I am not ignoring that SWTOR has more than SWG, it is easy to see, but SWTOR is bound to have more players because it is F2P, anybody can download it and play without paying a thing, unlike SWG and WOW
SWTOR is no where near as succesfull as WOW, it does not have 10 millions subscibers in a P2P only payment model.
If SWTOR was even averagally good it would have held on to those 2 million subs a lot longer, and may not even be F2P today.
Do I really need to point out that not a single MMO is even close to being as successful as WoW?
Except for a few who are nothing like the classic MMORPGs (AKA LoL and such).
If we really are going to follow that line of thought than surely WoW is a vastly better game than SWG ever was? Since they existed in the same time period and WoW has always walked right over it.
SWTOR had the potential to be as successful as WOW because it had the 2 million sales, but lost it at high speed. I do not think any MMO has lost 75% of its population within the first year.
No other MMO switched to F2P so fast and with having just under one million subs at the time = SWTOR costs were out of this world. EA / BW made SWTOR so that it needed to be as sucessful as WOW, which you seem to be forgetting. WOW would have survived with making a profit and stayed P2P even with about 300K subs. At the time that was about the average amount of people playing MMOs. Blizzard got super lucky and then raked it in.
WOW was successful because it had decent marketing, game was easy to get into, ran smoother and had a lot less bugs, and people stayed longer because it was slower to level up. With SWTOR people ran through the content very fast, which EA/BW admitted to being shocked at showing they did not have a clue about MMOs. With the content being cut scenes and voice over makes it money and time consuming, so by the time more new content gets in people have gotten fed up of waiting and quit.
Things that make SWTOR attractive:
It is a MMO of the last best SW game - KOTOR
Made by Bioware
Star Wars
It is FREE to play, and so soon after launch, making it feel like all your christmases have come all at once.
At the end of the day a good MMO is what you make of it, not how many players are playing, but is only good for the devs. WOW was good but I found that boring too. LOTRO is similar to WOW but I find that more interesting as has some cool features that WOW does not have. SWTOR is good to a point but it is just too restrictive to play long term. 2013 was a good year as it was just F2P and attracted people and it had a lot of major updates, but 2014 people are going to get bored of the content and lose interest, especially with TESO and Wildstar on the way.
Originally posted by Fenrir767 Final Fantasy 11 is arguably an eastern MMO as a large portion of its player base is Japanese and it is cross platform and one of the few MMORPGs released for consoles.
I really don't know much of anything about FFXI, other than they locked in about about 500k people for years.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
When SWTOR was announced, there was SWTOR will kill SWG threads, and people ROFLed to that too. come June 2011 it was no laughing matter then. But it was not really SWTOR that killed SWG it was all the other previous MMOs that launched which stole players bit by bit.
Seriosuly SWTOR isn't going to shut down in April/May as soon as TESO gets launched, but when EA wants to focus on something else that will make guaranteed profit, like Star Wars Battlefront, or the open world Star Wars game, or maybe Bioware will work on a new SW game, where people will be willing to spend $60 on a new game, and be milled by MT each month. make it a game that will spawn many sequels like Need For Speed, then EA will be raking it in.
Originally posted by superniceguy Originally posted by Azaron_Nightblade Originally posted by Dewguy79 Originally posted by ktanner3 I can't believe we're still arguing over statements made three years ago long before expansions,F2P and the cash shop.
Maybe if he copy/paste it 2000 more times we will start believing like he does it's still true...or no we won't! What is this the 10th day in a row he has brought up the quote on this thread? I hope he knows just because he quotes it on a new day doesn't change the fact it's from three years ago and is not relevant anymore.
Eh, in all honesty I stopped paying attention to what he says after I noticed his quote about how SWG killed off SWTOR's chances of hitting it big time.
If he's willing to ignore that even today's SWTOR has several times the amount of players that SWG had when it was at its height, he's pretty much going to refute anything that doesn't fit into his view of how things "really" are.
I am not ignoring that SWTOR has more than SWG, it is easy to see, but SWTOR is bound to have more players because it is F2P, anybody can download it and play without paying a thing, unlike SWG and WOW
SWTOR is no where near as succesfull as WOW, it does not have 10 millions subscibers in a P2P only payment model.
If SWTOR was even averagally good it would have held on to those 2 million subs a lot longer, and may not even be F2P today.
Oh look who stuck in the past!! Shocker of the day well after you quoted a three year old quote for the tenth straight day. Yes we know it lost players at launch dang you got us there. But to call it average based on not keeping 2 million, and if it's still average with 500k subs and 1.7 million f2pers what would you consider a good game? Now remember your basing it's average for not keeping 2 million and it's still ave to you with their current numbers any mmo you say is above must have more player, by your very definition .
I'm sure a lot of MMOs would love to be that kind of "average."
