As a matter of fact in 2008 it was 600,
Dust 514 is a FPS.
For example GW1 was developed with less than 50 people.
WOD just had quite a bit of layoffs.
The large majority of CCP employees work for EVE.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
The fact that you have to compare GW2's revenue (which is little over a year old) to a game that is niche and 10 years old, should tell you how well GW2 is doing. Come back to me in a year or two. And let us discuss these stats again. If it is anything like GW1, it will be almost nothing.
Oh by the way, can you compare GW2 revenue last quarter to Eve revenue last quarter?
I can only compare the data that is released by the companies.
CCP last data available ends in JUn'13. GW2 is from Sep'13.
The 4Q13 GW2 data should be available Feb;14.
What other MMORPG, aside WoW and GW2, does actually better financially than EVE in the West?
gw2 had 22million in sales 3rd quarter 2013. Idk what EVE made.
edit - using the 500k sub number given in Jan 2013. It looks like EVE earned around 22 million aswell.
The fact that you have to compare GW2's revenue (which is little over a year old) to a game that is niche and 10 years old, should tell you how well GW2 is doing. Come back to me in a year or two. And let us discuss these stats again. If it is anything like GW1, it will be almost nothing.
Oh by the way, can you compare GW2 revenue last quarter to Eve revenue last quarter?
I can only compare the data that is released by the companies.
CCP last data available ends in JUn'13. GW2 is from Sep'13.
The 4Q13 GW2 data should be available Feb;14.
What other MMORPG, aside WoW and GW2, does actually better financially than EVE in the West?
He means the last quarter that we know about, keep up Gaia you're slipping. A niche 10 year old game is pulling similar revenue to a game that is less than a year old and was advertised as a "game changer"
Also you're saying that WoW and GW2 are the two biggest earners in the Western MMO market?
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
For example GW1 was developed with less than 50 people.
WOD just had quite a bit of layoffs.
The large majority of CCP employees work for EVE.
Right, and Vanilla WoW was developed by 60 people.
I am sure a large majority of people work for Eve. But there were quite a few (100s working on WoD) and I am sure a significant amount working on Dust 514.
Sounds like excuses. The only possible reason they cant tell us exactly how many people are logged into a given server at a given time is that some people would think it looks bad, thus hurting their sales.
AFAIK EVE is the only MMO out there that isn't scared.
WoW doesn't post exact numbers either. They NEVER have. Getting exact numbers for WoW population has always been difficult. (They'll cherry pick and post various highs, but they don't break it down or show fluctuation)
I believe Second Life also posts concurrent users, but like EVE, there's a rather large amount of multiboxing going on. How large, I don't know. They know, but they're not going to tell you. And even the level of transparency EVE does have is extremely atypical among MMORPGs.
I'm not saying 'GW2 is innocent of numbers tomfoolery', I'm just saying that it's incredibly common, EVEN with extremely successful companies.
Even companies like Sony and Microsoft, which could eat even Activision alive and barely slow down.... when they're releasing console sales, there's a bit of obfuscation and cherry picking going on in posted numbers.
That's just what businesses do, and that's not really a decision that's being made on the game developer level, it's more of an upper management thing. Pretty sure they have some sort of class in business college 'How to lie with statistics 101' It doesn't show that a business is failing (Or succeeding. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying 'playing with numbers shows GW2 is succeeding fabulously!), it just shows that the business is ran with employees who know how to post good numbers.
The fact that you have to compare GW2's revenue (which is little over a year old) to a game that is niche and 10 years old, should tell you how well GW2 is doing. Come back to me in a year or two. And let us discuss these stats again. If it is anything like GW1, it will be almost nothing.
Oh by the way, can you compare GW2 revenue last quarter to Eve revenue last quarter?
I can only compare the data that is released by the companies.
CCP last data available ends in JUn'13. GW2 is from Sep'13.
The 4Q13 GW2 data should be available Feb;14.
What other MMORPG, aside WoW and GW2, does actually better financially than EVE in the West?
Since Eve revenue has been pretty stable over the years, I did the comparison for you:
Eve = $18 million
GW2 = $23 million
Here is the sad thing, we are talking about revenue figures a year after launch. This is pretty much the peak, it is all downhill from here.
Since they are stable is more like $16.5 Million for CCP (all the games ).
And of course Anet is hiring (went from under 300 before GW2 release to 350 after release). CCP had recent layoffs.
If GW2 release an expansion that sells 1 million copies at $40 per copy, that is another $40M revenue (I know, not all the money goes to Anet/NCSoft, but mostly will be digital copies and then there is more expensive editions).