Originally posted by Dewguy79 Originally posted by superniceguy Originally posted by Azaron_Nightblade Originally posted by Dewguy79 Originally posted by ktanner3 I can't believe we're still arguing over statements made three years ago long before expansions,F2P and the cash shop.
Maybe if he copy/paste it 2000 more times we will start believing like he does it's still true...or no we won't! What is this the 10th day in a row he has brought up the quote on this thread? I hope he knows just because he quotes it on a new day doesn't change the fact it's from three years ago and is not relevant anymore.
Eh, in all honesty I stopped paying attention to what he says after I noticed his quote about how SWG killed off SWTOR's chances of hitting it big time.
If he's willing to ignore that even today's SWTOR has several times the amount of players that SWG had when it was at its height, he's pretty much going to refute anything that doesn't fit into his view of how things "really" are.
I am not ignoring that SWTOR has more than SWG, it is easy to see, but SWTOR is bound to have more players because it is F2P, anybody can download it and play without paying a thing, unlike SWG and WOW
SWTOR is no where near as succesfull as WOW, it does not have 10 millions subscibers in a P2P only payment model.
If SWTOR was even averagally good it would have held on to those 2 million subs a lot longer, and may not even be F2P today.
Oh look who stuck in the past!! Shocker of the day well after you quoted a three year old quote for the tenth straight day. Yes we know it lost players at launch dang you got us there. But to call it average based on not keeping 2 million, and if it's still average with 500k subs and 1.7 million f2pers what would you consider a good game? Now remember your basing it's average for not keeping 2 million and it's still ave to you with their current numbers any mmo you say is above must have more player, by your very definition .
500K subs and 1.7 million F2Pers was mentioned many months ago, how many today?
More than STO or NGE on their best days.And that's pretty bad when you consider that STO is also based on a popular IP and they're practically giving it away.
No it wouldn't SOE even said they had no plans on renewing the contract with Lucas arts.
They didn't need to shut it down for SWTOR remember they are still running the Clone Wars MMO
Not for much longer they aren't.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Originally posted by ktanner3 I can't believe we're still arguing over statements made three years ago long before expansions,F2P and the cash shop.
Maybe if he copy/paste it 2000 more times we will start believing like he does it's still true...or no we won't! What is this the 10th day in a row he has brought up the quote on this thread? I hope he knows just because he quotes it on a new day doesn't change the fact it's from three years ago and is not relevant anymore.
Eh, in all honesty I stopped paying attention to what he says after I noticed his quote about how SWG killed off SWTOR's chances of hitting it big time.
If he's willing to ignore that even today's SWTOR has several times the amount of players that SWG had when it was at its height, he's pretty much going to refute anything that doesn't fit into his view of how things "really" are.
I am not ignoring that SWTOR has more than SWG, it is easy to see, but SWTOR is bound to have more players because it is F2P, anybody can download it and play without paying a thing, unlike SWG and WOW
SWTOR is no where near as succesfull as WOW, it does not have 10 millions subscibers in a P2P only payment model.
If SWTOR was even averagally good it would have held on to those 2 million subs a lot longer, and may not even be F2P today.
This is what you can't understand. Even when SWTOR was subscritpion it STILL had more subscribers then SWG ever had.
By your rational if SWG was even marginally good it would have held on to its 300k subscribers more then a month. It wouldn't have spent hte last few YEARS of its life with less then 10k subscribers.
If SWG was even marginally good it wouldn't have needed the NGE.
As for your claim about 500k to break even is wrong the president of EA Labels made an incorrect statement. He missunderstood what was going on. Listen to the earning calls they even mention that at 500k subs its still profitiable just not as profitable as they liked so they went to F2P.
Originally posted by bobdole1979No it wouldn't SOE even said they had no plans on renewing the contract with Lucas arts. They didn't need to shut it down for SWTOR remember they are still running the Clone Wars MMO
Not for much longer they aren't.
Curious if TOR will get blamed for that game sutting down as well.
No it wouldn't SOE even said they had no plans on renewing the contract with Lucas arts.
They didn't need to shut it down for SWTOR remember they are still running the Clone Wars MMO
Not for much longer they aren't.
If they said that one was shutting down because of the EA/Disney deal I could actually believe it, it's entirely possible they can't get the license renewed for the Clone Wars because of it.
Although I'm more inclined to think the reason is the same as for not renewing the license for SWG; the game just isn't popular enough to justify paying an insane amount of money for the license (which I'm sure Disney is charging for it).
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
All the good points have been said already. Class quest's even the voice acting is rather enjoyable. Though i do get sick of hearing the term WoW clone....if you look at the UI/crafting and skil lset for WoW and compare it to ever quest you will see similarity. so nothing really is a "WoW Clone" but instead are copies of some of the first mmos made. and trust me WoW was no where near the first. they just did something right...for about 1 expantion. But back on topic i would have to say that the game still has a lot of life in it. Is it a huge mmo? no but it has a nice crowed
free 7 day sub and unlocks for swtor new accounts and 90+ day inactive subs click here to get it!
Originally posted by ktanner3 I can't believe we're still arguing over statements made three years ago long before expansions,F2P and the cash shop.
Maybe if he copy/paste it 2000 more times we will start believing like he does it's still true...or no we won't! What is this the 10th day in a row he has brought up the quote on this thread? I hope he knows just because he quotes it on a new day doesn't change the fact it's from three years ago and is not relevant anymore.
Eh, in all honesty I stopped paying attention to what he says after I noticed his quote about how SWG killed off SWTOR's chances of hitting it big time.
If he's willing to ignore that even today's SWTOR has several times the amount of players that SWG had when it was at its height, he's pretty much going to refute anything that doesn't fit into his view of how things "really" are.
I am not ignoring that SWTOR has more than SWG, it is easy to see, but SWTOR is bound to have more players because it is F2P, anybody can download it and play without paying a thing, unlike SWG and WOW
SWTOR is no where near as succesfull as WOW, it does not have 10 millions subscibers in a P2P only payment model.
If SWTOR was even averagally good it would have held on to those 2 million subs a lot longer, and may not even be F2P today.
Oh look who stuck in the past!! Shocker of the day well after you quoted a three year old quote for the tenth straight day. Yes we know it lost players at launch dang you got us there. But to call it average based on not keeping 2 million, and if it's still average with 500k subs and 1.7 million f2pers what would you consider a good game? Now remember your basing it's average for not keeping 2 million and it's still ave to you with their current numbers any mmo you say is above must have more player, by your very definition .
500K subs and 1.7 million F2Pers was mentioned many months ago, how many today?
More than STO or NGE on their best days.And that's pretty bad when you consider that STO is also based on a popular IP and they're practically giving it away.
STO does not need that many, it only has one server, and if it had the population of SWTOR people would be queueing for days just to log in. The budget for STO is based around fewer players, the budget for SWTOR is based around millions of subs, and it went F2P when the subs was just under one million subs - no other MMO would have gone F2P with that many subs. STO was P2P a lot longer. SWTOR will need to keep the higher level of population to stay alive too.
I am not ignoring that SWTOR has more than SWG, it is easy to see, but SWTOR is bound to have more players because it is F2P, anybody can download it and play without paying a thing, unlike SWG and WOW
SWTOR is no where near as succesfull as WOW, it does not have 10 millions subscibers in a P2P only payment model.
If SWTOR was even averagally good it would have held on to those 2 million subs a lot longer, and may not even be F2P today.
Do I really need to point out that not a single MMO is even close to being as successful as WoW?
Except for a few who are nothing like the classic MMORPGs (AKA LoL and such).
If we really are going to follow that line of thought than surely WoW is a vastly better game than SWG ever was? Since they existed in the same time period and WoW has always walked right over it.
SWTOR had the potential to be as successful as WOW because it had the 2 million sales, but lost it at high speed. I do not think any MMO has lost 75% of its population within the first year.
No other MMO switched to F2P so fast and with having just under one million subs at the time = SWTOR costs were out of this world. EA / BW made SWTOR so that it needed to be as sucessful as WOW, which you seem to be forgetting. WOW would have survived with making a profit and stayed P2P even with about 300K subs. At the time that was about the average amount of people playing MMOs. Blizzard got super lucky and then raked it in.
WOW was successful because it had decent marketing, game was easy to get into, ran smoother and had a lot less bugs, and people stayed longer because it was slower to level up. With SWTOR people ran through the content very fast, which EA/BW admitted to being shocked at showing they did not have a clue about MMOs. With the content being cut scenes and voice over makes it money and time consuming, so by the time more new content gets in people have gotten fed up of waiting and quit.
Things that make SWTOR attractive:
It is a MMO of the last best SW game - KOTOR
Made by Bioware
Star Wars
It is FREE to play, and so soon after launch, making it feel like all your christmases have come all at once.
At the end of the day a good MMO is what you make of it, not how many players are playing, but is only good for the devs. WOW was good but I found that boring too. LOTRO is similar to WOW but I find that more interesting as has some cool features that WOW does not have. SWTOR is good to a point but it is just too restrictive to play long term. 2013 was a good year as it was just F2P and attracted people and it had a lot of major updates, but 2014 people are going to get bored of the content and lose interest, especially with TESO and Wildstar on the way.
It went free to play Quickly after launch just like most of the games that were released around that time as well. It went free to play because that's what a lot of it's competition was doing. When SWTOR could not compete with WoW and was not retaining all players it's competition became solid games with a F2P model like LOTRO.