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
For example GW1 was developed with less than 50 people.
WOD just had quite a bit of layoffs.
The large majority of CCP employees work for EVE.
Right, and Vanilla WoW was developed by 60 people.
I am sure a large majority of people work for Eve. But there were quite a few (100s working on WoD) and I am sure a significant amount working on Dust 514.
As I've told you full production of WOD started in 2009. At that time CCP had 600 workers.
"As we reexamine our outward relations, we are also taking time to reevaluate our internal goals. In doing so, we have come to the conclusion that we are attempting too many things for a company our size. Developing EVE expansions, DUST 514 and World of Darkness has stretched our resources too thin.
Rather than allowing this to persist, we have made the decision to sharpen our focus. Sadly, this means reducing our staff. We estimate that around twenty percent of global positions will be affected by this process. These will be predominantly in our Atlanta, GA office, although select positions in our Reykjavik, Iceland office will be affected."
In April 2013, in an interview at Eve Fanfest 2013, it was reported that the World of Darkness team has worked on multiple projects at CCP, and is sharing technology with the company’s other titles and teams. There are 70 people working on the tools and technology that will be used to build the World of Darkness and it was stressed that the game is in pre-production. Chris McDonough said "What we're doing is building a lot of tools, and we're trying to do it in a smart way... we have to be able to use the tools to make up the ground for the number of guys we have", and he also added "Now, we'll ramp the team up when it comes time to go into actual production but, for sure, we're making phenomenal progress". It was also announced the game will be a next-generation MMO and will work like a vampire simulator. "We're making sure this is a next-generation MMO. It's very focused on movement and motion and capturing what it's like to be a vampire. People ask about our high level designs for World of Darkness and we've called this a vampire simulator. What's it like to be a vampire. Not a super hero, but a super-powered individual. The way the characters move around the city feels very vampiric", McDonough explained. The demo showed during the World of Darkness presentation at Eve Fanfest 2013, proved this out
And then they further reduce it last December by 15 people.
So those 100s working in WOD is more like 55.
Dust 514 not only is a FPS with no campaign but it uses the Unreal engine, reducing the need for developers by quite a bit.
Currently playing: GW2 Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
If GW2 release an expansion that sells 1 million copies at $40 per copy, that is another $40M revenue (I know, not all the money goes to Anet/NCSoft, but mostly will be digital copies and then there is more expensive editions).
The layoffs were from another product and team. But what does hiring have anything to do with it? CCP is still hiring.
Oh I am sure they will sell expansions if they release them. I just don't see it happening this year. By next year it might not be worth it.
Here is my point, don't try to play it off like the game was some type of massive success while everyone else is suffering. That is not even close to the case. Next year, let us compare Eve revenue with GW2 and see how that looks.
The fact that you have to compare GW2's revenue (which is little over a year old) to a game that is niche and 10 years old, should tell you how well GW2 is doing. Come back to me in a year or two. And let us discuss these stats again. If it is anything like GW1, it will be almost nothing.
Oh by the way, can you compare GW2 revenue last quarter to Eve revenue last quarter?
I can only compare the data that is released by the companies.
CCP last data available ends in JUn'13. GW2 is from Sep'13.
The 4Q13 GW2 data should be available Feb;14.
What other MMORPG, aside WoW and GW2, does actually better financially than EVE in the West?
Since Eve revenue has been pretty stable over the years, I did the comparison for you:
Eve = $18 million
GW2 = $23 million
Here is the sad thing, we are talking about revenue figures a year after launch. This is pretty much the peak, it is all downhill from here.
Since they are stable is more like $16.5 Million for CCP (all the games ).
And of course Anet is hiring (went from under 300 before GW2 release to 350 after release). CCP had recent layoffs.
If GW2 release an expansion that sells 1 million copies at $40 per copy, that is another $40M revenue (I know, not all the money goes to Anet/NCSoft, but mostly will be digital copies and then there is more expensive editions).
When's this mythical expac going to be announced? you seemed to be convinced its in development while Arenanet keep on denying it exists so who's telling the truth here?
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
The fact that you have to compare GW2's revenue (which is little over a year old) to a game that is niche and 10 years old, should tell you how well GW2 is doing. Come back to me in a year or two. And let us discuss these stats again. If it is anything like GW1, it will be almost nothing.
Oh by the way, can you compare GW2 revenue last quarter to Eve revenue last quarter?
I can only compare the data that is released by the companies.
CCP last data available ends in JUn'13. GW2 is from Sep'13.
The 4Q13 GW2 data should be available Feb;14.