Other MMOs have lost a rather large amount of their population within the first year as well. SWG started to bleed subscribers a few months in with the Holocron Grind, complete lack of fixing any issues and subsequent changes just kept pushing people out the door. AoC definitely lost most of it's player base in a few months due to how amazing the first 10 levels where and how shit it was after. CoH started losing its player base as people capped and then realized all they could do was replay the same game again I remember most 50s leaving after about a week at cap. STO is another one which made a rapid shift to F2P as their game was broken and people were leaving it as well. Games like TSW went F2P even faster than SWTOR.
The shift to F2P was a response to a changing business model and an acceptance that they would never be WoW but there was a place for SWTOR out their and that it's place was amongst the freemium games and that it could be the best of them
Wildstar and TESO will have less of an impact than you think on SWTOR for quite a few reasons, The legacy system has quite a few people quite happy paying and leveling multiple characters and makes playing more ton more fun than any other MMO I have ever played. Wild Star is a new ip and there is nothing that makes me want to play it, classes have some interesting ideas but I am hooked on great story and so far nothing I have seen about Wild Star says the leveling experience will suck me in like SWTOR will. TESO is made for Elder Scroll fans which is great but it's something I am not one of and while their may be some crossover there is not nearly as much as people think there is. When I am running around SWTOR and in guild chat one person is talking about Wildstar and One person is talking about TESO.
SWTOR was made for a certain kind of gamer those that wanted the same quality story as a single player experience and want to be able to play with other people. People that normally hated multiple toons because it was starting fresh hence the legacy system. It was also made for people that wanted to have fun in a game and weren't necessarily concerned with the overall sandbox like experience and it succeeds very well at those things. Now it can do some things better for sure (Space PvE I love the on rails portion as a leveling element and thought it was a cool but we could use a much better version added)
Also EA and Bioware do have one trump card they can play to bring players back in droves if they wanted to. Release a large expansion something like 10 levels with class stories being updated and you will definitely bring back probably 500k - 1mil players at least for a short time because that's what the community wants and that's what this game excels and why most of us started playing in the first place.
Also EA and Bioware do have one trump card they can play to bring players back in droves if they wanted to. Release a large expansion something like 10 levels with class stories being updated and you will definitely bring back probably 500k - 1mil players at least for a short time because that's what the community wants and that's what this game excels and why most of us started playing in the first place.
Class story is dead.
They have decided that making two stories is much easier than making eight.
They have decided that making two stories is much easier than making eight.
This is true, and disappointing. I'm not sure it won't turn out to be their biggest mistake. It may be extremely expensive to continue the class and/or companion stories, but those happen to be the only things that the game truly excels at, so TOR may find itself in a very bad position once more story heavy MMOs start cropping up that also do a better job of the things that TOR is less than great at.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Originally posted by ktanner3 I can't believe we're still arguing over statements made three years ago long before expansions,F2P and the cash shop.
Maybe if he copy/paste it 2000 more times we will start believing like he does it's still true...or no we won't! What is this the 10th day in a row he has brought up the quote on this thread? I hope he knows just because he quotes it on a new day doesn't change the fact it's from three years ago and is not relevant anymore.
Eh, in all honesty I stopped paying attention to what he says after I noticed his quote about how SWG killed off SWTOR's chances of hitting it big time.
If he's willing to ignore that even today's SWTOR has several times the amount of players that SWG had when it was at its height, he's pretty much going to refute anything that doesn't fit into his view of how things "really" are.
I am not ignoring that SWTOR has more than SWG, it is easy to see, but SWTOR is bound to have more players because it is F2P, anybody can download it and play without paying a thing, unlike SWG and WOW
SWTOR is no where near as succesfull as WOW, it does not have 10 millions subscibers in a P2P only payment model.
If SWTOR was even averagally good it would have held on to those 2 million subs a lot longer, and may not even be F2P today.
This is what you can't understand. Even when SWTOR was subscritpion it STILL had more subscribers then SWG ever had.
By your rational if SWG was even marginally good it would have held on to its 300k subscribers more then a month. It wouldn't have spent hte last few YEARS of its life with less then 10k subscribers.
If SWG was even marginally good it wouldn't have needed the NGE.
As for your claim about 500k to break even is wrong the president of EA Labels made an incorrect statement. He missunderstood what was going on. Listen to the earning calls they even mention that at 500k subs its still profitiable just not as profitable as they liked so they went to F2P.
I understand clear, not sure why you think that.
When SWG launched in 2003 having 300k subs was pretty awesome as other MMOs were about that many too. At the time when SWG launched MMOs and online gaming was just beginning, so not many knew about them or were able to play them, unlike in 2011.