What other MMORPG, aside WoW and GW2, does actually better financially than EVE in the West?
Since Eve revenue has been pretty stable over the years, I did the comparison for you:
Eve = $18 million
GW2 = $23 million
Here is the sad thing, we are talking about revenue figures a year after launch. This is pretty much the peak, it is all downhill from here.
Since they are stable is more like $16.5 Million for CCP (all the games ).
And of course Anet is hiring (went from under 300 before GW2 release to 350 after release). CCP had recent layoffs.
If GW2 release an expansion that sells 1 million copies at $40 per copy, that is another $40M revenue (I know, not all the money goes to Anet/NCSoft, but mostly will be digital copies and then there is more expensive editions).
No, it's more like 22million. Using the 500k Sub number given in Jan. 2013 x 15$ you get 22.5 million. So they both made about 22 million.
If GW2 release an expansion that sells 1 million copies at $40 per copy, that is another $40M revenue (I know, not all the money goes to Anet/NCSoft, but mostly will be digital copies and then there is more expensive editions).
No, it's more like 22million. Using the 500k Sub number given in Jan. 2013 x 15$ you get 22.5 million.
Doesn't EvE have a cash shop as well? though Bully 100,000 of those "subs" are Chinese so its not 15x500,000.
This doom and gloom thread was brought to you by Chin Up the new ultra high caffeine soft drink for gamers who just need that boost of happiness after a long forum session.
If GW2 release an expansion that sells 1 million copies at $40 per copy, that is another $40M revenue (I know, not all the money goes to Anet/NCSoft, but mostly will be digital copies and then there is more expensive editions).
No, it's more like 22million. Using the 500k Sub number given in Jan. 2013 x 15$ you get 22.5 million.
Doesn't EvE have a cash shop as well? though Bully 100,000 of those "subs" are Chinese so its not 15x500,000.
that's why I took of 500k. NCsoft does not separate CS from Sales. it's all lumped in to sales. It's pretty close just about how ever you slice it.
The fact that you have to compare GW2's revenue (which is little over a year old) to a game that is niche and 10 years old, should tell you how well GW2 is doing. Come back to me in a year or two. And let us discuss these stats again. If it is anything like GW1, it will be almost nothing.
Oh by the way, can you compare GW2 revenue last quarter to Eve revenue last quarter?
I can only compare the data that is released by the companies.
CCP last data available ends in JUn'13. GW2 is from Sep'13.
The 4Q13 GW2 data should be available Feb;14.
What other MMORPG, aside WoW and GW2, does actually better financially than EVE in the West?
Since Eve revenue has been pretty stable over the years, I did the comparison for you:
Eve = $18 million
GW2 = $23 million
Here is the sad thing, we are talking about revenue figures a year after launch. This is pretty much the peak, it is all downhill from here.
Since they are stable is more like $16.5 Million for CCP (all the games ).
And of course Anet is hiring (went from under 300 before GW2 release to 350 after release). CCP had recent layoffs.
If GW2 release an expansion that sells 1 million copies at $40 per copy, that is another $40M revenue (I know, not all the money goes to Anet/NCSoft, but mostly will be digital copies and then there is more expensive editions).
No, it's more like 22million. Using the 500k Sub number given in Jan. 2013 x 15$ you get 22.5 million. So they both made about 22 million.
I can either believe your forum math or I can believe the CCP financial report.
Comments
AFAIK GW2 revenue was higher than EVE by some 60% in 2013. Anet has 350 workers. CCP has 550.
I'm sure GW2 is very very scared.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Love seeing the same people who hated the game from day 1 still hating the game.
I enjoy being unbiased with this.
In order for GW2 to get me and my wife back ethusiastic about the game, we'd have to see the following changes.
1. The personal story needs to be revamped and beefed up. NEither one of us are ethusiastic to continue the personal story after level 60, as the story feels more about the other dude than you. And the dragon fight is really lame.
2. We really liked the scarlet invasions before they became loot fests. There were ways that Arenanet could have designed these to cater to both crowds, instead no one wanted to complete them in the end.
3. Failure and consequences would be nice. This was what made GW1 shine.
This game is just way too "light" for me. Light character/skill progression. Light travel with instant click on the map sillyness. Light sounds, not many things feel like it has much weight behind it in combat. Light exploration with map icons revealing everything removing the sense of exploring unknown.
It was alarming when they kept repeating during the development how they have stripped basically every unconvenient feature from the game to make sure it's FUN (or boring/effortless)! This means everything is "light", kind of easy too. I'd love it to be an adventure for a human character to travel to norn lands, but now it's just "enter main city, hop into asura gate, hop into next gate, boom you're there".
No mounts because they are unneccesary? A big warning sign about the traveling and adventuring mechanics of the game.
Everything is handheld, easy, and kind of soulless. I dont regret buying the game, I played engineer to lvl68 and few other classes to their mid fourties, but having everything marked on your map before you get there, immersion destroying travel system, and abilities progression ending at lvl20, makes it a boring grind upwards. No other factions out there to stir things up, just FFA single faction PvE, even the instanced PvP is kinda boring with basically fighting your own "faction" who just have different coloured name tags.
A bit boring concept all considered.
Though I should mention there's a ton of things I love in this game, most of the daily XP boost system, crafting XP system, many abilities and combat styles, most of the time the graphics, the cities and smaller villages/posts, the "questing" system (but I'd still like traditional quests along with hearts), dyes, and much much more, there's just way too big core fail features smashing the experience to bits for me.
Take it easy now no need to flaunt your double standards. Just like how you think that FF or nastywinter (you must really hate it) was a waste of code and horrible games..others too have the right to express their negative opinions about GW2.
I bet Cryptic and SE didn't steal your milk money but you still seem quite angry that you had to play and endure those games. A lot of people feel the same about GW2 and yeah you are right complaining is part of human nature and so is hypocricy..actually both go hand in hand.
Also i would like to know what games of old you are talking about in MMO genre which were B2P and hence made it a tried and true business. Please do tell.
"The problem is that the hardcore folks always want the same thing: 'We want exactly what you gave us before, but it has to be completely different.'
-Jesse Schell
"Online gamers are the most ludicrously entitled beings since Caligula made his horse a senator, and at least the horse never said anything stupid."
-Luke McKinney
My issues with the LIving Social is that they are the only area in the game sometimes where I can't bring a buddy or two with me (unless its a new 5 man dungeon). The living stuff should scale with any size party to encourage people to come back and "bring friends with them".
No, EVE hides theirs too. It just works to EVE's advantage to show the numbers of all those PLEX accounts being controlled by 1 person. But the fact is, The number of Subs in EVE are way over bloated when compared to the number of unique players.
GW2 was my top 3 worst MMOs played, easily.
The fact that you have to compare GW2's revenue (which is little over a year old) to a game that is niche and 10 years old, should tell you how well GW2 is doing. Come back to me in a year or two. And let us discuss these stats again. If it is anything like GW1, it will be almost nothing.
Oh by the way, can you compare GW2 revenue last quarter to Eve revenue last quarter? You know what I will do it for you:
Eve = $18 million
GW2 = $23 million
See how simple that was?
Nice false comparison, mainly because CCP is working on multiple games. So you are trying to compare the development team of 3-4 games, to one? Nice try.
I can only compare the data that is released by the companies.
CCP last data available ends in JUn'13. GW2 is from Sep'13.
The 4Q13 GW2 data should be available Feb;14.
What other MMORPG, aside WoW and GW2, does actually better financially than EVE in the West?
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
Since Eve revenue has been pretty stable over the years, I did the comparison for you:
Eve = $18 million
GW2 = $23 million
Here is the sad thing, we are talking about revenue figures a year after launch. This is pretty much the peak, it is all downhill from here.
As a matter of fact in 2008 it was 600,
Dust 514 is a FPS.
For example GW1 was developed with less than 50 people.
WOD just had quite a bit of layoffs.
The large majority of CCP employees work for EVE.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
gw2 had 22million in sales 3rd quarter 2013. Idk what EVE made.
edit - using the 500k sub number given in Jan 2013. It looks like EVE earned around 22 million aswell.
He means the last quarter that we know about, keep up Gaia you're slipping. A niche 10 year old game is pulling similar revenue to a game that is less than a year old and was advertised as a "game changer"
Also you're saying that WoW and GW2 are the two biggest earners in the Western MMO market?
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Right, and Vanilla WoW was developed by 60 people.
I am sure a large majority of people work for Eve. But there were quite a few (100s working on WoD) and I am sure a significant amount working on Dust 514.
WoW doesn't post exact numbers either. They NEVER have. Getting exact numbers for WoW population has always been difficult. (They'll cherry pick and post various highs, but they don't break it down or show fluctuation)
I believe Second Life also posts concurrent users, but like EVE, there's a rather large amount of multiboxing going on. How large, I don't know. They know, but they're not going to tell you. And even the level of transparency EVE does have is extremely atypical among MMORPGs.
I'm not saying 'GW2 is innocent of numbers tomfoolery', I'm just saying that it's incredibly common, EVEN with extremely successful companies.