SWTOR was first mentioned about 2008, and built up a huge hype, and Bioware games were masterpieces. After SWG people were wanting another SW MMO so bad, and thought Bioware could not possibly fail, especially after the award winning KOTOR. 2 million people bought SWTOR because we all thought it was going to be the best thing since sliced bread / KOTOR, and was looking forward to spending 10 years in a new SW MMO, but then 1.5 million quit. I am still playing it now, because I bought the Collectors edition and 2 standard copies, and want my monies worth, and I have no choice to play SWTOR if I want to play in he SW universe. If SWG was still active I would play that instead, plus SWTOR too, but without SWG, I have played SWTOR enough to not want to spend much time in it. Now it is F2P it is easy for people to take things slow, and mix and match MMOs without paying a sub when not playing it.
Basically SWTOR sold more because of what people thought the game would be like, not because it was any good, because no one knew what it was going to be actually like. If SOE were the ones developing SWTOR, even if it ended up being the exact same game, it would not have had so many sales.
SWG lost its playerbase because of the bugs. SWTOR lost its playerbase because there was not much of a geme to play. People plowed through it and then quit, even EA / BW were shocked by how fast people played through the game. The game still is the same, but it is just dependent on what BW can do for the game and keeping up adding content, what SWG had was what the players also did for the game.
NGE got done to try and copy WOW and its success. The NGE may not have happened if WOW was not a success.
EA labels is still correct, because at the time they said that the game had just under a million subs, not 500K. It was a prediction. If they were making profit when the game had 500K subs then fair enough, but they also had the revenue from the cash shop too. If it was P2P and had 500K subs and no cash shop revenue then they would have been right.
So many factors you are not taking into consideration - you are just seeing things in black and white, not seeing the full picture.
Your post is long and honestly quite pointless.... Also repetitive of everything else you already said....
SWG died because of broken promises, shitty time sinks and players wanting a Star Wars game not a second life experience, and when SWG was alive there were more haters than lovers on that forum everyone seems to forget that and now looks back with Rose Colored glasses and say it was amazing.
Bioware succeeded in the game they wanted to make it's just not for everyone but apparently it's for more people than SWG ever was'
Originally posted by Fenrir767 Any official posts to say the class stories are dead? If they are unofficially though reviving them will bring back player!
I don't have the link handy, but yes, they have confirmed that going forward they are focusing on the factional content, the class stories are over. (Unless of course they change their minds.)
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Originally posted by Fenrir767 Any official posts to say the class stories are dead? If they are unofficially though reviving them will bring back player!
But would it bring back paying players? Enough to be worth the expense?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Originally posted by Fenrir767 Any official posts to say the class stories are dead? If they are unofficially though reviving them will bring back player!
But would it bring back paying players? Enough to be worth the expense?
I think it would bring back paying players. The question is, as you say, whether it would bring back enough of them for a long enough period of time to justify the cost. I think the answer to that question is almost certainly no. I think too many of the people who would find that content appealing enough to come back are already among the number who never left, and if that is the case, there just wouldn't be enough added revenue to justify the cost.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Originally posted by Fenrir767 Your post is long and honestly quite pointless.... Also repetitive of everything else you already said....
SWG died because of broken promises, shitty time sinks and players wanting a Star Wars game not a second life experience, and when SWG was alive there were more haters than lovers on that forum everyone seems to forget that and now looks back with Rose Colored glasses and say it was amazing.
Bioware succeeded in the game they wanted to make it's just not for everyone but apparently it's for more people than SWG ever was'
Bioware did not succeed in making the game they wanted, as the Doctors quit, and the vision they had for the game died with their departure. Now it just a nickel and diming cash cow, with no structure or focus.
SWTOR would have been so much better than it is now, if it did not tank.
When SWG launched in 2003 having 300k subs was pretty awesome as other MMOs were about that many too. At the time when SWG launched MMOs and online gaming was just beginning, so not many knew about them or were able to play them, unlike in 2011.
SWTOR was first mentioned about 2008, and built up a huge hype, and Bioware games were masterpieces. After SWG people were wanting another SW MMO so bad, and thought Bioware could not possibly fail, especially after the award winning KOTOR. 2 million people bought SWTOR because we all thought it was going to be the best thing since sliced bread / KOTOR, and was looking forward to spending 10 years in a new SW MMO, but then 1.5 million quit. I am still playing it now, because I bought the Collectors edition and 2 standard copies, and want my monies worth, and I have no choice to play SWTOR if I want to play in he SW universe. If SWG was still active I would play that instead, plus SWTOR too, but without SWG, I have played SWTOR enough to not want to spend much time in it. Now it is F2P it is easy for people to take things slow, and mix and match MMOs without paying a sub when not playing it.
Basically SWTOR sold more because of what people thought the game would be like, not because it was any good, because no one knew what it was going to be actually like. If SOE were the ones developing SWTOR, even if it ended up being the exact same game, it would not have had so many sales.