Even companies like Sony and Microsoft, which could eat even Activision alive and barely slow down.... when they're releasing console sales, there's a bit of obfuscation and cherry picking going on in posted numbers.
That's just what businesses do, and that's not really a decision that's being made on the game developer level, it's more of an upper management thing. Pretty sure they have some sort of class in business college 'How to lie with statistics 101' It doesn't show that a business is failing (Or succeeding. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying 'playing with numbers shows GW2 is succeeding fabulously!), it just shows that the business is ran with employees who know how to post good numbers.
Since they are stable is more like $16.5 Million for CCP (all the games
).
And of course Anet is hiring (went from under 300 before GW2 release to 350 after release). CCP had recent layoffs.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2013/12/11/layoffs-at-ccps-atlanta-office-confirmed-world-of-darkness-dev/
If GW2 release an expansion that sells 1 million copies at $40 per copy, that is another $40M revenue (I know, not all the money goes to Anet/NCSoft, but mostly will be digital copies and then there is more expensive editions).
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
As I've told you full production of WOD started in 2009. At that time CCP had 600 workers.
In 2011 CCP released this.
http://www.ccpgames.com/en/public-relations/press-releases/article/2990/ccp-focuses-on-the-eve-universe
"As we reexamine our outward relations, we are also taking time to reevaluate our internal goals. In doing so, we have come to the conclusion that we are attempting too many things for a company our size. Developing EVE expansions, DUST 514 and World of Darkness has stretched our resources too thin.
Rather than allowing this to persist, we have made the decision to sharpen our focus. Sadly, this means reducing our staff. We estimate that around twenty percent of global positions will be affected by this process. These will be predominantly in our Atlanta, GA office, although select positions in our Reykjavik, Iceland office will be affected."
In April 2013, in an interview at Eve Fanfest 2013, it was reported that the World of Darkness team has worked on multiple projects at CCP, and is sharing technology with the company’s other titles and teams. There are 70 people working on the tools and technology that will be used to build the World of Darkness and it was stressed that the game is in pre-production. Chris McDonough said "What we're doing is building a lot of tools, and we're trying to do it in a smart way... we have to be able to use the tools to make up the ground for the number of guys we have", and he also added "Now, we'll ramp the team up when it comes time to go into actual production but, for sure, we're making phenomenal progress". It was also announced the game will be a next-generation MMO and will work like a vampire simulator. "We're making sure this is a next-generation MMO. It's very focused on movement and motion and capturing what it's like to be a vampire. People ask about our high level designs for World of Darkness and we've called this a vampire simulator. What's it like to be a vampire. Not a super hero, but a super-powered individual. The way the characters move around the city feels very vampiric", McDonough explained. The demo showed during the World of Darkness presentation at Eve Fanfest 2013, proved this out
And then they further reduce it last December by 15 people.
So those 100s working in WOD is more like 55.
Dust 514 not only is a FPS with no campaign but it uses the Unreal engine, reducing the need for developers by quite a bit.
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
The layoffs were from another product and team. But what does hiring have anything to do with it? CCP is still hiring.
http://www.ccpgames.com/en/jobs
Oh I am sure they will sell expansions if they release them. I just don't see it happening this year. By next year it might not be worth it.
Here is my point, don't try to play it off like the game was some type of massive success while everyone else is suffering. That is not even close to the case. Next year, let us compare Eve revenue with GW2 and see how that looks.
When's this mythical expac going to be announced? you seemed to be convinced its in development while Arenanet keep on denying it exists so who's telling the truth here?
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No, it's more like 22million. Using the 500k Sub number given in Jan. 2013 x 15$ you get 22.5 million. So they both made about 22 million.
Doesn't EvE have a cash shop as well? though Bully 100,000 of those "subs" are Chinese so its not 15x500,000.
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that's why I took of 500k. NCsoft does not separate CS from Sales. it's all lumped in to sales. It's pretty close just about how ever you slice it.
I can either believe your forum math or I can believe the CCP financial report.
I think I'll take the report.
http://www.ccpgames.com/media/47381/ccp%20financial%20statements%20june%2030%202013.pdf
Currently playing: GW2
Going cardboard starter kit: Ticket to ride, Pandemic, Carcassonne, Dominion, 7 Wonders
But why take a 2012 report, when they announced topping 500k in 2013? That's like 1 years worth of GROWTH you decided to leave out.
edit - I see 2013
edit- last time I checked Gross Profit =/= Revenue... Right? Revenue is usually higher, right?
edit - lol nvm