SWG lost its playerbase because of the bugs. SWTOR lost its playerbase because there was not much of a geme to play. People plowed through it and then quit, even EA / BW were shocked by how fast people played through the game. The game still is the same, but it is just dependent on what BW can do for the game and keeping up adding content, what SWG had was what the players also did for the game.
NGE got done to try and copy WOW and its success. The NGE may not have happened if WOW was not a success.
EA labels is still correct, because at the time they said that the game had just under a million subs, not 500K. It was a prediction. If they were making profit when the game had 500K subs then fair enough, but they also had the revenue from the cash shop too. If it was P2P and had 500K subs and no cash shop revenue then they would have been right.
So many factors you are not taking into consideration - you are just seeing things in black and white, not seeing the full picture.
No when SWG launched 300k wasn't a big deal. SOE said they expected SWG to have 1 million subs. That's why they ended up doing the NGE and the CU
wait did you just say SWTOR didn't have much to do but SWG did? ROFL that is hillarious
SWG had next to nothing to do. Missions and quests? All there was were Mission terminals. Dugeons or Raids? Nope not for a long time after launch and even then they were pathetic and broken.
SWTOR would have been so much better than it is now, if it did not tank.
Your argument would have more credibility if they weren't swimming in buckets of money.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
Comments
SWTOR had the potential to be as successful as WOW because it had the 2 million sales, but lost it at high speed. I do not think any MMO has lost 75% of its population within the first year.
No other MMO switched to F2P so fast and with having just under one million subs at the time = SWTOR costs were out of this world. EA / BW made SWTOR so that it needed to be as sucessful as WOW, which you seem to be forgetting. WOW would have survived with making a profit and stayed P2P even with about 300K subs. At the time that was about the average amount of people playing MMOs. Blizzard got super lucky and then raked it in.
WOW was successful because it had decent marketing, game was easy to get into, ran smoother and had a lot less bugs, and people stayed longer because it was slower to level up. With SWTOR people ran through the content very fast, which EA/BW admitted to being shocked at showing they did not have a clue about MMOs. With the content being cut scenes and voice over makes it money and time consuming, so by the time more new content gets in people have gotten fed up of waiting and quit.
Things that make SWTOR attractive:
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I really don't know much of anything about FFXI, other than they locked in about about 500k people for years.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
Actually it was said here first, by a SWTOR fan.
When SWTOR was announced, there was SWTOR will kill SWG threads, and people ROFLed to that too. come June 2011 it was no laughing matter then. But it was not really SWTOR that killed SWG it was all the other previous MMOs that launched which stole players bit by bit.
Seriosuly SWTOR isn't going to shut down in April/May as soon as TESO gets launched, but when EA wants to focus on something else that will make guaranteed profit, like Star Wars Battlefront, or the open world Star Wars game, or maybe Bioware will work on a new SW game, where people will be willing to spend $60 on a new game, and be milled by MT each month. make it a game that will spawn many sequels like Need For Speed, then EA will be raking it in.
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Maybe if he copy/paste it 2000 more times we will start believing like he does it's still true...or no we won't! What is this the 10th day in a row he has brought up the quote on this thread? I hope he knows just because he quotes it on a new day doesn't change the fact it's from three years ago and is not relevant anymore.
Eh, in all honesty I stopped paying attention to what he says after I noticed his quote about how SWG killed off SWTOR's chances of hitting it big time.
If he's willing to ignore that even today's SWTOR has several times the amount of players that SWG had when it was at its height, he's pretty much going to refute anything that doesn't fit into his view of how things "really" are.
I am not ignoring that SWTOR has more than SWG, it is easy to see, but SWTOR is bound to have more players because it is F2P, anybody can download it and play without paying a thing, unlike SWG and WOW
SWTOR is no where near as succesfull as WOW, it does not have 10 millions subscibers in a P2P only payment model.
If SWTOR was even averagally good it would have held on to those 2 million subs a lot longer, and may not even be F2P today.
Oh look who stuck in the past!! Shocker of the day well after you quoted a three year old quote for the tenth straight day. Yes we know it lost players at launch dang you got us there. But to call it average based on not keeping 2 million, and if it's still average with 500k subs and 1.7 million f2pers what would you consider a good game? Now remember your basing it's average for not keeping 2 million and it's still ave to you with their current numbers any mmo you say is above must have more player, by your very definition .
I'm sure a lot of MMOs would love to be that kind of "average."Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
Maybe if he copy/paste it 2000 more times we will start believing like he does it's still true...or no we won't! What is this the 10th day in a row he has brought up the quote on this thread? I hope he knows just because he quotes it on a new day doesn't change the fact it's from three years ago and is not relevant anymore.
Eh, in all honesty I stopped paying attention to what he says after I noticed his quote about how SWG killed off SWTOR's chances of hitting it big time.
If he's willing to ignore that even today's SWTOR has several times the amount of players that SWG had when it was at its height, he's pretty much going to refute anything that doesn't fit into his view of how things "really" are.
I am not ignoring that SWTOR has more than SWG, it is easy to see, but SWTOR is bound to have more players because it is F2P, anybody can download it and play without paying a thing, unlike SWG and WOW
SWTOR is no where near as succesfull as WOW, it does not have 10 millions subscibers in a P2P only payment model.
If SWTOR was even averagally good it would have held on to those 2 million subs a lot longer, and may not even be F2P today.
Oh look who stuck in the past!! Shocker of the day well after you quoted a three year old quote for the tenth straight day. Yes we know it lost players at launch dang you got us there. But to call it average based on not keeping 2 million, and if it's still average with 500k subs and 1.7 million f2pers what would you consider a good game? Now remember your basing it's average for not keeping 2 million and it's still ave to you with their current numbers any mmo you say is above must have more player, by your very definition .
500K subs and 1.7 million F2Pers was mentioned many months ago, how many today?
More than STO or NGE on their best days.And that's pretty bad when you consider that STO is also based on a popular IP and they're practically giving it away.Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
No it wouldn't SOE even said they had no plans on renewing the contract with Lucas arts.
They didn't need to shut it down for SWTOR remember they are still running the Clone Wars MMO
Not for much longer they aren't.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
This is what you can't understand. Even when SWTOR was subscritpion it STILL had more subscribers then SWG ever had.
By your rational if SWG was even marginally good it would have held on to its 300k subscribers more then a month. It wouldn't have spent hte last few YEARS of its life with less then 10k subscribers.
If SWG was even marginally good it wouldn't have needed the NGE.
As for your claim about 500k to break even is wrong the president of EA Labels made an incorrect statement. He missunderstood what was going on. Listen to the earning calls they even mention that at 500k subs its still profitiable just not as profitable as they liked so they went to F2P.
Not for much longer they aren't.
Curious if TOR will get blamed for that game sutting down as well.Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
If they said that one was shutting down because of the EA/Disney deal I could actually believe it, it's entirely possible they can't get the license renewed for the Clone Wars because of it.
Although I'm more inclined to think the reason is the same as for not renewing the license for SWG; the game just isn't popular enough to justify paying an insane amount of money for the license (which I'm sure Disney is charging for it).
My SWTOR referral link for those wanting to give the game a try. (Newbies get a welcome package while returning players get a few account upgrades to help with their preferred status.)
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/ref/Callaron/
free 7 day sub and unlocks for swtor new accounts and 90+ day inactive subs click here to get it!
Click here for trove referral, bonuses to both!
STO does not need that many, it only has one server, and if it had the population of SWTOR people would be queueing for days just to log in. The budget for STO is based around fewer players, the budget for SWTOR is based around millions of subs, and it went F2P when the subs was just under one million subs - no other MMO would have gone F2P with that many subs. STO was P2P a lot longer. SWTOR will need to keep the higher level of population to stay alive too.
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It went free to play Quickly after launch just like most of the games that were released around that time as well. It went free to play because that's what a lot of it's competition was doing. When SWTOR could not compete with WoW and was not retaining all players it's competition became solid games with a F2P model like LOTRO.
Other MMOs have lost a rather large amount of their population within the first year as well. SWG started to bleed subscribers a few months in with the Holocron Grind, complete lack of fixing any issues and subsequent changes just kept pushing people out the door. AoC definitely lost most of it's player base in a few months due to how amazing the first 10 levels where and how shit it was after. CoH started losing its player base as people capped and then realized all they could do was replay the same game again I remember most 50s leaving after about a week at cap. STO is another one which made a rapid shift to F2P as their game was broken and people were leaving it as well. Games like TSW went F2P even faster than SWTOR.
The shift to F2P was a response to a changing business model and an acceptance that they would never be WoW but there was a place for SWTOR out their and that it's place was amongst the freemium games and that it could be the best of them
Wildstar and TESO will have less of an impact than you think on SWTOR for quite a few reasons, The legacy system has quite a few people quite happy paying and leveling multiple characters and makes playing more ton more fun than any other MMO I have ever played. Wild Star is a new ip and there is nothing that makes me want to play it, classes have some interesting ideas but I am hooked on great story and so far nothing I have seen about Wild Star says the leveling experience will suck me in like SWTOR will. TESO is made for Elder Scroll fans which is great but it's something I am not one of and while their may be some crossover there is not nearly as much as people think there is. When I am running around SWTOR and in guild chat one person is talking about Wildstar and One person is talking about TESO.
SWTOR was made for a certain kind of gamer those that wanted the same quality story as a single player experience and want to be able to play with other people. People that normally hated multiple toons because it was starting fresh hence the legacy system. It was also made for people that wanted to have fun in a game and weren't necessarily concerned with the overall sandbox like experience and it succeeds very well at those things. Now it can do some things better for sure (Space PvE I love the on rails portion as a leveling element and thought it was a cool but we could use a much better version added)
Also EA and Bioware do have one trump card they can play to bring players back in droves if they wanted to. Release a large expansion something like 10 levels with class stories being updated and you will definitely bring back probably 500k - 1mil players at least for a short time because that's what the community wants and that's what this game excels and why most of us started playing in the first place.
Class story is dead.
They have decided that making two stories is much easier than making eight.
This is true, and disappointing. I'm not sure it won't turn out to be their biggest mistake. It may be extremely expensive to continue the class and/or companion stories, but those happen to be the only things that the game truly excels at, so TOR may find itself in a very bad position once more story heavy MMOs start cropping up that also do a better job of the things that TOR is less than great at.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
I understand clear, not sure why you think that.
When SWG launched in 2003 having 300k subs was pretty awesome as other MMOs were about that many too. At the time when SWG launched MMOs and online gaming was just beginning, so not many knew about them or were able to play them, unlike in 2011.
SWTOR was first mentioned about 2008, and built up a huge hype, and Bioware games were masterpieces. After SWG people were wanting another SW MMO so bad, and thought Bioware could not possibly fail, especially after the award winning KOTOR. 2 million people bought SWTOR because we all thought it was going to be the best thing since sliced bread / KOTOR, and was looking forward to spending 10 years in a new SW MMO, but then 1.5 million quit. I am still playing it now, because I bought the Collectors edition and 2 standard copies, and want my monies worth, and I have no choice to play SWTOR if I want to play in he SW universe. If SWG was still active I would play that instead, plus SWTOR too, but without SWG, I have played SWTOR enough to not want to spend much time in it. Now it is F2P it is easy for people to take things slow, and mix and match MMOs without paying a sub when not playing it.
Basically SWTOR sold more because of what people thought the game would be like, not because it was any good, because no one knew what it was going to be actually like. If SOE were the ones developing SWTOR, even if it ended up being the exact same game, it would not have had so many sales.
SWG lost its playerbase because of the bugs. SWTOR lost its playerbase because there was not much of a geme to play. People plowed through it and then quit, even EA / BW were shocked by how fast people played through the game. The game still is the same, but it is just dependent on what BW can do for the game and keeping up adding content, what SWG had was what the players also did for the game.
NGE got done to try and copy WOW and its success. The NGE may not have happened if WOW was not a success.
EA labels is still correct, because at the time they said that the game had just under a million subs, not 500K. It was a prediction. If they were making profit when the game had 500K subs then fair enough, but they also had the revenue from the cash shop too. If it was P2P and had 500K subs and no cash shop revenue then they would have been right.
So many factors you are not taking into consideration - you are just seeing things in black and white, not seeing the full picture.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
SWG died because of broken promises, shitty time sinks and players wanting a Star Wars game not a second life experience, and when SWG was alive there were more haters than lovers on that forum everyone seems to forget that and now looks back with Rose Colored glasses and say it was amazing.
Bioware succeeded in the game they wanted to make it's just not for everyone but apparently it's for more people than SWG ever was'
I don't have the link handy, but yes, they have confirmed that going forward they are focusing on the factional content, the class stories are over. (Unless of course they change their minds.)
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
But would it bring back paying players? Enough to be worth the expense?
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
I think it would bring back paying players. The question is, as you say, whether it would bring back enough of them for a long enough period of time to justify the cost. I think the answer to that question is almost certainly no. I think too many of the people who would find that content appealing enough to come back are already among the number who never left, and if that is the case, there just wouldn't be enough added revenue to justify the cost.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.
Bioware did not succeed in making the game they wanted, as the Doctors quit, and the vision they had for the game died with their departure. Now it just a nickel and diming cash cow, with no structure or focus.
SWTOR would have been so much better than it is now, if it did not tank.
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No when SWG launched 300k wasn't a big deal. SOE said they expected SWG to have 1 million subs. That's why they ended up doing the NGE and the CU
wait did you just say SWTOR didn't have much to do but SWG did? ROFL that is hillarious
SWG had next to nothing to do. Missions and quests? All there was were Mission terminals. Dugeons or Raids? Nope not for a long time after launch and even then they were pathetic and broken.
SWG failed because it was a horrible game.
SWTOR is succeeding because its a fun game.
Your argument would have more credibility if they weren't swimming in buckets of money.
Peace is a lie, there is only passion.
Through passion, I gain strength.
Through strength, I gain power.
Through power, I gain victory.
Through victory, my chains are broken.
The Force shall free me.